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glencook-fans-digest       Tuesday, June 5 2001       Volume 01 : Number 110




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 23:08:53 -0300
From: Richard Chilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: (glencook-fans) Kind of off topic book comparison

Just finished reading a book by Margaret Weis that included a mercenary
company, and as I read it I couldn't help comparing it with Cook's
books.

Margaret Weis is a good author - when it comes to shades of grey she's
done a lot of exploring of the area between good and evil - or at least
more than many fantasy authors.  The book in question (_Brothers in
Arms_ - WARNING - SPOILER for this book included in this message) builds
the foundation of character's slow decent into evil.

With this in mind I'd had hopes of the quality of her mercenary
company.  It wouldn't be the Black Company, but it might have
reflections of it.  Alas, I was sorely disappointed.

Weis' mercenaries were, well, unreal.  Implausible.  Nice Guys one and
all.
How nice?
They switch sides in the middle of a battle so they can be on the 'good
guys' side - which is out numbered and unable to pay them.
When they get backstabbed by the bad guys who were their employers (yes,
they discovered the employers were the bad guys) they are shocked and
outraged.  They ask themselves how any employer (including an evil one)
could treat a merc company that way.

In short, as I read I kept mentally comparing this book with the Black
Company, and it came up short.

Richard

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 21:32:32 -0500
From: "S Townsend" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) Kind of off topic book comparison

I'd been disapointed before in what I saw as the shallowness of the
characters Weis (and Hickman, when they wrote together) created.  Even
though I enjoyed the first 6 books of the dragonlance series, though haven't
liked anything since then, I though that good guys and bad guys both were
pretty 2 dimensional.

As far as having any 'historical' type authenticity with regards to a
mercenary company, no, I'm not surpised at your findings.

Sam T.


- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail]
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Richard
Chilton
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 9:09 PM
To: [e-mail]
Subject: (glencook-fans) Kind of off topic book comparison


Just finished reading a book by Margaret Weis that included a mercenary
company, and as I read it I couldn't help comparing it with Cook's
books.

Margaret Weis is a good author - when it comes to shades of grey she's
done a lot of exploring of the area between good and evil - or at least
more than many fantasy authors.  The book in question (_Brothers in
Arms_ - WARNING - SPOILER for this book included in this message) builds
the foundation of character's slow decent into evil.

With this in mind I'd had hopes of the quality of her mercenary
company.  It wouldn't be the Black Company, but it might have
reflections of it.  Alas, I was sorely disappointed.

Weis' mercenaries were, well, unreal.  Implausible.  Nice Guys one and
all.
How nice?
They switch sides in the middle of a battle so they can be on the 'good
guys' side - which is out numbered and unable to pay them.
When they get backstabbed by the bad guys who were their employers (yes,
they discovered the employers were the bad guys) they are shocked and
outraged.  They ask themselves how any employer (including an evil one)
could treat a merc company that way.

In short, as I read I kept mentally comparing this book with the Black
Company, and it came up short.

Richard

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 23:42:57 -0300
From: Richard Chilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Kind of off topic book comparison

S Townsend wrote:
>
> I'd been disapointed before in what I saw as the shallowness of the
> characters Weis (and Hickman, when they wrote together) created.  Even
> though I enjoyed the first 6 books of the dragonlance series, though haven't
> liked anything since then, I though that good guys and bad guys both were
> pretty 2 dimensional.
>

Unfortunately there aren't many authors who develope characters like
Cook does, and fewer living (still miss  Zelazny).  That said, most of
the non Weis Hickman books in that series were based one dimensional
versions of the characters that Weis and Hickman introduced.  They
returned to that series as partners for two books - and these showed
some growth in character development.

Unfortunately Wies is now writting with her husband as opposed to
Hickman, and some of the polish appears to be gone.  With an entire merc
company to play with she didn't really develop anyone beyond the
reoccuring characters.  Most (if not all) of the merc characters could
be summed up a sentence a piece - all of the sterotypes are there.

As a 'heroic good guys vs the villians' novel it wasn't bad, but since
the merc company got me thinking of Cook and that got me thinking about
what the book was lacking (realism, plausibility, etc) in terms of its
mercenaries.

Richard

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 08:34:46 -0700
From: "Chuck red_snot" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re: (glencook-fans) Kind of off topic book comparison

>>Unfortunately Wies is now writting with her husband as opposed to
Hickman, and some of the polish appears to be gone.  With an entire
merc
company to play with she didn't really develop anyone beyond the
reoccuring characters.  Most (if not all) of the merc characters could
be summed up a sentence a piece - all of the sterotypes are there.

As a 'heroic good guys vs the villians' novel it wasn't bad, but since
the merc company got me thinking of Cook and that got me thinking
about
what the book was lacking (realism, plausibility, etc) in terms of its
mercenaries>>

Weis and Hickman have been writing together.  They are currently at
work on another Dragonlance trilogy (of which two books are now
published).

As far as their writing goes...I really only enjoyed the first three
DL books.  But not everyone can (or should) write like Cook.


I'd rather be drunk
Beer Mail, brought to you by your friends at beer.com.

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 13:52:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Igor Filippov <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re: (glencook-fans) Kind of off topic book comparison

I'm finishing "Death Gate" series (by Weis and Hickman) right now -
if this is an example of one of their better works - it's pretty
two-(or maybe even one-)dimensional...

Igor


On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Chuck red_snot wrote:

> >>Unfortunately Wies is now writting with her husband as opposed to
> Hickman, and some of the polish appears to be gone.  With an entire
> merc
> company to play with she didn't really develop anyone beyond the
> reoccuring characters.  Most (if not all) of the merc characters could
> be summed up a sentence a piece - all of the sterotypes are there.
>
> As a 'heroic good guys vs the villians' novel it wasn't bad, but since
> the merc company got me thinking of Cook and that got me thinking
> about
> what the book was lacking (realism, plausibility, etc) in terms of its
> mercenaries>>
>
> Weis and Hickman have been writing together.  They are currently at
> work on another Dragonlance trilogy (of which two books are now
> published).
>
> As far as their writing goes...I really only enjoyed the first three
> DL books.  But not everyone can (or should) write like Cook.
>
>
> I'd rather be drunk
> Beer Mail, brought to you by your friends at beer.com.
>
> =======================================================================
>  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
>  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 11:15:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Fade Dreamer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re: (glencook-fans) Kind of off topic book comparison

I would have to agree. I stopped liking their works
after Legends series. The Rose of the Prophet series
was ok but the Darksword series was not too good and
the Death Gate Cycle was muddled and lacked direction.
ALL the books since then have been aweful. Their
return to dragonlance has not come close to drawing me
in, their 1 shot follow up to Darksword was pitiful.

I think it more to do with myself than their writing
though. I think i have matured as a reader and "need a
little more substance" to my reading. These days their
are only 2 authors that do that for me and they are
Glen Cook and George R. R. Martin. I strongly suggest
any Cook fans to give GRRM's series "Song of Ice and
Fire" a try. It is, in my current opinion, the best
fantasy reading I have read in my life. Glen Cooks BC
is the Best Series I have ever read. Agghh. If the two
of them came out with a book the same day and I only
had 30bucks to spend I would pull my hair out and
donate blood or whatever to get them both. heh.

I think the ending of The Black Company was the most
satisfying ending to a series I could have imagined
and that is why i hope he does not try to continue the
Company in its present incarnation and goes back to
the very beginning of the company.

heh. just my 2 cents.

Croccifixio

- --- Igor Filippov <[e-mail]> wrote:
> I'm finishing "Death Gate" series (by Weis and
> Hickman) right now -
> if this is an example of one of their better works -
> it's pretty
> two-(or maybe even one-)dimensional...
>
> Igor
>
>
> On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Chuck red_snot wrote:
>
> > >>Unfortunately Wies is now writting with her
> husband as opposed to
> > Hickman, and some of the polish appears to be
> gone.  With an entire
> > merc
> > company to play with she didn't really develop
> anyone beyond the
> > reoccuring characters.  Most (if not all) of the
> merc characters could
> > be summed up a sentence a piece - all of the
> sterotypes are there.
> >
> > As a 'heroic good guys vs the villians' novel it
> wasn't bad, but since
> > the merc company got me thinking of Cook and that
> got me thinking
> > about
> > what the book was lacking (realism, plausibility,
> etc) in terms of its
> > mercenaries>>
> >
> > Weis and Hickman have been writing together.  They
> are currently at
> > work on another Dragonlance trilogy (of which two
> books are now
> > published).
> >
> > As far as their writing goes...I really only
> enjoyed the first three
> > DL books.  But not everyone can (or should) write
> like Cook.
> >
> >
> > I'd rather be drunk
> > Beer Mail, brought to you by your friends at
> beer.com.
> >
> >
>
=======================================================================
> >  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives
> of this list,
> >  visit
> <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
> >
>
>
>
=======================================================================
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> of this list,
>  visit
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 14:34:31 -0400
From: "Timothy P. Taylor" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Re: (glencook-fans) Kind of off topic book comparison

Hmmm.  I'm with you in agreement regarding the best damn series I've ever
read is The Black Company.  (Okay...Zelazny's Amber Series is second
place...not too close, but close.)  I do however, hope that Cook continues
the series, as I think a next book would be MUCH different from Soldiers
Live, and it would Rock.  Throughout the BC series, Cook has pulled it off
several times, each time leaving me in speechless awe at how they all really
DO seem to mesh, though not at first.

My .02 worth.

TT

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Fade Dreamer
> Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 2:16 PM
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: Re: (glencook-fans) Kind of off topic book comparison
>
>
>
> I would have to agree. I stopped liking their works
> after Legends series. The Rose of the Prophet series
> was ok but the Darksword series was not too good and
> the Death Gate Cycle was muddled and lacked direction.
> ALL the books since then have been aweful. Their
> return to dragonlance has not come close to drawing me
> in, their 1 shot follow up to Darksword was pitiful.
>
> I think it more to do with myself than their writing
> though. I think i have matured as a reader and "need a
> little more substance" to my reading. These days their
> are only 2 authors that do that for me and they are
> Glen Cook and George R. R. Martin. I strongly suggest
> any Cook fans to give GRRM's series "Song of Ice and
> Fire" a try. It is, in my current opinion, the best
> fantasy reading I have read in my life. Glen Cooks BC
> is the Best Series I have ever read. Agghh. If the two
> of them came out with a book the same day and I only
> had 30bucks to spend I would pull my hair out and
> donate blood or whatever to get them both. heh.
>
> I think the ending of The Black Company was the most
> satisfying ending to a series I could have imagined
> and that is why i hope he does not try to continue the
> Company in its present incarnation and goes back to
> the very beginning of the company.
>
> heh. just my 2 cents.
>
> Croccifixio
>
> --- Igor Filippov <[e-mail]> wrote:
> > I'm finishing "Death Gate" series (by Weis and
> > Hickman) right now -
> > if this is an example of one of their better works -
> > it's pretty
> > two-(or maybe even one-)dimensional...
> >
> > Igor
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Chuck red_snot wrote:
> >
> > > >>Unfortunately Wies is now writting with her
> > husband as opposed to
> > > Hickman, and some of the polish appears to be
> > gone.  With an entire
> > > merc
> > > company to play with she didn't really develop
> > anyone beyond the
> > > reoccuring characters.  Most (if not all) of the
> > merc characters could
> > > be summed up a sentence a piece - all of the
> > sterotypes are there.
> > >
> > > As a 'heroic good guys vs the villians' novel it
> > wasn't bad, but since
> > > the merc company got me thinking of Cook and that
> > got me thinking
> > > about
> > > what the book was lacking (realism, plausibility,
> > etc) in terms of its
> > > mercenaries>>
> > >
> > > Weis and Hickman have been writing together.  They
> > are currently at
> > > work on another Dragonlance trilogy (of which two
> > books are now
> > > published).
> > >
> > > As far as their writing goes...I really only
> > enjoyed the first three
> > > DL books.  But not everyone can (or should) write
> > like Cook.
> > >
> > >
> > > I'd rather be drunk
> > > Beer Mail, brought to you by your friends at
> > beer.com.
> > >
> > >
> >
> =======================================================================
> > >  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives
> > of this list,
> > >  visit
> > <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> =======================================================================
> >  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives
> > of this list,
> >  visit
> <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 15:40:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Fraser Ronald <[e-mail]>
Subject: (glencook-fans) Off-topic recommendation (Was: Kind of off topic book comparison)

- --- Fade Dreamer <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> I think it more to do with myself than their writing
> though. I think i have matured as a reader and "need
> a
> little more substance" to my reading.

Abso-damn-lutely. I read the DL series in high school
(early on at that) and I really enjoyed. Read through
it again last year and could only shake my head. I
read 'The Black Company' soon after DL, and was in
awe. Read it again last year. Still in awe.

>These days
> their
> are only 2 authors that do that for me and they are
> Glen Cook and George R. R. Martin. I strongly
> suggest
> any Cook fans to give GRRM's series "Song of Ice and
> Fire" a try. It is, in my current opinion, the best
> fantasy reading I have read in my life. Glen Cooks
> BC
> is the Best Series I have ever read.

I agree with the two statement, but I've got to turn
people on to Guy Gavriel Kay. Excellent writing,
amazing characters, fully-realized settings,
compelling plots, Guy Kay has got it all. Start off
with 'Tigana'. If you dig high fantasy, and need your
pseudo-Tolkien kick, check out 'The Fionovar Tapestry'
(also, he helped Christopher Tolkien compile and edit
'the Silmarillion'). His recent duology, 'The
Sarantine Mosaic' is astounding. Seriously, check him
out! His other books include "A Song for Arbonne' and
"Lions of Al-Rassan'.

Fraser Ronald
Admin, AtFantasy Fiction Archive
(http://www.atfantasy.com/fiction)

"The way of even the most justifiable revolutions is
prepared by personal impulses disguised into creeds."

Joseph Conrad, "The Secret Agent"

PS Feel free to check out my musings on 'The Black
Company' at the website above, to be found in the
'Novels' section.

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 14:50:06 -0500
From: "Horky, Roger" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) Off-topic recommendation (Was: Kind of off to pic book comparison)

One of my favorite things about GC's work is the settings--the characters
don't just exist in a vacuum.

For similar reasons, I recommend Paula Volsky's work. Start with Illusion
and its sequel, then read the White Tribunal. Real characters in real places
with real problems--that's why I read fantasy.

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 17:03:05 -0500
From: "Don" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (glencook-fans) A Matter of Time (Possible Spoilers)

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C0EDE1.637AF180
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello all,
I got through A Matter of Time a week ago. I say "got through", because =
it was kind of tough. There were four different plots going at once, =
which I don't usually mind, but they didn't tie together right away. It =
made it a little challenging to get into. I must say when the end came =
crashing down on me I was in awe for a while. The twist at the end was =
amazing. I can only compare it to the first time I watched "The Usual =
Suspects". If any of you enjoyed that movie, you will know what I mean =
when you read this book.=20
Spoilers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!=
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I could have lived without the Hitler reference. Taking into =
consideration when it was written I can understand why Cook decided to =
put it in there. Dam, that was almost 20 years ago. There were some =
political references that I just did not get. I need to read up on the =
Vietnam War.=20

Any body else want to share viewpoints on the book?

Don=20
"In time, what's deserved always gets served."- COC



- ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C0EDE1.637AF180
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello all,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I got through A Matter of Time a week =
ago. I say=20
"got through", because it was kind of tough. There were four different =
plots=20
going at once, which I don't usually mind, but they didn't tie together =
right=20
away. It made it a little challenging to get into. I must say when the =
end came=20
crashing down on me I was in awe for a while. The twist at the end was =
amazing.=20
I can only compare it to the first time I watched "The Usual Suspects". =
If any=20
of you enjoyed that movie, you will know what I mean when you read this =
book.=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Spoilers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!=
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I could have lived without the Hitler =
reference.=20
Taking into consideration when it was written I can understand why Cook =
decided=20
to put it in there. Dam, that was almost 20 years ago. There were some =
political=20
references that I just did not get. I need to read up on the Vietnam =
War.=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Any body else want to share viewpoints =
on the=20
book?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Don <BR>"In time, what's deserved =
always gets=20
served."- COC</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C0EDE1.637AF180--


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 23:44:44 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: (glencook-fans) FA: three autographed Glen Cook books

- --part1_ab.a84cf5b.284f012c_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Greetings!

Some time ago, I auctioned off most of my spare autographed Glen Cook books,
when I needed some cash.  Well, I need cash again, and I have three
duplicates left... so here I go again.

These books were autographed by Glen for me at Chattacon about three years
ago.  They are all in pretty good shape - been read a couple of times, covers
still glossy, no damage except the typical minor amounts of corner and edge
wear you would expect from a book that has been read a couple of times.

I will be taking separate bids only - please no group bids.  I will run this
auction for one week, until the evening of the 12th.  I will notify each
bidder if he or she is outbid.

Postage will be 'actual cost', wherever you live.  I'll accept check or money
order, but I'll wait a week for personal checks to clear before mailing.
Insurance at the pleasure of the buyer.

I think that covers everything.


The books:

The Black Company
Shadows Linger
Cold Copper Tears

I also have a non-autographed copy of An Ill Fate Marshaling, in similar
shape as the others, but the front cover has been bent about halfway over,
through the long axis of the front cover, and has a crease to show it.

Please respond directly to my email, [e-mail].

Thanks,

Pete Mohney

- --part1_ab.a84cf5b.284f012c_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Greetings!
<BR>
<BR>Some time ago, I auctioned off most of my spare autographed Glen Cook books,
<BR>when I needed some cash.  Well, I need cash again, and I have three
<BR>duplicates left... so here I go again.
<BR>
<BR>These books were autographed by Glen for me at Chattacon about three years
<BR>ago.  They are all in pretty good shape - been read a couple of times, covers
<BR>still glossy, no damage except the typical minor amounts of corner and edge
<BR>wear you would expect from a book that has been read a couple of times.
<BR>
<BR>I will be taking separate bids only - please no group bids.  I will run this
<BR>auction for one week, until the evening of the 12th.  I will notify each
<BR>bidder if he or she is outbid.
<BR>
<BR>Postage will be 'actual cost', wherever you live.  I'll accept check or money
<BR>order, but I'll wait a week for personal checks to clear before mailing.
<BR>Insurance at the pleasure of the buyer.
<BR>
<BR>I think that covers everything.
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>The books:
<BR>
<BR>The Black Company
<BR>Shadows Linger
<BR>Cold Copper Tears
<BR>
<BR>I also have a non-autographed copy of An Ill Fate Marshaling, in similar
<BR>shape as the others, but the front cover has been bent about halfway over,
<BR>through the long axis of the front cover, and has a crease to show it.
<BR>
<BR>Please respond directly to my email, [e-mail].
<BR>
<BR>Thanks,
<BR>
<BR>Pete Mohney</FONT></HTML>

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