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fractint Digest       Saturday, October 4 1997       Volume 01 : Number 022



In this issue:

    (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug?
    (fractint) 3D Formula
    Re: (fractint) An interesting fractal
    Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug?
    Re: (fractint) An interesting fractal
    Re: (fractint) An interesting fractal
    Re: (fractint) An interesting fractal
    Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug?
    (fractint) Centering problem
    Re: (fractint) Centering problem
    Re: (fractint) Centering problem
    [none]
    Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug?
    Re: (fractint) An interesting fractal
    Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug?
    Re: (fractint) An interesting fractal
    Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug?
    (fractint) Howdy!
    Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug?
    Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug?
    Re: (fractint) Howdy!
    Re: (fractint) Howdy!
    (fractint) SnowFlakeColor
    Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug?
    Re: (fractint) An interesting fractal
    Re: (fractint) Howdy!
    Re: (fractint) SnowFlakeColor
    (fractint) Mailing list is dropping letters on the floor

See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the fractint
or fractint-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 09:15:40 +0100
From: Roelf Renkema <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug?

Still can't get 9.6 up and running on my machine. I installed a new
graphics card but it still won't go.
Is does run an older machine but this baby here says no and:

I'm using the dos version 19.6.
Now under DOS it just won't startup and crashes my system (a Cyrix 486-dx2
66Mhz)
Under Win95 I get the message that it's using a wrong instruction and halts on
391D:0BE0 interupts used none

BTW I Got the right archive I followed Noels messies on that

So I think (but who am I) that there is a problem in the code.

So I now give you Fractint programmers the option:

Turn the code upside down
or
Deliver a new window version

or else

I will go play somewhere else.

Ha must be a hard choice for you guys and girls &8-D



Greetz Grey
- --                                            _/_/|
        grey@nym,alias.net                 (o(o) \
          ' The Wolf '                  OO~~     /
                                        \--__   ,/
    "I like'm sweet and wet"            |/~  `-'

 Proud member of nl.erotiek.bdsm


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 01:28:32 -0700
From: cindy mitchell <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) 3D Formula

Both Linda and Rich were correct. My 3D comes after each and every " = "
sign, also at the end of each line in the color section. So along with
deleting I have to reformat.

I am so glad for this forum. It is nice to know there are so many fractint
enthusiast
out there.
        Thank You,
             Cindy



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 09:39:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail] (Paul Derbyshire)
Subject: Re: (fractint) An interesting fractal

If you try some guy's frm file and see nothing/garbage, try:

* maxiter=2000
* float=y
* zooming out, zooming in
* outside=iter/viewwindows=n/inside=0/color cycle (just in case your
  palette is goofed up or you set inside=outside=0 or something!)
* Check the z screen. Some formulas use a parameter as a bailout. If you
  use the default 0 you'll get nothing. Look for a comment saying "use
  small nonzero number for p2" or large number or whatever, and look for the
  formula ending with something like lastsqr<=p2 or something. Try a big
  real number for p1 or p2, then the other, then small numbers like 0.001.

- --
    .*.  Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese]
 -()  <  When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix"
    `*'  bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me]
Paul Derbyshire [e-mail], http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 10:26:06 -0700
From: "Jay Hill"<[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug?

Greetz Grey wrote:

>So I think (but who am I) that there is a problem in the code.

There may be the possibility that your Cyrix 486-dx2 chip is bad, over
speed or getting too hot.
On the Merseene list, there have been extensive discussions about Non-Intel
chips
(specifically Pentium level) not performing as well as Intel on
mathematical processes.

The guts of the Merseene algorithm (http://www.mersenne.org/prime.htm) are
used
by Intel as part of their spot test of the processors.


Jay



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 11:19:44 -0700
From: "Jay Hill"<[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) An interesting fractal

Charles wrote:

>Looking at the center of a side at a considerable magnification and a
count
of 1023 it appears that we have a smooth border.


Well it still has a smooth vorder with maxiter = 1e9.  But the edge moved
in a little.
Strange....

Jay


Fig3               { ; raise count and zoom to edge
                     ; looks like smooth lines still
  reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=dewey.frm formulaname=test97c
  center-mag=-0.11277288466532970/+0.22362335945091970/1525879
  params=0/-1 float=y maxiter=1023000000
  colors=0D0000<15>9Tx<24>24N13M12K00I00H<14>001000000<2>800B00F10I10<4>W4\
  0Z50a60c70e80g90jB0<2>oE0qF0sH0tJ0vK0wM0xN0<4>zV0zW0yT0<2>sJ0qF0nE0mE0<4\
  >Z80W60T50Q30O30<3>E10C00B00<10>100000100200<5>B0AD0CE0F<20>k0w<7>N0QK0M\
  J0L<17>401000<2>010020040<26>0d00f00e0<25>080060050030020000000
  }




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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 09:58:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail] (Paul Derbyshire)
Subject: Re: (fractint) An interesting fractal

>>Looking at the center of a side at a considerable magnification and a
>count
>of 1023 it appears that we have a smooth border.
>
>
>Well it still has a smooth vorder with maxiter = 1e9.  But the edge moved
>in a little.

Could you resend that Charles? Some copies of it got garbled in the mail
system. Mine for instance came out "1e9" :-)


- --
    .*.  Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese]
 -()  <  When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix"
    `*'  bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me]
Paul Derbyshire [e-mail], http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Oct 97 10:21:52 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Dewey Odhner)
Subject: Re: (fractint) An interesting fractal

> From: [e-mail] (MR CHARLES F CROCKER)
> Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 23:35:18, -0500
...
> Looking at the center of a side at a considerable magnification and a count
> of 1023 it appears that we have a smooth border. But if we go down closer
> to the chaotic appearing area and raise the count we see high count
> filaments creeping twords the center. I suspect that at high enough counts
> and magnification the apparently smooth side will break up everywhere.

You are probably right.  I retract my conjecture that there is a
neighborhood where the boundary has fractal dimension 1.  But those
filaments that cluster against the smooth part of the boundary do not
attach to the smooth part, but around the ends.  Thus I still
conjecture that it is non-locally connected.

- --Dewey

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 17:51:42 +0100
From: Roelf Renkema <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug?

Op 10:26 1-10-97 -0700 schreef Jay Hill zoiets als:
>
>Greetz Grey wrote:
>
>>So I think (but who am I) that there is a problem in the code.
>
>There may be the possibility that your Cyrix 486-dx2 chip is bad, over
>speed or getting too hot.

Na it must be somewhere in the instructionset. If it would be the latter
then it should occure with other software to and I'm sorry to say that only
Fractint troubles me. But I will check. Tomorow I will try the proccessor
from my other computer on which Fractint runs without problems,in this one.
Talk about debugging &8-)

>On the Merseene list, there have been extensive discussions about Non-Intel
>chips
>(specifically Pentium level) not performing as well as Intel on
>mathematical processes.
>
>The guts of the Merseene algorithm (http://www.mersenne.org/prime.htm) are
>used
>by Intel as part of their spot test of the processors.
>
>
>Jay

Thanx for the tip anyway, we will see I keep you folks posted.

Gray.

Greetz Grey
- --                                            _/_/|
        grey@nym,alias.net                 (o(o) \
          ' The Wolf '                  OO~~     /
                                        \--__   ,/
    "I like'm sweet and wet"            |/~  `-'

 Proud member of nl.erotiek.bdsm


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 15:34:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: A M Kelley <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Centering problem

- --1920402471-743720403-875820975:#23014
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Is there any way to center this fellow? --Alice

- --1920402471-743720403-875820975:#23014
Content-Type: APPLICATION/octet-stream; name="center.par"
Content-ID: <Pine.3.07.9710021515.A23014@login>
Content-Description:

Flying_squirrel    { ; [e-mail]
  reset=1960 type=julfn+zsqrd function=ident passes=1
  center-mag=-0.42372894500000010/-0.00009917999999998/0.7528158/0.9997
  params=-0.85162353515625/0.4166107177734375 maxiter=300
  bailoutest=and inside=bof60 logmap=yes symmetry=yaxis
  colors=Y0Azzm<5>yoRxmNxkJwiFvfD<3>qU6pR4oQ4<12>ZC5YB5W96U87T77R58<6>iVG<\
  14>vqgwsiwsh<13>wjHwiFwiF<10>mZFlXFkWFjUEiTE<9>ZEBXCAXCA<29>mZEn_FmZFlYF\
  kXF<2>jVEjUEiTDiSC<5>gM9gL8gL8fK8<12>YD9XCAXDA<13>hSCiUDiUEiVEiVEjWFiVG<\
  14>vqgwsiwsh<14>wiFD12A00<7>V09`0C<25>yxl
  }


- --1920402471-743720403-875820975:#23014--


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 15:58:52 -0400
From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Centering problem

Alice,

 - Is there any way to center this fellow? --Alice

Sure.  Press "z", F6, enter "0" for Center X.  Hit return twice.

Unless this is not what you mean...

Neat picture.

Damien M. Jones  /  temporary sanity designs  /  http://www.emi.net/~dmj/
   [e-mail]  /  my gallery: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/2605/


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 16:25:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (fractint) Centering problem

In a message dated 97-10-02 15:43:50 EDT, you write:

<<
 Is there any way to center this fellow? --Alice
  >>

Alice,
This fractal is a Julia which does not have y axis symmetry. Since you forced
symmetry with Y center not equal to zero, you image was offset. I tinkered
with the par by setting the Y center to zero and changing the magnification a
little. The center part of the image seems to changed a little bit. This is a
really nice image. Here is the modified par:

Ron Barnett

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Flying_squirrel2   { ; t=  0:00:17.14
                     ; On a 486 66 at 320 x 200
  reset=1960 type=julfn+zsqrd function=ident passes=1
  center-mag=+0.00225067000000001/+0.00061798499999999/0.6502007/0.9995
  params=-0.85162353515625/0.4166107177734375 maxiter=300
  bailoutest=and inside=bof60 logmap=yes symmetry=yaxis
  colors=Y0Azzm<5>yoRxmNxkJwiFvfD<3>qU6pR4oQ4<12>ZC5YB5W96U87T77R58<5>fRFi\
  VGjXI<13>vqgwsiwsh<13>wjHwiFwiF<10>mZFlXFkWFjUEiTE<7>`HC_GBZEBXCAXCA<29>\
  mZEn_FmZF<2>kWFjWEjVEjUE<7>gM9gL8gL8fK8<12>YD9XCAXDA<13>hSCiUDiUEiVEiVEj\
  WFiVG<14>vqgwsiwsh<14>wiFD12A00<7>V09`0C<25>yxl
  }

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 19:27:30 -0700
From: Peter Jakubowicz <[e-mail]>
Subject: [none]

Hi,
I have a possibly dumb question? Can someone tell me who GeneDeWeese is?
Sorry, only kidding. What I am really wondering about is how to post a
FRACTINT formula and/or parameter file. Do people somehow save them as text
files and attach them to their messages? I gather they are not typed out by
hand. I wld appreciate any tips, as I might be so bold as to post some for
anyone interested. Also thanks for the recent answers to my question about
anti-aliasing -- the   signal processing analogy, I think, is quite
brilliant, gives me a very good picture of the process.

                Thanks,
                Peter Jakubowicz



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 21:46:10 -0600
From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug?

Greetz wrote:

> Na it must be somewhere in the instructionset. If it would be the latter
> then it should occure with other software to and I'm sorry to say that only
> Fractint troubles me.

Sometimes non-standard hardware hangs when hardware tests are made.
One strategy is to try to disable hardware tests. Have you read the
"common problems in the docs"? Try these one at a time on the command
line:

fpu=noiit
fpu=387
adapter=vga
vesadetect=no

Just fishing for a possible answer to your Cyrix problem.

Tim




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------------------------------

Date: Thu,  2 Oct 1997 23:48:44, -0500
From: [e-mail] (MR CHARLES F CROCKER)
Subject: Re: (fractint) An interesting fractal

   Paul said "Some copies of it got garbled in the mail system. Mine for
instance came out "1e9""

Mine came out 1e9 also. That's less than half of what Fractints good for.
Actually that was Jay's comment. The count skyrockets so fast that most of
the high counts occur in a very narrow region and the main figure gets into
a loop so fast that times are reasonable until magnification gets quite
high. I am willing to accept on faith that the border will eventually breakup.

As an example of how far you might have to go here are three par files for
a point near the main figure and close to the obviously brokenup area.

Fig1               { ; Solid high count band,almost
                     ; P90  time  0:06:49.69
  reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=dewey.frm formulaname=test97c
  center-mag=-0.49040957924146630/+0.05334815365641891/4.563969e+009
  params=0/-1 float=y maxiter=16384 inside=40
  viewwindows=4.2/0.75/yes/0/0
  }

Fig2               { ; Isolated dot becomes line
                     ; P90 time  0:03:05.71
  reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=dewey.frm formulaname=test97c
  center-mag=-0.49040957899188690/+0.05334815373397910/9.127939e+010
  params=0/-1 float=y maxiter=16384 inside=40
  viewwindows=4.2/0.75/yes/0/0
  }

Fig3               { ; Which contains other solid lines
                     ; P90 time  0:08:00.60
  reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=dewey.frm formulaname=test97c
  center-mag=-0.49040957899188690/+0.05334815373630590/9.127916e+011
  params=0/-1 float=y maxiter=16384 inside=40
  viewwindows=4.2/0.75/yes/0/0
  }

I set inside color to 40 to make the high count area readily apparent. This
is as far as my patience lasted. Sort of like using an electron microscope
to examine the road before a cross country trip. Might be a little hard to
locate all the side roads.

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 14:43:38 +0100
From: Roelf Renkema <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug?

Now the problem is getting weirder.

Dig this....

I tried another graphic card NO DO
and now
I tried another processor NO DO

This other proccessor came from a computer where fractint had no problem at
all. I'm spooked. It can't be that the second graphic card gives also
trouble could it? Its a diamond stealth 2400 with 4 mb on board. Something
weird is going on.

Well atleast my pc got a complete overhaul &8-)

Greetz Grey
- --                                            _/_/|
        grey@nym,alias.net                 (o(o) \
          ' The Wolf '                  OO~~     /
                                        \--__   ,/
    "I like'm sweet and wet"            |/~  `-'

 Proud member of nl.erotiek.bdsm

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 11:00:33 -0700
From: "Jay Hill"<[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) An interesting fractal

VRCH78B wrote:

>I set inside color to 40 to make the high count area readily apparent.
This
>is as far as my patience lasted. Sort of like using an electron microscope
>to examine the road before a cross country trip. Might be a little hard to
>locate all the side roads.

I set your iteration limit up by a factor of 100 and find your Fig3 is not
at the edge.

Looking at the orbits, I see the smooth triangular interior region has
period =1.
Now we should be able to solve by Newton's mehtod, if need be, for the
boundary
and show it has smooth sides.  It looks to me that only in the corners is
it otherwise.

My $.03 worth.

Jay



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 17:16:49 -0600
From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug?

Roelf asked:

> It can't be that the second graphic card gives also
> trouble could it? Its a diamond stealth 2400 with 4 mb on board. Something
> weird is going on.

A video board could hang fractint because of the tests for video
boards on runup. This can be positively checked by using the
adapter=vga commandline option. If Fractint still hangs with that
option it's not video.

Are you positive you have a good copy of Fractint? Did you change
the complete motherboard or just the CPU chip? ARe you sure the
memory is OK?

If you swap out *everything* it should work <g!>

Tim


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Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 18:14:57 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: (fractint) Howdy!

Howdy!
My name is Merle L. Newsted Jr. but please call me Nuke.
I've had an interest in fractals for about two years. A friend lent me a
copy of Mandelbrot's "Fractal geometry of Nature". out of sight!

Well. I searched the web and found Fractint 19.5 about six months ago,
and I 've had a lot of fun with it. Thanks .
Now here is my first serious attempt at writing my own fractal. I used
the tutorial for L-system fractals on the spanky web site.
I made a really beautiful desktop screen for windows by running a 12
iterations (i think) and then cycling the colors till the "trunk" brown
and the tips were a purpley pink "flower".
Well. If anybody tries it I'd like to know what you think.
later
nuke)*(

Fltree(with color) {    ;author Nuke - My first real attempt
    Angle 32
    Axiom +++++++++X
    X=<01F[@.64+++X]-F[@.29---X]@.5X
    }

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 08:41:17 +0100
From: Roelf Renkema <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug?

Op 17:16 3-10-97 -0600 schreef Tim Wegner zoiets als:
>Roelf asked:
>
>> It can't be that the second graphic card gives also
>> trouble could it? Its a diamond stealth 2400 with 4 mb on board. Something
>> weird is going on.
>
>A video board could hang fractint because of the tests for video
>boards on runup. This can be positively checked by using the
>adapter=vga commandline option. If Fractint still hangs with that
>option it's not video.

OK lets forget the video &8-)

>
>Are you positive you have a good copy of Fractint? Did you change
>the complete motherboard or just the CPU chip? ARe you sure the
>memory is OK?

It runs on my other PC so it should be good, the archive is the one Noell
stated as the right one. Ofcause I only changed the chip wouldn't make
sense else now would it. Memory is just fine.

ONLY THE S&%t EXE WONT RUN (starting to cry now)

>
>If you swap out *everything* it should work <g!>
>
Don't temped me! Pub is just around the corner &8-D

Greetz Grey
- --                                            _/_/|
        grey@nym,alias.net                 (o(o) \
          ' The Wolf '                  OO~~     /
                                        \--__   ,/
    "I like'm sweet and wet"            |/~  `-'

 Proud member of nl.erotiek.bdsm

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Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 11:00:13 -0400
From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug?

Grey,

Whatever your problem with FractInt is, it's not because it doesn't work
with Cyrix CPUs.  I've used FractInt on Cyrix 486, 5x86, and 6x86
processors.  It always ran fine.

Also, I seriously doubt it's an overclocking thing.  Having overclocked (or
at least attempted to) every processor I've ever owned or built into a
system, it's been my experience that DOS real mode programs (like FractInt)
are generally the *most* reliable at higher speeds.  Crashes usually occur
in protected modes, like most modern games or systems like Windows.  So
this is almost certainly not it.

This is one bizarre problem, dude.

Damien M. Jones  /  temporary sanity designs  /  http://www.emi.net/~dmj/
   [e-mail]  /  my gallery: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/2605/


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Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 15:48:16 -0400
From: Thierry Boudet <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Howdy!

        Hello Nuke.

I have tested your "nice flower". I like it !
I have never played with L-system, but I'm going now
to try it. Only one note: may be you can put your
e-mail in a comment in the formule ?

And now _my_ question: why zoom fonctions are
disabled in L-system ? I cant' see a technical
reason, because I think that the complete image
is computed in the first pass (twirlling baton)
an displayed in the second pass. Is there a
guru here for an explanation ?

        Best regards from Toulouse, France

        Thierry Boudet

- ------------------------------------
Fltree(with color) { ;author Nuke
        Angle 32
        Axiom +++++++++X
        X=<01F[@.64+++X]-F[@.29---X]@.5X
        }
- ------------------------------------


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 14:15:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (fractint) Howdy!

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Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 19:02:37 -0600
From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) SnowFlakeColor

This is a somewhwat technical note, but if you are interested in
lsystems, you might want to read it.

A while ago someone here reminded us that the Lsystems image
SnowFlakeColor has been broken for a long time. I traced back through
my old version archives and determined that the last version of
fractint that correctly rendered SnowFlakeColor was also the last
version before the assembler speedups for lsystems were added. Since
the Linux version of Fractint has no trouble with this fractal, and
also does not use assembler, I thought this conclusively demonstarted
that the bug was in the assembler. I suggested something along the
lines of disabling the fast assembler.

Well, it turns out I was wrong. Today I was thinking about this, and
wondered if the debug=70 switch which disables the detection of a
coprocessor would make lsystems use C rather rthan assembler. (See
debugflag.doc for "undocumented" switches like this.) In the process
of experiementing, I discovered that SnowFlakeColor worked in my
personal develoiper version!

It turns out tha SnowFlakeColor fails because of a shortage of stack
space. Stack is the memory used to allocate space for local variables
in routines. Lsystems uses a recursive algorithm, which means that
the main lsystems function calls itself as the image is rendered.
Each time a new call is made to the recursive function, new copies of
the local variables are allocated from the stack. If the depth of
recursion is too great, stack memory will run out, and the fractal
will fail.

I had to increase the stack memory in my personal version to get a
prototype of the synchronous orbits (fractal witchcraft) routine to
work. Since more stack was available, SnowFlakeColor worked!

So we know what the problem is. Fixing it won't be easy, but I'll
make sure SnowFlakeColor is OK for the next release. There are many
trials and tribulations shoehorning more features into a conventional
memory propgram like Fractint - we are constantly figuring out how to
squeeze more out of limited memory. This burden will be removed
eventually, but not yet.

Oh yes - the fact that SnowFlakeColor broke when we added assembler
was just a coincidence. I'm sure that first version that broke just
had less stack space allocated than the version before.

Tim




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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 23:24:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail] (Paul Derbyshire)
Subject: Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug?

>Sometimes non-standard hardware hangs when hardware tests are made.
>One strategy is to try to disable hardware tests. Have you read the
>"common problems in the docs"?

Of course if it hangs on startup he won't be able to reach the "common
problems" help screen, except by going reading it or using makedoc on a
machine where it runs ok.


- --
    .*.  Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese]
 -()  <  When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix"
    `*'  bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me]
Paul Derbyshire [e-mail], http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh

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Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 23:26:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail] (Paul Derbyshire)
Subject: Re: (fractint) An interesting fractal

You're telling me this guy really used 1 billion maxiter?!

- --
    .*.  Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese]
 -()  <  When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix"
    `*'  bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me]
Paul Derbyshire [e-mail], http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 23:50:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail] (Paul Derbyshire)
Subject: Re: (fractint) Howdy!

>
>
>
>


Neat, concise, very compact, and no grammatical or spelling errors.
However, I must take fifteen marks off for these: Your essay lacks a focus
or main point, it is ambiguous and unspecific, and you don't present even
one point or example or argument to support your thesis, which itself is
non-existent.

:-)


- --
    .*.  Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese]
 -()  <  When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix"
    `*'  bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me]
Paul Derbyshire [e-mail], http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 23:54:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail] (Paul Derbyshire)
Subject: Re: (fractint) SnowFlakeColor

>This is a somewhwat technical note, but if you are interested in
>lsystems, you might want to read it.
>
>A while ago someone here reminded us that the Lsystems image
>SnowFlakeColor has been broken for a long time. I traced back through
>my old version archives and determined that the last version of
>fractint that correctly rendered SnowFlakeColor was also the last
>version before the assembler speedups for lsystems were added. Since
>the Linux version of Fractint has no trouble with this fractal, and
>also does not use assembler, I thought this conclusively demonstarted
>that the bug was in the assembler. I suggested something along the
>lines of disabling the fast assembler.
>
>Well, it turns out I was wrong. Today I was thinking about this, and
>wondered if the debug=70 switch which disables the detection of a
>coprocessor would make lsystems use C rather rthan assembler. (See
>debugflag.doc for "undocumented" switches like this.) In the process
>of experiementing, I discovered that SnowFlakeColor worked in my
>personal develoiper version!
>
>It turns out tha SnowFlakeColor fails because of a shortage of stack
>space. Stack is the memory used to allocate space for local variables
>in routines. Lsystems uses a recursive algorithm, which means that
>the main lsystems function calls itself as the image is rendered.
>Each time a new call is made to the recursive function, new copies of
>the local variables are allocated from the stack. If the depth of
>recursion is too great, stack memory will run out, and the fractal
>will fail.
>
>I had to increase the stack memory in my personal version to get a
>prototype of the synchronous orbits (fractal witchcraft) routine to
>work. Since more stack was available, SnowFlakeColor worked!
>
>So we know what the problem is. Fixing it won't be easy, but I'll
>make sure SnowFlakeColor is OK for the next release. There are many
>trials and tribulations shoehorning more features into a conventional
>memory propgram like Fractint - we are constantly figuring out how to
>squeeze more out of limited memory. This burden will be removed
>eventually, but not yet.

Glad the problem has been resolved. (This of course further argues for a
32-bit version for DOS... and overclocked Cyrix chips can go hang, if 32
bit protected mode will otherwise greatly improve performance and
expandability...

waitaminnit...WHAT did you just say?

>I had to increase the stack memory in my personal version to get a
>prototype of the synchronous orbits (fractal witchcraft) routine to
>work.

That's what I THOUGHT you said. SYCHRONOUS ORBITS?! WOOHOO!


- --
    .*.  Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese]
 -()  <  When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix"
    `*'  bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me]
Paul Derbyshire [e-mail], http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 00:04:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail] (Paul Derbyshire)
Subject: (fractint) Mailing list is dropping letters on the floor

I am copying this directly to twegner because the list copy may not make
it to anyone as I shall shortly explain.

Today I rapidly sent off about six articles to the list. As usual, it was
a while before I received copies from the mailing list. But, I received
the second, fifth, and sixth. The first, third, and fifth never made it.
Clearly the list got them, because it got and sent the sixth. So it got
them but didn't send them! This would seem to indicate a serious software
problem somewhere at the server (xmission.com?). Fortunately, I keep
carbon copies of all my outgoing mail anyways, so as soon as I become
aware the problem has been rectified I shall be able to resend the three
lost messages and will incur no irreperable damage at my
end...unfortunately the same might not prove true for other users of the list.
A software problem that eats messages without a trace, or even a bounce,
and thus causes possible permanent loss of data, is serious enough that I
feel it warrants being checked into at earliest convenience and at top
priority, by whomever is in charge of such things at xmission...

If software troubles at xmission are not something you (twegner) can
directly deal with, I guess you must know who can, since you got the list
set up there through somebody, and then this message should be forwarded
to the appropriate technical person.
Thank you...


- --
    .*.  Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese]
 -()  <  When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix"
    `*'  bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me]
Paul Derbyshire [e-mail], http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh

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End of fractint Digest V1 #22
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