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From: owner-glencook-fans-digest@lists.xmission.com (glencook-fans-digest)
To: glencook-fans-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: glencook-fans-digest V1 #242
Reply-To: glencook-fans-digest
Sender: owner-glencook-fans-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-glencook-fans-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
glencook-fans-digest Wednesday, March 12 2003 Volume 01 : Number 242
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 10:51:40 -0600
From: "Primalchrome" <primalchrome@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Black Company
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C2E885.5CE1EE00
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have to agree (and have heard this observation a number of =
times)...the books of the South marked the beginning of a decline in the =
quality of the series. That's not to say I felt it was bad.... The =
books of the South were much better than most of the stuff out there =
today, but it barely held a candle to the first four books.
----- Original Message -----=20
From: patnellie@msn.com=20
To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Black Company
Lets see, Just off the top of my head...
Stirling : Draka series 12 and more coming
Webber: I have 8 Honor Harrington Books, more coming
Asprin, Lynn: listened to the fans and is pumping out more Thieves =
World.
McCaffery: Pern
Alan Dean Foster: Flinx 9 and more coming
There's more, but... to restate...
When an Author "ends" a series, it's a let down. There are many more =
tales to be told about the=20
Black Company and I'm sorry, the ending left lots and lots to be =
desired. IN MY OPINION. Seems that
lots of characters were killed without any fare thee wells and the =
story was choppy. again, IN MY OPINION.
The first books of the North were wonderful and alive, the last books =
of the south....well....
Pat
- ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C2E885.5CE1EE00
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY=20
style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-TOP: medium none; FONT: 10pt =
verdana; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"=20
bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I have to agree (and have heard this observation =
a number=20
of times)...the books of the South marked the beginning of a =
decline in the=20
quality of the series. That's not to say I felt it was =
bad.... =20
The books of the South were much better than most of the stuff out there =
today,=20
but it barely held a candle to the first four books.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dpatnellie@msn.com=20
href=3D"mailto:patnellie@msn.com">patnellie@msn.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dglencook-fans@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com">glencook-fans@lists.xmis=
sion.com</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 12, 2003 =
10:33=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: (glencook-fans) =
Black=20
Company</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Lets see, Just off the top of my head...</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Stirling : Draka series 12 and more coming</DIV>
<DIV>Webber: I have 8 Honor Harrington Books, more coming</DIV>
<DIV>Asprin, Lynn: listened to the fans and is pumping out more =
Thieves=20
World.</DIV>
<DIV>McCaffery: Pern</DIV>
<DIV>Alan Dean Foster: Flinx 9 and more coming</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>There's more, but... to restate...</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>When an Author "ends" a series, it's a let down. =
There=20
are many more tales to be told about the </DIV>
<DIV>Black Company and I'm sorry, the ending left lots and lots to be =
desired.=20
IN MY OPINION. Seems that</DIV>
<DIV>lots of characters were killed without any fare thee wells and =
the story=20
was choppy. again, IN MY OPINION.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The first books of the North were wonderful and alive, the last =
books of=20
the south....well....</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Pat</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C2E885.5CE1EE00--
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 10:53:34 -0600 (CST)
From: Changeling <chnglng@FreeQ.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Black Company
I don't think that ending a series is wrong. I've had this discussion as
pertains to other things several times with my friends. Babylon 5 is a
stronger series than Star Trek because it had a beginning, a middle and an
end. Star Trek just went on and on, trying to find new one-shot episodes
every week.
For anyone familiar with comic books there's the Sandman series by Neil
Gaiman. Arguably one of the best series out there, it also has a
beginning, a middle and an end. Compare it to, say, the X-Men. Has an X
book ever been given accolades for it's high quality?
My feeling is that when an author chooses to start putting out books just
to feed the public desire then the quality of the work diminishes. Instead
of caring about telling a well-crafted story the focus becomes pandering
to a broad audience. And as un-American as this sentiment is, I believe
that the majority is very rarely right. Especially when it comes to
entertainment.
Have you ever seen a sequel that matched the original?
- -Matthew
On Wed, 12 Mar 2003 patnellie@msn.com wrote:
> Lets see, Just off the top of my head...
>
> Stirling : Draka series 12 and more coming
> Webber: I have 8 Honor Harrington Books, more coming
> Asprin, Lynn: listened to the fans and is pumping out more Thieves World.
> McCaffery: Pern
> Alan Dean Foster: Flinx 9 and more coming
>
> There's more, but... to restate...
>
> When an Author "ends" a series, it's a let down. There are many more tales to be told about the
> Black Company and I'm sorry, the ending left lots and lots to be desired. IN MY OPINION. Seems that
> lots of characters were killed without any fare thee wells and the story was choppy. again, IN MY OPINION.
>
> The first books of the North were wonderful and alive, the last books of the south....well....
>
> Pat
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> Wrom: QWOYIYZUNN
> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 8:24 AM
> To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com
> Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Black Company
>
>
> 10 books isn't exactly leaving a fan base to wither. Frankly, I really
> respect the fact that Glen isn't caving in to pressure to continue writing
> about a group of people whose story has been told. He wrote the story he
> wanted to write. It had a beginning, a middle and ultimately an end.
> That's part of what makes it so good.
>
> -Matthew
>
>
> On Wed, 12 Mar 2003 patnellie@msn.com wrote:
>
> > Funny thing, I stumbled upon the Black Company and read it, hooked all my buddies on it and we loved it.
> > Dread Towers were a so-so read, but then Garrett grabbed me as a lighter side of Cook. As I also like Asprin (when he
> > gets off his butt and writes ), Spider Robinsons "Callahans" and other Lighter side readings, Garrett just stuck a good note.
> >
> > Military reading wise, Webber and Drake are great and is SM Stirling, but first grab off the shelf are Black Company.
> > I think that my favorite duo in all of my readings are Goblin and One-eye. The Abbot and Costello of Black Company.
> > If Cook ever wants to travel back in time and give us more of them, I'd buy it. I'd love to know more about the "lost"
> > origins of the Black Company and it movement north.
> >
> > *sigh* but I've read and re-read that he is done with the black company and it is a shame. To build a fan base and then
> > to leave it to wither.
> >
> > Pat
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > Wrom: ZOWCONEUQZ
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 10:21 PM
> > To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com
> > Subject: (glencook-fans) Black Company
> >
> > Pat,
> >
> > True. Anything about the Black Comapany is of paramount interest. Garrett, Dread Towers, and so on is interesting but not in the same group.
> >
> > Lee Childs
> >
> > =======================================================================
> > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
> > visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
> >
>
>
> **************************************************************************
> * *
> * "It is good to find that one is in agreement with the gods." *
> * "Howso?" *
> * "It shows that the gods are wise." *
> * *
> **************************************************************************
>
>
> =======================================================================
> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>
**************************************************************************
* *
* "It is good to find that one is in agreement with the gods." *
* "Howso?" *
* "It shows that the gods are wise." *
* *
**************************************************************************
=======================================================================
To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 13:24:48 -0600
From: Stacey Harris <harrissg@slu.edu>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) recommendation on Garrett books
Pat,
I still don't know which books you mean.
"I always call it the Dread Towers, it's the first set of books he wrote."
The Dread Empire books are the ones about a Chinese-like expansionist
empire with potent sorcerors as well as a highly disciplined and very
successful army. They are the last four or so in the eight books that
deal variously with the mysterious wizard Varthlokkur, the Norse
fighter/statesman Bragi, the wandering fighter/fool Mocker, and a sprawl
of miscellaneous kingdoms and smaller states fighting among themselves
before realizing the danger posed to all by the Dread Empire. But there
are no towers involved in any of this.
Steve
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 13:27:30 -0600
From: Stacey Harris <harrissg@slu.edu>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Black Company
Matthew,
"Frankly, I really
respect the fact that Glen isn't caving in to pressure to continue writing
about a group of people whose story has been told. He wrote the story he
wanted to write. It had a beginning, a middle and ultimately an end.
That's part of what makes it so good."
I tend to agree with your judgement on the artistic wholeness of the BC
books as existing. But Glen *has* agreed to do more BC books, carrying
on from _Soldiers Live_. He's just got other committments first, such
as a big fantasy trilogy.
Steve
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 14:55:12 -0500 (EST)
From: schew@interzone.com (Steve Chew)
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Black Company
>
>My feeling is that when an author chooses to start putting out books just
>to feed the public desire then the quality of the work diminishes. Instead
>of caring about telling a well-crafted story the focus becomes pandering
>to a broad audience. And as un-American as this sentiment is, I believe
>that the majority is very rarely right. Especially when it comes to
>entertainment.
>
While I love shows like Babylon 5 which have an ending, and I
like the conclusion that the BC books have come to so far, Glen Cook
has stated many times that he works for a living. If he can make money
by writing more Black Company books then he will. He's not writing
simply to feed the public desire, but also to feed his family. Despite
being a published author, he can't even find a buyer for his cop novel.
Anyway, how do you know that the next "ending" that he arrives
at won't be better than the current one? After all "The White Rose"
was a great ending to the first trilogy. I continue to look forward
to new BC (and other) Glen Cook books. If the BC series goes downhill
that would be a shame, but given his track record I trust Cook's
ability to continue telling a great story.
>Have you ever seen a sequel that matched the original?
>
Yes. Aliens, T2, The Empire Strikes Back, and more. As for
books, I enjoyed A Deepness in the Sky at least as much, probably more,
than A Fire Upon the Deep. I'm sure I could think of more given some
time.
Steve
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 13:56:27 -0600 (CST)
From: Changeling <chnglng@FreeQ.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Black Company
As the Simpsons would say....
Meh.
*sigh*
I mean, I'll buy them, of course. But I'm not enthusiastic about it.
- -Matthew
On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Stacey Harris wrote:
> Matthew,
>
> "Frankly, I really
> respect the fact that Glen isn't caving in to pressure to continue writing
> about a group of people whose story has been told. He wrote the story he
> wanted to write. It had a beginning, a middle and ultimately an end.
> That's part of what makes it so good."
>
> I tend to agree with your judgement on the artistic wholeness of the BC
> books as existing. But Glen *has* agreed to do more BC books, carrying
> on from _Soldiers Live_. He's just got other committments first, such
> as a big fantasy trilogy.
>
> Steve
>
> =======================================================================
> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>
**************************************************************************
* *
* "It is good to find that one is in agreement with the gods." *
* "Howso?" *
* "It shows that the gods are wise." *
* *
**************************************************************************
=======================================================================
To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 12:05:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Robo Tchas <robotchas@yahoo.com>
Subject: (glencook-fans) All Good Things...
Pat remarked:
When an Author "ends" a series, it's a let down.
There are many more tales to be told about the Black
Company and I'm sorry, the ending left lots and lots
to be desired.
I liked the ending of Soldiers Live, which I thought
was perfect for the central characters, but I did feel
that some of the secondary characters got short shrift
in that one, as if Cook was rushing to wrap everything
up instead of having to add another book ("And Wonder
Why"?) In particular there was an unseen battle which
produced a laundry list of casualties. Of course,
that's the way real life/war works too: a soldier
often doesn't get to see their comrades fall or even
find out how it happened. Thus the title...
OTOH, I draw a different conclusion: I'd rather an
author end a series and go out with a bang than drag
it on long after the life has gone out of it, just to
(a) keep feeding the fans and/or (b) keep raking in
the cash. That's why I respected Bill Watterson for
ending Calvin and Hobbes (even though it's one of my
favorite things) rather than let it go downhill. And,
like some others, I think Cook might have been better
off to have ended the Garrett series two or three
books back, but his publisher thinks they're cash
cows.
I liked the Books of the South, for various reasons,
but for me the real end of the Black Company was The
White Rose; everything else was just a bonus, a
possible future from that point. I don't need to see
everything that happens to all characters, it's nice
sometimes to let them wander in your own imagination,
like friends you've lost touch with.
I'm not just a Black Company fan, I am a GLEN COOK
fan, and I've liked easily 90% of his output, so I
hope he lives a long, healthy, happy life and
continues to write what he wants to write (and not out
of economic necessity). I'm very much looking forward
to (eventually?) reading his real-world fantasy
trilogy and his "Butcher's Apprentice" or whatever
it's called, if they'll just print them already.
(Side note number one: we have an author named Cook
and now an author named Butcher? Where's Baker?)
(Side note number two: please delete the old messages
before you reply! They pile up in the digests and make
it really tedious to find your comments. Thanks.)
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online
http://webhosting.yahoo.com
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 14:26:28 -0600 (CST)
From: Changeling <chnglng@FreeQ.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Black Company
> While I love shows like Babylon 5 which have an ending, and I
> like the conclusion that the BC books have come to so far, Glen Cook
> has stated many times that he works for a living. If he can make money
> by writing more Black Company books then he will. He's not writing
> simply to feed the public desire, but also to feed his family. Despite
> being a published author, he can't even find a buyer for his cop novel.
> Anyway, how do you know that the next "ending" that he arrives
> at won't be better than the current one? After all "The White Rose"
> was a great ending to the first trilogy. I continue to look forward
> to new BC (and other) Glen Cook books. If the BC series goes downhill
> that would be a shame, but given his track record I trust Cook's
> ability to continue telling a great story.
Oh, I expect great stories but my feeling is still that trying to force a
new story from old characters is difficult. And the characters suffer for
it.
> >Have you ever seen a sequel that matched the original?
> >
> Yes. Aliens
From suspense story to "Look at my enormous guns"? Not really equal...
>T2
Not as good as the original, just had a bigger budget.
> The Empire Strikes Back
Not a sequel...it just took three movies to tell the one story. (Although
if you want to argue that the Star Wars/Empire/Jedi sequel is superior to
the Phantom/Clone/??? prequel then I'll happily get behind you there)
> and more. As for
> books, I enjoyed A Deepness in the Sky at least as much, probably more,
> than A Fire Upon the Deep.
I'm not familiar with them.
Will you at least grant that for the number of sequels out there
relatively few of them measure up to the originals?
- -Matthew
**************************************************************************
* *
* "It is good to find that one is in agreement with the gods." *
* "Howso?" *
* "It shows that the gods are wise." *
* *
**************************************************************************
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visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 13:45:51 -0700
From: "Derrill 'Kisc' Guilbert" <ninjaspam2@insaneninjahero.com>
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) Black Company
Ending a series is fine.
I think the point is, we like the Black Company, as well as the universe
they live in, and believe there are a ton of stories that could be written
in this universe... with or without the characters we already know.
Me, I'd love to read a story about the Dominator (urm, that was his name,
right? Lady's more evil husband?) and his rise to power, and maybe the story
of the folks that originally took him down.
A story about one of those samurai people that joined up with the BC later
would be fun...
I'll stop there, but what I'm saying is, more could be done there with or
without those same characters. I for one would love more. If Glen merely
wants some time away from the universe, more power to him. I can certainly
understand becoming bored with something.
One of the things I love about Dennis McKiernan is that he writes a story,
and then something he makes passing reference to in that story generates a
future story about that whatever it was. Not the same characters (although
one could easily argue that all of his hobbits or whatever he calls them are
the same reincarnated characters), not the same century, not the same war,
whatever. A plundered dragon's hoarde contains a silver trumpet, which a
little boy gets as a toy... then he writes a story about the trumpet's past.
Anyway.
Kisc
PS the quote is: "Yes. It shows that the gods have some wisdom." I finally
finished that book moments before seeing your tagline ;) Which is a good
one.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com
> [mailto:owner-glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Changeling
> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 9:54 AM
> To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com
> Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Black Company
>
>
>
> I don't think that ending a series is wrong. I've had this discussion as
> pertains to other things several times with my friends. Babylon 5 is a
> stronger series than Star Trek because it had a beginning, a middle and an
> end. Star Trek just went on and on, trying to find new one-shot episodes
> every week.
> For anyone familiar with comic books there's the Sandman series by Neil
> Gaiman. Arguably one of the best series out there, it also has a
> beginning, a middle and an end. Compare it to, say, the X-Men. Has an X
> book ever been given accolades for it's high quality?
>
> My feeling is that when an author chooses to start putting out books just
> to feed the public desire then the quality of the work diminishes. Instead
> of caring about telling a well-crafted story the focus becomes pandering
> to a broad audience. And as un-American as this sentiment is, I believe
> that the majority is very rarely right. Especially when it comes to
> entertainment.
>
> Have you ever seen a sequel that matched the original?
>
> -Matthew
>
=======================================================================
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visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 14:54:20 -0600
From: "Horky, Roger" <rhorky@trinity.edu>
Subject: (glencook-fans) sequels and ramblings (medium length)
I would opine that Godfather 2 was just as good if not better than the =
Godfather.=20
Part of the appeal of a sequel is timing. Reading the messages on this =
board, I get the impression that a good many of you have only recently =
begun reading the BC series, and thus were able to read them all in one =
(long) sweep. A certain amount of fatigue would naturally set in, =
reducing your enjoyment after the fourth or fifth book.
However, I know that there are some on this board who read the first =
three when they first came out way back when, and whose only reaction to =
the end of White Rose was regret that there were no more books. Then, =
when the next titles came out, after such a long hiatus, there was a =
certain amount of excitement and anticipation, which even the best book =
may not live up to.
I do know that I have read a book in my youth, gotten very excited about =
it (so much so that I bought a copy for each of ten friends), then =
re-read it ten years later and wondered why I had been so carried away. =
But there are also books that I enjoyed back when and still re-read when =
there's nothing new available (such as Ron Miller's Bronwyn series, =
which I just re-read, and would recommend to anyone with an odd sense of =
humor. Take a look at the Timberwolf Press website =
http://www.timberwolfpress.com and check out the Encyclopedia =
Bronwyniana--if you like what they've got there, read the books, but I =
know they're not for everyone. Ironically, a fourth book is soon to =
released, after a ten year hiatus; it'll be interesting to see if the =
work matches the build-up).
I generally judge a book by its re-readabilty: if I'm willing to pick a =
book up after I've read it once, it's a good book. Some books are old =
friends that I've read countless times (Paula Volsky's Illusion, The =
Phantom Tollbooth, anything by Terry Pratchett); these, obviously, are =
Good Books, to me. I've re-read the first three books of the Black =
Company five or ten times; I've read the Silver Spike three or four =
times; I re-read most of the others only after a new one has come out, =
to refresh my memory of the story line. I agree with those who express =
disappointment in the later books in the BC series. I am resolved to go =
through the entire series once, now that it's (allegedly) done, but =
haven't forced myself to do it yet.
I think that one of the problems (as has been said before) was that some =
of the later books didn't seem to have a fully-identified beginning, =
middle, and end--i could not imagine making a movie of them (although =
now that LOTR has demonstrated that it's possible to sustain interst in =
an unresolvbed storyline over the courrse of a year)--there was too much =
story for one single volume, sadly. I agree also that too many stories =
were wrapped up precipitously (but it was better than Dread Empire, =
where so many characters just died random battle deaths--GC overused the =
gimmick so often that my brother-in-law remembers nothing else about the =
series).
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Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 16:03:44 -0500 (EST)
From: schew@interzone.com (Steve Chew)
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Black Company
Also wik Changeling:
>
>> While I love shows like Babylon 5 which have an ending, and I
>> like the conclusion that the BC books have come to so far, Glen Cook
>> has stated many times that he works for a living. If he can make money
>> by writing more Black Company books then he will. He's not writing
>> simply to feed the public desire, but also to feed his family. Despite
>> being a published author, he can't even find a buyer for his cop novel.
>> Anyway, how do you know that the next "ending" that he arrives
>> at won't be better than the current one? After all "The White Rose"
>> was a great ending to the first trilogy. I continue to look forward
>> to new BC (and other) Glen Cook books. If the BC series goes downhill
>> that would be a shame, but given his track record I trust Cook's
>> ability to continue telling a great story.
>
>Oh, I expect great stories but my feeling is still that trying to force a
>new story from old characters is difficult. And the characters suffer for
>it.
>
I agree. I generally prefer to read new stories rather than
sequels since they often can't live up to the original. But if the
sequels are great then I love being able to stay in the same world with
the characters I've come to know.
Telling a story which you envisioned, beginning, middle and end,
and stopping there seems to be the most effective way to go. But, I
think that an author who is skilled enough can come up with new stories
with beginnings, middles and ends, which are just as good. Let's hope
that Cook can do it.
At any rate, I respect Cook's decision to continue writing
BC books in order to make money. Someone else mentioned that they
appreciate authors, like Bill Watterson, who don't "rake in the cash"
by writing sequels that rapidly decline in quality. I don't think that
applies to Cook, in the BC case, in a couple of ways. First, he's not
raking in the cash by any means (certainly not like Watterson) and second
so far he has maintained a pretty high quality in the BC series --
I trust him to continue to do so in the future.
>> >Have you ever seen a sequel that matched the original?
>> >
>> Yes. Aliens
>
>From suspense story to "Look at my enormous guns"? Not really equal...
>
OK, I guess it's a matter of taste. ;-) From a suspense story
to a rollercoaster ride that has almost no equal, imho. Both are great.
>Not a sequel...it just took three movies to tell the one story. (Although
>if you want to argue that the Star Wars/Empire/Jedi sequel is superior to
>the Phantom/Clone/??? prequel then I'll happily get behind you there)
>
>> and more. As for
>> books, I enjoyed A Deepness in the Sky at least as much, probably more,
>> than A Fire Upon the Deep.
>
>I'm not familiar with them.
>
You should read them if you like science fiction (they're not
hard sci-fi though). Vinge is one of my favorite authors. He writes
compelling characters and places them in epic stories. The two books
are pretty independent really, though you'll have a few insights into
what's going on in Deepness if you read Fire first. Deepness does an
especially good job at world building, society building and character
building. I loved it.
>Will you at least grant that for the number of sequels out there
>relatively few of them measure up to the originals?
>
Yes, I'll grant you that. :-) I was just reacting to your
generalization and the irony that we were already discussing sequels
(the books of the south).
Steve
P.S. The Black Company was expanded from a short story "Raker." Personally
I'm glad he wrote the "sequels"... ;-)
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Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 22:17:47 +0000
From: "Padraig Rourke" <pprourke@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) recommendation on Garrett books
I'm new to this list - I joined because I've always liked the BC series. I
tried Garrett, but it just didn't work for me. Does Glen have any other
series which have the same gritty feel as the BC books?
Re what Robo Tchas said:
>I'd rather an author end a series and go out with a bang than drag it
>on long after the life has gone out of it, just to
>(a) keep feeding the fans and/or
>(b) keep raking in the cash.
That's true of a lot of writers, and you hear also stories of writers under
pressure from their publishers to continue a series long past its use-by
date. But one of the things I found great about the Books of the South was
the way in which they started to get a direction of their own, especially
when Glen introduced new narrators - Murgen especially.
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Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 17:33:37 -0600
From: "Lawrence Jenab" <ljenab@sunflower.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) recommendation on Garrett books
If by "grit" you mean moral ambiguity of the characters, try "Tower of
Fear."
Larry
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Padraig Rourke" <pprourke@hotmail.com>
To: <glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) recommendation on Garrett books
> I'm new to this list - I joined because I've always liked the BC series.
I
> tried Garrett, but it just didn't work for me. Does Glen have any other
> series which have the same gritty feel as the BC books?
>
> Re what Robo Tchas said:
>
> >I'd rather an author end a series and go out with a bang than drag it
> >on long after the life has gone out of it, just to
> >(a) keep feeding the fans and/or
> >(b) keep raking in the cash.
>
> That's true of a lot of writers, and you hear also stories of writers
under
> pressure from their publishers to continue a series long past its use-by
> date. But one of the things I found great about the Books of the South was
> the way in which they started to get a direction of their own, especially
> when Glen introduced new narrators - Murgen especially.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
>
>
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>
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Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:37:55 -0800
From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) recommendation on Garrett books
I just got done reading tower of fear. Azel had grit for sure. I really
liked the book and it was perfect as a one off book.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Jenab" <ljenab@sunflower.com>
To: <glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 3:33 PM
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) recommendation on Garrett books
> If by "grit" you mean moral ambiguity of the characters, try "Tower of
> Fear."
>
> Larry
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Padraig Rourke" <pprourke@hotmail.com>
> To: <glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 4:17 PM
> Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) recommendation on Garrett books
>
>
> > I'm new to this list - I joined because I've always liked the BC
series.
> I
> > tried Garrett, but it just didn't work for me. Does Glen have any other
> > series which have the same gritty feel as the BC books?
> >
> > Re what Robo Tchas said:
> >
> > >I'd rather an author end a series and go out with a bang than drag it
> > >on long after the life has gone out of it, just to
> > >(a) keep feeding the fans and/or
> > >(b) keep raking in the cash.
> >
> > That's true of a lot of writers, and you hear also stories of writers
> under
> > pressure from their publishers to continue a series long past its use-by
> > date. But one of the things I found great about the Books of the South
was
> > the way in which they started to get a direction of their own,
especially
> > when Glen introduced new narrators - Murgen especially.
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
> > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
> >
> >
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> > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
> > visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
> >
>
>
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Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 17:41:08 -0600
From: "Lawrence Jenab" <ljenab@sunflower.com>
Subject: (glencook-fans) Darkwar Trilogy
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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There's been a bit of action on the list, and I'm suddenly moved to ask =
whether anybody else liked this trilogy as much as I did. For some =
reason, I keep thinking about it at odd moments. It's clearly not on =
par with the BC novels (IMO), but something about it was really =
engaging. =20
VERY SLIGHT POSSIBLITY THAT THE FOLLOWOING CONTAINS A SPOILER.
It reminds me, in a bizarre way, at least in the later books, of some of =
the old space operas; e.g., Doc Smith's "Lensman" books. It had that =
absolutely wide-open sense of possibility, of being unconstrained (in an =
almost naive way, though I'm not trying to say that the books are naive) =
as to where the plot would end up. It's certainly unconstrained by =
either (a) the laws of physics or (b) traditional fantasy/sci-fi plot =
rules.
Has anyone else read them recently? They are memorable, if for nothing =
else, for some of the most appalling covers ever to insult a Glen Cook =
novel.
Larry
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier New">There's been =
a bit</FONT>=20
<FONT face=3D"Courier New">of action on the list, and I'm suddenly moved =
to ask=20
whether anybody else liked this trilogy as much as I did. For some =
reason,=20
I keep thinking about it at odd moments. It's clearly not =
on par with=20
the BC novels (IMO), but something about it was really engaging. =20
</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New"></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier New">VERY SLIGHT =
POSSIBLITY=20
THAT THE FOLLOWOING CONTAINS A SPOILER.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New"></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New"></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New"></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier New">It reminds =
me, in a=20
bizarre way, at least in the later books, of some of the old space =
operas; e.g.,=20
Doc Smith's "Lensman" books. It had that absolutely wide-open =
sense of=20
possibility, of being unconstrained (in an almost naive way, though I'm =
not=20
trying to say that the books are naive) as to where the plot would end =
up. =20
It's certainly unconstrained by either (a) the laws of physics or (b)=20
traditional fantasy/sci-fi plot rules.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Has anyone else read them =
recently? =20
They are memorable, if for nothing else, for some of the most appalling =
covers=20
ever to insult a Glen Cook novel.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Larry</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
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