ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/fractdev/archive/v01.n011

Internet Message Format | 1998-07-23 | 41KB

From: [e-mail] (fractdev-digest)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: fractdev-digest V1 #11
Reply-To: fractdev-digest
Sender: [e-mail]
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: bulk


fractdev-digest        Thursday, July 23 1998        Volume 01 : Number 011




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 12:50:46 -0400
From: "Peter Gavin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractdev) RE: (fractint) Ultra Fractal 2.0 beta 5

Kragen just recommended to me the GNU-Win32 tools from Cygnus, and I was
thinking...  any luck using these to compile the Linux version of fractint
for win32?  Has anyone tried? :)

Pete
<[e-mail]>

//  -----Original Message-----
//  From: [e-mail]
//  [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Damien M. Jones
//  Sent: Thursday, July 23, 1998 12:41 PM
//  To: [e-mail]
//  Subject: RE: (fractdev) RE: (fractint) Ultra Fractal 2.0 beta 5
//
//
//  Peter,
//
//   - Great!  You can get MASM 6.0 as part of the Win98 DDK
//
//  Yep.  It's gems like that I read the newsgroup for.  Most of it
//  is pretty
//  lame, kids looking for people to help them with homework or
//  something, but
//  once in a while there's something really good.
//
//  BTW, make sure you pick up the latest copy of Agner Fog's Pentium
//  optimization guide.  Even if you don't use it, it contains a lot of
//  interesting material about how things work inside the Pentium
//  and Pentium-II.
//
//  Damien M. Jones   \\
//  [e-mail]  \\  http://www.icd.com/tsd/ (temporary
//  sanity designs)
//                      \\  http://www.fractalus.com/ (fractals are
//  my hobby)
//
//  --------------------------------------------------------------
//  Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
//  Post Message:   [e-mail]
//  Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
//  Administrator:  [e-mail]
//  Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"
//


- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 12:59:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail] (Kragen)
Subject: (fractdev) Fractint in dosemu

I'm running Fractint 19.5 in dosemu 0.66.7 (under Caldera OpenDOS 7.01)
in XFree86 3.3.2 on Linux 2.0.30 on an AMD 5x86-133.  I'm liking it
very much!  Now I can do fractals in a window while I'm analyzing data,
reading my email, or whatever.

But there are some problems with it.  I think most of these are
problems with dosemu; I wonder if some of them could be worked around
in Fractint without any difficulty?

I hope this message is interesting to some of the fractint developers.
I'm sure it will be to the dosemu developers.

- - When I select 800x600x256 from the DEL screen, it works properly, and
dosemu says: vesa_set_SVGA_mode(): mode=0x5e.  But if I TAB to the info
screen, then hit TAB again to get back to the picture, it doesn't print
that message, and it also doesn't redisplay the picture.  It looks like
it's displaying the first few pixels of the image as text, though -- my
screen fills with multicolored blocks of characters.  (Screenshots upon
request.)

Switching back and forth works fine at 320x200x256.

I have the same problem with some other VESA modes, too.  Maybe it's
universal to all of them.

The blocks of characters also appear momentarily switching from the
image to a text screen -- for example, when I hit 'T'.

- - Sometimes Fractint seems to hang.  If I hit Esc a couple of times, I
can get to a menu and a sensible state, but if I'm in a VESA mode, of
course I've lost my fractal.  I suspect Fractint is trying to do
something, but I'm not seeing what it's doing due to some flaw in
dosemu.

- - Sometimes, in VESA mode, solid-guessing doesn't fill in the solids on
some lines.  I'll see a fractal with big black cracks across it, with
dots scattered in the cracks.  The cracks go away on later iterations;
I mention this because it might be of help with other problems.

- - color-cycling doesn't work.  plasma displays with the default VGA
colormap, and thus looks terrible.  This is obviously not fractint's
fault -- right?

- - Sometimes, when zooming in (even in 320x200x256), my zoom box gets
filled with black.  This makes it hard to zoom.  Also, when TABbing
back and forth on some bifurcation fractals, what was previously drawn
gets erased -- it's displayed for a brief moment when returning to the
picture, then the whole screen becomes black, then the fractal
continues drawing from the right edge of what was previously drawn.

This happens, for example, during the first zoom in basic.key.

- - Drawing an "icons" fractal after a "mandel" fractal at 320x200x256,
the top and bottom of the "mandel" fractal (above and below where the
"icons" fractal appears) remain on the screen.  The same is true of
running "diffusion" or "lsystem", or running "ant" after "plasma", or
even "ant" after "ant".  I suspect it's a general problem erasing the
screen.

(In fact, when zooming in on a "mandel" in solid-guessing mode, the old
image is progressively erased as the new image is drawn.  I initially
thought this was a clever new feature.)

- - When I try the 1280x1024x256 VESA mode, Fractint says it's not
supported with my adapter.

- - lsystem doesn't seem to work well at all in the VESA modes.  It looks
like fractint first switches to the VESA video mode, then switches back
to text-mode to display the L-System thinking message, then fails the
same way coming back from TAB or F1 fails.

OTOH, it works pretty well with the MCGA mode.  *sigh*

- - When saving an image (in MCGA mode), the text message that normally
appears in the upper-left-hand corner of the screen when it finishes is
only one pixel high, and the rest of that scan line turns to black.

- - Fractint consistently crashed dosemu during the demo:
ERROR: unexpected CPU exception 0x06 errorcode: 0x00000000 while in vm86 (DOS)

Program=sigsegv.c, Line=230
EIP: 0000:0000008d ESP: 4363:0000f032  VFLAGS(b): 00000 00110000 10000110
EAX: 00004201 EBX: 000099fe ECX: 000007cc EDX: 00000000 VFLAGS(h): 00003086
ESI: 00000012 EDI: 0000f52c EBP: 0000f44a DS: 4363 ES: 4363 FS: 0000 GS: 0000
FLAGS: PF SF IF RF VM  IOPL: 3
STACK: 00 00 f8 bf 00 00 00 00 00 00 -> 00 42 91 0c f1 0c 46 32 c2 15
OPS  : 01 39 10 00 01 26 01 d2 0a ca -> 26 8e 37 1c 01 d2 0a 41 10 00

Just after successfully loading new19001.gif.

(in new19.key.)

To reproduce: run demo.bat, select option 2, and wait.

I think this happens every time you try to browse images (with "L").  I
seem to remember that this used to crash the computer in real MS-DOS as
well.  Running fractint, hitting F3, and typing "L" makes it crash, too
(in dosemu, that is).  Sometimes it crashes with different register
values.


Anyway, I'm looking forward to looking at all the fractint list
formulas and pars with my nifty new toy.  :)

Kragen




- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:15:34 -0400
From: "Peter Gavin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractdev) Fractint in dosemu

I suspect the video problems have alot to do with the fact that your running
it in a window.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think VESA uses direct
hardware access to display graphics, which makes it fast, but windows 95
doesn't like that, so I figure X/Dosemu doesn't either.  In fact, if I
switch out of fractint while it's in a VESA graphics mode, I can't go back
and windows tells me it must close the program.  I _can_ use 320x200 or
320x240 but only the former works in a window.  All other graphics modes are
unusable.  I suppose part of the problem is caused by fractint trying to
write straight to the screen, interfering with X in some way.  And dosemu
looks like it's still in beta, from its version number <g>.


Pete
<[e-mail]>

//  -----Original Message-----
//  From: [e-mail]
//  [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Kragen
//  Sent: Thursday, July 23, 1998 1:00 PM
//  To: [e-mail]
//  Cc: [e-mail]
//  Subject: (fractdev) Fractint in dosemu
//
//
//  I'm running Fractint 19.5 in dosemu 0.66.7 (under Caldera OpenDOS 7.01)
//  in XFree86 3.3.2 on Linux 2.0.30 on an AMD 5x86-133.  I'm liking it
//  very much!  Now I can do fractals in a window while I'm analyzing data,
//  reading my email, or whatever.
//
//  But there are some problems with it.  I think most of these are
//  problems with dosemu; I wonder if some of them could be worked around
//  in Fractint without any difficulty?
//
//  I hope this message is interesting to some of the fractint developers.
//  I'm sure it will be to the dosemu developers.
//
//  - When I select 800x600x256 from the DEL screen, it works properly, and
//  dosemu says: vesa_set_SVGA_mode(): mode=0x5e.  But if I TAB to the info
//  screen, then hit TAB again to get back to the picture, it doesn't print
//  that message, and it also doesn't redisplay the picture.  It looks like
//  it's displaying the first few pixels of the image as text, though -- my
//  screen fills with multicolored blocks of characters.  (Screenshots upon
//  request.)
//
//  Switching back and forth works fine at 320x200x256.
//
//  I have the same problem with some other VESA modes, too.  Maybe it's
//  universal to all of them.
//
//  The blocks of characters also appear momentarily switching from the
//  image to a text screen -- for example, when I hit 'T'.
//
//  - Sometimes Fractint seems to hang.  If I hit Esc a couple of times, I
//  can get to a menu and a sensible state, but if I'm in a VESA mode, of
//  course I've lost my fractal.  I suspect Fractint is trying to do
//  something, but I'm not seeing what it's doing due to some flaw in
//  dosemu.
//
//  - Sometimes, in VESA mode, solid-guessing doesn't fill in the solids on
//  some lines.  I'll see a fractal with big black cracks across it, with
//  dots scattered in the cracks.  The cracks go away on later iterations;
//  I mention this because it might be of help with other problems.
//
//  - color-cycling doesn't work.  plasma displays with the default VGA
//  colormap, and thus looks terrible.  This is obviously not fractint's
//  fault -- right?
//
//  - Sometimes, when zooming in (even in 320x200x256), my zoom box gets
//  filled with black.  This makes it hard to zoom.  Also, when TABbing
//  back and forth on some bifurcation fractals, what was previously drawn
//  gets erased -- it's displayed for a brief moment when returning to the
//  picture, then the whole screen becomes black, then the fractal
//  continues drawing from the right edge of what was previously drawn.
//
//  This happens, for example, during the first zoom in basic.key.
//
//  - Drawing an "icons" fractal after a "mandel" fractal at 320x200x256,
//  the top and bottom of the "mandel" fractal (above and below where the
//  "icons" fractal appears) remain on the screen.  The same is true of
//  running "diffusion" or "lsystem", or running "ant" after "plasma", or
//  even "ant" after "ant".  I suspect it's a general problem erasing the
//  screen.
//
//  (In fact, when zooming in on a "mandel" in solid-guessing mode, the old
//  image is progressively erased as the new image is drawn.  I initially
//  thought this was a clever new feature.)
//
//  - When I try the 1280x1024x256 VESA mode, Fractint says it's not
//  supported with my adapter.
//
//  - lsystem doesn't seem to work well at all in the VESA modes.  It looks
//  like fractint first switches to the VESA video mode, then switches back
//  to text-mode to display the L-System thinking message, then fails the
//  same way coming back from TAB or F1 fails.
//
//  OTOH, it works pretty well with the MCGA mode.  *sigh*
//
//  - When saving an image (in MCGA mode), the text message that normally
//  appears in the upper-left-hand corner of the screen when it finishes is
//  only one pixel high, and the rest of that scan line turns to black.
//
//  - Fractint consistently crashed dosemu during the demo:
//  ERROR: unexpected CPU exception 0x06 errorcode: 0x00000000
//  while in vm86 (DOS)
//
//  Program=sigsegv.c, Line=230
//  EIP: 0000:0000008d ESP: 4363:0000f032  VFLAGS(b): 00000
//  00110000 10000110
//  EAX: 00004201 EBX: 000099fe ECX: 000007cc EDX: 00000000
//  VFLAGS(h): 00003086
//  ESI: 00000012 EDI: 0000f52c EBP: 0000f44a DS: 4363 ES: 4363 FS:
//  0000 GS: 0000
//  FLAGS: PF SF IF RF VM  IOPL: 3
//  STACK: 00 00 f8 bf 00 00 00 00 00 00 -> 00 42 91 0c f1 0c 46 32 c2 15
//  OPS  : 01 39 10 00 01 26 01 d2 0a ca -> 26 8e 37 1c 01 d2 0a 41 10 00
//
//  Just after successfully loading new19001.gif.
//
//  (in new19.key.)
//
//  To reproduce: run demo.bat, select option 2, and wait.
//
//  I think this happens every time you try to browse images (with "L").  I
//  seem to remember that this used to crash the computer in real MS-DOS as
//  well.  Running fractint, hitting F3, and typing "L" makes it crash, too
//  (in dosemu, that is).  Sometimes it crashes with different register
//  values.
//
//
//  Anyway, I'm looking forward to looking at all the fractint list
//  formulas and pars with my nifty new toy.  :)
//
//  Kragen
//
//
//
//
//  --------------------------------------------------------------
//  Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
//  Post Message:   [e-mail]
//  Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
//  Administrator:  [e-mail]
//  Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"
//


- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:42:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail] (Kragen)
Subject: RE: (fractdev) Fractint in dosemu

On Thu, 23 Jul 1998, Peter Gavin wrote:
> I suspect the video problems have alot to do with the fact that your running
> it in a window.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think VESA uses direct
> hardware access to display graphics,

I'm pretty sure that it doesn't -- that the VESA drivers give you a
function-call interface, not a bunch of ports and RAM to write to.  But
I don't really know.  At any rate, it's running in a window, so
whatever direct hardware access it's using is emulated anyway.

> which makes it fast, but windows 95
> doesn't like that, so I figure X/Dosemu doesn't either.

I have a cute little game (Nuclear Insanity) which successfully
color-cycles.  I'm pretty sure Nuke does direct hardware access; I'm
contacting the developers to see if they'll show me the asm source for
the color-cycling stuff.

>  In fact, if I
> switch out of fractint while it's in a VESA graphics mode, I can't go back
> and windows tells me it must close the program.  I _can_ use 320x200 or
> 320x240 but only the former works in a window.  All other graphics modes are
> unusable.

800x600 and 1024x768 all work in a window for me.  The only time I've
had dosemu crash is when I do 'L'.

> I suppose part of the problem is caused by fractint trying to
> write straight to the screen, interfering with X in some way.  And dosemu
> looks like it's still in beta, from its version number <g>.

DOSEMU has been in beta for years and years.  Maybe one day it will escape.

Fractint can try to write straight to the screen, but it won't succeed
in a million years...

(btw: I haven't set up the VGA stuff with dosemu, so I *have* to run it
in a window.)

Kragen


- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 12:57:33 -0500
From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractdev) Fractint in dosemu

Peter,

 - In fact, if I switch out of fractint while it's in a VESA graphics mode,
 - I can't go back and windows tells me it must close the program.

This depends very much on your VESA drivers (usually in the BIOS of your
video card) and even the particular mode used.  My Matrox Millennium lets
me switch away and back in 1600x1200 mode (my preferred mode) or 800x600,
but if I use 1024x768 or 640x480, switching back will corrupt the image or,
sometimes, provide no display at all.

 - I _can_ use 320x200 or 320x240 but only the former works in a window.

That's because 320x200 is a standard BIOS-supported video mode, but 320x240
is a "Mode X" display, in which some very clever reprogramming of the VGA
registers allows a lot more flexibility.  Mode X displays allow page
flipping, hardware panning, and displays of 320x or 360x, x200, x240, x400,
and x480.  When I was looking into game programming on the PC we found
information on this.  It's more awkward to work with the screen this way,
due to some of those clever programming tricks, but it's usually worth the
hassle.

Frankly, I'm surprised (pleasantly so) that DOSemu works so well.

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  http://www.icd.com/tsd/ (temporary sanity designs)
                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/ (fractals are my hobby)

- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:03:15 -0500
From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractdev) Fractint in dosemu

Kragen,

 - I'm pretty sure that it doesn't -- that the VESA drivers give you a
 - function-call interface, not a bunch of ports and RAM to write to.

You get function calls to switch memory banks and to set up modes.  You
still write to RAM directly.

 - I'm contacting the developers to see if they'll show me the asm source
 - for the color-cycling stuff.

Palette registers are basically in the same location on all VGA cards; this
isn't a VESA issue.  If you want assembly to set VGA palette registers, I
can post it here.  (This is also useful for fading text.)

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  http://www.icd.com/tsd/ (temporary sanity designs)
                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/ (fractals are my hobby)

- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 14:12:12 -0400
From: "Peter Gavin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractdev) Fractint in dosemu

//  On Thu, 23 Jul 1998, Peter Gavin wrote:
//  > I suspect the video problems have alot to do with the fact
//  that your running
//  > it in a window.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think VESA uses direct
//  > hardware access to display graphics,
//
//  I'm pretty sure that it doesn't -- that the VESA drivers give you a
//  function-call interface, not a bunch of ports and RAM to write to.  But
//  I don't really know.  At any rate, it's running in a window, so
//  whatever direct hardware access it's using is emulated anyway.
//

Well, the vesa drivers could do the direct hardware access themselves, and
you tell them what you want done through a function.  I don't even know if
VESA uses that anyway, though...  Could someone else explain this?


//  > which makes it fast, but windows 95
//  > doesn't like that, so I figure X/Dosemu doesn't either.
//
//  I have a cute little game (Nuclear Insanity) which successfully
//  color-cycles.  I'm pretty sure Nuke does direct hardware access; I'm
//  contacting the developers to see if they'll show me the asm source for
//  the color-cycling stuff.
//

Does that nuke game do color cycling in a window?  Because if X is running
at 16- or 24-bit color, that could explain why color cycling doesn't work.
Cycling is just done by rotating the palette, of course, but the higher
depth color modes don't use palettes, so there would have to be some kind of
code in dosemu to rotate them manually pixel by pixel, which would really be
a pain.


//  >  In fact, if I
//  > switch out of fractint while it's in a VESA graphics mode, I
//  can't go back
//  > and windows tells me it must close the program.  I _can_ use
//  320x200 or
//  > 320x240 but only the former works in a window.  All other
//  graphics modes are
//  > unusable.
//
//  800x600 and 1024x768 all work in a window for me.  The only time I've
//  had dosemu crash is when I do 'L'.
//

I don't think I was really clear about this, and I suppose you understood
anyways, but... I should have said that in full screen mode, I can use
anything up to 1024x768 (my monitors max res) but if I switch out which in
graphics mode, Fractint dies.  If I'm in 320x200 or 320x240, it doesn't die,
and fractint will _run_ while windowed at 320x200, because windows likes
that mode, since it's extremely simple.  320x240 will show up ok in a
window, but the program halts until I go back to full screen.


//  DOSEMU has been in beta for years and years.  Maybe one day it
//  will escape.
//
//  Fractint can try to write straight to the screen, but it won't succeed
//  in a million years...
//
//  (btw: I haven't set up the VGA stuff with dosemu, so I *have* to run it
//  in a window.)

That's okay, alot of software doesn't ever get out of beta...  Like ICQ!
Kinda wierd, when you think about it.  7 million people are running a beta
software and probably dont even realize it! :)  If it's stable enough for 7
million people it should be out of beta by now, don't you think?



Pete
<[e-mail]>


- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 14:18:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail] (Kragen)
Subject: RE: (fractdev) Fractint in dosemuZ

On Thu, 23 Jul 1998, Damien M. Jones wrote:
> Frankly, I'm surprised (pleasantly so) that DOSemu works so well.

Me too.  My wife and I are going to analyze some data, and the software
she wants to use runs on DOS, so I thought I'd try it.

Kragen


- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 14:19:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail] (Kragen)
Subject: RE: (fractdev) Fractint in dosemu

On Thu, 23 Jul 1998, Damien M. Jones wrote:
>  - I'm contacting the developers to see if they'll show me the asm source
>  - for the color-cycling stuff.
>
> Palette registers are basically in the same location on all VGA cards; this
> isn't a VESA issue.  If you want assembly to set VGA palette registers, I
> can post it here.  (This is also useful for fading text.)

That's what I thought, too.  But Nuclear Insanity color-cycles, and
Fractint doesn't.

Kragen


- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 14:34:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail] (Kragen)
Subject: RE: (fractdev) Fractint in dosemu

On Thu, 23 Jul 1998, Peter Gavin wrote:
> //  I have a cute little game (Nuclear Insanity) which successfully
> //  color-cycles.  I'm pretty sure Nuke does direct hardware access; I'm
> //  contacting the developers to see if they'll show me the asm source for
> //  the color-cycling stuff.
> //
>
> Does that nuke game do color cycling in a window?

Yes.  I'm running X at 8bpp.

> //  DOSEMU has been in beta for years and years.  Maybe one day it
> //  will escape.
> //
> //  Fractint can try to write straight to the screen, but it won't succeed
> //  in a million years...
> //
> //  (btw: I haven't set up the VGA stuff with dosemu, so I *have* to run it
> //  in a window.)
>
> That's okay, alot of software doesn't ever get out of beta...  Like ICQ!

There are a couple of Linux ICQ clients out there that promise to
escape beta someday soon.

> Kinda wierd, when you think about it.  7 million people are running a beta
> software and probably dont even realize it! :)  If it's stable enough for 7
> million people it should be out of beta by now, don't you think?

Nah.

Kragen


- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:36:43 -0500
From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractdev) Fractint in dosemu

Peter,

 - Kinda wierd, when you think about it.  7 million people are running a
 - beta software and probably dont even realize it! :)

Closer to 14 million, actually.

 - If it's stable enough for 7 million people it should be out of beta
 - by now, don't you think?

You must be one of those people who has never had a problem.  I
wholeheartedly agree with the beta status of ICQ (even though in part it
was a marketing position).  ICQ crashes quite frequently, more often than
most of the software I use (more often than Windows, even).  It also
exhibits odd behavior, such as getting confused about who is online and who
is not.  Part of the problem is that ICQ doesn't seem to have a TCP
fallback protocol for when it can't reliably communicate using UDP.  When a
net brown-out occurs, and half the packets go AWOL, ICQ just quits working,
basically, sending duplicate messages, not getting confirmation that
messages were received, etc.

On the whole, though, ICQ performs pretty well.  The ICQ servers have
actually improved over time; they still have odd quirks but for the most
part they work OK.  I'm happy with the package, although I'm definitely NOT
happy AOL ended up buying it.

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  http://www.icd.com/tsd/ (temporary sanity designs)
                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/ (fractals are my hobby)

- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:38:00 -0500
From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractdev) Fractint in dosemu

Kragen,

 - That's what I thought, too.  But Nuclear Insanity color-cycles, and
 - Fractint doesn't.

It's possible that Nuclear Insanity color-cycles by actually altering pixel
data, rather than changing palette registers.  For a 256-color mode this is
pretty trivial, even to set up multiple cycle patterns within a single
palette.

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  http://www.icd.com/tsd/ (temporary sanity designs)
                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/ (fractals are my hobby)

- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 14:48:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail] (Kragen)
Subject: RE: (fractdev) Fractint in dosemu

On Thu, 23 Jul 1998, Damien M. Jones wrote:
> Kragen,
>
>  - That's what I thought, too.  But Nuclear Insanity color-cycles, and
>  - Fractint doesn't.
>
> It's possible that Nuclear Insanity color-cycles by actually altering pixel
> data,

No, because the background of my screen (and everything else) changes
color while my mouse is in the Nuclear Insanity window.

> rather than changing palette registers.  For a 256-color mode this is
> pretty trivial, even to set up multiple cycle patterns within a single
> palette.

It might be feasible, but it wouldn't be trivial.

Kragen


- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 15:05:02 -0400
From: "Peter Gavin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractdev) Fractint in dosemu

//  On the whole, though, ICQ performs pretty well.  The ICQ servers have
//  actually improved over time; they still have odd quirks but for the most
//  part they work OK.  I'm happy with the package, although I'm
//  definitely NOT
//  happy AOL ended up buying it.

Amen to that!  Really, though, they already have Instant Messanger, why ICQ,
too?  I don't even know how Mirabilis (err... AOL, now) makes any money from
it, they don't sell advertising (much), and ICQ is free.


Pete
<[e-mail]>



- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 21:17:12 +0200
From: "Dean-Christian Strik" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) Fractint in dosemu

:Mode X displays allow page
:flipping, hardware panning, and displays of 320x or 360x, x200, x240, x400,
:and x480.  When I was looking into game programming on the PC we found
:information on this.  It's more awkward to work with the screen this way,
:due to some of those clever programming tricks, but it's usually worth the
:hassle.


It can have funny results. Today I assembled a friend's computer with an AMD
K6-233 and a Stealth-II 4MB PCI card (nice card BTW - overclocking it by 20%
gave us an average framerate of about 100 in Unreal under Win98 at
640x480x2^16). When we ran Quake I under windows 98 to test the speed of the
video card using any of the Mode X display resolutions, the framerate dropped
to about 7 - for about 56 at 1024x768 (during this test I did no
overclocking).

But this maybe an exception (I hope)...

Christian




- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 22:03:27 +0200
From: "Dean-Christian Strik" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) Fractint in dosemu

: - If it's stable enough for 7 million people it should be out of beta
: - by now, don't you think?
:
:You must be one of those people who has never had a problem.  I
:wholeheartedly agree with the beta status of ICQ (even though in part it
:was a marketing position).  ICQ crashes quite frequently, more often than
:most of the software I use (more often than Windows, even).  It also
:exhibits odd behavior, such as getting confused about who is online and who
:is not.  Part of the problem is that ICQ doesn't seem to have a TCP
:fallback protocol for when it can't reliably communicate using UDP.  When a
:net brown-out occurs, and half the packets go AWOL, ICQ just quits working,
:basically, sending duplicate messages, not getting confirmation that
:messages were received, etc.


I experience some errors, too. Especially concerning messages I never
received. I still have four of you ICQing fractinters in the 'Waiting
authorization from' area of my ICQ window. Unless they/you (Gedeon Peteri,
John Wilson, John Misterio and Pete Gavin) haven't used ICQ for about two
weeks, I never got an acception confirmation (or denial). I sorted this out
with a friend who also remained in the Auth. area - he sure has sent me one.
There is no point in again giving permission (or not) (if possible anyway).
No, I agree that ICQ can stay Beta for a while...

:On the whole, though, ICQ performs pretty well.  The ICQ servers have
:actually improved over time; they still have odd quirks but for the most
:part they work OK.  I'm happy with the package, although I'm definitely NOT
:happy AOL ended up buying it.


Ah.. Damien - didn't know you were on ICQ. Can I have your # for my list
(http://come.to/fractinticq - sorry 'bout the popup windows - i'll have these
removed soon). And what about Mr. Sitarek? :-)

Christian





- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 22:30:22 +0200
From: "Dean-Christian Strik" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) Fractint in dosemu

:Ah.. Damien - didn't know you were on ICQ. Can I have your # for my list
:(http://come.to/fractinticq - sorry 'bout the popup windows - i'll have these
:removed soon). And what about Mr. Sitarek? :-)


Typo, sorry - of course mean Mr. Sitaker.


Christian




- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:37:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail] (Kragen)
Subject: Re: (fractdev) Fractint in dosemu

On Thu, 23 Jul 1998, Dean-Christian Strik wrote:
> :Ah.. Damien - didn't know you were on ICQ. Can I have your # for my list
> :(http://come.to/fractinticq - sorry 'bout the popup windows - i'll have these
> :removed soon). And what about Mr. Sitarek? :-)
>
> Typo, sorry - of course mean Mr. Sitaker.

I'll install Licq or something one of these days.  Then I'll get an ICQ
number.

Kragen


- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 15:59:23 -0500
From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) Fractint in dosemu

Christian,

 - Ah.. Damien - didn't know you were on ICQ. Can I have your # for my
 - list

Well, actually, I'd prefer the number not be given out.  Despite numerous
opportunities to post my number for all to see, I have not done so.  I use
ICQ at work--and work is a small ISP, so I'm *always* online.  It is easy
enough to explain this to a few friends who understand that work means
work, but to explain it to fifty new people clamoring to add me to their
contact list...?  (Yes, the privacy settings I use are pretty strict.)
Thank you, but I will pass. :-)  Anyone who wishes to find me through ICQ
can search on my e-mail address; it's listed.  But I don't generally
broadcast the fact that I use ICQ precisely because I'd prefer most people
don't know.  So I guess I just blew it, announcing it here, huh? :-)

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  http://www.icd.com/tsd/ (temporary sanity designs)
                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/ (fractals are my hobby)

- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 18:04:24 -0500
From: "Paul N. Lee" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) Fractint in dosemu

Damien M. Jones wrote:
>
> Anyone who wishes to find me through ICQ can search on
> my e-mail address; it's listed.

  819593   Damien           ??
 1945253   damien           [e-mail]
 3620685   ?                [e-mail]
 5985594   Damo             [e-mail]
11634164   Rooboy           [e-mail]
12910213   Thunder In Eye   [e-mail]
14525812   bones            [e-mail]

But nothing for  <[e-mail]>  or  <[e-mail]>

P.N.L.
- -------------------------------------------------
     Why do most folks hate cynics so much?
       Because we're almost always right.
- -------------------------------------------------
http://www.fractalus.com/cgi-bin/theway?ring=fractals&id=43&go

- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 19:01:37 -0500
From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) Fractint in dosemu

Paul,

 - But nothing for  <[e-mail]>  or  <[e-mail]>

Oops, you're right, I removed my e-mail address from my ICQ info.  Heh, I
must've been a bit paranoid at the time.

My last name is in there, though.

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  http://www.icd.com/tsd/ (temporary sanity designs)
                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/ (fractals are my hobby)

- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

End of fractdev-digest V1 #11
*****************************