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fractint-digest       Friday, September 14 2001       Volume 01 : Number 598




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 11:32:36 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: (fractint) More on the FOTD

I appreciate the concern of those who feel I should continue the
FOTD, and tell me that by stopping writing I have let the
evil-doers win.  I myself would like to continue the FOTD, but
my mental state will not permit it.  Three people who I know well
(or knew well) are still missing.  If I were younger, I might be
down at the recruiting office, but unfortunately I'm over the
hill and have too many responsibilities to play the soldier game.

I could continue the FOTD, but inflammatory emotional anti-Arab
things and cynical philosophical anti-God things would
inevitably creep in.  I feel that such virulence would do more
harm than good.

When the current crisis passes and things (myself included)
return to something resembling normal, I may indeed resume the
FOTD.  Until then, I'll continue finding fractals and remain
subscribed to the lists.  I'll probably write a few short
stories.  I might even post an occasional parameter file.  But I
will post no FOTD discussions until I feel I can write them in
the proper style.

Until then, if someone wants to speculate why the supposed
all-good-and-powerful God permitted so many innocent people to
be injured and die, I'll be glad to defend my not-very-comforting
suspicion that He does not exist as described.

If anyone feels that this is the wrong time and place to be
discussing the existence or non-existence of God, you already
know why the FOTD was suspended (not as originally stated,
ended).

Jim M.

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 11:30:54 -0500
From: Programmer Dude <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) More on the FOTD

[e-mail] wrote:

> I myself would like to continue the FOTD, but my mental state will not
> permit it. Three people who I know well (or knew well) are still missing.

Jim, my very deepest condolences to you and yours.

> I could continue the FOTD, but inflammatory emotional anti-Arab
> things and cynical philosophical anti-God things would
> inevitably creep in.  I feel that such virulence would do more
> harm than good.

I think we all understand the need to suspend--for a time--those things
that have--for now--lost their meaning.  The human spirit is a powerful
force, and time and that spirit will eventually bring healing.

I'm sure none of us urges you to continue with FOTD during this time of
shock, horror, sadness and pain.  I'm equally sure all of us wishes that
you will, in the fullnes of time, heal and continue life were it was left
off.

I know that for each and every person lost Tuesday there are many, many
left to grieve.  And to wonder how this horror could come to pass.  None
of us, not a single one, is left unchanged.


> Until then, if someone wants to speculate why the supposed
> all-good-and-powerful God permitted so many innocent people to
> be injured and die, I'll be glad to defend my not-very-comforting
> suspicion that He does not exist as described.

This probably isn't the place, unless the group as a whole would like
to discuss this. And perhaps it would be appropriate for this communitte
to talk it out.  What has the rest of the list to say?


As a believer, as one who has experienced God's presense in his life,
I'd like to offer the following:

Where was God when this happened?  I believe God was in the hearts and
minds and hands of all the volunteers who have given so much over the
last--horrifying--48 hours.  I believe God was there to comfort those
who perished.  I believe God is there to comfort those of us who stand
stunned and distant from the events, watching in shock and sadness.

Why did God "let this happen"?  Like any loving parent, God has given
us free will and the ability to determine our own path.  We are allowed
to make our own choices and to determine the course of our heart and of
our spirit.  At some point, parents need to allow their children to go
forth into the world.  They cannot forever shelter and defend their
children.  Not if they want them to fulfill their own destinies.

Why does God allow such horror?  For the same reason God allows such
incredible beauty and such deep love.  The price of freedom is that
evil can abuse it.  The price of great love is virulant hate.  The price
of breath-taking beauty is mind-numbing ugliness.

God has given us great power for good and for building, but the flip side
of that coin is that we also have great power for evil and destruction.
God loves us so much, that we are given these gifts and allowed to choose
our destinies.

Jim, I've had tears in my eyes for two days.  I have much too vivid an
imagination, and I know too much about physics and construction and
explosives.  I project into New York and Washington and those four hi-
jacked flights, and I come undone.  I want to do something.  I want to
be there helping.

So I have some sense of what you--and so many of us--are feeling.  I can
fully appreciate your rage; indeed, I share it.  A part of me wants us to
"nuke those &*$%^# bastards".  Wipe'm out.  Turn the whole disgusting
middle east into a sheet of radioactive glass.

But then I'm no better than them;  my hate no better than theirs.
Justice is appropriate.  We will have justice.  But not revenge.
Ultimately, love is the only answer that truly works.
And love is mostly what God asks of us.

Jim, I'm sure this doesn't help.  A former Senator had a sign on his
desk: This, Too, Shall Pass.  Perhaps those are the only real words
of hope that can be offered meaningfully right now.

This, too, shall pass.

May the peace of God, which passes all understanding, be with you all.

- --
|_ CJSonnack <[e-mail]> _____________| How's my programming? |
|_ http://www.Sonnack.com/ ___________________| Call: 1-800-DEV-NULL  |
|_____________________________________________|_______________________|

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 09:25:46 +1200
From: [e-mail]
Subject: (fractint) From: <[e-mail]>

I don't really have anything to say.

I was going to describe this cartoon, but the link is more accurate:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/cartoons/cartoondisplay.cfm?storyID=216631&thesectio
n=cartoon

Stand strong. We're thinking of you.

Morgan L. Owens


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 18:47:36 -0400
From: Ken MacLean <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) WTC

 Dear fractint members:
if you are lookinbg for an alternative explanation for the WTC
disaster,  go here:
http://www.davidicke.com/icke/articles3/worldtradecenter.html
You won't find any of this mentioned in any news media you listen to, so
it might be worth a look.....
- -- Ken


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 18:43:27 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (fractint) More on the FOTD

<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Dera Jim,
<p>I had no idea that "Three people who [you] know well (or knew well)
are still missing."
<p>My condolences.
<p>I went to a prep school which had an extraordinary number of Classsmates
go into In- vestment Banking, and ended up as employees of Morgan Stanley/Dean
Witter, which we all now know was the WTC's principal Tenant, leasing 1/5th
of the 269 collapsed Floors in the WTC.
<p>Another 4 Classmates worked in the Army/Navy G-2 Section of the Pentagon
(located between Corridors 4&6, Rings B & E). All are missing,
excepting 1 who appeared last night at the nearby GWU' Medical Center w/burns
over 70% of his body.
<p>Apparently, despite the rather incredible fact that <b>only 40</b> of
Dean Witter's 3700 employees in WT Tower #1 or #2, or Bldg #5 are un-accounted-for,
apparently <b>30 </b>of the missing-and-presumed-vaporized are my high-school
classmates.
<p>No outpouring of sympathy requested, necessary, or appropriate.
<p>Just an observation: maybe this will be a wake-up call to us all, including
President Dub (as we Texans affectionaltely erfeer to him).
<p>After all, it took JFK the Bay of Pigs, the Vienna Conference, and the
Cuban Missile Crisis to mature him as a national leader. So far about the
only thing I see that Dub's been able to lead is his 17 y.o. daughters
into the drunk tank. Maybe this will mold him into the leader he is apparently
intellectually capable of being.
<p>Freed
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<p>[e-mail] wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>I appreciate the concern of those who feel I should
continue the
<br>FOTD, and tell me that by stopping writing I have let the
<br>evil-doers win.  I myself would like to continue the FOTD, but
<br>my mental state will not permit it.  Three people who I know well
<br>(or knew well) are still missing.  If I were younger, I might
be
<br>down at the recruiting office, but unfortunately I'm over the
<br>hill and have too many responsibilities to play the soldier game.
<p>I could continue the FOTD, but inflammatory emotional anti-Arab
<br>things and cynical philosophical anti-God things would
<br>inevitably creep in.  I feel that such virulence would do more
<br>harm than good.
<p>When the current crisis passes and things (myself included)
<br>return to something resembling normal, I may indeed resume the
<br>FOTD.  Until then, I'll continue finding fractals and remain
<br>subscribed to the lists.  I'll probably write a few short
<br>stories.  I might even post an occasional parameter file.
But I
<br>will post no FOTD discussions until I feel I can write them in
<br>the proper style.
<p>Until then, if someone wants to speculate why the supposed
<br>all-good-and-powerful God permitted so many innocent people to
<br>be injured and die, I'll be glad to defend my not-very-comforting
<br>suspicion that He does not exist as described.
<p>If anyone feels that this is the wrong time and place to be
<br>discussing the existence or non-existence of God, you already
<br>know why the FOTD was suspended (not as originally stated,
<br>ended).
<p>Jim M.
<p>--------------------------------------------------------------
<br>Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
<br>Post Message:   [e-mail]
<br>Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
<br>Administrator:  [e-mail]
<br>Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe
fractint"</blockquote>
</html>


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 22:15:40 -0400
From: Jim Shaffer Jr. <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) WTC

On Thursday 13 September 2001 06:47 pm, Ken MacLean wrote:

> if you are lookinbg for an alternative explanation for the WTC
> disaster,  go here:
> http://www.davidicke.com/icke/articles3/worldtradecenter.html

I would've expected something like this from Bill Cooper rather than David
Icke, but either way my reaction is the same: there is no material evidence,
so his mythos is no better than the Jewish and Muslim ones that led to this
whole mess.




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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 22:48:33 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (fractint) WTC

At 06:47 PM 9/13/01 -0400, Ken MacLean wrote:
> Dear fractint members:
>if you are lookinbg for an alternative explanation for the WTC
>disaster,  go here:
>http://www.davidicke.com/icke/articles3/worldtradecenter.html
>You won't find any of this mentioned in any news media you listen
>to, so it might be worth a look.....
>-- Ken

I have seen this article.  It is interesting and entertaining
reading, but one thing just doesn't make sense:  If the illuminatti
is so secret, so powerful, and so all-pervasive, why do they permit
Mr. Icke to reveal their secret plans?

Jim M.

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 21:52:17 -0500
From: "Paul N. Lee" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) WTC

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> If the illuminatti is so secret, so powerful,
> and so all-pervasive, why do they permit
> Mr. Icke to reveal their secret plans?
>

So he can advertise his books in every article, and then sell them??

P.N.L.
- --------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.fractalus.com/cgi-bin/theway?ring=fractals&id=43&go

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 23:02:47 -0400
From: Ken MacLean <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) WTC

- --------------6549DBE68116ABABD568B373
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Maybe that's it! If the Iluminati killed Mr. Icke,  wouldn't that would
pretty much tend to validate what he is saying? I don't know. I just
posted that for an alternative point of view. I'm not saying it's God's
truth. All I know is that the video of the WTC tower shows it going
straight down, like an imploded building. The odds of that happening in
an "accident" are enormous.
- -- Ken

"Paul N. Lee" wrote:

> [e-mail] wrote:
> >
> > If the illuminatti is so secret, so powerful,
> > and so all-pervasive, why do they permit
> > Mr. Icke to reveal their secret plans?
> >
>
> So he can advertise his books in every article, and then sell them??
>
> P.N.L.
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.fractalus.com/cgi-bin/theway?ring=fractals&id=43&go
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
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- --------------6549DBE68116ABABD568B373
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Maybe that's it! If the Iluminati killed Mr. Icke,  wouldn't that
would pretty much tend to validate what he is saying? I don't know. I just
posted that for an alternative point of view. I'm not saying it's God's
truth. All I know is that the video of the WTC tower shows it going straight
down, like an imploded building. The odds of that happening in an "accident"
are enormous.
<br>-- Ken
<p>"Paul N. Lee" wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>[e-mail] wrote:
<br>>
<br>> If the illuminatti is so secret, so powerful,
<br>> and so all-pervasive, why do they permit
<br>> Mr. Icke to reveal their secret plans?
<br>>
<p>So he can advertise his books in every article, and then sell them??
<p>P.N.L.
<br>--------------------------------------------------------------
<br><a href="http://www.fractalus.com/cgi-bin/theway?ring=fractals&id=43&go">http://www.fractalus.com/cgi-bin/theway?ring=fractals&id=43&go</a>
<p>--------------------------------------------------------------
<br>Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
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<br>Administrator:  [e-mail]
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fractint"</blockquote>
</html>

- --------------6549DBE68116ABABD568B373--


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 20:39:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: kelly christiansen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) WTC

- --- Ken MacLean <[e-mail]> wrote:
> Maybe that's it! If the Iluminati killed Mr. Icke,  wouldn't that would
> pretty much tend to validate what he is saying? I don't know. I just
> posted that for an alternative point of view. I'm not saying it's God's
> truth. All I know is that the video of the WTC tower shows it going
> straight down, like an imploded building. The odds of that happening in
> an "accident" are enormous.
> -- Ken
>
> "Paul N. Lee" wrote:
>

here is a link to a discussion of exactly why from an archetectural standpoint
the towers fell in the manner that they did

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/57/21641.html

Suggest you go read it

kelly

=====
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Donate cash, emergency relief information
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 22:48:24 -0600
From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) More on the FOTD

I don't object to some off-topic discussion on the issues Jim has raised relating to the September
11th tragedy. This is an unusual situation that warrants relaxing normal guidelines of keeping on
topic.

I propose these constraints:

1. we put a time limit on it - let's say two weeks maximum.
2. we agree to keep the tone of the discussion civil and considerate, recognizing that some
healing needs to go on. ("Civil" doesn't mean strong feelings can't be expressed - it means civil
and gentle towards other list members.)

If there more traffic on this than someone likes, you can unsubscribe yourself, or if you like, let
me know and I can unsubscribe you and then resubscribe you after the thread dies out or two
weeks is up, whichever comes first.

Tim Wegner

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 10:38:37 +0000
From: "Andrew Coppin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) www.fractalus.com

The other day, I got an unwanted email. What did it contain? Porn! (My God I
hope the techs don't check my browser cache... why do I get sent this
stuff?!?!) After that, I felt totally distracted, and had a real hard time
concentrating. (Fortunatly I didn't actually NEED to concentrate on anything
at the time!)

Anyway, I remembered some years back visiting www.fractalus.com. So I went
back there and had a browse around.

OH MY GOD!!! Somebody please tell me why on earth I don't look around this
site more often... It's BRILLIANT! I don't know who runs this thing (it's
probably in the small print somewhere), but it's more diverting then porn.
Recommendations don't come much higher than that (certainly not from
university students like me!!!)

Thanks.
Andrew.

PS. OMG! Someone has already beaten me to applying fractal iterations to
photographs... I guess I'm just too slow...


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


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Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 09:44:40 -0500
From: Programmer Dude <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) From: <[e-mail]>

[e-mail] wrote:

> ...this cartoon,...

Okay, so now I'm crying for the zillionth time in three days.
That one's a keeper.

> Stand strong. We're thinking of you.

Thank you.  Bless you.

- --
|_ CJSonnack <[e-mail]> _____________| How's my programming? |
|_ http://www.Sonnack.com/ ___________________| Call: 1-800-DEV-NULL  |
|_____________________________________________|_______________________|

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 14:40:12 -0400
From: Ken MacLean <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) WTC

Kelly -- thanks for that. I read the article, and it postulates 2 scenarios: one,
heat from the jet fuel started raging fires which, due to the interior
load-bearing and exterior lattice structure, caused the buildings to implode. The
other is the controlled demolition scenario. My problem with the former is that if
the interior collapsed first, we should have seen the exterior falling inward,
slightly later than the interior structure. My view of the video shows the whole
thing collapsing at exactly the same time. I just don't think that the heat
explanation covers what I saw.
Anyway, I want to  issue an apology to all on the list. I never should have posted
that link, it is off-topic, and I won't do it again. We are better off discussing
fractals, and I'll save any political commentary for the appropriate forum.
- -- Ken

kelly christiansen wrote:

> --- Ken MacLean <[e-mail]> wrote:
> > Maybe that's it! If the Iluminati killed Mr. Icke,  wouldn't that would
> > pretty much tend to validate what he is saying? I don't know. I just
> > posted that for an alternative point of view. I'm not saying it's God's
> > truth. All I know is that the video of the WTC tower shows it going
> > straight down, like an imploded building. The odds of that happening in
> > an "accident" are enormous.
> > -- Ken
> >
> > "Paul N. Lee" wrote:
> >
>
> here is a link to a discussion of exactly why from an archetectural standpoint
> the towers fell in the manner that they did
>
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/57/21641.html
>
> Suggest you go read it
>
> kelly
>
> =====
> ******************************************************************
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> "subscribe fractaltalk" in the body.
>
> To unsubscribe from fractaltalk, send a message to [e-mail] with
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>
> __________________________________________________
> Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
> Donate cash, emergency relief information
> http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/
>
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 20:37:22 -0300
From: "Ricardo M. Forno" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) WTC

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C13D5D.0E509720
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

But the tower went down starting from near the top, whereas in an =
"imploding" building charges exploded in the base make it go down from =
the base up. This seems not only politically unexplainable, but also =
nearly physically unexplainable. So I am inclined to agree with the =
explanation given by the newspapers (at least here in Argentina): the =
fire affected the iron structure at the point of impact, making the flat =
(or flats) to collapse. Then the weight of the superimposed flats hit =
the next flat downward, making it collapse, etc. Anyway, it is very =
strange that it did not go to one or the other side and rather went down =
very straight. When the second tower fell, I think I saw a fireball =
coming out from the point of impact, as if an explosion had taken place.
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Ken MacLean=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 12:02 AM
  Subject: Re: (fractint) WTC


  Maybe that's it! If the Iluminati killed Mr. Icke,  wouldn't that =
would pretty much tend to validate what he is saying? I don't know. I =
just posted that for an alternative point of view. I'm not saying it's =
God's truth. All I know is that the video of the WTC tower shows it =
going straight down, like an imploded building. The odds of that =
happening in an "accident" are enormous.=20
  -- Ken=20
  "Paul N. Lee" wrote:=20

    [e-mail] wrote:=20
    >=20
    > If the illuminatti is so secret, so powerful,=20
    > and so all-pervasive, why do they permit=20
    > Mr. Icke to reveal their secret plans?=20
    >=20
    So he can advertise his books in every article, and then sell them?? =


    P.N.L.=20
    --------------------------------------------------------------=20
    http://www.fractalus.com/cgi-bin/theway?ring=3Dfractals&id=3D43&go=20

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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>But the tower went down starting from near the top, =
whereas in=20
an "imploding" building charges exploded in the base make it go down =
from the=20
base up. This seems not only politically unexplainable, but also nearly=20
physically unexplainable. So I am inclined to agree with the explanation =
given=20
by the newspapers (at least here in Argentina): the fire affected the =
iron=20
structure at the point of impact, making the flat (or flats) to =
collapse. Then=20
the weight of the superimposed flats hit the next flat downward, making =
it=20
collapse, etc. Anyway, it is very strange that it did not go to one or =
the other=20
side and rather went down very straight. When the second tower fell, I =
think I=20
saw a fireball coming out from the point of impact, as if an explosion =
had taken=20
place.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=[e-mail] href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">Ken =
MacLean</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=[e-mail]=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</=
A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, September 14, =
2001 12:02=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: (fractint) =
WTC</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>Maybe that's it! If the Iluminati killed Mr. =
Icke, =20
  wouldn't that would pretty much tend to validate what he is saying? I =
don't=20
  know. I just posted that for an alternative point of view. I'm not =
saying it's=20
  God's truth. All I know is that the video of the WTC tower shows it =
going=20
  straight down, like an imploded building. The odds of that happening =
in an=20
  "accident" are enormous. <BR>-- Ken=20
  <P>"Paul N. Lee" wrote:=20
  <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE">[e-mail] wrote: <BR>> <BR>> If =
the=20
    illuminatti is so secret, so powerful, <BR>> and so =
all-pervasive, why do=20
    they permit <BR>> Mr. Icke to reveal their secret plans? <BR>> =

    <P>So he can advertise his books in every article, and then sell =
them??=20
    <P>P.N.L. =
<BR>--------------------------------------------------------------=20
    <BR><A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.fractalus.com/cgi-bin/theway?ring=3Dfractals&id=3D=
43&go">http://www.fractalus.com/cgi-bin/theway?ring=3Dfractals&id=
=3D43&go</A>=20

    <P>-------------------------------------------------------------- =
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Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 20:48:54 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (fractint) WTC colllapse BS

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<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<b>Fellow Fractaliers/ other assorted speculators:</b>
<p>I haven't even  bothered to read what "Ickes" or whoever said:
<p>I have a PhD in Mechanical Engineering and the ability to listen to
the the WTC Towers' #1 &2 Architect's - as well as <b>Forensic Architects
</b>(yeah, they do exist) comments:
<p>SUMMARIZED, their (rather self-evident) comments are:
<p>You put a 757/767 @ 350 mph, w/ an essentially full load of "Jet Fuel
A" on board into the upper 2/3rds of <b>either of those buildings</b>,
and you can calculate - based on <b>Freshman College-level statics equations</b>,
that the structural steel (<b>melting T = ~1000F; Jet A burns @ 1300F)
will have melted within less than 2-3 hrs, the concret columns will have
been severley thermally weakened as well, and the the rest - we all saw
on TV:</b>
<br><b>CATASTROPHIC FAILURE OF THE ENTIRE STRUCTURE, IN WHICH THE MASS
OF THE UPERMOST 20-30 STORIES LITERALLY JACKHAMMERED THE REST OF THE BUILDING
DOWN WHEN IT "IMPLODED" [COLLAPSED ON ITSELF].</b><b></b>
<p><b>1) had they hit the buildings at the very top (Floors 90-110), <u>there
would not have been adequate mass to cause the structure beneath to collapse</u>;</b><b></b>
<p><b>2) had they hit the buildings at the base (Floors 0-> 40),<u> there
was adequate structural redundancy </u>(re-bar concrete columns spaced
<u><font size=+1><font color="#CC0000">every 3ft</font> </font></u>vs the
"every 12ft" specified by NYC Code) <u>to withstand the specified design
criterion of a direct hit from a fully-fueled 707</u>( which has the approximately
the same <u>fuel capacity</u> and the <u>same fuel</u> as the 757 and/or
767<u>)</u>.</b><b></b>
<p><b>So whatever this circular argument is about, it's meaningless: </b><font color="#CC0000">as
soon as each World Trade Center Tower was hit - <b>below the 90th Floor
- -</b> the collapse of the remainder of each building was fore-ordained.</font><font color="#CC0000"></font>
<p><b><font color="#CC0000">I sat there and watched - in complete disbelief
- - as Fire and Police Personnel (let alone ordinary Citizens) - were allowed
within a 3-5 block radius of the obviously soon-to-collapse Towers.</font></b>
<p>What's astonishing is that the<b><u><font size=+2> entire NY FD</font></u></b>
was standing in <b>just the right spot to be decimated</b> - <b><u>literally</u></b>
(300 of their 3000 men). Their ignorance of basic engineering fundamentals
is inexcusable. The Management-level (the Chiefs') ignorance is appalling.
And, NO, they didn't do it to "heroically save people"; ther's not ne shred
of evidence that a sinfgle Firefighter knew he was being sent into an area
that was going to be a 100%-FATALITY ZONE. Those poor suckers were simply
sent to thei death because of the stupidity of their superiors.
<p>I expect there will be literally <b><u><font size=+2>$BILLIONS</font></u></b>
in private lawsuits for Wrongful Death because the NYFD Fire Chiefs (who
were on-scene and themselves killed) stupidly let their Personnel into
the area which was predictably going to be a "zero-survivor zone" - subjected
to the collapse we all saw on video.
<p>Freed
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<p>"Ricardo M. Forno" wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><style></style>
<font size=-1>But the tower went
down starting from near the top, whereas in an "imploding" building charges
exploded in the base make it go down from the base up. This seems not only
politically unexplainable, but also nearly physically unexplainable. So
I am inclined to agree with the explanation given by the newspapers (at
least here in Argentina): the fire affected the iron structure at the point
of impact, making the flat (or flats) to collapse. Then the weight of the
superimposed flats hit the next flat downward, making it collapse, etc.
Anyway, it is very strange that it did not go to one or the other side
and rather went down very straight. When the second tower fell, I think
I saw a fireball coming out from the point of impact, as if an explosion
had taken place.</font>
<blockquote dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----</div>

<div
  style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><b>From:</b><a href="mailto:[e-mail]" title="[e-mail]">Ken
MacLean</a></div>

<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:[e-mail]" title="[e-mail]">[e-mail]</a></div>

<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 14, 2001 12:02
AM</div>

<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: (fractint) WTC</div>
 Maybe that's it! If the Iluminati killed Mr. Icke,  wouldn't
that would pretty much tend to validate what he is saying? I don't know.
I just posted that for an alternative point of view. I'm not saying it's
God's truth. All I know is that the video of the WTC tower shows it going
straight down, like an imploded building. The odds of that happening in
an "accident" are enormous.
<br>-- Ken
<p>"Paul N. Lee" wrote:
<blockquote TYPE="CITE">[e-mail] wrote:
<br>>
<br>> If the illuminatti is so secret, so powerful,
<br>> and so all-pervasive, why do they permit
<br>> Mr. Icke to reveal their secret plans?
<br>>
<p>So he can advertise his books in every article, and then sell them??
<p>P.N.L.
<br>--------------------------------------------------------------
<br><a href="http://www.fractalus.com/cgi-bin/theway?ring=fractals&id=43&go">http://www.fractalus.com/cgi-bin/theway?ring=fractals&id=43&go</a>
<p>--------------------------------------------------------------
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fractint"</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>

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