ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/andina/archive/andina.9801

Internet Message Format | 1998-01-30 | 20KB

From: Ken Webster <[e-mail]>
Date: 06 Jan 1998 14:29:57 +1100 (EDT)

Hi Andinos


Now my summer holidays are over and I have had time to devote to music
I now have a few more questions for this wonderful list.

First I tried doing a little work with the icus part of El Sicuri
and got the following.  I just can't seem to get the next bit.
Can any of you help me out a little with this?

44       3
  \     / \
     22 22   2


       3
      / \
21 112   343


       5
      / \
43 334   565


  4 44   5   6
 /    \ / \ /
5      5   6



Secondly I was given a CD with Vasija De Barro which I have been
learning to play on quena.
With my poor to none existent Spanish I think it
translates as (Vessel Of Clay) ?

But what is the title referring too?
Is it the pot in which the quena is sometimes played
or a reference to people as clay under the potters (Gods)
hand or perhaps something else?

I would like some input from some of you who are more
familiar with Andean culture.



Thirdly I have started to look for discographies on the net to see if I can
get a few recordings for which I already have written music.
I have copies of Thevenots and Sukays books as well as some other material.
So some suggestions and or URLs would be most helpful.

I already found :

Los Kjarkas at  http://www.cochabamba.co.jp/kjarkas.html
Sukay       at   http://www.sirius.com/~sukay/catalog.html



Forth question .
What is used to colour or stain bamboo? I tried wood stain but this
seems to be repelled by the oils in the bamboo.



Saludos



        |U|                                                      ||||||
        | |                                                      XXXXXX
        | |                                                      ||||||
        | |                                                       |||||
        | |                                                        ====
        |O|                Ken Webster                             ||||
        |O|                                                         |||
        |O|                                                         |||
        | |                [e-mail]                      |||
        |o|                                                          ||
        |O|                                                          ||
        |o|                                                          ||
        |_|                                                          ||



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From:    "Capt David M. Sonntag" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (andina) Re:
Date: 05 Jan 1998 23:56:01 -0500

>Secondly I was given a CD with Vasija De Barro which I have been
>learning to play on quena.
>With my poor to none existent Spanish I think it
>translates as (Vessel Of Clay) ?
>
>But what is the title referring too?
>Is it the pot in which the quena is sometimes played
>or a reference to people as clay under the potters (Gods)
>hand or perhaps something else?
>
>I would like some input from some of you who are more
>familiar with Andean culture.

Vasija de Barro refers to the custom in andean cultures of mumifying
their dead and burying them in large earthenware jars.

The lyrics to the song, at least the way we sung it when I played with
Llaktayku:

Yo quiero que a mi me entierren, como a mis antepasados
En el vientre obscuro y fresco, de una vasija de barro

Cuando la vida se pierda tras una cortina de anios
Viviran a flor de tiempo amores y desenganios.

Rougly translated:

I want them to bury me, as my ancestors were
In the dark, cool belly, of a clay jar

When my life gives out, through a curtain of years
My loves and disappointments will flower throughout time.



5' DAVE SONNTAG    Capt, USAF Bioenvironmental Engr:  AFIT/CIMI
   ||||||||||||    PhD Program, Toxicology.  U of Cincinnati
   GATNNOS EVAD 5' [phone] (FAX) 558-4397
                   PGP Key:  http://w3.one.net/~sonntag/davekey.asc




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From: "Ken Webster" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (andina) Re:  - Reply
Date: 06 Jan 1998 16:41:06 +1100

Dave wrote :

>Vasija de Barro refers to the custom in andean cultures of mumifying
>their dead and burying them in large earthenware jars.

>The lyrics to the song, at least the way we sung it when I played with
>Llaktayku:

>Yo quiero que a mi me entierren, como a mis antepasados
>En el vientre obscuro y fresco, de una vasija de barro

>Cuando la vida se pierda tras una cortina de anios
>Viviran a flor de tiempo amores y desenganios.

>Rougly translated:

>I want them to bury me, as my ancestors were
>In the dark, cool belly, of a clay jar

>When my life gives out, through a curtain of years
>My loves and disappointments will flower throughout time.



Thanks Dave for helping dispel my ignorance.
Much appreciated=21=21
I didn=27t have the words nor would I have understood them
without your translation which I hope will help me play this
with appropriate expression.

Bye

Ken Webster      websterk=40lic.gov.au

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From: Joel Fentin <[e-mail]>
Subject: (andina) VASIJA DE BARRO
Date: 05 Jan 1998 22:28:43 -0800

I have also heard it this way:

VASIJA DE BARRO

Yo quiero que a mi me entierren
como a mis antepasados
en el vientre oscuro y fresco
de una vasija de barro

Arcilla cocida y dura
alma de verdes collados
barro y sangre de mi pueblo
sol de mis antepasados

de ti naci y a ti vuelvo
arcilla, vaso de barro
con me muerte yazgo en ti
en tu polvo enamorado
--
Joel Fentin    tel: [phone]    FAX: [phone]

email: [e-mail]     web: http://efm.simplenet.com

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From: [e-mail] (Marcelo Villacres [ESRI-Redlands])
Subject: (andina) El Sikuri
Date: 06 Jan 1998 07:45:29 -0800

Doing this from memory...


Siku reference:

    1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8
    b   g   e   c   a   f#  d   b
      1   2   3   4   5   6   7
      a   f#  d   b   g   e   c


            EL SIKURI (E minor)
            (Bolivian folklore)

I:

   3 33 3   3 32 22 3    5           5   6
  /      \ /         \  / \         / \ / \
44        3           34   4 43 33 4   5   5

65 55   6   7   6     3   3   3   3
     \ / \ /   / \   / \ / \ / \ / \
      5   6   6   5 6   4   4   4   4


II:

   5    3   5
  /    / \ / \
44   33   4   5  (repeat)

65 55   6   7   6     3   3   3   3
     \ / \ /   / \   / \ / \ / \ / \
      5   6   6   5 6   4   4   4   4



Marcelo

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From: [e-mail] (Marcelo Villacres [ESRI-Redlands])
Subject: (andina) Vasija de Barro & bamboo
Date: 06 Jan 1998 07:54:58 -0800

Vasija de barro is a danzante from Ecuador, composed by Benitez & =
Valencia
if memory serves me well. Its lyrics make reference to a custom some of
the pre-incan tribes in northern Ecuador had of burying the dead in =
earthen=20
vessels with all their possesions and food.

It seems to me that if you are going to stain bamboo you must do so
before it is oiled. Once oiled it may not work. You can, though, apply
lacquer to it any time.

Marcelo

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From: Juan Carlos Lafosse <[e-mail]>
Subject: (andina) Letra de un huayno
Date: 06 Jan 1998 15:31:20 -0300

Estimados amigos:
Es un gusto recibir sus mensajes y los molesto con un pedido.
Para nuestro coro (que es peque=F1o, pero trata de progresar) estamos =
buscando la letra del huayno que conocemos como "Guadalquivir" cuya =
primera parte figura al pi=E9
Si saben donde puedo conseguirla lo agradecer=EDamos especialmente.
Solo conocemos la primera parte, para la cual hay un arreglo a tres =
voces muy agradable, pero la segunda no hemos podido encontrarla por =
ning=FAn lado.
Cordialmente,

Juan Carlos Lafosse
Tigre - Prov. de Buenos Aires
Argentina
[e-mail]

La primera parte del huayno Guadalquivir dice as=ED:

Estas pensando que ya me voy
pero a tu lado me quedar=E9
Y si tu te vas de mi,=20
la cacharpaya se ir=E1 con vos

De mis ojitos han de brotar
aguaceritos tanto llorar
Muy enga=F1oso tu coraz=F3n
no dice ni si ni no

....

La segunda parte no hemos podido hallarla.


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: (andina) andean music in los Angeles????
Date: 06 Jan 1998 23:38:16 -0700

Hi list anybody know a place in Los Angeles where
JRCordon can go to learn andean music???
thanks.
Manuel.

>To: JRCordon <[e-mail]>
>From: [e-mail]
>Subject: Re: charango
>
>>I'm interested in learning how to play the charango. Can you recomend a place
>>or a book. I live in Los Angeles.
>>
>>
   ======================================================================
   ANDEAN WIND INSTRUMENTS FROM RUMILLAJTA AND PANOZO
   http://www.xmission.com/~mnavarro
   MANUEL NAVARRO 960.E 4200.S OGDEN.UTAH.84403 USA.
   801-627-5613
   ======================================================================


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (andina) VASIJA DE BARRO
Date: 07 Jan 1998 01:01:04 -0600 (UTC -06:00)

This is one of my very favorite songs.  While in Ecuador this summer,
I picked up a booklet called "Cantares" that has Vasija de Barro in
it.  It has a date of composition for the song of 1950.  Its a
danzante, music by the famous duo Luis A. Valencia and Gonzalo
Benitez, lyrics by Jorge Carrera Andrade (a famous poet), Hugo
Aleman, Jaime Valencia, and Jorge Enrique Adoum (another famous
poet).  The lyrics in the booklet are as you have them with one
more verse and one word different, as follows:

On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Joel Fentin wrote:

> I have also heard it this way:
>
> VASIJA DE BARRO
>
> Yo quiero que a mi me entierren
> como a mis antepasados
> en el vientre oscuro y fresco
> de una vasija de barro

Cuando la vida se pierda
tras una cortina de an~os
viviran a flor de tiempo
amores y desengan~os

> Arcilla cocida y dura
> alma de verdes collados
> barro y sangre de mi pueblo  ["de mis hombres"]
> sol de mis antepasados
>
> de ti naci y a ti vuelvo
> arcilla, vaso de barro
> con me muerte yazgo en ti
> en tu polvo enamorado
> --
> Joel Fentin    tel: [phone]    FAX: [phone]
>
> email: [e-mail]     web: http://efm.simplenet.com

By the way, the booklet I have has it written out in 6/8 time,
with an Em-G-B7-Em progression.

Its a beautiful song, one I have always thought of as the unofficial
national anthem of Ecuador.  I probably have 6 or 7 versions of it
on various recordings, each more beautiful than the others.

John
John Simmons
Natural History Museum
University of Kansas


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From: "Erwin E. Villalva" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (andina) andean music in los Angeles????
Date: 07 Jan 1998 09:19:28 -0800

>Hi list anybody know a place in Los Angeles where
>JRCordon can go to learn andean music???
>thanks.
>Manuel.
>

Manuel... I saw a flyer for a charango instructor at McCabes guitar shop
(Santa Monica).

... didn't write it down, but maybe that's a start.

Erwin

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (andina) andean music in los Angeles????
Date: 07 Jan 1998 14:19:09 -0700

Goooodd!!!thanks for the info!.
Manuel.


>>Hi list anybody know a place in Los Angeles where
>>JRCordon can go to learn andean music???
>>thanks.
>>Manuel.
>>
>
>Manuel... I saw a flyer for a charango instructor at McCabes guitar shop
>(Santa Monica).
>
>... didn't write it down, but maybe that's a start.
>
>Erwin
>
>-
>
>
>
   ======================================================================
   ANDEAN WIND INSTRUMENTS FROM RUMILLAJTA AND PANOZO
   http://www.xmission.com/~mnavarro
   MANUEL NAVARRO 960.E 4200.S OGDEN.UTAH.84403 USA.
   801-627-5613
   ======================================================================


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From: "Ken Webster" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (andina) El Sikuri - Reply
Date: 08 Jan 1998 09:09:34 +1100



>>>> Marcelo Villacres =5BESRI-Redlands=5D <mvillacres=40esri.com> 01/07 =
>2:45 am >>>
>Doing this from memory...
>
>
>Siku reference:
>
>    1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8
>    b   g   e   c   a   f=23  d   b
>      1   2   3   4   5   6   7
>      a   f=23  d   b   g   e   c
>
>
>            EL SIKURI (E minor)
>            (Bolivian folklore)
>
>I:
>
>   3 33 3   3 32 22 3    5           5   6
>  /      =5C /         =5C  / =5C         / =5C / =5C
>44        3           34   4 43 33 4   5   5
>
>65 55   6   7   6     3   3   3   3
>     =5C / =5C /   / =5C   / =5C / =5C / =5C / =5C
>      5   6   6   5 6   4   4   4   4
>
>
>II:
>
>   5    3   5
>  /    / =5C / =5C
>44   33   4   5  (repeat)
>
>65 55   6   7   6     3   3   3   3
>     =5C / =5C /   / =5C   / =5C / =5C / =5C / =5C
>      5   6   6   5 6   4   4   4   4



Thanks Marcelo

I tried this last night and it seems pretty close to Savia Andina Classics
CD certainly is much better than what I had.  I was starting on C rather
than B.  Interestingly I found that I can get some notes to register on my
tuner using an acoustic pickup on the front of a speaker box.  In this
case the first note registered as a very flat C which lead me astray from =
the beginning so perhaps this method is not very useful after all.=20

Bye

Ken Webster    websterk=40lic.gov.au

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From: "Ken Webster" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (andina) Vasija de Barro & bamboo - Reply
Date: 08 Jan 1998 09:44:09 +1100


Marcelo wrote

>It seems to me that if you are going to stain bamboo you must do so
>before it is oiled. Once oiled it may not work. You can, though, apply
>lacquer to it any time.


The oils I mentioned are the natural ones already in the bamboo.
I use a bamboo common around Bathurst Australia which has
short internodes only suitable for icus.

Usually I let it air dry for 2 to 4 weeks and then cure it in the oven for
2 hours on the lowest setting.  I read that this dries out the bamboo
and causes the natural oils in it to flow through out the bamboo and=20
coat it.  On cooling the oils harden forming a satin finish helping to
preserve the bamboo.  Incidentally bamboo can be shaped
(bent or straightened) while hot.  The hardening oils set the new shape.
This method is used in making that quena like Japanese flute which
I can=27t think how to spell (Saka something) or toy bow and arrows for my
son.

Some Andean bamboo instruments are coloured but I have not been
able to get a colour stain to take either before or after curing the =
bamboo.

Perhaps this is just the nature of the species I=27m using.  I don=27t =
know if Andean bamboos have this problem.  Does anyone know any tricks
or suggestions for colouring bamboo?


Bye

Ken Webster    websterk=40lic.gov.au

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: (andina) WIRACOCHA
Date: 13 Jan 1998 11:20:26 -0700

There is one song of Rumillajta call Wiracocha,also
Arak Pacha play a song in wich they talk about wiracocha like
a Slavedriver for the indian people.
Anybody know more about Wiracocha??
thanks.
manuel.
   ======================================================================
   ANDEAN WIND INSTRUMENTS FROM RUMILLAJTA AND PANOZO
   http://www.xmission.com/~mnavarro
   MANUEL NAVARRO 960.E 4200.S OGDEN.UTAH.84403 USA.
   801-627-5613
   ======================================================================


-



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From: [e-mail]
Subject: (andina) testing
Date: 13 Jan 1998 11:24:24 -0700

123
I guess some changes in the majordomo

[e-mail]
[e-mail]


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From: [e-mail] (Marcelo Villacres [ESRI-Redlands])
Subject: Re: (andina) WIRACOCHA
Date: 13 Jan 1998 10:44:57 -0800

Wiracocha is the mythical figure of the Creator and comes from the Tiwanaku
culture in Bolivia. As the Inca culture followed they adopted this figure
as well. Legend has it that Wiracocha would come back, a bearded figure
emerging from the ocean. When the Spaniards arrived to the coast of present
day Ecuador, the Incas believe the prophecy had been fulfilled and welcomed
them. And we all know what Wiracocha did...

Marcelo

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (andina) WIRACOCHA
Date: 13 Jan 1998 12:29:07 -0700

So that why,Arak Pacha,talk about Wiracocha like
slavedrivers for indian people???I am not sure!!
Manuel.


>Wiracocha is the mythical figure of the Creator and comes from the Tiwanaku
>culture in Bolivia. As the Inca culture followed they adopted this figure
>as well. Legend has it that Wiracocha would come back, a bearded figure
>emerging from the ocean. When the Spaniards arrived to the coast of present
>day Ecuador, the Incas believe the prophecy had been fulfilled and welcomed
>them. And we all know what Wiracocha did...
>
>Marcelo
>
>-
>
>
>


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From: [e-mail] (Marcelo Villacres [ESRI-Redlands])
Subject: Re: (andina) WIRACOCHA
Date: 13 Jan 1998 11:26:14 -0800

> So that why,Arak Pacha,talk about Wiracocha like
> slavedrivers for indian people???I am not sure!!
> Manuel.
>=20
Yes, Wiracocha... or the Spaniards became slave drivers, among other =
things.

Marcelo

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From: Joel Flores <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (andina) WIRACOCHA
Date: 13 Jan 1998 21:43:32 -0400

May be because they do not know a lot about wiracocha
Joel

>So that why,Arak Pacha,talk about Wiracocha like
>slavedrivers for indian people???I am not sure!!
>Manuel.
>
>
>>Wiracocha is the mythical figure of the Creator and comes from the Tiwanak=
u
>>culture in Bolivia. As the Inca culture followed they adopted this figure
>>as well. Legend has it that Wiracocha would come back, a bearded figure
>>emerging from the ocean. When the Spaniards arrived to the coast of presen=
t
>>day Ecuador, the Incas believe the prophecy had been fulfilled and welcome=
d
>>them. And we all know what Wiracocha did...
>>
>>Marcelo
>>
>>-
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>-




            =89=F0 LC MANAGEMENT & CONSULTING  =D0=89
                rue des pretres st-severin, 4
                F-75005 PARIS (FRANCE)
                phone :      + 33 1 432 581 46
                fax :        + 33 1 432 504 37


                     [e-mail]
                            [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (andina) WIRACOCHA
Date: 14 Jan 1998 11:51:50 -0700

Who?,Arak Pacha or the indian people???

Manuel.


=======================================================
May be because they do not know a lot about wiracocha
Joel







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From: "Jim Low" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (andina) Charango Tutor
Date: 31 Jan 1998 14:30:44 +0000

I have been trying to get hold of a copy of Jorge Laura's charango tutor for
the past two years without success.  When Rumilliajta were in London on tour
in December Jorge told me that he had not been able find any remaining
copies and his original publisher is no longer able to do any reprints.

Is anyone willing to sell me their copy of book and tape second hand or make
copies of them for me?

By the way I understand that Jorge has written a second book and may still
be looking for help in publishing it.  If any one on the list might be able
to help please let me know and I will pass on details to him.

Plesae contact me directly by email at [e-mail] on these matters
rather than through the list.

Jim Low

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