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From: schew@interzone.com (Steve Chew)
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Monthly Mailing List Info
Date: 01 Apr 2002 17:08:48 -0500 (EST)
>
>The Glen Cook Fan Page celebrated it's 6th year online with 73,625 total
>hits to date. And this mailing list celebrated it's 3rd year online with
>3508 messages. Thank you for visiting and participating.
>
Cool, how many people are on the mailing list now?
Steve
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visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Eric Herrmann <shpshftr@xmission.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Monthly Mailing List Info
Date: 01 Apr 2002 15:32:49 -0700
>> The Glen Cook Fan Page celebrated it's 6th year online with 73,625 total
>> hits to date. And this mailing list celebrated it's 3rd year online with
>> 3508 messages. Thank you for visiting and participating.
>>
> Cool, how many people are on the mailing list now?
The mailing list has held fairly constant to between 195 to 215 people.
There has been nearly 500 unique subscribers over the years.
The vast majority have tended to lurk.
--
Eric Herrmann
<shpshftr@xmission.com>
<owner-glencook-fans@xmission.com>
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visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David Bricker <qmorris@nasw.org>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Monthly Mailing List Info
Date: 01 Apr 2002 18:23:19 -0500
'lo gents.
I'm one of the newest unique subscribers, then! (I joined yesterday.)
I'm a big fan of the first half of Black Company books and, inspired by the
book series' obvious influence on the Bungie creators of Myth: The Fallen
Lords and Myth: Soulblighter, edited a page a while back comparing the two:
http://myth.bungie.org/legends/relics/blackcompany.html
Anyway, cheers and thanks for existing!
David Bricker
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visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: LadyRavven@aol.com
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Monthly Mailing List Info
Date: 01 Apr 2002 20:21:04 EST
I guess I am as well..however, I dont mean to lurk..lol...life is just sooo hecktic sometimes..lol
The lady Ravven
In a message dated Mon, 1 Apr 2002 6:30:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, David Bricker <qmorris@nasw.org> writes:
>
> 'lo gents.
>
> I'm one of the newest unique subscribers, then! (I joined yesterday.)
>
> I'm a big fan of the first half of Black Company books and, inspired by the
> book series' obvious influence on the Bungie creators of Myth: The Fallen
> Lords and Myth: Soulblighter, edited a page a while back comparing the two:
>
> http://myth.bungie.org/legends/relics/blackcompany.html
>
> Anyway, cheers and thanks for existing!
>
> David Bricker
>
>
> =======================================================================
> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
=======================================================================
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Joe Murphy <bagaele@netzero.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Monthly Mailing List Info
Date: 01 Apr 2002 23:04:16 -0800
David Bricker wrote:
> 'lo gents.
>
> ........book series' obvious influence on the Bungie creators of Myth: The
> Fallen
> Lords and Myth:.........
> http://myth.bungie.org/legends/relics/blackcompany.html
>
> David Bricker
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
So what we have here is absolutely no creativity whatsoever. I find it highly
distastefull when the works of an author are blatantly copied and no credit
(or money) is given to the one who made it happen. I certainly hope that Glens
laywers find this myth crap and sue the pants off them.
=======================================================================
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visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David Bricker <qmorris@nasw.org>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Monthly Mailing List Info
Date: 01 Apr 2002 23:14:19 -0500
> From: Joe Murphy <bagaele@netzero.com>
> Reply-To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com
> Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 23:04:16 -0800
> To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com
> Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Monthly Mailing List Info
>
>
> So what we have here is absolutely no creativity whatsoever. I find it highly
> distastefull when the works of an author are blatantly copied and no credit
> (or money) is given to the one who made it happen. I certainly hope that Glens
> laywers find this myth crap and sue the pants off them.
Please tell me that what we have here isn't typical of this listserv...
because if it is, I'm unsubscribing right now.
=======================================================================
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visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David George <d.s.george@verizon.net>
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) Monthly Mailing List Info
Date: 01 Apr 2002 22:24:19 -0600
There's a listserv archive on the website. go read some of
it and decide for yourself. happy motoring.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 10:14 PM
> From: Joe Murphy <bagaele@netzero.com>
> Reply-To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com
> Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 23:04:16 -0800
> To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com
> Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Monthly Mailing List Info
>
>
> So what we have here is absolutely no creativity
whatsoever. I find it highly
> distastefull when the works of an author are blatantly
copied and no credit
> (or money) is given to the one who made it happen. I
certainly hope that Glens
> laywers find this myth crap and sue the pants off them.
Please tell me that what we have here isn't typical of this
listserv...
because if it is, I'm unsubscribing right now.
========================================================
===============
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list,
visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
=======================================================================
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visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Monthly Mailing List Info
Date: 02 Apr 2002 00:22:33 -0400
Joe Murphy wrote:
>
> David Bricker wrote:
>
> > 'lo gents.
> >
> > ........book series' obvious influence on the Bungie creators of Myth: The
> > Fallen
> > Lords and Myth:.........
> > http://myth.bungie.org/legends/relics/blackcompany.html
> >
> > David Bricker
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> So what we have here is absolutely no creativity whatsoever. I find it highly
> distastefull when the works of an author are blatantly copied and no credit
> (or money) is given to the one who made it happen. I certainly hope that Glens
> laywers find this myth crap and sue the pants off them.
>
Alas, the idea of the Dark Lord (or Lady) rising with his minions
predates Cook. For example, when asked for a quick summary of the first
book I often say "Think of a merc company working for the bad guys in
LotR" and people know what I'm talking about.
The game doesn't use the same names as the books. There are 6 or 7
Fallen Lords, not the Ten who were Taken - I could keep going but let's
just say the two are different enough that you can't legally say one is
linked to the other. Inspired by perhaps, but not a direct copy.
On the plus side, I've heard some people have picked up the Black
Company books because they heard there was a link to the game - which
means that Cook made some money indirectly.
Richard
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visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Monthly Mailing List Info
Date: 02 Apr 2002 00:35:16 -0400
David Bricker wrote:
>
> > From: Joe Murphy <bagaele@netzero.com>
> > Reply-To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com
> > Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 23:04:16 -0800
> > To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com
> > Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Monthly Mailing List Info
> >
> >
> > So what we have here is absolutely no creativity whatsoever. I find it highly
> > distastefull when the works of an author are blatantly copied and no credit
> > (or money) is given to the one who made it happen. I certainly hope that Glens
> > laywers find this myth crap and sue the pants off them.
>
> Please tell me that what we have here isn't typical of this listserv...
> because if it is, I'm unsubscribing right now.
>
It isn't, and the person seemed to be complaining more about the game
than your page devoted to the game and books.
Richard
=======================================================================
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visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David Bricker <qmorris@nasw.org>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Monthly Mailing List Info
Date: 01 Apr 2002 23:46:44 -0500
Point taken. Anyway, I'm one of the converts. I would never have heard of
Glen Cook if it hadn't been for Myth. Will check out the archives
post-haste.
> From: Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>
> Organization: Camarilla
> Reply-To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com
> Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 00:35:16 -0400
> To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com
> Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Monthly Mailing List Info
>
> David Bricker wrote:
> It isn't, and the person seemed to be complaining more about the game
> than your page devoted to the game and books.
>
> Richard
>
> =======================================================================
> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
=======================================================================
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visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael Llaneza <maserati@speakeasy.net>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Monthly Mailing List Info
Date: 01 Apr 2002 20:57:14 -0800
That's what we call a TROLL people. Chase Dave back under his bridge.
Joe Murphy wrote:
>
>David Bricker wrote:
>
>>'lo gents.
>>
>>........book series' obvious influence on the Bungie creators of Myth: The
>>Fallen
>>Lords and Myth:.........
>>http://myth.bungie.org/legends/relics/blackcompany.html
>>
>>David Bricker
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>
> So what we have here is absolutely no creativity whatsoever. I find it highly
>distastefull when the works of an author are blatantly copied and no credit
>(or money) is given to the one who made it happen. I certainly hope that Glens
>laywers find this myth crap and sue the pants off them.
>
>
>
>=======================================================================
> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>
>
=======================================================================
To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David Bricker <qmorris@nasw.org>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Monthly Mailing List Info
Date: 02 Apr 2002 00:02:04 -0500
Huh? I'm a troll? Why is that, exactly? Because I paid homage to two things
I like very much -- The Black Company series and a game inspired by it?
Thank you Mr. Llaneza for your warm welcome.
> From: Michael Llaneza <maserati@speakeasy.net>
> Reply-To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com
> Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 20:57:14 -0800
> To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com
> Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Monthly Mailing List Info
>
> That's what we call a TROLL people. Chase Dave back under his bridge.
>
> Joe Murphy wrote:
>
>>
>> David Bricker wrote:
>>
>>> 'lo gents.
>>>
>>> ........book series' obvious influence on the Bungie creators of Myth: The
>>> Fallen
>>> Lords and Myth:.........
>>> http://myth.bungie.org/legends/relics/blackcompany.html
>>>
>>> David Bricker
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>
>> So what we have here is absolutely no creativity whatsoever. I find it highly
>> distastefull when the works of an author are blatantly copied and no credit
>> (or money) is given to the one who made it happen. I certainly hope that
>> Glens
>> laywers find this myth crap and sue the pants off them.
>>
>>
>>
>> =======================================================================
>> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
>> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>>
>>
>
>
>
> =======================================================================
> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
=======================================================================
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visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Monthly Mailing List Info
Date: 02 Apr 2002 01:31:47 -0400
David Bricker wrote:
>
> Huh? I'm a troll? Why is that, exactly? Because I paid homage to two things
> I like very much -- The Black Company series and a game inspired by it?
>
> Thank you Mr. Llaneza for your warm welcome.
>
Um, I think he was referring to the hostile reply to your message (which
he quoted) rather than your message.
This is usually deadish - except when a new book comes out or one of the
reoccurring subjects get raised. These subjects (in no particular
order) are:
Who would you cast if a movie was being made about book X?
How can we get copies of Glen Cook's backlist?
What is Cook working on now?
Debates about who would win a fight between X and Y.
What other books are good?
What was character X's motivation for doing Y? (One of the common ones
of these - why didn't Lady use the True Names she knew in the Books of
the South / Glittering Stone novels.)
As far as I can remember there's been only one really hostile poster
(i.e. attacking other people as opposed to disagreeing with their
theories of the books) on the list - and he was quickly removed. Things
seem to have gotten weird tonight (maybe because of the date?) but let
me be one of the first to welcome to this list with open arms.
Richard
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visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Fraser=20Ronald?= <stelm7@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Monthly Mailing List Info
Date: 02 Apr 2002 16:10:58 +0100 (BST)
I think Mr. Llaneza got confused over who wrote what.
In any case, I've been a lurker here for a good couple
of years, and everything is usually pretty quiet, with
good-natured, polite discussions. I can only remember
one instance of a really impolite exchange, but that
got cooled off when others jumped in and pulled the
two apart.
I like this list, even though it is relatively quiet
save when a new book comes out. Don't worry about this
confusion/miscommunication/what have you. It's not
commonplace on this list.
Hope you stick around.
Fraser Ronald
"Sword's Edge"
(http://www.atfantasy.com/fiction/swords_edge/)
The AtFantasy Fiction Archive
(http://www.atfantasy.com/fiction/)
--- David Bricker <qmorris@nasw.org> wrote: >
> Huh? I'm a troll? Why is that, exactly? Because I
> paid homage to two things
> I like very much -- The Black Company series and a
> game inspired by it?
>
> Thank you Mr. Llaneza for your warm welcome.
>
>
>
> > From: Michael Llaneza <maserati@speakeasy.net>
> > Reply-To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com
> > Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 20:57:14 -0800
> > To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com
> > Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Monthly Mailing List
> Info
> >
> > That's what we call a TROLL people. Chase Dave
> back under his bridge.
> >
> > Joe Murphy wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> David Bricker wrote:
> >>
> >>> 'lo gents.
> >>>
> >>> ........book series' obvious influence on the
> Bungie creators of Myth: The
> >>> Fallen
> >>> Lords and Myth:.........
> >>>
>
http://myth.bungie.org/legends/relics/blackcompany.html
> >>>
> >>> David Bricker
> >>>
> >>>
>
> >>>
> >>
> >> So what we have here is absolutely no creativity
> whatsoever. I find it highly
> >> distastefull when the works of an author are
> blatantly copied and no credit
> >> (or money) is given to the one who made it
> happen. I certainly hope that
> >> Glens
> >> laywers find this myth crap and sue the pants off
> them.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
=======================================================================
> >> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives
> of this list,
> >> visit
> <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
=======================================================================
> > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives
> of this list,
> > visit
> <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>
>
>
=======================================================================
> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives
> of this list,
> visit
<http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
=====
Fraser Ronald
"Sword's Edge" (http://www.atfantasy.com/fiction/swords_edge/)
AtFantasy Alliance Fiction Archive (http://www.atfantasy.com/fiction)
"Souls and a Silver Sword" (http://www.fragmentedinfinity.org/sword/SilverSword.htm)
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com
=======================================================================
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visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael Llaneza <maserati@speakeasy.net>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Monthly Mailing List Info
Date: 02 Apr 2002 18:38:06 -0800
It wouldn't be the first time I misread an email header.
Fraser Ronald wrote:
>I think Mr. Llaneza got confused over who wrote what.
>In any case, I've been a lurker here for a good couple
>of years, and everything is usually pretty quiet, with
>good-natured, polite discussions. I can only remember
>one instance of a really impolite exchange, but that
>got cooled off when others jumped in and pulled the
>two apart.
>
>I like this list, even though it is relatively quiet
>save when a new book comes out. Don't worry about this
>confusion/miscommunication/what have you. It's not
>commonplace on this list.
>
>Hope you stick around.
>
>Fraser Ronald
>"Sword's Edge"
>(http://www.atfantasy.com/fiction/swords_edge/)
>The AtFantasy Fiction Archive
>(http://www.atfantasy.com/fiction/)
>
>
>--- David Bricker <qmorris@nasw.org> wrote: >
>
>>Huh? I'm a troll? Why is that, exactly? Because I
>>paid homage to two things
>>I like very much -- The Black Company series and a
>>game inspired by it?
>>
>>Thank you Mr. Llaneza for your warm welcome.
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: Michael Llaneza <maserati@speakeasy.net>
>>>Reply-To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com
>>>Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 20:57:14 -0800
>>>To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com
>>>Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Monthly Mailing List
>>>
>>Info
>>
>>>That's what we call a TROLL people. Chase Dave
>>>
>>back under his bridge.
>>
>>>Joe Murphy wrote:
>>>
>>>>David Bricker wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>'lo gents.
>>>>>
>>>>>........book series' obvious influence on the
>>>>>
>>Bungie creators of Myth: The
>>
>>>>>Fallen
>>>>>Lords and Myth:.........
>>>>>
>http://myth.bungie.org/legends/relics/blackcompany.html
>
>>>>>David Bricker
>>>>>
>>>>>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>>>>So what we have here is absolutely no creativity
>>>>
>>whatsoever. I find it highly
>>
>>>>distastefull when the works of an author are
>>>>
>>blatantly copied and no credit
>>
>>>>(or money) is given to the one who made it
>>>>
>>happen. I certainly hope that
>>
>>>>Glens
>>>>laywers find this myth crap and sue the pants off
>>>>
>>them.
>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>=======================================================================
>
>>>>To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives
>>>>
>>of this list,
>>
>>>>visit
>>>>
>><http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>=======================================================================
>
>>>To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives
>>>
>>of this list,
>>
>>>visit
>>>
>><http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>>
>>
>>
>=======================================================================
>
>> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives
>>of this list,
>> visit
>>
><http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>
>=====
>Fraser Ronald
>"Sword's Edge" (http://www.atfantasy.com/fiction/swords_edge/)
>AtFantasy Alliance Fiction Archive (http://www.atfantasy.com/fiction)
>"Souls and a Silver Sword" (http://www.fragmentedinfinity.org/sword/SilverSword.htm)
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Everything you'll ever need on one web page
>from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
>http://uk.my.yahoo.com
>
>=======================================================================
> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>
>
=======================================================================
To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Z" <z@myyellowstone.net>
Subject: (glencook-fans) The Dragon Never Sleeps, missing chapter 152
Date: 03 Apr 2002 09:19:14 -0800
Don't know how many people here have read The Dragon
Never Sleeps, but there was a long lost Chapter 152 that
is now available.
The formerly missing chapter 152 from The Dragon Never
Sleeps.
--- Chapter 152 ---
Guardship: VI Adjutrix
Off point 2837P03Z11 in new system G2837
shipsyear 3762; year 1578 of Unity
Alert Status: Yellow Three
Surveillance Mode: Active
Adjutrix G2837. A. G2836. A. M2835. A. D2834. It was
a seemingly never ending series of systems on the Web.
In each system, each tag end or point, VI Adjutrix dutifully
catalogued the data.
Ages ago, VI Adjutrix had left Canon space in its search for
the end of the Web. It had yet to find it. As it passed by
various systems, it dropped off two riders and three scouts in
order to obtain detailed system data. It was more efficient
to travel through several systems dropping off crew and then
returning to pick up the OpsCrew and ServCrew science
teams on a passage to another point.
Deified OpsAvocat Rickar Chilton fumed. It seemed that
ServCrew scientist 3 Eva, OpsCrew Pilot 3 Fasfir, and
team leader WarCrew Corporal Casey were missing
along with their ships. It was clear where the trail went as
it led straight to a yet unexplored tag at point 2837P03Z11.
OpsAvocat Chilton decided to consult with WarAvocat
Dav Bricker before taking Adjutrix to see if there was yet
another planetary system off the tag.
=======================================================================
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visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Pardoz <pardoz@io.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) The Dragon Never Sleeps, missing chapter 152
Date: 03 Apr 2002 20:16:35 -0400
PkRvbid0IGtub3cgaG93IG1hbnkgcGVvcGxlIGhlcmUgaGF2ZSByZWFkIFRoZSBEcmFnb24NCj5O
ZXZlciBTbGVlcHMsIGJ1dCB0aGVyZSB3YXMgYSBsb25nIGxvc3QgQ2hhcHRlciAxNTIgdGhhdA0K
PmlzIG5vdyBhdmFpbGFibGUuDQo+DQo+VGhlIGZvcm1lcmx5IG1pc3NpbmcgY2hhcHRlciAxNTIg
ZnJvbSBUaGUgRHJhZ29uIE5ldmVyDQo+U2xlZXBzLiAgDQoNCglXaGVyZSdkIHRoaXMgY29tZSBm
cm9tPyAgSSdtIGhvcGluZyBub3QgZnJvbSBDb29rLCBhcyBpdCdzIHdob2xseSB1bm5lY2Vzc2Fy
eSAtIHRoZSBib29rIGVuZGVkIGluIGp1c3QgdGhlIHJpZ2h0IHBsYWNlLg0K
=======================================================================
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From: Michael Llaneza <maserati@speakeasy.net>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) The Dragon Never Sleeps, missing chapter 152
Date: 03 Apr 2002 18:29:07 -0800
I'm passing THAT around, sfconsim-l has a couple folks who'll want that.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH
Z wrote:
>Don't know how many people here have read The Dragon
>Never Sleeps, but there was a long lost Chapter 152 that
>is now available.
>
>The formerly missing chapter 152 from The Dragon Never
>Sleeps.
>
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From: Steve Harris <harrissg@slu.edu>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) The Dragon Never Sleeps, missing chapter 152
Date: 04 Apr 2002 00:34:29 -0600
Hi, all,
Let us consider the evidence from _The Dragon Never Sleeps_:
Chapter 1:
Guardship: VII Gemina
On rest station trojan L5 off P. Jacksonia 3
11/23 shipsyear 3681; year 43 of the Deified Kole Marmigus
Dictats: The Deified Ansehl Ronygos, dct. 17
WarAvocat Hanavaer Strate, dct. 1
Alert status: Green Three
WarCrew sleeping [.03 duty section]
Surveillance Mode: Passive
...
Chapter 151:
Guardship: VII Gemina
Off tag end 27P29Z6 awaiting Core restructure assistance
2/17 shipsyear 3751; year 66 of the Deified Hanaver Strate
Dictats: The Deified Hanaver Strate, dct. 7
WarAvocat/OpsAvorcat Jo Klass, dct. 3
Alert status: Yellow One
WarCrew sleeping [.18 duty section]
Surveillance Mode: Active
[end of book]
-----------------------
Putative Chapter 152:
Guardship: VI Adjutrix
Off point 2837P03Z11 in new system G2837
shipsyear 3762; year 1578 of Unity
Alert Status: Yellow Three
Surveillance Mode: Active
-----------------------
Um, no, it don't match (no month/day, no listing of Dictats, no WarCrew
status). Not to mention the perfect symmetry of the canonical 151
chapters, ending and finishing with the VII Gemina status reports; a
further chapter is quite superfluous.
This is a hack job, and not a skillful one.
Steve
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From: "Dr. Elmo" <dr.elmo@whiterose.org>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) The Dragon Never Sleeps, missing chapter
Date: 04 Apr 2002 09:05:59 -0600
Steve Harris wondered aloud to the group:
>This is a hack job, and not a skillful one.
When strange and unlikely things are posted in springtime, it's often a
useful exercise to check the timestamp and the calendar.
--
"REALISTIC ORIGIN COMICS: SUPERMAN. The young Kryptonian, born under the red
sun of Krypton, now felt the much brighter yellow sunlight of Earth for the
first time. The radiations worked changes on his very cells. Tragically,
the higher level of ultraviolet radiation gave Kal-El almost immediate third
degree sunburn, and the last son of Krypton died of skin cancer a few
painful months later."--Mike Schiffer et al.
Dr.Elmo@whiterose.org http://www.whiterose.org/dr.elmo/
Stratagem Ideaware http://monstereditor.sourceforge.net/Stratagem.html
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From: "Z" <z@myyellowstone.net>
Subject: (glencook-fans) missing chapter 152
Date: 04 Apr 2002 15:19:52 -0800
ack, don't pass it outside the mailing list. it was meant
as a bit of humour for the fans of the mailing list who
had read ANGRY LEAD SKIES (which would possibly
be everyone, since we are all fans, no?).
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From: David Ainsworth <dbainswo@students.wisc.edu>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Angry Lead Skies ***SPOILER ALERT***
Date: 04 Apr 2002 14:23:31 -0600
At 12:15 PM 3/25/2002 -0800, Matt Patterson - Editor d' Ooze wrote:
> ************SPOILER ALERT******************
> >
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
>
>If there is only one more book, Cook really does have to tie up a bunch of
>plotlines around whatever main plot the next one's going to be. 1) the whole
>Secret Police thread is probably going to come to a head around Chodo's
>party or something similar. And that should also wrap the Belinda thread
>too. 2) in order for Garrett and Tinnie to really cement their relationship,
>she's going to be put in Jeopardy again. 3) I'm not sure what's going to
>happen to Morley, but I'd guess he will probably legitimize himself more.
I agree regarding the mystery aspects (most of which seem to peter out
pretty quickly), though I can't help but wonder if Cook isn't seeding a lot
of extra threads around in this book for his next one. The mysterious and
magicked boots may make another appearance, for example... and I expect the
ratmen will be very important in the next book.
I have to wonder, too, about whether the Dead Man is really what Garrett
thinks he is. Garrett comments this time around that perhaps the Dead Man
keeps info from him because he isn't a reliable keeper of secrets. We have
seen in the past the sort of power (at distance) that a Logyr can project,
and while there's every indication that they need rest from time to time, I
wonder at the Dead Man's flurry of activity (setting lots of things up)
followed by his mysterious silence. Is it a plot device (Casey turning the
telepathic tables and putting DM to sleep) or a hint at something else?
Observations--the Dead Man has been studying Glory Mooncalled
intensely. Glory Mooncalled (at least initially) seemed very concerned
with advancing the rights of the non-human races. The Dead Man has adopted
a number of Mooncalled's innovative tactics himself (his use of Mr Big as a
scout, the recent association with pixies). There have been strong
overtones--especially in ALS with the attention drawn to the ratpeople and
their lack of rights--of some brewing conflict and/or resolution of certain
racial problems in TunFaire.
I have to wonder if the Dead Man isn't carefully manipulating the situation
to pull a Glory Mooncalled of his own. Total silence from him may
indicate, not that he's sleeping, but that all of his attention is focused
at distance on other affairs.
David
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From: Steve Harris <harrissg@SLU.EDU>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) missing chapter 152
Date: 04 Apr 2002 19:07:51 -0600
Z,
"the fans of the mailing list who
had read ANGRY LEAD SKIES (which would possibly
be everyone, since we are all fans, no?)"
No, I don't intend to read Lead till I've caught up on the intervening
ones (I've read Silver, Gold, Copper, and Quicksilver).
But seeing as how the earlier ones tend to disappear from the bookstores
after a couple years and don't get reprinted (I don't know how I'm going
to find Tin these days; fortunate, I've got Brass), maybe I'd best pick
up Lead now, in any case.
Steve
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From: Pat & Ellen Hannum <hanmac@qwest.net>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Angry Lead Skies ***SPOILER ALERT***
Date: 04 Apr 2002 17:35:06 -0800
David Ainsworth wrote:
> At 12:15 PM 3/25/2002 -0800, Matt Patterson - Editor d' Ooze wrote:
> > ************SPOILER ALERT******************
> > >
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> >
>
> I have to wonder if the Dead Man isn't carefully manipulating the situation
> to pull a Glory Mooncalled of his own. Total silence from him may
> indicate, not that he's sleeping, but that all of his attention is focused
> at distance on other affairs.
>
> David
Ohhhh, isn't that a different way to look at it....
Snarky bastard that it is...
Pat
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From: Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Angry Lead Skies ***SPOILER ALERT***
Date: 12 Apr 2002 19:07:40 -0300
I know these are old posts, but I didn't have the book when they were
sent. Someone at the bookstore forgot to phone to tell me it was in, so
I just finished yesterday.
"Timothy P. Taylor" wrote:
>
> I finished Angry Lead Skies.
>
> I liked it.
>
> ************SPOILER ALERT******************
>
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> **
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *I think that some of the alluded to sex scenes were "interesting", I liked
> VERY MCUH the fact that Pular was in this one. Cook did a good job I think
> in rounding out several characters, and still managing to incorporate
> several old reliables (Saucerhead, Morley, Winger) without going overboard.
>
> I think he's setting it up for a pretty good conclusion, the ending was
> interesting what with the dialogue between Old Man Tate, Garrett and Tinnie.
>
> Okay, I'm rooting that he settles down with tinnie...I admit to a bit of a
> bias in that I myself married a red-head...no regrets!
>
I think Garrett will have to rethink his options one of these days. It
was one thing when he was one of the few human males around (the young
men off fighting the war and few survivors returning) but now that the
army is back home and de-mobbed I have a feeling that he wasn't as good
of a catch as when the boys were off at war.
Then again, now that there's money coming in (unless he gets cheated out
of his share) he's going to attract a whole new kind of girlfriend.
The latest book advanced (in a round about way) a new theory for how
Garrett was always able to get the girls - he seems to be a borderline
Psy with unconscious powers. The mother daughter team that was
introduced seemed like a glaring pointer to how Garrett gets the girls -
his mind pulls them towards him.
On a separate topic - did we just get some insight into magic? The beam
weapon was a delouser - is the magic of the Hill Lords linked to psychic
parasites, or are their minds just so far open that the beam fried
them? Or was it as Garrett suspected - the alien getting a bit of
revenge?
Speaking of aliens - I was a bit surprised by the Dead Man's reaction to
them. Those guys? They were here before, they don't share knowledge,
they don't help us in our schemes, they really don't matter much. Then
again, part of me thinks it might just be an act - that the Dead Man and
the aliens were making deals that will be part of a side show during the
next book. The way the Dead Man was woken up - could the aliens have a
way of giving him extra energy, strengthening his powers?
One thing I'd love to know is how a first time reader would read this
book - I could just be me but I didn't see a lot introduction and back
explaination for old characters and situations.
Richard
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From: Michael Scholl <mdscholl@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Angry Lead Skies ***SPOILER ALERT***
Date: 16 Apr 2002 20:22:15 -0700 (PDT)
--- Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com> wrote:
> I know these are old posts, but I didn't have the
> book when they were
> sent. Someone at the bookstore forgot to phone to
> tell me it was in, so
> I just finished yesterday.
>
> "Timothy P. Taylor" wrote:
> >
> > I finished Angry Lead Skies.
> >
> > I liked it.
> >
> > ************SPOILER ALERT******************
> >
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> part of me thinks it might just be an act -
> that the Dead Man and the aliens were making deals
> that will be part of a side show during the
> next book. The way the Dead Man was woken up -
> could the aliens have a way of giving him extra
> energy, strengthening his powers?
Hehe, I had the same thoughts and wondered if Casey
would lay down some science on the Dead Man. I almost
suspected that the book would end with the Dead Man
opening his eyes shocking Garrett into his 15th bout
of unconsciousness.
Hopefully, the next book will be along soon.
Michael
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
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From: Eric Herrmann <shpshftr@xmission.com>
Subject: (glencook-fans) Guest Speaker
Date: 21 Apr 2002 16:47:40 -0600
It looks like Glen is supposed to be guest speaking at the St. Charles
Science Fiction/Fantasy Society again.
May 1, 2002, 7 pm at the Borders Books on Olive in Creve Coeur.
<http://www.scsffs.org/scsffsevents.htm>
--
Eric Herrmann
<shpshftr@xmission.com>
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From: Steve Harris <harrissg@slu.edu>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Guest Speaker
Date: 21 Apr 2002 23:13:48 -0500
Eric,
Thanks for the heads' up!
Last year, he was a no-show--confusion on whether he was being picked up
or driving himself out there, I think (it's a substantial drive from
where he lives).
Hmm, I live not far from him; maybe I should volunteer to take him...
Steve
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From: Eric Herrmann <shpshftr@xmission.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Guest Speaker
Date: 22 Apr 2002 15:42:53 -0600
on 4/21/02 10:13 PM, Steve Harris at harrissg@slu.edu wrote:
> Hmm, I live not far from him; maybe I should volunteer to take him...
Your sacrifice will be an inspiration to us all.
--
Eric Herrmann
<shpshftr@xmission.com>
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From: "don" <dfgarcia@stic.net>
Subject: (glencook-fans) Deadly quicksilver lies
Date: 27 Apr 2002 22:52:52 -0500
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C1EE3E.43534C00
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Anybody know if this book is still in print. It is keeping me from =
moving on in the series.
Don
"In time, what's deserved always gets served"- COC
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C1EE3E.43534C00
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Anybody know if this book is still in =
print. It is=20
keeping me from moving on in the series.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Don<BR>"In time, what's deserved always =
gets=20
served"- COC</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C1EE3E.43534C00--
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From: Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Deadly quicksilver lies
Date: 28 Apr 2002 01:04:45 -0300
> don wrote:
>
> Anybody know if this book is still in print. It is keeping me from
> moving on in the series.
>
Found it on Amazon.com - listed as limited availabily. The link is:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0451453050/qid=1019966643/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-4945267-1333567
Richard
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From: "Ron Spence" <rjspence@ev1.net>
Subject: (glencook-fans) Angry Red Skies
Date: 27 Apr 2002 23:09:46 -0500
Spoilers
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
At the end, when the three guys from "up on the hill" ended up as
vegetables, did anyone else think that maybe Casey didn't do it?
Relway was rumored to be in the room and/or nearby, and may have
avoided Casey's escape. In that case, he would have had free hand to
dispense "justice" as needed and be able to avoid blame. The big
clash between Relway and the "Hill" was already aluded to and I expect
will happen in the next book.
Comments?
Ron
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From: Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Angry Red Skies
Date: 28 Apr 2002 01:38:42 -0300
Ron Spence wrote:
>
> Spoilers
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> At the end, when the three guys from "up on the hill" ended up as
> vegetables, did anyone else think that maybe Casey didn't do it?
> Relway was rumored to be in the room and/or nearby, and may have
> avoided Casey's escape. In that case, he would have had free hand to
> dispense "justice" as needed and be able to avoid blame. The big
> clash between Relway and the "Hill" was already aluded to and I expect
> will happen in the next book.
>
It could be him - but the affects seemed more psychic / magical than
physical. There was no report of massive head injuries caused by a
guard's club.
Maybe Relway is getting magical items (used to subdue prisoners during
the war? knock them out for good but leave the mind open for reading?)
and tested it on them while their defences were down. I can see some
surplus items coming onto the market as supply officers start building
their retirement funds.
Or maybe Casey gave something to Relway or taught him a psychic trick?
In many gaming setting magic and psychic powers don't interact, leaving
a master of one vulnerable to the other.
Or maybe whatever the Hill Folk tap for their magic (which is powered by
silver - a conductor) is on the electromagnetic spectrum and the energy
field just shorted it out and took their minds with it. I'd almost say
that Hill folk magic has to have some relationship to tapping other
types of energy fields - otherwise why pick on the kid to be the
inventor? Sure he's a dreamer, but he also has a magical talent from
off the Hill and is totally untrained - and completely vulnerable
because there are only a handful of people in the world who care about
him. If he was a Hill boy there would be an entire family and their
support staff behind him, not just his family and stable owner.
Is it realist that a kid in a low tech shop could help fix a
spacecraft? Of course not, unless he can somehow tap the energy fields
the crafts use. An energy field that would be affect (perhaps
supercharged) by the stunner?
Just idle speculation. Cook has never published enough details on how
the magic system works to make a guess. He might not know beyond a few
dramatic points (i.e. he didn't map it out ahead of time, just used it
in his series in a way that makes sense). Given that Cook isn't one for
mapping out every little detail I suspect he hasn't given much thought
to the magic system or how it interacts with tech, or psychic stuff
(only really introduced in this book).
Richard
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From: Michael Llaneza <maserati@speakeasy.net>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Deadly quicksilver lies
Date: 27 Apr 2002 22:06:06 -0700
Barnes and Noble only have it through used book dealers, at prices
ranging from $12.15 to $57.56.
If tehy're actually moving the copies $40 on up, then Glen really needs
to have a looong talk with his publisher. Mysteries are still good,
maybe new editions with less-silly covers would do well.
Richard Chilton wrote:
>>don wrote:
>>
>>Anybody know if this book is still in print. It is keeping me from
>>moving on in the series.
>>
>
>Found it on Amazon.com - listed as limited availabily. The link is:
>
>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0451453050/qid=1019966643/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-4945267-1333567
>
>Richard
>
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From: Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Deadly quicksilver lies
Date: 28 Apr 2002 02:20:14 -0300
Michael Llaneza wrote:
>
> Barnes and Noble only have it through used book dealers, at prices
> ranging from $12.15 to $57.56.
>
> If tehy're actually moving the copies $40 on up, then Glen really needs
> to have a looong talk with his publisher. Mysteries are still good,
> maybe new editions with less-silly covers would do well.
>
Now that would be a project - tracing the pricing on Glen's backlist and
submitting it to his agent and publishers. It might spark reprints of
the more popular ones.
After all, if some people are ready to pay $40 for a single paperback
then more are ready to pay the going rate for new paperback or released
hardcover. I've seen some TSR books released as "collectors editions"
with three or four books in one oversize volume - that might work for
Cook's backlist.
Or it might spur his pupishers to tap this willing market through
printing on demand or electronic editions.
Just speculations.
Richard
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From: Michael Llaneza <maserati@speakeasy.net>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Deadly quicksilver lies
Date: 27 Apr 2002 22:29:52 -0700
Doing the Garret series in 3 volume editions, with noir-ish covers (no
guns !) and pitching them towards (if not actually at) the mystery
market could do very well. Lord knows the man deserves a wider audience,
and bigger checks, than he's gotten.
Electronic publication of *everything* out of print is my goal.
Richard Chilton wrote:
>
>Now that would be a project - tracing the pricing on Glen's backlist and
>submitting it to his agent and publishers. It might spark reprints of
>the more popular ones.
>
>After all, if some people are ready to pay $40 for a single paperback
>then more are ready to pay the going rate for new paperback or released
>hardcover. I've seen some TSR books released as "collectors editions"
>with three or four books in one oversize volume - that might work for
>Cook's backlist.
>
>Or it might spur his pupishers to tap this willing market through
>printing on demand or electronic editions.
>
>Just speculations.
>
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From: Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Deadly quicksilver lies
Date: 28 Apr 2002 02:41:39 -0300
Michael Llaneza wrote:
>
> Doing the Garret series in 3 volume editions, with noir-ish covers (no
> guns !) and pitching them towards (if not actually at) the mystery
> market could do very well. Lord knows the man deserves a wider audience,
> and bigger checks, than he's gotten.
>
At the time I think the biggest check he received for writting came from
the SF&F bookclub for the 3 in 1 Black Company book. From what I heard
it was years before he surpassed that year's earnings (abut 14K). One
of the big reasons he kept working.
> Electronic publication of *everything* out of print is my goal.
>
I'd perfer Printing on Demand - reading on the computer (ebook, palm,
whatever) isn't the same as a real book.
Richard
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From: "Ron Spence" <rjspence@ev1.net>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Angry Red Skies
Date: 28 Apr 2002 00:52:19 -0500
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 11:38 PM
> Ron Spence wrote:
> >
> > Spoilers
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > At the end, when the three guys from "up on the hill" ended up as
> > vegetables, did anyone else think that maybe Casey didn't do it?
> > Relway was rumored to be in the room and/or nearby, and may have
> > avoided Casey's escape. In that case, he would have had free hand
to
> > dispense "justice" as needed and be able to avoid blame. The big
> > clash between Relway and the "Hill" was already aluded to and I
expect
> > will happen in the next book.
> >
>
> It could be him - but the affects seemed more psychic / magical than
> physical. There was no report of massive head injuries caused by a
> guard's club.
> Maybe Relway is getting magical items (used to subdue prisoners
during
> the war? knock them out for good but leave the mind open for
reading?)
> and tested it on them while their defences were down. I can see
some
> surplus items coming onto the market as supply officers start
building
> their retirement funds.
> Or maybe Casey gave something to Relway or taught him a psychic
trick?
> In many gaming setting magic and psychic powers don't interact,
leaving
> a master of one vulnerable to the other.
Even Garrett says that Relway wouldn't try moving against Hill folks
unless he was secure (or had a way to deal with them...). He even
said that he was suprised that Relway was ready to move this early.
Just some idle speculation...
Ron
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From: Michael Llaneza <maserati@speakeasy.net>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Deadly quicksilver lies
Date: 27 Apr 2002 23:10:56 -0700
Print on Demand is the next step. This guy should have a big house and a
nice car, and health insurance for his family, based on the amount of
quality writing he has put out over the years.
Richard Chilton wrote:
>Michael Llaneza wrote:
>
>>Doing the Garret series in 3 volume editions, with noir-ish covers (no
>>guns !) and pitching them towards (if not actually at) the mystery
>>market could do very well. Lord knows the man deserves a wider audience,
>>and bigger checks, than he's gotten.
>>
>
>At the time I think the biggest check he received for writting came from
>the SF&F bookclub for the 3 in 1 Black Company book. From what I heard
>it was years before he surpassed that year's earnings (abut 14K). One
>of the big reasons he kept working.
>
>>Electronic publication of *everything* out of print is my goal.
>>
>
>I'd perfer Printing on Demand - reading on the computer (ebook, palm,
>whatever) isn't the same as a real book.
>
>Richard
>
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>
>
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From: Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Angry Red Skies
Date: 28 Apr 2002 03:29:18 -0300
Ron Spence wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>
> To: <glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com>
> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 11:38 PM
> Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Angry Red Skies
>
> > Ron Spence wrote:
> > >
> > > Spoilers
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > At the end, when the three guys from "up on the hill" ended up as
> > > vegetables, did anyone else think that maybe Casey didn't do it?
> > > Relway was rumored to be in the room and/or nearby, and may have
> > > avoided Casey's escape. In that case, he would have had free hand
> to
> > > dispense "justice" as needed and be able to avoid blame. The big
> > > clash between Relway and the "Hill" was already aluded to and I
> expect
> > > will happen in the next book.
> > >
> >
> > It could be him - but the affects seemed more psychic / magical than
> > physical. There was no report of massive head injuries caused by a
> > guard's club.
> > Maybe Relway is getting magical items (used to subdue prisoners
> during
> > the war? knock them out for good but leave the mind open for
> reading?)
> > and tested it on them while their defences were down. I can see
> some
> > surplus items coming onto the market as supply officers start
> building
> > their retirement funds.
> > Or maybe Casey gave something to Relway or taught him a psychic
> trick?
> > In many gaming setting magic and psychic powers don't interact,
> leaving
> > a master of one vulnerable to the other.
>
> Even Garrett says that Relway wouldn't try moving against Hill folks
> unless he was secure (or had a way to deal with them...). He even
> said that he was suprised that Relway was ready to move this early.
>
I'd forgotten that. Maybe Relway feels that the Hill folks have to
sleep sometime and they can be overwhelmed by numbers. I've got the
feeling that magic can't stand up to large numbers (otherwise why would
the two sides needed armies to fight for the silver mines?).
Let's look at Relway's situation:
1) The quality of the Hill folk is going down. They now have some who
have never been tested in battle. Worse, they've lost their enforced
unity. Remember how surprised Garrett was to see the Hill guy in
tattered clothing? At one time I'd doubt they'd ever let one of their
own (and a good combat man at that) sink so low.
2) The Hill folk are looking at different goals. Not only is their
quality going down but combat is no longer the be all and end all of
their skills. Great for postwar power jockeying, bad for enforcing
their rule.
3) Everyone knows that Hill folks are in it for themselves. Relway is
going to have broad popular support if it looks like he might win - even
with a cynical population.
4) A large percentage of the population is combat trained and used to
following orders. The ex-army folks 'know' (i.e. believe to the point
of certainty) that a lot of the Hill people are incompetent, led them
into ruin during the war, and these men know that magic can't keep you
alive when you have a belly full of steel. They bled during the war and
the leaders let the homeland go to hell with all these non-humans
running things now. Many of them seem to have some problems - even
Garrett admits to needing (not wanting but needing) to get drunk every
once in a while at the one bar where everyone knows what he went through
because they lived through that hell too.
5) The Hill types have lost control and haven't noticed it. Remember
when (forget his name - the chief cop) was scared about the folk from
the Hill and Garrett pointed out that they hadn't hired him so couldn't
fire him? The Hill types were needed during the war for their combat
magic, but the war's over.
6) The other powers are pushing the Hill. The Royal family is active
again. Merchants are the ones getting things done. The underworld is
almost self regulating. Everyone wants just a little more power and
everyone is taking a bit more from the Hill people.
It looks like all you need is a spark. The Call could have provided it,
but the Call seems to have lost its chance because of its leaders
political goals. If Relway can provide a clear focus for the populance,
say a rape or murder with clear proof and the guy walks because he's
from the Hill Relway can use the politically motavated force he's
assembled to enforce the concept that those sissy boys from the Hill
shouldn't be able to get away with murder in the land soldiers paid for
with their blood. Lots of bloodshed, but Relway has (probably) been
studying their security (in the guise of protecting them from the great
unwash) and knows where and how to strike.
When it comes to a fight, who would be on what side? Would the city
guards take up arms against their fellows to protect people they don't
believe in? Maybe.
Is the army ready to deal with it? I'd guess most of it has been stood
down and the rest are posistioned to handle the threats people see
coming - the old enemy trying something, a revolt in capture terrority -
not to keep the police from knocking off most of the now surplus war
wizards.
Looking at it this way Relway is ready, he just has to get things
together. He'll have to accept that he will probably be a target for
sorcerous assassination tricks and that many of his men will go down in
the fighting. Maybe he's just counting up the price and seeing if he's
ready to pay it yet - I say yet because he is a fanatic and will go for
it someday. Maybe during the big birthday party?
Speaking of the party, was it just me or Cook gloss over a lot of things
in this book? Some of those page long chapters could have easily been
full sized ones, but that would have spoiled the timing of the book.
While reading I got the feeling in places Cook was just setting the
stage for the next book.
Richard
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From: Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Deadly quicksilver lies
Date: 28 Apr 2002 03:34:12 -0300
Michael Llaneza wrote:
>
> Print on Demand is the next step. This guy should have a big house and a
> nice car, and health insurance for his family, based on the amount of
> quality writing he has put out over the years.
>
He should. He would if people had better tastes in reading material.
From what I've read I've got the feeling that he lives off his pension
and the writing just pays for extras.
Most of his books don't seem to have sold well. Look at all the titles
he produced before the Black Company - I've read the Dread Empire books
but only because the local university is a holding center for SF&FWA.
Even some of the Black Company and Garrett books (great sellers) are now
out of print. If we could his entire backlist back on the market I
think he'd be able to reach a much broader audience.
Richard
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From: Michael Llaneza <maserati@speakeasy.net>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Deadly quicksilver lies
Date: 28 Apr 2002 00:02:51 -0700
I wouldn't consider it a question of people having better tastes.
Melanie Rawn sells lots of thick books, but I find her work almost
unreadable. George RR Martin sold a lot of the Storm of Swords trilogy,
but that's just bleak and overcomplicated (well, not 'just' but I
consider those to be B grade, not A's just on mood - Winter is Coming -
and could stand to be shortened).
Dread Empire, one of the more complicated and invovled fantasy series
I've ever read, couldn't sell well enough to pay out Glen's advances for
the book (or if so, just barely) His science-fiction is quite good
(Starfishers, Dragon Never Sleeps).Arghh. I've had a button pushed, you
folks are the choir.
On the brighter side, the Garrett files seem to be selling well, and
Stacy's Books in San Francsico (large, local chain of maybe 4 stores)
has all of the in-print Black Company books on the shelf. If I had the
discretionary income this month I might have grabbed them so they'll
order more ( I *do* do that for Ill Fate Marshalling) every so often -
Borders usually has it).
Another good sign. Glen's books on Amazon now have sample pages - the
first couple of chapters - so people can get a taste. I sincerely hope
it turns into sales for him. If I was putting my personal data anywhere
near Amazon anymore I'd be writing glowing reviews (note to self: give
them the spamtrap address, review Cook).
Richard Chilton wrote:
>He should. He would if people had better tastes in reading material.
>>From what I've read I've got the feeling that he lives off his pension
>and the writing just pays for extras.
>
>Most of his books don't seem to have sold well. Look at all the titles
>he produced before the Black Company - I've read the Dread Empire books
>but only because the local university is a holding center for SF&FWA.
>Even some of the Black Company and Garrett books (great sellers) are now
>out of print. If we could his entire backlist back on the market I
>think he'd be able to reach a much broader audience.
>
>Richard
>
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From: schew@interzone.com (Steve Chew)
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Angry Red Skies
Date: 28 Apr 2002 04:25:57 -0400 (EDT)
>
>Spoilers
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>At the end, when the three guys from "up on the hill" ended up as
>vegetables, did anyone else think that maybe Casey didn't do it?
>Relway was rumored to be in the room and/or nearby, and may have
>avoided Casey's escape. In that case, he would have had free hand to
>dispense "justice" as needed and be able to avoid blame. The big
>clash between Relway and the "Hill" was already aluded to and I expect
>will happen in the next book.
>
I didn't get the feeling that Relway did it -- it seemed like
a non-physical attack. But, I agree that Cook seems to be setting up
Relway for a larger role in a coming book. It will be interested to
see how he entangles Garrett in that mess. It might be difficult to
do since Garrett would prefer to stay out of the way. Perhaps it will
be a sideline that the dead man can entertain himself with like the
war was in the first books.
BTW, I've watched a few Nero Wolfe shows recently (on A&E I
think) and was struck by home much Wolfe and Archie are like the
dead man and Garrett -- maybe that's why I enjoy them. Like the dead
man, Wolfe is continually requiring that everyone come to the house
to be interrogated so he can get the most out of them. But of course
Archie has to do all the legwork. And so on. A definite influence
I'd say.
Steve
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From: "Alan Rimes" <alanrimes@blueyonder.co.uk>
Subject: Fw: (glencook-fans) Deadly quicksilver lies
Date: 28 Apr 2002 09:35:35 +0100
Hi everyone I'm new to the Mailing List but have been a Glen Cook fan for
around 10 years ever since being lent a copy of The Black Company.
I have to agree with the comments already made that I can't understand why
more people don't read Glen Cook. I came to the conclusion that as the cover
art wasn't spectacular people often won't take a chance on an author they
don't know. Unfortinately they don't know what they are missing.
Over here in the UK is a huge market that Glen's publishers are missing out
on, either that or our two biggest retailers aren't interested. Glen's books
are almost impossible to get and I only know of two stores in London that
sell them so the only way to get hold of them is to import them via
Amazon.com which is what I've had to do for Angry Lead Skies.
Alan
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 8:02 AM
> I wouldn't consider it a question of people having better tastes.
> Melanie Rawn sells lots of thick books, but I find her work almost
> unreadable. George RR Martin sold a lot of the Storm of Swords trilogy,
> but that's just bleak and overcomplicated (well, not 'just' but I
> consider those to be B grade, not A's just on mood - Winter is Coming -
> and could stand to be shortened).
>
> Dread Empire, one of the more complicated and invovled fantasy series
> I've ever read, couldn't sell well enough to pay out Glen's advances for
> the book (or if so, just barely) His science-fiction is quite good
> (Starfishers, Dragon Never Sleeps).Arghh. I've had a button pushed, you
> folks are the choir.
>
> On the brighter side, the Garrett files seem to be selling well, and
> Stacy's Books in San Francsico (large, local chain of maybe 4 stores)
> has all of the in-print Black Company books on the shelf. If I had the
> discretionary income this month I might have grabbed them so they'll
> order more ( I *do* do that for Ill Fate Marshalling) every so often -
> Borders usually has it).
>
> Another good sign. Glen's books on Amazon now have sample pages - the
> first couple of chapters - so people can get a taste. I sincerely hope
> it turns into sales for him. If I was putting my personal data anywhere
> near Amazon anymore I'd be writing glowing reviews (note to self: give
> them the spamtrap address, review Cook).
>
> Richard Chilton wrote:
>
> >He should. He would if people had better tastes in reading material.
> >>From what I've read I've got the feeling that he lives off his pension
> >and the writing just pays for extras.
> >
> >Most of his books don't seem to have sold well. Look at all the titles
> >he produced before the Black Company - I've read the Dread Empire books
> >but only because the local university is a holding center for SF&FWA.
> >Even some of the Black Company and Garrett books (great sellers) are now
> >out of print. If we could his entire backlist back on the market I
> >think he'd be able to reach a much broader audience.
> >
> >Richard
> >
>
>
>
> =======================================================================
> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
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From: "don" <dfgarcia@stic.net>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Deadly quicksilver lies
Date: 28 Apr 2002 03:34:58 -0500
Thanks for the information guys. I actually saw the B&N stuff. I just
couldn't believe anybody was buying that book for that price. It's not that
hard to find (except when you really want it). I can see it for Sung in
blood, Matter of Time, and the Dragon Never Sleeps. Is anyone interested in
doing a trade? I will have to sift through my stuff to see what I have
duplicate copies of.
Don
"In time, what's deserved always gets served"- COC
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 12:06 AM
> Barnes and Noble only have it through used book dealers, at prices
> ranging from $12.15 to $57.56.
>
> If tehy're actually moving the copies $40 on up, then Glen really needs
> to have a looong talk with his publisher. Mysteries are still good,
> maybe new editions with less-silly covers would do well.
>
> Richard Chilton wrote:
>
> >>don wrote:
> >>
> >>Anybody know if this book is still in print. It is keeping me from
> >>moving on in the series.
> >>
> >
> >Found it on Amazon.com - listed as limited availabily. The link is:
> >
>
>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0451453050/qid=1019966643/sr=1-1/ref
=sr_1_1/104-4945267-1333567
> >
> >Richard
> >
>
>
>
> =======================================================================
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: schew@interzone.com (Steve Chew)
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Print on Demand
Date: 28 Apr 2002 04:49:49 -0400 (EDT)
>>
>>At the time I think the biggest check he received for writting came from
>>the SF&F bookclub for the 3 in 1 Black Company book. From what I heard
>>it was years before he surpassed that year's earnings (abut 14K). One
>>of the big reasons he kept working.
>>
>>>Electronic publication of *everything* out of print is my goal.
>>>
>>
>>I'd prefer Printing on Demand - reading on the computer (ebook, palm,
>>whatever) isn't the same as a real book.
>>
>
>Print on Demand is the next step. This guy should have a big house and a
>nice car, and health insurance for his family, based on the amount of
>quality writing he has put out over the years.
>
Print on demand would be fantastic. Heck, online on demand would
be good (and it could be great if e-ink works out). But, it's not going
to happen until the publishers lose their fear. Almost all major publishers,
with Baen Books (www.baen.com) being the only execption that I know of, are
utterly terrified of online publishing and print on demand. They fear
that having their books available electronically (and print on demand
would require that it be available electronically) will mean that they'll
all be pirated. They're probably right to a certain degree. There will
be many people who will share their copy of a book with the Internet.
But, in the long run, I think that they would benefit much more by
making such conveniences available. As we see continually on this list,
people want the out of print Glen Cook books. They're willing to pay for
them, sometimes pay outrageously. This is true for virtually all authors
-- their fans want their stuff. This is an untapped market that could be
filled by print on demand. There has to be millions of dollars in sales
potential there.
Unfortunately, the major publishers are afraid that they might be
obsolete if you could just ask Borders to print out the books that you
were interested in -- they're right to a certain extent. Also, they
realize that it will cost them millions of dollars to put all of their out-
of-print books into a format that could be printed on demand. I imagine
that most pre-1990 books aren't even available in a useful electronic
format. If someone could come up with a system that could take the old
formats and make them printable on demand then that would be a step in the
right direction. Still, I don't see most of them overcoming their fear.
Instead most will be replaced by new companies and a few old ones that
adapt.
How could we help to get authors like Cook published via online
or print on demand methods?
By the way, Eric Flint an author with Baen Books has published
some very interesting articles about online publishing (see
http://www.baen.com/library/). Baen Books has made some of their
titles available online for free as an experiment to see if that would
help or hurt their actual sales. Flint has an article discussing his
experiences regarding the number of books sold of the ones he had placed
online (http://www.baen.com/library/palaver6.htm). It has some surprising
and interesting reading. Perhaps it would be an option for Cook.
Steve
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From: Michael Llaneza <maserati@speakeasy.net>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Print on Demand
Date: 28 Apr 2002 02:41:45 -0700
If Baen's experiment succedes we should start bugging TOR about doing
something similar, especialy for Glen's books. Glen is basically writing
for the joy and art of it anyway (unless his sales numbers are way up
since Tower of Fear) so he shouldn't mind too much, especially since
Eric Flint seems to be selling more books now that he's giving some
away. Baen did hit on two very clever ideas for their free library: give
away the first books in a series (James Schmitz has a terrific SF
anthology available) and epublish in several formats including HTML.
C'mon TOR, you're next !
Steve Chew wrote:
>>>At the time I think the biggest check he received for writting came from
>>>the SF&F bookclub for the 3 in 1 Black Company book. From what I heard
>>>it was years before he surpassed that year's earnings (abut 14K). One
>>>of the big reasons he kept working.
>>>
>>>>Electronic publication of *everything* out of print is my goal.
>>>>
>>>I'd prefer Printing on Demand - reading on the computer (ebook, palm,
>>>whatever) isn't the same as a real book.
>>>
>>Print on Demand is the next step. This guy should have a big house and a
>>nice car, and health insurance for his family, based on the amount of
>>quality writing he has put out over the years.
>>
>
> Print on demand would be fantastic. Heck, online on demand would
>be good (and it could be great if e-ink works out). But, it's not going
>to happen until the publishers lose their fear. Almost all major publishers,
>with Baen Books (www.baen.com) being the only execption that I know of, are
>utterly terrified of online publishing and print on demand. They fear
>that having their books available electronically (and print on demand
>would require that it be available electronically) will mean that they'll
>all be pirated. They're probably right to a certain degree. There will
>be many people who will share their copy of a book with the Internet.
> But, in the long run, I think that they would benefit much more by
>making such conveniences available. As we see continually on this list,
>people want the out of print Glen Cook books. They're willing to pay for
>them, sometimes pay outrageously. This is true for virtually all authors
>-- their fans want their stuff. This is an untapped market that could be
>filled by print on demand. There has to be millions of dollars in sales
>potential there.
> Unfortunately, the major publishers are afraid that they might be
>obsolete if you could just ask Borders to print out the books that you
>were interested in -- they're right to a certain extent. Also, they
>realize that it will cost them millions of dollars to put all of their out-
>of-print books into a format that could be printed on demand. I imagine
>that most pre-1990 books aren't even available in a useful electronic
>format. If someone could come up with a system that could take the old
>formats and make them printable on demand then that would be a step in the
>right direction. Still, I don't see most of them overcoming their fear.
>Instead most will be replaced by new companies and a few old ones that
>adapt.
>
> How could we help to get authors like Cook published via online
>or print on demand methods?
>
> By the way, Eric Flint an author with Baen Books has published
>some very interesting articles about online publishing (see
>http://www.baen.com/library/). Baen Books has made some of their
>titles available online for free as an experiment to see if that would
>help or hurt their actual sales. Flint has an article discussing his
>experiences regarding the number of books sold of the ones he had placed
>online (http://www.baen.com/library/palaver6.htm). It has some surprising
>and interesting reading. Perhaps it would be an option for Cook.
>
> Steve
>
>
>=======================================================================
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> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>
>
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: schew@interzone.com (Steve Chew)
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Print on Demand
Date: 28 Apr 2002 05:56:07 -0400 (EDT)
>> But, in the long run, I think that they would benefit much more by
>>making such conveniences available. As we see continually on this list,
>>people want the out of print Glen Cook books. They're willing to pay for
>>them, sometimes pay outrageously. This is true for virtually all authors
>>-- their fans want their stuff. This is an untapped market that could be
>>filled by print on demand. There has to be millions of dollars in sales
>>potential there.
>> Unfortunately, the major publishers are afraid that they might be
>>obsolete if you could just ask Borders to print out the books that you
>>were interested in -- they're right to a certain extent. Also, they
>>realize that it will cost them millions of dollars to put all of their out-
>>of-print books into a format that could be printed on demand. I imagine
>>that most pre-1990 books aren't even available in a useful electronic
>>format. If someone could come up with a system that could take the old
>>formats and make them printable on demand then that would be a step in the
>>right direction. Still, I don't see most of them overcoming their fear.
>>Instead most will be replaced by new companies and a few old ones that
>>adapt.
>>
>> How could we help to get authors like Cook published via online
>>or print on demand methods?
>>
>> By the way, Eric Flint an author with Baen Books has published
>>some very interesting articles about online publishing (see
>>http://www.baen.com/library/). Baen Books has made some of their
>>titles available online for free as an experiment to see if that would
>>help or hurt their actual sales. Flint has an article discussing his
>>experiences regarding the number of books sold of the ones he had placed
>>online (http://www.baen.com/library/palaver6.htm). It has some surprising
>>and interesting reading. Perhaps it would be an option for Cook.
>>
>
>If Baen's experiment succedes we should start bugging TOR about doing
>something similar, especialy for Glen's books. Glen is basically writing
>for the joy and art of it anyway (unless his sales numbers are way up
>since Tower of Fear) so he shouldn't mind too much, especially since
>Eric Flint seems to be selling more books now that he's giving some
>away. Baen did hit on two very clever ideas for their free library: give
>away the first books in a series (James Schmitz has a terrific SF
>anthology available) and epublish in several formats including HTML.
>
Yes. Judging from his initial numbers it appears that it
is successful. It will be interesting to see the numbers that he
said he'll be publishing for David Drake and Mercedes Lackey to see
whether their experiences jive with his. He mentions that along with
a number of other interesting info in this article:
http://www.baen.com/library/palaver7.htm
That same article undermines my thoughts on the likelihood
of print on demand becoming useful for mass produced books. However,
I still think that print on demand and certainly online publishing
will make sense for out of print books in the long run. If, as Flint
says, most of the cost is in the book preparation then it will make
sense to retain the book "in print" via online means since that will
be cheap to do and will increase author recognition.
Steve
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From: JC <jackland@mail.ru>
Subject: Re[2]: (glencook-fans) Print on Demand
Date: 28 Apr 2002 22:41:36 +1100
>>> But, in the long run, I think that they would benefit much more by
>>>making such conveniences available. As we see continually on this list,
>>>people want the out of print Glen Cook books. They're willing to pay for
>>>them, sometimes pay outrageously. This is true for virtually all authors
>>>-- their fans want their stuff. This is an untapped market that could be
>>>filled by print on demand. There has to be millions of dollars in sales
>>>potential there.
>>> Unfortunately, the major publishers are afraid that they might be
>>>obsolete if you could just ask Borders to print out the books that you
>>>were interested in -- they're right to a certain extent. Also, they
>>>realize that it will cost them millions of dollars to put all of their out-
>>>of-print books into a format that could be printed on demand. I imagine
>>>that most pre-1990 books aren't even available in a useful electronic
>>>format. If someone could come up with a system that could take the old
>>>formats and make them printable on demand then that would be a step in the
>>>right direction. Still, I don't see most of them overcoming their fear.
>>>Instead most will be replaced by new companies and a few old ones that
>>>adapt.
>>>
>>> How could we help to get authors like Cook published via online
>>>or print on demand methods?
>>>
>>> By the way, Eric Flint an author with Baen Books has published
>>>some very interesting articles about online publishing (see
>>>http://www.baen.com/library/). Baen Books has made some of their
>>>titles available online for free as an experiment to see if that would
>>>help or hurt their actual sales. Flint has an article discussing his
>>>experiences regarding the number of books sold of the ones he had placed
>>>online (http://www.baen.com/library/palaver6.htm). It has some surprising
>>>and interesting reading. Perhaps it would be an option for Cook.
>>>
>>
>>If Baen's experiment succedes we should start bugging TOR about doing
>>something similar, especialy for Glen's books. Glen is basically writing
>>for the joy and art of it anyway (unless his sales numbers are way up
>>since Tower of Fear) so he shouldn't mind too much, especially since
>>Eric Flint seems to be selling more books now that he's giving some
>>away. Baen did hit on two very clever ideas for their free library: give
>>away the first books in a series (James Schmitz has a terrific SF
>>anthology available) and epublish in several formats including HTML.
>>
SC> Yes. Judging from his initial numbers it appears that it
SC> is successful. It will be interesting to see the numbers that he
SC> said he'll be publishing for David Drake and Mercedes Lackey to see
SC> whether their experiences jive with his. He mentions that along with
SC> a number of other interesting info in this article:
SC> http://www.baen.com/library/palaver7.htm
SC> That same article undermines my thoughts on the likelihood
SC> of print on demand becoming useful for mass produced books. However,
SC> I still think that print on demand and certainly online publishing
SC> will make sense for out of print books in the long run. If, as Flint
SC> says, most of the cost is in the book preparation then it will make
SC> sense to retain the book "in print" via online means since that will
SC> be cheap to do and will increase author recognition.
SC> Steve
Most books in Russia published in free online libraries. Russian
publishers and authors don't afraid that. If I read book on-line and
it's like me, I buy it. And most russian readers do it too.
Sorry fir bad english.
--
Best regards,
Konstantin mailto:jackland@mail.ru
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: JC <jackland@mail.ru>
Subject: Re[2]: (glencook-fans) Print on Demand
Date: 28 Apr 2002 22:41:27 +1100
>>> But, in the long run, I think that they would benefit much more by
>>>making such conveniences available. As we see continually on this list,
>>>people want the out of print Glen Cook books. They're willing to pay for
>>>them, sometimes pay outrageously. This is true for virtually all authors
>>>-- their fans want their stuff. This is an untapped market that could be
>>>filled by print on demand. There has to be millions of dollars in sales
>>>potential there.
>>> Unfortunately, the major publishers are afraid that they might be
>>>obsolete if you could just ask Borders to print out the books that you
>>>were interested in -- they're right to a certain extent. Also, they
>>>realize that it will cost them millions of dollars to put all of their out-
>>>of-print books into a format that could be printed on demand. I imagine
>>>that most pre-1990 books aren't even available in a useful electronic
>>>format. If someone could come up with a system that could take the old
>>>formats and make them printable on demand then that would be a step in the
>>>right direction. Still, I don't see most of them overcoming their fear.
>>>Instead most will be replaced by new companies and a few old ones that
>>>adapt.
>>>
>>> How could we help to get authors like Cook published via online
>>>or print on demand methods?
>>>
>>> By the way, Eric Flint an author with Baen Books has published
>>>some very interesting articles about online publishing (see
>>>http://www.baen.com/library/). Baen Books has made some of their
>>>titles available online for free as an experiment to see if that would
>>>help or hurt their actual sales. Flint has an article discussing his
>>>experiences regarding the number of books sold of the ones he had placed
>>>online (http://www.baen.com/library/palaver6.htm). It has some surprising
>>>and interesting reading. Perhaps it would be an option for Cook.
>>>
>>
>>If Baen's experiment succedes we should start bugging TOR about doing
>>something similar, especialy for Glen's books. Glen is basically writing
>>for the joy and art of it anyway (unless his sales numbers are way up
>>since Tower of Fear) so he shouldn't mind too much, especially since
>>Eric Flint seems to be selling more books now that he's giving some
>>away. Baen did hit on two very clever ideas for their free library: give
>>away the first books in a series (James Schmitz has a terrific SF
>>anthology available) and epublish in several formats including HTML.
>>
SC> Yes. Judging from his initial numbers it appears that it
SC> is successful. It will be interesting to see the numbers that he
SC> said he'll be publishing for David Drake and Mercedes Lackey to see
SC> whether their experiences jive with his. He mentions that along with
SC> a number of other interesting info in this article:
SC> http://www.baen.com/library/palaver7.htm
SC> That same article undermines my thoughts on the likelihood
SC> of print on demand becoming useful for mass produced books. However,
SC> I still think that print on demand and certainly online publishing
SC> will make sense for out of print books in the long run. If, as Flint
SC> says, most of the cost is in the book preparation then it will make
SC> sense to retain the book "in print" via online means since that will
SC> be cheap to do and will increase author recognition.
SC> Steve
Most books in Russia published in free online libraries. Russian
publishers and authors don't afraid that. If I read book on-line and
it's like me, I buy it. And most russian readers do it too.
Sorry fir bad english.
--
Best regards,
Konstantin mailto:jackland@mail.ru
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From: "Amy Weathers" <raistlin@zianet.com>
Subject: (glencook-fans) Re: Where to find Glen Cook
Date: 28 Apr 2002 09:43:07 -0600
I'm pretty sure I've posted this before, but at any rate, ebay always has a
fairly good selection of Glen Cook books.
Currently there are quite a few different Garret Files books (no Deadly
Quicksilver Lies today), as well as a Dragon Never Sleeps and Heirs of
Babylon. You can usually find the cool hard back Black Company book that
contains the first three stories too.
Hope this helps.
Amy
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From: "Amy Weathers" <raistlin@zianet.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Re: Where to find Glen Cook (deadly quicksliver lies)
Date: 28 Apr 2002 09:49:04 -0600
Sorry for the two posts in a row, but I did just notice that there is a
Deadly Quicksilver Lies on Ebay for a buck (plus S/H). Can't beat that.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1533664685
Ok, back to my lurking.
Amy
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From: Pat & Ellen Hannum <hanmac@qwest.net>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Deadly quicksilver lies
Date: 28 Apr 2002 10:06:49 -0700
--------------D97D0F15C150FE2255A6042E
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Yes, Try your LFUBS or Amazon
Pat
don wrote:
> Anybody know if this book is still in print. It is keeping me from
> moving on in the series. Don
> "In time, what's deserved always gets served"- COC
--
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/free_video/
--------------D97D0F15C150FE2255A6042E
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
Yes, Try your LFUBS or Amazon
<p>Pat
<p>don wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><style></style>
<font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Anybody
know if this book is still in print. It is keeping me from moving on in
the series.</font></font> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Don</font></font>
<br><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>"In time, what's deserved always gets
served"- COC</font></font></blockquote>
<p>--
<br>-----------------------------------------------------
<br>Click here for Free Video!!
<br><A HREF="http://www.gohip.com/free_video/">http://www.gohip.com/free_video/</A>
<br>
</body>
</html>
--------------D97D0F15C150FE2255A6042E--
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From: Dennis Knaggs <dennisknaggs@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Print on Demand
Date: 28 Apr 2002 12:28:21 -0700 (PDT)
I think publishing companies will eventually move to
e-books and print on demand to get themselves out of
the trap they've created with their return policies.
If a retailer wishes to return a paperback book they
simply rip the cover off and send the cover back. I
worked in the receiving department of an office supply
store and we would do this with computer books.
Often, the book had never been placed on display
because we didn't have room for it. I've seen
estimates that a good sell through on a paperback book
is 50% of what's actually manufactured. This means
that the price of a paperback book must cover the
printing of at least two copies.
This especially affects lesser known authors such as
Cook, because if the bookstores have to choose whether
to put out a well known author that is guaranteed to
sell, or a lesser known author such as Cook in the
available space, the Cook book will be returned. If
Cook is only achieving a sell through rate of 25%, the
price of the book has to cover printing 4 copies of
it. Since the publishing company needs to keep the
price competitive, it doesn't make as much money on
these books and are less likely to publish an author
who hasn't done well in the past.
E-books or print on demand eliminate the extra
printing cost and would make lesser known authors more
profitable and therefore more attractive to the
publishers.
Dennis
--- Steve Chew <schew@interzone.com> wrote:
> >> But, in the long run, I think that they would
> benefit much more by
> >>making such conveniences available. As we see
> continually on this list,
> >>people want the out of print Glen Cook books.
> They're willing to pay for
> >>them, sometimes pay outrageously. This is true
> for virtually all authors
> >>-- their fans want their stuff. This is an
> untapped market that could be
> >>filled by print on demand. There has to be
> millions of dollars in sales
> >>potential there.
> >> Unfortunately, the major publishers are afraid
> that they might be
> >>obsolete if you could just ask Borders to print
> out the books that you
> >>were interested in -- they're right to a certain
> extent. Also, they
> >>realize that it will cost them millions of dollars
> to put all of their out-
> >>of-print books into a format that could be printed
> on demand. I imagine
> >>that most pre-1990 books aren't even available in
> a useful electronic
> >>format. If someone could come up with a system
> that could take the old
> >>formats and make them printable on demand then
> that would be a step in the
> >>right direction. Still, I don't see most of them
> overcoming their fear.
> >>Instead most will be replaced by new companies and
> a few old ones that
> >>adapt.
> >>
> >> How could we help to get authors like Cook
> published via online
> >>or print on demand methods?
> >>
> >> By the way, Eric Flint an author with Baen Books
> has published
> >>some very interesting articles about online
> publishing (see
> >>http://www.baen.com/library/). Baen Books has
> made some of their
> >>titles available online for free as an experiment
> to see if that would
> >>help or hurt their actual sales. Flint has an
> article discussing his
> >>experiences regarding the number of books sold of
> the ones he had placed
> >>online (http://www.baen.com/library/palaver6.htm).
> It has some surprising
> >>and interesting reading. Perhaps it would be an
> option for Cook.
> >>
> >
> >If Baen's experiment succedes we should start
> bugging TOR about doing
> >something similar, especialy for Glen's books. Glen
> is basically writing
> >for the joy and art of it anyway (unless his sales
> numbers are way up
> >since Tower of Fear) so he shouldn't mind too much,
> especially since
> >Eric Flint seems to be selling more books now that
> he's giving some
> >away. Baen did hit on two very clever ideas for
> their free library: give
> >away the first books in a series (James Schmitz has
> a terrific SF
> >anthology available) and epublish in several
> formats including HTML.
> >
> Yes. Judging from his initial numbers it appears
> that it
> is successful. It will be interesting to see the
> numbers that he
> said he'll be publishing for David Drake and
> Mercedes Lackey to see
> whether their experiences jive with his. He
> mentions that along with
> a number of other interesting info in this article:
> http://www.baen.com/library/palaver7.htm
> That same article undermines my thoughts on the
> likelihood
> of print on demand becoming useful for mass produced
> books. However,
> I still think that print on demand and certainly
> online publishing
> will make sense for out of print books in the long
> run. If, as Flint
> says, most of the cost is in the book preparation
> then it will make
> sense to retain the book "in print" via online means
> since that will
> be cheap to do and will increase author recognition.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
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> of this list,
> visit
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__________________________________________________
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From: David Ainsworth <dbainswo@students.wisc.edu>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Angry Red Skies
Date: 28 Apr 2002 12:01:53 -0500
At 04:25 AM 4/28/2002 -0400, Steve Chew wrote:
>>
>>Spoilers
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>.
> I didn't get the feeling that Relway did it -- it seemed like
>a non-physical attack. But, I agree that Cook seems to be setting up
>Relway for a larger role in a coming book. It will be interested to
>see how he entangles Garrett in that mess. It might be difficult to
>do since Garrett would prefer to stay out of the way. Perhaps it will
>be a sideline that the dead man can entertain himself with like the
>war was in the first books.
I strongly suspect that the Dead Man will be more than an observer in such
a case. I think he's been looking for someone to "clean up" the Hill, and
developed Relway once Glory Mooncalled looked like a poorer prospect.
After all, those people up the Hill are just about the only ones with the
power to cause him any real trouble.
Plus I suspect our lump of dead flesh may have a soft spot not caused by
decomposition. :)
David
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From: Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Print on Demand
Date: 29 Apr 2002 07:42:06 -0300
Steve Chew wrote:
>
> That same article undermines my thoughts on the likelihood
> of print on demand becoming useful for mass produced books. However,
> I still think that print on demand and certainly online publishing
> will make sense for out of print books in the long run. If, as Flint
> says, most of the cost is in the book preparation then it will make
> sense to retain the book "in print" via online means since that will
> be cheap to do and will increase author recognition.
>
After reading the article I'd have to say it offers more hope for print
on demand than it appears to.
For those who haven't read the article I'll summarize some of the
expensive he mentions for book preparation (or at least how I read his
points - feel free to check with the original and then disagree with
me):
1) Being a publishing company - receiving and screening hundreds of new
manuscripts from known and unknown writers.
2) Paying an advance and cover art (plus other ad costs - usually fixed)
3) editing and maintaining a professional editing staff
4) formatting for publication - whether paper, ebook, or any other
format. It takes a skilled professional to effectively layout a book.
5) Proof-reading the final product - and a good proof-reader is worth
his weight in gold.
6) Shipping expenses - physically shipping, paying for the bandwidth,
whatever
7) Maintaining a distribution system.
There are new generations of printing devices coming to the market (it
seems inadequate to cal them printers) that can read a file in the
standard industry formats for layouts and produce a book in minutes.
They currently have some limitation (including a page limit for binding
that sometimes transforms books into multiple volumes), have a very
limited title selection (mainly public domain novels - Moll Flanders,
Moby Dick, etc), and debates about how the business model should work,
but in theory it should be possible when a print run runs out to ship
the book in the same format major presses use to one of these devices.
From my perspective I see it generating:
incremental costs to the author, artist, and some additional
advertising,
shipping expenses
distribution expenses
If the same format can be used, steps 3 - 5 will not need to repeated.
His article also but a statement I came across last year in
perspective. An author was releasing her back list on an epublishing
website and said the interesting thing she'd learned in the process was
the e-site wasn't really a publisher but a distributor. At the time I
thought she was referring to the lack of editing and gate keeping, but
that article pointed out the need for publishers.
Call me a snob if you want, but I hope publishing companies retain their
gatekeeping functions and well as their high editoral standards. I can
live with the occasional typo but when I read I expect a professional
product, not something from a vanity press.
Richard
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From: schew@interzone.com (Steve Chew)
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Print on Demand
Date: 29 Apr 2002 15:22:46 -0400 (EDT)
>
>There are new generations of printing devices coming to the market (it
>seems inadequate to cal them printers) that can read a file in the
>standard industry formats for layouts and produce a book in minutes.
>They currently have some limitation (including a page limit for binding
>that sometimes transforms books into multiple volumes), have a very
>limited title selection (mainly public domain novels - Moll Flanders,
>Moby Dick, etc), and debates about how the business model should work,
>but in theory it should be possible when a print run runs out to ship
>the book in the same format major presses use to one of these devices.
>
Where have you read about these printing devices? I'm curious
to read more about them.
I think that until the publishers realize that the fans want
*all* books available in this manner (assuming the print quality is
high) print on demand and online publishing will remain a niche market.
It has huge potential but the publishers are just too afraid of it.
>>From my perspective I see it generating:
>incremental costs to the author, artist, and some additional
>advertising,
>shipping expenses
>distribution expenses
>
>If the same format can be used, steps 3 - 5 will not need to repeated.
>
That's true. And once those printing devices are in wide use
a lot of their costs could be picked up by the larger bookstores since
they'll draw in more customers. Plus, those costs will diminish as
the usage increases.
>
>Call me a snob if you want, but I hope publishing companies retain their
>gatekeeping functions and well as their high editoral standards. I can
>live with the occasional typo but when I read I expect a professional
>product, not something from a vanity press.
>
Even if that means authors like Glen Cook can't get published?
While I agree that publishers provide some important gatekeeping functions
they are also a bottleneck. They don't want to spend their resources
(editors, proofreaders, etc) on publishing books that probably won't
sell very well. This lack of resources, the bottleneck, prevents many
authors (who have previously written worthwhile works) from being able
to publish their new works. I think that a new kind of publisher, one
who is more of an online distributer, will crop up once those methods
of distributing become popular. The new publishers will take manuscripts
from authors like Cook and publish them. The quality will certainly
be variable but for many readers it will be worth it. The old publishers
could still retain their status as "high-quality" publishers where you
can expect to get a good product every time.
Steve
--
Steve Chew - schew@interzone.com - http://www.interzone.com
"Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else."
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From: Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Print on Demand
Date: 29 Apr 2002 17:44:06 -0300
Steve Chew wrote:
>
> >
> >There are new generations of printing devices coming to the market (it
> >seems inadequate to cal them printers) that can read a file in the
> >standard industry formats for layouts and produce a book in minutes.
> >They currently have some limitation (including a page limit for binding
> >that sometimes transforms books into multiple volumes), have a very
> >limited title selection (mainly public domain novels - Moll Flanders,
> >Moby Dick, etc), and debates about how the business model should work,
> >but in theory it should be possible when a print run runs out to ship
> >the book in the same format major presses use to one of these devices.
> >
> Where have you read about these printing devices? I'm curious
> to read more about them.
> I think that until the publishers realize that the fans want
> *all* books available in this manner (assuming the print quality is
> high) print on demand and online publishing will remain a niche market.
> It has huge potential but the publishers are just too afraid of it.
>
Newspaper article - there are less than a hundred currently in use and
from what it said the selection of books is terrible. If memory serves
it was Xerox or Canon doing the work - expanding their normal markets.
I've always seen it used on the Candian Learn Channel - not that's
there's much to see. It hums a bit (sounded like a normal high powered
printer or advanced copier) and then a bound book was produced.
But one custom = one book loses the ecomeny of scale - which means the
business model is still being researched.
> >>From my perspective I see it generating:
> >incremental costs to the author, artist, and some additional
> >advertising,
> >shipping expenses
> >distribution expenses
> >
> >If the same format can be used, steps 3 - 5 will not need to repeated.
> >
> That's true. And once those printing devices are in wide use
> a lot of their costs could be picked up by the larger bookstores since
> they'll draw in more customers. Plus, those costs will diminish as
> the usage increases.
>
I see hitting an efficiency limit - a process capable of producing
100,000 copies is generally much more efficient that a process that
produces one copy.
The newspaper article mentioned the machine one bookstore was used only
2 to 4 days a week - which means they had a capital item sitting there
doing nothing.
> >
> >Call me a snob if you want, but I hope publishing companies retain their
> >gatekeeping functions and well as their high editoral standards. I can
> >live with the occasional typo but when I read I expect a professional
> >product, not something from a vanity press.
> >
> Even if that means authors like Glen Cook can't get published?
Let me use another author as an example:
Christopher Stasheff. He was once the wonderchild of fanasty. His
first book The Warlock in Spite of Himself was one of those golden ones
that decades later it is still in print. It's even been re-released as
a trade paperback.
His second novel was King Kobold. No one saw the need to subject such a
brighten person's writings to serious editing because, hey, he's the
great writer.
It bomb. Years later when it was going to be reprinted as part a move
to sell his books as a series he refused to all it to be republised
unless he could revise the book. King Kobold Revived is a much better
novel (I've read both) and an editor worked on it.
The link provided before (http://www.baen.com/library/palaver7.htm) had
Flint pointing out that his 13th novel had to go through editing and the
process improved it greatly, and I'd say his 13th novel was much better
written than his first.
I've seen some of the things some of the epublishers are selling that I
wouldn't bother downloading for free. If I go on Joe's <insert
franchise> fan fiction site I'll expect a certain level of work (at
least spelled checked) and be surprised if has anything I'd pay for.
If I invest time and money into a new novel based on <insert franchise>,
I expect a much higher quality of work and if it's looks something like
a first novel published through a vanity press I'd be very disappointed
- to the point where I'd think before buying another book in that
series. I trusted the editors and publishers to help an author produce
quality, I paid for at least a certain level of quality, and I didn't
get it.
If a good author has a sudden financial emergency and tries to tack on
an ending to a first draft that's only have done sell his publishers
wouldn't take it. If for contractual reasons they have to take it they
won't publish it because it's their companies name on the cover (vague
memories of either Joan or Jackie Collins writing a much worse than
usual book that was paid for but never published).
> While I agree that publishers provide some important gatekeeping functions
> they are also a bottleneck.
I agree - but I can't see a way of expanding the resources to do a
quality job for all.
> They don't want to spend their resources
> (editors, proofreaders, etc) on publishing books that probably won't
> sell very well. This lack of resources, the bottleneck, prevents many
> authors (who have previously written worthwhile works) from being able
> to publish their new works.
I know. I've seen a few authors post on the net basically begging for
people to buy their books within a certain time frame so they can
justify their existance to their publishers. Michael Stackpole - he's
been on the best sellers list and has written some very nice book -
posted he was looking at maybe taking a day job to support himself.
If the first two Books of the South had gone through multiple print runs
we wouldn't have had to wait all those years for The Glittering Stone
(then again we wouldn't have had so many BC books so it turned out
good).
> I think that a new kind of publisher, one
> who is more of an online distributer, will crop up once those methods
> of distributing become popular. The new publishers will take manuscripts
> from authors like Cook and publish them. The quality will certainly
> be variable but for many readers it will be worth it. The old publishers
> could still retain their status as "high-quality" publishers where you
> can expect to get a good product every time.
>
I'd hate to a "Garrett Does Dallas (and her four sisters)" book
epublished because something came up and Cook had to raise some money
fast and banged out something in three days. Without the aid of a good
editor many authors can't produce at their best, and it's their fans who
suffer. I've seen a couple of high selling authors produce crap because
people will buy anything with that name on it so the publishers don't
bother to work on it. (Note: their crap is a lot better than what many
first time authors produce but it was crap for them.)
Would we end up with The Annuals of the Black Company (reg pub - reg
price) and The Exciting Serial Adventures of Croaker and his faithful
sidekick One Eye (distributed but not edited, full of typos) for half
price? While costing less will I get the same level of reward for the
time I invest?
Then there's the business model - if RChilton Publishing Inc just
distributes books why would people deal with it rather than SChew
Publishing Inc? What does such a publisher bring to the table that will
allow them to keep their writers working for them? How do I encourage
Joe's Books to buy from my company and not yours if we both provide the
same minimal level of service? How do we both hang when a quality
publisher finds a cheep way to port his better quality wares to our
medium?
Those are the questions that have to be answered before anyone will put
serious ventrue into the model - especially with the internet bubble
still on everyone's mind.
Of course these are just my opinions.
Richard
If I can't an
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From: Eric Herrmann <shpshftr@xmission.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Print on Demand
Date: 29 Apr 2002 14:56:52 -0600
on 4/29/02 2:44 PM, Richard Chilton at rchilton@auracom.com wrote:
> I'd hate to a "Garrett Does Dallas (and her four sisters)" book
> epublished because something came up and Cook had to raise some money
> fast and banged out something in three days.
Hey, I think we're finally back to the "Angry Lead Skies" discussion. :)
--
Eric Herrmann
<shpshftr@xmission.com>
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From: Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>
Subject: (glencook-fans) Angry Lead Skies as part of the series - spoilers
Date: 29 Apr 2002 18:14:57 -0300
Eric Herrmann wrote:
>
> on 4/29/02 2:44 PM, Richard Chilton at rchilton@auracom.com wrote:
>
> > I'd hate to a "Garrett Does Dallas (and her four sisters)" book
> > epublished because something came up and Cook had to raise some money
> > fast and banged out something in three days.
>
> Hey, I think we're finally back to the "Angry Lead Skies" discussion. :)
>
That got comment got me thinking...
>
>
>
>
>
And thinking a bit more.
>
>
>
>
And typing spoiler lines
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>
>
>
>
I enjoyed the book - don't get me wrong, it is a good read, but through
most of the book I was waiting for the other shoe to drop. I knew what
the "elves" were and I keep expecting Garrett to catch on. I half
expected the Dead Man to call them Greys and be done with it or try to
explain the concepts involved. Instead either the Dead Man never
bothered grasping the concept of space travel (possible because of the
alien mindset) or he just glossed over it with Garrett - and I suspect
the later.
Garrett is definitely left with the impression that these guys were from
another kindom while the Dead Man knew they were talking about a
multiple life time journey - which with his knowledge he should know is
unworldly.
At times I almost got the impression that this book was setting the
stage for the next one or cleaning off loose ends from early ones.
Definitely think we're going to see a shift in power levels - Garrett is
no longer Mr. "Former Marine who Works to Put Beer on the Table" but is
now Mr. "Rich Former Marine with so Many Friends on Both Side of the Law
no one can Touch Him with some New Powers". Garrett has a problem on
the legal side of things? He's rich and in good with the cops. Trouble
on the illegal side of town? He's good friend is an assassin, his
former girl friend owns the mob, his junior partner's brother is now
running Rat Town, he's got friends invovled in the Call AND the
non-human side of things.
It short, he's got it made and that doesn't leave much room left for
adventure. No adventure = no plot. No plot = no book.
The way I see it either:
it will all come tumbling down around him in the next book,
or things will shift power levels,
or the series has ended happily ever after with just a few (Relway, the
birthday party) clouds on the horizon.
Richard
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From: "Ron Spence" <rjspence@ev1.net>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Angry Lead Skies as part of the series - spoilers
Date: 29 Apr 2002 18:32:25 -0500
> That got comment got me thinking...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> And thinking a bit more.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> And typing spoiler lines
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> I enjoyed the book - don't get me wrong, it is a good read, but
through
> most of the book I was waiting for the other shoe to drop. I knew
what
> the "elves" were and I keep expecting Garrett to catch on. I half
> expected the Dead Man to call them Greys and be done with it or try
to
> explain the concepts involved. Instead either the Dead Man never
> bothered grasping the concept of space travel (possible because of
the
> alien mindset) or he just glossed over it with Garrett - and I
suspect
> the later.
> Garrett is definitely left with the impression that these guys were
from
> another kindom while the Dead Man knew they were talking about a
> multiple life time journey - which with his knowledge he should know
is
> unworldly.
Let's not forget that Mr Big is with them. Glen mentions over and
over that he doesn't know how far the Dead man can connect with him,
and Garrett keeps being suprised at his range. I wouldn't be suprised
to hear that the Dead man is still in contact with the "elves".
> At times I almost got the impression that this book was setting the
> stage for the next one or cleaning off loose ends from early ones.
Agreed.
> Definitely think we're going to see a shift in power levels -
Garrett is
> no longer Mr. "Former Marine who Works to Put Beer on the Table" but
is
> now Mr. "Rich Former Marine with so Many Friends on Both Side of the
Law
> no one can Touch Him with some New Powers". Garrett has a problem
on
> the legal side of things? He's rich and in good with the cops.
Trouble
> on the illegal side of town? He's good friend is an assassin, his
> former girl friend owns the mob, his junior partner's brother is now
> running Rat Town, he's got friends invovled in the Call AND the
> non-human side of things.
>
> It short, he's got it made and that doesn't leave much room left for
> adventure. No adventure = no plot. No plot = no book.
>
> The way I see it either:
> it will all come tumbling down around him in the next book,
> or things will shift power levels,
> or the series has ended happily ever after with just a few (Relway,
the
> birthday party) clouds on the horizon.
Personally, I think the pressure cooker is going to blow.
Also, don't forget about a possible wedding on the horizon... ;)
Regards,
Ron
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From: Steve Harris <harrissg@slu.edu>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Print on Demand
Date: 30 Apr 2002 11:45:06 -0500
Richard,
While I otherwise agree with your comments on publishing, I can't agree
with this:
"If the first two Books of the South had gone through multiple print runs
we wouldn't have had to wait all those years for The Glittering Stone"
It was Glen worried about his art that made us wait all those years: He
wrote the third volume, then ripped it up and started over because it
didn't do what he wanted it to. And that's how the "third volume"
became four books.
Steve
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From: Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Print on Demand
Date: 30 Apr 2002 17:47:12 -0300
Steve Harris wrote:
>
> Richard,
>
> While I otherwise agree with your comments on publishing, I can't agree
> with this:
>
> "If the first two Books of the South had gone through multiple print runs
> we wouldn't have had to wait all those years for The Glittering Stone"
>
> It was Glen worried about his art that made us wait all those years: He
> wrote the third volume, then ripped it up and started over because it
> didn't do what he wanted it to. And that's how the "third volume"
> became four books.
>
Are you sure?
I had heard that it was a misunderstanding about his contract. At the
time I remember hearing that he stopped work on the draft of book three
when he realized it wasn't pre-sold. Something about having finished a
Dread Empire book and discovering that his publisher didn't want it and
realizing that he'd unvested a great deal of time and effort into
something that would never bring him a dime and vowing never to do that
again.
At the time his sales numbers didn't call for extending the number of
books, but as more and more people discovered Cook interest in the third
volumne rose and his publishers talked to his agent about it. That was
when Cook brushed off the old draft, read it, and decided to over
again.
Cook was a semi-professional author when he did the Books of the South
(I.E. he was published but not supported by his writtings; he needed a
day job because he didn't have the sales numbers). That's why I said
what I did - if the first two books of the south had been best sellers
the publishers would have thrown more resources at Cook and bought the
last book.
You know, I think it's possible to settle whether Cook could thrive on
with a 'distributor' type publisher. The next time he's at a Con or
speaking at a writter's group someone could ask him how important an
editor is to his writting process.
Richard
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From: Steve Harris <harrissg@SLU.EDU>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Print on Demand
Date: 30 Apr 2002 17:04:39 -0500
Richard,
It may be that what we both said is (part of) the truth; they're not
entirely incompatible. But I do know that he said he was unsatisfied
with his draft of the Third Book of the South, and that was the reason
he gave, at some point, for why it was so long delayed.
Steve
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From: Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Print on Demand
Date: 30 Apr 2002 19:06:52 -0300
Steve Harris wrote:
>
> Richard,
>
> It may be that what we both said is (part of) the truth; they're not
> entirely incompatible. But I do know that he said he was unsatisfied
> with his draft of the Third Book of the South, and that was the reason
> he gave, at some point, for why it was so long delayed.
>
You're right, it's probably both.
I always wondered why when the book was mostly written he and his agent
weren't making a huge effort to get them to publish the last book of a
trilogy.
Specially one that ends with you wanting more. The last chapter of the
second book of the south still sticks in my mind as one of the greatest
intros to the next of a series I've ever seen.
Richard
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From: Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Angry Lead Skies as part of the series - spoilers
Date: 30 Apr 2002 19:21:10 -0300
Ron Spence wrote:
>
> > That got comment got me thinking...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > And thinking a bit more.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > And typing spoiler lines
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I enjoyed the book - don't get me wrong, it is a good read, but
> through
> > most of the book I was waiting for the other shoe to drop. I knew
> what
> > the "elves" were and I keep expecting Garrett to catch on. I half
> > expected the Dead Man to call them Greys and be done with it or try
> to
> > explain the concepts involved. Instead either the Dead Man never
> > bothered grasping the concept of space travel (possible because of
> the
> > alien mindset) or he just glossed over it with Garrett - and I
> suspect
> > the later.
> > Garrett is definitely left with the impression that these guys were
> from
> > another kindom while the Dead Man knew they were talking about a
> > multiple life time journey - which with his knowledge he should know
> is
> > unworldly.
>
> Let's not forget that Mr Big is with them. Glen mentions over and
> over that he doesn't know how far the Dead man can connect with him,
> and Garrett keeps being suprised at his range. I wouldn't be suprised
> to hear that the Dead man is still in contact with the "elves".
>
I'm not sure the Dead Man could do it himself, but the visitors had
their own mind powers and some devices (like the language one) that
seemed to boost them. The Dead Man might not be able to reach to space
on his own, but what if they gave him something that boosted his powers?
The fact that they woke him up implies they can refresh his powers - at
least the early books say that he sleeps to recharge his powers.
> >
> > The way I see it either:
> > it will all come tumbling down around him in the next book,
> > or things will shift power levels,
> > or the series has ended happily ever after with just a few (Relway,
> the
> > birthday party) clouds on the horizon.
>
> Personally, I think the pressure cooker is going to blow.
>
> Also, don't forget about a possible wedding on the horizon... ;)
That wedding has been on the horizon at the ends most of the books :)
He was getting serious with his dead friend's little sister at the end
of the first book and almost always has a girl at the end of the book.
Of hand, the only time I can remember him not ending with a girl is when
he ended up with the picture of one; the fact he always gets the girl
and there was only one girl to get was one of the great misdirects of
that books.
One of the things that has kept this series going are the low levels of
returns Garrett earns. At the end of the first one I think he just had
a house and maybe a favour (or something that could get him killed for
knowing) with the mob boss. End of the second (if memory serves) he
ends up with a nice painting, but nothing more.
As so on.
A slow build means the challanges only slowly grow and the setting works
for more books.
I can't help comparing it to another series - the Anita Blake one -
where by book 3 or 4 the heroine had faced down some of the most
dangerous things on the planet. Its author ended up changes settings
(i.e. having the main character travel to different cities) to keep the
challenges fresh because it would be implausible for any real threat to
arise at home - a nice device but I prefer seeing a setting continue.
Richard
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From: "Brooke A. Wheeler" <BrookeAWheeler@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Deadly quicksilver lies
Date: 30 Apr 2002 17:38:36 -0700
Is "Matter of Time" that hard to find then? I bought a copy from Glen
for $5 at last year's Philcon... guess I just got lucky, eh?
don wrote:
>Thanks for the information guys. I actually saw the B&N stuff. I just
>couldn't believe anybody was buying that book for that price. It's not that
>hard to find (except when you really want it). I can see it for Sung in
>blood, Matter of Time, and the Dragon Never Sleeps. Is anyone interested in
>doing a trade? I will have to sift through my stuff to see what I have
>duplicate copies of.
>
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From: Michael Llaneza <maserati@speakeasy.net>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Deadly quicksilver lies
Date: 30 Apr 2002 17:54:37 -0700
If you aren't at Philcon it's hard to find.
Brooke A. Wheeler wrote:
> Is "Matter of Time" that hard to find then? I bought a copy from Glen
> for $5 at last year's Philcon... guess I just got lucky, eh?
>
> don wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the information guys. I actually saw the B&N stuff. I just
>> couldn't believe anybody was buying that book for that price. It's
>> not that
>> hard to find (except when you really want it). I can see it for Sung in
>> blood, Matter of Time, and the Dragon Never Sleeps. Is anyone
>> interested in
>> doing a trade? I will have to sift through my stuff to see what I have
>> duplicate copies of.
>>
>
>
>
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>
>
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From: "S Townsend" <ss.townsend@gte.net>
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) Deadly quicksilver lies
Date: 30 Apr 2002 20:09:52 -0500
I found a copy of 'Matter of Time' stashed the mystery section of a small
town bookstore in central illinois. I didn't even know it existed, and I
have every other Cook except 'Sung in Blood' & 'Swap Academy.'
Couldn't believe my eyes, had to read the first page to recognize his
unmistakable writing style. All that for half cover price, whatever that
was.
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Brooke A.
Wheeler
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 7:39 PM
Is "Matter of Time" that hard to find then? I bought a copy from Glen
for $5 at last year's Philcon... guess I just got lucky, eh?
don wrote:
>Thanks for the information guys. I actually saw the B&N stuff. I just
>couldn't believe anybody was buying that book for that price. It's not that
>hard to find (except when you really want it). I can see it for Sung in
>blood, Matter of Time, and the Dragon Never Sleeps. Is anyone interested in
>doing a trade? I will have to sift through my stuff to see what I have
>duplicate copies of.
>
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