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fractint-digest         Tuesday, May 19 1998         Volume 01 : Number 211




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 22:26:10 -0500 (CDT)
From: [e-mail] (Paul and/or Joyce Carlson)
Subject: Re: (fractint) Join us next time!

>I'm looking for fractal books right now.  Any suggestions?

What level of mathematics are you comfortable with?  Anyhow,
the book,

    Title:     Chaos and Fractals
    Authors:   Peitgen, Jurgens and Saupe
    Publisher: Springer-Verlag, 1992
    ISBN:      0-387-97903-4

is a very good book not requiring much beyond high school math.
It's a big book (almost 1,000 pages) that gives a lot of detailed
info about fractals.  I just saw a copy in Barnes & Noble tonight
so it's still in print.  I think I paid $40 for it a few years
ago.

During the fractal chat, Wizzle said Amazon Books is a good place
for computer books.

Paul Carlson


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 23:22:20 -0400
From: "Paul Derbyshire" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Calc method

>>Speaking of Microsoft's spell checker, try this out:  Go into Word, type
>>'zzzz' and spell-check it and see what's really on Bill Gates' mind.
>
>Seen that one...

Shit! Outlook exploder does it too! That's really weird... it almost has to be
intentional..... :-)

- --
   .*.  "Clouds are not spheres, mountains are not cones, coastlines are not
- -()  <  circles, and bark is not smooth, nor does lightning travel in a
   `*'  straight line."    -------------------------------------------------
        -- B. Mandelbrot  |http://www3.sympatico.ca/bob.beland/indexn2f.html
_____________________ ____|________     Paul Derbyshire     [e-mail]
Programmer & Humanist|ICQ: 10423848|






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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 20:38:27 -0700
From: Mark Christenson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Books

At 10:26 PM 5/18/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>I'm looking for fractal books right now.  Any suggestions?

I have my own short list, which includes Paul's recommendation.
It can be found at

www.hooked.net/~mchris/books.htm


Bud


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 20:40:20 -0700
From: Mark Christenson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Books

I wrote:
>At 10:26 PM 5/18/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>>I'm looking for fractal books right now.  Any suggestions?
>
>I have my own short list, which includes Paul's recommendation.

Oops, no it doesn't!


Bud


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Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 20:54:10 -0700
From: Mark Christenson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Books

At 10:26 PM 5/18/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>I'm looking for fractal books right now.  Any suggestions?

As to where, I can suggest a couple of places for deals.
Every now and then Tower Books has sales that can
save you as much as 35%.  Also, Academic Press
(which publishes Michael Barnsley's "Fractals Everywhere")
offers discounts of the same magnitude at trade shows
(I got one at VR '94).  Crown has decent prices, and there's
always Amazon.com (but the shipping can wipe out much
of your savings).


Bud


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 23:59:05 -0400
From: "Peter Gavin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractint) Calc method

//  >  civil rights are not special rights
// =20
//  What the heck does this mean exactly?

Umm...  you know what affirmative action is?



Pete
<[e-mail]>


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Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 21:06:50 -0700
From: kathy roth <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Books on Fractals

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Cliff wrote:

> I'm looking for fractal books right now.  Any suggestions?
>
I was thinking of making a list of the fractal books that people have
posted to this list, some of which I've read (partially).

Fractal Creations  by Tim Wegner and Bert Tyler, the
Waite group, 1993
                     a relatively short section on the basics of
fractals but actually
                     has the best description of all of them.  It makes
the difference
                     between the x-y orbit space and the c=pixel
Mandelbrot
                     clear.  ( Everyone else seems to assume you know
this.)
                     Mostly devoted to the feature of Fractint.  not
sure if it is out
                    of print.

A First Course in Chaotic Dynamical Systems, Robert L Devaney, Addison-
                    Wesley 1992             Paul Carlson recommended

Chaos and Fractals by Peitgen, Jurgens and Saupe,  Springer-Verlag 1992
                     It's BIG.  I like it. Pretty hard for the non-math
major but quite a
                     lot comprehensible if you have some college math.
great
                     section on Feigenbaum point.

The Science of Fractal Images,  Barnsley, Devaney, Mandelbrot, Peitgen,
                    Saupe, Voss       Springer-Verlag 1988

Fractals for the Classroom,  Peitgen et.al., Springer-Verlag 1992
                    a workbook

Fractals Everywhere, Michael Barnsley  Academic Press 1988

The Fractal Geometry of Nature, Benoit Mandelbrot,  out of print

other additions to list?

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<HTML>
Cliff wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<PRE>I'm looking for fractal books right now.  Any suggestions?</PRE>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
I was thinking of making a list of the fractal books that people have
<BR>posted to this list, some of which I've read (partially).

<P>Fractal Creations  by Tim Wegner and Bert Tyler, the
<BR>Waite group, 1993
<BR>
a relatively short section on the basics of fractals but actually
<BR>
has the best description of all of them.  It makes the difference
<BR>
between the x-y orbit space and the c=pixel Mandelbrot
<BR>
clear.  ( Everyone else seems to assume you know this.)
<BR>
Mostly devoted to the feature of Fractint.  not sure if it is out
<BR>
of print.

<P>A First Course in Chaotic Dynamical Systems, Robert L Devaney, Addison-
<BR>
Wesley 1992
Paul Carlson recommended

<P>Chaos and Fractals by Peitgen, Jurgens and Saupe,  Springer-Verlag
1992
<BR>
It's BIG.  I like it. Pretty hard for the non-math major but quite
a
<BR>
lot comprehensible if you have some college math.  great
<BR>
section on Feigenbaum point.

<P>The Science of Fractal Images,  Barnsley, Devaney, Mandelbrot,
Peitgen,
<BR>
Saupe, Voss       Springer-Verlag 1988

<P>Fractals for the Classroom,  Peitgen et.al., Springer-Verlag 1992
<BR>
a workbook

<P>Fractals Everywhere, Michael Barnsley  Academic Press 1988

<P>The Fractal Geometry of Nature, Benoit Mandelbrot,  out of print

<P>other additions to list?</HTML>

- --------------657246D1B4D7BD31B572C39E--


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 00:13:58 -0400
From: "Peter Gavin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractint) Calc method

//  >>Speaking of Microsoft's spell checker, try this out:  Go into=20
//  Word, type
//  >>'zzzz' and spell-check it and see what's really on Bill Gates' =
mind.
//  >
//  >Seen that one...
// =20
//  Shit! Outlook exploder does it too! That's really weird... it=20
//  almost has to be
//  intentional..... :-)

I don't think so...  They prob'ly have the same spell check =
algorithm/engine in all their products, and to make it *not* suggest =
'sex' would prob'ly involve a kludge of some kind (excuse the abbrvns =
<g> )  They wouldn't go out of their ways to do *that*, would they?  (I =
mean, sheesh, they didn't even convince the DOJ to... well, you know..)



Pete
<[e-mail]>


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 23:26:26 -0500
From: Bob Margolis <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) My fractal books collection

Some of the mathematics books in the library of Bob Margolis.
Many of them pertain to fractals.

Advanced Fractal Programming in C--Stephens
Archimedes' Revenge--Hoffman
Beauty of Fractals, The--Peitgen and Richter
Cellular Automata and Complexity--Wolfram
Chaos: A Program Collection for the PC--Korsch & Jodl
Chaos and Fractals: The Mathematics Behind...---Amer. Math. Soc.
Chaos and Fractals: New Frontiers of Science--Peitgen et al
Chaos Cookbook, The--Pritchard
Chaos, Fractals, and Dynamics: Computer Experiments...--Devaney
Chaos in Dynamical Systems--Ott
Chaos in Wonderland--Pickover
Chaos: Making a New Science--Gleick
Chaos: The New Science--Holte
Chaos Under Control--Peak & Frame
Chaotic and Fractal Dynamics--Moon
Chaotic Dynamics--Baker & Gollub
Computers and the Imagination--Pickover
Computers, Pattern, Chaos, and Beauty--Pickover
Differential Equations with Applications--Betz, Burcham & Ewing
Does God Play Dice? The Mathematics of Chaos--Stewart
Dynamical Systems and Fractals--Becker & Dorfler
Elementary Number Theory--Uspensky & Heaslet
Encounters with Chaos--Gulick
Essence of Chaos, The--Lorenz
Excursions in Number Theory--Ogilvy & Anderson
Exploring Chaos--Hall
Exploring the Geometry of Nature--Rietman
Eye for Fractals, An--McGuire
Fantasia Mathematica--Fadiman
Fourth Dimension, The--Rucker
Fractal Cosmos: The Art of Mathematical Design--Berkowitz
Fractal Creations (1st ed.)--Wegner & Peterson
Fractal Creations (2nd ed.)--Wegner & Tyler
Fractal Geometry: Math Foundations & Applications--Falconer
Fractal Geometry and Computer Graphics--Encarnacao, Peitgen et al
Fractal Geometry of Nature, The--Mandelbrot
Fractal Graphics for Windows--Oliver & Hoviss
Fractal Mania--LaPlante
Fractal Programming in C--Stevens
Fractal Programming and Ray Tracing with C++--Stevens
Fractal Vision: Put Fractals to Work for You--Oliver
Fractals: A User's Guide ... Natural Sciences--Hastings/Sugihara
Fractals and Chaos--Crilly, Earnshaw & Jones
Fractals, Chaos, Power Laws--Schroeder
Fractals: Endlessly Repeated Geometrical Figures--Lauwerier
Fractals Everywhere (1st ed.)--Barnsley
Fractals Everywhere (2nd ed.)--Barnsley
Fractals for the Classroom, Part One: Intro...--Maletsky et al
Fractals for the Classroom, Part Two: Complex Systems--Maletsky..
Fractals: Images of Chaos--Lauwerier
Fractals: The Patterns of Chaos--Briggs
From Five Fingers to Infinity--Swetz
From One to Zero--Ifrah
From Zero to Infinity--Reid
Game, Set and Math--Stewart
Godel, Escher, Bach--Hofstadter
Infinity and the Mind--Rucker
Journey Through Genius--Dunham
Joy of Mathematics, The--Pappas
Loom of God, The--Pickover
Magic House of Numbers--Adler
Martin Gardner's New Mathematical Diversions from Scientific American
Mathematical Magic Show--Gardner
Mathematical Tourist, The--Peterson
Mathematician's Delight--Sawyer
Mathematics Dictionary--James
Mathematics: From the Birth of Numbers--Gullberg
Mathematics in Civilization--Resnikoff & Wells
Mathematics in the Making--Hogben
Mathematics: Queen and Servant of Science--Bell
Mazes for the Mind: Computers and the Unexpected--Pickover
Men of Mathematics--Bell
More Joy of Mathematics--Pappas
New Scientist Guide to Chaos, The--Hall
Of Men & Numbers--Muir
Ordinary Differential Equations--Ince
Pattern Book, The: Fractals, Art, and Nature--Pickover
Real-World Fractals--Finlay & Blanton
Recreations in the Theory of Numbers--Beiler
Science of Fractal Images, The--Peitgen & Saupe
Source Book in Mathematics, A (2 vols.)--Smith
Strange Attractors: Creating Patterns in Chaos--Sprott
Theory of Numbers--Stewart
Turbulent Mirror--Briggs & Peat
Turing Omnibus, The--Dewdney
Understanding the New Mathematics--Rosenthal
What is Mathematics?--Courant & Robbins
World of Mathematics, The (4 vols.)--Newman
You Are a Mathematician--Wells
Your Chance to Win--Levinson


Now for a word from our sponsor:

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 01:01:50 -0400
From: "Paul Derbyshire" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Calc method

//  Shit! Outlook exploder does it too! That's really weird... it
//  almost has to be
//  intentional..... :-)

I don't think so...  They prob'ly have the same spell check algorithm/engine in
all their products, and to make it *not* suggest 'sex' would prob'ly involve a
kludge of some kind (excuse the abbrvns <g> )  They wouldn't go out of their
ways to do *that*, would they?  (I mean, sheesh, they didn't even convince the
DOJ to... well, you know..)

No, not that it recurs in other products, the spell check stuff is probably in
a DLL like the infamous file dialog. I meant that what it suggests is
apparently unrelated in this case to what's input...

And what didn't they convince the DOJ to do?

- --
   .*.  "Clouds are not spheres, mountains are not cones, coastlines are not
- -()  <  circles, and bark is not smooth, nor does lightning travel in a
   `*'  straight line."    -------------------------------------------------
        -- B. Mandelbrot  |http://www3.sympatico.ca/bob.beland/indexn2f.html
_____________________ ____|________     Paul Derbyshire     [e-mail]
Programmer & Humanist|ICQ: 10423848|



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 02:31:52 EDT
From: MAksoy <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Split the list!

In a message dated 98-05-17 13:40:58 EDT, you write:

<< I'd entertain suggestions for splitting this forum to make it work better
for
 members.  Should we consider a PAR and FRM only list, and another for
 questions and discussion? The truck is splitting the forum in such a way that
 one doesn't have all the traffic.

 Tim >>

I think splitting the list between PAR/FRM's and questions/discussion is an
idea whose time has come. With some 30 messages per day and often over 300
PARs per month, searching for and extracting PARs from fractint email is
becoming arduous.  Often, they are buried in threaded messages under
nondescript subject titles ("Re: something or other").  With PARs on a
separate list, they could be explicitly identified by subject title and would
be more efficiently located in the daily rush of incoming email.

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 02:44:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Muth <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Perturbing Julias

At 08:33 PM 5/18/98 -0400, cjc26 wrote:


>Speaking of the julibrot, can anyone tell me what a THREE-
>dimensional slice of it would look like?  In particular, the
>three-dimensional slice(s) which have the Mandelbrot set on
>the x-y plane?  Thanks...


It's kind of hard to describe, but the attached formula will
draw horizontal two-dimensional slices through the center of
all the possible orientations that project the Mandelbrot XY
image on the screen.

To visualize the 3D object, run the formula with all para-
meters set to zero and symmetry set to none.  A small out-zoom
will be necessary to fit the entire image on the screen.  Now
imagine standing at the left side of your screen, looking down
on the object, which has miraculously filled out into three
dimensions, and extends behind and in front of the screen.  The
Y-axis is real(c), the X-axis varies from real(z), (when p1 is
set to 0,0), to imag(z), (when p1 is set to 0,90).  Of course,
since we are limited to two dimensions, we can see only the
center slice of this 3D object.

By changing imag(p1) from 0 to 90, we have rotated the Julibrot
90 degrees around the plane of the classic Mandelbrot set.  (In
four dimensions, the axis of rotation is a plane.)

By varying imag(p1) from 0 to 360, an entire 360-degree
rotation can be visualized.  This also makes an interesting
animation loop.


Jim Muth
[e-mail]


START FORMULA=================================================

multirot-XZ-YW {; Jim Muth
; 0,0=para, 90,0=obl, 0,90=elip, 90,90=rect
e=exp(flip(real(p1*.01745329251994))),
f=exp(flip(imag(p1*.01745329251994))),
z=f*real(pixel)+p2, c=e*imag(pixel)+p3:
z=sqr(z)+c,
|z| <= 36  }

END FORMULA===================================================



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 01:53:20 -0600
From: Ray Montgomery <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) FOTN not allowed?

        Last night went walking the byways for Jay Hill's FOTN.  Made two
attempts to get in to see his offering - but was informed by a rude Netscape
doorman that they could not find him on that (or this) server.
        Have I lived my life improperly to be so denied?  Perhaps I copied
the address wrong - but whatever - I didn't get to see Jay's FOTN - darn!
        After wandering around for a while, I did spot the door to Jim
Muth's FOTD and admired that for a while.
        Thanks for the treat Jim and, Jay - I'm sure it would have been a
treat had I been allowed in by that rude guard.  Next time.
                                        Ray



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 03:19:40 -0500
From: "Paul N. Lee" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) FOTN not allowed?

Ray Montgomery wrote:
>
> Last night went walking the byways for Jay Hill's FOTN.
> Made two attempts to get in to see his offering - but
> was informed by a rude Netscape doorman that they could
> not find him on that (or this) server.
>

This may be due to the fact that a lot of ISPs and servers are
maintenanced on weekend nights.  I know that AT&T's Worldnet has a
webpage that states the days and times for these events, which sometimes
conflicts with my uploading Jim's current FOTD to my website.

You might have Jay check with the "San Diego Road Runner" ISP to see
when their times are, or you might check with your own service provider.

P.N.L.

- -------------------------------------------------
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       Because we're almost always right.
- -------------------------------------------------
http://www.fractalus.com/cgi-bin/theway?ring=fractals&id=43&go

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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 09:59:29 -0400
From: "Paul Derbyshire" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Fractint 19.6 hangs on 0-length parfiles

Seems there's a quite serious, overlooked bug in Fractint v19.6 accessing a
0-length PAR file. A 0-length par file shows up in the list of PARs from
hitting @, but if you select it, it won't say "No entries available" or
anything such, instead the par-selection screen will shift up a line and
Fractint will silently hang. Further keypresses are eaten (the keyboard buffer
doesn't fill up and start beeping) and each one makes the screen scroll a line,
but it seems to be stuck in an infinite loop. Occasionally it will, after
minutes of sitting at the hung screen, spontaneously burp and print a red box
claiming the file doesn't exist, then resume normal activity, but usually the
only recourse is the Vulcan nerve pinch.

Needless to say this is a quite serious problem. It would be greatly
appreciated if future versions of Fractint handled this exceptional condition
more gracefully. It would also be a good idea to check the frm, map, gif,
L-file, IFS-file, and pot code to ensure they don't replicate the same bug. For
that matter, a 0-length fractint.cfg could cause Fractint to hang on startup if
the bug occurs there also, and this would be especially pernicious.

Please note: so far this problem has been observed only on the alpha version
with the new GIF encoder. However since I assume this doesn't have changes to
PAR code, I would expect vanilla 19.6 to exhibit the hang also.

For those curious as to how I discovered this bug, in light of the fact that a
0-length parfile is by definition rather useless, I had a quick hack written to
manufacture PARswith randomized parameters within certain constraints, and it
was emitting 0-length files for some obscure reason. (Open files weren't being
properly closed on exit by the runtime, for some silly reason, and this forced
the addition of explicit closes and flushes...)

- --
   .*.  "Clouds are not spheres, mountains are not cones, coastlines are not
- -()  <  circles, and bark is not smooth, nor does lightning travel in a
   `*'  straight line."    -------------------------------------------------
        -- B. Mandelbrot  |http://www3.sympatico.ca/bob.beland/indexn2f.html
_____________________ ____|________     Paul Derbyshire     [e-mail]
Programmer & Humanist|ICQ: 10423848|



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 10:13:20 -0400
From: "RJ Corradino" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractint) Fractal Chat

> Personally I would love to do fractal chat during the day, PDT or
> EDT, but I am
> cursed with this impediment called "work"....(a four letter word, you will
> note.) I feel fairly sure many of you are similarly afflicted.  Several
> questions and suggestions:

Ah yes...I tend to forget that most other people have lives.  My fault :)

If afternoons suck for a lot of you, weekday evenings are fine for me as
well.  And weekends are fine for me starting in the end of june.

> 1.  For those of you who can get together during the day, by all means do
> so......I can't see why I should be the Sophie Tucker of fractint.
[snip]
> What do you sleepyheads say to chatting Saturday morning at 7AM???

Ummm...[sound of shuffling as I get my time zone slide rule out]...that
would be 10AM for me.  Perfect.  I'll be there.

Now, out of curiosity, is anyone going to register #fractals?  This way the
channel would be (to some degree) open 24/7 for anyone to stop in.  This
would definately introduce a lot of new people to fractint, so thats another
benefit(or drawback, depending on your outlook on life :)).

The one difficulty is, some of us would need to be channel
operators(affectionately known as Ops).  Basically, all Ops need to do is:
Keep the conversation alive
Help answer newbie questions(either about IRC or Fractals)
Kick out anyone who becomes a major problem

None of this is difficult.  The hard part is that ops should really be in
the chan as much as possible.  The best channels have a few ops who are
*always* around, and I don't know who has time for that.  Even that isn't as
hard as it sounds though...I know some people get so addicted to IRC that
they stay logged in whenever they do anything online, checking the IRC
window for action every few minutes.

I'm perfectly willing to help out, at least during the summer. When school
reopens, I'll once again become lost in the RealLifeZone(tm).  My only
concern is, while I'm a veteran to IRC, I'm definately a Fractint newbie.  I
doubt I'd be much help in that department...

- -RJ


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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 09:08:33 -0600
From: Ray Montgomery <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Re: No Fotn

        Hi Paul

        Thanks for the response.  I'd better choose a different time for my
meanderings.

                                        Ray


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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 11:06:55 -0400
From: "RJ Corradino" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Fractal books

I'm also interested in grabbing some good books on Fractals.  I'd prefer one
that's rather light on the math, and concentrates on the artistic side of
fractaling.  Also, the one by Barnsley sounds like a good one.  From the
title, I'm guessing it discusses the fractals we see in every day life(maybe
clouds and so forth).  Is this the case?  Is there a lot of heavy math in
this one?

As far as the out of print books, I'm not sure if you all know about this or
not, but amazon.com will track down used copies if you order through them.

- -RJ


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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 11:17:00 -0400
From: "RJ Corradino" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractint) Split the list!

I would also like to see a split.  I prefer to have the discussion in
regular email form, but pars would be much more managable in a digest form.
Or, if a digest can't be done, it would still be much easier to set up a
mail filter for pars if they came from a different list.

The only drawback I see, is that the discussion is often intertwined with
the pars.  I'd hate to lose that.  I'm sure we'll find some way to make
everyone happy.

Another thing that would make things MUCH easier- Yesterday Peter Gavin
posted some pars(which I haven't seen yet...still haven't begun to wade
through anything from the weekend).  He sent them both as attachments and
pasted into the message.  If this became standard practice, I for one would
be very grateful.

- -RJ


> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of MAksoy
> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 1998 2:32 AM
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: (fractint) Split the list!
>
>
> In a message dated 98-05-17 13:40:58 EDT, you write:
>
> << I'd entertain suggestions for splitting this forum to make it
> work better
> for
>  members.  Should we consider a PAR and FRM only list, and another for
>  questions and discussion? The truck is splitting the forum in
> such a way that
>  one doesn't have all the traffic.
>
>  Tim >>
>
> I think splitting the list between PAR/FRM's and
> questions/discussion is an
> idea whose time has come. With some 30 messages per day and often over 300
> PARs per month, searching for and extracting PARs from fractint email is
> becoming arduous.  Often, they are buried in threaded messages under
> nondescript subject titles ("Re: something or other").  With PARs on a
> separate list, they could be explicitly identified by subject
> title and would
> be more efficiently located in the daily rush of incoming email.
>


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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 11:39:21 -0400
From: "Marie Drozdis" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractint) Split the list!

I'd rather see the list as it is now.  The mix is just right for me, and if
I want the pars all set up in one nice package, Les St.Clair makes this
downright enjoyable to access monthly on his own website.

Not all of us are set up to receive attachments, but if I could download
them from Les's page, that might overcome that problem.  I'm writing this
too hastily, so forgive any errors in syntax, spelling, or presentation.
Marie :)

- -----Original Message-----
From:    [e-mail]
[mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of RJ Corradino
Sent:    Tuesday, May 19, 1998 11:17 AM
To:    [e-mail]
Subject:    RE: (fractint) Split the list!

I would also like to see a split.  I prefer to have the discussion in
regular email form, but pars would be much more managable in a digest form.
Or, if a digest can't be done, it would still be much easier to set up a
mail filter for pars if they came from a different list.

The only drawback I see, is that the discussion is often intertwined with
the pars.  I'd hate to lose that.  I'm sure we'll find some way to make
everyone happy.

Another thing that would make things MUCH easier- Yesterday Peter Gavin
posted some pars(which I haven't seen yet...still haven't begun to wade
through anything from the weekend).  He sent them both as attachments and
pasted into the message.  If this became standard practice, I for one would
be very grateful.




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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 12:08:52 EDT
From: SKarl52884 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint)hangs on 0-length parfiles-not!

In a message dated 98-05-19 10:10:47 EDT, you write:

<< only recourse is the Vulcan nerve pinch. >>
Rofl....cute line....but....it seems not all machines react the same to the
same specific stimuli.   T.I. Pent.100    says   "no valid entries faster t

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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 12:14:21 EDT
From: SKarl52884 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractint 19.6 hangs on 0-length parfiles

In a message dated 98-05-19 10:10:47 EDT, you write:

<< only recourse is the Vulcan nerve pinch. >>
OOPS...wrong button...I hate when that happens.... anyways ...my machine
responds with the 'no
valid entries' red box faster than data could respond with a verbal calulation
of the response time....   its relatively instantaneous....
Hitting escape 2 times gets me out of there and there is no problem.
I've seen my friends Compac sit and wonder what to do about situations that
are immediately resolved by my machine or an other friends machine.
It might be good to have a few others check and see what happens in this
situation.
~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^
Steve

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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 12:15:51 EDT
From: SKarl52884 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Split the list!

Sounds good!
Easy to do???

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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 12:24:53 EDT
From: SKarl52884 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint)no hang on 0-length frm and map

I checked the a blank frm....quick response...no valid entries
                                map....   hummm  ....it just loads a flat grey
screen...

Just to let you know.
Steve

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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 09:51:13 -0700
From: Mark Christenson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractal books

At 11:06 AM 5/19/98 -0400, RJ wrote:
>I'm also interested in grabbing some good books on Fractals.  I'd prefer one
>that's rather light on the math, and concentrates on the artistic side of
>fractaling.  Also, the one by Barnsley sounds like a good one.  From the
>title, I'm guessing it discusses the fractals we see in every day life(maybe
>clouds and so forth).  Is this the case?  Is there a lot of heavy math in
>this one?

Well, unfortunately the answers are yes (real-life fractals
and yes (heavy math).  It is fairly rigorous - it's a college
mathematics text.  But there is a lot of good data on
diverse fractal types, and some really cool images
(but that's par for the course for fractal books).  It is
also my most frequently used fractal text (yes, I
actually *own* this one!)  What's special about this
book is its thorough coverage of the Collage Theorem
(which Barnsley discovered), it applications, and related
mathematics.

For the "fractals in everyday life" theme, unless something
better has been done since (and please correct me if I'm
wrong - my research is limited to what my local libraries
have), the best is still Benoit Mandelbrot's "The Fractal
Geometry of Nature" (W. H. Freeman & Co., New York, 1982).
(Of course, it *also* has a lot of math - Mandelbrot was trying
to model the stock market's behavior when he discovered
fractal mathematics).  You can probably find it at any
(civilized) public library, along with most of the classic books
listed here recently.  Surprisingly, here in Silicon Valley
(using Mountain View and Sunnyvale as my gauge), we are
seriously underinvested in books.  I have seen nothing more
recent than 1991 on fractals.  On the other hand, software
texts are more up to date (up to 1996).

Actually, now that I think of it, didn't Mandelbrot do a
"mostly pictures" book with nature photos exhibiting
fractal characteristics?  Can someone help us out here?


Bud


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End of fractint-digest V1 #211
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