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From: owner-glencook-fans-digest@lists.xmission.com (glencook-fans-digest)
To: glencook-fans-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: glencook-fans-digest V1 #57
Reply-To: glencook-fans-digest
Sender: owner-glencook-fans-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-glencook-fans-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
glencook-fans-digest Friday, November 17 2000 Volume 01 : Number 057
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 07:42:07 -0800
From: "Tim McDowell" <mcdowelt@izzyspizza.com>
Subject: Re: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) SPOILER on Soldiers Live
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Stacey Harris <harrissg@slu.edu>
To: <glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2000 11:43 PM
Subject: Re: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) SPOILER on Soldiers Live
> Tim,
>
> > Spoiler Space
> >
> > /.,'
> > .,,;,;
> > \
> > './.\
> > '.\
> > .\
> > ]'.
> > \\
> > ./\
> > ./\
> > ?.\
> >
> > .\
> > './\
> > .
> > .\
> > .\
> > /.\
> > .\
> > /.\
> > /.\
> > /./\
> > .\
> > .\\
> > '.
> >
>
> "I tend to disagree with the conclusion that Sleepy was an
> incompetent Captain for the Black Company."
>
> My conclusion on that has nothing to do with Croaker's reportage, but
> with Sleepy's utter fiasco of a frontal attack on the city, quite out of
> keeping with BC tactics--and not really in keeping with BC strategic
> aims, either (it wasn't a necessary campaign to wage). Cook has "fate"
> do in Sleepy and others ignominiously as apt repayment for her
> incompetence at the end, as I see it.
>
> steve
I don't think it was ignominiously. Granted that the gate's towers
should have been secured first, but there was no way anyone, in the Company,
could have foreseen what was about to happen.
The Company had breached the cities gate and was marching in.to take
control of the city. Sleepy and her command staff were in the middle of the
column when they entered the gate area. The trap that was triggered was the
one that Mogaba had designed to that out SoulCatcher. In a roundabout way
quite a compliment. One that I'm sure was lost on Sleepy and all the others
with her. They were to busy dying at the time.
Tim
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 12:02:07 -0600
From: "Jordan Raney" <jrraney@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) SPOILER on Soldiers Live
> > > > Spoiler Space
> > > >
> > > > /.,'
> > > > .,,;,;
> > > > \
> > > > './.\
> > > > '.\
> > > > .\
> > > > ]'.
> > > > \\
> > > > ./\
> > > > ./\
> > > > ?.\
> > > >
> > > > .\
> > > > './\
> > > > .
> > > > .\
> > > > .\
> > > > /.\
> > > > .\
> > > > /.\
> > > > /.\
> > > > /./\
> > > > .\
> > > > .\\
> > > > '.
> I don't think Sleepy was a bad captain either. From studying history, and
> considering the magical resources she had available (not much), a frontal
> assault in 2 places is about as good as you can get. That city had a
wall,
> and unless Tobo (who was real out of it at the time) just knocked a huge
> stretch of it down, then that leaves only a few points to attack from
(hince
> the purpose of the wall, channeling the attacker where you want). In this
> case through the river quarter (hard to do even in modern times because it
> is an amphibious operation) and the gate
The Old Company would have taken the city by stealth, I think that's the
important thing. The wouldn't have probably sent anyone in through the
gates, but rather gotten some guys hidden in there to let them in.
=======================================================================
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visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 12:05:11 -0600
From: "Jordan Raney" <jrraney@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) SPOILER on Soldiers Live
> > > > Spoiler Space
> > > >
> > > > /.,'
> > > > .,,;,;
> > > > \
> > > > './.\
> > > > '.\
> > > > .\
> > > > ]'.
> > > > \\
> > > > ./\
> > > > ./\
> > > > ?.\
> > > >
> > > > .\
> > > > './\
> > > > .
> > > > .\
> > > > .\
> > > > /.\
> > > > .\
> > > > /.\
> > > > /.\
> > > > /./\
> > > > .\
> > > > .\\
> > > > '.
> > > >
> > If you aren't "happy" with someone you are writing about, you probably
> > wouldn't have created the character in the first place.
>
> Sorry, I seem to have given you some confusion. In my last sentence
> above, I was still speaking of Croaker writing in the Annals about
Sleepy.
> Not Mr. Cook writing about Croaker writing about Sleepy. (if i put one
more
> twist in there i'll probably be able to bite myself in the back.)
Whoops, I see that now, sorry. I misunderstood.
>
> =======================================================================
> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
=======================================================================
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visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 13:31:09 -0500
From: "Wright Frazier" <khelek@cioe.com>
Subject: Re: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) SPOILER on Soldiers Live
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jordan Raney" <jrraney@mediaone.net>
To: <glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) SPOILER on Soldiers Live
> > > > > Spoiler Space
> > > > >
> > > > > /.,'
> > > > > .,,;,;
> > > > > \
> > > > > './.\
> > > > > '.\
> > > > > .\
> > > > > ]'.
> > > > > \\
> > > > > ./\
> > > > > ./\
> > > > > ?.\
> > > > >
> > > > > .\
> > > > > './\
> > > > > .
> > > > > .\
> > > > > .\
> > > > > /.\
> > > > > .\
> > > > > /.\
> > > > > /.\
> > > > > /./\
> > > > > .\
> > > > > .\\
> > > > > '.
> > I don't think Sleepy was a bad captain either. From studying history,
and
> > considering the magical resources she had available (not much), a
frontal
> > assault in 2 places is about as good as you can get. That city had a
> wall,
> > and unless Tobo (who was real out of it at the time) just knocked a huge
> > stretch of it down, then that leaves only a few points to attack from
> (hince
> > the purpose of the wall, channeling the attacker where you want). In
this
> > case through the river quarter (hard to do even in modern times because
it
> > is an amphibious operation) and the gate
>
> The Old Company would have taken the city by stealth, I think that's the
> important thing. The wouldn't have probably sent anyone in through the
> gates, but rather gotten some guys hidden in there to let them in.
The siege we saw the old company do was a frontal assault as well but they
did have a lot more resources to use too. (taken's magic, and siege engines
gallore).
Wright
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 13:50:56 -0500
From: Jay DeSimone <jdesimon1@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) SPOILER on Soldiers Live
> > > > Spoiler Space
> > > >
> > > > /.,'
> > > > .,,;,;
> > > > \
> > > > './.\
> > > > '.\
> > > > .\
> > > > ]'.
> > > > \\
> > > > ./\
> > > > ./\
> > > > ?.\
> > > >
> > > > .\
> > > > './\
> > > > .
> > > > .\
> > > > .\
> > > > /.\
> > > > .\
> > > > /.\
> > > > /.\
> > > > /./\
> > > > .\
> > > > .\\
> > > > '.
>The Old Company would have taken the city by stealth, I think that's the
>important thing. The wouldn't have probably sent anyone in through the
>gates, but rather gotten some guys hidden in there to let them in.
the old company had some major wizards with them, too. But even they took
big cities by force, not stealth. Mogaba was a good general; he would have
protected against people in the city opening the gates. I'm not trying to
generate conflict, just my opinion.
Jay
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 20:39:34 +0100
From: "Marcin Welnicki" <szyderca@poczta.onet.pl>
Subject: Odp: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) SPOILER on Soldiers Live
> If Sleepy screwed up, it was in entering the city before that gate house
was
> fully taken. Trap or no trap, that is just begging for trouble.
>
> Wright
But I had an impression the whole attack on the Taglios Territory was
unprepared. Thay had everything thay needed to win, and if not they could
wait a couple of years.
And of course the great mistake Sleepy did, in my opinion, was to let ALL
the wizards fly to the gate when they were so close to Taglios.
Mocker
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 12:51:07 -0700
From: Eric Herrmann <shpshftr@xmission.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Fw: EMAZING Internet Tip of the Day - Book Search Engines
on 11/15/00 8:20 AM, Tim McDowell at mcdowelt@izzyspizza.com wrote:
> I got this in a e-mail. Maybe someone else can also use these sites.
[snip]
A list of online resources that are useful in acquiring Glen Cook books are
located at < http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Links4.html >.
- --
Eric Herrmann
<shpshftr@xmission.com>
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 14:51:21 -0500
From: "Wright Frazier" <khelek@cioe.com>
Subject: Re: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) SPOILER on Soldiers Live
SPOILERS
.
- ---
Naw I think considering that the Children of the Dead only signed up for 1
or 2 years in the field they had to know that they couldn't jerk around in
the campaign. They had to go for the throat and go fast. That ment driving
on Taglios till Soulcatcher & Mogaba were dead, with a handy side benefit of
the Radisha & Pahbindrah being put back in power.
Now along the way they had to improvise as the situation warrented, but
their plan and planning was definately directed towards taking the city in
the end.
As for the wizards going to Mogaba's tower where the big cluster happened
(if thats what ya mean by the gate) with the shadows. Quite true that would
have been the big mistake, but i'm not entirely sure Sleepy okayed that. I
think she did and if so you are definately right. Cause that set the stage
for Tobo & Lady not being able to just blow the gate house, where Sleepy
died and the company got cut in half, to splinters.
Something else that bugged me... and correct me if I'm wrong. But didn't it
say that when sleepy entered they controlled stretches of the wall but not
the gate house? And how high was the wall?
Wright
> > If Sleepy screwed up, it was in entering the city before that gate house
> was
> > fully taken. Trap or no trap, that is just begging for trouble.
> >
> > Wright
>
> But I had an impression the whole attack on the Taglios Territory was
> unprepared. Thay had everything thay needed to win, and if not they could
> wait a couple of years.
> And of course the great mistake Sleepy did, in my opinion, was to let
ALL
> the wizards fly to the gate when they were so close to Taglios.
>
> Mocker
>
>
> =======================================================================
> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>
=======================================================================
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 21:39:16 +0100
From: "Marcin Welnicki" <szyderca@poczta.onet.pl>
Subject: Odp: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) SPOILER on Soldiers Live
- ----- > As for the wizards going to Mogaba's tower where the big cluster
happened
> (if thats what ya mean by the gate) with the shadows. Quite true that
would
> have been the big mistake, but i'm not entirely sure Sleepy okayed that.
I
> think she did and if so you are definately right. Cause that set the
stage
> for Tobo & Lady not being able to just blow the gate house, where Sleepy
> died and the company got cut in half, to splinters.
>
> Something else that bugged me... and correct me if I'm wrong. But didn't
it
> say that when sleepy entered they controlled stretches of the wall but not
> the gate house? And how high was the wall?
>
> Wright
>
Yeah the Mogaba's room situation bugged me too, but saying 'the gate' I
meant the Shadowgate, when there was that big battle with Mogaba( when Swan
and Blade got killed).
Mocker
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 15:59:44 -0500
From: "Wright Frazier" <khelek@cioe.com>
Subject: Re: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) SPOILER on Soldiers Live
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Marcin Welnicki" <szyderca@poczta.onet.pl>
To: <glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 3:39 PM
Subject: Odp: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) SPOILER on Soldiers Live
>
> ----- > As for the wizards going to Mogaba's tower where the big cluster
> happened
> > (if thats what ya mean by the gate) with the shadows. Quite true that
> would
> > have been the big mistake, but i'm not entirely sure Sleepy okayed that.
> I
> > think she did and if so you are definately right. Cause that set the
> stage
> > for Tobo & Lady not being able to just blow the gate house, where Sleepy
> > died and the company got cut in half, to splinters.
> >
> > Something else that bugged me... and correct me if I'm wrong. But
didn't
> it
> > say that when sleepy entered they controlled stretches of the wall but
not
> > the gate house? And how high was the wall?
> >
> > Wright
> >
> Yeah the Mogaba's room situation bugged me too, but saying 'the gate'
I
> meant the Shadowgate, when there was that big battle with Mogaba( when
Swan
> and Blade got killed).
>
> Mocker
>
Ahhh that one, that was a cluster. Its a toss up between the two.
Wright
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 15:18:59 -0600
From: Steve Harris <harrissg@SLU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) SPOILER on Soldiers Live
Jay,
> > Spoiler Space
> >
> > /.,'
> > .,,;,;
> > \
> > './.\
> > '.\
> > .\
> > ]'.
> > \\
> > ./\
> > ./\
> > ?.\
> >
> > .\
> > './\
> > .
> > .\
> > .\
> > /.\
> > .\
> > /.\
> > /.\
> > /./\
> > .\
> > .\\
You say,
"I have to disagree about Sleepy being a bad Captain at all. Remember, she
kept the company hidden under Catcher's nose for a lot of years during the
captivity. "
Ah, but I'm not criticizing Sleepy as Captain--only as WarLeader. She
did wonderfully at Captaining the Company through the hard years in
Taglios and staging the rescue.
Rather, I criticize her strategic decision to take Taglios and her
tactical plans in doing so--that's where she failed abjectly.
"How many assaults on cities did Croaker lead? Wtat made
attacking Taglios a bad idea?"
Only one, his biggest disater: Dejagore. What made attacking Taglios a
bad idea was that there was no strategic need to do so. Maybe the
Prahbindrah Drah wanted Taglios attacked, but she didn't have anything
to hire the BC with; it was really Sleepy's idea.
"Croaker's lack of planning and playing
everything as it came led to the Dejagore disaster."
I don't agree--he misplayed Dejagore, but it wasn't through lack of
planning: He had it planned out quite well; it's just that the
opposition was a bit tougher than he expected, and his forces were a bit
weaker than he'd anticipated. Had one platoon held instead of
breakiing, he'd have won a complete victory there.
Still, he *did* fail to allow for extra weakness on his side and extra
strength on the opposition--and it cost him big. That's not in keeping
with Company traditional tactics, which emphasize flexibility and
deceptive tactics, allowing attacks to take place in overwhelming strength.
Even so, Dejagore was not as big a disaster for the BC as Taglios
was--he had a reserve (Lady's troops) which just didn't make it on the
scene in time, and that reserve eventually came to the rescue, since
Croaker had the savvy to secure a safe place for his remaining troops,
inside Dejagore. Sleepy had no strategic reserve and no safe
haven--another blunder. (Oh, she had Croaker and his cronies, but they
weren't enough to turn the tide; and there was no haven to come to the
rescue of.)
Steve
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 15:28:37 -0600
From: Steve Harris <harrissg@SLU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) SPOILER on Soldiers Live
Wright,
I agree with you here:
"historically speaking there is no good way to assault a city with a
wall, that is why such things _ALWAYS_ resulted in horrible sackings and
butcherings if the city resisted."
Sleepy ought to have known that; hadn't she read the chronicles? Or
maybe she hadn't read them carefully for military tactics.
Point is, you *don't* go for a bitterly hostile walled city unless you
have no choice: You subvert, you co-opt, you make treaty, you sneak in
sabateours, you lay long-term siege--*anything* but frontal assualt, if
you possibly can. What was eating Sleepy that she had to get in *now*?
Couldn't wait for, say, the populace to be unanimous in being against
the Protector? For traitors to subvert 'Catcher's entire garrison? For
setting up a shadow government with the Prahbrindrah Drah as visible
head, just outside the walls? For waiting for 'Catcher to make a
mistake and expose herself?
Another choice altogher: Just lay in crops in the erstwhile Shadowland
and rusticate; forget 'Catcher!
That is why Sleepy has to be seen as incompetent in the handling of the
War for Taglios.
Steve
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 16:46:17 -0500
From: "Wright Frazier" <khelek@cioe.com>
Subject: Re: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) SPOILER on Soldiers Live
> Wright,
>
> I agree with you here:
>
> "historically speaking there is no good way to assault a city with a
> wall, that is why such things _ALWAYS_ resulted in horrible sackings and
> butcherings if the city resisted."
>
> Sleepy ought to have known that; hadn't she read the chronicles? Or
> maybe she hadn't read them carefully for military tactics.
>
> Point is, you *don't* go for a bitterly hostile walled city unless you
> have no choice: You subvert, you co-opt, you make treaty, you sneak in
> sabateours, you lay long-term siege--*anything* but frontal assualt, if
> you possibly can. What was eating Sleepy that she had to get in *now*?
> Couldn't wait for, say, the populace to be unanimous in being against
> the Protector? For traitors to subvert 'Catcher's entire garrison? For
> setting up a shadow government with the Prahbrindrah Drah as visible
> head, just outside the walls? For waiting for 'Catcher to make a
> mistake and expose herself?
>
> Another choice altogher: Just lay in crops in the erstwhile Shadowland
> and rusticate; forget 'Catcher!
>
> That is why Sleepy has to be seen as incompetent in the handling of the
> War for Taglios.
>
> Steve
Why did she have to go after Taglios so quick? Because her army was about
to melt away. Remember, the various companies in the Company had only
signed on for a year in the field. That doesn't leave time for a protracted
siege.
Further even a protracted siege is incredibly dangerous. You have to feed
yourself off of the land, disease is a huge killer as discipline gets lax,
and Mogaba had a huge man power pool to draw on and he was the kinda hard
case who would level a section of the city _JUST_ for use as a training
ground. Lastly, they couldn't starve them out. Sleepy had no brown water
navy to blockade the river traffic of Taglios, so food could be brought in
from up river or down.
As for subverting. Again, not an option as Kina was influencing everyone to
stand against the Company.
Sabatague: Hard to do when you got 2 very competent people leading the other
side (Singh & Mogaba).
The Companies objective in this was simple...pay back the traitors. She
mined the Plain for the wealth for the Black Company to hire its own company
of mercenaries (the Children of the Dead) with the Black Company as its
commanding officers. Those folks weren't really Black Company, they were
people the real Company had hired to fight. Best shown by the fact again
that the Children of the Dead were at the ends of their contracts for field
service.
So no, she couldn't wait if she wanted to get Mogaba & Taglios. She had to
do it then.
Wright
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 16:54:18 -0500
From: Jay DeSimone <jdesimon1@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) SPOILER on Soldiers Live
> > Spoiler Space
> >
> > /.,'
> > .,,;,;
> > \
> > './.\
> > '.\
> > .\
> > ]'.
> > \\
> > ./\
> > ./\
> > ?.\
> >
> > .\
> > './\
> > .
> > .\
> > .\
> > /.\
> > .\
> > /.\
> > /.\
> > /./\
> > .\
> > .\\
"How many assaults on cities did Croaker lead?"
"Only one, his biggest disater: Dejagore. "
I think he led several. He had to conquer the fortress on the other side
of the ford from Taglios, along with all the cities/towns on the way to
Dejagore, even if they are not all named. Even Lady mentions in her annals
that Croaker's playing the odds finally did him in.
Jay
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 16:59:23 -0500
From: Jay DeSimone <jdesimon1@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) SPOILER on Soldiers Live
Another choice altogher: Just lay in crops in the erstwhile Shadowland
and rusticate; forget 'Catcher!
Steve
But would Catcher forget them? She wouldn't want them just hanging out with an idle army...
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 23:24:53 +0100
From: "Marcin Welnicki" <szyderca@poczta.onet.pl>
Subject: Odp: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) SPOILER on Soldiers Live
>
>
>
> Another choice altogher: Just lay in crops in the erstwhile Shadowland
> and rusticate; forget 'Catcher!
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> But would Catcher forget them? She wouldn't want them just hanging out
with an idle army...
>
> At the time the Company was at the Grove of Doom( just before the battle
with Mogaba) Catcher was not a problem.
Mocker
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 17:24:14 -0600
From: Steve Harris <harrissg@SLU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) SPOILER on Soldiers Live
Wright,
SpoilerSpace
//\/?
/
?
/?
\/?
/
?\
/?\
/?\
/
?
?
/
\]
'/
?
?
'./\
'/
|?
?
?
?\
']/\
'/\
/\
/
\
'/
?
"As for subverting. Again, not an option as Kina was influencing
everyone to
stand against the Company."
And if she'd waited a very little bit, that wouldn't have been a problem
any longer. Maybe she didn't know Croaker was going to take out Kina?
She should have--that's her job as WarLeader. She should have been in
constant communication with him.
"The Companies objective in this was simple...pay back the traitors."
Not a good strategic reason for war--most especially against a hardened target.
"Sleepy had no brown water
navy to blockade the river traffic of Taglios"
Another reason for waiting. If she just *had* to get Taglios, she
should have built up the necessary forces more slowly and more
completely, going back to the Land of Undying Shadows (or whatever) to
hire her mercs only when the time was ripe.
Steve
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Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 17:34:10 -0800
From: "Tim McDowell" <mcdowelt@izzyspizza.com>
Subject: Re: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) SPOILER on Soldiers Live
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Jay DeSimone <jdesimon1@earthlink.net>
To: <glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 1:59 PM
Subject: RE: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) SPOILER on Soldiers Live
>
>
>
> Another choice altogher: Just lay in crops in the erstwhile Shadowland
> and rusticate; forget 'Catcher!
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> But would Catcher forget them? She wouldn't want them just hanging out
with an idle army...
>
By the time of the assault on the city, was not SoulCatcher the prisoner
of the Company? And BooBoo impersonating her with the Goblin-thing.
One of the times Croaker and the wizards went back to the ShadowGate was
to take SoulCatcher to the caves of ice for 'safe' storage.
Tim
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Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 17:28:05 -0800
From: "Tim McDowell" <mcdowelt@izzyspizza.com>
Subject: Re: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) SPOILER on Soldiers Live
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Harris <harrissg@SLU.EDU>
To: <glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) SPOILER on Soldiers Live
> Wright,
>
> SpoilerSpace
>
> //\/?
> /
> ?
> /?
> \/?
> /
> ?\
> /?\
> /?\
> /
> ?
> ?
> /
> \]
> '/
> ?
> ?
> './\
> '/
> |?
> ?
> ?
> ?\
> ']/\
> '/\
> /\
> /
> \
> '/
> ?
>
> "As for subverting. Again, not an option as Kina was influencing
> everyone to
> stand against the Company."
>
> And if she'd waited a very little bit, that wouldn't have been a problem
> any longer. Maybe she didn't know Croaker was going to take out Kina?
> She should have--that's her job as WarLeader. She should have been in
> constant communication with him.
>
> Steve
Croaker commented several times that he did not know what Sleepy had
planned. She was keeping some things very close to her and her general
staff.
Croaker also says that he never told anyone what he was planning. I
believe that at one point he states that even he doesn't know what he's
planning because it's buried so deep.
Tim
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 01:51:05 -0600
From: Stacey Harris <harrissg@slu.edu>
Subject: Re: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) SPOILER on Soldiers Live
Tim,
"Croaker also says that he never told anyone what he was planning. I
believe that at one point he states that even he doesn't know what he's
planning because it's buried so deep."
A fault of Sleepy's: When Croaker had a similar situation with Lady, he
forced her to come clean--own up or go to the 'gators with him and all
the crew. That was one of the ways in which Sleepy did not do her
job--letting Croaker get away with plans of his own, that she was not
privy to.
Steve
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Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 08:54:43 -0500
From: "Wright Frazier" <khelek@cioe.com>
Subject: Re: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) SPOILER on Soldiers Live
> SpoilerSpace
>
> //\/?
> /
> ?
> /?
> \/?
> /
> ?\
> /?\
> /?\
> /
> ?
> ?
> /
> \]
> '/
> ?
> ?
> './\
> '/
> |?
> ?
> ?
> ?\
> ']/\
> '/\
> /\
> /
> \
> '/
> ?
>
> "As for subverting. Again, not an option as Kina was influencing
> everyone to
> stand against the Company."
>
> And if she'd waited a very little bit, that wouldn't have been a problem
> any longer. Maybe she didn't know Croaker was going to take out Kina?
> She should have--that's her job as WarLeader. She should have been in
> constant communication with him.
>
> "The Companies objective in this was simple...pay back the traitors."
>
> Not a good strategic reason for war--most especially against a hardened
target.
>
> "Sleepy had no brown water
> navy to blockade the river traffic of Taglios"
>
> Another reason for waiting. If she just *had* to get Taglios, she
> should have built up the necessary forces more slowly and more
> completely, going back to the Land of Undying Shadows (or whatever) to
> hire her mercs only when the time was ripe.
>
You are missing the point. She did not have the time to wait. Her army was
going home cause its contract was up. It was either do it now, or don't do
it at all.
And revenge wasn't the sole motive for taking Taglios but it was a big one.
In Taglios they had to get:
1) Mogaba
2) Eliminate the threat at their back (Singh raising an army again to come
after them)
3) Get Goblin
It wasn't figured out till fairly late in the game that the Spear was
connected to Goblin, and over his last few years, One-Eye had really attuned
it to Goblin. They needed him and he was in the city.
Wright
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Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 08:56:01 -0500
From: "Wright Frazier" <khelek@cioe.com>
Subject: Re: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) SPOILER on Soldiers Live
> >
> >
> > Another choice altogher: Just lay in crops in the erstwhile Shadowland
> > and rusticate; forget 'Catcher!
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >
> >
> > But would Catcher forget them? She wouldn't want them just hanging out
> with an idle army...
> >
> By the time of the assault on the city, was not SoulCatcher the prisoner
> of the Company? And BooBoo impersonating her with the Goblin-thing.
> One of the times Croaker and the wizards went back to the ShadowGate
was
> to take SoulCatcher to the caves of ice for 'safe' storage.
>
Mogaba would not have left them alone. He only started getting the "lets
get out of dodge" idea when the war started really going against him. Plus
with Kina influencing things, others would have gone after them as well.
Wright
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Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 17:13:50 +0100
From: "Marcin Welnicki" <szyderca@poczta.onet.pl>
Subject: (glencook-fans) Death of another sort
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