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fractdev-digest        Thursday, July 23 1998        Volume 01 : Number 010




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 22:29:59 -0600
From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractdev) Visual C/C++ 5

Peter asked:

> Wait, can you explain this to me?  The console mode programs made by Vis C++ 5
> are not DOS programs at all, as far as I know.  I don't think you can run a
> 32-bit console mode program under DOS, even with a 32-bit DOS extender.
>First off, DOS'll spit out the typical 'This program must be run under
> Windows' BS.

Right, but if you are running Win95 and create a DOS window (fullscreen or
not), a console application runs just like a DOS program, although internally it
accesses memory using Win95. Such programs would not run under "naked"
DOS. I run Fractint under Win95 anyway, as I expect many people do.

To run under true DOS, a DOS extender woul;d be needed such as that in
djgpp.

Tim




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Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 22:29:59 -0600
From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [none]

I'm taking off for a week, will be back June 23. This list doesn't have many
administration issues, just be aware that if anything crops up I won't be dealing
with it until I'm back.

It will help if list members unsubscribe themselves if their account is coming to
an end.

Carry on. I will read all the messages here when I get back (I can't promise the
same for the fractint list <g!>)

I am determined to pursue a 32 bit port of Fractint. We should also get the
current developer's fractint out the door as v. 20 soon after I get back.

Tim



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Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 04:56:46 -0400
From: "Peter Gavin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractdev) Visual C/C++ 5

Wow, I didn't realize console programs could do that!  But, umm, did you =
say you linked in the assembly?  It's 16bit, though, right?  So how'd =
that work?  (It'd be really cool if you would email me with your method =
of compiling it for win32, because that way I wouldnt have to reinvent =
the wheel, and I don't really have the time to figure that crud out.  My =
experience with assembly is very limited, unfortunately... <g> ) =20

Pete
<[e-mail]>

//  -----Original Message-----
//  From: [e-mail]
//  [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Tim Wegner
//  Sent: Friday, June 12, 1998 12:30 AM
//  To: [e-mail]
//  Subject: RE: (fractdev) Visual C/C++ 5
// =20
// =20
//  Peter asked:
// =20
//  > Wait, can you explain this to me?  The console mode programs=20
//  made by Vis C++ 5
//  > are not DOS programs at all, as far as I know.  I don't think=20
//  you can run a=20
//  > 32-bit console mode program under DOS, even with a 32-bit DOS=20
//  extender. =20
//  >First off, DOS'll spit out the typical 'This program must be run =
under
//  > Windows' BS.
// =20
//  Right, but if you are running Win95 and create a DOS window=20
//  (fullscreen or=20
//  not), a console application runs just like a DOS program,=20
//  although internally it=20
//  accesses memory using Win95. Such programs would not run under =
"naked"=20
//  DOS. I run Fractint under Win95 anyway, as I expect many people do.
// =20
//  To run under true DOS, a DOS extender woul;d be needed such as that =
in=20
//  djgpp.
// =20
//  Tim
// =20
// =20
// =20
// =20
//  --------------------------------------------------------------
//  Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
//  Post Message:   [e-mail]
//  Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
//  Administrator:  [e-mail]
//  Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"
// =20


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 08:07:19 -0600
From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractdev) Visual C/C++ 5

> Wow, I didn't realize console programs could do that!  But, umm, did you say you linked in the assembly?
> It's 16bit, though, right?  So how'd that work?

No, the assembly MUST be 32 bit. The easiest way to see what the assemly
looks like is to create assembler listings of simple routines. This are
compilable in MASM.

> (It'd be really cool if you would email me with your method of compiling it for
>win32, because that way I wouldnt have to reinvent the wheel, and I don't
>really have the time to figure that crud out.  My experience with assembly is
>very limited, unfortunately... <g> )

I'd be happy to resume the conversation when I get back - out the door in a few
minutes!

Tim


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Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 11:48:20 -0500
From: "Paul N. Lee" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) Visual C/C++ 5

Tim Wegner wrote:
>
> I am sure lots of folks know this stuff, but remember,
> I'm a beginner <grin!>
>
> I've been playing with Microsoft Visual C/C++ 5.0 ..........
>

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subscription request form is available at http://www.vcdj.com

P.N.L.
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Jun 98 10:47:42 -0700
From: Tim Gilman <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractdev) performance diffs between X & DOS

Can I get some performance marks from the XFract world?  I'm interested
in the basic 640x480x256 mandelbrot (default).  Using the XFract base on
my mac (PowerPC 604e @ 180MHz), and it takes a little over a minute to
generate this fractal.  What's the rest of the world look like?

- -= Tim Gilman
[e-mail]
[e-mail]

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 14:58:09 -0600
From: Phil McRevis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) performance diffs between X & DOS

In article <[e-mail]>,
    Tim Gilman <[e-mail]>  writes:
> Can I get some performance marks from the XFract world?  I'm interested
> in the basic 640x480x256 mandelbrot (default).  Using the XFract base on
> my mac (PowerPC 604e @ 180MHz), and it takes a little over a minute to
> generate this fractal.  What's the rest of the world look like?

The most significant performance differences I've seen between
xfractint and fractint are for formula type fractals.
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 11:03:56 +0200
From: "Frederik Slijkerman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) performance diffs between X & DOS

> Can I get some performance marks from the XFract world?  I'm interested
> in the basic 640x480x256 mandelbrot (default).  Using the XFract base on
> my mac (PowerPC 604e @ 180MHz), and it takes a little over a minute to
> generate this fractal.  What's the rest of the world look like?

The DOS world looks much better. :)

With the following parameters: type=mandel periodicity=0 symmetry=none
maxiter=1000 passes=1 float=yes  I was able to generate a 640x480 image
on my Pentium 166MMX in 14.94 seconds. With the following formula

Mandelbrot{
  z = 0:
  z = sqr(z) + pixel
  |z| < 4
}

the same image took 1 minute 19.42 seconds. It seems to me a PowerPC could
do much better with a little bit of assembler...

Regards,
Frederik.


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 14:09:50 +0100
From: "Christian Strik" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) performance diffs between X & DOS

My compatriot Frederik wrote:

>
>With the following parameters: type=mandel periodicity=0 symmetry=none
>maxiter=1000 passes=1 float=yes  I was able to generate a 640x480 image
>on my Pentium 166MMX in 14.94 seconds. With the following formula
>
>Mandelbrot{
>  z = 0:
>  z = sqr(z) + pixel
>  |z| < 4
>}
>

Maxiter=1000? Isn't the default setting 150?

Christian




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Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 09:29:38 -0500
From: DeRobertis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) performance diffs between X & DOS

>Can I get some performance marks from the XFract world?  I'm interested
>in the basic 640x480x256 mandelbrot (default).  Using the XFract base on
>my mac (PowerPC 604e @ 180MHz), and it takes a little over a minute to
>generate this fractal.  What's the rest of the world look like?

Hmmm...MacFractInt is up and running? Can I see the sources?

I might be able to help with some assembly code, or get it to run under
MPW's MrC (which optimizes better than the CodeWarrior compiler)


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Date: Thu, 18 Jun 98 10:27:45 -0700
From: Tim Gilman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) performance diffs between X & DOS

>Hmmm...MacFractInt is up and running? Can I see the sources?
>
>I might be able to help with some assembly code, or get it to run under
>MPW's MrC (which optimizes better than the CodeWarrior compiler)

Yeah, but its not quite ready for public consumption, or even developer
consumption.  Let me clean it up a lot and then I'll spread it around.

I've done some testing, and 40 of those "little over a minute" seconds
comes from drawing a pixel-at-a-time to a window.  XFract already has an
'update after each scan-line' strategy to get around this;  anyone have
other strategies that might shave off them seconds?

- -= Tim Gilman
[e-mail]
[e-mail]

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Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 14:14:55 -0400
From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) performance diffs between X & DOS

Tim Gilman,

 - I've done some testing, and 40 of those "little over a minute" seconds
 - comes from drawing a pixel-at-a-time to a window.  XFract already has an
 - 'update after each scan-line' strategy to get around this;  anyone have
 - other strategies that might shave off them seconds?

Here's a technique I use in JuliaSaver.  I keep track of the current
plotting position and the last drawn position.  Five times per second (this
is run on a Windows timer) I check to see how much has been drawn, redraw
only the portion that has changed, and update the "last-drawn" position.

By putting the screen update on a regular timer, the program will seem more
responsive than if it's line-by-line, since the amount of time a single
line takes varies quite a bit.  When plotting is slow, you will see
incremental plotting, perhaps even point-by-point for really slow fractals.
 But when plotting is fast, you don't waste time at every pixel by plotting
the point.  The five-redraws-per-second value was arbitrary, but it seems
to work out pretty well.  Then again, JuliaSaver isn't meant to be terribly
interactive.

To implement this in Windows I used multi-threading, putting the generator
on a background, non-GUI thread, and leaving the GUI thread free to respond
to messages (like timer and redraw messages).  I don't know how you'd go
about this under MacOS.

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  http://www.icd.com/tsd/ (temporary sanity designs)
                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/ (fractals are my hobby)

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Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 01:45:00 -0500
From: DeRobertis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) performance diffs between X & DOS

>>Hmmm...MacFractInt is up and running? Can I see the sources?
>>
>>I might be able to help with some assembly code, or get it to run under
>>MPW's MrC (which optimizes better than the CodeWarrior compiler)
>
>Yeah, but its not quite ready for public consumption, or even developer
>consumption.  Let me clean it up a lot and then I'll spread it around.
>
>I've done some testing, and 40 of those "little over a minute" seconds
>comes from drawing a pixel-at-a-time to a window.  XFract already has an
>'update after each scan-line' strategy to get around this;  anyone have
>other strategies that might shave off them seconds?


Draw it pixel-by-pixel offscreen, in a 8-byte aligned buffer. Then perform
one move using a FP register to bring it onscreen.

Basicly, this results in one bus cycle per 8 bytes of pixel data (if you
can manage to keep that 8 bytes in the on-chip data cache)

You could also use a larger size (perhaps 32 bytes), but by using a one bus
cycle one, you might be able to avoid some stalls (that is the write to RAM
occurs during pixel calculation).

But whatever you do, don't even get near "SetCPixel."


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Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 22:01:38 -0400
From: "Peter Gavin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractdev) Visual C/C++ 5

About a month ago you said you got fractint to compile with visual C++...  I
was wondering if you could tell me how you did it.  Does it run faster when
compiled for 32 bit?

Thanks in advance,

Pete
<[e-mail]>



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Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 22:08:22 -0400
From: "Peter Gavin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractdev) Visual C/C++ 5

Sorry, that last message was meant for Tim... <g>

Pete
<[e-mail]>

//  -----Original Message-----
//  From: [e-mail]
//  [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Peter Gavin
//  Sent: Monday, July 13, 1998 10:02 PM
//  To: [e-mail]
//  Subject: RE: (fractdev) Visual C/C++ 5
//
//
//  About a month ago you said you got fractint to compile with
//  visual C++...  I
//  was wondering if you could tell me how you did it.  Does it run
//  faster when
//  compiled for 32 bit?
//
//  Thanks in advance,
//
//  Pete
//  <[e-mail]>
//
//
//
//  --------------------------------------------------------------
//  Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
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//

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Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 18:00:39 -0600
From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractdev) Visual C/C++ 5

Pete asked:

> About a month ago you said you got fractint to compile with visual C++...  I
> was wondering if you could tell me how you did it.  Does it run faster when
> compiled for 32 bit?

This wasn't me. Fractint can't be compiled under Visual C/C++ without massive
changes. There is someone trying it, I haven't heard lately how it's going. I will
be making a Visual C/C++ version at my own glacial speed :-).

Tim



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Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 20:46:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail] (Kragen)
Subject: (fractdev) new L-system computation method

I've come up with a better way of computing L-system strings.  On my
5x86-133, I can compute the order-21 string for the 'Dragon' L-system
from fractint.l in 17 seconds.  The string is 25 megabytes.

The biggest advantage of this, I think, is that the beginning of the
string is available for plotting almost instantly -- you don't have to
wait for the calculation to complete.

I haven't tried actually plotting the output from it.

The source (in convenient standalone program form -- and I think it
should run OK on platforms other than Linux) is at
<URL:http://www.pobox.com/~kragen/sw/fastlsys.c>.

Does anyone think this would be nice to have in Fractint 20?

I'm also going to try getting it into LPARSER.

Kragen


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Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 17:32:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail] (Kragen)
Subject: (fractdev) ping?

Well, I sent out a message to this list a few days ago.  No one
responded, and no one even visited the URL I listed.  Is anyone
actually on the list, or were they all bored?

Kragen


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Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 20:16:37 -0600
From: Phil McRevis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) ping?

In article <[e-mail]>,
    [e-mail] (Kragen)  writes:
> Well, I sent out a message to this list a few days ago.  No one
> responded, and no one even visited the URL I listed.  Is anyone
> actually on the list, or were they all bored?

Looks like a good idea to me; I've thougth the same thing about
fractint's L-system handling.  One disadvantage of preorder traversal
is that you must compute the bounding box of the resulting endstring
by an analysis of the rules.  I think this is why breadth first
traversal was done so that the bounding box could be computed easily.
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Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 23:34:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail] (Kragen)
Subject: Re: (fractdev) ping?

On Fri, 17 Jul 1998, Phil McRevis wrote:
> In article <[e-mail]>,
>     [e-mail] (Kragen)  writes:
> > Well, I sent out a message to this list a few days ago.  No one
> > responded, and no one even visited the URL I listed.  Is anyone
> > actually on the list, or were they all bored?
>
> Looks like a good idea to me; I've thougth the same thing about
> fractint's L-system handling.  One disadvantage of preorder traversal
> is that you must compute the bounding box of the resulting endstring
> by an analysis of the rules.  I think this is why breadth first
> traversal was done so that the bounding box could be computed easily.

I've thought a lot about that.  I don't really think it's possible to
compute the bounding box by analysis of the rules, at least, not any
more easily than by just running the L-system.

I'll have to hack it into xfractint and see what the profiling says; it
may be that it's feasible to resize the bounding box on the fly, or to
compute the L-system twice in order to know the bounding box for
plotting the second time.

btw, it runs in almost-constant space; the traversal stack is never
deeper than your order.  So you can generate 25MB of L-system string
while taking up 236K of RAM.

On today's machines, it might actually be faster to recalculate the
string rather than fetching it from memory -- but I'll have to try it
before I assert that's really true.

Kragen


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Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 10:11:48 -0600
From: Phil McRevis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) ping?

In article <[e-mail]>,
    [e-mail] (Kragen)  writes:
> I've thought a lot about that.  I don't really think it's possible to
> compute the bounding box by analysis of the rules, at least, not any
> more easily than by just running the L-system.

Suppose you have a rule like F => F+F-F-F+F, which looks roughly like
this:


    +----+  => +----+    +----+
                    |     |
                    |     |
                    +----+

So this rule takes a 1x1 unit bounding box and transforms it into a
3x1 unit bounding box.  This means every time you replace an 'F' in
the string you're going to essentially be expanding the bounding box
by a factor of 3 in the orientation of the 'F' you're replacing.  You
can build up appropriate scale factors for every rule in your set and
use induction to show what the final bounding box will be for any
complete expansion to a certain level.
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Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 23:37:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail] (Kragen)
Subject: Re: (fractdev) ping?

On Sat, 18 Jul 1998, Phil McRevis wrote:
> In article <[e-mail]>,
>     [e-mail] (Kragen)  writes:
> > I've thought a lot about that.  I don't really think it's possible to
> > compute the bounding box by analysis of the rules, at least, not any
> > more easily than by just running the L-system.
>
> Suppose you have a rule like F => F+F-F-F+F, which looks roughly like
> this:
>
>
>     +----+  => +----+    +----+
>                     |     |
>                     |     |
>                     +----+
>
> So this rule takes a 1x1 unit bounding box and transforms it into a
> 3x1 unit bounding box.  This means every time you replace an 'F' in
> the string you're going to essentially be expanding the bounding box
> by a factor of 3 in the orientation of the 'F' you're replacing.

It seems to me that knowing where every 'F' you're replacing is, and
what its orientation and scale is, is as difficult as running the
L-system.  Maybe I haven't understood correctly?

> You
> can build up appropriate scale factors for every rule in your set and
> use induction to show what the final bounding box will be for any
> complete expansion to a certain level.

As long as you know where each of those rules gets applied, no?

Please! prove me wrong! A simple and quick way to go from a general
(or, heck, even fairly restricted) L-system to a bounding box for order
N would be a godsend.

Kragen


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Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 01:20:00 -0400
From: "Peter Gavin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractdev) The PAR & FRM repository

Thanks to anyone who sent comments referring me to where I can get their
PAR/FRM files; however, it would be easiest for me if you could email a
direct link to the file if it is on the WWW or available by FTP (as in
http://www.fractalus.com/); or for you email the file(s) to me.  If I have
to go all over the internet searching for the files, even if it just
involves going to a web site and clicking a link, it still means I have to
wait for the site to load.  Once or twice isn't so bad, but several times
is.

Thanks!

Peter Gavin
<[e-mail]>

// End transmission


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Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 01:28:19 -0400
From: "Peter Gavin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractdev) The PAR & FRM repository

Sorry about that last (irrelevant) post, but I accidentally clicked
"Fractdev" in mail address book rather than "Fractint". <g>



Pete
<[e-mail]>


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Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 03:15:06 -0400
From: "Peter Gavin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractdev) RE: (fractint) Ultra Fractal 2.0 beta 5

//  Ah.. seems the fractint developers have something to catch up with... :)
//
//  Christian
//
//  :* MDI (multiple documents) and multi-threading
//  :* Multiple layers, with all Photoshop merge modes and
//  :  alpha channel merging
.
.
.
[advertisement spam snipped]

I'll be impressed when this thing does deep zooms.  Then you can say
FractInt has catching up to do. ;)


BTW, if someone is planning on/has begun developing a Win32 version of
FractInt, I've been working on an arbitrary precision class (after debating
the pros and cons of FFTs and NTTs for some time) and if you are interested,
I would be willing to share it with you after I've got enough completed on
it.  I plan on sticking it into am MFC extension DLL.  Eventually I'll have
some inline assembly (once I think I'm good enough at it) but just for now
it'll be straight C++.  I hope to be able to get alot done within the next
month or so, but FFTs/NTTs are fairly new to me, and I've just recently got
the whole thing straightened out in my head.

Oh, does anyone know where I can find a freely available assembler that
creates Visual C++ compatible .obj files?  The only ones I've found create
a.out files, and all the converters I've seen only are for changing .objs to
a.outs, unfortunately.  (Besides, converters aren't known for being
reliable...)  I'd appreciate a few pointers :)  I don't really feel like
going to the store and buying Turbo/Macro Assembler, since I'm not exactly
rich <g> (I'm leaving for college in the fall and I gotta save at least a
couple cents just in case... :)  )

Thanks!

Pete
<[e-mail]>



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Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 10:18:53 -0500
From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) RE: (fractint) Ultra Fractal 2.0 beta 5

Peter,

 - Oh, does anyone know where I can find a freely available assembler that
 - creates Visual C++ compatible .obj files?

Someone posted on comp.lang.asm.x86 not too long ago that you can download
MASM 6.11d as part of a driver kit or something, for free, legitimately,
from Microsoft's web site.  I don't have the URL handy, but if you search
Deja News (www.dejanews.com) for it you should find it.

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  http://www.icd.com/tsd/ (temporary sanity designs)
                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/ (fractals are my hobby)

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Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 11:41:28 -0400
From: "Peter Gavin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractdev) RE: (fractint) Ultra Fractal 2.0 beta 5

Cool, thanks.

Pete
<[e-mail]>

//  -----Original Message-----
//  From: [e-mail]
//  [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Damien M. Jones
//  Sent: Thursday, July 23, 1998 11:19 AM
//  To: [e-mail]
//  Subject: Re: (fractdev) RE: (fractint) Ultra Fractal 2.0 beta 5
//
//
//  Peter,
//
//   - Oh, does anyone know where I can find a freely available
//  assembler that
//   - creates Visual C++ compatible .obj files?
//
//  Someone posted on comp.lang.asm.x86 not too long ago that you
//  can download
//  MASM 6.11d as part of a driver kit or something, for free, legitimately,
//  from Microsoft's web site.  I don't have the URL handy, but if
//  you search
//  Deja News (www.dejanews.com) for it you should find it.
//
//  Damien M. Jones   \\
//  [e-mail]  \\  http://www.icd.com/tsd/ (temporary
//  sanity designs)
//                      \\  http://www.fractalus.com/ (fractals are
//  my hobby)
//
//  --------------------------------------------------------------
//  Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
//  Post Message:   [e-mail]
//  Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
//  Administrator:  [e-mail]
//  Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"
//


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Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 12:03:14 -0400
From: "Peter Gavin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractdev) RE: (fractint) Ultra Fractal 2.0 beta 5

Great!  You can get MASM 6.0 as part of the Win98 DDK at
http://www.microsoft.com/hwdev/ddk/ddk98.htm
Its 19 megs but that includes some docs and stuff.  You don't _need_ win98,
just win95 or NT4, but it does require Visual C++ 4 or better.



Pete
<[e-mail]>

//  -----Original Message-----
//  From: [e-mail]
//  [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Damien M. Jones
//  Sent: Thursday, July 23, 1998 11:19 AM
//  To: [e-mail]
//  Subject: Re: (fractdev) RE: (fractint) Ultra Fractal 2.0 beta 5
//
//
//  Peter,
//
//   - Oh, does anyone know where I can find a freely available
//  assembler that
//   - creates Visual C++ compatible .obj files?
//
//  Someone posted on comp.lang.asm.x86 not too long ago that you
//  can download
//  MASM 6.11d as part of a driver kit or something, for free, legitimately,
//  from Microsoft's web site.  I don't have the URL handy, but if
//  you search
//  Deja News (www.dejanews.com) for it you should find it.
//
//  Damien M. Jones   \\
//  [e-mail]  \\  http://www.icd.com/tsd/ (temporary
//  sanity designs)
//                      \\  http://www.fractalus.com/ (fractals are
//  my hobby)
//
//  --------------------------------------------------------------
//  Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
//  Post Message:   [e-mail]
//  Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
//  Administrator:  [e-mail]
//  Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"
//


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 11:40:45 -0500
From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractdev) RE: (fractint) Ultra Fractal 2.0 beta 5

Peter,

 - Great!  You can get MASM 6.0 as part of the Win98 DDK

Yep.  It's gems like that I read the newsgroup for.  Most of it is pretty
lame, kids looking for people to help them with homework or something, but
once in a while there's something really good.

BTW, make sure you pick up the latest copy of Agner Fog's Pentium
optimization guide.  Even if you don't use it, it contains a lot of
interesting material about how things work inside the Pentium and Pentium-II.

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  http://www.icd.com/tsd/ (temporary sanity designs)
                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/ (fractals are my hobby)

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End of fractdev-digest V1 #10
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