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glencook-fans-digest    Thursday, December 5 2002    Volume 01 : Number 231




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 18:52:48 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail] (Steve Chew)
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Nero Wolfe and Garrett

>
>I just discovered Rex Stout's Nero Wolfe books, which appear to have =
>been one of Glen's inspirations for the Garrett books.  Has there been a =
>thread about this already? =20
>
>For those who don't know, the Wolfe books involve a brilliant, =
>reclusive, obese detective (i.e., sort of like the dead man) who never =
>leaves his house and his leg-man, Archie Goodwin, who does all the =
>adventuring, then reports to Wolfe, who provides a nearly supernatural =
>intellectual perspective.
>
>Like I said, I assume this has come up before.  If it has, a tip as to =
>the date of the thread would be much appreciated.
>

    It has come up a couple times.  I mentioned it on April 28th.  But,
I don't remember any long threads about it.  I agree that there are some
strong parallels.  Perhaps next time someone talks to Cook they could ask
him about whether he was influenced by Nero Wolfe (or has someone done
that already?)

                Steve


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 23:38:47 -0600
From: "Joe G Kushner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (glencook-fans) I am alone?

I read the first few books of the Black Company with much enthusism and
I'm now just finished Bleak Seasons and all I can saw is "blah."  It
didn't grab me at all.  It felt like I was rereading Dreams of Steel
from another perspective.  I don't like it when Michael Moorcock does it
excessively like some of his Eternal Champion series and I certainly
didn't like it here.  The books also seem much longer in the latter part
of the series.  I'm just getting ready to read She is the Darkness.  Any
words of warning?



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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 23:52:28 -0600
From: "Jordan Raney" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) I am alone?

I had the same impression.  If it relieves your worry at all, I found Water
Sleeps and (especially) Soldiers Live to feel more like the earlier books
and I enjoyed them much more than shadow games through she is the darkness.



- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail]
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Joe G
Kushner
Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 11:39 PM
To: [e-mail]
Subject: (glencook-fans) I am alone?


I read the first few books of the Black Company with much enthusism and
I'm now just finished Bleak Seasons and all I can saw is "blah."  It
didn't grab me at all.  It felt like I was rereading Dreams of Steel
from another perspective.  I don't like it when Michael Moorcock does it
excessively like some of his Eternal Champion series and I certainly
didn't like it here.  The books also seem much longer in the latter part
of the series.  I'm just getting ready to read She is the Darkness.  Any
words of warning?



=======================================================================
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 18:19:41 +1000
From: Graham Allen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) I am alone?

Hi Joe,

Don't worry, those were easily the worst two books of the series.  It's all
uphill from here.

Kind regards,
Graham

At 11:38  2/12/02 -0600, you wrote:
>I read the first few books of the Black Company with much enthusism and
>I'm now just finished Bleak Seasons and all I can saw is "blah."  It
>didn't grab me at all.  It felt like I was rereading Dreams of Steel
>from another perspective.  I don't like it when Michael Moorcock does it
>excessively like some of his Eternal Champion series and I certainly
>didn't like it here.  The books also seem much longer in the latter part
>of the series.  I'm just getting ready to read She is the Darkness.  Any
>words of warning?
>
>=======================================================================
>  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
>  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 05:02:08 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail] (Steve Chew)
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) I am alone?

>At 11:38  2/12/02 -0600, you wrote:
>>I read the first few books of the Black Company with much enthusism and
>>I'm now just finished Bleak Seasons and all I can saw is "blah."  It
>>didn't grab me at all.  It felt like I was rereading Dreams of Steel
>>from another perspective.  I don't like it when Michael Moorcock does it
>>excessively like some of his Eternal Champion series and I certainly
>>didn't like it here.  The books also seem much longer in the latter part
>>of the series.  I'm just getting ready to read She is the Darkness.  Any
>>words of warning?
>>
Graham wrote:
>Hi Joe,
>Don't worry, those were easily the worst two books of the series.  It's all
>uphill from here.
>

Joe,
    You're not alone.  I struggled with Bleak Seasons.  I think that
the BC series foundered a bit starting with Bleak Seasons.  It takes some
time to find its footing again, including some of She is the Darkness,
but it's worth the effort.

                Steve


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:23:18 +0000 (GMT)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Fraser=20Ronald?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) I am alone?

 --- Joe G Kushner <[e-mail]> wrote: > I
read the first few books of the Black Company with
> much enthusism and
> I'm now just finished Bleak Seasons and all I can
> saw is "blah."  It
> didn't grab me at all.  It felt like I was rereading
> Dreams of Steel
> from another perspective.  I don't like it when
> Michael Moorcock does it
> excessively like some of his Eternal Champion series
> and I certainly
> didn't like it here.  The books also seem much
> longer in the latter part
> of the series.  I'm just getting ready to read She
> is the Darkness.  Any
> words of warning?

I also struggled through 'Bleak Seasons', and I was
severely pissed because I had waited something like 3
years for it (it's so long ago, it's hard to
remember). I was much happier with 'She is the
Darkness' (there is a review from my e-zine here:

http://www.atfantasy.com/swords_edge/SheIsTheDarknessReview.php
)

Of course, as others have pointed out, things just
keep getting better. And Mr. Cook has signed a
contract for another fantasy trilogy. Will it be the
Black Company? We can only hope.

=====
Fraser Ronald
"Sword's Edge" (http://www.swordsedge.net/)
AtFantasy Alliance Fiction Archive (http://www.atfantasy.com/fiction)

__________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 08:58:38 -0700
From: "Derrill \"Kisc\" Guilbert" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) I am alone?

Myself, I didn't have so much problems with any of the Black Company books.






[mild, undetailed spoiler]
While I'll admit to being a touch frustrated with the omniscient floating
guys as a plot device, I still enjoyed all of the books.
[/spoiler]





Hasn't someone said that Mr. Cook is getting bored with the Black Company? I
have a sneaking suspicsion that Mr. Cook was trying something similar to
what Mr. Aspirin tried with the Myth Inc Link books in his Myth series ...
he was trying to change the way he told the story to see if it got him back
into the story.

I don't know that is true, of course, but it seemed like such a departure
that it gave me cause to wonder.

Derrill

|-----Original Message-----
|From: [e-mail]
|[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Fraser
|Ronald
|Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 7:23 AM
|To: [e-mail]
|Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) I am alone?
|
|
| --- Joe G Kushner <[e-mail]> wrote: > I
|read the first few books of the Black Company with
|> much enthusism and
|> I'm now just finished Bleak Seasons and all I can
|> saw is "blah."  It
|> didn't grab me at all.  It felt like I was rereading
|> Dreams of Steel
|> from another perspective.  I don't like it when
|> Michael Moorcock does it
|> excessively like some of his Eternal Champion series
|> and I certainly
|> didn't like it here.  The books also seem much
|> longer in the latter part
|> of the series.  I'm just getting ready to read She
|> is the Darkness.  Any
|> words of warning?
|
|I also struggled through 'Bleak Seasons', and I was
|severely pissed because I had waited something like 3
|years for it (it's so long ago, it's hard to
|remember). I was much happier with 'She is the
|Darkness' (there is a review from my e-zine here:
|
|http://www.atfantasy.com/swords_edge/SheIsTheDarknessReview.php
|)
|
|Of course, as others have pointed out, things just
|keep getting better. And Mr. Cook has signed a
|contract for another fantasy trilogy. Will it be the
|Black Company? We can only hope.
|
|=====
|Fraser Ronald
|"Sword's Edge" (http://www.swordsedge.net/)
|AtFantasy Alliance Fiction Archive (http://www.atfantasy.com/fiction)
|
|__________________________________________________
|Do You Yahoo!?
|Everything you'll ever need on one web page
|from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
|http://uk.my.yahoo.com
|
|=======================================================================
| To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
| visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
|


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:07:11 -0600
From: "don" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) I am alone?

You know what I really wonder about? I have heard said that GC had Bleak
Seasons near completed, and the plot line had taken a different direction
than that of the one published, when he chunked it and started over. It then
became a trilogy which then became even longer. I wonder what that other
plot line was and if we would have liked it better.
    Personally, after Dreams of Steel, the series got unnecessarily complex,
mainly due to the prospective change, and I found it difficult to care about
most of the characters. The ones I did find interesting, GC didn't give much
information about (Uncle Doj and Nyueng Bao). Does anyone know what that
plot line would have been?

Don
"In time, what's deserved always gets served"- COC


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Derrill "Kisc" Guilbert" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 9:58 AM
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) I am alone?


> Myself, I didn't have so much problems with any of the Black Company
books.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [mild, undetailed spoiler]
> While I'll admit to being a touch frustrated with the omniscient floating
> guys as a plot device, I still enjoyed all of the books.
> [/spoiler]
>
>
>
>
>
> Hasn't someone said that Mr. Cook is getting bored with the Black Company?
I
> have a sneaking suspicsion that Mr. Cook was trying something similar to
> what Mr. Aspirin tried with the Myth Inc Link books in his Myth series ...
> he was trying to change the way he told the story to see if it got him
back
> into the story.
>
> I don't know that is true, of course, but it seemed like such a departure
> that it gave me cause to wonder.
>
> Derrill
>
> |-----Original Message-----
> |From: [e-mail]
> |[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Fraser
> |Ronald
> |Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 7:23 AM
> |To: [e-mail]
> |Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) I am alone?
> |
> |
> | --- Joe G Kushner <[e-mail]> wrote: > I
> |read the first few books of the Black Company with
> |> much enthusism and
> |> I'm now just finished Bleak Seasons and all I can
> |> saw is "blah."  It
> |> didn't grab me at all.  It felt like I was rereading
> |> Dreams of Steel
> |> from another perspective.  I don't like it when
> |> Michael Moorcock does it
> |> excessively like some of his Eternal Champion series
> |> and I certainly
> |> didn't like it here.  The books also seem much
> |> longer in the latter part
> |> of the series.  I'm just getting ready to read She
> |> is the Darkness.  Any
> |> words of warning?
> |
> |I also struggled through 'Bleak Seasons', and I was
> |severely pissed because I had waited something like 3
> |years for it (it's so long ago, it's hard to
> |remember). I was much happier with 'She is the
> |Darkness' (there is a review from my e-zine here:
> |
> |http://www.atfantasy.com/swords_edge/SheIsTheDarknessReview.php
> |)
> |
> |Of course, as others have pointed out, things just
> |keep getting better. And Mr. Cook has signed a
> |contract for another fantasy trilogy. Will it be the
> |Black Company? We can only hope.
> |
> |=====
> |Fraser Ronald
> |"Sword's Edge" (http://www.swordsedge.net/)
> |AtFantasy Alliance Fiction Archive (http://www.atfantasy.com/fiction)
> |
> |__________________________________________________
> |Do You Yahoo!?
> |Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> |from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> |http://uk.my.yahoo.com
> |
> |=======================================================================
> | To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
> | visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
> |
>
>
> =======================================================================
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>  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 17:38:59 -0700
From: Sam Roberts <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) Nero Wolfe and Garrett

FYI RE: Nero Wolfe - The A&E cable channel did a couple of seasons of an
excellent Nero Wolfe series starring Timothy Hutton as Archie Goodwin (he
produced it as well, I believe he's a big fan).  They very much capture the
spirit of the books and even though A&E isn't likely to make any more, they
are currently in reruns at odd times on the channel.  I highly recommend
them for any Nero Wolfe fans.

And yes, Garrett reminds me very much of Archie Goodwin.  I must have a
thing for wise-cracking ladies men.  ;-)

Sam Roberts

- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]]
Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 4:53 PM
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Nero Wolfe and Garrett


>
>I just discovered Rex Stout's Nero Wolfe books, which appear to have =
>been one of Glen's inspirations for the Garrett books.  Has there been a =
>thread about this already? =20
>
>For those who don't know, the Wolfe books involve a brilliant, =
>reclusive, obese detective (i.e., sort of like the dead man) who never =
>leaves his house and his leg-man, Archie Goodwin, who does all the =
>adventuring, then reports to Wolfe, who provides a nearly supernatural =
>intellectual perspective.
>
>Like I said, I assume this has come up before.  If it has, a tip as to =
>the date of the thread would be much appreciated.
>

    It has come up a couple times.  I mentioned it on April 28th.  But,
I don't remember any long threads about it.  I agree that there are some
strong parallels.  Perhaps next time someone talks to Cook they could ask
him about whether he was influenced by Nero Wolfe (or has someone done
that already?)

                Steve


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 16:28:46 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail] (Steve Chew)
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Nero Wolfe and Garrett

>>>
>>>I just discovered Rex Stout's Nero Wolfe books, which appear to have =
>>>been one of Glen's inspirations for the Garrett books.  Has there been a =
>>>thread about this already? =20
>>>
>>>For those who don't know, the Wolfe books involve a brilliant, =
>>>reclusive, obese detective (i.e., sort of like the dead man) who never =
>>>leaves his house and his leg-man, Archie Goodwin, who does all the =
>>>adventuring, then reports to Wolfe, who provides a nearly supernatural =
>>>intellectual perspective.
>>>
>>>Like I said, I assume this has come up before.  If it has, a tip as to =
>>>the date of the thread would be much appreciated.
>>>
>>
>>    It has come up a couple times.  I mentioned it on April 28th.  But,
>>I don't remember any long threads about it.  I agree that there are some
>>strong parallels.  Perhaps next time someone talks to Cook they could ask
>>him about whether he was influenced by Nero Wolfe (or has someone done
>>that already?)
>>
>
>FYI RE: Nero Wolfe - The A&E cable channel did a couple of seasons of an
>excellent Nero Wolfe series starring Timothy Hutton as Archie Goodwin (he
>produced it as well, I believe he's a big fan).  They very much capture the
>spirit of the books and even though A&E isn't likely to make any more, they
>are currently in reruns at odd times on the channel.  I highly recommend
>them for any Nero Wolfe fans.
>
>And yes, Garrett reminds me very much of Archie Goodwin.  I must have a
>thing for wise-cracking ladies men.  ;-)
>

    I second that recommendation.  The series is a lot of fun.  Maury
Chaykin is wonderful as the irascible Nero Wolfe.  He and Hutton have good
chemistry.  It would be interesting to see Hutton play Garrett, though the
Dead Man might not come across well on film... heh.

                Steve


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 14:56:52 -0600
From: Pete Flugstad <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Nero Wolfe and Garrett

Steve Chew wrote:
>     I second that recommendation.  The series is a lot of fun.  Maury
> Chaykin is wonderful as the irascible Nero Wolfe.  He and Hutton have good
> chemistry.  It would be interesting to see Hutton play Garrett, though the
> Dead Man might not come across well on film... heh.

There was an older TV series about Nero Wolfe as well,
with William Conrad as Wolfe:

   http://us.imdb.com/Title?0081906

I recall seeing a few of these a LONG time ago.

Unfortunately, the current A&E series won't see any new episodes:

http://www.aande.com/perl/wwwthreads/wwwthreads.pl?action=list&Board=Wolfe

Sigh...

Pete


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 15:46:54 -0600
From: "Lawrence Jenab" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Nero Wolfe and Garrett

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Chew" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Nero Wolfe and Garrett


> >>>
> >>>I just discovered Rex Stout's Nero Wolfe books, which appear to have =
> >>>been one of Glen's inspirations for the Garrett books.  Has there been
a =
> >>>thread about this already? =20
> >>>
> >>>For those who don't know, the Wolfe books involve a brilliant, =
> >>>reclusive, obese detective (i.e., sort of like the dead man) who never
=
> >>>leaves his house and his leg-man, Archie Goodwin, who does all the =
> >>>adventuring, then reports to Wolfe, who provides a nearly supernatural
=
> >>>intellectual perspective.
> >>>
> >>>Like I said, I assume this has come up before.  If it has, a tip as to
=
> >>>the date of the thread would be much appreciated.
> >>>
> >>
> >> It has come up a couple times.  I mentioned it on April 28th.  But,
> >>I don't remember any long threads about it.  I agree that there are some
> >>strong parallels.  Perhaps next time someone talks to Cook they could
ask
> >>him about whether he was influenced by Nero Wolfe (or has someone done
> >>that already?)
> >>
> >
> >FYI RE: Nero Wolfe - The A&E cable channel did a couple of seasons of an
> >excellent Nero Wolfe series starring Timothy Hutton as Archie Goodwin (he
> >produced it as well, I believe he's a big fan).  They very much capture
the
> >spirit of the books and even though A&E isn't likely to make any more,
they
> >are currently in reruns at odd times on the channel.  I highly recommend
> >them for any Nero Wolfe fans.
> >
> >And yes, Garrett reminds me very much of Archie Goodwin.  I must have a
> >thing for wise-cracking ladies men.  ;-)
> >
>
> I second that recommendation.  The series is a lot of fun.  Maury
> Chaykin is wonderful as the irascible Nero Wolfe.  He and Hutton have good
> chemistry.  It would be interesting to see Hutton play Garrett, though the
> Dead Man might not come across well on film... heh.
>
> Steve
>
>
>

I third the recomendation--I enjoy the series quite a bit.  It's mannered,
and probably not for everyone, but I think it's terrific.

Larry


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 16:18:39 -0600
From: "Richard Gruver" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) I am alone?

That just goes to show you how peoples tastes vary. I was about to give up
on the series until I read Bleak Seasons. Dreams of Steel was kind of
disappointing to me. Bleak Seasons style actually reminded me of "Catch 22".
Not for humor or anything but the sudden flashbacks without warning took
some getting used to in Catch 22 and I actually started it 3 or 4 times
before I got into the rhythm of the story. Maybe that helped when I read
Seasons but it is one of my favorites of the series.
Richard Gruver
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Fraser Ronald" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 8:23 AM
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) I am alone?


> --- Joe G Kushner <[e-mail]> wrote: > I
> read the first few books of the Black Company with
> > much enthusism and
> > I'm now just finished Bleak Seasons and all I can
> > saw is "blah."  It
> > didn't grab me at all.  It felt like I was rereading
> > Dreams of Steel
> > from another perspective.  I don't like it when
> > Michael Moorcock does it
> > excessively like some of his Eternal Champion series
> > and I certainly
> > didn't like it here.  The books also seem much
> > longer in the latter part
> > of the series.  I'm just getting ready to read She
> > is the Darkness.  Any
> > words of warning?
>
> I also struggled through 'Bleak Seasons', and I was
> severely pissed because I had waited something like 3
> years for it (it's so long ago, it's hard to
> remember). I was much happier with 'She is the
> Darkness' (there is a review from my e-zine here:
>
> http://www.atfantasy.com/swords_edge/SheIsTheDarknessReview.php
> )
>
> Of course, as others have pointed out, things just
> keep getting better. And Mr. Cook has signed a
> contract for another fantasy trilogy. Will it be the
> Black Company? We can only hope.
>
> =====
> Fraser Ronald
> "Sword's Edge" (http://www.swordsedge.net/)
> AtFantasy Alliance Fiction Archive (http://www.atfantasy.com/fiction)
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> http://uk.my.yahoo.com
>
> =======================================================================
>  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
>  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 16:26:17 -0600
From: "Lawrence Jenab" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) I am alone?

Well, I agree that the plot slowed down at that point in the series, but I
think that it did so to serve the larger goals of the series, one of which
is to undercut individual perspectives.  That seems to be a theme in Cook's
work.  I didn't find the slow-down a problem, for that reason.

I should add, though, that while I liked Bleak Seasons, Soldiers Live is my
favorite in the series.

Larry

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe G Kushner" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 11:38 PM
Subject: (glencook-fans) I am alone?


> I read the first few books of the Black Company with much enthusism and
> I'm now just finished Bleak Seasons and all I can saw is "blah."  It
> didn't grab me at all.  It felt like I was rereading Dreams of Steel
> from another perspective.  I don't like it when Michael Moorcock does it
> excessively like some of his Eternal Champion series and I certainly
> didn't like it here.  The books also seem much longer in the latter part
> of the series.  I'm just getting ready to read She is the Darkness.  Any
> words of warning?
>
>
>
> =======================================================================
>  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
>  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>
>



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 09:26:56 +1000
From: Graham Allen <[e-mail]>
Subject: (glencook-fans) Sung in Blood for sale

Hi All,

Incase someone is interested, there's a copy of Sung in Blood for sale on
ebay at the moment.  It has 2 days to go.

Its currently at $150 which is out of my league so I'm not bidding.

seeya
Graham


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End of glencook-fans-digest V1 #231
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