WHEN SPIDERS UNITE, THEY CAN TIE DOWN A LION -Ethiopian Proverb=09=09 =
=09=20
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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 06:21:58 -0400
From: Carole Gallagher <clgallagher@igc.org>
Subject: (abolition-usa) Re: Keep this listserve professional
Peace Action - National Office wrote:
>
> This is the abolition caucus! A friendly reminder to keep to the topic
> even as loosely defined as it is, at hand - abolition! There are
> plenty of internet chat rooms and web pages to discuss the Starr report
> and its legal aspects.
>
> -
> Thank you for setting some limits. I've just opened a David McReynolds missive and don't think this listserve should be a forum for therapy and angst, just the facts related to abolition. Something in a professional league, y'know? And no pompous chest thumping by pseudo-Alpha males who use their "peace movement" work as a reason to live without guilt for their real-time activities. Awfully tiresome. No verbal pollution, please!
Carole Gallagher
American Ground Zero
clgallagher@igc.org
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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 07:01:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joseph Gerson <afsccamb@igc.apc.org>
Subject: (abolition-usa) Discussing Clinton's Resignation is appropriate in this conference
9/14
The following is a personal, not organizational, statement :
Friends, whether or not you completely agree with David, he is certainly
right that discussing the fate of the American Caeser, the Commander in
Chief of U.S. military forces - including nuclear - is right. How long ago
was it that people across the globe were wondering whether or not the U.S.
had attacked Afghanistan and Sudan with missiles had more to do with
Monicagate than U.S. elite readings of U.S. national interests?
Well before the U.S. constitutional crisis, our collective hopes of
achieving negotiation of a treaty by the year 2000 to eliminate nuclear
weapons were more than dim (something we're going to have to face in our
name, slogan and means) because we have yet to build the popular movement
needed to force politicians to inaugurate a non-nuclear order. This includes
the US AND other nuclear powers. There ain't no way we're going to get a
treaty with a "No-Nothing" dominated Congress, more sophisticated
imperialists in Congress and elsewhere in Washington's seats of power, and
with this president (wounded or otherwise.)
Impeachment of Clinton is unlikely because it is not year clear that the
committed "high crimes and misdemeanors" described in the U.S. constitution,
and because most Congressional Republicans would prefer to have an even
weaker Democratic president (which is not to say that Clinton hasn't been a
Republican attempting to pass as a Democrat - whatever that is these days).
Republicans certainly do not wish to give Gore the advantages of incumbency
as we approach the year 2000 - even if the possibility of later impeaching
him for fund raising irregularities could lead to a Gingrich presidency
(Constituinally, the Speaker of the House is next in line.)
Unfortunately, it is not clear that anyone has or will have the the leverage
to force Clinton out of the White House (especially as there is increasing
talk of censoring Clinton rather than impeaching him.) While the cigar may
have come as a shocking surprise to most people in the U.S., for the most
part they have read Clinton clearly since his sexual exploits became a
subject of political debate during the 1992 election. Tragically, Clinton's
values, foibles, and commitment to yuppie-dom economics are more American
than many of us would wish, or at least that's what the initial polling in
the wake of Starr's atrocity seem to indicate.
Should Clinton be forced to resign, we should not expect Gore (the prime
advocate of the MX missile - remember?) to be any better than Clinton in
terms of moving the U.S. from a doctrine in which preparations for nuclear
war remain "a cornerstone of our policy", more accurately understood as
nuclear terrorism. I recall a conversation with Daniel Ellsberg a couple of
years ago in which he described Gore as "the most dangerous man in
Washington." At his DNC speech last Thursday he emphasized his commitment to
"continuity" to the policies of these past six years.
Joseph Gerson
At 06:42 PM 9/13/98 EDT, DavidMcR@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 9/13/98 6:39:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>panukes@igc.apc.org writes:
>
><< Subj: Re: (abolition-usa) Fwd: Response to Counsel's Rebuttal
> Date: 9/13/98 6:39:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time
> From: panukes@igc.apc.org (Peace Action - National Office)
> Sender: owner-abolition-usa@lists.xmission.com
> Reply-to: abolition-usa@lists.xmission.com
> To: abolition-usa@lists.xmission.com
>
> This is the abolition caucus! A friendly reminder to keep to the topic
> even as loosely defined as it is, at hand - abolition! There are
> plenty of internet chat rooms and web pages to discuss the Starr report
> and its legal aspects.
>
> >>
> Sorry but the point is not well taken. Whether we like it or not, (and I am
>very distressed about it), the issue of foreign policy, Bill Clinton, and the
>Starr report are news and are linked in ways we can't dodge. Abolition 2000
>doesn't live in a gilded cage - it is part of a real world in which events are
>occuring which do touch on things such as the Starr report.
>
>Sincerely,
>David McReynolds
>
>-
> To unsubscribe to abolition-usa, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com"
> with "unsubscribe abolition-usa" in the body of the message.
> For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
> "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
>
>
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 11:29:44 -0400
From: Carole Gallagher <clgallagher@igc.org>
Subject: Re: (abolition-usa) Discussing Clinton's Resignation is appropriate in this conference
Regarding a potential resignation, I agree tactical agendas must be
discussed. Anyone who wishes to come to grips with cigar issues might do
so in private or in chat rooms.
Let's not stain this listserve - that's all I meant to say.
Carole Gallagher
American Ground Zero
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:28:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Peace Action - National Office <panukes@igc.apc.org>
Subject: Re: (abolition-usa) Fwd: Response to Counsel's Rebuttal
No offense,
but this is a predictable response. I even considered asking in
advance not to receive responses outlining how the Star Report and
various legal aspects of it relate to the President's ability to
execute his office/foreign policy/and therefore abolition.
Bruce
> In a message dated 9/13/98 6:39:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> panukes@igc.apc.org writes:
>
> << Subj: Re: (abolition-usa) Fwd: Response to Counsel's Rebuttal
> Date: 9/13/98 6:39:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time
> From: panukes@igc.apc.org (Peace Action - National Office)
> Sender: owner-abolition-usa@lists.xmission.com
> Reply-to: abolition-usa@lists.xmission.com
> To: abolition-usa@lists.xmission.com
>
> This is the abolition caucus! A friendly reminder to keep to the topic
> even as loosely defined as it is, at hand - abolition! There are
> plenty of internet chat rooms and web pages to discuss the Starr report
> and its legal aspects.
>
> >>
> Sorry but the point is not well taken. Whether we like it or not, (and I am
> very distressed about it), the issue of foreign policy, Bill Clinton, and the
> Starr report are news and are linked in ways we can't dodge. Abolition 2000
> doesn't live in a gilded cage - it is part of a real world in which events are
> occuring which do touch on things such as the Starr report.
>
> Sincerely,
> David McReynolds
>
> -
> To unsubscribe to abolition-usa, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com"
> with "unsubscribe abolition-usa" in the body of the message.
> For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
> "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.