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fractint-digest        Sunday, October 22 2000        Volume 01 : Number 502




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 22:49:57 +1300
From: "Morgan L. Owens" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) FOTD 20-10-00 (The Oddest Angle [4])

At 01:31 20/10/2000 -0400, you wrote:
>Because of home.att.net's flakiness, I tediously copied the parameter
>entry, pasted it into Notepad, saved it, and ran it to see the results...
>
>>the render time of 11 seconds is fast enough to make the parameter
>>file the most efficient way to view the image.
>
>It took 39 seconds on my machine, at 1024x768 resolution. What resolution
>do you usually use (the Web images tend to be 640x480) and what kind of
>computer are you using? Mine cranks at 400 MHz and isn't a Cyrix or a Celery...

Judging from the first line in the .par:

The_Oddest_Angle   { ; time=0:00:11.50 -- SF5 on a P200

I'd say he's using a Pentium 200 processor and a 640x480 resolution (though
the latter isn't guaranteed - he may be using a makefcfg'd config - but the
size of the posted images helps to confirm it).

Morgan L. Owens
"Hah! Time to play with Fractint? Me?!"



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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 08:13:26 EDT
From: "Multiple Bogeys" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) updated website

Nice site. I like the deepzooms, but have a suggestion for improving that
area. The deepzooms seem to be organized into zoom sequences, but the
sequences seem to be shown in a jumbled order. It would be nice if they were
shown in sequence from least to most magnified in the thumbnail list. (I'm
guessing they were numbered 1, 2, ..., 10, 11, ... and then sorted in ASCII
order, which produces the bogus ordering 1, 10, 11, ..., 2, 20, ..., or they
were named more arbitrary names -- manually ordering them or naming them
001, 002, ... would fix this...)
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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 08:17:48 EDT
From: "Multiple Bogeys" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) FOTD 20-10-00 (The Oddest Angle [4])

>Judging from the first line in the .par:
>
>The_Oddest_Angle   { ; time=0:00:11.50 -- SF5 on a P200

Oops, I forgot about that. :-)

>I'd say he's using a Pentium 200 processor and a 640x480 resolution (though
>the latter isn't guaranteed - he may be using a makefcfg'd config - but the
>size of the posted images helps to confirm it).

Hmm. Mine is a PII-class CPU, so it has better cache performance than his as
well as being twice as fast in raw speed. Yet mine generated slower...must
be the resolution.
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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:47:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Muth <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Re: FOTD 20-10-00 (The Oddest Angle [4])

At 08:17 AM 10/20/00 EDT, you wrote:
>>Judging from the first line in the .par:
>>
>>The_Oddest_Angle   { ; time=0:00:11.50 -- SF5 on a P200

>Hmm. Mine is a PII-class CPU, so it has better cache performance
>than his [Jim's] as well as being twice as fast in raw speed. Yet
>mine generated slower ...must be the resolution.

Yes, it is most likely the resolution.  Virtually all my times are
for 640x480x256 (SF5).  My P200 is optimized for calculating fractals
with Fractint, though this makes little difference with images that
take longer than 10 minutes or so.

With very fast images such as "The Oddest Angle", things other than
CPU speed become more important.  Just for the fun of it, I generated
the image using all the available Fractint algorithms.  here is a
list of the running times.

passes=b --  8.0 seconds
passes=g --  8.6 seconds
passes=t -- 11.5 seconds
passes=1 -- 18.5 seconds
passes=2 -- 18.5 seconds
passes=3 -- 18.5 seconds
passes=d -- 20.6 seconds


Jim M.


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:06:56 EDT
From: "Multiple Bogeys" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: FOTD 20-10-00 (The Oddest Angle [4])

>With very fast images such as "The Oddest Angle", things other than
>CPU speed become more important.

Algorithm overhead, video write overhead (disk-video should make this nearly
nil, with a small residue for updating the text display every few seconds),
and I/O overhead if it needs to swap to disk.

>passes=b --  8.0 seconds
>passes=g --  8.6 seconds
>passes=t -- 11.5 seconds
>passes=1 -- 18.5 seconds

Makes sense.

>passes=1 -- 18.5 seconds
>passes=2 -- 18.5 seconds
>passes=3 -- 18.5 seconds

Makes sense.

>passes=d -- 20.6 seconds

Interesting. Looks like "diffusion" has a high overhead.
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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 23:03:07 +0200
From: "=?windows-1250?B?UHVza+FzIElzdHbhbiBqci4=?=" <[e-mail]>
Subject: The drawing modes (Re: (fractint) Re: FOTD 20-10-00 (The Oddest Angle [4]))

The 'overhead' of passes=d could depend on the video mode you are using.
VESA modes such as SF5 use more memory than 1 segment, and the video card
makes only one segment accessible at a time unless you use 32-bit protected
mode. Changing that segment takes some time. The diffusion mode changes the
segment many times. Also, it draws many filled rectangles unless you specify
'fillcolor=0' - it draws only dots in that case.

I tried the default Mandelbrot set with the SF5 mode and I got these speeds:

1-pass                                            3.46 sec
diffusion with fillcolor=0                7.20 sec
diffusion without fillcolor=0           8.95 sec

I also tried another mode (S3 only, 640*400*16 color) and got these speeds:

1-pass                                            1.26 sec
diffusion with fillcolor=0                2.58 sec
diffusion without fillcolor=0           5.98 sec

You probably won't see these such a big difference with mode F3 (320*200*256
color) because that has no segment switching trouble and it's very fast
anyway.

I don't think that the time taken _only_ by writing the video memory is
noticeable.



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 22:15:49 -0500
From: "Paul N. Lee" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) FOTD 20-10-00 (The Oddest Angle [4])

Multiple Bogeys wrote:
>
> There's definitely something flaky about
> home.att.net lately.  Tonight, I clicked
> this link, and got an RST instead of an
> ACK from my SYN.  When I tried again, I
> got in, but the index list only went up
> to "Convoluted Fractal".  I refreshed it
> -- twice -- to no avail.  Then I went to
> "Convoluted Fractal", altered the URL,
> and got a 404, so the fractal is not even
> there this time!
>

Let me explain how this works:  Jim lives East of Baltimore, Maryland
and uses Mindspring.  I live around the Dallas, Texas area and use
various other ISPs (AT&T being one of them).  Jim sends the FOTD out at
his own discretion, but usually between 20:00:00 and 00:30:00.  He posts
the same text (with the image) on the A.B.P.F. newsgroup, also at his
own discretion.  I usually work until late into the evening and do not
get around to reading my personal email (about 125 per day) until close
to midnight.  At this point is when I finally get around to creating the
current FOTD web page and upload that to my site (along with the updated
index).

I do not get a "pre-release" from Jim (not that it would do much good
with my hours), so I usually receive the FOTD in my mailbox at the same
time as everyone else.  For those that are impatiently awaiting to view
the latest FOTD image on the web page as soon as they receive Jim's
email, will most likely not find it at my site.  I would suggest for
these people to either generate the image themselves and/or go to the
newsgroup.

But I do my best to make sure that the current FOTD gets uploaded to my
site by no later than 01:00:00 (Central Time) of the day for that FOTD.
Most times it's before midnight, so I have met my time zones date and
therefore am "ontime" for that Day.    :-)


Sincerely,
P.N.L.
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 02:03:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Muth <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) FOTD  21-10-00  (Spindles [4])

FOTD -- October 21, 2000 (Rating 6)

Fractal visionaries and enthusiasts:

I've had another very busy day, and it's now 1:50am, so this
will have to be brief.  Today's fractal is another one that was
found with the aid of the MandelbrotMix4 formula.  It's a rather
somber image, with rings of sparkling highlights.  I named it
"Spindles" when I noticed the spindly arms radiating from the
little Midget at the center.  Actually, the spindly arms are far
more prominent beyond the borders of today's image, but when
calculated at that lesser magnitude, much of the inner detail is
lost.  The rating of 6 might have been a 7 if I had had more
time to work with the color.

With a render time of 13 minutes, the parameter file tries one's
patience.  By far the best way to view the picture is to down-
load the GIF file of the image from Usenet at:

          <alt.binaries.pictures.fractals>

or from the web at:

          <http://home.att.net/~Paul.N.Lee/FotD/FotD.html>

The fractal weather was perfect today.  But the cloudless sky
and temperature of 72F (22C) made the fractal cats a bit too
active when let outdoors.  At one time, normally placid Tippy
dashed across the street and was retrieved only after a brief
chase.

The philosophy is brewing; the topic is still not determined.
I'll return with further fractal activity in 22 hours.  Until
then, take care, and I wonder when they'll start giving gold
medals for fractal excellence.


Jim Muth
[e-mail]


START 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================

Spindles           { ; time=0:13:13.06 -- SF5 on a P200
                     ;  Version 2000 Patchlevel 14
  reset=2000 type=formula formulafile=critical.frm
  formulaname=MandelbrotMix4 function=recip passes=t
  center-mag=-0.95640274578812510/+0.00339046234964929\
  /3.555076e+009/1/17.499 params=-8/-0.8/0.8/-8/-2.35/0
  float=y maxiter=1800 inside=0 logmap=250 periodicity=9
  colors=00000Q0`J0`J0ZO0XUCVYNTcZTiiRluPrzNxzLz<13>zk\
  zzmzzozzqzzszzszzuzzvzzvzzxzzzz<8>zzzzzzzzz<3>zzzqzv\
  <2>HzJGzLEzLEvMCsMAoOAkO8gQ6dQ6`S4BS2TU2CU0LW0HW0EY0\
  AY06_02_00a00a00c00c00i00c00_00W40S80OE6JHAFNEBRJ7XN\
  5`R5dV5gX7i`BmbDqeHsgLvkOzmQzqUzsYzvazxczzgzzjzzlzzl\
  zzlzul<3>zXlzRlzLlzLlzGlzLHzR5ob5md5<2>md5mdBmdFkeLk\
  eQkeUke_keckeiignigrigxigz<2>igzeizbkz`kzXmzVozRozPq\
  zLqzJszGuzEuzAvz8xz4xz2zz0zz<4>0zz0zz0zz<3>0zz0zv2zp\
  4xj6xe8xYAvSCvMGuHHu9Ju5Ls5Ns5Ps5Pe5PTLPGhP2rJ0zP0zT\
  0zZ0zb2ze8zkCzoGzuJxxPvzTvzXtz`rzdrzbn<2>zbgzbez`az`\
  _z`Yx`Uv`Su`QsZMqZLoZJmZFkZDhZCeZBb`5_e5Yg5ZiB4kU0kl\
  0mi0og0qe0qa2s_6uYCvWHvSLxQRzOXzM`zJezHkzFmzBozDozDo\
  zFozFozFozHozHqzHqzJqzJqzJqzLqzLszHqzLozMozOmzQmzSkz\
  WizY
  }

frm:MandelbrotMix4 {; Jim Muth
a=real(p1), b=imag(p1), d=real(p2), f=imag(p2),
g=1/f, h=1/d, j=1/(f-b), z=(-a*b*g*h)^j,
k=real(p3)+1, l=imag(p3)+100, c=fn1(pixel):
z=k*((a*(z^b))+(d*(z^f)))+c,
|z| < l
}

END 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE==================================


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 03:34:20 -0500
From: DeBow Freed II PhD <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Multip Bogeys - Spare us please

<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
A plea for sanity and bandwidth preservation:
<p>Is it possible that Monsieur Multiple Bogeys could engage the webmeisters
in private?????? If the exchanges were enlightening, it would be different.
Obviously JM and PL are infinitely patient with us amateurs.
<p>Speaking only for myself, I'm tired of multiple examplars of "Multiple
Bogeys" ', horizontal learning curve. [No doubt MB feels the same about
my non-contributory invasions of Muth and Lee's space, and my rude &
uncivil comment, for which I apologize in advance. MB has just as much
right to learn online as I do to post vapid & longwinded messages (
for which no self-appointed wizard has given me a hard time opnline) -
at least MB is talking about Fractint).]
<p>I thought the discussion group existed for everyone's <b>mutual</b>
- - as opposed to <b>personal</b> - learning curve and enlightenment.[Right:
who elected me asshole of the week? No doubt all subscribers . . . . .
.]
<p>Just a comment. ..  . . . . . [sorry , smileyfaces are against
my religion].
<br>
<p>D. Freed.
<br>AHole of the week/month/year/or [if you agree w/ my ex-wife] the <b>decade.</b>
<br>
<p>Multiple Bogeys wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>>With very fast images such as "The Oddest Angle",
things other than
<br>>CPU speed become more important.
<p>Algorithm overhead, video write overhead (disk-video should make this
nearly
<br>nil, with a small residue for updating the text display every few seconds),
<br>and I/O overhead if it needs to swap to disk.
<p>>passes=b --  8.0 seconds
<br>>passes=g --  8.6 seconds
<br>>passes=t -- 11.5 seconds
<br>>passes=1 -- 18.5 seconds
<p>Makes sense.
<p>>passes=1 -- 18.5 seconds
<br>>passes=2 -- 18.5 seconds
<br>>passes=3 -- 18.5 seconds
<p>Makes sense.
<p>>passes=d -- 20.6 seconds
<p>Interesting. Looks like "diffusion" has a high overhead.
<br>_________________________________________________________________________
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<p>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
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fractint"</blockquote>
</html>


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 15:05:49 GMT
From: "Rupert Millard" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Multip Bogeys - Spare us please

D. Freed,

>A plea for sanity and bandwidth preservation:

This is rich coming from someone who has their HTML setting on.

>Speaking only for myself, I'm tired of multiple examplars of "Multiple
>Bogeys" ', horizontal learning curve.

This is rude.

>I thought the discussion group existed for everyone's mutual - as
>opposed to personal - learning curve and enlightenment.[Right: who
>elected me asshole of the week? No doubt all subscribers . . . . . .]

No, the list is to help people with questions. No doubt I've sent some
messages which other people have frowned upon, but they're all too polite to
say anything.

>Just a comment. ..  . . . . . [sorry , smileyfaces are against my
>religion].

Lighten up ;-)

From,

Rupert
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 11:15:24 EDT
From: "Multiple Bogeys" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The drawing modes (Re: (fractint) Re: FOTD 20-10-00 (The Oddest Angle [4]))

>VESA modes such as SF5 use more memory than 1 segment, and the video card
>makes only one segment accessible at a time unless you use 32-bit protected
>mode. Changing that segment takes some time.

Another reason to update Fractint's architecture for the 90s.

>The diffusion mode changes the segment many times. Also, it draws many
>filled rectangles unless you specify
>'fillcolor=0' - it draws only dots in that case.

Guessing draws just as many.

>diffusion with fillcolor=0                7.20 sec
>diffusion without fillcolor=0           8.95 sec

This box overhead of about 1.75 sec will be the same on all images with
passes=d or g, and negligible compared to calculation time on most images.


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Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 11:19:38 EDT
From: "Multiple Bogeys" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) FOTD 20-10-00 (The Oddest Angle [4])

Let me get this straight. Instead of simply posting the FOTD simultaneously
to the Web, the newsgroup, and the list, the FOTD is posted to the list and
newsgroup and emailed somewhere, and several hours later it is *then* posted
on the Web? This seems a needlessly convoluted way of doing things, and it
means the line saying the FOTD can be found on the Web at <url> is a lie for
several hours before becoming true! Certainly a counter-intuitive way to
manage the thing. It's no wonder people are hitting odd dead links and being
confused.
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Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 14:38:40 -0400
From: Mike Traynor <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) FOTD 20-10-00 (The Oddest Angle [4])

Multiple Bogeys wrote:
>
> Let me get this straight. Instead of simply posting the FOTD simultaneously
> to the Web, the newsgroup, and the list, the FOTD is posted to the list and
> newsgroup and emailed somewhere, and several hours later it is *then* posted
> on the Web? This seems a needlessly convoluted way of doing things, and it
> means the line saying the FOTD can be found on the Web at <url> is a lie for
> several hours before becoming true! Certainly a counter-intuitive way to
> manage the thing. It's no wonder people are hitting odd dead links and being
> confused.

When you complain about how Jim and Paul freely provide you with interesting
and often beautiful images and discussion of them you mark yourself out as
a foolish and ungrateful person.  You are not entitled to have Jim and Paul
arrange their lives to suit you.  If you don't like how they manage things,
feel free to ignore the FOTD posts.

Mike

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Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 15:09:10 -0400
From: davides <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) FOTD 20-10-00 (The Oddest Angle [4])

At 11:19 AM 10/21/2000 EDT, you wrote:
>Let me get this straight. Instead of simply posting the FOTD simultaneously
>to the Web, the newsgroup, and the list, the FOTD is posted to the list and
>newsgroup and emailed somewhere, and several hours later it is *then* posted
>on the Web? This seems a needlessly convoluted way of doing things, and it
>means the line saying the FOTD can be found on the Web at <url> is a lie for
>several hours before becoming true! Certainly a counter-intuitive way to
>manage the thing. It's no wonder people are hitting odd dead links and being
>confused.

Maybe you are right. And maybe Paul, who is doing this gratuitously at no
charge and as a favor to Jim and the fractal community should simply not be
doing it all. And maybe you should have a bit of patience if something
isn't there immediately.
And maybe I'll go back to lurking.


[e-mail]
Back up my hard drive?
How do I put it in reverse?

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Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 16:58:53 -0400
From: Lee Skinner <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) FOTD 20-10-00 (The Oddest Angle [4])

>> Let me get this straight. Instead of simply posting the FOTD
simultaneously to the Web, the newsgroup, and the list, the FOTD is poste=
d
to the list and newsgroup and emailed somewhere, and several hours later =
it
is *then* posted on the Web? <<

Yes, you do have it straight!

You are indeed able to grasp how it all works.  Any other questions?

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Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 23:22:15 +0200
From: "=?iso-8859-1?B?UHVza+FzIElzdHbhbiBqci4=?=" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The drawing modes (Re: (fractint) Re: FOTD 20-10-00 (The Oddest Angle [4]))

>Another reason to update Fractint's architecture for the 90s.


I think it's a small reason - and it's maybe a bit too late to update
something to the 90's :)

>Guessing draws just as many.


I don't think so - guessing fills the screen only for each pass - only 5
times for SF7, less for lower res. modes, and diffusion can fill it many
times - each level fills the whole screen and it has _more_ levels.




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Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 20:30:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Muth <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Life of the FOTD

At 11:19 AM 10/21/00 EDT, Multiple Bogeys wrote:

>Let me get this straight. Instead of simply posting the FOTD
>simultaneously to the Web, the newsgroup, and the list, the
>FOTD is posted to the list and newsgroup and emailed somewhere,
>and several hours later it is *then* posted on the Web?

What happens in the life of the FOTD is this:  When I complete
my day's work, usually after 8pm, I relax with a brief trip to
the world of fractals.  When I find a promising image, I fuss
with the colors.  If the result is acceptable, I make the image
the FOTD.  If not, I try again.

Then I study the image for a few minutes, trying to decide what
to write about it and the day in general.  By the time I finish
writing, it is usually near 10pm.  After a late snack, I read
the article one more time to check for accuracy, then I post the
image and discussion to the Usenet group.  Occasionally, the
Mindspring news server is down, which delays the Usenet posting.

Next I post the discussion to the fractint list and the
philofractal list.  The version posted to the philofractal list
often has material that I omit from the versions posted to the
Fractint list and Usenet group.  I do not send a personal e-mail
to Paul.  He receives the discussion from one of the mailing
lists, and I assume he receives the image from the Usenet group.
When he has the material, he posts it to his web site as soon
as he can, but he too leads a busy life, and sometimes the
posting to the web site is delayed.

>This seems a needlessly convoluted way of doing things, and it
>means the line saying the FOTD can be found on the Web at <url>
>is a lie for several hours before becoming true!

Then wait a few hours before visiting the web site, and
presto -- that lie will magically be transformed into an
honorable truth.

>Certainly a counter-intuitive way to manage the thing. It's no
>wonder people are hitting odd dead links and being confused.

As I state in every FOTD, the image can also be obtained by
running the parameter file or downloading it from Usenet.  If
the time lag and occasional bad links at the web site annoy
anyone, they may obtain the image from one of these alternate
sources.

The FOTD for October 22 is coming soon.  (I hope)

Jim Muth
[e-mail]



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Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 21:15:53 -0400
From: Mike Traynor <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Life of the FOTD

Jim Muth wrote:
>
> At 11:19 AM 10/21/00 EDT, Multiple Bogeys wrote:
>
> >Let me get this straight. Instead of simply posting the FOTD
> >simultaneously to the Web, the newsgroup, and the list, the
> >FOTD is posted to the list and newsgroup and emailed somewhere,
> >and several hours later it is *then* posted on the Web?
>
> What happens in the life of the FOTD is this:

It's nice of you to outline the process of the FOTD, but clearly
you're not doing enough.  You need to show up on Multiple Bogeys
doorstep each evening with a framed print of that day's FOTD.
He just might thank you then.

Mike

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Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 21:28:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Muth <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) FOTD  22-10-00  (Seaweed [5])

FOTD -- October 22, 2000 (Rating 5)

Fractal visionaries and enthusiasts:

I have no idea why I named today's fractal image "Seaweed".  The
word just came into my head and wouldn't go away.  I guess the
green highlights do look a bit like a mass of kelp seen from a
distance, though kelp is more brown than green.  Regardless of
the reason, the name of the FOTD is "Seaweed" and will remain so
for all time.

The whimsical expression -0.1Z^(-11)-1.1Z^(-0.9)+(1/C) was
iterated by the MandelbrotMix4 formula to produce the image.
In its original form, little but a skeletal outline of features
was visible, so I redid the scene with the inside fill set to
atan to add solidity.

Despite my best efforts, the image rates no better than a 5,
which is average and marginally worth the almost 17 minutes
required to run the parameter file.  A far better way to view
the scene is to download the GIF file of the image from the
Usenet group:

          <alt.binaries.pictures.fractals>

or from Paul Lee's web site at:

          <http://home.att.net/~Paul.N.Lee/FotD/FotD.html>

where if it is not already posted, it soon will be.

The fractal weather was once again perfect today here at Fractal
Central, with sunny skies and a temperature of 76F (24.5C),
which pleased the cats.  The cats showed their approval by
staying securely within the bounds of their own yard, chasing
only an occasional monarch butterfly.

The clock tells me it's exactly 9pm; my stomach tells me it's
time for a sandwich; the cats tell me it's time for their tuna.
Add all this together and it must be time to shut down the
fractal shoppe for another day.  Until next time, take care, and
whatever happened to Xylen, leader of the philofractal list?


Jim Muth
[e-mail]


START 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================

Seaweed            { ; time=0:16:48.54 -- SF5 on a P200
  reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=critical.frm
  formulaname=MandelbrotMix4 function=recip passes=1
  center-mag=-1.29310692525035/-5.11258097558134/89623\
  9.2/1/57.5 params=1/-11/11/-0.9/-1.1/2000 float=y
  maxiter=1600 inside=atan logmap=yes periodicity=10
  colors=000kD7hwG<3>iXcNNF<2>vUrhSq0000005Nn6Lo0008Hq\
  <2>ABs<3>QcsPmaOwLUZVZBcVBbRCaNC`<3>18h<3>1P`1TZ1XX1\
  `W<3>ZNRgKQoHPwEO<3>bBfYAjT9oO9s<3>bmA<3>8fN1eQDYR<2\
  >iDU<3>R5PyS7c9z<3>PUdLZZHcUEhP<3>ewBkz8blJ<2>C8o<3>\
  44CK0NKJA`YIqlPZ1MVGYSVhPrx3EM<2>l2P<3>s6Lu7Kv8JTqm<\
  3>MShKLgJFfH8eG2d<3>7`c5ic3qc<3>jy6<3>gf`gbhfYpfUw<3\
  >Y0k<3>fIsiMukRwmVyoZzKts<3>S`pUWoWRnYMmZIm<3>N`aKdZ\
  HiWEmTBeY8Yb<3>VcP000feJkfG<2>cLW<3>oqzdj_hh`lgae9l<\
  4>jEqj7qh9o<3>`GjcQieahhjfjsilzk<2>VeuPZxH`kAaZ3bN<3\
  >LpQPtQTwRXzR<2>wza<3>NzFEzAGzDHzFJzHKzJ<3>HzA<3>Nz8\
  Oz8Qz7Rz7Sz7<3>7zt<6>Wzxbzliz`hzW
  }

frm:MandelbrotMix4 {; Jim Muth
a=real(p1), b=imag(p1), d=real(p2), f=imag(p2),
g=1/f, h=1/d, j=1/(f-b), z=(-a*b*g*h)^j,
k=real(p3)+1, l=imag(p3)+100, c=fn1(pixel):
z=k*((a*(z^b))+(d*(z^f)))+c,
|z| < l
}

END 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE==================================


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Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 21:10:18 -0700
From: Ken Childress <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Contest 2K CDROM Orders

Hi Everyone,

I know everyone is anxiously awaiting Damien to complete the contest
site, which is hopefully very soon.  I know everyone appreciates
the effort Damien is putting in, and I'm sure he appreciates the
patience everyone is exhibiting.

Since many of you are planning to order the contest site on CDROM
for easier viewing, Damien asked me to send out this message so that
you might get a jump on that process.

I will be handling the processing of the orders, so I wanted to get
the ordering information out so that those interested could send in
their orders in advance to speed up receipt of the CDROMs once the
site is finished.  I'll will be accepting orders for those of you
in the US, and also other parts of North and South America.  Other
locations will be handled by another person.

For those of you in the US, the cost is $7.00.  If the CD is to be
shipped outside of the US, the cost is $10.00.  Payment may be made
by check, money order, cashiers check in US funds only.  Cash will
be accepted, but you send that at your own risk.

Send orders to:

Ken Childress
2412 Mathews Ave., #5
Redondo Beach, CA  90278

You may also wish to send me an email indicating that the "check is
in the mail".  :-)

Please do not post my address on any other lists.  I'll be making a
separate annoucement on the news groups.

If there are any questions, please contact me privately.


Ken...


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Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 01:06:54 -0400
From: Harry Bissell <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Life of the FOTD

Tee Hee...

Hey this is GREAT.  Nothing like a nice flamewar to get the blood
boiling again.  Knock each other out !!!

<lurk mode resume...............zzzzzz>

H^)  harry

Mike Traynor wrote:

> Jim Muth wrote:
> >
> > At 11:19 AM 10/21/00 EDT, Multiple Bogeys wrote:
> >
> > >Let me get this straight. Instead of simply posting the FOTD
> > >simultaneously to the Web, the newsgroup, and the list, the
> > >FOTD is posted to the list and newsgroup and emailed somewhere,
> > >and several hours later it is *then* posted on the Web?
> >
> > What happens in the life of the FOTD is this:
>
> It's nice of you to outline the process of the FOTD, but clearly
> you're not doing enough.  You need to show up on Multiple Bogeys
> doorstep each evening with a framed print of that day's FOTD.
> He just might thank you then.
>
> Mike
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 02:47:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Re: (fractint) Another fractal greeting card URL

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Speaking as a woman...

I prefer the sharp angles and bright, intense color pallets of the
fractal greeting cards.  I'm shocked that fractals are not appreciated
for being...Fractals! by more members of my sex.

Hey girls, ladies, women...wake up and enjoy the fractals!!!

I find that too much sentiment and not enough art spoils the fun of
sending email cards and I'm tired of the "usual" fare at the "usual"
email card web sites.  Cute n' cuddly?  Not for me.  An "edge" is
refreshing.

Carolann Brock


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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 17:34:48 -0500
From: DeBow Freed II PhD <[e-mail]>
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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Harry-
<p>I agree.
<p>Give ME the angular shapes and great palettes, too.
<p>But please ALSO give me some of the ones the ladies (or <u>whoever</u>
has different taste than ours - not my sexist reference) seem to find less
threatening. It's not an all-or-none phenomenon (check out Bob's Galleries),
merely a comment & question about an observed sexually and otherwise
(e.g., also a function of exposure to fractals/PC's) dimorphic response
pattern, intended to ask about others' personal marketing- or neuro-physiologic
response.
<p>I can see where this is heading - let's not go there - <u>please re-read
Para's 3-4 of my original message.</u>
<p>DBF
<br>
<br>
<p>Harry Bissell wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>Nah... there is enough "My Little Pony" images in
the world now... and I
<br>really have
<br>had enough of "Silly Love Songs"....
<p>There is no problem with angular shapes, hard metallic colors... its
<br>just that WOMEN
<br>shop in the Hallmark store, not men (no market there...) so production
<br>favors kitch!
<p>Give me the ultra hard razor sharp fractal greeting cards !!!
Death
<br>Metal Forever !!!
<p>H^)  (as)  Idi Amin, Uganda.
<p>DeBow Freed II PhD wrote:
<p>> Dear Bob,
<br>>
<br>> Thanks for the heads up on fractal greeting cards - both your own
and
<br>> the site listed below. What a thoughtful and well-timed contribution!
<br>>
<br>> I have a question/comment and am posting it rather than sending it
to
<br>> you personally because I wonder how others feel - or observe the
same
<br>> response among their acquaintances that I did this morning.
<br>>
<br>> First, the qualifiers: I feel particularly foolish making this comment
<br>> at all as I have nothing of my own in the way of images to offer,
and
<br>> what you have done is so nice. But you guys and the Ultrafrac people
<br>> haves bundles of additional images.
<br>> And I hope that my comment is not taken as sexist (or UltraFract-ist),
<br>> because it's not meant to be - just an observation of human behavior
<br>> (albeit lubricated by ethanol).
<br>>
<br>> Finally, a quick poll of my friends at aol, yahoo and other free
<br>> Greeting Card services confirms the unsurprising fact that images
with
<br>> softer colors and less angular composition are more popular because
<br>> they are perceived to be consistent with the content of the sentiment,
<br>> which is usually positive, friendly, or more than friendly.
<br>> Apparently, it's neurophysiologically confusing to most people to
<br>> receive an image that looks like "somebody's decapitated head in
the
<br>> middle of a futuristic four-bladed guillotine" (a description of
your
<br>> "Picture" #8, in the middle of the third row).
<br>>
<br>> My question is whether images of a somewhat softer, more "inviting"
<br>> nature - both with respect to coloration and composition - might
be
<br>> included among the choices at the herenthere site. For example, Bob,
<br>> the image positioned at the lower left-hand corner of your set (#10
of
<br>> 12) uses a softer palette than all the others, and is - to me, at
<br>> least - much more likely to provoke a positive response from a (let's
<br>> say) hospitalized recipient than are the others. Same comment for
the
<br>> images offered at the forevermoments site.
<br>>
<br>> Think rainbow colors and rounder shapes. Think boring - which I know
<br>> is difficult for you - and what you'll offer in addition to the
<br>> present images will be, I think, much more popular with the
<br>> recipients, less potentially frightening, terrifying oor confusing
to
<br>> the uninitiated, and I think overall, much more useful.
<br>>
<br>> I did a little market survey at a Brunch this morning here in Dallas,
<br>> and what a hit your Greeting Cards were! However, the reponse was
<br>> almost universally what I have described: non-fractaliers were
<br>> consistently more comfortable with the softer-colors and less angular
<br>> shapes, and often misinterpreted the combination of most of the
<br>> sentiments and images as "sarcastic" or "insulting" (!!). Weird but
<br>> true.
<br>>
<br>> A revelatory example: one group at this morning's Brunch was
<br>> delighting in matching sentiments like "thinking of you", and "get
<br>> well soon" with some of the more techno-spectacular cards, and signing
<br>> them "Jeffrey Dahmer", "Dracula", and "Your Worst Nightmare". I'll
let
<br>> you guess the sex of that group.
<br>>
<br>> Across the room at the other laptop, the girls were desperately trying
<br>> to generate a Javascript plug-in to automatically attach an add-on
to
<br>> the available Sentiments to create an APOLOGY to the recipient to
<br>> conveyed that "it wasn't meant to be sarcastic."
<br>>
<br>> Lots of people - the vast majority, in fact, don't have a clue what
a
<br>> fractal is anyway. They're looking for a "pretty picture". You and
I
<br>> can appreciate what an incredible tour-de-force most of you proffered
<br>> images are from a technical standpoint, but the harsh angularities
and
<br>> metallic palette of most are a turn-off.
<br>>
<br>> At any rate, this is in no way intended as anything other than a
<br>> gratuitous comment and report to you of this morning's interesting
(I
<br>> thought) but statistically-insignificant marketing survey. Maybe
all
<br>> it represents is the effect of too many Mimosa's and Bloody Mary's
on
<br>> a crowd with diverse backgrounds and little familiarity with
<br>> cutting-edge fractals imagery.
<br>>
<br>> It is certainly not a suggestion that you "dumb-down" the images
you
<br>> make available for Cards. God knows there are enough stupid cartoons
<br>> and Hallmark-y email cards out there wasting the World's bandwidth.
<br>> Just wondering if you could toss in some of your more colorful (i.e.,
<br>> primary colors), less angular images.
<br>>
<br>> Thanks again for making such an outstanding contribution and for
<br>> sharing it with the rest of us.
<br>>
<br>> DeBow Freed
<br>> <[e-mail]>
<br>>
<br>>
<br>>
<br>> Bob Margolis wrote:
<br>>
<br>>> Free animated fractal greeting cards:
<br>>>
<br>>> Forever Moments
<br>>> <a href="http://www.forevermoments.net/fractalpostcards.html">http://www.forevermoments.net/fractalpostcards.html</a>
<br>>>
<br>>> Bob
<br>>>
<br>>> --------------------------------------------------------------
<br>>> Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion
List
<br>>>
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<br>>> Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
<br>>> Administrator:  [e-mail]
<br>>> Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe
fractint"
<br>>
<br>> -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks
<br>> for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post
<br>> Message: [e-mail] Get Commands:
<br>> [e-mail] "help" Administrator:
<br>> [e-mail] Unsubscribe: [e-mail]
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<p>--------------------------------------------------------------
<br>Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
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fractint"</blockquote>
</html>


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End of fractint-digest V1 #502
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