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From: owner-abolition-usa-digest@lists.xmission.com (abolition-usa-digest) To: abolition-usa-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: abolition-usa-digest V1 #120 Reply-To: abolition-usa-digest Sender: owner-abolition-usa-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-abolition-usa-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk abolition-usa-digest Monday, April 26 1999 Volume 01 : Number 120 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:04:19 -0400 From: Proposition One Committee <prop1@prop1.org> Subject: Re: (abolition-usa) Re: AP: Journalists Protest NATO Attack I enthusiastically sign on to Peter Weiss's succinct and powerful statement below. Ellen Thomas >Regardless of how people feel about the ius ad bellum aspects of the NATO bombing, there should now be loud and effective protests about the violations of ius in bello principles, i.e. the use of depleted uranium bombs, the failure to discriminate between military and civilian targets, the bombing of factories only a small part of whose production is military and, of course, the bombing of the TV station as such, and particularly without complying with the Hague Art. 26 obligation to warn of impending bombardment. Peter Weiss > >> >> April 23, 1999 >> Journalists Protest NATO Attack >> By The Associated Press PROPOSITION ONE COMMITTEE P.O. Box 27217, Washington, DC 20038 USA 202-462-0757 (phone) | 202-265-5389 (fax) http://prop1.org | prop1@prop1.org - - To unsubscribe to abolition-usa, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe abolition-usa" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 14:06:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Timothy Bruening <tsbrueni@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> Subject: (abolition-usa) Arming the KLA One option in Kosovo would be to supply weapons, such as anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles, to the Kosovo Liberation Army so that it could resist the Serb ethnic cleaning operation more effectively. What do you think of this option? - - To unsubscribe to abolition-usa, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe abolition-usa" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 14:06:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Timothy Bruening <tsbrueni@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> Subject: (abolition-usa) Nuking Serbia My brother suggests that we nicely ask the Russians to nuke Serbia on the grounds that Serbia's ethnic cleansing operation has given Slavs a very bad name. What would happen if someone nuked Serbia, and do you know anyone who wants to nuke Serbia? - - To unsubscribe to abolition-usa, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe abolition-usa" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 15:49:01 -0700 From: "David Crockett Williams" <gear2000@lightspeed.net> Subject: (abolition-usa) Stop The Bogus Wars, April 29 LA, May 1st DC The war in Yugoslavia is threatening a nuclear confrontation with Russia and the potential of NATO airstrikes on nuclear facilities in Yugoslavia with a disaster worse than Chernobyl while the KLA-CIA drug trade finances the drug war on the American people, especially targeting the African American populations, to get the money to finance covert operations all over the world to destabilize indigenous populations so that American/transnational corporations can exploite energy, mineral and agricultural resouces, "The American Way" of modern times. Now there is a chance to do something about it. Impeachment procedings and now the Balkan war are overshadowing congressional hearings called for by Congresswoman Maxine Waters on the CIA confessions in the DoJ Inspector General's Volume 2 Report on CIA drug smuggling involvement. There is a March on Washington DC on some these topics on May 1st (speakers schedule below). http://www.march99.com Check it out. http://www.boguswarondrugs.org Among info on this site is poster on the April 29th Street March in South Central Los Angeles (7th anniversary of the "riots") to stop the drug war with focus on CIA's now acknowledged complicity in the drug trade and the targeting of African Americans in the (Bogus) War on Drugs. More info on this topic (aside from the march) http://www.copvcia.com and http://www.macronet.org/cia/ciadrugs.html URGENT MESSAGE from the President/Founder of Macrocosm USA concerning: The CIA, Drugs, Nuclear Weapons, Iraq, Russia, the Impeachment & the African AmericanCommunity. We must stop the wars and redirect the resources to healing the Earth before it is too late for life as we know it to survive increasingly devastating global climate change, pollutions, weapons of mass destruction, terrorism, domestic violence, and the ozone layer depletion which threatens destruction of all oceanic phytoplankton (half of Earth's oxygen supply and the beginning of the oceanic foodchain). Info and ideas to do this: - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Global Emergency Alert Response http://www.angelfire.com/on/GEAR2000 ********************************************************* gear2000@lightspeed.net GENERAL AGENCY SERVICES David Crockett Williams 661-822-3309 20411 Steeple Court, Tehachapi CA 93561 USA ********************************************************* The Global Peace Walk 1999-2000 1999: 22APR Taos, NM, ---> Santa Fe 26APR 2000: 15JAN San Francisco --> New York 24OCT 19SEP* Washington, DC, Ceremony Rededicating The Washington Monument as a Symbol of Peace. *3rd Tuesday of September is annual opening of UN General Assembly & International Day of Peace October 24th is United Nations Day "GLOBAL PEACE NOW!" Global Peace Zone2000 Remove the scourge of war from future generations http://www.egroups.com/list/global-peace-walk FOR ONE HUMAN FAMILY: Love All, Serve All *DC date subject to change by May 1, 1999 WASHINGTON DC MARCH '99 INFORMATION: From: Mike Ruppert <mruppert@copvcia.com> To: CIA Drugs list <cia-drugs@onelist.com> Subject: [CIA-DRUGS] FW: MARCH ' 99 SPEAKER LIST Date: Sunday, April 25, 1999 11:58 AM From: "Mike Ruppert" <mruppert@copvcia.com> - -----Original Message----- From: GARLAND FAVORITO [mailto:GARLANDF@email.msn.com] Sent: Saturday, April 24, 1999 9:33 PM To: Michael Ruppert; Scott Lauf; John Bennett; Bob Djurdevics; Cliff Kincaid; Steve Meyers; Steve Ulrey; Tom Adkins Subject: MARCH ' 99 SPEAKER LIST MARCH ON WASHINGTON '99 - SPEAKER LIST Sat. May 1st, 12-5 p.m. White House Ellipse, 17th & E St. For Truth, Justice, Peace, Security & Freedom 12:00-12:10 p.m. Introductions and Benediction 12:10-12:30 p.m. Bob Barr- China, Kosovo and our National Security U.S. Congressman, (7th-GA), House Manager, author of H. Res. 304 12:30-12:50 p.m. Bill Triplett - How Bill Clinton Compromised American Security for Chinese Cash U.S. Senate Investigator, co-author of the Year of the Rat, 12:50- 1:10 p.m. Herb Titus - The Unconstitutional President 1996 Vice Presidential Candidate for U.S. Taxpayers Party 1:10 - 1:30 p.m. Cliff Kincaid (for Accuracy in Media) - Unreported Crimes Against the Constitution Founder, America's Survival; co-author, Michael New: Mercenary or American Soldier 1:30 - 1:50 p.m. Bob Djurdjevic - Five Weeks of America's Infamy: Why Clinton Cannot Win the Illegal War He Started Founder, Truth in Media, author and columnist; global, geopolitical and economic affairs expert 1:50 - 2:10 p.m. Steve Meyers - Are You or Have You Ever Been a Member of the New World Order/Council on Foreign Relations? Editor of Exegesis, British Foreign Affairs Committee Secretary during the Thatcher Administration 2:10 - 2:30 p.m. Garland Favorito - The Protectors of Bill Clinton Exposed Citizens for Honest Government, Georgia Chapter Coordinator 2:30 - 2:50 p.m. Michael Ruppert - The Real Impeachment Scorch Editor of From the Wilderness, Former L.A.P.D. Narcotics Officer 2:50 - 3:10 p.m. Pat Matrisciana - Arkansas' Dirty Little Secret Produced Clinton Chronicles, Death of Vince Foster, Mena Cover-up, 60 Minutes Deception 3:10 - 3:30 p.m. Steve Miroy - How Bill Clinton Can Stay in Office After the Year 2000 Clinton Investigative Commission 3:30 - 3:50 p.m. Tom Adkins - How We Lost America and How We Can Save It Founder, CommonConservative.com, author of 25 Snappy Comebacks to Stupid Impeachment Soundbites 3:50 - 4:10 p.m. Andrew Amirault - America's Future Journalist, activist and organizer of the March on Washington '99 4:10 - 4:30 p.m. Steve Ulrey - A New Campaign A Concerned American Citizen 4:30 - 4:50 p.m. Pat Cooksey - Speak Out for the Sake of Freedom Founder, True Blue Patriots 4:50 - 5:00 p.m. Some Historically Important Announcements www.march99.com - - To unsubscribe to abolition-usa, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe abolition-usa" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 20:44:42 -0400 From: Peace through Reasonn <prop1@prop1.org> Subject: Re: (abolition-usa) Arming the KLA At 02:06 PM 4/25/99 -0700, Timothy Bruening wrote: >One option in Kosovo would be to supply weapons, such as anti-tank and >anti-aircraft missiles, to the Kosovo Liberation Army so that it could >resist the Serb ethnic cleaning operation more effectively. What do you >think of this option? Personally, I think this is an option proposed by a mind dominated by the Ministry of Truth (see, George Orwell's "1984") Did you know that until last year the KLA was on the State Department's list of "Terrorist Organizations"? Timothy, are you a US citizen? If so that might account for your suggestion. For an alternative point of view check out: http://prop1.org/protest/serbia/9904.serbialv.htm Thomas ____________________________________________________________ * Peace Through Reason - http://prop1.org -Convert the War Machines! * ____________________________________________________________ - - To unsubscribe to abolition-usa, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe abolition-usa" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:57:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Timothy Bruening <tsbrueni@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> Subject: (abolition-usa) A Kosovo Karate Peacekeeping Force I am a Taekwondo Karate student at Rodness' Karate Club in Davis, CA. Its affiliated with the International Taekwondo Council. This Thursday, I will test for my Orange Belt. The Tenets of Taekwondo are Courtesy, Integrity, Perseverance, Self-Control, and Indomitable Spirit, and the Taekwondo students take an oath to "observe the tenets of Taekwondo, respect instructors and seniors, never misuse Taekwondo, be a champion of freedom and justice, and build a more peaceful world". Do any of you take Karate? I propose a Kosovo Karate Peacekeeping Force, consisting of Black Belt (the highest belt) Karate experts. It would be unarmed, as Milosevic wants, but be able to subdue aggressors with their karate talents. I understand that Black Belts could even defeat armed personnel if they can take the armed personnel by surprise. The Karate Peacekeepers could also teach the Albanians how to defend themselves without weapons. - - To unsubscribe to abolition-usa, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe abolition-usa" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 18:09:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Timothy Bruening <tsbrueni@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> Subject: Re: (abolition-usa) Arming the KLA At 08:44 PM 4/25/99 -0400, you wrote: >At 02:06 PM 4/25/99 -0700, Timothy Bruening wrote: > >>One option in Kosovo would be to supply weapons, such as anti-tank and >>anti-aircraft missiles, to the Kosovo Liberation Army so that it could >>resist the Serb ethnic cleaning operation more effectively. What do you >>think of this option? > >Personally, I think this is an option proposed by a mind dominated by the >Ministry of Truth (see, George Orwell's "1984") > >Did you know that until last year the KLA was on the State Department's >list of "Terrorist Organizations"? No. >Timothy, are you a US citizen? If so that might account for your suggestion. How did you know? I was born a U.S. citizen in 1966. To me, arming the KLA sounded better than invading or continuing to bomb Yugoslavia, or allowing the Serbs to continue their ethnic cleaning campaign, although I haven't figured out how to ensure that the KLA doesn't use our weapons to kill innocent Serbs. - - To unsubscribe to abolition-usa, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe abolition-usa" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 21:44:44 -0400 From: Peace through Reasonn <prop1@prop1.org> Subject: Re: (abolition-usa) Arming the KLA At 06:09 PM 4/25/99 -0700, Timothy Brueningwrote: >At 08:44 PM 4/25/99 -0400, Peace throught Reason wrote: >>At 02:06 PM 4/25/99 -0700, Timothy Bruening wrote: >>One option in Kosovo would be to supply weapons, such as anti-tank and >>anti-aircraft missiles, to the Kosovo Liberation Army so that it could >>resist the Serb ethnic cleaning operation more effectively. What do you >>think of this option? >Personally, I think this is an option proposed by a mind dominated by the >Ministry of Truth (see, George Orwell's "1984") You didn't respond to this, Timothy. >Did you know that until last year the KLA was on the State Department's >list of "Terrorist Organizations"? >>No. Don't take my word for it, check it out. >Timothy, are you a US citizen? If so that might account for your suggestion. >>How did you know? I was born a U.S. citizen in 1966. Just a lucky guess, based on the observation that you are regergitating the party linr. >To me, arming the KLA sounded better than invading or continuing to bomb >Yugoslavia, or allowing the Serbs to continue their ethnic cleaning >campaign, although I haven't figured out how to ensure that the KLA doesn't >use our weapons to kill innocent Serbs. Or even innocent Albanians, as some have alledged is a practice of the KLA. As far as the "ethnic cleansing goes ... in light of the fact that your response was so rapid, I don't suppose that you've had time to check out the URL I suggested -- http://prop1.org/protest/serbia/9904.serbialv.htm ____________________________________________________________ * Peace Through Reason - http://prop1.org -Convert the War Machines! * ____________________________________________________________ - - To unsubscribe to abolition-usa, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe abolition-usa" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 22:31:06 EDT From: DavidMcR@aol.com Subject: (abolition-usa) Re: 3258-Allison/War Between US and Russia? Johnson's Russia List #3258 25 April 1999 davidjohnson@erols.com ******* #1 Boston Globe 25 April 1999 [for personal use only] Could the US and Russia wind up at war? By Graham Allison Graham Allison is director of Harvard's Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs. Could NATO's current bombing campaign against Serbia lead to deadly conflict between the United States and Russian military forces? Until last week, my answer was a categorical no. But then I went to Moscow. The primary reason for my trip was to speak to a conference of 6,000 participants from across Russia about mortgages and housing. For the past 18 months, a Harvard project I head has been providing technical assistance to Moscow's Mayor Yuri Luzhkov and his Moscow Mortgage Initiative. After my presentation, Mayor Luzhkov asked that I come see him that evening. We discussed Moscow's progress in developing a market-based mortgage system. We assessed Russian macroeconomic policies. As I prepared to leave, he changed the subject. ''Is the American government thinking carefully about the consequences of its decisions in Kosovo?'' he asked. To him, the United States appeared surprised by the not unlikely consequences of its actions: Milosevic's reaction to Rambouillet, dismissal of the threats of bombing, defiance of the bombing campaign, increased support from the Serbian people, and ferocious attack on the KLA and atrocities that created the flood of refugees to Albania and Macedonia. ''Are American policy makers analyzing carefully scenarios from the current situation to the end of this story?'' he asked. ''Specifically, have they considered the possibility that intensifying pressures of public opinion in Russia as well as the United States could create domestic dynamics that lead to direct military conflict between the US and Russia?'' I responded that the foreign policy community was trying to analyze all scenarios. I noted President Yeltsin's warning about such a danger but discounted it as ''noise.'' I said that I had never seen a credible scenario for such a catastrophic conclusion and offered a judgment that such an outcome was almost inconceivable. ''If the bombing fails, as it appears likely to do, could NATO launch a ground invasion to liberate Kosovo?'' he asked. I agreed that it was quite possible. ''In that case, what would Russia do?'' He reiterated his condemnation of Milosevic and his barbarism. He identified no significant national interest in Serbia. He has opposed Communist-sponsored proposals for security guarantees to Serbia or even confederation. He reaffirmed his belief that Russia should not become involved in this war. ''But if NATO ground forces began invading Serbia,'' he asked, ''could the Russian government maintain the embargo on the supply of arms to Serbia?'' Unlikely, in his view. Russian arms, perhaps including S-300 surface-to-air missiles capable of shooting down US aircraft, would be supplied to Serbia. By what route? The mayor noted last week a convoy of military vehicles, fuel, and humanitarian assistance to Serbia that had been stopped by the Hungarian government at its border. Hungary would undoubtedly deny ground shipments of arms to Serbia. ''What would Russia do then?'' he asked. ''Could it not deliver arms by air transport? The United States took that route in supplying Berlin during the blockade of 1948.'' Would NATO allow Russian aircraft to violate Hungarian airspace and deliver arms to Serbia? Or would they choose to shoot down Russian planes instead? ''If NATO were to shoot down Russian planes, how would Russia respond? Would Russia stand down? Or would Russia retaliate by attacking NATO aircraft, or the bases from which NATO aircraft that shot down Russian airplanes had flown?'' Russia could, of course, do this with non-nuclear missiles, he said. This conversation went on into the night. Throughout, the mayor was not threatening but analytic. In his view, allowing mad momentum to push politics to such an end would be ''crazy.'' He recalled the logic of Greek tragedy in which the actors are moved by a compelling, self-destructive dynamic to results they would never have chosen rationally. Remember 1914. As I left the mayor's office I thought back to an uncomfortable historical analogy. In the Cuban missile crisis of October 1962, US and Soviet leaders stood ''eyeball to eyeball,'' each with the unilateral power of mutual annihilation in hand. On the final Saturday of that crisis, a Soviet surface-to-air missile in Cuba shot down an American U-2 aircraft, killing its pilot. The Kennedy administration had considered that scenario and prepared its response. It would retaliate by bombing Soviet SAM sites in Cuba - an action that in their estimate would have killed at least scores of Soviet soldiers. At this brink, President Kennedy paused. That evening, before proceeding with the retaliatory attack, he undertook an extraordinary initiative to provide Khrushchev an escape, including significant concessions - sufficient to persuade Khrushchev to withdraw Soviet missiles without war. Even at this late date, after Milosevic's atrocities and four weeks of steady NATO bombing, it may not be too late to pause for a serious strategic reassessment of the path along which we are now being driven. ******* >> - - To unsubscribe to abolition-usa, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe abolition-usa" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 22:31:26 EDT From: DavidMcR@aol.com Subject: (abolition-usa) John Simpson reports from Belgrade In a message dated 4/25/99 4:48:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 jim_forest@compuserve.com writes: <<=20 1999.04.25 Telegraph (UK) =20 What signal does this send? =20 John Simpson reports from Belgrade =20 LESS than 12 hours after the attack that destroyed his television station, Zarko was back at work, satelliting our report about the attack to London. "I was lucky," he said, with the lopsided grin he seems to show only when he is under great strain. "My shift ended at 11 on Thursday night." =20 I had seen what had happened to the control room where he used to work. If his shift had ended at 4am, as it normally did, it would have been his body in the mass of rubble and wiring on the floor instead of somebody else's. But Zarko lived to broadcast another day. Together with the rest of Serbian Television, he had shifted his entire operation to the other side of Belgrade. =20 On the television set in the corner of the room, the usual diet of programmes was going out unchanged: Slobodan Milosevic droning on unedited and unquestioned; the night's crop of explosions; news readers using such words as "barbarians", "neo-fascists", "bandits" and, of course, "evil"; patriotic videos about what official spokesmen call "this small, brave country"; and fruity tenors belting out popular Serbian classics. If Nato's bombing of the television station was intended to encourage a change of programming style, it has not yet succeeded. =20 When, shortly after 2am on Friday, my room in the Hyatt Hotel lurched with a series of explosions, my first thought was for Zarko. When, in the greyness of Friday's dawn, my team and I judged it safe enough to drive round to the television station to film the aftermath, it was Zarko I was thinking about as the firemen clambered over the heaps of rubble, listening for the sound of human voices. =20 He had been the only person at the television station who was actively pleasant to foreigners; the only one who would put himself out to help you; the only one who seemed to care whether or not your report reached its destination, and was glad when it did. =20 It was Zarko, his eyes red with fatigue and several days' stubble on his chin, who listened with patience to my complaints about the high temperature in the dreadful little studio, now rubble too, where I had to do my live question-and-answer sessions into the Nine O'Clock News. It was he who managed to find an electric fan to bring the temperature down to the merely unbearable; who, as a last resort, called up the large, bad-tempered, blonde make-up woman to put some powder on my sweating face. =20 I saw the make-up woman again on Friday morning. Or, to be more exact, I saw her foot. It was sticking out at a strange angle from the heap of crumbled brick and plaster that was all that was left of her room. The leather of the shoe had been discreetly slipped across the little toe, I noticed, to ease the discomfort of a bunion. =20 Serbian Television is indeed part of the central nervous system of Milosevic's control over this country, just as Nato says. It has made it far easier for him to ensure public complacence over the stripping out of Kosovo's ethnic Albanian population. =20 It has, by judicious editing and selection, managed to give its viewers the impression that only Nato's governments are in favour of the war, while ordinary public opinion abroad supports "this small, brave country". =20 It has buoyed them artificially with the belief that Russia is about to enter the war on their side, and has hinted that the Russians have supplied them with all sorts of secret weapons. It has assured them that dozens of Nato aircraft have been shot down. For years now, it has hidden from them all information about the terrible crimes that people acting in Serbia's name have committed in the former Yugoslavia. By any measure of honesty and decency, Serbian Television is the tame instrument of a nasty system that made it a natural target for Nato bombs and missiles. But should the television station, as opposed to its transmitters, have been hit? Should the make-up woman have paid the ultimate price for the propaganda of people so high up in the system that she would never have been allowed to put powder on their foreheads. =20 IT IS as hard, sitting here in Belgrade, to follow the shifting thought processes of Nato as it is to understand what is going on down at the other end of the football pitch when you have a seat behind one of the goals. Nevertheless, from our admittedly distorted perspective here, it looks as though a battle may have gone on within Nato over the question of the television station. =20 From time to time over the past few weeks, several of us have been getting quiet hints from London and the United States: don't go to the television station tonight, or, if you have to go, be careful to get away early. Most of the Serbian producers and translators who work for Western television organisations here have friends in Serbian Television, so the whispers were always passed on. =20 At one stage it seemed that the matter had finally been decided. Air Cmdre David Wilby, at a Nato briefing, warned Serbian Television that, unless it took three hours of Western programming in the daytime and another three hours in the evening, it would be a target. =20 Soon after that Air Cmdre Wilby stopped appearing at the briefings and a more reassuring voice gave us the impression that the threat had been lifted. If there were to be an attack on Serbian Television, we assumed the transmitters would be taken out. =20 And, then, on Wednesday, came another private whisper. The Pentagon has won the battle; don't go to Serbian Television tonight. We did, because we had to. Zarko played our report over to London by satellite and it was clear that he knew, as everyone else here did, that there had been a further warning. "It won't happen," he had once said to me. "Nato says it will hit the transmitters. We'll be OK." =20 It stood to reason. This is a moral campaign, fought out in the hearts and minds of people across Europe and north America to protect the innocent from persecution. Ordinary people are not its targets: the target is the repressive system of Milosevic. =20 Faced with a choice between hitting a television studio, filled with people even during the night, and striking at the almost unmanned transmitters, we assumed that Nato would choose the transmitters. =20 Nato's airstrikes are presumably intended to be signals to the Serbian people. The trouble is, these signals are hard to read. Nato insists that Milosevic and his military structure are the enemy; and, yet, for the first 32 days, bridges and factories were hit as well as military targets. =20 It was not until the 33rd and 34th days that targets closely associated with Milosevic himself were attacked: the building where his party had its offices, and the Uzica Street palace, which was his official residence. At last it seemed that a pattern that ordinary people here could understand was being established. =20 And, then, on the 35th day, Nato decided to hit the television station, and a middle-aged blonde with bunions was among the dozen or more who died. There must, people say here, be a reason for it all. But they haven't yet worked out what it is, and Nato isn't helping them. =20 John Simpson is World Affairs Editor of the BBC =20 =A9 Copyright of Telegraph Group Limited 1999. >> - - To unsubscribe to abolition-usa, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe abolition-usa" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 23:17:40 EDT From: DavidMcR@aol.com Subject: Re: (abolition-usa) Arming the KLA In a message dated 4/25/99 5:07:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tsbrueni@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us writes: << Subj: (abolition-usa) Arming the KLA Date: 4/25/99 5:07:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time From: tsbrueni@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us (Timothy Bruening) Sender: owner-abolition-usa@lists.xmission.com Reply-to: abolition-usa@lists.xmission.com To: abolition-usa@lists.xmission.com, post-grns-usa-forum@greens.org One option in Kosovo would be to supply weapons, such as anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles, to the Kosovo Liberation Army so that it could resist the Serb ethnic cleaning operation more effectively. What do you think of this option? >> Timothy, The KLA is not a reliable force in the first place. The New York Times described it recently as a Marxist/Leninist group on the fringe of things. (It had earlier been supported by the old Stalinist regime in Albania to wage small struggles against the Yugoslavs). What we will see in Kosovo is not a liberation movement but a replay of Afghanistan. You will be giving to the Muslim-led KLA exactly the weapons which can be used against the West most easily. Washington will drop the KLA when it has finished with them as it did the Kurds and Shiites in Iraq. God help any foolish enough to thing the US or England have any genuine interest in their cause. The KLA would, if they had the power, just as swiftly purge the Serbs as the Serbs have purged the Kosovos. What Kosovo needs is a formula for peace, not a formula for arming anyone with new weapons. Peace, David McReynolds - - To unsubscribe to abolition-usa, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe abolition-usa" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 23:27:45 -0700 From: erippy@jps.net Subject: Re: (abolition-usa) Arming the KLA On 25 Apr 99,, Timothy Bruening wrote: > One option in Kosovo would be to supply weapons, such as anti-tank and > anti-aircraft missiles, to the Kosovo Liberation Army so that it could > resist the Serb ethnic cleaning operation more effectively. What do you > think of this option? > - -- I think it's been done. I've seen @ least a couple of reports that the KLA have recently been getting lots of weapons, and German mercenaries. I've seen one report of US-made wepaons in their hands. - -- Ed Rippy - - To unsubscribe to abolition-usa, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe abolition-usa" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 21:02:59 -1000 From: Richard N Salvador <salvador@hawaii.edu> Subject: Re: (abolition-usa) Arming the KLA David McReynolds: "What Kosovo needs is a formula for peace, not a formula for arming anyone with new weapons." well said, David. You are a wise man! according to Jan Oberg's sincere analysis (Transnational Foundation for Peace and Future Research) "Rambouillet-A Process Analysis," the KLA has no legitimate authority. Oberg says that the KLA was never endorsed by the Kosovo-Albanian Parliament or by the legitimate leader of the Kosovo republic and that many KLA members were indicted for murders. Only a US-led "peace" negotiation process--which does nothing to promote genuine peace in that region--allegedly invited some of these KLA people to attend the peace negotiations. A "victory" in this instance would perhaps only allow for a short-term, military solution with long-term consequences that might match McReynold's scenario of another potential bloodbath. What Oberg also proposed was for more mobilization of peace professionals, peace practitioners, and peace-keepers in the same breadth as the impressive mobilizations for war. Oberg comments, "any peace-related activity would have looked at the basic problems in Kosovo which are: deep poverty, overall economic crisis, corruption, lack of human trust, manifest human alienation, miserable schools, miserable transport, miserable health facilities, miserable media, miserable politics - everywhere... [this, in order to] "side with the citizens living there, promis[ing] them a better future through aid and co-operation" and "offer[ing] Belgrade and the Kosovo Serbs and Albanians an alternative future, an alternative perspective - and thus cultivat[ing] and empower[ing] alternative leaders." Just some thoughts from the Pacific Ocean, which is hardly a "pacific" place at all! Richard Salvador University of Hawaii Honolulu, Hawaii On Sun, 25 Apr 1999 tsbrueni@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us writes: > > One option in Kosovo would be to supply weapons, such as anti-tank and > anti-aircraft missiles, to the Kosovo Liberation Army so that it could > resist the Serb ethnic cleaning operation more effectively. What do you > think of this option? > > >> > > Timothy, > The KLA is not a reliable force in the first place. The New York Times > described it recently as a Marxist/Leninist group on the fringe of things. > (It had earlier been supported by the old Stalinist regime in Albania to wage > small struggles against the Yugoslavs). What we will see in Kosovo is not a > liberation movement but a replay of Afghanistan. You will be giving to the > Muslim-led KLA exactly the weapons which can be used against the West most > easily. > Washington will drop the KLA when it has finished with them as it did the > Kurds and Shiites in Iraq. God help any foolish enough to thing the US or > England have any genuine interest in their cause. The KLA would, if they had > the power, just as swiftly purge the Serbs as the Serbs have purged the > Kosovos. > What Kosovo needs is a formula for peace, not a formula for arming anyone > with new weapons. > > Peace, > David McReynolds > > - - - To unsubscribe to abolition-usa, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe abolition-usa" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 03:56:24 EDT From: DavidMcR@aol.com Subject: (abolition-usa) Re: Chomsky on Kosovo << Chomsky Replies re Kosovo From the ZNet Forum System via a link at http://www.antiwar.com Chomsky was asked first about support among progressives for the position that "military intervention is needed to stop Milosevic from committing genocide, regardless of whether NATO's motivations are pure," with comparisons about "WWII being necessary to stop Hitler, even if the U.S. did not have truly humanitarian objectives." As well as, "Is the Yugoslavian government genocidal" and "Will the NATO intervention have the effect of stopping Milosevic and/or saving the people of Kosovo from extermination?" I don't want to say anything about the people you are referring to, because I don't know, but it seems to me reasonably clear that if we think the matter through, the arguments you report are untenable, so untenable as to raise some rather serious questions. First, let's consider Milosovec's "genocide" in the period preceding the NATO bombings. According to NATO, 2000 people had been killed, mostly by Serb military, which by summer 1998 began to react (with retaliation against civilians) to guerrilla (KLA) attacks on police stations and civilians, based from and funded from abroad. And several hundred thousands of refugees were generated. (We might ask, incidentally, how the US would respond to attacks on police stations and civilians in New York by armed guerrillas supported from and based in Libya). That's a humanitarian crisis, but one of a scale that is matched or exceeded substantially all over the world right now, quite commonly with decisive support from Clinton. The numbers happen to be almost exactly what the State Department has just reported for Colombia in the same year, with roughly the same distribution of atrocities (and a far greater refugee population, since the 300,000 resulting from last year's atrocities are added to over a million from before). And it's a fraction of the atrocities that Clinton dedicated substantial efforts to escalating in Turkey in the same years, in the ethnic cleansing of Kurds. And on, and on. So if Milosovic is "genocidal," so are a lot of others -- pretty close to home. That doesn't say he's a nice guy: he's a monstrous thug. But the term "genocidal" is being waved as a propaganda device to mobilize the public for Clinton's wars. Second, the US ("NATO") intervention, as predicted, radically escalated the atrocities, maybe even approaching the level of Turkey, or of Palestine in 1948, to take another example. I wouldn't use the term "genocide" for such operations -- that's a kind of ultra-right "revisionism," an insult to the memory of the victims of the Holocaust, in my opinion. But it's very bad, and it suffices to undermine the claim that "military intervention is needed to stop Milosevic from committing genocide," on elementary logical grounds. About "WWII being necessary to stop Hitler," that's not what happened at all. The US/UK were rather sympathetic to Hitler (and absolutely adored Mussolini). That went on to the late '30s, with varying defections in the latter stages (much the same was true of Japanese fascism). When Hitler invaded Poland, Britain and France went to war -- called "a phony war," because they didn't do much. When Hitler attacked them, it became a real war. When Germany declared war on the US, after Japan had attacked mainly US military facilities in US colonies that had been conquered (in one case, with extraordinary violence) half a century before, the US went to war. No one went to war "to stop Hitler." There's always more to say: history is too complex to summarize in a few lines. But the basic assumptions you describe are so far off the mark that discussion is hardly even possible. Chomsky was also asked: "To what extent could US resort to military force in the Balkans be related to Caspian Sea oil and concerns over declining reserves, uncertainty about Russia and its former empire, the threat to Western interests of increasing conflict in the Balkans, the desire to increase the Pentagon budget, or maybe other factors, since the professed humanitarian concerns seem `dubious.'" On the last, "dubious" is too kind. If a Mafia don who runs the local branch of Murder Inc. shows some kindness to children, the humanitarian concerns don't rise to the level of "dubious" -- and that's even more so if he shows his humanitarian concerns by kicking the kid in the face. We can put that aside, as sheer hypocrisy. More plausible, in my view, is just what Clinton, Blair, etc., have been saying from the start. It's necessary to ensure the "credibility of NATO." But that phrase has to be translated from Newspeak. The US is not concerned with the "credibility" of Italy or Holland: rather, with the US (and its British attack dog). And what does "credibility" mean? Here we can return to the Mafia don. If someone doesn't pay protection money, the don has to establish "credibility," to make sure others don't get funny ideas about disobeying orders. So what Clinton, et al., are saying is that it's necessary to ensure that everyone has proper fear of the global enforcer. I think it is also useful to bear in mind the Clinton strategic document called "Essentials of Post-Cold War Deterrence" that's quoted in an article of mine in Z a year ago on "Rogue States," the same one Steve Shalom reviewed in more detail in a recent post. It advocates that the US portray itself as "irrational and vindictive if its vital interests are attacked," "part of the national persona we project to all adversaries": "It hurts to portray ourselves as too fully rational and cool-headed," and surely not subordinate to treaty obligations or conditions of world order. "The fact that some elements" of the US government "may appear to be potentially `out of control' can be beneficial to creating and reinforcing fears and doubts within the minds of an adversary's decision makers." That makes sense for a rogue superpower, with a near monopoly on means of violence. The "humanitarian cover" has been used by violent states throughout history: we'd probably find it was true of Genghis Khan, if we had records. It was surely true of the Crusaders who left a hideous trail of death and destruction. In fact, about the only clear exceptions I know are in the Biblical tales, which call for outright genocide -- the Carthaginian solution -- with no credible motive. In the background is the dedicated US assault against any institution of international order: the UN, the World Court, even the WTO when it gets out of hand. That's been going on for almost 40 years, for reasons that are explained very clearly and would be taught in every school in the country and headlined in every newspaper and journal, under conditions of authentic freedom: they don't follow our orders, so they can get lost. That's why the US, in this case, compelled its more reluctant NATO allies to reject even "authorization" from the UN. A very important observation leaked through the NY Times on April 8, in one of the last paragraphs of a story on an inside page by Steven Erlanger, their Belgrade correspondent, who has a record of reliability. Possibly the most important bit of information about what has been happening. He writes that "just before the bombing, when [the Serbian Parliament] rejected NATO troops in Kosovo, it also supported the idea of a United Nations force to monitor a political settlement there." If Erlanger's report is true, then it provides very dramatic evidence of US intentions: like the bombing of Iraq in December, it is another brazen attack against the institutions of world order, since the Serbian Parliament would be right, and Washington wrong, on the alternatives of a UN vs. a NATO force. If the report is true, then the last shreds of legitimacy for the US/NATO operation disappear. I hadn't seen this reported before; maybe others have. It surely merited a front-page headline, the day before the bombings began, not a hidden phrase two weeks later -- though that's better than nothing. I'd be intrigued to know if others have come across similar reports. The other factors you mention could be real, but I think they are secondary. The US (NATO) operation is likely to exacerbate most of the problems. And expanding the Pentagon budget is not a value in itself. The kind of expansion that will follow this episode is largely a waste, from the point of view of the Pentagon and the large sectors of the "private" economy that rely on it for R&D. -- To unsubscribe, send email to SocialistsUnmoderated-request@debs.pinko.net with "unsubscribe" in the Subject line. Send complaints that can't be resolved by unsubscribing to doumakes@novia.net. - - To unsubscribe to abolition-usa, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe abolition-usa" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------ End of abolition-usa-digest V1 #120 *********************************** - To unsubscribe to $LIST, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe $LIST" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.