Cappie:
: I have a few comments about your posting. : I too believe that Christ taught us to share our goods with one another and to live a life that was centered on the spiritual rather than the material. "For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also".
: I also believe that this is a conveniently overlooked issue in the Church. He didn't mean just to skim off the top, did he?
Everett Citizen:
So far we have no dispute. He did not mean to skim off the top in helping people (like 'corporate charity' i.e. tax write off).
Cappie:
: Here is where I take issue with you. I don't believe you can call Jesus a Socialist. You can't call him a capitalist either. Remember when Jesus tells the lawyer to "Render unto Caeser the things that are Caeser's , and to God the things that are God's"? I'm sure the Roman government did things Jesus didn't like, but did he say not to support it? NO. I think he was telling us that the governments of men were things to endure.
Everett Citizen:
Jesus was put to death by this government for doing exactly that: opposing the will of the government. That 'render unto ceasar' thing is ever popular with those who side with oppressive governments or institutions, but the real meaning of that passage is a rebuke of money. He asks who is on the coin, and when they answer 'ceasar' he says 'pay the tax with it'. Money is unimportant to Jesus, but justice is very important, as is real action in helping your fellow man. On this point he is very clear throughout his teachings. (see matthew 22:20)
Cappie:
: The Jewish people were looking for a messiah, and many thought this Messiah would help overthrow the government. Jesus didn't.
: He didn't speak out against the slavery in his day either, except to admonish masters to treat their slaves well. He didn't call for action against the government.
Everett Citizen:
Does "Break every yoke" ring a bell? Do you here me calling for action against the government? I call for working people to unite and fairly and democratically devise a new system based on satisfying human needs, not the profits of a greedy few. Your system of economic distribution is the antithesis of this, cappie.
Cappie:
: If you want to say that Christ taught us share what we have with others unselfishly I agree. If you want to say that Christ taught us to place money at the bottom of our list of values I agree.
Everett Citizen:
Then why do you call yourself 'cappie' and defend the system that rewards greed and the never ending covetousness of 'expanding markets' and predatory aquisitions?
Cappie:
But I don't agree with calling him a Socialist( especially with the S capitalized.)
: And I won't call him a Capitalist either.
Everett Citizen:
Fair enough. I don't consider myself a capital S socialist. I dislike labels, anyhow. I would rather state, "this is what I believe" instead of, "I'm a _______." And I believe that the capitalist system is one of exploitation and greed and that you cannot have an upper crust without driving many into the lower crust.
Cappie:
: Now if Mike Bacon eats meat and believes that his conscience is clear as far as Christianity is concerned---thats his business. And who knows maybe Mike even gives to the poor and shares his belongings. Charity is not the sole property of the Socialist.
Everett Citizen:
Let's not forget, Mike Bacon brought up the Jesus thing, so I responded with some things to make him think. That is what debating boards like this are for! I am not judging anyone, as your title seems to imply, only stimulating debate and thought.
And you are correct in saying "Charity is not the sole property of the Socialist" because in a fair and equitable system, charity would be as obsolete as profit. I don't know of anyone you would consider a socialist who strives for a system where charity is even necessary. Charity is a product of poverty. Poverty is a product of injustice and greed. Injustice and greed are NOT just products of the capitalist system, they ARE the capitalist system.
Mike, The Everett Citizen
Crearemos nueva vida
