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bagpipe-digest       Tuesday, September 28 1999       Volume 01 : Number 086




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 19:09:47 GMT
From: "Ron Bowen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: What's it all about?

Bill, I thoroughly enjoyed your company at Capital District Games, and I
think you're an O.K. guy, but I don't agree with you here.  I'm not picking
a fight here (you and I are much to civilized for that) but what do you
consider "crap"?  John made some good points and he certainly speaks from a
position of experience and accomplishment.  Why would you call his opinion
"crap"?

John's point was that you can learn some things on the NG, however you can't
learn other things, like tone, phrasing, expression, etc.  In order to learn
these things, you have to be in an environment where they are valued,
pursued, experienced, demanded, and taught.  Even then, you may not "get"
it.  These are difficult concepts and skills to understand, let alone
master.  Not everyone can so do.

It's unfair of me to sit here and a say these things and not offer some
constructive thoughts.  Listen to as many CDs of the top bands as you can.
Hang around them at the games.  Ask them questions.  Try to understand and
copy what they do.  Challenge yourself and your bagpipe to become perfect.
Find someone better to play with.  Push yourself to learn 60 to 80 tunes for
a season.  Drive 4 hours to band practice.  Practice at home for 3 hours
after attending a 6 hour practice.  Push everything possible to the edge and
then.... then you will see that John speaketh the truth.

Good Piping, Bill
Ringo

SENDMEMORESPAM <[e-mail]> wrote in message
news:[e-mail]...
> >Just what is the point of this news group anyway? I still maintain <snip>
>
> All pure crap John. You'll just never understand. Luckily many (most?) do!
> Bill
> Mar a bha, mar a tha,
> mar a bhitheas gu brath,
> ri tra'ghadh's ri lionadh.
>



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 19:58:36 GMT
From: Brian Counihan <[e-mail]>
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: Pipe Band Grade Standards

 I think its a fact that the more successful bands are the ones that
have a good teaching programs and field bands in various grades.

 I'm fortunate to be a member of one of those organizations. We field a
gr V, IV and III band. All members are encouraged to move up when it's
appropriate. We also encourage members to practice with the higher level
band in order to facilitate that movement. We run 3 practice nights a
week with one dedicated to each level. One of those nights is also when
our school of P&D takes place where we instruct all of our beginners.

 Each year there is movement from one level to the other and each band
progressivley improves over the last year.

 I also "jumped bands" to be here. It was a matter of getting what
wasn't being provided. My piping has improved significantly over the
last 3 years.

 The above scenario may result in some, if not all of the bands not
moving up in grade. However, the personel WILL most likely change.

- --
Brian C.
http://www.stcolumcille.com/
"If you ever reach total enlightenment while drinking beer, I bet it
makes beer shoot out your nose." - Deep Thought, Jack Handy


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

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------------------------------

Date: 23 Sep 1999 18:09:42 GMT
From: [e-mail] (SENDMEMORESPAM)
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: Final altamont TP post (hopefully?)

>1. I wonder why your TP was gone??
Your wrong!
I know why! Because I was there when the porta potties were delivered friday
afternoon. There were THREE partial rolls of TP in the three that were
delivered. That's not even 1 roll per unit that was delivered, and that was
supposed last 2 days and nights?
Try to know what your talking about before you go accusing people of "Hijinx".

>3. Please don't make me give And St. John's e-mail address again!!<
Yes please do! I'm sure he'd like to ignore the issue some more. I got no
response from him.
If there's no problem there, than a complaint to the board of heath won't hurt
anything.


>and you can't stomach it again... Might I suggest a
>local hotel??? ;)

Might I suggest health facilitys worthy of something better than a pig? I guess
those conditions didn't bother you, but they did most of the people there. When
I pay a rather expensive fee to camp someplace, I expect more than just a patch
of swampland to pitch a tent. You accept cash and form a contract, providing
human-like conditions where people won't get ill is, or should be, part of that
contract.

Bill
Mar a bha, mar a tha,
mar a bhitheas gu brath,
ri tra'ghadh's ri lionadh.


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:46:25 -0400
From: Chris Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: What's it all about?

I've got to agree with a good deal of what John says.  Of course, in
my diplomatic and demure persona I wouldn't have said it quite in
John's unique wording, but I can't disagree with much of his argument.

And speaking of beer tents, we'll see everyone at The Celtic Classic
this weekend.  Steel Cage Death Match -- COW versus Niagara -- come
one come all.

. . . Let's get ready to Rrrrruuuummmmbbbbblllle ....

Chris
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chris Hamilton -- [e-mail]
City of Washington Pipe Band
http://toneczar.freeservers.com/

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:28:18 +0100
From: "lsrapm" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: Cool Weather Piping (Chanter Reed Effects)

It's Mark's reeds I was talking about. I've had them in for three months now
and I don't need to worry any more about a reed stopping or going out of
tune.

Chris

Richard Mao <[e-mail]> wrote in message
news:[e-mail]...
> Uh... both alex and chris...
>
> Are you referring to Mark Wygent's reeds or Mark Lee's reeds..?
>
> When I die, I know I'm going to heaven.
>      I've already been through Hell as a member of a pipe band.
>
> Richard Mao, The Peking Piper ( [e-mail] )
>
>
> lsrapm wrote:
>
> > <[e-mail]> wrote in message
news:7s8sd1$vpj$[e-mail]...
> > > Zu,
> > >     Don't you have a set of Mark's reeds?  I think you could eliminate
> > > a lot of these problems by playing those.  I played Mark's reeds in
> > > Estes Park a couple of weeks ago where the conditions were worse than
> > > those you described at Loon Mountain, and had absolutely no problem
> > > with drones shutting off.  I've had the same problems you describe
> > > playing wygents and cane in the past.  I took my drone reeds out of
the
> > > stock once in a while out of curiosity, and they were dripping with
> > > moisture, but still playing fine
> >
> > That's just what I've found. Beads of water standing on the reed body
but
> > nothing on the tongue. And the reeds still playing the same as always.
> >
> > Chris Eyre
>



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:31:06 +0100
From: "lsrapm" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: DEAR ROYCE

OK. I give in..... honest. Having just read most of this mornings posts,
I've come to realise that this IS the OK corral.
Come back, Royce. All is forgiven. Load up them shotguns and get in
there..... It's like a bar-room brawl just now. (I'm hiding under counter
trying trying to finish my drink.

Chris


SENDMEMORESPAM <[e-mail]> wrote in message
news:[e-mail]...
>
>
>
> >C'mon Chris... admit your human too!!! Afterall this time on the NG he
> >finally
> >got to you??? LOL!
> >Glad to see your human too! Remember your comment to me awhile back about
me
> >being "more human" than most on the NG? I at first, I took it as slightly
> >insulting (ever see superman?) but came to realize that strength is a
human
> >weakness. I guess I am more emotional on-line than most, and I deserve
that
> >connotation, therefore I am more human, but I guess there's a bit of that
in
> >all of us, and I'm not at all sure it's a bad thing.
> >I am honored that you contacted me first, and that I was able to connect
you
> >with RMMB, because nothing you've ever said here has EVER embarrased me
(like
> >that could happen!) or anyone else on RMMB that didn't deserve it.
> >"Class" speaks for itself!
> >Bill
>
> That was a private email. I never said that.
> Bill
> Mar a bha, mar a tha,
> mar a bhitheas gu brath,
> ri tra'ghadh's ri lionadh.
>



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:26:11 -0700
From: "Jeff Ramsden (MacLe≥id)" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: Happy Birthday

Brad Morrison <[e-mail]> wrote in message
news:[e-mail]...
> I know this probably seems pretty silly, but does anyone have
> the notes/music to Happy Birthday (which I am assuming is
> public domain)?
>
> It's a hot request for pipes in my neighborhood!
>

I think it sounds silly, too.......
......I've also been looking for it for a couple of weeks now. :P

Seriously, if you find it, please do send me a copy as well - I
can't seem to find it anywhere, and I've GOT to have it
ready to go soon.

Slan agad -

- --
- ----------------------
Goraidh (Jeff) Ramsden
Pacific Region Vice President Clan MacLeod Society USA, Inc.
Clann MhicLe≥id Le≤dhais (MacThorchadail)
"I Birn Quhil I Se" - "Vivat Rex"



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------------------------------

Date: 23 Sep 1999 17:28:33 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Ccc31807)
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: Games -  minimum standards

>If anyone has some suggestions for improving
>conditions for pipers/pipe bands at the games in the EUSPBA please let me
>know
>and I will try to put something together to submit to the officers of the
>organization.

I happen to be the P&D coordinator for a highlands games, so I am sensitive to
the impact something like this will have on the games' committees.  First and
foremost, we should not, NOT, impose any burden on the games other than those
strictly related to piping.  They have more than enough to do otherwise.

That said, maybe the monitors could be instructed to report on the games'
physical layout, with the idea of the PBA doing what it can to improve the
competitions, and a three step process (warning, probation, and de-sanctioning)
if the games have the resources to solve particular problems but neglect to do
so.

Anyway, it's clear that the PBA can require the games to provide adequate rest
facilities and performance venues as a precondition for sanctioning, and it's
also clear that the PBA ought to have a means for members, individual and
corporate, to express dissatisfaction with the games if things go awry.  Ought
not to be too difficult to deal with.

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:39:46 -0700
From: "Iain Sherwood" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: Happy Birthday

It's very simple to pick out and NO it's not in the public domain....

IS
Brad Morrison <[e-mail]> wrote in message
news:[e-mail]...
> I know this probably seems pretty silly, but does anyone have
> the notes/music to Happy Birthday (which I am assuming is
> public domain)?
>
> It's a hot request for pipes in my neighborhood!
>
>
> * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network
*
> The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
>



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:43:28 -0700
From: "Iain Sherwood" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: Out of Chaos....

hear, hear...

IS
Ron Bowen <[e-mail]> wrote in message
news:YatG3.49504$[e-mail]...
> Well, this certainly has been a lively place lately!  I believe it was
> Frederich Wilhelm Nietzsche who said "Out of chaos comes order."  But
> then.... he never met this bunch.  From my perspective only, I am
> disappointed to see the NG reduced to the stinking pool of primordial goop
> that it has become of late.  Finger pointing, name calling, accusations,
> slagging and crotch kicking.  If we were a family, I think we would be
> called "highly dysfunctional" unless, of course, our primary purpose is to
> point fingers, lay blame, call names, slag, kick crotches, etc.
>
> So to each person out there reading this right now, I have a few
questions:
>
> 1) "How do people know you?"  I'll help you with this first one.  The
answer
> is easy.  They know you by your deeds, by the words you speak and write,
by
> how you treat others, and by the reputation that precedes and follows you.
>
> 2) "How do you want people to know you?"
>
> 3) "How do you think people know you by your participation on this NG?"
>
> My advice is simple.  If you want to be taken seriously, act like it.  If
> you're here to learn, learn.  If you're here to help, help.  Stay clear of
> the school yard bullies and bigmouths.  They'll either eventually follow
> your example or go away.  And if they don't, they will be known to all for
> what they are.
>
> This place is what we make it, and right now, it's not worth being here.
I
> certainly wouldn't recommend it to anyone.
>
> Ringo
>
>
>



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:45:47 -0700
From: "Iain Sherwood" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: What's it all about?

hear, hear. It's nice to see that there are realists out there, willing to
put their names and reps on the line against the wannabes. Thanks for
expressing what many of us feel, and doing it succinctly, yet with
flair....och, weel, as Seton Gordon used to say, don't talk, play....

IS
<[e-mail]> wrote in message
news:7sdnsm$fsv$[e-mail]...
> Just what is the point of this news group anyway? I still maintain
> you can't learn anything from here about playing the instrument itself.
>
> You can't read about blowing tone and tuning, or phrasing and timing
> as these have to be demonstrated directly. I've seen many people
> try to describe timing of tunes, and I don't even get what their saying
> ,so how the hell is a newbie supposed to get it.
>
> What this NG is good for, is discussing issues about competitions,
> selection of good tunes to play and where to find them, bagpipe
> products such as the  Ross Canister Bag, and also current events
> happening in the piping world, such as the recent situation with the
> Peel police.
>
> I know there are many good players who have looked at this NG and
> decided that it's not worth getting involved.There are too many
> numpties that don't understand the workings of the piping world and try
> to jump in and declare their expressed opinion, which is based on
> their own limited experience.
>
> People fall into two categories. There are the serious players that
> are involved in the top level competitions, and then there are the
> casual
> players that play a few times a week because they enjoy hearing the
> instrument.  These two types of players are worlds apart in terms of
> understanding each other.
>
> The casual player doesn't understand the competitive spirit of
> the Top players, and the top players don't get what's so enjoyable
> about playing in parades and playing the basic tunes.
>
> The casual players are usually under the impression that the top
> players don't enjoy the music as much as they do. The top
> players usually have a couple hundred tunes in their repertoire,
> and have learned a thousand tunes or so, so you would think
> they just might enjoy the music too!!!!
>
> The biggest problem I see with this fucking NG is that there are a
> few individuals who don't understand the workings of the piping
> world, and then try to stand up and declare that they have ever right
> to voice their opinion, and we should listen to it.
>
> Well folks, it doesn't work that way, as I've said before.
> The problem with adult learners is they have adult attitudes, but
> when they enter the world of piping, they have to realize that
> their just babes in the woods and that they have no opinion.
>
> Does that make me a snob, of course not! Would you want to listen
> to anyone that wasn't proficient in any field. If some guy came up
> to me in a beer tent, and said he just won the grade 4 solo contest
> I'd congratulate him, but then if he tried to tell me what is the best
> tempo to play a march at, then I'd have to tell him to get tae fuck!
>
> It's just like when you enter the army, They shave your head and
> strip you of all of your identity. They do that so you will lose the
> "me attitude" and you will learn to do it their way.
>
> It's the same thing here, there's nobody here that wants to listen
> how difficult it is to excel at this instrument.
> People don't like to hear about what it takes to make a piper.
> I wouldn't call playing 20 tunes on a bad instrument a piper either.
> And there are also players out there that have been given good
> instruction and still play badly, so talent does have something
> to do with it as well.
>
> Most people have no idea of what it takes to excel at this game.
> Oh there are plenty of people sitting on the side lines that think
> they know what their talking about, but unless you have made the
> commitment to play in the top levels, you just have no idea.
>
> Yes there is alot of sacrifice that these top level players make,
> I think alot of people take it for granted that the grade one bands
> just naturally sound the way they do. It takes many hours of practice
> to get it that way, but it's very satisfying when it all comes together.
>
> I've met many people as a  result of the pipes. I enjoyed talking to
> the folks that know what their talking about, but there are other
> types who have no clue and put on a good show, and then you
> learn to avoid them after awhile.
>
> It's the same with this NG, there are those who profess to be
> knowledgeable, but then you hear them play poorly, on a set
> of pipes that suck shit, and they lose all credibility.
>
> Am I saying that you have to be a good player to give advise,
> NO, but it sure would help to know who your talking too.
> You've got guys making pipes and reeds that have just barley
> learned the scale. How would they even know if they had a good
> product or not. What are they listening too or for.
>
> This newsgroup seems to thrive on pure conjecture, and
> many get involved in personal attacks on the posters.
> I believe if anyone posts on here, it doesn't give certain individuals
> the right to declare open season on them. There are individuals
> that sit behind the safety of their keyboard and slag away at anyone.
>
> Should we show some respect when the likes of Colin Maclellan,
> Murray Henderson and others show up from time to time to
> voice their opinion. Fucking right you do!
> I know Royce, you don't believe in paying Homage to these good
> players, but they do deserve it.
> What are you going to do if Alisdair Gillies shows up here?
>
> Anyways as Ringo says
>
> happy piping
> John Mitchell
> I'll have to talk to that boy about his civilized attitude.
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Share what you know. Learn what you don't.



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------------------------------

Date: 23 Sep 1999 21:14:45 GMT
From: [e-mail] (SENDMEMORESPAM)
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: What's it all about?

>I've said it before...  if you haven't stood in a Grade 1 circle, you can't
>appreciate what it's like or what it takes to get there.  This isn't bad.
>It's just the way it is.  This doesn't mean that your opinion doesn't count,
>it just means that your opinion isn't hasn't been formulated by the same
>things, namely, first hand experience.

But many of the questions here aren't influenced by grade1 experience. The
typical question here is "Whats the best CD to listen to?", grade1 play isn't
req'd to answer that. That was my point regarding peoples opinions, and it got
twisted around.

>So my question becomes... would you
>rather listen to someone who has been there and done that, or someone who
>hasn't and will never?

Depends on the question. I didn't see anyone saying they didn't appreciate the
work you put in to get there, just one guy who knows how to push buttons, and
John and Lindsay fell for it.
Bill
Mar a bha, mar a tha,
mar a bhitheas gu brath,
ri tra'ghadh's ri lionadh.


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------------------------------

Date: 23 Sep 1999 21:07:21 GMT
From: [e-mail] (SENDMEMORESPAM)
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: Out of Chaos....

>Ron Bowen <[e-mail]> wrote in message
>news:YatG3.49504$[e-mail]...
>> Well, this certainly has been a lively place lately!

Ron,
I must admit to being baffled by your comments. I don't see the NG is any
wilder than usual, except for John and Lindsay shaking things up.
Is anyone out there confused by the difference between "debate" and "flame"? It
sounds like it to me. A flame is a personal insult. Debate is what John,
Lindsay and myself have been doing. Nothing malicious, just an exchange amongst
internet buddies.
The fact is that this NG is not for everyone, those that don't like the
goings-on can choose not to read it. Hope you don't leave because I enjoy your
posts, but "it is what it is".
Bill
Mar a bha, mar a tha,
mar a bhitheas gu brath,
ri tra'ghadh's ri lionadh.


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------------------------------

Date: 23 Sep 1999 21:22:07 GMT
From: [e-mail] (SENDMEMORESPAM)
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: What's it all about?

>hear, hear. It's nice to see that there are realists out there, willing to
>put their names and reps on the line against the wannabes. Thanks for
>expressing what many of us feel, and doing it succinctly, yet with
>flair....och, weel, as Seton Gordon used to say, don't talk>

You guys are still the minority here...
Bill
Mar a bha, mar a tha,
mar a bhitheas gu brath,
ri tra'ghadh's ri lionadh.


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------------------------------

Date: 23 Sep 1999 21:20:25 GMT
From: [e-mail] (SENDMEMORESPAM)
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: What's it all about?

>Bill, I thoroughly enjoyed your company at Capital District Games, and I
>think you're an O.K. guy, but I don't agree with you here.

Same here Ringo, but we don't agree here, and never will. )See my response to
the earlier post).
I read about 1/4 of what John wrote and stopped. It's just too long a debate to
type out here. Maybe make for some good beer tent conversation next time we
meet.
Your too experienced to understand, and I'm too inexperienced to understand.
Bill
Mar a bha, mar a tha,
mar a bhitheas gu brath,
ri tra'ghadh's ri lionadh.


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------------------------------

Date: 23 Sep 1999 21:29:47 GMT
From: [e-mail] (SENDMEMORESPAM)
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: What's it all about?

>>I've said it before...  if you haven't stood in a Grade 1 circle,

So if a certain nameless grade2 piper (theoretical of course) goes off on a
tangent about how crappy a certain brand of pipes are, just because he doesn't
like the guy who makes them, AND he's never even seen or heard that brand of
pipes, does he deserve to be listened to? Is his opinion more or less valid
than a non-competing player whose heard them?
Being a big grade2 player doesn't  automatically make someones opinion valid.
Bill
Mar a bha, mar a tha,
mar a bhitheas gu brath,
ri tra'ghadh's ri lionadh.


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 21:30:33 GMT
From: "Ron Bowen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: THE ONTARIO CHAMPION SUPREME BALL

What nonsense!  Your posts are generally limited to a pot shot just before
you duck for cover behind Royce.  Maybe it's time to put your intelligence
on the line, unless what we've seen so far is totally representative of your
best work.

What is your beef?  Nobody in a competitive band is going to rip down their
pipes in the middle of the season to fiddle a set of reeds into playing
order.  If it's plug 'n play, well maybe.  For whatever reason the reeds in
question were not.  Nobody is slamming them, or you.  But all of a sudden
you appear in this thread calling people liars and throwing your lame ("both
of his brain cells") insults around.

Nobody is using anybody.  I was on this NG well before Lindsay appeared.  I
haven't changed my approach one bit.  And I don't intend to, for you or
anybody else.

Royce is articulate, however not all of his information is logical or
consistent.  He got nailed for this in Ed's review of his book as well.
Rightly or wrongly, I attribute this to him repeating what others have said
rather than drawing on his own experience or understanding.  I don't have a
general axe to grind with Royce, just here and there where I find huge gaps
in his wisdom.  I do think he's helpful to a lot of newcomers, however he
should be a bit more careful commenting on matters that are far removed from
his direct knowledge or experience.

Lastly, Lindsay is a long-standing good friend.  He is as genuine and down
to earth as anyone I've ever met.  A real gentleman.  He is perhaps the most
active teacher in the Niagara Region and is also teaching a street band in
the area.  He, along with other members of the band, has made a tremendous
commitment to play with the 78th in Toronto and dedicates a ton of time,
energy, and money in pursuit of his love of the music.  Of course he would
defend his band in the face of mindless cheapshots from Royce.  Any man who
wouldn't isn't a man.

In closing, maybe you should lay off the pipe awhile yourself.  It seems to
be fogging your perception.

Ringo

<[e-mail]> wrote in message news:7scd2r$gpc$[e-mail]...
> In article <hxWF3.20863$[e-mail]>,
>   "Ron Bowen" <[e-mail]> wrote:
Ron Wrote > > Mark, why would you call Lindsay and/or myself a liar?  This
is totally inappropriate and I believe you owe both Lindsay and myself an
apology.  Please check my post, same thread, September 21/1999 9:32  I got
the reeds from Lindsay, who got them from.... no I'm not going to drag
another name into this.  I couldn't tell you if Lindsay ever played them or
if he used them as tree ornaments.


Mark wrote > The river of knowledge/information does not flow from you
alone.  Here's the lay of it:  I know for a fact Lindsay was dorking around
with them for weeks at the same time Ken Eller had the other set in Oberlin
for his reed seminar.  If Lindsay says he doesn't recall having them in his
possession, I'll accept that - worked for Bill Clinton.

Ron Wrote > >It really doesn't matter.

Mark wrote> It certainly does matter.  Integrity matters.  You are being
used by Lindsay to run interference while both of his brain cells work
overtime to concoct some other "bait and switch" spew.  It's a vicious
cycle:  Lindsay spews, Royce retorts logically - citing specifics, you
intervene, Lindsay spews, Royce retorts logically....

 You're going to give yourself an ulcer.  Take the load off.  Relax.  Fly to
Bangkok and do an eight-ball.  Have the LBFMs rub your feet and shoulders
while you chase the dragon for three days.  You'll return
with a renewed sense of indifference towards Lindsay's spew.

> > Y'know Mark, I'm trying to make a little peace here,
>
 Then tell your pit-chihuahua to take a pill.
>
 The other option is to simply step aside until the dust settles.
>
> Mark
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Share what you know. Learn what you don't.



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Date: 23 Sep 1999 22:21:25 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Rojo2G)
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: Out of Chaos....

This is a big newsgroup. I don't think we have to set parameters and exclude
people. Do we really only want people like us? The NG as a gated community?
There are a lot of people who do. I like diversity and to some degree adversity
without it we're stuck with ourselves.
This quote comes to mind:
Better to be with a sober Cannibal than a drunken Christian.
Rojo


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Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 21:48:29 GMT
From: "Ron Bowen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: Out of Chaos....

Bill, I get such a kick out of you!  Having met you twice has helped.
You're a hell of a nice guy.  But sometimes I feel that you jump from thread
to thread, from post to post, and from one side of the fence to the other.
Don't get me wrong.  As they say, that don't make you a bad guy!

By your definition, there has been some tremendous flaming going on.  Maybe
you're just immune to it.  You must be because you stepped over the line at
least once or twice yourself, not with me, but with a couple of your
internet "buddies".

Anyway, Bill, this is good.  You and I are having an exchange where we
probably don't agree with each other and you have refrained from calling me
a blue-faced, bald headed, scum sucking, rat licking, candy ass jam tart.
Thank you!

Good Piping, Buddy (and I mean it)
Ringo
SENDMEMORESPAM <[e-mail]> wrote in message
news:[e-mail]...
> >Ron Bowen <[e-mail]> wrote in message
> >news:YatG3.49504$[e-mail]...
> >> Well, this certainly has been a lively place lately!
>
> Ron,
> I must admit to being baffled by your comments. I don't see the NG is any
> wilder than usual, except for John and Lindsay shaking things up.
> Is anyone out there confused by the difference between "debate" and
"flame"? It
> sounds like it to me. A flame is a personal insult. Debate is what John,
> Lindsay and myself have been doing. Nothing malicious, just an exchange
amongst
> internet buddies.
> The fact is that this NG is not for everyone, those that don't like the
> goings-on can choose not to read it. Hope you don't leave because I enjoy
your
> posts, but "it is what it is".
> Bill
> Mar a bha, mar a tha,
> mar a bhitheas gu brath,
> ri tra'ghadh's ri lionadh.
>



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Date: 23 Sep 1999 22:06:15 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Rojo2G)
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: Happy Birthday

>It's a hot request for pipes in my neighborhood!
That and amazing grace is all I get requests for. I've been working out Mary
Had a Little Lamb to stretch my repertoire.
Make bagpipes out of balloons for all the 5 and 6yr old wannabes

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Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 23:26:05 +0100
From: "lsrapm" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: Out of Chaos....

Ron Bowen wrote

>
> This place is what we make it, and right now, it's not worth being here.
I
> certainly wouldn't recommend it to anyone.
>
> Ringo
>

Thanks, Ron. You do have a way of putting your finger on the problem.....

What you are suggesting, if I take you right, is that we should look at
OURSELVES for the problem - not other people. I think it is very valuable
for us all to do this from time to time. It's so easy to build up a rosy
picture of ourselves as being much better than we really are - and also to
be overly protective of our own status in the piping community. (How many
touchy pipers do YOU know?) The competition ethos that many of us live in
probably helps to breed such an attitude. Even in non-competitive bands you
will find this attitude but for another reason, ie. they are afraid to admit
how much they don't know or how badly they really play.

I've actually had a very heartening experience tonight. A piper recently
joined my band who has been playing for many years in other bands (in
America, as it happens) but whose fingering technique was very suspect. I
had to tell him that he would not be able to compete with the band until he
improved his technique. In the same breath, I offered to take him privately
at my home every week during the winter to bring him on if he was still
interested in competition. I really expected him to back off and say that he
was too ingrained in his ways to change. But no, he has been really keen to
get stuck in and sort his fingers out. We had our first session tonight. I
didn't spare him anything. I took him through four parts of a tune and took
them apart bar by bar, itemising every error and then devising exercises for
each one. He lapped it up and went off full of enthusiasm, telling me that
this was the first time in ten years that a P/M has gone to the trouble of
wanting to try and sort him out. Time will tell if he will succeed, but it
sure made my night.

He will not make Grade 1, but he will compete and will enjoy his piping much
more because he will know he is doing it right. This guy is representative
of many on this NG who listen in and only occasionally, if ever, post a
tentative question in the hope of getting some help from what they read
here.

John, you say you can't learn anything about how to play on this NG. You're
wrong. I remember a discussion I started way back last winter about the
precise timings of doublings. During that discussion I got many emails, one
in particular from a guy who was very, very grateful because he had realised
that he had always been timing his doublings wrong and the discussion has
put him right. That's just one example of what can be achieved here. And I
certainly would never profess to be any sort of expert. But I can help other
people who can't play as well as I can. And I am just as keen to learn from
people better than me - like yourself and Ringo, etc. It's just a matter of
always being honest and only giving advice about things you are confident
about and always being ready and willing to be corrected.

Who have we got here?

1. Top professional soloists (Jim, Hugh, Murray...etc. who rarely say
anything (and who can blame them?)

2. Other top band players like yourself and Ringo. From what I've read so
far, Ron comes over (IMHO) as a guy who is genuinely interested in what
other pipers are doing and in offering help where possible. (I WILL get to
bump into you one day, honest). John... now you puzzle me. You are a hell of
a player but I don't know really what you get out of the NG. You talk about
two categories of people here - the casual piper and the top level
competitor. You don't seem to be aware that there is a VERY large audience
of pipers in the middle who take the art very seriously and who are also
listening in. I'm one of them. (And it can be just as hard down here as it
is for you)

3. Royce (in a class of his own)

4. Other competing pipers (anywhere from Grade 2 to Grade 4) who are just
here to talk with other pipers and offer advice and info whenever the
opportunity arises.

5. Non-competing pipers for a wide variety of reasons, not all because
they're not good enough, but most of which are here because they want to
learn more about their art, or just swap experiences. (Don't we all?)

6.  Hmmm... now...... how shall I shall say this?......... Ah!
yes!........... Kieffer and Co........

What I am saying is - we are a very diverse group. And it's only through
civil conversation and mutual respect (are you listening, R....?) that we
will enrich our experience. Isn't that why we are here?

Chris Eyre









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End of bagpipe-digest V1 #86
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