ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/fractint/archive/v01.n038

Internet Message Format | 1997-10-23 | 43KB

From: [e-mail] (fractint Digest)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: fractint Digest V1 #38
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Sender: [e-mail]
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Precedence:


fractint Digest        Friday, October 24 1997        Volume 01 : Number 038



In this issue:

    Re: (fractint) Fractint v19.6 Windows 95
    (fractint) Tim's random formula
    (fractint) genetic algorithm for fractal formulas
    Re: (fractint) slit island technique
    Re: (fractint) How does boundary scanning work?
    Re: (fractint) Fractal Books
    Re: (fractint) JPEG suitability for fractals
    (fractint) printing fractint
    (fractint) nova pars
    Re: (fractint) printing fractint
    RE: (fractint) JPEG suitability for fractals
    (fractint) problem with par files
    Re: (fractint) Fractint v19.6 Windows 95
    Re: (fractint) problem with par files
    (fractint) Word wrap and attachments
    Re: (fractint) Word wrap and attachments
    (fractint) Matrox Millenium Cards
    Re: (fractint) Word wrap and attachments
    Re: (fractint) JPEG suitability for fractals
    Re: (fractint) Matrox Millenium Cards
    Re: (fractint) JPEG suitability for fractals
    Re: (fractint) JPEG suitability for fractals
    (fractint) nova-type formulas
    Re: (fractint) JPEG suitability for fractals
    Re: (fractint) JPEG suitability for fractals
    Re: (fractint) JPEG suitability for fractals
    (fractint) Potential Max Color Problem
    Re: (fractint) JPEG suitability for fractals

See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the fractint
or fractint-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 07:52:55 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Merle L Newsted Jr)
Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractint v19.6 Windows 95

Try creating a "shortcut" on your desktop, and be sure to set the screen
to "Full Screen" (right click the shortcut icon and look in properties,
click "screen" tab)

I had the same problem too, but now it works for all aplicable settings.
later,
nuke

On Tue, 21 Oct 1997 20:39:48 +0200 "R. J. Jonker" <[e-mail]>
writes:
>Whenever I try to run Fractint under windows 95(B), (in a maxized
>window of
>course) and use a Vesa screen mode (e.g. 800X600; 256 colors) it seems
>to
>complete the image and then braeks off. The ever lovely(?) windows
>tells
>me: This program cannot be restarted (excuses for the probably akward
>translation of a Dutch message) In other words under windows i can use
>fractin only withe the normal VGA standards.
>When i make a special DOS-session, I hav no problems.
>My question: Is this normal behavior of fractint or should I somewhere
>in
>Windows change some setting?
>Hoping for an answer
>Roelof Jonker
>
>---
>The right of free speech implicates the duty to think
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
>Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
>Post Message:   [e-mail]
>Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
>Administrator:  [e-mail]
>Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"
>

- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 10:24:02 -0700 (MST)
From: Kerry Mitchell <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Tim's random formula

Tim Wegner posted a "random" formula, and challenged us to come us with
interesting par files for it.  Here's mine.  (It's best done at high res
and anti-aliased down for viewing)

blue_tim           {
  reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=fractint.frm formulaname=tim's_fract
  center-mag=-1.25263715900483200/+1.44808875819554800/4810.826
  float=y maxiter=256 inside=0 decomp=256 periodicity=0 passes=1
  colors=001001<10>6BL6CM7DO8EP9FR<5>CL_CM`DNaEObEPc<8>KYmLZnM_n<6>RftSgtT\
  huUiuVjv<5>apybqycrydsyftyhuzivzkwznxzpyztzz<2>lwzjvziuz<2>drybqyapx`ox<\
  3>XkwVjvViv<3>RetQdsPcrObqOap<12>EQdEPcDOa<2>BLZBKXAJWAIU9HT9GR8FQ<11>13\
  6124012000012124<9>6CM7DN7EP8FQ8GS<4>BLZCM_DN`DOaEPc<15>PcrQdsResSftTgtU\
  hu<3>XlwYmw_nx<2>bqydryesygtyhuz<3>ryzzzztzzpyznxzkwz<2>ftydsycrybqy<10>\
  RftQesQdr<6>KYmKXlJWkIVjHUiHTh<6>DM_CLZBKYAJXAIV<8>59I48G47E36C35A<3>113
  cyclerange=0/255
  }

frm:Tim's_fract { ; Example of a more or less random formula
  z = Pixel:
   ; I have no clue what the point of this formula is
   ; it came straight from my subconscious <g!>
  z = (sinh(z*z + log(z)))/(z*z + 2)
  |z| <= 16
  }

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kerry Mitchell
[e-mail]
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------


- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 11:37:59 -0600
From: Rich Thomson <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) genetic algorithm for fractal formulas

Since fractint allows you to write arbitrary formulas for fractals,
has anyone considered writing a program that uses genetic algorithm
techniques to "invent" formulas for fractint?  I don't imagine the
process would be very interactive, more like you'd probably setup
things to go at night and then give it some user feedback in the
morning <g>.  Just wondered if anyone else has thought of doing this.
I can think of ways to do it with a perl script, but I am too occupied
with other projects to explore it at the moment...
- --
  ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.''  -- Steven Covey
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
     3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D;        Rich Thomson
     email me for more info                [e-mail]

- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 14:42:39 -0400
From: Thierry Boudet <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) slit island technique

> The title of my project is The Fracture Analysis
> of  Stainless Steel Using Fractal Analysis.
> So far, I have had great difficulty trying to find any information
> on  this subject
> Therefore any possible help on the subject would be greatly recieved.

        There was a very good french book called
        "Precis d'analyse d'image" by Michel COSTER and
        Jean-Louis CHERMANT, edited in 1985 by the CNRS
        (french National Center for Scientific Research)

        This book was very oriented on mathematic morphologie,
        granulometrie, cristallographie but, ... I don't know
        if the fractal aspects of your probleme is here.

        May be you can go to http://www.cnrs.fr/ and search
        or ask about this book.


        Thierry.    (Toulouse, France)


- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 13:27:41 -0600
From: Rich Thomson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) How does boundary scanning work?

In article <[e-mail]> ,
    [e-mail]  writes:
> Hi, I'm new to this list. Sorry to bother you with this question, but how
> does the boundary scanning method work? I would appreciate a clear
> explanation and some simple source code for drawing the M-set by this method.

I think there's an explanation of the algorithm in "Science of Fractal
Images" by Peitgen.  You should be able to find this book in a local
library.
- --
  ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.''  -- Steven Covey
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
     3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D;        Rich Thomson
     email me for more info                [e-mail]

- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 13:29:26 -0600
From: Rich Thomson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractal Books

Peitgen has written three books, each successive book being easier to
understand by a non-mathematician:

    Beauty of Fractals (you may have seen "BOF.PAR" in the fractint
    distribution; BOF = Beauty of Fractals)

    Science of Fractal Images

    Chaos and Fractals

Each book was larger than its predecessor as well :)
- --
  ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.''  -- Steven Covey
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
     3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D;        Rich Thomson
     email me for more info                [e-mail]

- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 11:01:22 -0600
From: Rich Thomson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) JPEG suitability for fractals

In article <[e-mail]> ,
    "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>  writes:
> programs out there that can read PNG and write JPEG, for those that want to
> do the conversion.  (This will have the side-effect of removing any PAR
> information from the file, which is a good or bad thing, depending on your
> point of view. :)

I'd like the PAR file information to be saved as a text string to the
image instead of an application-specific binary block.  Many programs
can extract the text string information from an image file; only
fractint can extract the PAR file information when it is stored as
binary data.  Both PNG, JPEG and GIF all support adding text string
comments to an image file.  (Usually intended for copyright notices.)
- --
  ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.''  -- Steven Covey
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
     3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D;        Rich Thomson
     email me for more info                [e-mail]

- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 09:57:32 -0700
From: kathy roth <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) printing fractint

A couple of weeks ago I asked about printing fracint and received a couple of replies
suggesting graphics programs to buy.  Since then my hard drive broke and I lost the
replies.  I wonder if the people who replied could repeat their suggestions.
    I have been following this discussion with some interest.  I think it would be
too bad to eliminate the built-in formulae because it enables computer neophytes to do
some really interesting things.  I was inspired to do some reading about fractals and
chaos and to go review some college math.  Do you have suggestions about where to find
basic information on using a formula or giving a command string etc.  I have been
reading the spanky pages.  Thanks.

- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 13:15:55 -0400
From: Gedeon Peteri <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) nova pars

    I cannot get Paul Derbyshire's page either.  The message I get says
that my server is not permitted to open this page.  Is this part of the
problems Paul wrote about, or have I got some additional ones?
    I just saw the Nova formulas for the first time yesterday when
posted.  Great formulas!!!  Despite recommendation for float=yes I tried
float=no too, with continuous potential on.  Here are 3 examples.
    Gedeon

gfpnova4-01        {;   0:00:36.96
  reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=nova.frm formulaname=Nova4
  center-mag=3.749e-005/-1.27e-005/0.3729869 params=0/0/1e-007/0
  potential=255/255/0

colors=00040z00zM5f<21>eTufUveTv<22>M5fLFM<13>f`hhbjgah<14>LFM30g<22>b`z\


<23>30gW0z<14>00W<15>W0zLFM<13>f`hhbjgah<14>LFMKJQ<12>dcieejddi<14>KJQ00\

  z<14>z0z<13>80z
  }

gfpnova4-02        {;   0:01:12.56
  reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=nova.frm formulaname=Nova4
  passes=1 center-mag=-0.419969/8.97945e-005/5.045281/0.8278/-90
  params=3/0/1e-007/0 maxiter=1023 potential=255/255/0

colors=000f_W<6>mfangbnfa<38>C85K0D000<14>000100301<28>t0Kv0Lv0L<45>K0DD\

  EI<37>fglghmfgl<38>DEIC85<28>eZV
  }

gfpnovena-01       {;   0:01:58.69
  reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=nova.frm formulaname=Novena
  passes=t center-mag=0.138403/1.49609/6.666813 params=0.51/0/1e-007/0
  maxiter=1023 fillcolor=222 potential=255/255/0

colors=000MMJ<9>776W00<14>z00<15>W00688<22>chh<23>68800z<6>0zz<7>00zDBE<\

  21>daeebfdae<22>DBEWG0<6>zW0<7>WG08CE<22>bir<23>8CE776<21>ffa<12>OOL
  }



- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 13:30:23 -0300 (ADT)
From: mctaylor <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) printing fractint

On Fri, 24 Oct 1997, kathy roth wrote:

> chaos and to go review some college math.  Do you have suggestions about where to find
> basic information on using a formula or giving a command string etc.  I have been
> reading the spanky pages.  Thanks.

First off, please use word wrap, it eliminates a lot of headaches for
those of us using text-oriented mail clients.

For what book, I suggest browsing the sci.fractals FAQ, under "I want to
learn more about fractals..."
  http://www.mta.ca/~mctaylor/sci.fractals-faq/learn.html

The way to start with writing your own formulas, is "playing," which is an
advanced scienitific technique used by the best fractogists. :)

1) Just start playing.
2) Don't use your computer for anything else,
     that would slow down your explorations.
3) Just keep playing.

- --
Michael C. Taylor <[e-mail]> <http://www.mta.ca/~mctaylor/>
 Programmer, Computing Services, Mount Allison University, Canada
 sci.fractals FAQ <http://www.mta.ca/~mctaylor/sci.fractals-faq/>
    fractal and cryptography archive <http://fractal.mta.ca/>


- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 10:24:13 PST
From: NOEL_GIFFIN <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractint) JPEG suitability for fractals

Why would anyone ever want to use jpeg to store fractal images if PNG
format is available. For me the most interesting thing about fractals
is the very fine detail that can be produced. If you store the image
as a Jpeg at standard compression (70-80%) then much of this detail
is masked or fudged by the artifacts induced by the jpeg format. Lossless
Jpeg is relatively unavailable and is no better at compressing then
anything else. A lot of work went into creating the PNG graphic standard
to ensure that it met the needs for a wide variety of image types and
that it remained royalty free. Why not use it?

    Noel Giffin

- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 13:49:49 -0400
From: Gedeon Peteri <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) problem with par files

I noticed that I get par files posted by others as well as my own with
some lines, particularly the color lines, double spaced.  My own par
files I posted just a short time ago looked fine here when I sent them,
but when the list returned them to me, some of the lines were double
spaced. Fractint will not recognize the colors if copied in this way.  I
had to go and delete the empty lines, then everything worked just fine.
Surely this is no big deal, but I am wondering if there is a way around
this, or whether others are experiencing similar problems too.  Would it
not be better, for example, to post parameter files as an attachment?
Generally speaking, what is the form of posting preferred by the list?
Gedeon


- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 19:59:05 +2
From: "J.P. Louvet" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractint v19.6 Windows 95

le 21 Oct 97 a 20:39, R. J. Jonker ecrivait (R. J. Jonker wrote) :

> Whenever I try to run Fractint under windows 95(B), (in a maxized window
> of course) and use a Vesa screen mode (e.g. 800X600; 256 colors) it seems
> to complete the image and then braeks off. The ever lovely(?) windows
> tells me: This program cannot be restarted (excuses for the probably
> akward translation of a Dutch message) In other words under windows i can
> use fractin only withe the normal VGA standards. When i make a special
> DOS-session, I hav no problems. My question: Is this normal behavior of
> fractint or should I somewhere in Windows change some setting? Hoping for
> an answer Roelof Jonker
>
I think that it is a problem with the graphic card : I have had no problem
with Cirrus Logic cards, but some S3 cards (S3 Trio if I remember) can
only be used with Fractint in a true Dos session, and not in a Dos session
under Windows 95 (whatever settings you choose the this session). I have
changed my card... some (many ?) cards are only partially VESA compatible.


- ---------------------------------------------------------------
J.P. Louvet                | Phone :  [phone]
IUT Universite Bordeaux I  | Fax :    [phone]
33405 Talence CEDEX France | e-mail : [e-mail]
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
Fractales sur serveur Web Universite Bordeaux I :
http://graffiti.cribx1.u-bordeaux.fr/MAPBX/louvet/jpl0.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------

- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 11:55:32 -0600
From: Rich Thomson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) problem with par files

In article <[e-mail]> ,
    Gedeon Peteri <[e-mail]>  writes:
> Generally speaking, what is the form of posting preferred by the list?

I'll let Tim set the tone for the list as a whole, but I suggested
posting PAR files as attachments on fractal-art and the subscribers
there shot it down.  Apparently people prefer the tedious hand-editing
you've described.
- --
  ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.''  -- Steven Covey
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
     3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D;        Rich Thomson
     email me for more info                [e-mail]

- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 11:16:52 -0700
From: "Jay Hill"<[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Word wrap and attachments

Gedeon wrote
>I noticed that I get par files posted by others as well as my own
with some lines, particularly the color lines, double spaced.

I bet that is the word wrap function, Michael Taylor wrote that he
liked word wrap on so his end is easier. I suspect word wrap is
what messes up par and formula posts.

> Would it not be better, for example, to post parameter files
as an attachment? Generally speaking, what is the form of
posting preferred by the list?

I prefer inline posting, not attachments.  Attachments often loose
their authorship and origin info, then we have trouble attributing
derived work.  No matter how you do it, there is some editing
involved in storing this list info and keeping it in a recoverable
form.

Another $.03 worth,

Jay



- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 12:21:11 -0600
From: Rich Thomson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Word wrap and attachments

In article <[e-mail]> ,
    "Jay Hill"<[e-mail]>  writes:
> I prefer inline posting, not attachments.  Attachments often loose
> their authorship and origin info, then we have trouble attributing
> derived work.  No matter how you do it, there is some editing
> involved in storing this list info and keeping it in a recoverable
> form.

The obvious thing is to include comments in your par/frm/etc. files if
you want attribution.  If done properly, attachments require NO
editing at all, which is the whole point of attachments!
- --
  ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.''  -- Steven Covey
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
     3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D;        Rich Thomson
     email me for more info                [e-mail]

- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 19:19:03 +0100
From: Chris DiPetta <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Matrox Millenium Cards

Has anyone ever gotten the special Matrox Millenium graphics modes to work?
I believe they have color depth selections of 16 and 24 bits, but I've only
gotten monochrome, if anything at all.

- -Chris DiPetta



- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 14:44:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ian Kaplan <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Word wrap and attachments

>     "Jay Hill"<[e-mail]>  writes:
> > I prefer inline posting, not attachments.  Attachments often loose
> > their authorship and origin info, then we have trouble attributing
> > derived work.  No matter how you do it, there is some editing
> > involved in storing this list info and keeping it in a recoverable
> > form.

   The normal reason to avoid attachments is that some readers may be
unable to use them- most often because they have e-mail accounts in
locations where they can't store files, or can't retrieve them if they do
store them.


- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 11:32:25 -0600
From: Rich Thomson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) JPEG suitability for fractals

Why use JPEG?  Because quite simply, sometimes disk space or
transmission time is more important than accuracy.  Especially true
if one can include the PAR settings as a text comment, then any viewer
who really wants the accuracy can load the image into fractint and
force a recalc.
- --
  ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.''  -- Steven Covey
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
     3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D;        Rich Thomson
     email me for more info                [e-mail]

- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 15:48:09 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Grasso, Nick)
Subject: Re: (fractint) Matrox Millenium Cards

At 07:19 PM 10/24/97 +0100, Chris DiPetta wrote:
>Has anyone ever gotten the special Matrox Millenium graphics modes to work?
>I believe they have color depth selections of 16 and 24 bits, but I've only
>gotten monochrome, if anything at all.

The only Millenium specific mode in fractint is 'Millenium VESA Mode'
(1600x1200x256), which works fine for me. There are several 'VESA
True-Color' modes in FRACTINT.CFG, but they are for developer testing only.
Currently, fractint doesn't support any color mode greater than 8 bit.

Nick


- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 13:05:48 -0700
From: "Jay Hill"<[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) JPEG suitability for fractals

Rich Thomson  wrote:

> then any viewer who really wants the accuracy can
> load the image into fractint and force a recalc.

To make this really work, the image file would need to
include the formula file if 'non-standard'.  I've seen some
neato images and tried to recalc only to find the formula
was unknown.

It would be nice to store equivalent of par and frm
file info and comments like authorship. Then these
should be viewable from Fractint.

Jay




- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 14:14:45 -0600
From: Rich Thomson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) JPEG suitability for fractals

In article <[e-mail]> ,
    "Jay Hill"<[e-mail]>  writes:
> To make this really work, the image file would need to
> include the formula file if 'non-standard'.  I've seen some
> neato images and tried to recalc only to find the formula
> was unknown.
>
> It would be nice to store equivalent of par and frm
> file info and comments like authorship. Then these
> should be viewable from Fractint.

There's no reason all of these things couldn't be included in every
fractint saved image.  No reason that is, except programmer time and
available memory in the medium programming model :)
- --
  ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.''  -- Steven Covey
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
     3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D;        Rich Thomson
     email me for more info                [e-mail]

- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 13:19:02 -0700 (MST)
From: Kerry Mitchell <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) nova-type formulas

Here are two variations of the nova formulas, one Julia-type and one
Mandelbrot type.  They both solve z^n = 1 by Newton's method, and add c to
the new iterate each time.  The exponent n is entered by parameter; it's
slower than a specific z^3 or z^4 formula, but it also supports fractional
exponents.  I've also made the Fractint variable z to be the change in the
iterate (which is zc), instead of the iterate itself.  For standard Newton
fractals, this allows the iteration bands to be colored using the decomp
coloring option.  Also included here is a sample par file, using the Julia
formula.

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kerry Mitchell
[e-mail]
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

novan_jul { ; Kerry Mitchell
    ; variation on Paul Derbyshire's nova formula, Julia-type
    ; Newton method for zc^n = 1, adding c each time
    ; beginning value of zc = pixel, c = p1
    ; inverse bailout = real(p2), exponent = imag(p2)
    ; z = change in zc each iteration
        c=p1, zc=pixel, r=real(p2), nm1=imag(p2)-1, fac=1/(nm1+1):
        fp=zc^nm1, f=zc*fp-1, z=fac*f/fp+c,
        zc=zc-z, |z| > r
        }

novan_man { ; Kerry Mitchell
    ; variation on Paul Derbyshire's nova formula, Mandelbrot-type
    ; Newton method for zc^n = 1, adding c each time.
    ; beginning value of zc = p1, c = pixel
    ; inverse bailout = real(p2), exponent = imag(p2)
    ; z = change of zc each iteration
        zc=p1, c=pixel, r=real(p2), nm1=imag(p2)-1, fac=1/(nm1+1):
        fp=zc^nm1, f=zc*fp-1, z=fac*f/fp+c,
        zc=zc-z, |z| > r
        }

test               {
  reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=fractint.frm formulaname=novan_jul
  center-mag=-0.621285/0/0.9712963/1.0667
  params=-1/0/1e-006/6 float=y maxiter=1000 inside=0 decomp=256
  periodicity=0 viewwindows=1/0.8/yes/0/0
  colors=000<40>x00z00z00<40>zy0zz0zz1<39>zzxzzzzzz<40>1zz0zz0yz<39>02z00z\
  00z<41>000 cyclerange=0/255
  }


- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 13:13:45 PST
From: NOEL_GIFFIN <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) JPEG suitability for fractals

Steven Covey wrote:

> Why use JPEG?  Because quite simply, sometimes disk space or
> transmission time is more important than accuracy.  Especially true
> if one can include the PAR settings as a text comment, then any viewer
> who really wants the accuracy can load the image into fractint and
> force a recalc.

    Well that's all fine but there are hundreds of applications
that will convert to jpeg format if you want it. The problem is you
can't ever really go back the other way once you've given up detail
with lossy compression. If jpeg is the graphic format adopted by fractint
then recalculating the image as you suggest wouldn't really improve the
accuracy. Using jpeg would also cause problems with saving
and restoring partial images. With GIF and PNG it is easy to load
and restart calculation, but I suspect JPG format would have some
difficulty with this.

    Noel Giffin

- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 14:40:55 -0600
From: Rich Thomson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) JPEG suitability for fractals

In article <[e-mail]> ,
    NOEL_GIFFIN <[e-mail]>  writes:
>     Well that's all fine but there are hundreds of applications
> that will convert to jpeg format if you want it.

If I'm storing images on my web site, having the user convert them to
JPEG after they've downloaded them misses the point of the better
compression of JPEG.  It doesn't save me any disk space and it didn't
save them any time downloading.

> The problem is you
> can't ever really go back the other way once you've given up detail
> with lossy compression.

Yes you can if you recompute the image.  Nobody is saying that you
have to use JPEG, but blanket statements that one should NEVER use
JPEG aren't useful.

> If jpeg is the graphic format adopted by fractint [...]

There seems to be this underlying assumption that fractint can only
deal with one image format.  This is silly.  There isn't any reason
why fractint couldn't support JPEG, GIF and PNG.  No reason except the
medium memory model under DOS, that is.

> Using jpeg would also cause problems with saving
> and restoring partial images.

So don't use JPEG for that.
- --
  ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.''  -- Steven Covey
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
     3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D;        Rich Thomson
     email me for more info                [e-mail]

- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 14:49:06 PST
From: NOEL_GIFFIN <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) JPEG suitability for fractals

Steve Covey wrote in response to:
> In article <[e-mail]> ,

>    NOEL_GIFFIN <[e-mail]>  writes:
>>     Well that's all fine but there are hundreds of applications
>> that will convert to jpeg format if you want it.
>
> If I'm storing images on my web site, having the user convert them to
> JPEG after they've downloaded them misses the point of the better
> compression of JPEG.  It doesn't save me any disk space and it didn't
> save them any time downloading.
Note that I said "if you want to", the implication being that you could
convert any image to jpg and store it at your site for download. This
would save your diskspace and the download time. This is still not
a substantial argument for adding the format to fractint.
>
>> The problem is you
>> can't ever really go back the other way once you've given up detail
>> with lossy compression.

> Yes you can if you recompute the image.  Nobody is saying that you
> have to use JPEG, but blanket statements that one should NEVER use
> JPEG aren't useful.
Actually you are misquoting me here. My original statement was phrased
as a question, although I admit my punctuation was wrong. Also it was
made within the context of this subject heading, "Re: (fractint) JPEG
suitability for fractals", and I still believe that this isn't the
best format for fractal images.
>
>> If jpeg is the graphic format adopted by fractint [...]
>
> There seems to be this underlying assumption that fractint can only
> deal with one image format.  This is silly.  There isn't any reason
> why fractint couldn't support JPEG, GIF and PNG.  No reason except the
> medium memory model under DOS, that is.

Well there is also the work involved in adding parameter blocks,
possibly formula blocks, and duplicating this structure in all file
formats, debugging, etc... Fractint is complicated enough. Unless
jpeg adds some functionality unavailable elsewhere or provides
some useful utility, it wouldn't be high on my priority list if I was
doing the work. I'm not, so my opinion isn't that important.
>
>> Using jpeg would also cause problems with saving
>> and restoring partial images.

> So don't use JPEG for that.
But if it isn't capable of this, is it really worth adding?

    Noel

- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 18:13:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: (fractint) Potential Max Color Problem

Hi!  I'm having a problem running Fractint 19.6 under Windows 95.  The
Potential Max Color , Slope, Bailout options (the Y options) do not seem to
work.  I've tried running the program in a DOS window and running it in DOS
mode.  Same problem either way.  Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong?
 Thanks.

Bill Rossi
http://members.aol.com/billatny/fractopi.htm

- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 16:24:15 -0600
From: Rich Thomson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) JPEG suitability for fractals

In article <[e-mail]> ,
    NOEL_GIFFIN <[e-mail]>  writes:
> > Yes you can if you recompute the image.  Nobody is saying that you
> > have to use JPEG, but blanket statements that one should NEVER use
> > JPEG aren't useful.
> Actually you are misquoting me here.

Actually I'm not quoting you at all, which is why there's no >'s
quoting you as saying that.

> I still believe that [JPEG] isn't the best format for fractal images.

And naturally you are entitled to your opinion, but its just your
opinion.  Other people have different opinions.  JPEG is a very common
file format now; more prevalent than GIF files.  Lots of people like
the small file sizes of JPEG and don't mind the compression artifacts.
Once the medium memory model is gone in fractint, there isn't any
technical barrier to adding JPEG support for file I/O.

> Well there is also the work involved in adding parameter blocks,
> possibly formula blocks, and duplicating this structure in all file
> formats, debugging, etc...

There is nothing special about JPEG in this respect.  Adding any new
feature to fractint requires debugging, etc.  As for adding the
parameter blocks, etc., all the code to do that is already there, its
just not applied to JPEG output.

> >> Using jpeg would also cause problems with saving
> >> and restoring partial images.
>
> > So don't use JPEG for that.
> But if it isn't capable of this, is it really worth adding?

I thought about it a little more and you CAN finish a partially
computed image that was stored as JPEG.  There is nothing in JPEG that
would prevent this capability.  There's nothing different from GIF in
this respect.

To summarize, all the things we now do with GIF images can be done
with JPEG images.  Yes, JPEG achieves its compression by doing lossy
compression.  If you want lossless images, then use another format.
Give the artist/user tools, not rules.
- --
  ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.''  -- Steven Covey
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
     3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D;        Rich Thomson
     email me for more info                [e-mail]

- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

End of fractint Digest V1 #38
*****************************

To subscribe to fractint Digest, send the command:

    subscribe fractint-digest

in the body of a message to "[e-mail]".  If you want to
subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such
as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-fractint":

    subscribe fractint-digest [e-mail]

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "fractint-digest"
in the commands above with "fractint".

Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in
pub/lists/fractint/archive.  These are organized by date.