I've finished the book and read quite a few of your comments. I whole-heartedly agree that Cook wrapped things up nicely with Croaker.
Moving forward, I don't think it would be appropriate to have a sequel directly related to the Company. "In those days the Company..." just doesn't fit anymore.
However, think about this. Croaker mentions that Shivetya started the whole thing after the battle of the Barrowlands, laying his seed of thought that would eventually allow him to "die." Now Shivetya occupies Croaker's body and we can assume that Croaker has all of the golem's former powers. Croaker knows what is happening in Hsien. What if Tobo, Arkana, Shurkat and the Children of the Dead return to Hsien and travel north? We know that the worlds are identical except where man has intervened. Does the north have a Plain of Fear? Does it have it's own version of the Barrowland?
Tobo (he really does need a new name, even though Shukrat calls him Tobe) has been brought up right. He could become the great and powerful Oz, aided by his wife and sister-in-law (and maybe Lady, but that may be too much of a link). I wouldn't like to see him become a new Dominator, but perhaps a crisis of faith?
Maybe it would start something like this...
The Company is no more, if it ever existed for me as it had for those that came before. I have taken up the pen that was left, but not as Annalist, as my father would have wanted. I do not know what drives me to record events as I see them. Perhaps it is out of some respect for what he achieved. Maybe it's just out of a desire to see that things will be remembered.
In those days, we were in the service of no one...
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Alternative Authors (was Yesssssssssss!)
Date: 05 Aug 2000 15:06:33 -0700
I don't think you're being fair to TSR fans. I tend to read anything that catches my interest and at times that has been books by Salvatore, Weis & Hickman. I know a few people whose reading material is almost entirely TSR and at first I thought they were simply restricting themselves but I've learned over time that they prefer TSR because they want to read about a world that becomes VERY detailed. It's a personal choice and doesn't reflect ignorance. Just because YOU think that Cook is the greatest thing since sliced bread (and so do I for that matter..) doesn't mean everyone else has to.
Darin
--
>
>I ran into a kid once who I discussed a couple fantasy books with. As
>usual, I tried to introduce him to Cook. He responded, " I only read
>TSR/Forgotten Realms books." I didn't know whether to laugh at him or cry
>at his ignorance. Ultimately, I settled for my default reaction of ignoring
>him.
>
>
Send your favorite photo with any online greeting!
The Howler had been called the Howler for so long (since before his internment) wouldn't be a howl (pun intended) that Shivetya's cure for him undid some of his powers? Someone mentioned (and I agree) that his death was a little too easy.
Also, I find it interesting that the end of the book proceeded a little too quickly. People died without much mention from Croaker. I've been pondering that all weekend. It almost seems that the book was written and Cook had to wrap up loose ends in a hurry. There might even be an "original ending" somewhere in which people do not die, in case Tor (and Cook) wanted to extend the series.
And speaking of people that died, true to his character, Croaker would have wanted to keep up at least with the oldest of the guys, and there was barely any mention of Cletus and Loftis in the book.
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Book Covers (was Alternative Authors)
Date: 07 Aug 2000 15:58:50 EDT
I agree with Steve. I originally heard about the Black Company in a review in Dragon magazine, along with a cover shot. The image of Soulcatcher, well, drew me in and a looked for the book on the shelf.
However, I do feel that the remaining covers have been less than par. The Silver Spike is good, as is Shadow Games. While Shadows Linger and The White Rose do depict images from the books, they could be better executed.
Off the top of my head, I can't remember which book it is, but the one that I assume depicts Jaicur is also evocative of the book's tone.
I noticed that too. It almost seemed as if he realized that there was something wrong. However, it don't recall any cues prior to that (headaches, etc.) other than his complaints about his eye and hand. Perhaps the still did more damage that he first thought?
The problem with fleshing out a book that is in first person is that the narrator (or Annalist, as the case my be) must have contact with the person or someone who has had contact with that person. The Company never had contact with many of the Taken.
Also, I think that in the first series, Cook does a great job of describing "life in the trenches." How many privates in Desert Storm *really* knew what Schwarzkopf was like? To them, he was probably the sterotypical general.
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) newbie talks about Cook and the Black Company
Date: 14 Aug 2000 17:58:37 EDT
Welcome to the list, Bill. You have posted some very interesting comments. You might want to look for the White Company by Arthur Conan Doyle. It is about a free company during the Hundred Years War. Someone posted the Gutenburg link a while back, but I don't have the URL.
As far as finding old books, I haven't had much luck in Nashville (I noticed the email address...and as a former Edge employee, it stuck out like a very sore thumb).
By the way, your quote is originally from Groucho Marx.
I think Bill asked this, but I'm curious too, as I just passed the third chapter of BC. I'd like to know what everyone *thinks* the differences are between the Raker chapter and the original short story. If you happen to know for sure, hold off on your response. I'd like to know personal feelings.
I would think that there would be a bit more background on the Company and the last paragraph (explaining where they went afterward) would be removed.
Good point. I don't think that he would explain how and why the Company got to the north (or even that they were ever in the south) but I do think that there would be a bit more lines like "One-eye and Goblin have been squabbling for ages" and "our merry band of cutthroats." Short stories have little time for back story, but there is at least exposition about the current situation.
You've got to be kidding, Bill. I first read the BC in 1986. I was checking bookstores every month waiting for Shadow Games to be released. Every year since then (with a few exceptions) I have re-read the entire series.
However, I enjoyed your comment about envying me. There is never that spark after the first time you read a great novel. I remember the first time I read the Hobbit, almost 25 years ago. It was, pardon the pun, a magical experience. It was the same way with BC. During the early 80s there was such a rash of tolkien wannabes that the grittiness of the BC was refreshing. It's almost a shame that we have become so familiar with the characters. I am like many others on the list in that I finished SL in about three days. I didn't take the time to savor it. That's why I started the series again. I want to go through the entire story, slowly. It might take me until the end of the year, but it will be worth it.
Subject: RE: RE: (glencook-fans) deaths in SOLDIERS
Date: 17 Aug 2000 11:36:12 EDT
First, let me apologize if my email is not quoting previous mails correctly...I'm using AOL's web client and I can't see the original message when I reply...
SPOILER
I mentioned this earlier (or maybe I just thought it). Think about wishes granted by genies. What if the Howler's power was so rooted in his handicap that when Shivetya "cured" him, it stripped him of some of his power. It would be just like him. The golem doesn't care what happens in the different worlds.
Taking that one step further. Croaker assumes Shivetya's powers because he can study to his heart's content. What if the ability to filter out the activities in different worlds is difficult. Now Croaker can sense everything that is going on, but at the same time. He would not be able to sift the wheat from the chaff. It would be like the Twilight Zone...all these books and a pair of broken glasses.
Right before the battle at the Stair of Tear, Goblin and One-Eye mix it up a bit. Consider this...
"They were off, and damned be the fool who got in their way. Shadows scattered round One-Eye, wriggling across the earth like a thousand hasty serpents."
Now, before you jump all over me, I know that Goblin and One-Eye's work is mostly illusion, but you've got to admit, it's a great case of...
<The reason why is I like croakers tone of voice, and even though alot of
things are very ambiguous, and sometimes do not have the level of detail
that one would want, it brought everything to a nice close, and was told
well.>
I also noticed that Croaker didn't comment that brothers had fallen without their story being recorded in the Annals. That thread runs all through BC. Two things could contribute to that...
1) Croaker is too old to "keep up." All during BC he was volunteering to stay where the action was. He hated the fact that he had to go on the hunt for Whisper and Limper because it kept him away from Lords.
2) Since learning that Khatovar was destroyed, the Annals became less about the company and more as a cathartic release for himself. In essence, the Annals became his personal diary.
Keep in mind, though, that what we are reading really isn't the Annals of the Black Company. I see the Annals as more of a daily report about the company with a little flair added by the Annalist. Remember an old episode of MASH when Radar was sending in his daily reports saying things like "Klinger valiantly came to the aid of his neighbors"? A true copy of the Annals would start and stop a lot. There would be details about a particular action, then many entries that said "Pickles went on turnip patrol today. Looks like we'll be eating potatoes for a month."
Just before the Battle of Charm, and after Croaker is injured, there is a discussion with the Captain about disassociating the Company from Soulcatcher. The Captain says something like "first you're injured, then one of the Taken goes zuzu. And there's that lime thread."
Is this sentence out of order, did Cook miss a scene or did I miss something? As far as I can tell, no Taken goes zuzu between the time Croaker is injured and the conversation. (even though they are all a little zuzu anyway).
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Continuity Error in BC?
Date: 22 Aug 2000 10:33:59 EDT
The Limper's "treason" would be the best guess, if the sentence order hadn't had the comment after Croaker's injury. It would have been months since Limper was subdued.
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Continuity Error in BC?
Date: 22 Aug 2000 09:48:50 -0500 (CDT)
Is this sentence before or after Croaker comes out of the tower?
-Changeling
On Tue, 22 Aug 2000 WinB@aol.com wrote:
> The Limper's "treason" would be the best guess, if the sentence order hadn't had the comment after Croaker's injury. It would have been months since Limper was subdued.
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Continuity Error in BC?
Date: 22 Aug 2000 11:53:20 EDT
I'm not sure, since I don't have the book in front of me, but I believe the sentence was "first the attack on Croaker, then one of the Taken goes zuzu."
> But at the same time, I'm glad it's over in its current form.
Is it over in its current form? Suvrin has expressed much interest in keeping Company tradition...he will pick a new annalist, and the tradition would continue. Cook has many options here...he can assume the disembodied narrator, and delve into company past, he can continue the annalist voice...the possibilities are endless. Or, he could do both, and dovetail them together once in a while. My hopes for the future of the series remain bright, regardless of where it goes...I haven't been disappointed so far, and don't think I will be.
Personally, since it appears that *most* people enjoyed the books of the North more than the South, Cook should focus there.
As others have mentioned, the Domination would be perfect. Hell, even George Lucas has gone back and explained how things came to be. Wouldn't everyone like to know how Limper got that scar from Shifter? Who was the woman that became Shifter's staff? A novel (or group of novels) with chapters from each of the well-known Taken's viewpoint...how they tried to stay out of the clutches of the Dominator...how Lady and the Dominator got together...what the Taken did to catch the eye of the Dominator. The old saying is "Hold your friends close, but your enemies closer." Perhaps they were warring with the Dominator for domination, so to speak.
And who wouldn't want to see the playboy that was the Limper in his early days. Can you image him partying in Opal, making ties with Raven's great-great-great grandfather (and making time with Shifter's woman)?
Properly executed, such a series would appeal to current readers through references in the early books. We would spend time on this list trying to figure out which Taken so-and-so becomes, before the end of the series. New readers would go through the series and then want to move on to the "old" series. Like Star Wars, the series should end some years prior to the existing books...probably when the original White Rose puts down the Dominator and his minions.
And, like The Silver Spike, a separate book could be written that brings Croaker into the Company and up to Beryl. Maybe even two viewpoints...the previous Annalist, talking about how this new kid has promise, and taking him under his wing. This has the potential to be a trilogy as well, with One-eye being recruited.
Okay, Glen...you've got six more books to write. I can wait 12 to 18 years to see it finished. How about everyone else?
