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glencook-fans-digest      Monday, March 10 2003      Volume 01 : Number 239




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 11:34:59 -0000
From: "Alan Rimes" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) recommendation on Garrett books

The Garrett novels are written as tand alone but they do build into a bigger
picture of Tunfaire. I would advise that you try and read them in order as
some of the smaller subplots do continue from book to book.

The only two Garrett books I didn't enjoy were Petty Pewter Gods and Angry
Lead Skies.

On another note I've just started reading the Harry Dresden series by Jim
Butcher. I only picked the first one up because Glen Cook did a cover
recommendation. I'm really enjoying them novels as they have a touch of
humour and wise cracking just like you get with Garrett.
Anyone else seen these books?

Alan
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Hunt" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 9:49 AM
Subject: (glencook-fans) recommendation on Garrett books


> While waiting (perhaps in vain, but who knows) for Glen to decide to
> write another Black Company novel, I thought I'd give his Garrett series
> a try.  Should this series be read in order or can I just pick one up
> and read it stand alone?  If I were to read just one, any
> recommendations as to which one?
>
> Thanks for any suggestions.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
> =======================================================================
>  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
>  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 13:40:57 -0400
From: Richard Chilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) recommendation on Garrett books

In order works best - he re-uses characters and talks about old plots.
It also helps to track who all the love starved women are if you meet
them one at a time (he generally picks up a new girl each book, and if
she survives the book she generally shows up later).

Plus there are some multibook plot lines, things slowly building over
the series, that can be ruined if you read them out of order.

Of course, these are just my views and I read the books in order (as
they were published) so others who read them out of order may feel
differently.

Richard

Jim Hunt wrote:
>
> While waiting (perhaps in vain, but who knows) for Glen to decide to
> write another Black Company novel, I thought I'd give his Garrett series
> a try.  Should this series be read in order or can I just pick one up
> and read it stand alone?  If I were to read just one, any
> recommendations as to which one?
>
> Thanks for any suggestions.
>
> Jim
>
> =======================================================================
>  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
>  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 13:59:30 -0400
From: Richard Chilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) recommendation on Garrett books

Note:  I've added a minor BC Spoiler - if you haven't read the second
book of the south you may not want to read this.

Alan Rimes wrote:
>
> On another note I've just started reading the Harry Dresden series by Jim
> Butcher. I only picked the first one up because Glen Cook did a cover
> recommendation. I'm really enjoying them novels as they have a touch of
> humour and wise cracking just like you get with Garrett.
> Anyone else seen these books?
>

I have.  The four books are interesting.  One of the interesting things
about the series is the lack of power growth.  Where Garrett has gone
from 'private dick working out of his appartment' to 'guy who gets
invited to important parties' Dresden tends to stay the same.  His
character grows and changes, but there's not a huge improvement in his
powers or social standing.  The series starts with him barely getting by
in the real world while being either loved or hated by other wizards,
and by book four little has changed.  He's made a few new friends, a few
new enemies, and some of the one liners thrown away in book one (e.g.
having a fairy godmother) get fleshed out to major plots, but Desden's
life style and powers don't really improve.

At end of some of the books you can't really say he 'won' - the victory
came at too high a price, which is an interesting way to avoid power
creep and pulls you into the next book almost as much as when Lady ended
a book vowing that the stranglers were walking dead men for stealing her
daughter.  The lose ends addressed in later books make this a series
that is best read in order as reading them other of other will leave you
wondering when in this book character X dies.

Richard

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 To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 12:10:55 -0800
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) recommendation on Garrett books

- ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C2E634.F0121540
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Agreed, in order. The flavor and story lines build better that way.
I, unlike most others, haven't met a black company or garrett that
I didn't like, own, and have read at least 3 times.

Pat



- ----- Original Message -----
Wrom: CXLYRWTQTIPWIGY
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 9:41 AM
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) recommendation on Garrett books

In order works best - he re-uses characters and talks about old plots.
It also helps to track who all the love starved women are if you meet
them one at a time (he generally picks up a new girl each book, and if
she survives the book she generally shows up later).

Plus there are some multibook plot lines, things slowly building over
the series, that can be ruined if you read them out of order.

Of course, these are just my views and I read the books in order (as
they were published) so others who read them out of order may feel
differently.

Richard

Jim Hunt wrote:
>
> While waiting (perhaps in vain, but who knows) for Glen to decide to
> write another Black Company novel, I thought I'd give his Garrett series
> a try.  Should this series be read in order or can I just pick one up
> and read it stand alone?  If I were to read just one, any
> recommendations as to which one?
>
> Thanks for any suggestions.
>
> Jim
>
> =======================================================================
>  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
>  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.

=======================================================================
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- ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C2E634.F0121540
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><BODY STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>Agreed, in ord=
er. The flavor and story lines build better that way.</DIV> <DIV>I, =
unlike most others, haven't met a black company or garrett that</DIV=
> <DIV>I didn't like, own, and have read at least 3 times.</DIV=
> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pat</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <D=
IV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5p=
x; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> =
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV> <DIV s=
tyle=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt Arial; COLOR: black"><B>From:</B>=
 Richard Chilton</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunda=
y, March 09, 2003 9:41 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>To:</B=
> [e-mail]</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial">=
<B>Subject:</B> Re: (glencook-fans) recommendation on Garrett books</DIV>=
 <DIV> </DIV>In order works best - he re-uses characters and talks a=
bout old plots. <BR>It also helps to track who all the love starved women=
 are if you meet<BR>them one at a time (he generally picks up a new girl =
each book, and if<BR>she survives the book she generally shows up later).=
<BR><BR>Plus there are some multibook plot lines, things slowly building =
over<BR>the series, that can be ruined if you read them out of order.<BR>=
<BR>Of course, these are just my views and I read the books in order (as<=
BR>they were published) so others who read them out of order may feel<BR>=
differently.<BR><BR>Richard<BR><BR>Jim Hunt wrote:<BR>> <BR>> While=
 waiting (perhaps in vain, but who knows) for Glen to decide to<BR>> w=
rite another Black Company novel, I thought I'd give his Garrett series<B=
R>> a try.  Should this series be read in order or can I just pic=
k one up<BR>> and read it stand alone?  If I were to read just on=
e, any<BR>> recommendations as to which one?<BR>> <BR>> Thanks f=
or any suggestions.<BR>> <BR>> Jim<BR>> <BR>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR>>  To unsubsc=
ribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,<BR>>  visit=
 <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.<BR><BR>=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR>To unsubscri=
be, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,<BR>visit <http://w=
ww.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></H=
TML>

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 20:30:26 -0700
From: "Derrill 'Kisc' Guilbert" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) recommendation on Garrett books

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Richard
> Chilton
> I have.  The four books are interesting.  One of the interesting things
> about the series is the lack of power growth.  Where Garrett has gone
> from 'private dick working out of his appartment' to 'guy who gets
> invited to important parties' Dresden tends to stay the same.  His
> character grows and changes, but there's not a huge improvement in his
> powers or social standing.  The series starts with him barely getting by
> in the real world while being either loved or hated by other wizards,
> and by book four little has changed.  He's made a few new friends, a few
> new enemies, and some of the one liners thrown away in book one (e.g.
> having a fairy godmother) get fleshed out to major plots, but Desden's
> life style and powers don't really improve.
>
> At end of some of the books you can't really say he 'won' - the victory
> came at too high a price, which is an interesting way to avoid power
> creep and pulls you into the next book almost as much as when Lady ended
> a book vowing that the stranglers were walking dead men for stealing her
> daughter.  The lose ends addressed in later books make this a series
> that is best read in order as reading them other of other will leave you
> wondering when in this book character X dies.
>
> Richard


That almost sounds like sitcom style plot resolution: by the end of the
show, everything must be exactly the same as it was at the beginning of the
show.

Me no likee.

Kisc


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 20:12:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Dennis Knaggs <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) recommendation on Garrett books

While I agree that reading them in order would
probably be best, I found it to be rather difficult.
Many of the earlier ones are out of print and can be
difficult to find.  I picked up most of them from used
book stores or over the net but it took some time.  I
would try to start with something previous to the most
recent two or three novels because they do become more
and more dependent.

Dennis
- --- [e-mail] wrote:
> Agreed, in order. The flavor and story lines build
> better that way.
> I, unlike most others, haven't met a black company
> or garrett that
> I didn't like, own, and have read at least 3 times.
>
> Pat
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> Wrom: CXLYRWTQTIPWIGY
> Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 9:41 AM
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) recommendation on
> Garrett books
>
> In order works best - he re-uses characters and
> talks about old plots.
> It also helps to track who all the love starved
> women are if you meet
> them one at a time (he generally picks up a new girl
> each book, and if
> she survives the book she generally shows up later).
>
> Plus there are some multibook plot lines, things
> slowly building over
> the series, that can be ruined if you read them out
> of order.
>
> Of course, these are just my views and I read the
> books in order (as
> they were published) so others who read them out of
> order may feel
> differently.
>
> Richard
>
> Jim Hunt wrote:
> >
> > While waiting (perhaps in vain, but who knows) for
> Glen to decide to
> > write another Black Company novel, I thought I'd
> give his Garrett series
> > a try.  Should this series be read in order or can
> I just pick one up
> > and read it stand alone?  If I were to read just
> one, any
> > recommendations as to which one?
> >
> > Thanks for any suggestions.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
>
=======================================================================
> >  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives
> of this list,
> >  visit
> <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>
>
=======================================================================
> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of
> this list,
> visit
<http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 00:44:27 -0400
From: Richard Chilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) recommendation on Garrett books - series and power  creep

Note - there's something that can be considered a Garrett spoiler here.
Maybe a BC one as well, but only in terms of overview.

Derrill 'Kisc' Guilbert wrote:
>
> That almost sounds like sitcom style plot resolution: by the end of the
> show, everything must be exactly the same as it was at the beginning of the
> show.
>

I'm sorry if I portrayed it that way.  It isn't like the Simpson's "the
episode ended and we forget everything now" but while there are changes
there's no steady build of power.

Dresden's character changes as does the setting.  The Dresden from book
one is a far different Dresden in book two and his relationships with
the various characters have changed.  For example, at the start of book
one he's the trusted (by the officer in charge) advisor to the police
department's "weird stuff" squad.  Because of events in that book by the
start of book two the officer in charge isn't sure if she can trust him
as far as she can throw him, but still needs his expertise to solve
crimes.

Garrett goes from a bit above "Do I eat today or pay the rent?" to "So
this is what the weathy do" over the course of the series.  Each time he
solves a case he gets better off financially, and there have been a lot
of books.

Anita Blake (another supernatural detective type) goes from being a
'normal' supernatural to more powerful than any and everything in her
world.  I haven't read the most recent one, but in each book she meets
and destroys a bigger threat and is shown to be more powerful magically
(and the series goes further and further away from what a teenager
should be reading).

Dresden, well, he changes.  In one of the books he struggles to say "I
love you" to the woman he loves (something he was avoiding for at least
a book) and things turn out very bad for him.  By the end of each book
he has more contacts, maybe a few more enemies, a bit more insight, but
he's still struggling to pay his rent and his power (higher at the start
than many characters in these series begin with) doesn't see any real
jumps.

Escalation of thread and reward is something all series face - the
challenges get bigger and the rewards worth it most as the series arcs
going from the lessor problems at the beginning to the major ones at the
end.

Look at the Black Company:
Book 1 - a merc company who gets tangled up in a sorcerer's war - facing
the council of 18.
Book 2 - The crack company of the Empire - facing the Dominator and open
treachery from the Taken.  They lose some of the extras but the main
characters continue to grow.
Book 3 - They are the Rebellon taking on the Empire (including Lady and
the new Taken) and the Dominator, and they have some True Names on their
side.

The original series arc ends with a great climax - they defeat the evil
at great cost and will now do their duty and take the annals home
(wherever home is).  I'm not sure how good the last book would have been
if you hadn't read the previous two - but the series is well balanced.

Book of the South 1: A ragtag group slowly becomes a company as it works
its way towards evil wizards including former Taken.
Book of the South 2: The army fights more powerful wizards, former Taken
(including Soul Catcher), treachery, and the growing force of a goddess.

Book 3 - the climax - forced to become another series.

The Glittering Stone books:
They build power to the point where they are running everything beating
up the bad guys until all the leaders get trapped on the plane of
glittering stones.
Then a power reset - the Black Company struggling once more as it tries
to rescue the leadership.
Leadership rescued - raises a vast army (including someone who might
have the potential to be the next Dominator) and the Black Company takes
on wizards in two worlds.
The climax?  Croaker has what he's always wanted and Lady is mostly
happy again.

Take Garrett:
Just a person being a detective, in fear of the mob and barely getting
by.  Book by book he makes more powerful and powerful friends until he's
almost untouchable, gaining wealth as he goes along.  The way the series
is arcing only a massive setting change (non human revolt?  former
soldiers revolting?) will destroy the rewards he fought so far for in
each book.

For laughs, take the Myth Adventure series (which is starting again
after Aspin left people in the lurch like Cook did with the books of the
south) - Skeeve goes from half trained apprentice to guy who controls
the fate of the Kingdom with super friends helping him out.  Each book
(and there were several of them) challanges him and when he wins he
claims a bigger reward.

Any series that goes on has power creep as the success gain in each book
builds on itself - the challanges have to get bigger and the rewards
increase.  So far the Dresden series has avoided it for the most part.
It's a good series - one that starts with a story that Cook wishes he'd
written and similar to the Garrett books (which is how it was mentioned
on this list).  Can it maintain the current power level as it continues
without losing story arc?  Maybe, maybe not, but I'll probably keep
reading it.

Richard

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 23:39:50 -0800
From: Jim Hunt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) recommendation on Garrett books

Thanks for the recommendations. I'll have to see which of the earlier
books I can find.
My local used book store didn't have much. Does Glen still run that
service where he
sells books directly?

Jim

Dennis Knaggs wrote:

>While I agree that reading them in order would
>probably be best, I found it to be rather difficult.
>Many of the earlier ones are out of print and can be
>difficult to find.  I picked up most of them from used
>book stores or over the net but it took some time.  I
>would try to start with something previous to the most
>recent two or three novels because they do become more
>and more dependent.
>
>Dennis
>--- [e-mail] wrote:
>
>
>>Agreed, in order. The flavor and story lines build
>>better that way.
>>I, unlike most others, haven't met a black company
>>or garrett that
>>I didn't like, own, and have read at least 3 times.
>>
>>Pat
>>
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>Wrom: CXLYRWTQTIPWIGY
>>Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 9:41 AM
>>To: [e-mail]
>>Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) recommendation on
>>Garrett books
>>
>>In order works best - he re-uses characters and
>>talks about old plots.
>>It also helps to track who all the love starved
>>women are if you meet
>>them one at a time (he generally picks up a new girl
>>each book, and if
>>she survives the book she generally shows up later).
>>
>>Plus there are some multibook plot lines, things
>>slowly building over
>>the series, that can be ruined if you read them out
>>of order.
>>
>>Of course, these are just my views and I read the
>>books in order (as
>>they were published) so others who read them out of
>>order may feel
>>differently.
>>
>>Richard
>>
>>Jim Hunt wrote:
>>
>>
>>>While waiting (perhaps in vain, but who knows) for
>>>
>>>
>>Glen to decide to
>>
>>
>>>write another Black Company novel, I thought I'd
>>>
>>>
>>give his Garrett series
>>
>>
>>>a try.  Should this series be read in order or can
>>>
>>>
>>I just pick one up
>>
>>
>>>and read it stand alone?  If I were to read just
>>>
>>>
>>one, any
>>
>>
>>>recommendations as to which one?
>>>
>>>Thanks for any suggestions.
>>>
>>>Jim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>=======================================================================
>
>
>>> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives
>>>
>>>
>>of this list,
>>
>>
>>> visit
>>>
>>>
>><http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>=======================================================================
>
>
>>To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of
>>this list,
>>visit
>>
>>
><http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>
>
>__________________________________________________
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>Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
>http://taxes.yahoo.com/
>
>=======================================================================
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> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>
>.
>
>
>



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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 06:50:29 -0600
From: "Lawrence Jenab" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) recommendation on Garrett books

Jim, you can get all the Garrett books from abebooks.com, eBay.com, or a
combination of both.  It took me less than a week to collect the whole
series last year when I got interested.  You should have no problem.  Happy
reading!

Larry

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Hunt" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 1:39 AM
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) recommendation on Garrett books


> Thanks for the recommendations. I'll have to see which of the earlier
> books I can find.
> My local used book store didn't have much. Does Glen still run that
> service where he
> sells books directly?
>
> Jim
>
> Dennis Knaggs wrote:
>
> >While I agree that reading them in order would
> >probably be best, I found it to be rather difficult.
> >Many of the earlier ones are out of print and can be
> >difficult to find.  I picked up most of them from used
> >book stores or over the net but it took some time.  I
> >would try to start with something previous to the most
> >recent two or three novels because they do become more
> >and more dependent.
> >
> >Dennis
> >--- [e-mail] wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Agreed, in order. The flavor and story lines build
> >>better that way.
> >>I, unlike most others, haven't met a black company
> >>or garrett that
> >>I didn't like, own, and have read at least 3 times.
> >>
> >>Pat
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>Wrom: CXLYRWTQTIPWIGY
> >>Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 9:41 AM
> >>To: [e-mail]
> >>Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) recommendation on
> >>Garrett books
> >>
> >>In order works best - he re-uses characters and
> >>talks about old plots.
> >>It also helps to track who all the love starved
> >>women are if you meet
> >>them one at a time (he generally picks up a new girl
> >>each book, and if
> >>she survives the book she generally shows up later).
> >>
> >>Plus there are some multibook plot lines, things
> >>slowly building over
> >>the series, that can be ruined if you read them out
> >>of order.
> >>
> >>Of course, these are just my views and I read the
> >>books in order (as
> >>they were published) so others who read them out of
> >>order may feel
> >>differently.
> >>
> >>Richard
> >>
> >>Jim Hunt wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>While waiting (perhaps in vain, but who knows) for
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Glen to decide to
> >>
> >>
> >>>write another Black Company novel, I thought I'd
> >>>
> >>>
> >>give his Garrett series
> >>
> >>
> >>>a try.  Should this series be read in order or can
> >>>
> >>>
> >>I just pick one up
> >>
> >>
> >>>and read it stand alone?  If I were to read just
> >>>
> >>>
> >>one, any
> >>
> >>
> >>>recommendations as to which one?
> >>>
> >>>Thanks for any suggestions.
> >>>
> >>>Jim
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >=======================================================================
> >
> >
> >>> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives
> >>>
> >>>
> >>of this list,
> >>
> >>
> >>> visit
> >>>
> >>>
> >><http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >=======================================================================
> >
> >
> >>To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of
> >>this list,
> >>visit
> >>
> >>
> ><http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
> >
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
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> >
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> > visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
> >
> >.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
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>  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>


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