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glencook-fans-digest      Monday, August 7 2000      Volume 01 : Number 001




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 15:04:42 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Book Covers (was Alternative Authors)

> > I found Cook from the reverse of this. I've been pushing books for a few
> years
>  > and a customer politely listened to my canned diatribe, then said,
"Well,
> have
>  > you read Cook?" He puts Black Company in my hands. Terrible terrible
cover.
>
>  > The rest of the series is even worse.

The funny part is that Glen first saw Keith Berdak's artwork at a convention,
and loved it and asked him to do the covers, because he felt that they
correctly captured the feel of the series.  Don't know that I agree with that
sentiment....

MWS

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 16:59:04 -0700
From: "Sam Felice" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) SL  no spoilers

I just want to say:  Why don't any book stores in LA seem to have this =
book yet?!  I thought "I'll just wait 'till it hits the bookstores instead =
of ordering it from Amazon.  It'll get to the stores about the same time =
Amazon could get it to me, and with shipping, it'll probably cost near the =
same.  I'll support my local bookstore".  But I'm now finished with all my =
reading that I was going to do up until now, and I WANT THIS BOOK!.

Sorry.  Just had to vent. :)


>>> [e-mail] 08/05/00 00:14 AM >>>
I loved it.  Old scores settled.  Deserving butts kicked.  Numerous plot =
lines
resolved.  Some welcome plot twists.  I loved it.

It will be tough to write a sequel in the immediate time frame that =
follows.
Easier to find rabbits in hats than villians in the remaining haystack.

Lee Childs

Eric Herrmann wrote:

> > Is anyone else who has finished SL, just sitting around wondering what =
to do
> > next?
>
> I've exchanged reviews with several people already. So I know there are
> people who have finished. I don't know why they haven't posted to the =
list
> yet.
>
> No need to be timid people. Just put SL in the subject and it is assumed =
to
> be a spoiler. Just keep the rest of the subject clean and you can put
> anything in the body.
>
> Come on. I've been waiting 4 months to talk about this book.
> I'm giving it till the weekend and then I'm spoiling everything. <g>
>
> Eric Herrmann
> <[e-mail]>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 16:03:59 -0500
From: "anthony palermo" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Alternative Authors (was Yesssssssssss!)

Very well said, Lich.


Tony
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Lich <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 10:18 PM
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Alternative Authors (was Yesssssssssss!)


> That's too bad Christopher.  Cook is definitely the best in the genre, but
> there is other fantasy out there that is worth your time and money to
read.
> (Not much, but some.)
>
> I ran into a kid once who I discussed a couple fantasy books with.  As
> usual, I tried to introduce him to Cook.  He responded, " I only read
> TSR/Forgotten Realms books."  I didn't know whether to laugh at him or cry
> at his ignorance.  Ultimately, I settled for my default reaction of
ignoring
> him.
>
> The moral of this story is, no you will never find another writer out
there
> who writes just the way Cook does at the same level of quality.  However,
if
> you try some others besides what you've already experienced (Cook), I
> guarantee that you will find a couple authors who have their own style
(some
> similar, some dissimilar) that after reading, you will discover that you
> enjoy.
>
> Now how do I get down from this Soapbox. . .
>
>
> >
> > Or, just say I'm in the minority here, that this really is what people
> > want to talk about now that SL is out, and I'll shut the yap on my
> > face and we can go on talking about books I never intend to read.
> >
> > christopher....
> >
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 19:47:16 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Don't They Proofread? (semi-spoiler?)

In a message dated 8/4/00 5:43:29 PM, [e-mail] writes:

>On a similar note, am I nuts or are the characters of Widowmaker and
>Lifetaker reversed?  I thought Croaker was Widowmaker and Lady was
>Lifetaker, but early on in SL the roles a reversed?

They must have changed, since when Croaker comes at Mogaba all decked
out in fire and fury Mogaba says, "Lady?"

Unless Lady's not the knock-out she usually described as and Croaker has
a figure he's been hiding, I think it must be the fact that they swapped.
Not sure why.

christopher....

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 19:47:19 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) SL (SPOILERS)

In a message dated 8/6/00 3:47:29 PM, [e-mail] writes:

>    I finished the book yesterday. While I'll agree with you all on some
>things (happy to have Croaker back behind the pen), I don't know if this
>book was the masterpiece some think. I love Glen Cook. I'll buy whatever
>he puts out next. However, I think this episode was missing something.
>Don't get me wrong, I liked the plot twists and I loved how the series
>was resolved. I just felt like the climax to the finale was hurried. All
>of a sudden everyone starts dying. Not much detail is given, they're just
>toast.

I had this problem. I like this book beter than Water Sleeps, but not as well
as Bleak Seasons. Go figure.

There was a line in this one that went something like, "This girl who had been
with him for less than a year felt more like a daughter to him than the real
daughter in the next room," and I remember thinking, "A year has gone by?"
Time was so compressed here that it felt like they did the whole book in a
weekend. And the battles kept bothering me. They set out with what, 8,000
men? Mogaba on a bad day could take care of that many. Okay, so his army
was only armed with hammers and ice picks, but still.

And the way they kept bopping back and forth between Taglios and Khatovar
and the Unnamed Fortress. Croaker, as an old man, covered more miles in this
book than in all the others. I kept expecting him to make a trip to Charm.

And the deaths were annoying, amazing, disturbing, and aftger a while,
numbing.
Otto and Hagop in the first line as throw-away deaths? After a certain point I
didn't want to get attached to any new characters since I didn't know if they
would be around in two pages or not, and I wanted to distance myself from
any characters I did care about because I saw the writing on the wall, This,
to
me, wass why Sleepy's death didn't upset me. By that time I was wondering why
she hadn't died yet.

Croaker behind the pen again was fun and fine, but he was a dirty old man,
falling apart, pompus and fat. Not exactly the guy I grew to like in past
books.
And characters I really did like, such a Murgen weren't in the book enough.

And we got the politics of two worlds, but not enough time on either t sort
out what was important. Tobo bugged me, since he's kind of like a traveling
Plain of Fear. Now there's a fight for you, Tobo against Father Tree. How
many Menhirs does it take to kill a giant shadow duck?

I didn't care for the redemption of Mogaba at all, educate a black man and
watch him realize the errors of his ways, hell, he'll even start keeping "The
Books of Mogaba." I liked the fact that this bastard could be munching on
long pig knowing his way was best. This doubting touchy-feely guy wasn't
Mogaba. And doesn't he ever learn? How's he end his life? Betraying another
employer. Oh yeah, but he was doing it for his new found principles.

Cook seemed to take some easy paths with this book, and killing characters
is an easy way to tug the heart strings. Goblin coming back as a bad guy
didn't even throw me. In Cook's world dying and coming back seems to be
the one unforgivable sin. Raven did it and look how he turned out, the Taken
turned it into an art-form, so of course Goblin will be Kina's toy.

I was hoping that the Lance of Pasion would have quickened Kina. Stabbing
a god with another god's pizzle, sounds like epic legend to me.

Lady was sickening in this book. I wanted someone to put her out just to
end the simpering.

Naryan and Booboo have never been anything other than professional
prisioners. The most upsetting part of Booboo's death to me was that
she dies a virgin.

So what did kill that child wizard and infect Soulcatcher?

Did like Arkana and her sister, but they were nearly interchangable. I kept
having to think, "Oh, she was the one who was raped", a fact that Cook
brings up  nearly everytime she's mentioned.

The capes were right out of the movie Spawn. The posts were just plain
confusing. Like witches on explosive brooms.

This book is not a stand-alone. Can't imagine starting here.

Well, I'm done dumping for now, just wanted to let you know that you weren't
alone. I think this book rocks, don't get me wrong, Cook's worst is still good
and this is far from bad. I loved it, it just does have some weaknesses.

christopher....

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 19:33:55 -0500
From: "Jordan Raney" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) SL:spoilers don't read unless you are finished

Spoilers of course:



- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Herrmann" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) SL:spoilers don't read unless you are finished


> Spoiler warning! Turn back know oh faint of heart!
>
> > I'm ready to discuss.  Finished this morning.  I have
> > to say that the ending was quite a suprise.
> >
> > As the grim reaper cut through the company, I became
> > concerned that there wouldn't be enough characters to
> > continue the series.  I was real concerned that the
> > death of Croaker, Glen's symbolic self in the series,
> > would foretell the end of the series.
> >
> > However, as it stands, Glen has quite a bit of grist
> > for the mill.  Croaker-God guardian of the plain with
> > numerous worlds unexplored.  Lady, juiced up and ready
> > to go.  Soulcatcher and Booboo on ice.  A freezer full
> > of old, nasty personages of unknown origin, attitudes,
> > talents and trouble.  Bad-ass, brain-damaged Tobo, who
> > is more interesting than wonderboy-Tobo.  Giggling hot
> > blond mages. Suvrin as a new Captain of a company of
> > kick-ass veteran soldiers.
> >
> > I really hated to see the old folk go (Sleepy! you had
> > so much potential!).  I'm very glad that Glen appears
> > to have interest in continuing the series.  Had
> > Croaker taken a dirt nap I was pretty sure that the
> > series was dead.  However, as things are now there
> > seems to be a real potential for a continuation of the
> > series.
> >
> > If Glen ever becomes interested in pursuing other
> > works, I'd love to see a collected works where other
> > writers would be allowed to write Black Company short
> > stories.  Each would begin with "in those days the
> > Company was in the service of ...."
>
> Croaker is dead. Stick a fork in it, this series is done.
>
> Glen symbolicly killed his symbolic self. No, he apparently couldn't
> physically kill Croaker, so he found a compromise. Croaker's body runs off
> to enjoy the physical pleasures so long denied Shivetya. And Croaker gets
to
> explore history and be the planet's resident voyeur. Not to mention be
> Lady's source of power.
>
> But then again no one knows the exchange happened beyond the Voroshk
twins.
>
> Everything that was black is now white. Mogaba isn't evil he just has
honor.
> Soulcatcher is the misunderstood big sister who really loves her younger
> sibling. Kina is a good goddess. Seems everyone had to be redeemed in the
> end.
>
> And what was the answer to Croaker's question on page 482? And why was it
so
> critical? And when did Croaker first broach the deal with Shivetya?
>
> Eric Herrmann
> <[e-mail]>


About "the big question" -

I don't know exactly why it is such a big deal, but it has to be assumed
that if shivetya would have given up his role without someone to take his
place that the plain would have ceased to exist or at least lost its
functionality.  Evidently that is why the Nef were so upset.  At least from
what I could gather, it was because of the answer shivetya would have given
to that question that Croaker decided he had to take that role.

Croaker wanted to keep his promise to shivetya and maybe this was the only
way to do it and to keep the plain intact.  Also the incentives for croaker
weren't so bad....

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 12:44:42 -0700
From: "JM Rhodes" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) Alternative Authors (was Yesssssssssss!)

Personally, I don't mind the recommendations... even though the same authors
come up every time, most of which I am already familiar with.  But that's
because I've been reading SF/F for 25 years, and not much gets past me.

However, not everyone shares my experience, and I am more than happy to
offer a suggestion or two.  Add to that the fact that every time the topic
comes up, there are always a few recommendations that are new, and a couple
of those have even led me toward new books.

Since Mr. Cook doesn't seem capable of keeping up with my reading pace of
15 - 20 books a year, a recommended reading list might not be a bad idea...
then limit new recommendations to what isn't already on the list.

Or save everyone a lot of work, and let the thread come up a couple of times
a year.... like any other thread, if you don't need it, don't read it.
There is no law saying you have to read every message posted to the list.  I
have no problem reading headers and deciding what I'm interested in or not.

but maybe that's just me.

John

- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail]
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of
[e-mail]
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 8:42 AM
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Alternative Authors (was Yesssssssssss!)



In a message dated 8/5/00 10:22:24 AM, [e-mail] writes:

>That's too bad Christopher.  Cook is definitely the best in the genre,
>but there is other fantasy out there that is worth your time and money to
read.
>(Not much, but some.)

Don't get me wrong here, I love other authors. I have a collection of about
3,000 books, 1,500 of which are SF. Cook's not even my favorite author,
but I'm not on this list to discuss those authors. I guess maybe because my
"to read" pile is larger than what I can read in the next 5 years (assuming
I never bought a new book, which is a bad assumption) I don't need the
suggestions.

I live for books. After basic bills they are my biggest expense. I tithe to
the
god of books. I read 250 pages a day. I believe in libraries and hope to own
one
someday.

I guess I was just trying to remind people this is a Cook list, and not a
Brust
or Moorcock list. Both these authors are great, just I'd rather people made
references to Cook when it comes to mentioning them. It wouldn't be hard
to discuss the use of unreliable narrators in Cook and Brust or the use
of anti-heroes in all three (a convention Moorcock pioneered).

But again, if I'm in the minority, let the recommends flow.

christopher....

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 16:05:44 -0500
From: "Jordan Raney" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) SL (SPOILERS)

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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    charset="iso-8859-1"
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Don wrote:
"Survin is just ...well.. a guy. There was nothing endearing about the =
guy. When you first meet the Captain in 'The Black Company' he has his =
feet on a desk sleeping and he's irked that Croaker doesn't follow the =
chain of command. There was something that sucked you in to the =
Brotherhood. This is just one instance I'm choosing to mention. I guess =
what I'm trying to say is... I just never connected to any of the =
characters. What I loved about Cook to begin with was his characters."

I know exactly what you mean, but at least to me, your complaint seems =
more valid for Water Sleeps than for SL.  That's the reason I liked SL =
so much: because now Croaker, an actual interesting character, is back =
as annalist.  I know that Water Sleeps had One Eye and Goblin, but I =
don't even consider that really, because they were portrayed as being so =
old, useless, and close to death that they never had much of an active =
role.  They didn't even squabble all that much!  I never liked the =
sleepy character so that's probably why I disliked water sleeps so much =
more than SL.

Don wrote:   =20
    "Man, I feel like a heretic. Somebody take me to the cliffside and =
toss me off. Blasphemy! The spark in the books is just dimmer now. I =
though it had come back with Water Sleeps. I felt it there, but not in =
this one. Croaker's 'daughters' were nice but they don't replace Hagop, =
Elmo, Silent, Raven, The Old Man (original), and certainly not One Eye =
or Goblin."

Here's where I have to disagree a little.  I do agree that the "spark" =
has been getting dimmer in the books, but for me SL brought it back (not =
to the degree the first 3 books had, but definitely moreso than the four =
through eight).  I did enjoy Water Sleeps, but only because of the =
questions that were answered (and seeing some characters you can =
actually care about getting rescued from their slumber), not because of =
its annalist and main characters.  I DO agree with you that no =
characters in SL (no characters in ANY of the Books of the South or =
Glittering Stone) compared with your list of "Elmo, Silent, Raven, The =
Old Man (original), and One Eye or Goblin.

Don wrote:
    "I'm going to read the book again... later. I might like it the =
second time better. Anyway, sorry about the  length. Eric I haven't =
heard if you like the book or not. Let us know."

Don't worry about the length of the post...I'm surprised there hasn't =
been more discussion on SL thus far.  I read through it quite quickly =
and figured by the time I would finish I'd have an inbox full of SL =
messages....

I'm waiting,

JR

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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Don wrote:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"Survin is just ...well.. a guy. There =
was nothing=20
endearing about the guy. When you first meet the Captain in 'The Black =
Company'=20
he has his feet on a desk sleeping and he's irked that Croaker doesn't =
follow=20
the chain of command. There was something that sucked you in to the =
Brotherhood.=20
This is just one instance I'm choosing to mention. I guess what I'm =
trying to=20
say is... I just never connected to any of the characters. What I loved =
about=20
Cook to begin with was his characters."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I know exactly what you mean, but at least to me, =
your=20
complaint seems more valid for Water Sleeps than for SL.  That's =
the reason=20
I liked SL so much: because now Croaker, an actual interesting =
character, is=20
back as annalist.  I know that Water Sleeps had One Eye and Goblin, =
but I=20
don't even consider that really, because they were portrayed as being so =
old,=20
useless, and close to death that they never had much of an active =
role. =20
They didn't even squabble all that much!  I never liked the sleepy=20
character so that's probably why I disliked water sleeps so much more =
than=20
SL.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Don wrote:    =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>    "Man, I feel like a =
heretic.=20
Somebody take me to the cliffside and toss me off. Blasphemy! The spark =
in the=20
books is just dimmer now. I though it had come back with Water Sleeps. I =
felt it=20
there, but not in this one. Croaker's 'daughters' were nice but they =
don't=20
replace Hagop, Elmo, Silent, Raven, The Old Man (original), and =
certainly not=20
One Eye or Goblin."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Here's where I have to disagree a little.  I do =
agree=20
that the "spark" has been getting dimmer in the books, but for me SL =
brought it=20
back (not to the degree the first 3 books had, but definitely moreso =
than the=20
four through eight).  I did enjoy Water Sleeps, but only because of =
the=20
questions that were answered (and seeing some characters you can =
actually care=20
about getting rescued from their slumber), not because of its annalist =
and main=20
characters.  I DO agree with you that no characters in SL (no =
characters in=20
ANY of the Books of the South or Glittering Stone) compared with your =
list of=20
"Elmo, Silent, Raven, The Old Man (original), and One Eye or=20
Goblin.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Don wrote:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>    "I'm going to read =
the book=20
again... later. I might like it the second time better. Anyway, sorry =
about=20
the  length. Eric I haven't heard if you like the book or not. Let =
us=20
know."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Don't worry about the length of the post...I'm =
surprised there=20
hasn't been more discussion on SL thus far.  I read through it =
quite=20
quickly and figured by the time I would finish I'd have an inbox full of =
SL=20
messages....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I'm waiting,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>JR</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 17:14:34 -0700
From: "JM Rhodes" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) SL  no spoilers

I noticed the same thing... LA is Cookless!  I have a copy on order at the
Barnes & Noble close to my home, but still nothing... at this point, I'll
buy the first copy that shows up anywhere in the general vicinity...

John

- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail]
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Sam Felice
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 4:59 PM
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) SL no spoilers


I just want to say:  Why don't any book stores in LA seem to have this book
yet?!  I thought "I'll just wait 'till it hits the bookstores instead of
ordering it from Amazon.  It'll get to the stores about the same time Amazon
could get it to me, and with shipping, it'll probably cost near the same.
I'll support my local bookstore".  But I'm now finished with all my reading
that I was going to do up until now, and I WANT THIS BOOK!.

Sorry.  Just had to vent. :)


>>> [e-mail] 08/05/00 00:14 AM >>>
I loved it.  Old scores settled.  Deserving butts kicked.  Numerous plot
lines
resolved.  Some welcome plot twists.  I loved it.

It will be tough to write a sequel in the immediate time frame that follows.
Easier to find rabbits in hats than villians in the remaining haystack.

Lee Childs

Eric Herrmann wrote:

> > Is anyone else who has finished SL, just sitting around wondering what
to do
> > next?
>
> I've exchanged reviews with several people already. So I know there are
> people who have finished. I don't know why they haven't posted to the list
> yet.
>
> No need to be timid people. Just put SL in the subject and it is assumed
to
> be a spoiler. Just keep the rest of the subject clean and you can put
> anything in the body.
>
> Come on. I've been waiting 4 months to talk about this book.
> I'm giving it till the weekend and then I'm spoiling everything. <g>
>
> Eric Herrmann
> <[e-mail]>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 23:22:47 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) SL  no spoilers

In a message dated 8/5/00 7:20:37 PM, [e-mail] writes:

>I noticed the same thing... LA is Cookless!  I have a copy on order at
>the Barnes & Noble close to my home, but still nothing... at this point, I'll
>buy the first copy that shows up anywhere in the general vicinity...

Just have to say that this amuses me highly. I live in the middle of Iowa.
A place where I have to drive an hour to see a Woody Allen movie (the
one week it plays in the state). I had to go to Minneapolis to see Blair
Witch (to be fair this was in limited release at the time). American
Beauty was second run by the time I saw it. Hell, somewhere in Iowa
Star Wars is probably playing for the first time (and I don't mean the
special edition).

This surprises me, course I guess we're talking Cook and not Harry
Potter.

Anyway, I've had my copy almost a week. Maybe you should move to
podunk and you could get a copy.

christopher....

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 15:10:25 -0700
From: Sam Roberts <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) Alternative Authors (was Yesssssssssss!)

I think the point was (and please excuse me if I'm misinterpreting) that the
kid refused to consider ANY authors if they weren't TSR books.  That's the
truly sad thing, as if TSR was the only producer of quality or interesting
fantasy.  Hopefully it's just a phase and he'll grow out of it.  :-}

Sam

- -----Original Message-----
From: Darin McGee [mailto:[e-mail]]
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 3:07 PM
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Alternative Authors (was Yesssssssssss!)


 I don't think you're being fair to TSR fans.  I tend to read anything that
catches my interest and at times that has been books by Salvatore, Weis &
Hickman.  I know a few people whose reading material is almost entirely TSR
and at first I thought they were simply restricting themselves but I've
learned over time that they prefer TSR because they want to read about a
world that becomes VERY detailed.  It's a personal choice and doesn't
reflect ignorance.  Just because YOU think that Cook is the greatest thing
since sliced bread (and so do I for that matter..) doesn't mean everyone
else has to.

Darin

- --

>
>I ran into a kid once who I discussed a couple fantasy books with.  As
>usual, I tried to introduce him to Cook.  He responded, " I only read
>TSR/Forgotten Realms books."  I didn't know whether to laugh at him or cry
>at his ignorance.  Ultimately, I settled for my default reaction of
ignoring
>him.
>
>


Send your favorite photo with any online greeting!
http://www.whowhere.lycos.com/redirects/americangreetings.rdct

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 20:50:04 -0700
From: Lee Childs <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) SL  no spoilers

- --------------151F77FC6DE68A6492B2AE7D
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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John,
    I got my copy from Barnes and Noble Aug 1st as a special order.  I learned
the hard way that when Barnes and Noble does a special order, they have to put a
'hold' on books not yet in print.  My Soldiers Live order fell out of the system
for that reason.  I had to have them reinput it.
    The Barnes and Noble sales help are somewhat better able to handle this kind
of order because they had similar problems with the advance orders of Harry
Potter.
    Check that status of your order.  Go in person and make sure you see them
personally check the computer.  Their poor training was a dissapointment to me
but I did get results in the end.
Lee Childs

JM Rhodes wrote:

> I noticed the same thing... LA is Cookless!  I have a copy on order at the
> Barnes & Noble close to my home, but still nothing... at this point, I'll
> buy the first copy that shows up anywhere in the general vicinity...
>
> John
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Sam Felice
> Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 4:59 PM
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) SL no spoilers
>
> I just want to say:  Why don't any book stores in LA seem to have this book
> yet?!  I thought "I'll just wait 'till it hits the bookstores instead of
> ordering it from Amazon.  It'll get to the stores about the same time Amazon
> could get it to me, and with shipping, it'll probably cost near the same.
> I'll support my local bookstore".  But I'm now finished with all my reading
> that I was going to do up until now, and I WANT THIS BOOK!.
>
> Sorry.  Just had to vent. :)
>
> >>> [e-mail] 08/05/00 00:14 AM >>>
> I loved it.  Old scores settled.  Deserving butts kicked.  Numerous plot
> lines
> resolved.  Some welcome plot twists.  I loved it.
>
> It will be tough to write a sequel in the immediate time frame that follows.
> Easier to find rabbits in hats than villians in the remaining haystack.
>
> Lee Childs
>
> Eric Herrmann wrote:
>
> > > Is anyone else who has finished SL, just sitting around wondering what
> to do
> > > next?
> >
> > I've exchanged reviews with several people already. So I know there are
> > people who have finished. I don't know why they haven't posted to the list
> > yet.
> >
> > No need to be timid people. Just put SL in the subject and it is assumed
> to
> > be a spoiler. Just keep the rest of the subject clean and you can put
> > anything in the body.
> >
> > Come on. I've been waiting 4 months to talk about this book.
> > I'm giving it till the weekend and then I'm spoiling everything. <g>
> >
> > Eric Herrmann
> > <[e-mail]>



- --------------151F77FC6DE68A6492B2AE7D
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<HTML>
John,
<BR>    I got my copy from Barnes and Noble Aug 1st as a
special order.  I learned the hard way that when Barnes and Noble
does a special order, they have to put a 'hold' on books not yet in print.
My <U>Soldiers Live</U> order fell out of the system for that reason.
I had to have them reinput it.
<BR>    The Barnes and Noble sales help are somewhat better
able to handle this kind of order because they had similar problems with
the advance orders of Harry Potter.
<BR>    Check that status of your order.  Go in person
and make sure you see them personally check the computer.  Their poor
training was a dissapointment to me but I did get results in the end.
<BR>Lee Childs

<P>JM Rhodes wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>I noticed the same thing... LA is Cookless!
I have a copy on order at the
<BR>Barnes & Noble close to my home, but still nothing... at this point,
I'll
<BR>buy the first copy that shows up anywhere in the general vicinity...

<P>John

<P>-----Original Message-----
<BR>From: [e-mail]
<BR>[<A HREF="mailto:[e-mail]">mailto:[e-mail]</A>]On
Behalf Of Sam Felice
<BR>Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 4:59 PM
<BR>To: [e-mail]
<BR>Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) SL no spoilers

<P>I just want to say:  Why don't any book stores in LA seem to have
this book
<BR>yet?!  I thought "I'll just wait 'till it hits the bookstores
instead of
<BR>ordering it from Amazon.  It'll get to the stores about the same
time Amazon
<BR>could get it to me, and with shipping, it'll probably cost near the
same.
<BR>I'll support my local bookstore".  But I'm now finished with all
my reading
<BR>that I was going to do up until now, and I WANT THIS BOOK!.

<P>Sorry.  Just had to vent. :)

<P>>>> [e-mail] 08/05/00 00:14 AM >>>
<BR>I loved it.  Old scores settled.  Deserving butts kicked.
Numerous plot
<BR>lines
<BR>resolved.  Some welcome plot twists.  I loved it.

<P>It will be tough to write a sequel in the immediate time frame that
follows.
<BR>Easier to find rabbits in hats than villians in the remaining haystack.

<P>Lee Childs

<P>Eric Herrmann wrote:

<P>> > Is anyone else who has finished SL, just sitting around wondering
what
<BR>to do
<BR>> > next?
<BR>>
<BR>> I've exchanged reviews with several people already. So I know there
are
<BR>> people who have finished. I don't know why they haven't posted to
the list
<BR>> yet.
<BR>>
<BR>> No need to be timid people. Just put SL in the subject and it is
assumed
<BR>to
<BR>> be a spoiler. Just keep the rest of the subject clean and you can
put
<BR>> anything in the body.
<BR>>
<BR>> Come on. I've been waiting 4 months to talk about this book.
<BR>> I'm giving it till the weekend and then I'm spoiling everything.
<g>
<BR>>
<BR>> Eric Herrmann
<BR>> <[e-mail]></BLOCKQUOTE>
 </HTML>

- --------------151F77FC6DE68A6492B2AE7D--

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 18:36:23 -0600
From: Eric Herrmann <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) SL (SPOILERS)

> I'm going to read the book again... later. I might like it the second time
> better. Anyway, sorry about the  length. Eric I haven't heard if you like the
> book or not. Let us know.

To review,

In 311 pages of Shadow Games (Taglios 101), The Black Company comes half-way
(or more) across the world to Taglios. From Taglios they battle at Ghoja
Crossing and take Dejagore only to "lose" Dejagore and Croaker in the end.

In 346 pages of Dreams of Steel (Deceiver Cult 101), From Taglios Lady
fights its way back to Dejagore and liberates Dejagore. Croaker frees
himself from Soulcathcer and Booboo is kidnapped.

In 316 pages of Bleak Seasons (Nyueng Bao 101), From Taglios we relive the
siege and liberation of Dejagore. Did anything else happen?

In 470 pages of She Is the Darkness (Shadar? 101), From Taglios Croaker and
Lady fight down to the Glittering Plain only to get caught by Soulcatcher.

In 470 pages of Water Sleeps (Gunni 101), From Taglios Sleepy fights down to
the Glittering Plain to rescue Lady and Croaker and crosses over to The Land
of Unknown Shadows.

In 496 pages of Soldiers Live (Voroshk 101), From The Land of Unknown
Shadows Sleepy fights up to liberate Taglios.

Total = 2409 pages. (The Books of the North 955 pages)

I didn't particularly like the Glittering Stone books at all. But I suppose
that is because I was reading them expecting something different and it took
so very long for them to be published.

I expected a nice tight run to Khatavor to find out the Why of the Black
Company. Shadow Games would have gotten us to Dejagore, Dreams of Steel to
Overlook, and Glittering Stone to Khatavor and the death of Kina. Done in a
1000 pages.

I think the real story would have better if it had been presented as two
trilogies and lost about 400 pages. The first trilogy handling the Shadow
Masters and the second trilogy handling Khatavor and Kina.

Reading them thinking that Khatavor was the destination and then not getting
there each time and starting each book at square one back in Taglios was an
exercise in frustration for 10 years. I got really tired of Taglios.

In reality, Khatavor meant very little to nothing. The real story is Kina
and the half dozen perspectives or mythologies surrounding her.

What is the truth about Kina? What is the truth about the Black Company?
These questions are each answered differently by each book. Somewhere in
each book someone explains Kina and the Black Company which mostly
contradicts all the other books.

Knowing now that the story really revolves around the battle of wits between
Kina and Shivetya and not Khatavor, I think in rereading them I'll enjoy
them more as I look for the clues of this struggle.

The Books of the South and Glittering Stone are not like the Books of the
North. They are much more like Dread Empire. Dread Empire is world building
by retelling the same event from all the different perspectives.

It took 2500 pages to explain Kina and the why of war and death in the
South. Perhaps if Glen had the 7 more books of Dread Empire he intended we'd
understand the Fates and the Norns.

So did I answer the question? Probably not.

I didn't find the ending satisfying. I didn't like how the characters kept
dieing. I didn't like how Khatavor was handled. Croaker was missing that
spark. Lady and Soulcatcher were non-existant. Croaker was the only
three-dimensional character, everyone else was flat. There wasn't a good
climax. The book carried on in a monotonous, unemotional style.

I liked the book in that it is done, the loose ends are mostly tied, and
most questions are answered.

I reserve the right to change my opinions and I eagerly await something new.

Eric Herrmann
<[e-mail]>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 21:18:44 -0500
From: "David George" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (glencook-fans) SL Spoilers, questions answered maybe, questions asked

Snipped here since the messages are getting long.

Jordan Raney asked:

> I don't quite understand that whole "barrier" at the bottom of the
nameless fortress, leading to kina's lair.  How come
>Blade couldn't get through it after trying so long, and then Sleepy easily
walked through?

I think Sleepy walked through easily because Kina was ready to release the
Goblin creature into their midst at that point.  But not before.  So the
barrier was up, then it was down and they all passed through.

>Also, did it ever explain what happened to Sahra?  It seemed like she was
just not there, and we never got a reason
>why or where she went.

It never did.  We are to assume she went off somewhere and died, I guess.
Maybe she spirit walked into the ether so she'd be ready to hound Tobo into
good behavior when the time came.  Left her body behind for good.

As to the "easy" deaths, this is something Cook has done before, in other
books, and I mentioned in a different post how much like Dread Empire some
of these battles were.  It is good and it is bad, in my opinion.  Good
because the reader can't count on anything.  No guarantees, just like life,
it builds suspense.  Bad because there were so many bad pennies that kept
turning up again and again since the company came south of the sea of
torrents.  We started to think no one could get snuffed.  Surprise!

I agree with you about this book being great, though.  It was great to have
Croaker as annalist, although I like the other annalists, Croaker is just a
great voice.  I could not disagree more with your dismissal of Sleepy as
boring, though.

But now that I'm thinking about this, does Croaker get to be Shivetya
forever or only as long as his (Croaker's) human body remains alive?  "So
Shivetya got to become a mortal for as long as Croaker's body would last and
Croaker got to be a big, old, wise, sea dragon swimming all around in the
ocean of history." (p.495).  You can read that either way, I guess, and it
seems sort of nitpicky now that I look at it.  I'm sort of assuming that
once it got oriented, Croaker's body (driven by Shivetya) lit out for parts
unknown.  At the author's convenience, should the story pick up again,
Croaker/Shivetya will either be there, floating in history and serving as a
magical Duracell for Lady, or he will have gone on.

DG

------------------------------

End of glencook-fans-digest V1 #1
*********************************

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