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exotica-digest         Thursday, March 9 2000         Volume 02 : Number 645



In This Digest:

Re: (exotica) What is Jazz?
(exotica) What is jazz?!
Re: (exotica) Jazz/Improvisation
(exotica) Bozo the Clown
(exotica) [obits] David Berman,Charles Gray
Re: (exotica) Jazz/Improvisation
Re: (exotica) Bozos on this Bus
Re:  (exotica)Oh Yeah
Re: (exotica) If you gotta ask...
RE: (exotica) Jazz/Improvisation
(exotica) What is Jazz? (shut up already!)
Re: (exotica) Jazz/Improvisation
(exotica) anti-jazz
Re: (exotica) anti-jazz
Re: (exotica) Jazz/Improvisation
(exotica) categories
(exotica) Thye Musick Gods
Re: (exotica) categories
(exotica) Re: exotica-digest V2 #644
Re: (exotica) I found definitive TIKI music....(really, I did)
(exotica) reccomendations?
Re: (exotica) Jazz/Improvisation
Re: (exotica) anti-jazz
Re: (exotica) What is Jazz? (shut up already!)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 16:35:09 -0500
From: "m.ace" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) What is Jazz?

So jazz switches on and off throughout a piece depending on the improv
quotient? Wow. I never would have guessed.

This thread is starting to make me feel something akin to the bewildered
amusement of "primitive" cultures when confronted by western man's penchant
for carving the Earth up into parcels of property.

Music is not a tv dinner with neat little dividers to keep everything
separated. It's a big, yummy stew with all sorts of good things all mixed
up. Grab a spoon and enjoy!



m.ace  [e-mail]
OOK   http://www.voicenet.com/~ecam/


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 16:40:33 -0500
From: "Chuck Collazzi" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) What is jazz?!

OK, the professor will now take a stab, having perused (far too many)
well-meant but wayward definitions.........

"Improvisation" is a technique wherein a musician takes an established
melodic fragment or harmonic structure and, using non-melody scale tones
which relate in some way to the original fragment, or chromatic or diatonic
passing tones (in the case of improvising over a chord progression), creates
a spontaneous new melody.

Improvisation exists in all styles of music.  All improvisation is not jazz,
and all jazz is not improvisation.

"Jazz" is a STYLE of music, and suggests a unique combination of performance
practices by which it can be recognized, e.g., tone, choice of instruments
and instrumental combinations, specific alterations to chords (using 9ths,
13ths, -5, -9, augmented, suspended, compound, polytonal, etc.), etc., etc.
which are not typically found in other styles of music.

There is much more to this subject......

Of course, when I turn on the local FM "jazz" station, it sounds to me like
their definition is anything with a funky sax.

Not that it really matters, I'm afraid..............



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 00 13:53:38 -0800
From: "B.J. Major" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Jazz/Improvisation

>>> Jazz means one thing and one thing only to me--improvisation.
>
>This is a college professor's definition, not a jazz lover's.

If lovers of music are going to vary their definition from the standard
ones, there's really not much point to having a definition in the first
place, is there?!  I mean, if anyone can call something they like "jazz"
without it really being jazz,

This morning I looked up "jazz" in several music textbooks.  Yeah, I can
hear the groans already.  But a reference point for this has to be made
somewhere.  Each book says that it MUST include improvisation (defined as
music created by a musician on the spur of the moment without its having
existed in music notation) or it's not jazz.  They also said that
although improvisation existed before U.S. Jazz, (example, in Europe) it
was only done on one instrument at a time (i.e., usually keyboard).  U.S.
Jazz was the first to have as many as 8 people simultaneously to
improvise at once (all things being equal, of course).

>Raymond Scott is a good example of jazz that isn't improvised.

That's a direct contradiction.  And I'm not an intellectual snob in
saying that.  People who play or compose with jazz influences (thereby
creating their own 'jazz style') are not making the same music as people
playing true jazz that includes improvisation.

Regards,
- --bj
The Walter Wanderley Pictorial Discography:
http://members.xoom.com/bjbear71/Wanderley/main.html
http://bjbear3.freeservers.com/Wanderley/main.html


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 14:02:47 -0800
From: "Stephen W. Worth" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) Bozo the Clown

>Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 12:26:21 -0800
>From: "Carl Russo" <[e-mail]>
>Subject: (exotica) Bozos on this Bus
>
>Please help me.  I'm doing an upcoming 2-hour radio show of clown
>songs--from Bozo to Gacy.  I'm looking for recordings of the weird "Bozo
>Under the Sea"

I have a fairly clean copy of Bozo Under the Sea on 78, but I don't
have access to a phonograph right now. If you know of someone in
the Los Angeles area who would be willing to copy it, I would be
happy to supply it to you.

The artwork on several of the Bozo 78 sleeves was Grim Natwick,
the creator of Betty Boop and animator of Snow White. Just a
little trivia there for ya.

Please don't forget "Dumbo the Clown Who Loved Christmas" by
the infamous Residents. It is one of the most disturbingly
innocent perverted songs I have ever heard. Another good one
would be Hank Thompson's "Where is the Circus? Here Come the
Clowns". The album cover of Hank in greasepaint standing
solemnly on a desert landscape is very sad indeed.

See ya
Steve

      Stephen Worth
      [e-mail]

      The Web: http://www.spumco.com
      Usenet:  alt.animation.spumco
      Palace:  cartoonsforum.com:9994

      Spumco International
      415 E. Harvard St. Ste. 204
      Glendale, CA 91205



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 17:38:37 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: (exotica) [obits] David Berman,Charles Gray

From LA Times

David Berman, whose family costumed British infiltrators of the Nazi army, and who
personally dressed the movie "Cleopatra," television's "The Untouchables" and Broadway's
"Annie Get Your Gun" and put the neon in Liberace's suits, has died. He was 90.

Berman, who in one period created virtually every costume on the Las Vegas stage, died
Thursday in his Los Angeles home, said his daughter, Sally Sherman.

The scion of the family that started one of the first costume businesses in the world, Max
Berman & Sons, David Berman launched its Hollywood division in 1949. The company was begun
by Berman's great-grandfather in London, where it made uniforms for the royal family
during the 19th century and later expanded, becoming one of Europe's leading suppliers of
costumes for the stage and eventually films.

During World War II, Berman & Sons worked with British officials to create
authentic-looking Nazi uniforms for an espionage operation behind German lines.

After the war, the company established offices in Paris, Madrid and Rome, supplying the
rapidly developing motion picture production business. Berman, who moved to Los Angeles in
1939 and served in the U.S. Army Signal Corps making training films during the war,
established the company to supply Hollywood film companies, the American stage, the new
medium of television and Las Vegas.

Within a few years, he was costuming all the lavish stage productions in the neophyte
Nevada gaming city. When a Times columnist suggested that the nearly nude showgirls must
require very little costuming and that had to be bad for business, Berman countered that
so-called nude outfits didn't come cheap.

Berman created one essential gizmo called a "bicycle clip G-string" for the leggy Las
Vegas ladies and told The Times in 1960 that dressing a single showgirl in a rhinestone
bicycle clip and ostrich, osprey and vulture feathers with a fancy headdress could run
$2,000.

Other costumes were also pricey, even 40 years ago. One nightclub singer paid $55,000 for
what Berman designed for her to wear on stage. Pearl Bailey paid $6,000 for a costume
made, appropriately, with pearls, and Jayne Mansfield once paid $25,000 for a skintight
dress made of gold that was fashioned by a metalsmith rather than a seamstress.

His company churned out 1,000 costumes of various types a month. Berman may have gotten
the most attention for the glittery outfits he created for the flamboyant pianist
Liberace.

When a London reporter, obviously eager to show how the hometown business was faring in
far-off Hollywood, once asked Berman how many beads were on one Liberace tuxedo, the
costumer gave him a number with a straight face: 1,286,475.

 "And you know, he quoted me," Berman told Times columnist Gene Sherman, dumbfounded by
his own ruse.

Although Berman had little serious competition in his heyday, he made a calculated
business decision to destroy his overstock rather than sell it to any potential
competitor.

He supplied the wealthy with costumes for their own use, and when he and his wife, Jean,
went out to a Halloween party, they became as the town's best-dressed clowns.

Berman dressed the casts of motion pictures such as "Lawrence of Arabia" that became known
as costume dramas as well as lavish extravaganzas. His company worked with renowned
designers to turn their drawings into hats, dresses and other items of clothing. One
collaborator was Cecil Beaton, who won the Academy Award for his lavish designs for "My
Fair Lady." The costumes Berman made for "Cleopatra" also won an Oscar for designers
Vittorio Nino Novarese, Renie and Irene Sharaff. The Berman company also costumed casts of
smaller but no less demanding period films such as "Sophie's Choice."

On television, in addition to trench coats and fedoras for the treasury agents and
mobsters on "The Untouchables," Berman dressed Lucille Ball and her colleagues in "I Love
Lucy." He also provided a full range of costumes for skits and serious song and dance
productions of such variety shows as "The Danny Thomas Show," "The Carol Burnett Show" and
"The Red Skelton Show."

Berman produced the buckskin ensembles for "Annie Get Your Gun" and costumed stars for
Broadway productions of "Flower Drum Song" and "Guys and Dolls," among others.

His personal garb was less colorful than the show business outfits he designed, but he was
rarely seen without his signature red socks.

In addition to his wife of 64 years, Berman is survived by his daughter, Sally, of Beverly
Hills; his brother, Monty, of London; four grandchildren; and four great-grandchildren.
- -------
    LONDON (AP) -- Character actor Charles Gray, whose chillingly
villainous roles included James Bond's arch-enemy Ernst Blofeld,
has died at age 71.
    Gray died Tuesday at London's Brompton Hospital, his agents said
Wednesday. The cause of death was not announced.
    A versatile and admired character actor, Gray excelled as a
villain and as a colonial type but also portrayed a range of
sadistic generals and old-school men of property. He appeared in
horror films, television series and most recently was in the TV
mini-series ``Longitude.''
    He was best known to international audiences as Blofeld, the
villain with the white cat in his arms, in ``Diamonds Are
Forever,'' and as the sibilant narrator in ``The Rocky Horror
Picture Show.''
    In 1976, Gray starred as Sherlock Holmes's brother, Mycroft, in
the ``The Seven Per Cent Solution'' alongside Nicol Williamson and
Robert Duvall. He returned to the same role years later, with the
late Jeremy Brett, in ``Adventures of Sherlock Holmes,'' and ``The
Return of Sherlock Holmes.''
    His television career included roles in ``Upstairs Downstairs,''
``Tales of the Unexpected,'' and Dennis Potter's ``Blackeyes.''
    Early stage successes included a string of Shakespearean roles
at Stratford-upon-Avon and London's Old Vic theater.
    In the 1960s and 1970s, Gray moved into the realm of cult
movies, playing Black Werewolf, in ``The Beast Must Die,'' Satan's
emissary in ``The Devil Rides Out'' and, most famously, the ``Rocky
Horror'' narrator.
    Rocky Horror creator Richard O'Brien said that in real life Gray
could not have been more different from his on-screen persona.
    ``He was a charming man with a dry wit and a low tolerance of
pomposity in others,'' said O'Brien.
    There was no immediate word of survivors or funeral plans.




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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 17:42:30 -0500
From: Brian Phillips <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Jazz/Improvisation

A funny aside:

On the last edition of "My Music", a radio panel game from England that I
hear when I can, Steve Race (the chairman and a pianist, Jazz and other
styles) asked one of the panelists, "What is Ragtime?", to which the
panelist replied, "I have no idea".

He then quoted a dictionary of music (Oxford's?) which said, (I'm
paraphrasing) Ragtime - a style of music played in Ragtime and "Ragging"
was defined as "playing a piece of music in a Ragtime style".

Race then said to the panelist, "If he can get away with THAT, then I'm
going to give you two points for YOUR answer!"

Another aside:
On the back of Martin Denny's Exotica, the music is described as Jazz; I am
NOT going to argue the point of whether it is or isn't.  Just something I
noticed (and posted) before that I am making mention of.

Another aside:
"The Single Petal From a Rose" by Duke Ellington is from the Queen's
Suite.  Buy it and play it at weddings, etc.  What was most fascinating to
me was that I heard another version of this song played by a pianist that
was known primarily for "Classical" music.  If I had played both of them
side by side, you would know which version was which and there is not one
note that is improvised.  I have come to dislike the term Classical music
as the music of concert halls played by orchestras.  What is a
classic?  Bach's Brandenburg Concertos?  Bessie Smith's "St. Louis
Blues"?  Flatt and Scruggs "Foggy Mountain Breakdown"?

For me, the answer to the questions is "All of the above".  That is why I
put the term "Classical" in "Quotes" like I just "did".  Also, let us not
limit artists.  Anthony Braxton lectured a class I was in, in which he
express disdain over everything that he wrote being classified as Jazz ("If
I talk, it's Jazz?  If I walk down the street, it's Jazz?".  In fact, the
opera that I was in (a very small part and thankfully unrecorded; the first
performance of Trillium) was primarily Avant-Garde, if you must label it.

Another aside:

Miles Davis once said, "Don't call it Jazz, call it music." That may seem
to be a bit abrasive to some but the word Jazz once had a rather naughty
connotation to it as it, "I just jazzed that woman good".  Think about
that.  Would you wish to play a music in which you are expressing yourself
(provided you have the talent to do so) in a glorious and beautiful way,
something which you went to college for, don't get paid much for, can't get
much play on the radio for, only to hear someone say, "That was Brian
Phillips and his Orchestra, one of the greatest performers of F**k
music.  Let's bring him to the microphone.  When did you get interested in
F**k and did your Father teach you?  How long have you played F**k and
could you kindly tell the neophyte listeners, 'What the Jazz IS F**k
music'?  Do you have any advice to youngsters who aspire to F**k...", etc.,
etc,.

NO, I don't consider Jazz a dirty word, but when you grow up as Davis did,
with the word losing that meaning, but never gaining the respect it
deserved, you may opt for the "call it music" option.

"So, hey there, Phillips, where do you stand on the 'What is Jazz' argument?"

I stand as an African-American man who tries to know his culture through
many means, music being one of them.  As for improvisation, Beethoven
complained to musicians playing his music NOT to improvise as the printed
music was regarded as a framework not as the only way to play the music.  I
stand on the fact that I have enjoyed many types of music, because that's
how I was raised, in a house full of music.  I stand as a man with a degree
in music from a University, which means...

The more I know about music, the less I know.  Listen, listen, listen,
enjoy, enjoy, enjoy.  Spot the similarities in music because the
differences are self-evident.  It's much more fun that way and as such, I
get along with just about everyone.

I still say we all need to go over to Kenny G's house ring the doorbell and
run like the dickens, if that helps any.

Brian Phillips




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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 17:46:23 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (exotica) Bozos on this Bus

<< I'm looking for recordings of the weird "Bozo
 Under the Sea"  >>

Finally, something I can relate to!  This intellectual mumbo jumbo about what
jazz is is way over my pointed little head.

If nobody has come through for ya, Ratso, I'm your man.  I've got a NM copy
of Under The Sea and am equipped to spit out a fully packaged CD-R for you.
This copy is one of those Captiol 33-1/3 LP reissues.  If time permits, I'll
track down Rocket Ship.  Pops up often on ebay, but mighty collectible...

Bozo Under the Sea was the very first thing I can actually remember hearing
as a kid - a real little kid, like 2 or 3 - so your project tugs at my heart
strings.

Where do I send my donation?

bye for now -

ford



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 17:50:48 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  (exotica)Oh Yeah

In a message dated 3/8/0 3:42:05 PM, [e-mail] wrote:

>I saw the O'Kaysions record in a store likewise and would easily have spent
>$3 on it

I sold my copy of the North Carolina sextet's LP sometime ago so I can't
remember exactly what's on it, but I recall it as containing the one hit "I'm
A Girl Watcher" which is kind of a pop-soul thing from '68 and a few more MOR
tunes and standard-type fare. While "Girl Watcher" is cute, organ-based,
vocal and  swings in a cool and strange way, the record to REALLY watch out
for is the song its based on; Ginger Thompson's "I'm A Boy Watcher" on EMI,
from 1967.  Be prepared to part with serious sheckels for that one though.
ANY LP worth having is worth shelling $3 for IMHO......JB/living comfortably
without The O'Kaysions


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 17:31:52 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Mimi Mayer)
Subject: Re: (exotica) If you gotta ask...

Well, don't need to ask but I  gotta confess something. It tickles me to
witness...
a discussion pinning down jazz, which is all about fluidity, exploration,
improv, spontaneity, taking forms and turning em every which way upside
down inside out and swingin it too, while you're at it, buster
a discussion defining tiki music, which is all about sensuality, the
ineffable, mystery

It's giving me a grin just when I need it. Thanks, BJ & Nat & Mo & Brian
and whoever. Let the games continue. Hope you lance those windmills or have
a great time trying. Mimi




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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 00 15:45:36 -0800
From: "B.J. Major" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (exotica) Jazz/Improvisation

>Barbara - you're beating a dead horse.

Sorry you feel that way; if nothing moves me to comment on a post, I
don't.  If it does, I do.  People that don't like/aren't interested in
the Jazz thread can always set up a filter to delete it so they don't
have to read it.

Regards,
- --bj
The Walter Wanderley Pictorial Discography:
http://members.xoom.com/bjbear71/Wanderley/main.html
http://bjbear3.freeservers.com/Wanderley/main.html


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 19:42:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Lou Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) What is Jazz? (shut up already!)

 Citizen Kafka <[e-mail]> wrote:
 >go back and listen to your favorite album. As long as you know where you
 put it, you're on the right track.

 This is why Kafka is my hero!

 -Lou




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Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 19:46:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Lou Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Jazz/Improvisation

At 05:42 PM 3/8/00 -0500, Brian wrote:
>

>Another aside:
>
>Miles Davis once said, "Don't call it Jazz, call it music." That may seem
>to be a bit abrasive to some but the word Jazz once had a rather naughty
>connotation to it as it, "I just jazzed that woman good".  Think about
>that.  Would you wish to play a music in which you are expressing yourself
>(provided you have the talent to do so) in a glorious and beautiful way,
>something which you went to college for, don't get paid much for, can't get
>much play on the radio for, only to hear someone say, "That was Brian
>Phillips and his Orchestra, one of the greatest performers of F**k
>music.  Let's bring him to the microphone.  When did you get interested in
>F**k and did your Father teach you?  How long have you played F**k and
>could you kindly tell the neophyte listeners, 'What the Jazz IS F**k
>music'?  Do you have any advice to youngsters who aspire to F**k...", etc.,
>etc,.
>

>The more I know about music, the less I know.  Listen, listen, listen,
>enjoy, enjoy, enjoy.  Spot the similarities in music because the
>differences are self-evident.  It's much more fun that way and as such, I
>get along with just about everyone.
>


If CK is my hero, Brian, can you be his side-kick? Can I have more than one
hero? OK, you're one too!

I swear, if you ever decide to unsubscribe from this list, I'll come over to
your house and break your finger before you can hit "enter." No, wait --
that'd defeat the purpose, wouldn't it.

- -Lou




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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 20:25:08 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: (exotica) anti-jazz

Here's a twist to the question on what jazz is.
What would you consider to be the complete opposite of jazz?

First thing that came to my mind was John Phillip Sousa marches. I know there
are probably better answers out there....any takers?

Vern



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 21:24:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Lou Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) anti-jazz

At 08:25 PM 3/8/00 -0500, Vern wrote:
>
>Here's a twist to the question on what jazz is.
>What would you consider to be the complete opposite of jazz?
>
>First thing that came to my mind was John Phillip Sousa marches. I know there
>are probably better answers out there....any takers?
>
Well, the Souza thing sounds plausible until you think of New Orleans Brass
Bands...how about that LP where someone (forget who) translated Earth's
Magnetic Field data into pitch/tembre/tempo info. Unless you picture the
planet as improvising its magnetic pulses, that my choice.

- -Lou




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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 16:03:04 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (exotica) Jazz/Improvisation

[e-mail] writes:
>... Raymond Scott is a good example of jazz that isn't improvised. ...

    This reminds me of an interview with musician DON BYRON from CONVENTIONAL
WISDOM magazine (an excerpt):

CM: "Improvisation is central to jazz."
DON BYRON: "Yes, but Jelly Roll Morton's and Duke Ellington's early music was
almost entirely routined, and varied little from performance to performance.
And Raymond Scott's music was through-composed, yet swings like a M-F!"














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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 22:13:32 -0500
From: Ross 'Mambo Frenzy' Orr <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) categories

Without attempting for a minute to get into defining music categories. . .

I just wanted to comment that at this point I have enough records
that I've had to resort to putting little post-its on the
innersleeves of records to remind myself what each record sounds
like. So I have to write *something* descriptive that will give me
some idea what category it is in. I've found myself making up a more
and more idiosyncratic vocabulary to try and evoke the different
categories which seem relevant to me. Here are a few of the terms
that I've been using the most:

Twisty
Noir
Big Bandish
Pepsi Generation
Tangy
Percussion Graft
Bossafied
Cocktail Suave
Vegas Brass

etc.


Plus, various combinations of the above--for example, "Experiment in
Terror" as played by Al Caiola = "Twist Noir"

It's hopeless of course.

cheers,
  --Ross

|| Ross "Mambo Frenzy" Orr  <[e-mail]>
|| Ann Arbor, Michigan USA


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 14:55:09 +1100
From: "Keith E. Lo Bue" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) Thye Musick Gods

An uplifting fable.

Our neighborhood here in an =DCber-Suburban=81 shire of Sydney just had their
junk collection by the shire council...trucks will come and pick up all the
crap you can stuff at the end of your (brick) driveway.

Over two weeks, as I skateboarded my little girl to day-care, I found lots
of great odds-n-ends, records, etc.

Then the pick-up day drew close

and out of the brickwork came the big guns.

After one twenty-four-hour frenzy, I sat back in my living room (=DCber-Sub=81)
and surveyed my take:

Sharp Optonica Integrated Amp
Sharp Optonica Digital Tuner
Sharp Optonica Solenoid Cassette Deck
Sharp Optonica Direct-Drive Turntable w/Audio-Technica cartridge
Color Television
Panasonic "The Genius" Microwave

The cassette deck needs a $3 belt.

I'm warming up to this town, cancha tell?

Keith

****************************
http://www.lobue-art.com
A virtual gallery and info
site for the artwork and
workshops of KEITH E. LO BUE
****************************



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Date: 8 Mar 2000 20:19:09 -0800
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (exotica) categories

At 10:13 PM 08-03-00 -0500, Ross wrote:
>I just wanted to comment that at this point I have enough records
>that I've had to resort to putting little post-its on the
>innersleeves of records to remind myself what each record sounds
>like. So I have to write *something* descriptive

I have found all of the comments to this interesting and provacative.  Its
not that I like this as an "issue", but I do like the information people
use while responding.

Certainly I agree with Kafka's Komments.  Categorize your stuff so you can
find it...not according to how you "should" place it.  This is why, for
many people, organizing by record label or number makes more sense...and
there are many more methods which don't force stereotypes into art
(chronilogical, color of spine, size...you name it).

When I worked at a public radio station, someone got the bright idea of
colorcoding all the records.  Blue for The Blues, Yellow for folk, Red for
Rock and so on.  But that wasn't enough.  Soon there were subcategories and
then divisions of subcategories.  In the end there were four stripes on
some records...the spines looked like-old style ceramic resistors!

After that fine a hierarchy was established it became meaningless.  I
stopped looking for anything but the main category and by the time I had
anything to say about it, the practice was fortunately abandoned.

For me the only real measure of the music was playing it and short of that
time consuming practice, a quick read of the back cover notes for something
that would spark my interest (a cool title, some respected musicians,
well-known composers or arrangers, descriptions of instrumentations).  This
was good training for me when I started scouring record bins and buying
stuff I had no idea would be good or bad.

One section of the library was the C.C. Linley collection which included
most of the real collectible albums.  The station, I think, has changed
through so many people that they may have parsed out that
collection...perhaps even abandoned albums altogether as is the trend these
days.  I found it interesting how Mr. Linley made notes on his records.  He
had a grading system of checks and often marked tempo.  I never quite
deciphered everything, but it was always fun to see what I thought it meant
(did 4 checks mean it was really great, really bad, was loud, soft, or just
that he played it 4 times?).

In the end, listening to music and collecting it is just a personal
relationship between you and the musician which can't be explained...and
certainly not divided and subdivided with precision.

I am want to always categorize everything...the computer scientist in
me...but I also want to just throw everything in a big pile and take each
record for what it means to me at that moment at that place, knowing that
will change again, defying categorization.  I think both things are natural
for humans to do, but somewhere in the middle is where it makes the most
sense...where you can find most things and accept some crossover...and yet
can also enjoy a better variety of music.

Byron

Byron Caloz
Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth, Sol, Milky Way
http://www.hubris.net/zolac
The Mr. Smooth site: http://www.hubris.net/zolac/smooth


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 14:24:32 +1100
From: "Keith E. Lo Bue" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) Re: exotica-digest V2 #644

>Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 12:02:18 +0000
>From: Michael Jemmeson <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: (exotica) What is Jazz?
>
>I found Ben Sidran's 'Black Talk' book on this subject to be a very
>interesting and helpful read. Can wholeheartedly recommend it.


Had to have a belly laugh when I read this...no offense, the book may be
wonderful, but it's written by the whitest, most un-hip un-rhythmic
un-soulful faux-jazzman I've ever laid eyes or ears on.  Well, almost.  I've
got a video of him 'rapping', complete with little boombox, as two homeys
break in the background, that belongs on everyone's 'The Earth Has Broken
Out Of Its Orbit And We're Hurtling Towards The Sun' compilation.

Keith

****************************
http://www.lobue-art.com
A virtual gallery and info
site for the artwork and
workshops of KEITH E. LO BUE
****************************



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Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 23:01:08 -0800
From: Kevin Crossman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) I found definitive TIKI music....(really, I did)

"B.J. Major" wrote:
> > and "real" tiki music, except the
> >name of course. Or, at least that's what I think.  Still, a cool place
> >to hang out...
>
> You were the tiki expert I was thinking of when the "What is Tiki music?"
> question was raised.  In your opinion, what is (or what constitutes) tiki
> music?  What would be good examples to listen to?

Uh, I think you must have me confused with someone else...

That said, in my view Tiki music should sound exotic and feature some
sort of "natural" sounding percussion. It certainly shouldn't sound like
a broadway musical.  Though obviously there are exceptions...

Kevin Crossman
- --
***********************************************************
*     Kevin Crossman           [e-mail]            *
*   http://www.kevdo.com  - The Narrow Interest Portal    *
*  Lip Balm Anonymous, Ultimate Mai Tai, Exotica Archive  *
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Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 01:56:58 PST
From: "w m" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) reccomendations?

hi all,

  does anybody have the (french) instrumental 60s compilation series? i'm
wondering if they are worth picking up. the discs contain eps by some of the
following: les milords, les monegasques, the averns et leurs guitares
elctriques,  jingle jumpers, the krewkat(krewkuts?), the gladiators, les 4
kiwis(tony and the intials), claude ciari,.. any commments would be helpful.

  also i saw an italian movie soundtrack for a film called arrriva la bomba
which looks quite good. the shop  only has one copy and i'm not sure if they
will get more in. is it highly reccomended? its a little  expensive by
taipei standards so i'm not sure if  i should just go for it or not.

       william in taipei.


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 21:21:18 +1100
From: Philip Jackson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Jazz/Improvisation

on 9/3/00 9:42 AM, Brian Phillips at [e-mail] wrote:

> Listen, listen, listen,
> enjoy, enjoy, enjoy.

hear, hear, hear.

Philip
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Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 21:21:13 +1100
From: Philip Jackson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) anti-jazz

on 9/3/00 12:25 PM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] wrote:

>
> Here's a twist to the question on what jazz is.
> What would you consider to be the complete opposite of jazz?
>
Eno is credited as playing a "direct inject anti-jazz ray-gun" on Robert
Wyatt's "Ruth Is Stranger Than Richard" album (which is actually quite
"jazzy") but I guess some sorts of automatic music created by machines or
computer algorithms would have to be anti-improvisation/jazz.

Philip
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Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 12:43:58 +0100
From: Moritz R <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) What is Jazz? (shut up already!)

Citizen Kafka wrote:

> My first and flame-like comment is that I have had to endure worthless
> arguments and discussions about this issue and the categorization of
> most any type of music for many years...
>
> Divide your entire collection into...

> Comment: spend as little time as possible worrying about what category a
> recording is and start listening more carefully and critically...

There it is again, the old fear of categorization, of "defining" things. So,
this entire thread was completely worthless, right? This is not a hero
speaking. I think it's cheap. What's the point? Am I not listening carefully,
because I talk about it? Is making categories a crime? Does it limit me? Come
on, it's all a mind-game anyway. It's what this list is all about, talking
about music, and why not?!
I have been listening to all kinds of music all my life and now I want to know
"What is Jazz?" And why not? The discussion of Exotica developed to the point,
where the question of its Jazz-roots came up and subsequently the question was
raised "What is Jazz?" This does not in any way mean that anything is about to
be caged in defintions. Quite the opposite: The LESS I know the more limited I
am, stuck in the categories that I don't understand. The MORE I go into the
deep of a subject, the freer my mind becomes, questioning the categories to a
degree where they are pushed beyond their own limits.
I am not worrying about categories at all! I'm rather excited. Some people
always argue against those who use their brain to analyze, categorize and
recognize the world around them. They always say things like "It's not
possible to know what the truth is", "You must feel it" and consider
themselves being so liberal, tolerant and open-minded. F**k! As if I would
care! If the question of 'truth' would bother me, I couldn't even move my
little finger.

>This list has more open-minded music
>listeners and music lovers with broader taste than most other lists
>around here. i hope it stays that way.

I not only hope, I just KNOW, it will stay that way and therefore I TRUST the
list members, that when they discuss something, anything, they have a point.
And don't call their efforts to word their complicated thoughts and paths
through the Jungle of phenomena of music as worthless.
The streets to enlightment are not always perfect, straight and wide,
sometimes they turn out to be blind alleys. It doesn't mean walking is stupid.

It's not like this thread didn't get to any results: Contradictory positions
have merged: Jazz is about improvisation AND Martin Denny is Jazz, that much
is clear now. What it MEANS... is another question. It may lead to listen to
Martin Denny in a different way and actually discovering improvised parts in
his music that you just didn't notice before. Because there was no such
category in your mind to HEAR that. I think that would be a great result!

Mo


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------------------------------

End of exotica-digest V2 #645
*****************************