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fractint-digest         Tuesday, July 14 1998         Volume 01 : Number 258




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:03:54 -0700
From: "Mike and Linda Allison" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint)  New gallery

Having a wonderful time!  Drop in and say, "Hi!"

Linda
http://www/fractalus.com/gumbycat/gallery3.html


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Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:30:35 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) 8 pars(gallet302&303)

Here's some really nice stuff to gaze at.....Enjoy~

Jim
******************************************************************

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 12:28:39 -0500
From: "Paul N. Lee" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Re: New gallery

Mike and Linda Allison wrote:
>
> http://www/fractalus.com/gumbycat/gallery3.html
>

If anyone has a problem, try the following:

   http://www.fractalus.com/gumbycat/gallery3.html

- -------------------------------------------------
     Why do most folks hate cynics so much?
       Because we're almost always right.
- -------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 12:43:04 -0500
From: "Paul N. Lee" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Re:  Contest

Lee Skinner wrote:
>
> Sylvie Gallet wrote:
> >
> > I'd really prefer a "Fractint only" contest.  Not that
> > I don't like images created with other programs but,
> > as I have a slow modem, I don't want to spend many
> > hours in downloading hundreds of images.
> >
>
> I totally agree.  One way would be to put all the pars into
> one file that could be downloaded after a deadline for par
> submittals.  Then give some time to generate the pars.  If
> post-processed images and non-Fractint images are to be
> included in the contest, then the time to download those
> would be considerably shorter and more acceptable than
> downloading everything.
>

I totally disagree.  Just because some individuals don't want to take
the time to view images created by various different programs and
methods outside of FractInt, doesn't mean that those images should not
be a part of a FRACTAL Contest.

The FractInt submitted images can still be put into a collective file of
PARs and FRMs so that anyone who wishes may download and run from their
machines.  All others can be viewed from the Fractalus Server as
images.  This would not mean that there will be hundreds of non-FractInt
images to view.

Is this going to be presented to the Fractal-Art List for those others
that aren't on this list to put in their two cents, or will a decision
be made without evening considering their opinions?

- -------------------------------------------------
     Why do most folks hate cynics so much?
       Because we're almost always right.
- -------------------------------------------------
http://www.fractalus.com/cgi-bin/theway?ring=fractals&id=43&go

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Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 15:28:51 -0400
From: Lee Skinner <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Re:  Contest

Paul,

>>I totally disagree.  Just because some individuals don't want to take t=
he
time to view images created by various different programs and methods
outside of FractInt, doesn't mean that those images should not be a part =
of
a FRACTAL Contest.<<<

I don't object to non-fractint images.  I'm just saying that the time (an=
d
expense) of downloading images where pars could be downloaded instead cou=
ld
be decreased if the pars were availiable.

>>The FractInt submitted images can still be put into a collective file o=
f
PARs and FRMs so that anyone who wishes may download and run from their
machines.  All others can be viewed from the Fractalus Server as images. =

This would not mean that there will be hundreds of non-FractInt images to=

view.<<

There were 147 images last time.  We have more people now.

>>Is this going to be presented to the Fractal-Art List for those others
that aren't on this list to put in their two cents, or will a decision be=

made without evening considering their opinions?<<

If non-Fractint images are to be included, the contest should probably be=

run on the the fractal-art list.  Afterall, this is a Fractint specific
mailing list.

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:12:16 -0700
From: "Faye Williams" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Re:  Contest

- -----Original Message-----
From: Lee Skinner <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Monday, July 13, 1998 12:32 PM
Subject: (fractint) Re: Contest


snipped
I don't object to non-fractint images.  I'm just saying that the time (and
expense) of downloading images where pars could be downloaded instead could
be decreased if the pars were availiable.

>>
The zars from Tierazon, inks from Itinerations, etc. can
also be downloaded as easily as pars.

Faye


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 16:28:47 -0400
From: Lee Skinner <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Re:  Contest

Faye,

>>The zars from Tierazon, inks from Itinerations, etc. can also be
downloaded as easily as pars.<<

My point exactly. Give viewers a choice. I would download a Tierazon imag=
e
as I don't use Tierazon.  Those that do can download the zar.  But it
sometimes take me 45 minutes to download a detailed fractal image that ca=
n
be recomputed under two minutes and doesn't tie up my phone line.

The purpose fractal-art list is to showcase all types of fractal-art and
should be the medium for an all inclusive fractal contest.  It would make=

more sense for a contest on the Fractint list one that would showcase the=

capabilities of the Fractint program, and perhaps also allow
post-processing.

Lee

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Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 15:53:22 -0500
From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Re:  Contest - points to consider

I'll try to make this an all-inclusive reply.  First, the important bit:
I've posted a *PRELIMINARY* set of rules and built a contest web site.  You
can check it out here:

    http://www.fractalus.com/contest98/

Any comments on the rules as posted can be sent directly to me.  Now, on to
more specific responses.

Angela,

 - 6 weeks to fractal seems about right and ought to bridge most vacations
 - and interruptions caused by the dreaded work or other annoyances.

The consensus seems to be that six weeks is enough.

 - Although many of my category suggestions were made very tongue in cheek,
 - I do think we ought to have at least a couple of non-serious categories.

I think this is a good idea.

 - Did anyone post an invite to the fractal-art list for entries?? Is Damien
 - ready to post here there and everywhere the proposed categories??

Yes, I'm ready.

Gedeon,

 - Why rely on an "honor" system?

Because any determined cheater could work around the restriction if they
really wanted to.  I have clarified the requirement in the preliminary
rules, though.

Sylvie, Lee,

Regarding downloading hundreds of images: I don't see any reason why the
PARs for FractInt images can't be downloaded once the voting period starts.
 And similar parameter files for other programs, where appropriate, of course.

Paul,

 - Is this going to be presented to the Fractal-Art List for those others
 - that aren't on this list to put in their two cents, or will a decision
 - be made without evening considering their opinions?

I will post a notice there today.  This will probably be my last post to
the FractInt list on this topic. :-)

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  http://www.icd.com/tsd/ (temporary sanity designs)
                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/ (fractals are my hobby)

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 15:12:12 -0700
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (fractint) contest

For a category in the contest I suggest the best portrayal of an
emotion.
The image will have to be titled with a one word emotion or feeling such
as
sadness, bliss, ecstasy, anger, lust, indecision, laughter, pride,
greed, joy,
reverence, contentment etc... and will be judged on how well the fractal
captures/expresses that emotion.

Jim

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 18:20:19 -0400
From: Sylvie Gallet <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Re:  Contest

Lee et al,

>> I don't object to non-fractint images.  I'm just saying that the time
>> (and expense) of downloading images where pars could be downloaded
>> instead could be decreased if the pars were availiable.

  I totally agree.

        - Sylvie


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Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 18:06:01 -0700
From: "Jay Hill" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Contest - points to clear up

Hi artists,

There are several obvious benefits to these contests. One is
the feed back the artist will get from the comments. (Alas,
images not getting votes will not get this benefit, even though
it is there most needed). Another is what we all learn from
studying the technique of the winners (or runner ups we
really enjoyed). One reason I stopped reading the binary
download Usenet group is there was nothing to be learned
about technique. We just look, admire and wonder. :-(

So, with that, here are some questions.

We need to make clear the use of formula files, in Fractint,
they are the frm files.

a) Can we use any posted by others such as Paul Carlson's
(sure winners in there). [Hmmm... same question for
color maps.]
b) Can we create new ones?
c) ditto a) and b) for non-Fractint programs.
d) Can we use programs from on any platform? Even UNIX?
e) Are all parameter/formula files to be made public along with
submission of image (or after contest close)?
f) Can we use new programs made special for this contest?
g) Would said programs have to them be posted?
h) Are all details of post processing processes to be disclosed
(so as to be reproducible)?

Clearly, the information transfer should occur after contest
close (Sep 5) but before judging can begin. The questions
are how much information is required and how much freedom
to create do we have?

Side note: the image should have an indication of the artists
preferred save name, so we can all sing to the same music
in referring to images. That goes for now and in the distant
future.

In some cases there may be a preferred image setting (rows
X columns X colors).


Jay
PS. Can we make 'teh' an official alternate
spelling for 'the'? Oh nevermind.


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 20:51:47 -0600
From: "mctupper" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) RE: Contest - points to clear up

Jay Hill spoke thusly:
<some stuff snipped for brevity>
|There are several obvious benefits to these contests. One is
|the feed back the artist will get from the comments. (Alas,
|images not getting votes will not get this benefit, even though
|it is there most needed).


Another is what we all learn from
|studying the technique of the winners (or runner ups we
|really enjoyed).

How about an open forum/guestbook or something, so people can make
constructive comments to all entrants. Maybe even make it accesible to
everybody, so we can all learn.

|e) Are all parameter/formula files to be made public along with
|submission of image (or after contest close)?

I certainly hope so. I learned a lot from the last contest.

|h) Are all details of post processing processes to be disclosed
|(so as to be reproducible)?

In this case, I don't think it would be a good idea. The images with that
much work in them deserve to remain the exclusive property of the creator.
I'd be happy just to know the general programs and techniques.


|PS. Can we make 'teh' an official alternate
|spelling for 'the'? Oh nevermind.

I approve of that idea.  :)

Xylen
I live in another Dimension. I just have a summer home in Reality.


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Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 21:52:56 -0500
From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Contest - points to clear up

Jay,

Please see my reply on the Fractal-Art list.

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  http://www.icd.com/tsd/ (temporary sanity designs)
                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/ (fractals are my hobby)

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Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 03:16:43 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Contest(2 cents worth)

Fractint is the only fractal generator I've used.  I'm running Win3.1,
therefore I couldn't use Tierazon or Iterations, although I am anxious to
try....someday.  For the present, Fractint is quite satisfactory to
me....however, this IS the Fractint listserver, and I feel the contest should
be for Fractint produced images. Maybe there should be a Tierazon and
Iterations listserver?  Or else maybe just move the whole contest to the
Fractal Art list!  I also feel the images should be in raw, unretouched
format......just my opinion.  I have nothing more to say, ....I have no
*cents* <G>.....besides, I'd rather go make some more images.
G'nite~

Jim


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Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 07:50:31 -0700
From: "Angela Wilczynski" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Re:  Contest

I think if your idea about bundling a fractint par file for those with slow
modems were implemented, much of the download problem would be resolved.  Maybe
Damien would be kind enough to zip up the remaining gifs/jpgs as well? Perhaps a
file-size limit would be helpful.  How about 250K per image?  That's pretty
generous, but some folks might need to convert from .bmp (which is HUGE) to jpg
to get to the right size.  Maybe even a smaller file size limit is in order.....

I do like the idea of seeing Fractint in competition with other programs and Tim
has said he has no objections to us discussing other programs on this list.

Lee Skinner wrote:
>
> Paul,
>
> >>I totally disagree.  Just because some individuals don't want to take the
> time to view images created by various different programs and methods
> outside of FractInt, doesn't mean that those images should not be a part of
> a FRACTAL Contest.<<<
>
> I don't object to non-fractint images.  I'm just saying that the time (and
> expense) of downloading images where pars could be downloaded instead could
> be decreased if the pars were availiable.
<<snipped>
> If non-Fractint images are to be included, the contest should probably be
> run on the the fractal-art list.  Afterall, this is a Fractint specific
> mailing list.
>
>

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Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 07:55:49 -0700
From: "Angela Wilczynski" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) contest

I like this one!!!!!!!!! Get's my vote as a category.

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> For a category in the contest I suggest the best portrayal of an
> emotion.
> The image will have to be titled with a one word emotion or feeling such
> as
> sadness, bliss, ecstasy, anger, lust, indecision, laughter, pride,
> greed, joy,
> reverence, contentment etc... and will be judged on how well the fractal
> captures/expresses that emotion.
>
> Jim
>

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Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 11:26:12 -0400
From: "Peter Gavin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Contest

If we decide to post the images for download, I suggest we use the PNG
format rather than the JPG format.  JPG is too lossy and it makes the images
look grainy.  PNG isn't lossy at all, and it provides far better compression
over GIF, and for images such as fractals or other computer generated art,
GIF (which is PNG's grandfather) is superior to JPG.  JPG is designed for
photographs and 'real' images.  PNG is designed to replace GIF, so I think
it is definitely the way to go.

Pete
<[e-mail]>


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Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 09:18:18 -0700
From: [e-mail]
Subject: (fractint) Re: format

I am considering adding to my fractal software output of .PAR and
.FRM files so I can still search for fractals with my software but
make contest submissions, and other interactions with the FractInt
community easier. Can anybody supply me with the palette encoding
in the colors= statement or the format/meaning of stuff in the
.PAR file in general?

Maybe we chould form an ISO subcommittee, spend years, produce a
450 page document standardizing an ascii format to represent
parameters and formulas so all fractal programs can incorperate
it and can easily share work, making contests, sharing, etc. etc.
easier. We can charge hundreds of dollars for it and distribute
it only in a very poorly xerox-ed hard copy. (just kidding)

Thanks,

Jim
Jim

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Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 18:20:21 +0000
From: Andrej Lajovic <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) screen saver + raytracing

I would like to have a picture of color cycling plasma fractal as a
screen saver, but I have no ideas how to do it. Any
suggestions...? I don't even know if it is possible to do color
cycling from a batch file.

Another thing: Some time ago I asked you for the raw2pov converter.
Well, actually I still don't have it, but I compiled another one
that just converts the fractint's output format in *real* Pov-ray
3.02 format. It is aviable at
http://www2.arnes.si/~alajov/fractals/pov.html
(there is also link to home page of Pov-ray program, if you are going
to download it).

Have a good time!

Andrej

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Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 12:03:58 -0500
From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Contest(2 cents worth)

Jim,

 - For the present, Fractint is quite satisfactory to me....however, this
 - IS the Fractint listserver, and I feel the contest should be for
 - Fractint produced images.
 - ...
 - Or else maybe just move the whole contest to the Fractal Art list!

Done! :-)

Angela,

 - I think if your idea about bundling a fractint par file for those with
 - slow modems were implemented, much of the download problem would be
 - resolved.

I agree.

 - Maybe Damien would be kind enough to zip up the remaining gifs/jpgs as
 - well?

I think that would be a manageable feat.

 - Perhaps a file-size limit would be helpful.  How about 250K per image?

Considering all the images submitted will be 640x480, GIF or JPEG, I'm not
sure a file size limit is needed.  A 640x480 256-color image, prior to
compression, is 300K; and even the weakest JPEG compressor is normally able
to squeeze a 640x480 24-bit image (900K) down to less than 250K without
substantial loss.

 - ...some folks might need to convert from .bmp (which is HUGE) to jpg
 - to get to the right size.

BMPs are not web material anyway.  Since these images will, I suspect, be
viewed primarily through a web browser, that restricts the choices to GIF
and JPEG.  (Mac browsers don't view BMP, although PC browsers do.)

Pete,

 - If we decide to post the images for download, I suggest we use the PNG
 - format rather than the JPG format.

JPEG gets a bad rap because people use it improperly.  I especially see
people ragging on it with regard to fractals, because in this case it is
*very* easy to screw up.  So I'm going to clear a few things up here.
(Yes, you touched a nerve!)

(1) PNG is a great format.  It's the way GIF should have been designed in
the first place; it supports all the things that just plain make sense.  I
would like to see browsers support PNG natively (and that means WITHOUT a
plug-in).  Until they do, it is thoroughly unsuitable for use in a web
presentation.

(2) PNG's compression is better than GIF, true enough.  But it's not an
order of magnitude better; it's only slightly better.  When you save a
true-color image in a PNG file, you are storing three times as much data as
a 256-color GIF.  Saving a true-color image in PNG format is probably a bad
idea for web use, because the file size becomes huge.  As a test, I saved
two images in JPEG format, and two in PNG format.  (Both were 24-bit
images.)  The JPEGs were 130K and 241K.  The PNGs were 680K and 1340K.
Assuming you wanted to download both pictures, is the *slight* difference
between the two, barely distinguishable, worth waiting five times as long
for the download?

(3) JPEG is as lossy as you want it to be.  A lot of programs present you
with a slider when you save a JPEG, where you can set the quality, often as
a number from 0 to 100.  Well guess what, only one end of that scale is
useful.  If 0 is the best quality (worst compression), then anything higher
than 20 looks like garbage.  Usually 10-15 works better.  If you crank the
compression, you will get an image that looks like crap!  You don't have to
use maximum compression to get a reasonably small size.

(4) JPEG offers TWO kinds of loss.  One of them is to use lower resolution
for color data than for luminance data; this is "4:2:2" subsampling.  For
photographs, this is fine, but for fractals (which have sharper color
transitions) this does make muddy images.  Switch to "4:4:4" subsampling to
disable this feature.

(5) Do not under any circumstances save a 256-color image in JPEG format
unless you're trying to give JPEG a bad name.  If you take the raw GIF
output from something like FractInt and save it in a JPEG file, you WILL
get a lousy picture.  What you *should* be doing is rendering the image at
high resolution, then resizing down to produce a 24-bit, anti-aliased
image.  This anti-aliased image will compress very well, with less loss, as
a JPEG.  See http://www.fractalus.com/misc/antialias.htm for examples.

(6) Not all JPEG compressors are equal!  Some will produce an inferior
image no matter what settings you use.  If you can't seem to get your JPEG
save utility to do a decent job, get a better one!  Do some shopping (so to
speak) and compare.

If you want me to put up a web page explaining all of the above, I can do
this.  I've been using JPEG for a long time; if you think the images on my
web page look like garbage, please do let me know--but it's almost
certainly NOT due to their being JPEGs, because the originals look the same.

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  http://www.icd.com/tsd/ (temporary sanity designs)
                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/ (fractals are my hobby)

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Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 16:28:17 +0200
From: "Dean-Christian Strik" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) ICQ Number list - Rev.9

FRACTINT MAILING LIST ICQ NUMBER LIST REV.9

This list can be found online at http://come.to/fractinticq

A number of members have posted their ICQ numbers / nicknames on this list.
I've put them on this list for clarity reasons. If you're not a member of
ICQ yet, and are interested in becoming one, visit http://www.mirabilis.com,
where you can download the software. After having installed the software,
follow the instructions in the program to be assigned an ICQ number.

Felix aka Xilef has opened the ICQ Fractint Interest Group. This group can
be found at http://groups.icq.com/group.asp?no=28214

This list was last updated Tuesday July 14th, 16:21 GMT+1 (CET).
Many thanx go to Paul N. Lee for tracking a lot of names.

Abramovich, Egor     14441176   Egor                 [e-mail]
Allison, Linda       12189253   Gumbycat             [e-mail]
Baker, Art             265357   Art                  [e-mail]
Baker, Art            1531090   Ojai                 [e-mail]
Baker, Art            2751573                        [e-mail]
Baker, Art            2751922   Art                  [e-mail]
Baker, Art           10540501   Arturo               [e-mail]
Bell, Michael        11379737 * Mike                 [e-mail]
Best, Anthony         4259982   Nizzt                [e-mail]
Bornemeier, Phil      5550414   Phil                 [e-mail]
Burger, Jacco         5848993   Jacco                [e-mail]
Burnett, David        3283800   db                   [e-mail]
Burnett, David       11070869   db                   [e-mail]
Bushta, Greg           507219   Japan                [e-mail]
Calpini, Aldo         3093078   dada                 [e-mail]
Calpini, Francesco     187351   ManniX               [e-mail]
Camp, Jonathan        3475340 * descartes            [e-mail]
Castells, Jaime       1406374   Jaime                [e-mail]
Costa, Luis Ricardo   4111347 * Spielberg            [e-mail]
Courteau, ╔ric         279964   eric                 [e-mail]
Courteau, ╔ric        2594758   doudou               [e-mail]
Davidson, Neil        2924358                        [e-mail]
Derbyshire, Paul     10423848 * Kydaimon             [e-mail]
Drozdis, Marie       13510833   Marie
[e-mail]
Duhan, Andrew        10363110 M Felix                [e-mail]
Dukay, Alex           8515817                        [e-mail]
Ellis, David          5842959   Burmese              [e-mail]
Ellis, David         10983699   Burmese              [e-mail]
Evans, John          14618659   Violet               [e-mail]
Fetting, Jon          4024153   tfo                  [e-mail]
Finnis, Tony          3142165   fatman               [e-mail]
Forbus, David         2512475   forbus               [e-mail]
Gavin, Peter          7560538   Pete                 [e-mail]
Gibbs, Dorothy        1237263   Dorothy
[e-mail]
Grasso, Nick         12471014   Nick                 [e-mail]
Hailman, Robert       1668484   YorgOrgigus          [e-mail]
Hamilton, Robi        3786943                        [e-mail]
Hyde, Blake           5411598   Syrion               [e-mail]
Jones, Brian E.       2592938   Chaz Wazzer          [e-mail]
Jones, Ralph E.      11903613                        [e-mail]
Landrum, Chris       11989523   Raine                [e-mail]
Lauer, Brad           2740132   Clear Waters         [e-mail]
Lee, Paul N.          8804332 * Nahee
[e-mail]
Mackey, Chris         5517259   Maxx                 [e-mail]
Margolis, Bob        11924047                        [e-mail]
McTupper              4667192   &XPhiles
[e-mail]
McTupper              6228932   XylenCan
[e-mail]
Mercier, IrΘnΘe       7217822   Hibou                [e-mail]
Misterio', John C.A. 13157125 * John C.A. Misterio   [e-mail]
Mitchell, Cindy       2004028   cindy                [e-mail]
Moberg, Jonas         6024576   midas
[e-mail]
Moberg, Jonas         9808670   midas
[e-mail]
Neal, Tom             6090016   tom                  [e-mail]
Nguyen, Nhan           341018   Lavondyss            [e-mail]
Nikerel, Ilkem Emrah  5795106   Klark                [e-mail]
Parker, Thaddaeus     3304633 *                      [e-mail]
Perez, Ramiro         5281899   huor                 [e-mail]
Peteri, Gedeon        4831489                        [e-mail]
Piottukh, Vadim       1972851   Vadim                [e-mail]
Preslar, Janet       11747009   Jani                 [e-mail]
Scholl, Alan         12952218   swordas              [e-mail]
Schoonmaker, Andrew   2840835   Neon Elephant        [e-mail]
Schulze, Wilfried     3466538   doc                  [e-mail]
Simpson, Earl         2151865   GreyFox              [e-mail]
Stein, Jared          4665655   JSPent               [e-mail]
Stein, Jared         14590398   JSPent               [e-mail]
Strik, D. Christian  11760568 * Meltdown             [e-mail]
Wilczynski, Angela     503044   wizzle               [e-mail]
Wilczynski, Angela    1205072   wizzle               [e-mail]
Wilson, John         14386215 *                      [e-mail]

An asterisk (*) behind an ICQ # indicates that person is a member of the
ICQ Fractint Interest Group. M indicates Master.

This list may seem to have a bad lay-out if you're e-mail reader is using a
variable-width font (like Microsoft products do). For a good overview, you
might have to cut and paste into a text editor, or set the proportional (!)
font to a fixed font in your mail reader.

Any members on ICQ, who haven't mailed their #s yet, or haven't been listed
here (my fault then), please mail. You can also mail if you're a new member
of the ICQ Fractint Group (see above). This saves me some time finding out
names and numbers. :-)


If you notice an error on the list, don't hesitate to comment. This can be
done to the list, but I prefer corrections to be sent to
[e-mail]
Also, if you have a more than one ICQ number and don't use one of them, or
just want your name removed from the list - just send me a mail. Or if you
need a repost.

Thanx in advance,
Christian Strik










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End of fractint-digest V1 #258
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