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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 19:44:57 +0200
From: Johan Dada Vis <quiet@village.uunet.be>
Subject: (exotica) Re: KPM
Paul and others, i don't know what happened, but i was wrong
when i told that i had these 2 KPM LPs:
Alan Hawkshaw Soul Organ Showcase LP, KPM 1027, UK
Alan Hawkshaw The Big Beat LP, KPM 1044, UK
they're on my want list, but not in my collection alas.
bloop, J.
At 9:15 +0000 2001/03/24, Paul Hodge wrote:
>Hi Johan
>
>Wow - how we could all be wiser in hindsight!
>
>Could you tell me the track listing for these LPs:
>
>Alan Hawkshaw Soul Organ Showcase LP, KPM 1027, UK
>Alan Hawkshaw The Big Beat LP, KPM 1044, UK
>
>...as I'm looking around for them (I guess Resolution records will be the
>best place)
>and want to know how many tracks they have in common with the KPM
>compilation LPs
>eg Blow Up Exclusive Blend Vol. 1
>
>Many thanks
>
>Paul
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Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 12:56:41 -0500
From: wlt4@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: RE: (exotica) Mr. Warhol
> And I just think its great the way most of Andy Warhol's work >wasn't created by him. The whole idea of mass production and >the 'Factory' is so late 20th century.
Or very 16th century. Renaissance workshops weren't engaged in mass production but otherwise the system was practically the same (giving generations of art historians and museum curators careers sorting it out).
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Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 14:02:20 -0500
From: alan zweig <azed@pathcom.com>
Subject: Re: (exotica) paul mauriat
At 12:10 PM 3/26/01 +0100, G.R.Reader@bton.ac.uk wrote:
>
>I have a few of his LP's and yes there is always something good on them.
> But I was in Mr Bongo on Friday and they had a couple of paul Mauriat
LP's for
>sixty UKPounds each. I double checked. Thats what about 90 US Dollars at
>the moment.
>I haven't heard anything by him even remotely 60 quid good.
What have you heard that is 60 quid good? I can't think of anything I've
ever heard that was that good (though the Barbarella soundtrack comes close).
I'm amazed to hear of Paul Mauriat records that expensive. It makes me
think perhaps there's something of his I haven't heard, something even more
cool than his (famous) version of "You keep me hanging on". I guess if he
made a record where every cut was all sitared-up like that cut, it might
rise to almost that level. But geez. Nothing on a major label should be
that expensive.
AZ
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 14:15:25 -0500
From: alan zweig <azed@pathcom.com>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Mr. Warhol
At 02:32 PM 3/26/01 +0200, Moritz R wrote:
>If you want to learn how Warhol really came up with his pop art concept,
read his own words in his book (I forgot the title, was it "Pop" or "Pop
Art"?), where he describes how he and a friend went to LA in car and
started to see trivial objects along the road, like street signs etc., as
"art",
When it comes to this kind of art, there really is no better description
for my taste than the horrible old cliche "I know what I like".
If anyone remembers my friend "Herb", I remember once telling him how much
I love certain album covers and him saying "Well a lot of them are good
examples of DESIGN but I wouldn't compare them to Picasso..."
I wouldn't compare them to Picasso either and I have no doubt that Picasso
was more of an artistic genius than for instance David Stone Martin.
But this is one area where I don't care about such things. Art, craft,
design. I have LOTS of friends who are "real" artists. (Or at least I
have had.) And frankly there's no other area I can think of where there's
such a huge gap between what they THINK they're doing and what I see when I
look at their stuff.
Then again, visual art does not usually communicate something about life to
me. Not the way films or music can.
I guess I don't know how to look at visual art. So be it.
I have framed album covers on the wall, beside blown up photos of my
grandparents, beside framed Rothko and Man Ray posters, beside movie posters.
The idea of pop art is a pretty obvious one for me but if indeed Warhol was
the one who brought this idea to the world (as opposed to say Lichtenstein)
then he deserves a lot of credit.
I know one thing. My former artist friends worshipped Andy. And none of
them were even remotely pop artists.
AZ
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 22:07:18 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Magnus Sandberg" <m.sandberg@telia.com>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Alan, speak out about Guy Maddin!
> >Are Maddin's films anything similar to Cronenbergs?
>
> No. NO one makes films like Maddin. The only thing that vaguely
reminds me
> of Guy's films are stuff by the Brothers Quay, if you've ever heard of
> them.
Sure, I saw "Institute benjamenta" on a film festival some years ago,
adored it and bought it on DVD a half year ago. Watched it again and
got depressed. It just collided with my own life and my own fear of
losing my attraction for women. You know in this film woman is a ruler,
and she dies in the end. The men are set free from her institute. I did
not find this disturbing the first time, but this time it got me
paranoic. I actually thought that all women were about to die.
Horrible. You know about my difficulties to experience something beyond
myself...
But it was an amazing imaginary world, and quite haunting. A film for
the senses, just too sad for me. Well, it has some fun moments too.
So if Maddin has such similar themes, I might better stay away.
Magnus
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 21:22:48 +0100
From: edjunkita <edjunkita@wanadoo.nl>
Subject: Re: (exotica) electronic sounds
Magnus Sandberg wrote:
> Answer to Mo (1)
>
> My paranoia is that it feels like we are leaving
> something I consider "essential" to man, nature, into a cyberworld
> without any real values. In my little world digital technology and plastic
> just is not nature ...I like the electronic sounds in the beginning,...it was playful corny and
> fun, ... I liked sampling the way Mark Stewart and a lot of other groups (Der Plan too maybe, I
> never found a record with them)
And you're stilling worrying about not hearing those KPM records?
> did it in the 80s, ...but the sounds (notice: I dont write 'z'ounds) today doesnt make me want to
> slap my knees! There is such tiny bit of humour left.
"I am a komputer
I am always happy
I am programmed,
programmed on fortune
I have no problems,
I love bananas
I am the komputer,
who's just happy
I don't want to be a human being,
I am always happy
I also have bananas
in my fortune-programm
I'm the komputer,
I'm the fortune-programm
I can do anything
in my programm-world
I can travel too
in my programm
I pick bananas
at my programm-beach
I am the komputer
I am always happy
I am programmed,
programmed on fortune
My creator was a man
and long since he's dead
I keep on living
and I'm always happy
That would be something for you
humans, huh? but you never get it!"
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 13:03:20 -0800 (PST)
From: tikiman <taboorecords@yahoo.com>
Subject: (exotica) The Naked & the Dead
- --- alan zweig <azed@pathcom.com> wrote:
> If the artists can't appear on the Grammies wearing
> next to nothing, it's not going to take off.
> Sometimes there are little temprorary trends.
> Lounge was one of them. It's over. Some of us came
>here via the lounge trend but that's not why we
stayed.
> Forget about the lounge revival.
say it isn't so, Alan! guess we'll have to abandon
plans for our 2nd release, "South of the Boudoir"...
unless we can find those misplaced penis gourds we
used to perform in. but seriously folks, it's not
about irony, nostalgia, or campiness. for us, it's
about love of genre and revival of a music that's
evocative and complex... and bringing it forth in a
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Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 00:06:36 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Magnus Sandberg" <m.sandberg@telia.com>
Subject: Re: (exotica) electronic sounds
citerar edjunkita <edjunkita@wanadoo.nl>:
>
> That would be something for you
> humans, huh? but you never get it!"
You make everything sound so simple.
Magnus
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Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 14:17:16 -0800
From: bigshot <bigshot@spumco.com>
Subject: (exotica) Classical "so what"
exotica-digest wrote:
>Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 21:56:31 -0500
>From: "Risser Family" <risser@cinci.rr.com>
>Subject: Re: (exotica) Classical Snobbery
>
>Sorry. I think Haydn and Vivaldi are really boring.
Would you like some recommendations?
I haven't looked into Vivaldi much (except for the obvious stuff
like the Seasons and L'Estro Armonico). But I can recommend some
great Haydn. These are bargain priced CDs that are really good.
Haydn: London Symphonies Vols 1 & 2 Phillips 2fers
Colin Davis / Concertgebow
String Quartets Op 76 Naxos
Kodaly Quartet
Any of the Symphonies in Antal Dorati's cycle are good too.
>Mozart was nice and Beethoven was great.
That is a HUGE chunk of great music there! Whole books have
been written about "nice" and "great".
>Classical music is just like most other pop music styles:
>some people are fashionable and some aren't, with a few one
>hit wonders and the true greats rising to the top.
Most of the bad stuff has already been swept away with the
passage of time. There isn't much classical music that is
completely valueless.
The thing most novices to classical music don't understand is
the importance of the conductor. You can hear the same piece
by two different conductors and it will be like night and day.
If you hear Vivaldi and Haydn done by a really good conductor,
you may do a complete turnaround.
>I listen to all music and judge it based on whether I like it
>or not, whichis the only criteria that's important to me.
You won't like it if you don't understand it. You won't
understand classical music if you don't think about it and
do some research. It's worth the work.
See ya
Steve
Stephen Worth
bigshot@spumco.com
The Web: http://www.spumco.com
Usenet: alt.animation.spumco
Palace: cartoonsforum.com:9994
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 14:17:21 -0800
From: bigshot <bigshot@spumco.com>
Subject: (exotica) CD-R
exotica-digest wrote:
>Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 08:45:09 EST
>From: Rcbrooksod@aol.com
>Subject: Re: (exotica) Nacar cd-r's
>
>there does not seem to be a rhyme or reason to any of the cheaper
>CDs. i use some that are great then a batch is bad (rarely).
>Anyone had similar experiences???
I did some research on CD-R a while back and I discovered that what
worked with one burner, gave tons of errors on another. Price made
absolutely no difference. I also found that the brand name didn't
always mean that you were getting the same thing. Maxell CDR's
for instance are made in two different factories. The ones with
the smooth surface on top gave me tons of errors, while the ones
with the grainier surface worked perfect. You just have to experiment,
and when you find something you like buy a lot of it and put it in
the closet.
See ya
Steve
Stephen Worth
bigshot@spumco.com
The Web: http://www.spumco.com
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 14:17:24 -0800
From: bigshot <bigshot@spumco.com>
Subject: (exotica) Revivals and Film Music
exotica-digest wrote:
>Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 21:58:26 -0500
>From: alan zweig <azed@pathcom.com>
>Subject: Re: (exotica) Ironic Enjoyment
>
>I didn't bother with the swing revival because I don't really like swing
>music. In fact, in general I don't like anything that can be described as
>"party music".
The original swing music wasn't always party music. It had a million
different moods. Those Big Bad Hoodoo Nut Zippers just revived the
loudest stuff and performed it sloppily.
>You know, in general I think I always prefer the original stuff to the
>"revival" stuff. That goes for blues. I don't really like any of these
>new acoustic blues guys.
>That goes for country. I hate New Country and even the new traditionalists
>aren't as good as the originals.
I'm with you on all of that.
>I just think it's hard, even impossible, to recreate a genre.
It's possible for a genre of the past to be an influence, but you
don't get any further than being a poor second to stuff by
imitating it.
One thing that really irritated me about the Squirrel Nut Zippers
was the way the band was doing sloppy Hot Fives and Sevens while
the girl singer was aping Billy Holiday. There is a huge time
spread between those influences, and they did nothing to make the
combination sound anything but arbitrary.
>Actually the place where the lounge revival has been most influential - and
>I think successful - is in scoring movies and TV and commercials. I can't
>tell you how many times a movie is elevated for me by a soundtrack that
>reminds me of my favorite soundtracks from the sixties.
Most of the time, it reminds you of your favorite music from way
back when, it's because it's the same music. When my boss did
the Ren & Stimpy show, he didn't have much money for music scores.
Most cartoons of the time used noodly synthesizer music, which
didn't feel right at all to him. The contemporary stock music
libraries weren't much better. They sounded more like the
Rockford Files than a cartoon show.
So he went to a music library house and asked them to pull out
their oldest LP music libraries for him to listen to. He found
the KPM library and licensed it for a minuscule price. When R&S
hit it big, the company that owned the KPM library immediately
jacked the price up to astronomical figures. Now, we can't
afford to use it any more... We have to use other vintage
libraries, and try to keep the licensing companies from finding
out it's good stuff so they can't raise the price of that on
us too!
See ya
Steve
Stephen Worth
bigshot@spumco.com
The Web: http://www.spumco.com
Usenet: alt.animation.spumco
Palace: cartoonsforum.com:9994
Spumco International
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 14:17:26 -0800
From: bigshot <bigshot@spumco.com>
Subject: (exotica) Lawrence Welk
exotica-digest wrote:
>Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 22:29:06 -0500
>From: clayton black <clayton.black@washcoll.edu>
>Subject: Re:(exotica) Paul Mauriat
>
>> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
>this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
>
>- --MS_Mac_OE_3068490546_340114_MIME_Part
>Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
>
>
>Oddly enough, I find Welk and Percy Faith interesting, but not Kostelanetz
>or Mantovani. Welk (or, perhaps more properly, George Cates) has surprised
>me on a number of occasions.
I like all of the Coral label Welk records I've found. Especially
the ones with that 1950's TV hammond organ playing along with the
band. I just got a set of two 45rpm extended play singles that
were sold by Welk at the Aragon Ballroom to fans in the fifties.
I haven't gotten a chance to listen to them yet, but I have high
hopes for them.
See ya
Steve
Stephen Worth
bigshot@spumco.com
The Web: http://www.spumco.com
Usenet: alt.animation.spumco
Palace: cartoonsforum.com:9994
Spumco International
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Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 14:17:18 -0800
From: bigshot <bigshot@spumco.com>
Subject: (exotica) Bach
exotica-digest wrote:
>Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 12:21:02 +0100
>From: Moritz R <moritz@derplan.com>
>Subject: Re: (exotica) Classical Snobbery
>
>bigshot schrieb:
>
>> The one advantage that classical music has is time. Most of the
>> totally worthless dreck has fallen out of circulation in the
>> hundreds of years of changes in repetoire.
>
>this statement is a total contradiction to what you said about Bach.
>Apparently he was down and out for 200 years, considered as the dry
>calculating mathematics musician, and then rediscovered and now we think
>he's the greatest.
Bach was well known in academic circles, but his music wasn't
designed for the modern orchestra. When Stokowski and others did
transcriptions of his work for a large orchestra, the general
public rediscovered Bach. The recent period performance craze
has helped his music even more popular.
With Bach it wasn't so much a matter of the music falling out
of the repetoire because it was bad, as much as it was a matter
of it becoming inconvenient to perform. There are piano pieces
by Alkan that have become obscure because of the fiendish
technical demands it puts on the pianist, and there are
romantic pieces that require such a large orchestra and chorus
that it isn't financially practical to mount a performance of
them. The music may still be good though.
See ya
Steve
Stephen Worth
bigshot@spumco.com
The Web: http://www.spumco.com
Usenet: alt.animation.spumco
Palace: cartoonsforum.com:9994
Spumco International
1021 Grandview, 2nd Floor
Glendale, CA 91201
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 00:47:43 +0200
From: Moritz R <moritz@derplan.com>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Bach
bigshot schrieb:
>
> With Bach it wasn't so much a matter of the music falling out
> of the repetoire because it was bad, as much as it was a matter
> of it becoming inconvenient to perform.
na ja... ok... i still think, and that's what I wanted to remark, that ageing does not automatically tell the good from the bad. (my father always told me this lie: "quality will always succeed in the long run" I don't believe it!) Each age has its own point of view on the past and there's a constant selecting, abondaning and rediscovering. Quality is relative to the expectation a potential recipient has towards art.
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 15:13:25 -0800
From: bigshot <bigshot@spumco.com>
Subject: (exotica) Mo Misquote
exotica-digest wrote:
>Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 14:34:22 +0200
>From: Moritz R <moritz@derplan.com>
>Subject: Re: (exotica) the shaggs
>
>"F. Cobalt" schrieb:
>
>To have visions *is* a talent, to be able to play an
>instrument is only a talent, if there is a vision involved with it.
>Otherwise the player has just developed the skill to be come a machine. I
>think this is basically why Steve's argumentation had to fail.
This is a pretty sophomoric debating technique here. You're
deliberately misquoting me to set up a straw man argument.
Argue what I ACTUALY said.
Great music and great art is a combination of creative
vision and real skills.
Skill without vision is empty.
Vision without skill in execution is a waste of a good idea.
Artists and musicians today may have great ideas, but
they don't have anywhere near the experience and chops
of artists and musicians of the past. They use technology
and "found art" theories as a crutch to avoid developing
real skills. They use talk to justify their laziness
instead of proving their ideas in practice.
Before you start claiming victory and slapping yourself on the
back in congratulation, you might want to acknowledge what I
actually said instead of putting words in my mouth.
See ya
Steve
Stephen Worth
bigshot@spumco.com
The Web: http://www.spumco.com
Usenet: alt.animation.spumco
Palace: cartoonsforum.com:9994
Spumco International
1021 Grandview, 2nd Floor
Glendale, CA 91201
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 01:11:45 +0200
From: Moritz R <moritz@derplan.com>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Revivals and Film Music
bigshot schrieb:
> Most of the time, it reminds you of your favorite music from way
> back when, it's because it's the same music. When my boss did
> the Ren & Stimpy show, he didn't have much money for music scores.
>
Some tunes in Ren & Stimpy are excellent choices and definitely owe to the success of the show. I'd really like to know what some of these pieces are; one mysterious melody I heard a couple of times in different episodes is played by some bells. It appears f.i. in the episode Yak Shaving Day, when the yak comes out of the bath tub at night. Do you happen to know what I'm talking about?
Speaking of film music: It's still a shame how film music and sound engeneering is underestimated. You could clearly see this again when you watched a bit of the academy award show. For me the soundtrack is really half of the truth of a film and the artists who work on it deserve the same attention as the rest.
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 01:22:38 +0200
From: Moritz R <moritz@derplan.com>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Mo Misquote
bigshot schrieb:
>
> Before you start claiming victory and slapping yourself on the
> back in congratulation, you might want to acknowledge what I
> actually said instead of putting words in my mouth.
come on, Steve. This is not about winning. I actually believe, this was, what you quintessentially said. If you see things in a more differentiated light now, the better. I have definitely profitted from the discussion and consider your points as valuable for me, even if I see things a bit different here and there. I'd count that, if anything, as a victory, but hopefully not only for me.
