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P = pause/unpause, S = abort conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1351 06-15-88 07:41 (Read 145 times) from: GARY CORBIN to: ALL subject: NEW COMPUTER Can anyone help with some advise as to the best deal in a 286 clone? I would like a 20 or 30 Meg hard drive, and one 1.2 Meg floppy. Also VGA graphics. Any help offered would be appreciated. Thankyou Gary Corbin --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1352 06-15-88 18:46 (Read 162 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: BOB BLAIR (Rcvd) subject: R: R: SEAGATE ST-251 Reply to #1350 Bob, I have never heard of the SUPERPROM. What's the benefit? Frankly, when DOS 3.4 comes out and supports drives up to 512MB, I'll be a happy guy. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1354 06-16-88 06:47 (Read 159 times) from: BOB BLAIR to: JOE VINCENT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: SEAGATE ST-251 Reply to #1352 JOE, SUPERPROM is a product from ONTRACT (the Disk Manager people) that plugs into the PROM sockets on your motherboard. The info they gave me when I called ( it is mentioned in one of their doc files with DM ) was it supports most disk drives out there as "standard IBM" drives in the tables. Aside from the need for partitioning larger than 32MBs, it does away with the need for the DM device driv ( they sai The thing comes in several different sizes dependent upon the make and model of your machine. Cost $100 approx. What do you think of the Model 70 now that it has been announced? Still going to try for a purchase? Bob >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1352 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1360 06-16-88 18:31 (Read 167 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: BOB BLAIR (Rcvd) subject: R: R: SEAGATE ST-251 Reply to #1354 SUPERPROM sounds interesting. If I keep my AT (don't think I can bear to part with it -- it's like an old buddy), I wouldn't mind paying the $100 just to clean things up. Re: the PS/2 Model 70 -- being a genuine IBM bigot, I love it! Of the models available, I would probably opt for the 20mhz box and wait for the 3rd-party market to provide larger disks. However, that 25mhz baby looks pretty good, and the 20mhz Model 80, with the price reduction to approximately the price of a small home, is also attractive. It's not "if," it's "when." On July 1, IBM will announce a "trade-in" policy for XTs and ATs on PS/2s. The BoCoEx Index as of June 3 on an AT Model 339 is $3,400! Can you believe that? If IBM's trade-in allowance is even close to $3,400 (not likely, but one can hope) and considering the discount I get on hardware, the Model 70 would be VERY affordable. Watch this space! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1352 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1364 06-17-88 06:47 (Read 164 times) from: BOB BLAIR to: JOE VINCENT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: SEAGATE ST-251 Reply to #1360 We will eagerly await any developments in the PS/2 #70 market. Please post your travails. You give me some food for thought 'cause I hadn't heard about the trade-in policy. Thanks. Yeah, the SUPERPROM sounds good. I need to take this box apart and discover the correct size PROM so I can try an order. Bob >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1352 reply #3 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1353 06-15-88 20:29 (Read 152 times) from: SYSOP to: GABE CECI (Rcvd) subject: R: ALTOS CONSULTANT Reply to #1348 Altos is a nice, solid, high speed Unix system. It is also very expensive. If you buy hard disks as part of a standard priced Altos system, you will be ripped off with per-megabyte prices about 4 times that of a PC network. The question is, what is the custom software written in, and could it be easily converted to a PC environment. Keep something in mind: You can either buy a new car for $15,000 all in one chunk, or you can buy a beater and put $20,000 into it in the next 5 years. In other words, if the old software is 100% transportable to a new Altos system, it might be reasonable to spend $10,000+ to avoid years of conversion headaches. I have been receiving a newsletter from an Altos users group and distributor. I will try to dig one up and give it to you. They have classified ads with used Altos systems, plus cheap aftermarket hard drives for Altos, etc. You might also want to try calling Lodden Technology in Michigan at 313-685-3877. Ask for John Lodden, and tell him I sent you. Explain the situation and I am SURE he will have some interesting opinions on the situation. It is worth the long distance call. He might be able to help your friend out of the jam. Here it is: Computer Support of Sioux City, Ltd. Phone number 712-277-0095. They publish the newsletter. Give them a call and explain the situation. bob --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1357 06-16-88 11:28 (Read 148 times) from: STEVE SHATTUCK to: GABE CECI (Rcvd) subject: R: ALTOS CONSULTANT Reply to #1348 Gabe, You didn't give the type of altos system, but as long as you know the controller type, you should be able to expand the disk capacity. This could mean replacing the 40meg with a larger one, or the controller may have a provision for a second drive. If the response time on the altos (I assume it is a Xenix 68000 system) is OK, that should do it. Steve >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1353 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1358 06-16-88 18:11 (Read 145 times) from: GABE CECI to: SYSOP (Rcvd) subject: R: R: ALTOS CONSULTANT Reply to #1353 Bob, thanks for the quick reply. I'll put the people in touch with both sources and then I'll post whatever results they get. My only interest in this is to keep someone who isn't too knowledgeable [even less than I am] from being ripped off and having a bad taste about computer people. Gabe. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1353 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1359 06-16-88 18:13 (Read 147 times) from: GABE CECI to: STEVE SHATTUCK (Rcvd) subject: R: R: ALTOS CONSULTANT Reply to #1357 Thanks, Steve. That is what I assumed [that disk capacity could be expanded], but I've been told that it depends on which Altos box they have. I'm going to find out and I'll post additional info. Gabe. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1353 reply #3 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1355 06-16-88 11:17 (Read 169 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: JOHN WERMUTH (Rcvd) subject: R: PACKARD BELL - DAK Reply to #1249 Sorry about taking awhile to respond, but I've been overseas for a while. RE your DAK PackBell system: I have one or two comments. The logitec mouse is the best mouse i've ever run into. The menuing software, while it needs a few more features to be really great, is nonetheless the best in the business right now. Unless you go to the grreat agony of installing Windows or something like it. In that case, the Logitec mouse is only slightly better than the others. But still better. It's just that windows does (with considerably more trouble, expense, disk, and memory) what Logitec's menu software would. Unless I miss my guess, that processor has only 4 expansion slots left free. Better check if the processor has serial and parallel on-board, since you'll need a serial port for the mouse, you may be left without a free Serial port. With out at least 2 serial and 1 parallel, some easy expansion paths are pretty blocked off. $1999 sounds a little high, if you are a roll-your-own kind of guy. If you'd rather open the box, plug it in, and play, that price might be ok. I'm not up on prcing to really comment. I've seen a few mail order computers of a similar nature. They do a stunt with hard disks that make the hard disk performance better than an XT, but significantly slower than a regular AT. One such popular system used an 8-bit RLL controller, similar to that found in a lot of XTs these days, and an ST-238R drive. That's a good combination, but an AT-Class machine can do better. DAK is not in the computer business. They are in the merchendising business. You can count on next to zero technical support from them of any usefull nature. I'd say you should check into the things I've raised re hard disk acess time and ports and free slots and then make a decision. Some degree of free tech support is avalable here, of course. Perhaps you should call packard bell and see how much is available there. This machine is likely to be a phase-out, if DAK is selling it. BTW, hard disk access times of 40ms and lower are normally considered AT-class. 60-70 or 80ms is the slower PC or XT type of drive. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1367 06-17-88 18:26 (Read 163 times) from: JOHN WERMUTH to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PACKARD BELL - DAK Reply to #1355 Tom, that is a really complete answer, and I have captured it to read off-line. Very interesting comment.. I will probably not use DAK if a similar machine is available thru regular channels.. Thanks again. John W. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1355 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1356 06-16-88 11:22 (Read 167 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: BOBBY NATHAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5" DRIVE ON XT Reply to #1295 Sorry to take so long to reply; been overseas for a few weeks. Absolutely not. The Toshiba 1.44mb drive is a very special animal. The Toshiba (or anyother) 720k drive cannot write data at a high enough density to get 1440k on a disk. Get the right hard ware if you need 1.44mb. It also takes a special controller. The drive and controller in kit form from us is about $260, or about $300 installed by us. That's if your existing floppy ontroller can be disabled easily. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1384 06-20-88 01:56 (Read 160 times) from: BOBBY NATHAN to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5" DRIVE ON XT Reply to #1356 hat about Western Digital's WD1003 WA2 or NCL's 5425 controllers? Thanks Bobby >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1356 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1387 06-20-88 11:00 (Read 159 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: BOBBY NATHAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5" DRIVE ON XT Reply to #1384 Don't understand the question, Bobby. What about those two controllers? I haven't run into either one. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1356 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1388 06-20-88 17:09 (Read 160 times) from: DAVE PINGEL to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5" DRIVE ON XT Reply to #1387 I have an NCL controller on my machine and am very pleased with it. The setup routine (I have an AT clone) has 360kb, 1.2 meg, 720kb and 1.44 meg. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1356 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1391 06-20-88 21:54 (Read 162 times) from: BOBBY NATHAN to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5" DRIVE ON XT Reply to #1387 Sorry, those are the two controllers I use in building my sytems. The western digital WD1003WA2 I use in AT cases and the NCL 5425 I use in Baby AT cases. Both controllers support dual Floppies and Dual Hard drives. THey both will support 1.2 meg 5.2{" and 720k 3.5" drives as long as the CMOS supports their use. Drivparm or Driver.sys are not required. I was curious if your 1.44 meg drive will work with those cards. Thanks Bobby >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1356 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1397 06-21-88 10:58 (Read 164 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: BOBBY NATHAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5" DRIVE ON XT Reply to #1391 Most controllers that support 1.2mb format also support 1.44mb format. Even if the setup program doesn't support the 1.44mb format, you can still use such a drive. The drives we sell come with driver software and you may or may not have to use it. We haven't yet run across a case where a 1.44mb could not be used. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1356 reply #5 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1446 06-25-88 22:54 (Read 164 times) from: BOBBY NATHAN to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5" DRIVE ON XT Reply to #1397 Are you speaking of Driveparm? If Drivparm is set to /d:1/t:160/h:2/f:2 then the drive will try to format 160 tracks ... Bobby >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1356 reply #6 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1458 06-27-88 18:01 (Read 167 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: BOBBY NATHAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5" DRIVE ON XT Reply to #1446 I'm sorry-- I forgot the context of our discusion. If we were talking about using 1.44mb or 720k drives with non 3.3 versions of DOS, then YES drivparm will work. With the 1.44mb drives and some drives of other types, a driver will usually be included. That would be used instead of DRIVPARM. (Don't spell that with an E, DOS won't like it...). I think it was DOS 3.10 that had something called DRIVER.SYS that did something like what DRIVPARM does. Or maybe just certain DOS oems used driver.sys, I dunno. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1356 reply #7 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1361 06-16-88 22:25 (Read 150 times) from: DAVID NYE to: THOMAS ATKINSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: ALIGNING FLOPPY DR Reply to #1347 Thanks for the info. Will look for the file. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1362 06-16-88 22:30 (Read 154 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: DON RANDALL (Rcvd) subject: R: TELEPHONE PACKAGE Reply to #1349 Give a call to 1-800-6-WATSON, and follow through the VIS (Voice information system) information. If this is what you are looking for i can get you one for half price (mine, and unused (a long story))... --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1365 06-17-88 12:43 (Read 148 times) from: MARTIN COX to: ALL subject: RLL/ADAPTEC CAN ANYONE TELL ME A GOOD RLL CONTROLLER TO USE WITH AN ST277R, EXCEPT THE ADAPTEC. I HAVE THE FORMER AND ITS JUST NOT RELIABLE !!!!!! ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED. THANKS. MARTIN COX. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1366 06-17-88 17:44 (Read 146 times) from: JOHN REDFORD to: MARTIN COX (Rcvd) subject: R: RLL/ADAPTEC Reply to #1365 What kind of a machine is it for? sometimes can make a big difference. What model of the Adaptek are you having problems with? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1365 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1370 06-18-88 03:22 (Read 148 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: MARTIN COX (Rcvd) subject: R: RLL/ADAPTEC Reply to #1365 I have used the OMTI RLL since the beginning of March on ST225's and it works great on those so i would think the 277R should operate nicely with it. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1365 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1373 06-18-88 06:58 (Read 145 times) from: MARTIN COX to: JOHN REDFORD (Rcvd) subject: R: R: RLL/ADAPTEC Reply to #1366 OOP's left reply in SPEEDUP conf. Must be asleep this morning. Martin. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1365 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1375 06-18-88 18:53 (Read 139 times) from: JOHN REDFORD to: MARTIN COX (Rcvd) subject: R: R: RLL/ADAPTEC Reply to #1373 thats where my reply is too. I answere em as i see em, lest i get really screwed up. anyway, try another low level format just in case and see what happens. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1365 reply #4 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1368 06-17-88 21:50 (Read 143 times) from: JOHN UTRIE to: ALL subject: RESET IS ANYONE FAMILAR WITH A PRODUCT THAT CAN BE HOOKED UP TO AN XT CLONE THAT WILL PERMIT REBOOTING WITHOUT POWERING DOWN WHEN THE KEYBOARD LOCKS UP? I HATE HAVING TO DO "COLD BOOTS" WHEN THIS SITUATION OCCURS. THANKS, J.W.U. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1371 06-18-88 03:24 (Read 147 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: JOHN UTRIE (Rcvd) subject: R: RESET Reply to #1368 Scan Mahoney for reset or switch, you could build a reset switch or probably find one for a few bucks... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1368 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1369 06-18-88 00:04 (Read 147 times) from: KAAN BAMAUNG to: ALL subject: MODEM PROBLEMS I bought a NEC Multisynch II about three weeks ago and since then I have gotten nothing but problems with my Modem ( strange huh? ). I used to use a monochorome monitor coupled with a Paradise EGA 480 card and for six monthss or more without any problems. I use a Maxum 2400 internal card. What happens now is this: After I installed the NEC monitor the phone lines went dead. All I could hear was the swishing sound that a modem makes after it has been turned on. The trouble is I did not even turn the machine on yet! AAfter fiddling around and calling the phone company I finally got the idea of unplugging the jack attached to the modem from the phone line. And guess what, I got back the dialtone. If I plug the modem back on tho, the dialtone will last for only a few seconds beforthe line goes dead again. Since then I can use the modem only if I can dial with two to three seconds after plugging the jack in. At other s times I leave it unplugged. Can anyone help me with this problem? Is it the monitor, the modem the graphics card or some combination of the three ? Any hint/help will be appreciated . Kaan --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1372 06-18-88 03:28 (Read 149 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: KAAN BAMAUNG (Rcvd) subject: R: MODEM PROBLEMS Reply to #1369 Put the mono monitor back up and see if the modem works again. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1369 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1376 06-18-88 20:35 (Read 141 times) from: KAAN BAMAUNG to: THOMAS ATKINSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MODEM PROBLEMS Reply to #1372 I did that but no dice. I have a feeling that it might be the modem now. I turned on the PC while there were no monitors connected I still got the same problem. What is strange is why I didn't have this problem before. Now I have to unplug the modem from the phone line when it's not being used and after each time I hang up from a BBS so that I can dial another BBS or to keep the line free. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1369 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1385 06-20-88 02:08 (Read 145 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: KAAN BAMAUNG (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MODEM PROBLEMS Reply to #1376 If you have an internal modem and you changed cards for the monitor i would think that you could have moved the modem card out of alignment when you were in there. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1369 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1587 07-19-88 20:48 (Read 142 times) from: KAAN BAMAUNG to: THOMAS ATKINSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MODEM PROBLEMS Reply to #1385 Sorry for the long delay in replying but I have been away and haven't been using the modem too often ( for obvious reasons ). I checked the alignment of the card and it wasn't misaligned. One message that I got form another BBS was that the on-off switch in the modem could possibly be stuck in the open position. After trying to shake it loose by rapping the modem ( upside down ) I have given up trying. Now I'm looking for a new internal card and I would like to know which one I should look at. ( my budget is around 320 bucks ). Any suggestions? Thanks for your help Kaan >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1369 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1588 07-19-88 22:14 (Read 140 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: KAAN BAMAUNG (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MODEM PROBLEMS Reply to #1587 If i were to purchase a new modem i suppose i would desire the Hayes, Multi Tech, or US robotics brands. Check out the want ads to see what is available. Every one talks about MNP, i have an older MNP modem, level 3 that i never use with MNP on. I think they have upgraded the level on the MNP modems about 3 times in two years. My own belief is that a quality modem is one that is capable of picking up weak carriers and has the ability to hold the connection. You get what you pay for i guess. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1369 reply #5 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1602 07-22-88 22:19 (Read 145 times) from: KAAN BAMAUNG to: THOMAS ATKINSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MODEM PROBLEMS Reply to #1588 Thanks, I'll give it a look see. Kaan >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1369 reply #6 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1374 06-18-88 10:03 (Read 140 times) from: DANIEL DAVIDSON to: ALL subject: IMAGEWRITER II I have an Apple Imagewriter II I would like to use with my IBM 286 XT. Is ~>there any other piece of hardware or software that I need other than a serial or parallel port? All information about this will be greatly appapreciated{ --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1392 06-20-88 23:25 (Read 143 times) from: NICK KEES to: DANIEL DAVIDSON (Rcvd) subject: R: IMAGEWRITER II Reply to #1374 As I understand it, you will need a serial port, rather than a parallel port. But the serial cable may need to have a different connector on the end that plugs into the printer than a standard serial cable. Look at the cable connector on the printer before ordering the cable. Nick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1374 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1377 06-18-88 15:34 (Read 140 times) from: JAMES LEVIN to: ALL subject: NORTHGATE 286 cc: DAVID ZAR Has anyone had experience with this company and their AT class machine? Back in March David Zar left a negative review of thier customer service, has this changed, or are there suporting/conflicting experiences? --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1378 06-19-88 15:48 (Read 136 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: ALL subject: MEMORY REFRESH RATES Volume 7, number 13, of PC Magazine contains an article, "Instant Speedup for Your PC," by Brian Roemmele, president of Ariel Computer Corp., the speed-crazed PC people (in other words, perfectly typical PC users). The article tells how to reset the memory refresh rate so that memory refresh happens less frequently. This minimizes the time spent in doing memory refresh and frees up more time for REAL work. I incorporated his logic into a QB 4.0 program I wrote to do the port writes he specified using a couple of command line arguments for the high and low bytes which specify the refresh rate. I found that I began to get parity errors somewhere around 0,144 (high,low byte) but could run reliably at 0,128. I also found that I reached a point of diminishing return somewhere around 0,96. For all of the comparisons, I used PC Magazine's "PCBENCH 4.0" series. I'm running an 8mhz true-blue IBM PC/AT. I would be very interested in hearing about others' experiences on other PCs. BTW, my parity errors always occurred in add-on memory, most of which I'm using as a RAM disk (about 2MB worth); some fills out my lower 640K. The extra memory is on a Tecmar Maestro board. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1393 06-20-88 23:29 (Read 138 times) from: NICK KEES to: JOE VINCENT (Rcvd) subject: R: MEMORY REFRESH RATES Reply to #1378 Volume 7, Number 13???!!! Why is it that I am always so far behind in getting PC Mags? Usually it takes a couple weeks for me to get mine after the utilities show up here on the board. Now I'm two issues behind. I'm definitely calling someone at PC Mag on this one! Nick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1378 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1408 06-21-88 18:52 (Read 147 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: NICK KEES (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MEMORY REFRESH RAT Reply to #1393 PC Magazine is a bit complacent about delivery to their paying subscribers. I can always find the latest issue on the stand at B. Dalton well before it shows up in my mailbox. Don't feel bad about seeing the utilities show up on Exec before your magazine arrives. The utilities are posted on their BBS about the same time as the magazines are mailed out. Somebody on Exec must call their BBS every hour looking for the latest utilities because there is less than a 24-hour delay after posting on their BBS before they're posted here. If you call PC Magazine about late delivery, and they respond to you the same way they respond to the letters they publish from readers, they'll have some smart-aleck answer for you. They've become as arrogant as Lotus and Ashton-Tate. Notice how they turned a reader service (their IRS) into another way to squeeze another dime out of their readership (PC Mag-net)? I'm disillusioned -- I thought they were different. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1378 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1417 06-21-88 23:41 (Read 148 times) from: NICK KEES to: JOE VINCENT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MEMORY REFRESH RAT Reply to #1408 Yeah, I thought that was pretty funny, PC Mag-net, designed to "attract" more money out of their readership. Har, Har. So funny I forgot to laugh! Nick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1378 reply #3 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1379 06-19-88 17:54 (Read 136 times) from: DAVID KRILL to: BILL NEWKIRK (Rcvd) subject: ENHANCE 3194 Bill, I'm interested in editting the autokey (recording) files on the 3 1/2" disk for the 3194. This will allow me to merge recordings and edit recordings in order to save time and not have to retype the whole recording over again. Have you ever worked with editting recordings from the 3194? And, do you think that it is feasible to move these .AUT files over to a PC to edit them? If yes, what would you suggest I use to edit the files with? They do not appear to be ASCII. Also, have you heard anything about the 3194 being specially designed for use at Aetna Life Insurance? I also thought I'd like to reprogram the function keys (PF keys on top of keyboard) with different functions. Now my company thinks I might bring the national system down if I try too much experimentation. What do you think the chances are of doing something like that by experimenting with editing recording files to enhance the recording feature of the 3194? Any suggestions you can supply would surely be appreciated. Thanks much!!! --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1380 06-19-88 18:11 (Read 141 times) from: DAVID KRILL to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: 3.5" DRIVE Tom, I read a message or two with your name on re: 3.5" drives. Let me get this straight. Does a person need a special controller card in order to connect up a 3.5" drive to a PC or PC AT? If the standard card can be used, can it still support a 5 1/4" drive too? Also, can the same 3.5" drive run on both an AT and PC (XT) with the same controller card? Thanks for clearing this up for me. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1386 06-20-88 10:58 (Read 149 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: DAVID KRILL (Rcvd) subject: R: 3.5" DRIVE Reply to #1380 1. Depends 2. Yes 3. Usually 1. Does a person need a special controller to run 3.5" drives? Your question is incomplete. There is a very critical difference between the IBM PS/2 style 3.5" drives, and the 3.5 drives used in a lot of portables these days. DRIVE SPECIAL CONTROLLER? CAPACITY ======================================================================== 3.5" DSDD 720K No! 737280 bytes, or 2x that (E.G. Toshiba) (need DRIVPARM= in of 5.25" DSDD IBM drives your CONFIG.SYS, or DOS 3.3 3.5" 1.44m YES! Need driver & format 1.44 megabytes software, usually included. The 720k drives run in place of a 5.25" 360k format drive, same controller. The 1.44mb drives are a pain to install in some machines, because the same card that does the floppy control also does half a dozen other things too, like memory, SP, PP, clock, whatever. You have to be able to disable ONLY the floppy controller, in order to easily install a 1.44mb drive. I've done it, in a system that used a multifunction floppy (etc) controller card, but I'm not going to do it again. 2. You can mix 3.5" 720k format drives with 5.25" 360k drives if you setup your config.sys properly. 3. The drive for the AT and the XT (3.5" drives I mean) are the same. The controller usually isn't. That's because a lot of AT's support 1.44mb format directly, via the 1.2mb 5.25" floppy controller. Now 720k format 3.5" drive are anotherstory. If the XT or AT has 5.25" 360k format drives already, it supports 3.5" 720k drives. Most AT's support 1.2mb, 1.44mb, 720k, and 360k format drives, all directly, without a different controller card. Does that answer your questions? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1380 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1437 06-24-88 00:04 (Read 150 times) from: DAVID KRILL to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5" DRIVE Reply to #1386 Tom, Thank you very much for your answer on 3.5" drives. My intention is to put one in an IBM XT clone. Hard to believe a different controller card wouldn't be needed, but then again I would need DRIVPARM or DOD 3.3 in my CONFIG.SYS file then. Thanks! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1380 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1381 06-19-88 18:12 (Read 137 times) from: DAVID KRILL to: BILL NEWKIRK (Rcvd) subject: 3194 BOOT DOS? Can the 3194 boot a 3.5" DOS disk? And, do you know what microprocessor is in the 3194? Thanks! (I forgot to ask earier). --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1382 06-18-88 19:31 (Read 136 times) from: DAVE CLAY to: ALL subject: 3.5 EXTERNAL DRIVE A little advice would be much appreciated. It looks like I will have to break down and buy a 3.5 external drive. ( I call the 3.5 floppys "stiffys" ). I have an AT style PC's Limited (Dell) with the controller and ROM already installed. We need to go external because the B: slot has the tape backup. Can we cable the DC power out the back as well as the control and data signals. Cheapest would be to buy a box and an internal drive. Is that possible. What do I have to do about EMI problems, (I dont want to see the FCC). Any suggestions would be very much appreciated. Dave Clay --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1383 06-18-88 20:07 (Read 132 times) from: DAVE CLAY to: ALL subject: PROM BURNER Looking for advice and information on PROM burners at less than $500. Any suggestions or experience would be much appreciated. We need to burn NMOS like Toshiba's TMM27256-15 and similiar types. Thanks for the help! Dave Clay --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1389 06-20-88 17:18 (Read 133 times) from: PHIL PUCCI to: DAVE CLAY (Rcvd) subject: R: PROM BURNER Reply to #1383 Dave, Look at the PROM blaster offered by JDR. It has a card that plugs into your PC (no external PS required) along with software to select EPROM family, size, etc. It is VERY inexpensive and a friend of mine has had good things to say about it (and JDR). PdP >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1383 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1390 06-20-88 20:36 (Read 138 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: ALL subject: SECOND HARD DISK I have a Seagate ST238 controlled by the infamous Adaptec 2070a. I would like to add a second 30 meg drive and have heard good things about the Miniscribe 3438. Is this different from the 8438 disk? Is it possible to add a second 30 meg drive AND Western Digital controller, copy the contents of the first(C) adaptec/seagate to the second(D) WD/Miniscribe, then disconnect the loathsome Adaptec and connect the Seagate to the WD? While also juggling an orange an apple and a banana? --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1394 06-20-88 23:38 (Read 141 times) from: NICK KEES to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: SECOND HARD DISK Reply to #1390 I don't know anything about juggling, but if you haven't had any trouble yet with your Adaptec/Seagate combination, you probably won't now. But if you want to change your controller, then you should know that you can't put two controllers in a computer at once. But you MAY be able to connect two hard disks to the Adaptec controller. The ones I've seen have provisions for that. Then you can copy what you want, run a backup and change controllers. I've personally never been able to get a WD controller to talk to either a Seagate drive or a Miniscribe drive, and have not had any real problems with the Adaptec/Seagate combination, as long as the release was late enough. Nick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1390 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1406 06-21-88 12:23 (Read 145 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: NICK KEES (Rcvd) subject: R: R: SECOND HARD DISK Reply to #1394 Did you say you've NEVER goten a WD controller to work with either a Seagate or Miniscribe drive? You must have greatly offended St. Vidicon of the Cathode Ray Tube. We use WD controllers all the time and it works just peachy. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1390 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1410 06-21-88 20:07 (Read 146 times) from: GARY BREUCKMAN to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: SECOND HARD DISK Reply to #1390 I've used both the miniscribe and seagate 30mb disks with the western digital 27X controller, both work with no problem. Regarding the miniscribe model numbers, 3438 is a 30MB disk with 85MS average seek time 3438P (or 3438+) is the same disk with a 55MS average seek, get that if you can. Miniscribe seems, to me, a bit noisier than the seagate, but I've heard better things about reliability. I've also heard that most of the other miniscribe models, like the 40MB 3650, can be used just fine with RLL controllers (do so at your own risk, I wouldn't!). The 8438 is a 3.5-inch hard drive with 68MS avg seek. The drive is compatible with the 5.25-in models as far as cables, etc., and comes with a 5.25 inch frame so you can mount it in a standard slot. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1390 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1413 06-21-88 23:26 (Read 144 times) from: NICK KEES to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: SECOND HARD DISK Reply to #1406 Yeah, I know, it's strange, but true. I mean, I haven't tried hundreds or anything, but one supplier I had switched to WD from Adaptec back when it seemed that everyone's Adaptec/Seagate was crashing. I tried THREE different WD controllers and TWO different ST238s and one 8438, and EACH time I would get to the end of the format process and get the ugly "Track 0 bad, Format Failure" message. Client was getting a little upset. I swapped in an Adaptec controller, et Voila! no problem! I daresay that if your first three experiences with WD controllers had been like mine, you wouldn't have any installed either. Nick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1390 reply #4 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1395 06-21-88 06:49 (Read 149 times) from: STEVE MORGAN to: MARK SIMMONS (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DRIVES Reply to #1328 MARK, Well the anchor is back, and it is running. If appearances account for anything the drive looks great. Practical Repair replaced the logic board, and the stepper motor. Unfortunately it cost $162 total that includes shipping. It seems as though they did very good work though. The phone for Peripheral Repair is (818) 700-8482. So if you want a guaranteed fix then Peripheral Repair is the place for the CMI's. Brockway Disk Technologies is a little less expensive, but they couldn't fix my CMI. Brockway specializes in the Miniscribe and the Seagate lines. Good luck with your drive, If you can remember leave me a message on the results, Steve Morgan --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1396 06-21-88 09:50 (Read 135 times) from: PAT PFAFFL to: ALL subject: KEYBOARD ERROR I recently purchased an IBM-PC (256K) which apparently had an improper keyboard connected to it. I have replaced the keyboard and everything functions fine, except I get a "AA 301" error on bootup. The manual says that a ?? 301 error code indicates a keyboard defect. The keyboard works fine, but the error message annoys me. Is there really a problem I should be concerned with? Is there any way (short of replacing the motherboard) to eliminate the error message? Any assistance will be apppeciated. Pat --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1411 06-21-88 21:32 (Read 143 times) from: BRIAN KIEHNAU to: PAT PFAFFL (Rcvd) subject: R: KEYBOARD ERROR Reply to #1396 Pat I also get that AA301 error on startup, it's because of the new key board that you are using. Some of the newer keyboards will work with PC class machines as well as AT class machines but it takes them some time for the keyboard to set up for the machine that it is pluged in to resulting in the keybord error. Brian >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1396 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1430 06-23-88 10:53 (Read 140 times) from: PAT PFAFFL to: BRIAN KIEHNAU (Rcvd) subject: R: R: KEYBOARD ERROR Reply to #1411 Brian, Thanks for the info. I was afraid that whoever had used a non-compatable keyboard on the system prior to me had done some damage to the system. Now I can relax knowing it's nothing serious. Thanks again. Pat >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1396 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1398 06-21-88 11:06 (Read 144 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: TIM NESHAM (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 2 HARD DRIVES Reply to #1154 I doubt you can wreck your drives by hooking them up wrong. Just to clarify and expand, if there is a twist in the drive cable, both drives are pinned to the same drive select, often 1, sometimes 2. If no twist, the first drive is pinned as drive 1 and the second as drive 2. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1399 06-21-88 11:08 (Read 142 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: PASCAL ROY (Rcvd) subject: R: ZENITH 181 UPGRADE Reply to #1155 Zenith Data Systems, 1-312-562-7300, or 616-982-3188 for end-user technical support. Better yet, find a local dealer. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1450 06-26-88 09:30 (Read 150 times) from: PASCAL ROY to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: ZENITH 181 UPGRADE Reply to #1399 Thank you for the info, Tom; I'll contact them. Pascal >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1399 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1400 06-21-88 11:14 (Read 151 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: CARRA BUSSA subject: R: KEYBOARDS (GOOD ONES) Reply to #1157 Well, that loud click that you feel when you bash keys on an IBM is hard to find. I suggest you get a program call "KEYCLIK" or something like it. It makes your computer click when you hit keys. Then you can get a keyboard with the right feel for you and not worry about tactile feedback. I have a Keytronic KB5151 which I like because of the layout. It has a separate arrow keypad and a separate numeric pad, great for spreadsheets. But the keyboard I like even better is the MaxiSwitch ME101 by EECO. It even has a switch on the bottom that allows you to swap the control and caps lock keys. And it has a nice feel. Which of course is a matter of taste. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1412 06-21-88 22:05 (Read 150 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: KEYBOARDS (GOOD ON Reply to #1400 Tom, Not the dreaded "keyclick", please!!! I can't stand machine that attempt to make up for a mushy keyboard with sounds coming from another part of the room. A key-snap should be felt, not heard. Any sound should be through bone conduction. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1400 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1414 06-21-88 23:32 (Read 150 times) from: NICK KEES to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: KEYBOARDS (GOOD ON Reply to #1412 While I agree that it is not as good as feeling the keyclick, hearing it from across the room is better than nothing at all. I have a Keytronics 5150jr for (obviously) my jr. There IS no click in the keyboard, but I'd be hard pressed to replace the keyboard with anything else. So I set it to click from the computer. Some goofy programs disable the click (the ATERM program of PCAnywhere, for instance) and it really slows down my typing. Nick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1400 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1420 06-22-88 15:24 (Read 149 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: KEYBOARDS (GOOD ON Reply to #1412 I LIKE my keyclick program. It lets me know that the computer is still more-or-less alive. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1400 reply #3 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1401 06-21-88 11:21 (Read 150 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: RUPERT MURPHY (Rcvd) subject: R: BOOT FAILURE Reply to #1161 I think you are remembering a message I left some time ago. There should be an 8284 or 82284 clock chip near the 8088 or whatever processor the Tandy uses. Pin 10 or 11 (11 I think) is the reset pin. There is usually a network connected between +5 vdc, ground, and pin 11. The network is usually just a resistor and a capacitor. If you turn your box on and it locks up and fails to boot, take a small screwdriver and short pins 10&11 together for half a second. If it boots, you have trouble with that little network. If the tandy already has a reset button, use that instead. If you power-up and it fails to boot, press the reset button. That will boot it if your only problem is that little reset circuit. Of course, some computers use a one-shot chip or a counter instead of the little RC network. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1402 06-21-88 11:36 (Read 150 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: GARY EIDE (Rcvd) subject: R: HELP WITH XT Reply to #1201 Any relation (by marriage maybe?) to Dick Northouse? My 286 machine crashes out on stack failure messages too. I think its my EMS memory board or memory resident software. Might look into STACK= commands in your config.sys file. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1418 06-21-88 23:46 (Read 152 times) from: GARY EIDE to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HELP WITH XT Reply to #1402 No, no relation to Dick Northouse. (At lease not that I know of.) Someone, has already suggested that I try a STACKS=24,256 in the CONFIG.SYS file. Strangely enough since posting the message I have not had another "stack" crash, so have not put that statement in the CONFIG file. Will try it when/if I start having the problem again. Thanks for the info. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1402 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1422 06-22-88 15:35 (Read 149 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: GARY EIDE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HELP WITH XT Reply to #1418 I tried a similar STACKS= statement to no avail. I then tried STACKS=60,512 also to no avail. I then removed all STACKS= statements from my CONFIG.SYS file. It still crashes every once and a while. Dick Northouse had a cousin that ran a large dairy farm in Minnesota. His name was Gary Eide. No relation huh? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1402 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1426 06-22-88 23:59 (Read 150 times) from: GARY EIDE to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HELP WITH XT Reply to #1422 No, no direct relation that I know of. The Eide's in my family all come from the Oseo, WI. area. My granfather was a direct immigrant. He did run a farm in Oseo for quite some time. Interesting, that the STACKS statement does not work. I assume what you are doing with that statemetn is setting apart memory for the stack. have looked in my manual and can find nothing on that statement, so I am just guessing as to the purpose. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1402 reply #3 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1403 06-21-88 11:42 (Read 151 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: LARRY EDWARDS (Rcvd) subject: R: MONOCHROME MONITORS Reply to #1212 Open your monitor up (unplug it first) and look for a screwdriver adjustable sub-bright or contrast control. MAybe you can make it brighter. We ususally can on our samsungs, xtrons, zeniths, etc. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1415 06-21-88 23:36 (Read 153 times) from: NICK KEES to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MONOCHROME MONITOR Reply to #1403 Is there ever a screwdriver adjustment for moving the image sideways on the screen? I have a new Everex 14 inch monochrome monitor, and in 132 column mode the 1 character or 2 are cut off the left side. The only screws that ARE reachable from the back are focus and sub-brightness. Nick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1403 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1421 06-22-88 15:32 (Read 150 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: NICK KEES (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MONOCHROME MONITOR Reply to #1415 If your monochrome monitor's screen image is skewed off one edge, try twiddling the horizontal hold knob. Most monochrome monitors can be adjusted to move the screen anywhere from 1/16" to nearly 1/2" depending on the monitor. But, the better solution is to use the setup program that comes with your video card. Most such programs have an option to shift the 132 column mode a few dots left or right, so that it lines up with the 80 column mode and thus removes the need to tweak the monitor. Some programs (very few) let you move the 80 col mode until it lines up with the 132 col mode. Adjusting the card is better because adjusting the monitor may make it loose sync when switching modes. Mine did. That was until I set the card up right. But yes, I'd think there'd at least be a horizontal width coil on the video board inside the monitor. You'd need to take the housing off the monitor to get at it. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1403 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1404 06-21-88 11:53 (Read 152 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: GARY SCHULTZ (Rcvd) subject: R: MITSU Reply to #1246 Hey you lazy (married) bum, how are you? I'm great, just got back from France/Germany/Bavaria/Austria. I needed a vacation. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1407 06-21-88 13:02 (Read 154 times) from: GARY SCHULTZ to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MITSU Reply to #1404 So how was the trip? Did you learn anything? What does Computerese sound like in GERMAN? @??*Lazy*??!! I been busy. Between this new hardware and learning new softwary (DesQview), and marrying off friends in Michigan, and California, and Eau Claire, and myself, and Where am I ? <gary> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1404 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1409 06-21-88 19:39 (Read 152 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MITSU Reply to #1404 Tom, I found it interesring that you listed Germany/Bavaria in your list. THEY seperate them, too! Nice country, tho... -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1404 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1416 06-21-88 23:38 (Read 153 times) from: NICK KEES to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MITSU Reply to #1404 Hey, Bavaria? Did you happen to notice a little town there called Trier? That's where my family came from in the 1860s. Nick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1404 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1419 06-22-88 15:22 (Read 151 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: GARY SCHULTZ (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MITSU Reply to #1407 Computerese would appear to be the same the world over. My buddy Ingo, who lives near Stuttgart, speaks the same language as me, even tho his english isn't real good. What's desqview good for? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1404 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1423 06-22-88 15:38 (Read 153 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: NICK KEES (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MITSU Reply to #1416 Sorry, Trier I missed. I missed a lot, having only a few weeks to see it all. I also missed Oberlooken, where my family is from. That's alleged to be somewhere in Germany. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1404 reply #5 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1424 06-22-88 16:39 (Read 161 times) from: GARY SCHULTZ to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MITSU Reply to #1419 cc: SYSOP cc: DAN JUDGE RE: DesQview Well, running on a 386, I use QEMM 4.1 to control all of the extended ram. Two interesting things that it can do:first : it uploads slow video bios into faster (much faster) ram. Secondly, it sorts Ram by speed (this of course, I take by faith). DesQview then allows me to run several windows at once. For instance, I run 123 and my old Revelation dbs. Or, Arev & 123. Or Arev, Rev, and Qmodem downloading in the background. Coupled with EGA in 43 line mode, I can see the download in the background while seeing the full 25x80 Arev screen. True multi-tasking, in other words. I really enjoy the Arev & Rev sessions 'cause I can see the old system while I design the new. Even cut & paste fields. It has the text c&p, and a built-in macro program sort of similar in operation to Newkey. Basically, I have unloaded all of those nice little TSR's in favor of TRUE multitasking. and I am singing again. Actually I accidentally pushed <ctrl-n> and got . Cute. Having fun in more ways than one (all at once)... __ __ __ == /_//_// /_/== ___/ ____/ >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1404 reply #6 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1405 06-21-88 12:08 (Read 146 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: DEAN RUTK (Rcvd) subject: R: HARD DRIVES Reply to #1278 My tables don't even list a Tandon model HH 725A drive. If I knew how many heads and cylinders it had, I could tell you what other drive its like. Are you sure that you have the model # right? --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1442 06-24-88 22:54 (Read 146 times) from: DEAN RUTK to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DRIVES Reply to #1405 Tom, probably my mistake, I just figured because the drive was shipped back in a Tandon box that it was a Tandon drive. Now looking at the drive I see that it must be a Microscience (does that sound right??) sorry for any inconvenience that this may have caused , see if you can find out anything about this drive now. Thanks Dean_____________ >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1405 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1457 06-27-88 17:57 (Read 147 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: DEAN RUTK (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DRIVES Reply to #1442 MicroSci drives are fairly common, unfortunately. They te3nd to fail more than I'd like. Here's the only table I could find. Is this one of your drives? MODEL HEADS CYL RWC WP HH612 4 306 306 306 10 MEG? HH725 4 612 612 612 20 MEG? An HH725 looks somewhat like a Seagate ST-225 and may work in place of it. That help? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1405 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1476 07-01-88 00:12 (Read 158 times) from: DEAN RUTK to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DRIVES Reply to #1457 Tom, Yea I think that should do it , really appreciate you taking the time to help!! That's what I love about this BBS. there is always someone out there who can help when you need it. Be talking to you again I'm sure. Thanks again!! Dean_______________ >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1405 reply #3 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1425 06-22-88 19:27 (Read 146 times) from: PETER FORMAINI to: ALL subject: CRT DISPLAY PROBLEMS I am having a problem with the display of lazerdisc-based video on my CRT. Anyone familiar with lazerdiscs could be extremely helpful if they would read message #243 in the INTERACTIVE VIDEO section of the board and leave me a message relating to this problem. Many thanks!! --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1429 06-23-88 08:15 (Read 141 times) from: BOB STOUT to: ALL subject: HELP WANTED Help!!!!! Does anyone have any technical information pertaining to Tandy's Model 100 Portable Disk Drive or Disk Drive II? I could use any information including technical docs, source code from a disk manager program utilizing that drive or ??? please leave a note here if you can help. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1480 07-01-88 07:26 (Read 154 times) from: DAN ROBBINS to: BOB STOUT (Rcvd) subject: R: HELP WANTED Reply to #1429 Bob, I'm sorry that I can't help you out with the technical info you want on the Tandy portable disk drive. But maybe you could help me! I have a very complete Tandy 200 (including a disk drive) which I'd like to sell. Might you know anyone who'd be interested? Thanks in advance for your help. Dan... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1429 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1495 06-07-88 07:01 (Read 154 times) from: BOB STOUT to: DAN ROBBINS (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HELP WANTED Reply to #1480 Dan, what are you looking for your model 200 setup? Would you be interested in any type of trade for ???? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1429 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1496 06-07-88 07:54 (Read 156 times) from: DAN ROBBINS to: BOB STOUT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HELP WANTED Reply to #1495 First, Bob, before I tell you what I want for the Tandy 200 system, let me tell you what it is. The memory is fully expanded (3*24K). There is a plug-in ROM called "Ultimate ROM II" with greatly enhanced word processing, a database program, an outline processing program and a program to better utilize the portable disk drive (I hesitate to call it an operating system!). Of course, there is the portable disk drive unit. I also have the carrying case, direct-connect & acoustic-connect cables for the 300 bps modem, AC adapters and all the manuals. I'd like to get $500 for the lot, but I'd consider a slightly lower offer. As far as trade goes, I now have a Leading Edge "D" at home; I'd consider a color monitor for it plus some $$$. Let me know what you think. Dan... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1429 reply #3 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1431 06-23-88 10:58 (Read 137 times) from: PAT PFAFFL to: ALL subject: PARITY 2 ERROR One of our Compaq 286 machines occasionally locks up while word processing, giving a "parity check error 2 ?????" message (or something like that). It seems to lock up upon keyboard input, although that could be coincidental. It is loaded with 2MB RAM (I thought that might be important since most parity check errors are RAM related). Any help would be appreciated. Pat --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1432 06-23-88 17:28 (Read 141 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: PAT PFAFFL (Rcvd) subject: R: PARITY 2 ERROR Reply to #1431 Pat, I just finished reading a very interesting article in PC Magazine Volume 7, Number 13, which discusses adjustment of memory refresh rates. Although the thrust of the article was decreasing of memory refresh frequency to achieve an apparent increase in CPU speed, one can also *increase* memory refresh frequency if parity errors are popping up and there is not really anything wrong with the memory chips. Since you have 2MB of RAM and only 64K of RAM is refreshed per memory refresh cycle, you might be "on the edge" if your RAM chips are 150ns chips or slower. Assuming that you don't have any marginal chips, which could also account for sporadic parity checks, you might read the PC Magazine article and try increasing the memory refresh frequency; if the problem disappears, you've got it. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1431 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1433 06-23-88 19:31 (Read 147 times) from: PAT PFAFFL to: JOE VINCENT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PARITY 2 ERROR Reply to #1432 Joe, Thanks for the input. I'll look up the article and give it a try. Pat >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1431 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1435 06-23-88 23:16 (Read 139 times) from: BRIAN KIEHNAU to: PAT PFAFFL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PARITY 2 ERROR Reply to #1433 Pat Yoy might try extending the refresh time to get more frequent faults and then try changing one bank of ram at a time untill the fault stops. Do all 9 chips in each bank at a time because it could be the parity chip as well as 1 of the other 8 which are the actual memory. Party check2 is menory on a expansion board(s) not on the system board. A parity check on the system board will give you a parity check1 error msg. Brian >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1431 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1528 07-12-88 12:06 (Read 130 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: BRIAN KIEHNAU (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PARITY 2 ERROR Reply to #1435 I don't have access (easily) to the PC magazine you memntion. Can you describe briefly how to alter refresh rates in PCs? Is this a hardware solution or does one tweak the programming of certain chips with a little assembler code? This could be just the thing for certain marginal memory problems I've run into. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1431 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1537 07-12-88 20:02 (Read 140 times) from: BRIAN KIEHNAU to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PARITY 2 ERROR Reply to #1528 Tom The Pc magazine that I spoke of was volume 7 number13 July 1988 if any one is interested and wants to find it. The way pc magazine changes the memory refresh time is with a short assembly program that resets the value of a register in the 8253 timer. Here is the program listing without comments. N QFRESH.COM A 100 MOV AL,74 OUT 43,AL MOV AL,LL OUT 41,AL MOV AL,HH OUT 41,AL INT 20 (blank line) R CX E W Q The LL and HH are the values that are used to set the timer register so they need to be given a value depending on the refresh time disired. Start with 30h in LL and 00 in HH as you increase LL the amount of time between refresh will increase up to FF and if you need more time start increasing HH from 00 for more time. Save this listing as a ASCII file with name of qfresh.scr and then run it through debug like this "DEBUG < QFRESH.SCR and you will get QFRESH.COM. You will have to reassemble the program each time you want to change the values of LL and HH. Also PC mag. did not say what values would give normal refresh values so you will have to run some bench marks to see if the values are doing what you want them to do. Brian >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1431 reply #5 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1436 06-23-88 23:21 (Read 142 times) from: JACK SHAW to: ALL subject: DELL Has anyone out there had, or know anyone who has had any experience with the DELL Computer out of Texas? Everything I've read has been positive, but it seems it may have been written by the DEL people. The units they have sound too good to be true for the price. Anyone????? Thanks, Jack Shaw --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1440 06-24-88 13:10 (Read 140 times) from: NICK KEES to: JACK SHAW (Rcvd) subject: R: DELL Reply to #1436 Jack, Well, I don't think they are too good to be true for the price, since you can get PC clones from other suppliers for less. But the Dell computers used to be sold under the PCs Ltd label and, after a beginning that was a LITTLE rocky, have built a reputation for a pretty good computer for the price. Especially if you compare the prices to the big names. Nick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1436 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1441 06-24-88 13:25 (Read 139 times) from: MARK MONSON to: JACK SHAW (Rcvd) subject: R: DELL Reply to #1436 I have a computer that was manufactured by Dell..under the PC'S LTD label. It is a 286 running at 8 MHZ and has served me well for almost 2 years now. I recently purchased an enhanced keyboard from them, it came with both the keyboard ROM chip as well as the latest update for the system ROM which gives support for all the new drives (3.5" and more H.D. types). The price was good, and the tech service has been o.k.. I would most certainly buy from them again if I was in the market for a new machine. I hope that this gives you some of the info you need.. Mark... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1436 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1454 06-27-88 12:39 (Read 138 times) from: JACK SHAW to: NICK KEES (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DELL Reply to #1440 Nick, Thanks for the input. I was not aware that they were the old PCs Limited since I am still reading ads for PCs Limited. Jack >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1436 reply #3 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1444 06-25-88 08:12 (Read 134 times) from: DALE REID to: DAVE PINGEL (Rcvd) subject: NCL CONTROLLERS Dave In message 1423 you were discussing controller cards and said that you like NCL controllers. Who are they? Do you know of any ads in the popular literature for them? I know OMTI, WD, Adaptac, but NCL is a new one for me. The particular comment that intrigued (sp?) me was that you mentioned that you had ALL FOUR types of floppy drives connected. All at one time, or at various points in playing with the hardware did you have all four types, two at a time, connected? I very much would like to have a 360, a 1.2, and a 3 1/2 1.44 all on line at the same time, yet I don't know of anything except CompataCard's add on that might do it. Also, I start screwing around with device drivers and that non-standard stuff with possible incompatabilities that I tend to shy away from. Also I have heard occassional grumblings about the Infamous Adaptac 2072 card. Was that one screwy? Rob Greenberg had played with the 2372 and I finally located a good price on one and it is the FIRST RLL card that can drive my Priam V185 to DOS 3.3's theoretical limit on space. WD's 1003RA2 card looked all the world like a MFM card to all my stuff, including Disk Manager from Ontrack. It took a card with on-board ROM to get away from the limitations in CMOS type tables not recognizing RLL type drives to get this to work. I realize that there must be ssome sort of kludge in the startup, (something I just said I wasn't too fond of) but now I have almost three full sized dos partitions to play with. Also, if and when dos 3.4 comes out, I'll be able to get almost 15 megs more on the drive. Now I get the feeling that maybe Adaptac ISN"T such a wonderful board supplier. I should listen to my experience, which haas been flawless so far, but I also learn a lot from other's experience and comments on this board and it seems like people don't like Adaptac. Commentson this? Dale --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1447 06-25-88 23:23 (Read 137 times) from: DAVE PINGEL to: DALE REID (Rcvd) subject: R: NCL CONTROLLERS Reply to #1444 Who is NCL???? I don't have the slightest idea. I only know that when I bought my AT clone I was told it would be coming with an NCL HD/Floppy controller. I was told that it worked better than Western Digital at the 12 MHZ speed of the CPU. I have not been disappointed. I may have misunderstood one of my comments. The controller can handle two floppys and two hard drives. The floppys can be 360, 1.2, 720 or 1.44. Any two, not four. Did I answer all your questions????? Dave >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1444 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1451 06-26-88 12:04 (Read 142 times) from: DALE REID to: DAVE PINGEL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: NCL CONTROLLERS Reply to #1447 dave that's what I thought, only two at a time. too bad. thanks anyway dale >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1444 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1445 06-25-88 19:34 (Read 139 times) from: DAVE CLAY to: JACK SHAW (Rcvd) subject: DELL Jack, I too have a Dell 286-8 and it has worked well for 2- years. I suggest that you might like to look at the messages on the Dell BBS. That is a good way to see if they are still answering trouble calls. The number was 512 338-8528. If you get a voice recording, the voice will usually give the new number if it has changed. before putting you money on the line, make sure that you are going to get the Pheonex bios. I have their own bios and it is ok for DOS and it it will run the 3.5 inch "stiffys" but will not run OS/2 I am told. Dell makes the bios upgrade to out of warrentee users for about $350. In the first year I got bios upgrades free. My last one cost about $75. I think Dell is past all those growing pains by now. I hope this helps, good luck Dave Clay --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1456 06-27-88 12:46 (Read 138 times) from: JACK SHAW to: DAVE CLAY (Rcvd) subject: R: DELL Reply to #1445 Dave, Thanks a bunch for the information. I definitely will give the Dell BBS a call. It is good to hear that the product is good. I now probably will make it a major consideration when I buy. Thanks agan, Jack >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1445 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1448 06-25-88 23:31 (Read 148 times) from: DAVE PINGEL to: ALL subject: ATI VGA WONDER I recently noticed the ad for the new ATI VGA Wonder in PC Magazine. I know it isn't being shipped yet, it is expected to ship in July, but does anyone have an opinion based on the sales pitch??? I think the ad said it could produce VGA on a Multisync monitor. Is that possible??? I would be interested in any opinions as to whether this is really good. Thanks in advance, Dave --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1449 06-25-88 23:44 (Read 140 times) from: RONALD ZORKO to: ALL subject: IBM-XT Anyone know what the last update for the BIOS on an IBM-XT was, and where can I get a replacement? --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1453 06-27-88 10:58 (Read 134 times) from: ALLAN BECKER to: ALL subject: PRINTERS,DAISY I WANT TO BUY A DINOSAUR (No offense IBM, but even yours becomes old) I can make use of a used IBM 5218 printer. This is a letter quality daisy wheel printer, useful but clearly outdated by newer technology in many offices whose word processing department has been using the original IBM Displaywriter, Displaywrite I thru Displaywrite 4 soft- ware. I would prefer to find one in the Milwaukee Metro (if you've ever carried one of these you know it could cost more to ship than the used price!!) One other thing it must work, if it's on it's last leg, I don't want it. Costs too much to service. Please check the word processing folks at your place of employ to see if any of these DINOS are locked up in closets. My phone number follows, or respond to my mailbox on this board: Allan Becker (414)276-6236 Thanks for the help. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1461 06-28-88 10:59 (Read 158 times) from: FLIP TROIANO to: LARRY EDWARDS subject: R: R: PC BRAND Reply to #1265 LzV Larry, We unpacked our pc-brand yesterday. Setup allways takes longer than expected, but things are going well. The configuration we're using is their 286/12, withthe fast seagate 40mb drive, a necmultinc II monitor and the Paradise vga Plus card. Everything appears to work properly now. The case say PC Brand and the mou arrived intact. Hope you have betterluck second try. If we have any problems I'll let you know. How r{sponsive have theyeen to your problems? FLIP --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1462 06-28-88 13:00 (Read 147 times) from: GARY CORBIN to: ALL subject: VENDEX COMPUTER If anyone has any inside information on the new Vendex 286 model coming out this fall, please give me your comments. Also if you have any pricing infor, please advise. Thankyou Gary Corbin --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1463 06-29-88 18:13 (Read 140 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: ALL subject: 3-SPEED CPU? The new kaypro processors run at 4.77, 7.??, and 9.45 mhz. Nice. A dip switch selects whether it boots up at 7 or 9 mhz. The only way to change speed in actual operation is to press CTRL/ALT/1 or CTRL/ALT/2 or CTRL/ALT/3. Each selects a different speed of operation. I would assume that the speed change operation is implemented as an i/o port, and that the bios watches for those keystrokes and slams the appropriate data out the apporopriate port. Can anybody think of a way to figure out what the port and data are for the different speeds? The goal here is to write a little piece of code to do the speed switch in a program. Any/all help appreciated. There is a BIG VLSI chip by Faraday, and the BIOS is a Phoenix custom design for Kaypro. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1464 06-29-88 18:18 (Read 141 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: HELP: CPU SPEED? I have a 3-speed cpu board that switches speed by using hot keys. Trouble is, I want to write a program to do it. I'd assume that they use an i/o port to implement the speed change, and that the bios watches the keyboard for the 3 hot keys and zaps certain bytes out certain ports. Is there any way to finger out what those ports and bytes are? I have a call into Phoenix, who would seem to have developed it for Kaypro, and I will call faraday, who's large VLSI chip appears on the board, but they may not talk to me. Any ideas? --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1466 06-29-88 21:07 (Read 143 times) from: PHIL KATZ to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: HELP: CPU SPEED? Reply to #1464 Tom, Well, about the best suggestion I would have would be to disassemble the INT 9 code in the BIOS. Try and find where the BIOS traps the hot-keys, and what the BIOS does to change the CPU speed. >Phil> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1464 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1492 07-05-88 10:31 (Read 149 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HELP: CPU SPEED? Reply to #1466 I figured out some of it, and then got hold of Faraday Electronics, who makes the VLSI core logic chip that forms the basis of the processor card. They gave me enough hints to write my program. The chip is really a neat piece. You can program operating speed, wait states, all kindsa stuff, just by slamming bits out i/o ports. I can't seem to read back the speed bits, however, the other address is supposed to be readonly status information, but the speed bits don't stick. I decided it didn't matter and wrote a mini-benchmark program to clock it and set the limits for each speed by observation. They're supposed to send me a spec sheet and programming information. B.T.W. I went to my 10 year Nicolet reunion this weekend. You remember Glen Shires? I used to hang out with him. Turns out that he designed the Mach 20 accelerator board, as well as the Breakthru 286 board. He worked for Intel for a couple years and then designed one of the boards by himself and sold the design to the big boys. He also wrote bunches of Intel databooks. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1464 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1467 06-30-88 01:15 (Read 141 times) from: DAVID NYE to: ALL subject: CLOCK Does anyone know which port the CMOS clock chip (MM58167A) on a DTK Multi-I/O board uses? Or have a clock driver they could upload for such a board? I never got one when I got the board and lost the one I'd copied from a friend when my hard drive crashed. I've tried all of the ones I could find here but none works on my machine. Unfortunately there is no standardization in the clone world of the clock port. If your clock driver is not public domain, perhaps you would consider disassembling it to find the port address. Thanks. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1468 06-30-88 03:04 (Read 142 times) from: PETER EIBL to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PC FOR SALE Reply to #1465 Hi Glen, Before I start breaking the system up I wnat to give it some time as a complete unit...if I get no response in a week or two I will consider splitting it..Will need $100.00 for the tape drive and 6 tapes. The unit is 1/2 hight and uses the floppy controller as a card, if you have a controller that can handle 4 floppies you will not have to give up your 2nd floppy...it's also possible a cable can be made up with 3 connectors but I have not tried this so it's a shot in the dark Pete --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1478 07-01-88 03:27 (Read 151 times) from: PETER EIBL to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PC FOR SALE Reply to #1471 Hi Glen, will let you know..give me about 2 weeks Pete >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1468 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1469 06-30-88 11:10 (Read 146 times) from: BENTLY TURNER to: ALL subject: UPGRADING NEC EL LAPTOP Hi all, I have a friend with a problem and we are looking for help. He has a NEC Multispeed EL Laptop Computer with 2 3.5" (720K) disk drives. He is looking to increase storage capacity using a harddrive or 1.44Meg Floppy Disk Drive. Questions: 1) Does anyone know of a source where these items can be added to this machine. (NEC, the original vendor, can't do it because the built-in power source won't support a HD and no controller card exists to add a HD. 2) If you know of any sources what types of warranty information can you give me about these add-ons? He would really appreciate any information that you might have. Thanks, Bently Turner --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1529 07-12-88 12:15 (Read 130 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: BENTLY TURNER (Rcvd) subject: R: UPGRADING NEC EL LAPT Reply to #1469 If NEC won't upgrade your 720k stiffy drives to 1440k, then you can't do it. They require a much faster transfer rate (like 1.2mb 5.25" floppies) and the existing controller electronics oon the NEC motherboard won't do it. As far as a hard disk goes, there are now advertised in Byte and Computer shopper various 3.5" hard disks that have super-low power requirements. But you still need a controller. The Multispeed has NO expansion slots, as far as I know, true? HOW does one add the hard disk controller to such a machine? Buy a Zenith Z-183... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1469 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1538 07-12-88 23:56 (Read 134 times) from: MARK TELLIER to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: UPGRADING NEC EL L Reply to #1529 Tom, The NEC's have a FD controller port on the rear panel. If a unit was designed for the NEC it could take advantage of this facility. - mwt - >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1469 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1544 07-13-88 10:26 (Read 136 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: MARK TELLIER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: UPGRADING NEC EL L Reply to #1538 Right, the NEC has a FD controller, that brings its i/o pins out to an external jack, but the man wanted to know if he could put a 1.44 mb floppy drive on, and that's just not plug'n'play on the 720k style controller. Ya gotta have a more capable controller. I doubt he can do what he wants . >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1469 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1555 07-14-88 22:51 (Read 141 times) from: MARK TELLIER to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: UPGRADING NEC EL L Reply to #1544 Tom, Your're right. I missed the 1.44M requirement. Best I think you will get on a NEC is 720K drive. Hope I didn't miss lead any one. - mwt - >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1469 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1561 07-15-88 20:09 (Read 144 times) from: BENTLY TURNER to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: UPGRADING NEC EL L Reply to #1529 Tom, Thanks for responding to my hardware question. I was seeking this info for a friend of mine who bought the NEC. Alas, he will kick himself for not taking into account expansion capabilities....But he is a neophyte in the PC world. If he would have considered this all important issue, he may have went with the Zenith....or a desktop XT or AT. I will relay your comments to him. Question....do you own a Zenith? Bently Turner >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1469 reply #5 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1571 07-18-88 11:19 (Read 140 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: BENTLY TURNER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: UPGRADING NEC EL L Reply to #1561 As I am up to my armpits in computers at work, I do not actually own a PC of any make. The only computer I own is a circa 1975 DEC LSI 11/02 mini computer. But we did sell a lot of Zenith equipment, and I like the Z-183. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1469 reply #6 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1470 06-30-88 18:44 (Read 150 times) from: BENJAMIN LANKHEET to: ALL subject: FORMATING DRIVE D PROBLE I have a western dig controller card and am trying to install a new (actuallyy used) 10 meg Miniscribe as drive D. It has 611 cyl and 2 heads and ll of my format software thinks it has 4 heads and won't format it. I think the problem is on the board and the jumper settings but cannot figure out how to set them to allow a low level format of my drive D. Anyone have any help out there? I am really stuck. Spent about 8 hours so far trying to figure it out. Benjamin Lankheet --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1562 07-16-88 12:42 (Read 145 times) from: BENJAMIN LANKHEET to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: FORMATING DRIVE D Reply to #1530 Tom, thanks for the note. We called WD and got the propper jumper settings that the contorller needed to find the D drive. All works well now. I appreciate your interest. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1470 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1472 06-30-88 20:40 (Read 149 times) from: RICHARD AKESON to: ALL subject: WHAT THINK RE: TANDY A friend of mine is thinking of purchasing 3-5 computers for his engineering department. He needs to run AutoCAD occasionally, and run some database, spreadsheet, and word processors most of the time. He is thinking of buying Tandy 3000 or 4000 models because they are inexpensive and Tandy will be here to service them, whereas other clone vendors may not. I have NO knowledge of the Tandy line. Any information that you could provide me re: the reliability of these machines and how well suited to the above applications (especially AutoCAD) they are would be greatly appreciated. Any of you AutoCAD vendors want to do a package deal on 3++ ACAD packages with or without some good clones to run it on? -RCA- --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1475 06-30-88 23:40 (Read 161 times) from: DON RANDALL to: ALL subject: ZEOS 286 & REFRESH CHANG Well, the ZEOS 286 arrived yesterday. I tested it and sure enough it was 12Mhz with no wait states on the read but one wait state on the write. The DRAMS were faster then what the 286 called for and I asked ZEOS about it and they said that since I selected the 28Ms drive the faster ram was necessary to avoid wait states from the hard disc. Nice that they knew that. The unit had one lose connector and the keyboard seems wrong in that the function keys are on top and the ctl-esc-etc keys are different The total cost was $1,700 with 512K of ram. I read the same PC Mag article on the refresh rate change. Sysinfo went up to 8.2 on my Sperry 286 put then seemed to fall back again. I can only surmise that two DMAs work together in refreshing the memory and changing the timer on one didn't effect the other. It seemed to take a few seconds before it caught. Edit a file and put the following in it without the comments. Replace the LL with '00' and the HH with '50' to start. N QFRESH.COM ;NAME = QFRESH.COM A 100 ;Start Assembler MOV AL,74 ;Select timer #1 for a 16 bit OUT 43,AL ; number to count down in binary MOV AL,LL ;Insert low byte value OUT 41,AL MOV AL,HH ;Insert the high byte value OUT 41,AL INT 20 ;Exit to DOS ;Stop assembler line number (blank line req) R CX ;Call CX register E ;Tell how many bytes to write to disk W ;Write the file Q ;Quit debug and exit (this is last line) then enter DEBUG<the above file's name. QFRESH has now been created. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1477 07-01-88 03:14 (Read 152 times) from: CHRIS GOODEY to: ALL subject: QFRESH -PC MAG Anyone have any experience with the QFRESH utility from PC Magazine? I tried it with my 10Mhz 1 W/S Everex 1800 AT clone, and got very, very minor improvement. I used several speed checking routines (but not the infamous Norton SI, which is not only worthless but a terrible disservice to the entire industry because it is so misleading, ) anyway, using PCTOOLS my speed went from a 4.75 to a 4.85 with a minor QFRESH change, above that no change until finally the machine just started locking up. Is their something different about my hardware, or is this QFRESH idea just worthless of only for very specific machines? --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1482 07-01-88 12:27 (Read 157 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: CHRIS GOODEY (Rcvd) subject: R: QFRESH -PC MAG Reply to #1477 Chris, I tried it on my IBM mod 339 with similar results. Norton's SI (it was handy) went from 7.7 to 8.0 and held steady there until I increased the wait enough to get a parity error. The speed up was about half what I expected. I haven't tried it on my old PC at home yet. Since it has a PC-Sprint board, I don't know how much room I have to improve. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1477 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1483 07-01-88 19:41 (Read 154 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: CHRIS GOODEY (Rcvd) subject: R: QFRESH -PC MAG Reply to #1477 Chris, rather than use the cumbersome approach to QFRESH used in PC Magazine, I wrote a quick-and-dirty QB 4.0 program which accepts command line arguments for the high byte and low byte to set the memory refresh rate. This made it easy to experiment with various settings. I'm running an 8mhz true-blue AT. I quickly found that any high-byte setting other than "0" produced a parity error. Using the PC Magazine "BENCH4" benchmarking series, I played around with the low-byte setting and learned several things. First, a low-byte setting of 26 approximates the value set at bootup (i.e., the performance you could expect to see if you didn't alter the memory refresh rate at all). Second, I didn't see parity errors until I reached a low-byte setting of about 144. Third, I continued to see performance improvements up to a low-byte setting of about 112; after that, I saw either no improvement or deterioration. I finally selected a low-byte setting of 96. This was a value beyond which performance improvement was trivial and was comfortably within the reliability envelope. Oh, yes, Norton's SI did, indeed, go from 7.7 to 8.0. I now execute my QFRESH reset in my AUTOEXEC. Perhaps the improvement isn't that substantial, but it's absolutely free. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1477 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1484 07-01-88 19:52 (Read 156 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: JOE VINCENT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QFRESH -PC MAG Reply to #1483 Joe, Could we interest you in uploading your QB effort? I have been using a file from Micro Cornucopia of about a year ago. It is here in another form as "NREFRESH.ARC" as I recall. I got a boost in SI from 3.8 to 4.2 using it but, as you pointed out, it is a pain to modify the thing. And as you also said, it is free! -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1477 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1487 07-02-88 11:17 (Read 168 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QFRESH -PC MAG Reply to #1484 Steve, when I said "quick and dirty," I wasn't kidding. I'm reluctant to upload the program without adding some elegance (e.g., checking command line parameters) and some documentation, but I have no problem with including it in this message to use at one's own risk, so here 'tis: DEFINT A-Z ' Get command line parameters and extract low/high byte reset values CommandLine$ = COMMAND$ BlankPos = INSTR(CommandLine$, " ") HighByte = VAL(LEFT$(CommandLine$, BlankPos - 1)) LowByte = VAL(RIGHT$(CommandLine$, LEN(CommandLine$) - BlankPos + 1)) ' Display extracted values PRINT "HighByte = "; HighByte PRINT " LowByte = "; LowByte ' Reset memory refresh rate OUT 67, 116 ' Select timer 1 for a 16-bit number ' and to count down in binary OUT 65, LowByte ' Insert low byte value OUT 65, HighByte ' Insert high byte value PRINT : PRINT "Memory refresh reset.": PRINT END Once you've compiled the program (although it could be made to work as a BASICA program), you execute it from the DOS command line as: QFRESH 0 96 assuming that you've named the program "QFRESH" and want to use "0" and "96" as your high-byte and low-byte parameters, respectively. Of course, you can specify whatever values you want. Once I finished my tweaking, I placed the above line in my AUTOEXEC. Since there is absolutely NO checking of command line parameters, you must be VERY careful to enter two all-numeric parameters separated by a blank. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1477 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1488 07-02-88 20:32 (Read 160 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: JOE VINCENT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QFRESH -PC MAG Reply to #1487 Joe, Thanks, that will simplify things a great deal. I really didn't expect you to enter it that way, but I sure do appreciate it. Thanks again -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1477 reply #5 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1479 07-01-88 03:46 (Read 154 times) from: PETER EIBL to: ALL subject: AT MEMORY CARD I just recently aquired a 4 meg memeory card forn an AT called a RAMBANK what I need to find out is the dip switch settings for this card and if it requires any software..don't know if this is a Extended or expanded memry card..all the card says is RAMBANK REV2 made in Taiwan any help will be appreceated Pete --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1531 07-12-88 12:27 (Read 132 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: PETER EIBL (Rcvd) subject: R: AT MEMORY CARD Reply to #1479 Try calling PMA @ 415-968-5755 and asking for the number for the tech support people. Tell them you think you may have a #7200 board, or a MEMO200AT board. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1479 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1540 07-13-88 03:33 (Read 140 times) from: PETER EIBL to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: AT MEMORY CARD Reply to #1531 Thanks for the Number Tom, will give it a shot Pete >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1479 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1481 07-01-88 07:36 (Read 149 times) from: DAN ROBBINS to: ALL subject: HP VECTRA KEYBOARD We have 5 HP Vectras and would like to look at alternative keyboards. Can anyone tell me if the "standard" 101-key units could be adapted to HP's machine? My concern is that HP uses such an unusual plug that I suspect compatibility problems with "generic" key{oards. Thanks for the help. Dan... --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1486 07-02-88 09:26 (Read 153 times) from: DAVE CLAY to: ALL subject: CUSTOMER ENGINEERING TRK Does any one know how to un-mark the Customer Engineering track which I marked as bad but don't have a program to un-mark it? "Curiosity killed the cat" and some day it is going to get me too. While unassembling a copy of the "Pakistan" virus, I got very tired and may have executed it. My next evenings activity was to do my semi-annual low level format of all hard disks. While playing with various disk managing program s, I marked the "Customer Engineering" tracks on both hard disks as bad. Norto n doesn't support FAT editing of the FAT for the CE track. Where is the FAT for the CE tack? Is there a shareware program that will edit the CE FAT? Can I read the CE track to see if the bulk (or hulk) of a virus is stored there? Does Norton's WIPEDISK also wipe the CE track? I have the DOS Technical Reference and the IBM AT Technical Reference books, but don't know where to look. Any help would be much appreciated. BTW the "Pakistan" virus works by making a very small modification to the boot record (which is a .COM file). The bulk of the mischief is stored on 3 consecutive sectors which are first marked as "bad". If CHKDSK suddenly notes a an additional 1.5k of bad sectors, LOOK OUT! Thanks, Dave Clay --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1532 07-12-88 12:30 (Read 130 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: DAVE CLAY (Rcvd) subject: R: CUSTOMER ENGINEERING Reply to #1486 The bad track data is not stored in the FAT as far as I know. Not low-level anyhow. Try a program called MARK*.* or something-- it has MARK and UNMARK options. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1486 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1490 07-03-88 04:52 (Read 160 times) from: PETER EIBL to: DAN MEISSNER subject: R: AT MEMORY CARD Reply to #1489 Hi Dan, thanks very much for the info and software..will notify Bob to get rid of the file.... Pete --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1491 07-04-88 01:55 (Read 162 times) from: RICK PODRAZA to: TOM DULLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 386 TESTS Reply to #497 Tom, I've got an old AT style keyboard I'll sell you for $40. Soap & Water? --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1493 07-05-88 23:19 (Read 158 times) from: TOM DULLER to: RICK PODRAZA (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 386 TESTS Reply to #1491 Rick, Thanks but no thanks. I ended up tearing the whole thing apart and cleaned it out good. No more problems so far. ==Tom== >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1491 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1498 07-08-88 11:20 (Read 150 times) from: RICK PODRAZA to: TOM DULLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 386 TESTS Reply to #1493 Glad to hear it. Good luck. --->Rick<--- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1491 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1494 06-07-88 03:47 (Read 148 times) from: PETER EIBL to: ALL subject: PC FOR SALE F O R S A L E IBM CLONE....Xt Turbo (8Mhz) 640k No Monitor (see Note) AT style case.......... 1 360K Floppy 1 30 meg hard drive (full Hight RLL) 1 10 meg Irwin Tape Backup (internal with 3 tapes $90.00 value) Clock/Calender/Parrallel/Serial/Game port Choice of 10 or 12 function key Keyboard (AT STYLE) $800.00....or offer note: for an additional $125 will include Hercules Mono Card and SamSung Monitor (Amber) CALL..476-6447 after 5:00pm weekdays after 10:30am Sat. and any time Sundays or leave message here Pete Eibl --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1497 07-08-88 09:10 (Read 144 times) from: DON ELLIOTT to: ALL subject: INTEL INBOARD/PC Has anyone out there successfully integrated an Intel Inboard/PC 386 card into a Leading Edge Model D? For us cheapskates, or rather those with kids looking tuition in the face, this looks to be an attractive speedup choice, but I hate to fly blind. Any data? Thanks in advance Don Elliott --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1499 07-09-88 16:07 (Read 143 times) from: CHRISTOPHER OTTO to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: FLAKY CHIP cc: CADD PLUS Hiya Tom.... Sometimes, when my Everex AT clone runs for a while on these really hot days, my computer will reboot when I don't want it to. It's just as if I had pressed Ctrl-Alt-Del, and it seems like it happens in response to some other keystroke. I know that everyone is going to tell me to go in there with a can of Freon and start freezing chips to find the bad one(s), but I'd like to know which would be the most likely offenders... Thanks, Chris --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1500 07-09-88 23:41 (Read 144 times) from: PHIL KATZ to: CHRISTOPHER OTTO (Rcvd) subject: R: FLAKY CHIP Reply to #1499 Your Spiritualessness, Before you go rumaging around in your hardware (hopefully in the privacy of your own home), have you ruled out software as the cause of your problem? Do you have more memory resident programs than bOB has files?? Have you recently installed any new software or upgraded any programs? It's been my experience that most hardware faults will cause the machine to simply lock up tight. Rebooting is basically a software activity, unless the hardware fault is actually toggling the reset signal on the system board. >Phil> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1499 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1501 07-10-88 00:13 (Read 141 times) from: CHRISTOPHER OTTO to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: R: FLAKY CHIP Reply to #1500 No, Phil, I haven't changed any of my software. Sometiems, when it's really bad, it'll reboot several times while trying to complete the POST. Sounds like hardware to me. Could it be a power supply problem, maybe??? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1499 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1502 07-10-88 12:42 (Read 140 times) from: JOSEPH NEIBRAND to: CHRISTOPHER OTTO (Rcvd) subject: R: FLAKY CHIP Reply to #1499 Chris, I had a similiar problem with one of my computers. It would decide to reboot itself whenever it felt like it. The warmer the unit the more often it would do it. It turned out to be a faulty power supply that would drop a couple of cycles which is all it needed to reboot. Being that the power supply is probably the greatest heat producer in the box it would stand to reason that it would get the hotest. Make sure you are not restricting the air flow in any way. I replaced the power supply in my computer and that took care of the problem for me. I ran it for six months after that without a single reboot. Joe >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1499 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1507 07-10-88 23:51 (Read 136 times) from: NICK KEES to: CHRISTOPHER OTTO (Rcvd) subject: R: FLAKY CHIP Reply to #1499 I agree with Joe Niebrand and your hunch that it probably IS the power supply. Similar to Joe's experience, I had a computer that would reboot spontaneously, whether I was typing a key or not. The thing that tipped me off was that when the computer was restarting, like going through POST, the power supply fan stopped and stayed stopped. The fan didn't restart until I manually turned off the big red switch and turned it back on again. But I think the PS is the first place to check. Nick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1499 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1508 07-11-88 00:14 (Read 138 times) from: PHIL KATZ to: CHRISTOPHER OTTO (Rcvd) subject: R: R: FLAKY CHIP Reply to #1501 Chris, Yes, the power supply is one of the few hardware devices in the system that controls the "power good/reset" line as a matter of normal operation. If the power supply decides that the power level isn't good, it can reboot the computer for you. >Phil> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1499 reply #5 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1512 07-11-88 13:13 (Read 136 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: CHRISTOPHER OTTO (Rcvd) subject: R: FLAKY CHIP Reply to #1499 Look for an 8284, sorry, for an AT clone that will be an 82284. But if it really happens when you push a key, borrow another keyboard and run that for a week or so. There is an 82xxx chip, or 82xx or 81xxx or something (real precise, eh?) that does the receiving of keyboard data. I can t remember what chip that is. Maybe somebody else knows. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1499 reply #6 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1514 07-11-88 17:45 (Read 135 times) from: CHRISTOPHER OTTO to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: R: FLAKY CHIP Reply to #1508 re: "...it can reboot your computer for you." How very thoughtful of it... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1499 reply #7 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1522 07-11-88 22:27 (Read 134 times) from: JOSEPH NEIBRAND to: CHRISTOPHER OTTO (Rcvd) subject: R: R: FLAKY CHIP Reply to #1514 Chris, I would like to suggest one thing to do before you opt. for a new power supply. When my computer started giving me intermitant reboots, I opened it up AFTER I disconnected it from the power source. Take off the ribbon cable CAREFULLY that comes from the power supply to one of the boards and clean all those contact pins with a soft eraser, the type you use to erase a pencil line. After a thorough cleaning, replace the cable and try it. I was able to get it to work for several weeks after such a cleaning whereas before it would reboot almost daily. I limped along like this for several months till I got tired of all this fooling around and had the power supply replaced. Good luck! Joseph Neibrand >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1499 reply #8 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1524 07-11-88 23:23 (Read 133 times) from: MARK TELLIER to: CHRISTOPHER OTTO (Rcvd) subject: R: FLAKY CHIP Reply to #1499 Chris, I had a Compaq power supply with the systems you describe. Eventually, I had it replaced, but for a few years, I inhibited the problem by regularly vacuuming out the power supply. Normally, a lot of dust collects around this area of the machine (because of the fan) and reduces the cooling ability of various critical parts. Remember to unplug the machine from the wall before beginning. Vacuum cleaners (and vacuum cleaner operators) don't like 120 VAC from unauthorized sources. If nothing else, it doesn't cost anything to try. - mwt - >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1499 reply #9 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1533 07-12-88 12:34 (Read 134 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: R: FLAKY CHIP Reply to #1500 Gee, phil, I dunno. It still sounds like it could be hard ware, although I'm sure a big pile of TSRS could make the guys computer reboot, if one ran amuck. But don;t you have to load a register and execute a jump or interupt just right to get a clean reboot? I wonder if he's cold-booting and going thru a POST or just getting warm boots. He seems to say that he's warm booting, which sounds a little more like a software problem. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1499 reply #10 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1534 07-12-88 12:38 (Read 134 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: CHRISTOPHER OTTO (Rcvd) subject: REBOOTS Reply to #1512 On reflection, phil & Joe are right, there is a "DC ok" line that watches the powersupply and reboots if it gets weird. Try hanging a meter on the +5 line and watch it under various loads (floppy running, etc. ). Get a good digital meter. Or just swap the power supply. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1499 reply #11 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1503 07-10-88 15:25 (Read 137 times) from: TIMOTHY BOWSER to: ALL subject: COMPAQ PARTS Looking for a Compaq or equivalent power supply for a 286 motherboard that is being used as the basis for a BBS upgrade. Any help in this area, including a power pinout for the 286 board is appreciated. E-mail either here or on the Enterprise BBS in Marquette, Mi. (906)228-9460. Thanks Tim Bowser --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1504 07-10-88 17:32 (Read 135 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: ALL subject: ALLCARD / DV Does anyone have any knowledge of the ALLCARD being sold by Quarterdeck to regisstered DV users? Am I to understand that it takes control of expansion memory boards (pre 4.0 EMM, non-hardware 4.0 EMM, etc.) and allows their use with DV as if the boards were hardware 4.0 or EEMS boards? This all seems too good to be true, especially for the price! The ads I've seen are somewhat less than clear on this point. Thanks in advance for any assistance. -[Steve]- --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1510 07-11-88 10:02 (Read 135 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: ALLCARD / DV Reply to #1504 Steve, The AllCharge Card does what it says. It's for 286 machines and basically gives them 386 type memory management. Another user on this board, Tom Bruce, has installed one on his AT clone and it makes Desqview run like it was meant to. Leave Tom a message if you want more details. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1504 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1517 07-11-88 20:35 (Read 136 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: ALLCARD / DV Reply to #1510 Glen, Thanks yet again. I'll do that. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1504 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1594 07-20-88 14:57 (Read 146 times) from: JAMES LAPOINTE to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: ALLCARD / DV Reply to #1510 What type of performance does the Allcharge card give you when you work with Desqview? Are there any compatibility problems that you are aware of? Would you consider buying another? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1504 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1596 07-20-88 20:26 (Read 147 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: JAMES LAPOINTE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: ALLCARD / DV Reply to #1594 James, I don't have an Allcharge card. Tom Bruce does. Since I have an oldie goldie PC, I just run Desqview with EEMS memory (an AST Rampage). To date Tom has not mentioned any significant problems with the card. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1504 reply #4 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1505 07-10-88 20:36 (Read 137 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: ALL subject: HEAT? After recently installing a Miniscribe 3675 60 meg hard disk above my Seagate St238, I began to get problems accessing either drive after running for about an hour. If I rebooted, I was suddenly back to the Wonderful World of the 2 Floppy System with an invalid drive message when I would try C, D, or E. I suspect that this may be a heat problem, with either the 135 watt power supply or the infamous Adaptec 2070A controller combining with the recent weather. Would it be possible or practical to install a second muffin fan externally over the exhaust port of the power supply? Can anyone suggest an alternate explanation for suddenly being unable to access either drive? --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1509 07-11-88 06:34 (Read 137 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: HEAT? Reply to #1505 David, Two fans should help. There was a discussion on here about that about a year ago and a few guys reported doing it. But I think your main problem comes from the fact that the MiniScribe is ON TOP of a 238. Try moving the floppies to the bottom and BOTH hard drives to the top, next to each other. That way the heat from one drive, which rises, will not add to the heat from the drive above it but will be drawn off by the fan/fans. This should help. Also, if heat is a problem, you might try to re-format the drives after two hours or so of use, after they get good and warm. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1505 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1516 07-11-88 19:42 (Read 137 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HEAT? Reply to #1509 Thanks, Steve, but out of four half height drive bays, only two are open at the front for floppy drives. The hidden ones have the hard disks. I don't know why most of the case manufacturers close off those bays;I'd like to put a 3.5" floppy in one and keep my two 5.25" drives, too. Also, reformating after the disks heat up probably wouldn't work, because once they're hot, I usually can't access them at all. I ran last night for about 3.5 hours to see when I'd be denied access("invalid drive..."), and when I finally decided to shut down, I did a three finger salute and THEN got denied access. Till then, no problem. If the external fan doesn't work(saw some REAL cheap at American Scientific, about 54th& Layton), I may go to an external drive box with power supply, and then I'll have room for another floppy, too. Thanks again and wish me luck! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1505 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1518 07-11-88 20:46 (Read 134 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HEAT? Reply to #1516 David, Sorry about that, I ass_u_me'd that you had four exposed bays.That's a mistake I won't make again! I do think that reformatting the drives hot will work, tho, because I once did it at the suggestion of another user here for the exact same reason. The heat apparently expands the media or deforms it in such a manner that it can no longer be read. But if you boot from floppy and then lo-level, format and fdisk it the drive will (should) work when hot as well as when cold. I'm not sure if this explaination is understandable but the results WERE! Anyone care to jump in here? I believe Arny Kreuger (sp?) recommended it to me about a year ago when three drives dumped on me within a month due to Seagate's problems. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1505 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1521 07-11-88 22:11 (Read 134 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: HEAT? Reply to #1505 You could look into one of those Turbo Cool power supplies. $150 i think is the price, but they have 2 fans on top and the top of the power supply is slanted towards the front of the computer to allow greater flow. That same company also make just an add on fan that straps to the back of the power supply. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1505 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1539 07-12-88 23:56 (Read 135 times) from: NICK KEES to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HEAT? Reply to #1516 Actually, formatting the disk when warm, while there is no reason it shouldn't work, won't solve all your problems either. I know someone who did just that, and now her computer won't boot at all some days, until she lets it warm up for about half an hour. Then everything is fine for the rest of the day. I keep telling her she should do something about it, but she considers it not really "broke", so she's not fixing it. Nick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1505 reply #5 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1506 07-10-88 21:53 (Read 131 times) from: DANIEL DAVIDSON to: ALL subject: APRICOT F-1 I am looking for any hardware information on an Apricot F-1 computer. The one that I have does not have any video to the monitor and I don't have the schematics on the thing. The company has since quit making this computer and nothing is available as far as internal schematics go. If anyone has a set of schematics or an address where I might obtain some information please drop me a line. THANX, Dan --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1511 07-11-88 12:19 (Read 144 times) from: DAVID BANOCY to: ALL subject: VEGA VGA CARD I have a NEC Multisync and a Vega VGA display card. The pinout on the monitor allows only for a DB-9 connector, however the multisync does have a switch that can be toggled to change from digital to analog mode (I.E. True VGA). My problem comes from the fact that my video card has two places in which a video cable can be connected; the 1st is a DB-9 (Which I am currently using), but it is only for Hercules, CGA, EGA, and digital VGA. If I do want to use the Analog aspect of the Vega card I must connect my video cable to a rather strange connector. The connector is about size of a DB-9 connector, but has 3 rows of 5 pins. I have tried calling various people about obtaining a cable, but everyone that I have spoken to needs a pinout of the cable crossing from the 15 pin connector to the nine. I do know that it is possible to use this card with my monitor, since the manual that came with the card specifically mentions the NEC Multisync. One last thing, from what I have heard so far the 15 pin connector may be the same one that is used on the new PS/2 line, but I'm not sure of that. Does ANYONE have any idea, or any suggestions on what I can do to obtain, or even make this cable ??? Thanks David Banocy --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1513 07-11-88 17:35 (Read 150 times) from: JOHN REDFORD to: DAVID BANOCY (Rcvd) subject: R: VEGA VGA CARD Reply to #1511 Check with NEC. the multisyncII has the same cable, BUT NEC supplies a 9-15 pin adaptor with each monitor, so you can take advantage of either the Analog or TTL type video adaptors. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1511 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1523 07-11-88 22:33 (Read 141 times) from: JOSEPH NEIBRAND to: DAVID BANOCY (Rcvd) subject: R: VEGA VGA CARD Reply to #1511 David, I am running a NEC Multisync Plus on my Vega VGA and the monitor came with both cables. I would suggest you check with a dealer as they should be able to supply you with one. Joseph Neibrand >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1511 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1543 07-13-88 09:49 (Read 147 times) from: DAVID BANOCY to: JOSEPH NEIBRAND (Rcvd) subject: R: R: VEGA VGA CARD Reply to #1523 I will contact NEC today about obtaining the cable that I need to do the conversion from 9 -> 15 pins. Thanks for your help. David Banocy >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1511 reply #3 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1515 07-11-88 18:47 (Read 134 times) from: LEONARD BEWERSDORF to: ALL subject: MONITOR HOOKUP I have an XT clone with a CGA card connected via a 9 pin connector to the RGB port of a Sears TV/MONITOR. I'd like to connect the PC to the color TV to get additional colors for Flight Simul. etc. but am not sure what I need. The TV/MONITOR has a three way toggle, TV,video, and RGB and two RCA female plugs for the video input and the standard cable and reg. TV connectors. Any idea what I need and/or where to get it? Thanks.. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1520 07-11-88 21:28 (Read 139 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: LEONARD BEWERSDORF (Rcvd) subject: R: MONITOR HOOKUP Reply to #1515 Leonard, Get an RCA type patch cord. The same one that you use for your stereo. Connect it from the RCA plug on the CGA card to the video input on the tv. Leave the RGB cable in place. You can now switch between RGB mode and composite video mode. Flight simulator will show better scenes in video mode, while text programs will look better in RGB mode. You might have to spend $1.79 for the cable. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1515 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1526 07-12-88 01:49 (Read 134 times) from: LEONARD BEWERSDORF to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MONITOR HOOKUP Reply to #1520 Glen - the CGA card doesn't have an RCA jack. It's got a 9 pin and a printer interface. I had an old 9 pin male from a kaput joystick and a male RCA jack with wiring and tried each and/or all the individual wires from the 9 pin with the RCA jack plugged into the video RCA female. I got a black and white, somewhat distorted picture with one configuration but not much else. I wonder if there might me a cable with a 9 pin connector and an RCA jack? If I knew more about what I was doing, I suppose I could try and make a direct wiring connection to the CGA card....but...any further suggestions now that I've given you more complete info about the CGA? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1515 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1535 07-12-88 18:10 (Read 137 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: LEONARD BEWERSDORF (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MONITOR HOOKUP Reply to #1526 Leonard, Oh boy, you've got one of the clone CGA cards like the Hercules. If you have any doumentation, see if it mentions any way to get composite video off the card. It's a little tough to map the RGB to composite video in a connector. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1515 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1536 07-12-88 18:44 (Read 136 times) from: LEONARD BEWERSDORF to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MONITOR HOOKUP Reply to #1535 I have a booklet written in Taiwanese English. I'll take a look and see if it refers to composite video...thanks again. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1515 reply #4 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1519 07-11-88 20:50 (Read 132 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: TOM BRUCE (Rcvd) subject: ALL CHARGE CARD Tom, You were recommended to me, so here goes. I have read all of the ads AND the thread here regarding the subject card. Conspicuously absent was any mention of an XT or clone. Does this card only work on an AT class machine? If so, is there anything which will do the same deed for an XT class machine? Thanks in advance... -[Steve]- --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1563 07-16-88 12:46 (Read 140 times) from: TOM BRUCE to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: ALL CHARGE CARD Reply to #1519 Steve, Yep, the All ChargeCard is for ATs and compatibles only. However, I know that All Computers also makes a card for PCs and XTs. I believe that it gives you many of the same functions as the ChargeCard; but I am not certain of its exact capabilities since I through out the marketing literature from them some time ago. Suggest calling All Computers, Inc. at (416) 960-5426. P. S. The ChargeCard will run on PS/2 and XT-286 machines. Regards, >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1519 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1566 07-16-88 20:24 (Read 145 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: TOM BRUCE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: ALL CHARGE CARD Reply to #1563 Tom, Thanks for the reply. Actually, I found the answer to my first question in the fine print at the bottom of the ad when I read it again. Sorry! But I am glad to hear that they may have a card that will function in an XT machine. Thanks for the number also, will call them on Monday. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1519 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1527 07-12-88 11:59 (Read 126 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: ALL subject: KEYBOARD I took my keytronics 5151 off my machine and put a different "enhanced" 101-key type on it. Surprise, surprise, some of the keys don't work! Certain keys beep twice (press and release) and may or maynot transmit the keystroke expected. The keys that don't work are the special ones. Example, the new kbd has separate arrow and numeric keypads. The numeric pad works fine, the separate arrows do not. The new kbd has 2 CTRL keys, and 2 ALT keys. The second of each don't work on my computer. It has F11 and F12 keys, normally ignored, on my computer they scream at me. It has other keys that don't conform to the scancode standards (I guess) and therefore (apparently) don't work right. The keyboard has a switch labeled AT on one side and PC/XT on the other. I don't remember which way it worked, but in one position it was totally stone dead, and the other way it worked as above. Any ideas? Keep my KB5151? Punt? --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1541 07-13-88 04:24 (Read 139 times) from: ROB GREENBERG to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: MYLEX? Tom, I was just reading through past messages in this conference and ran across a message from you talking about various replacement motherboards. In this message, you mentioned negative aspects of the Mylex motherboard. You mentioned that it was impossible to toggle the speed (16 mhz vs 6 mhz) through software. You also mentioned that the board only had 1 32 bit slot, not compatible with an Intel 32 bit slot. I know there are more than 1 model of the Mylex motherboard shipping. The most common one, (the one Steve Gibson talked about in Infoworld) has no 32 bit slots and the speed can be switched easily through software (by pressing <CTRL> <ALT> <-> to slow down, <CTRL> <ALT> <+> to speed up). Mylex says that there is no standardization for 32 bit slots, and the only boardthat really benefits from a 32 bit path is memory boards. Since their cache has about a 90% hit rate, the 32 bit slot wouldn't make *that* much difference. By the way, if I added a resistor to my speaker circuit, would that quiet it down? Right now I've wired an on-off switch to the speaker circuit for quiet operation, but would really like my speaker quieter. Cardboard didn't muffle the speaker enough. Can I simply wire a resistor into the on-off switch? If so, what resistor? Rob --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1542 07-13-88 06:13 (Read 133 times) from: BRIAN KIEHNAU to: ROB GREENBERG (Rcvd) subject: R: MYLEX? Reply to #1541 Rob Try a 100ohm pot or a 50ohm pot and then set it for the volume you like. Brian >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1541 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1545 07-13-88 10:33 (Read 132 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: ROB GREENBERG (Rcvd) subject: R: MYLEX? Reply to #1541 The data I uploaded about motherboards was posted quite a while ago. I posted it for the interesting fact that a major computer manufactor was having discussions over motherboard choice, and we mere mortals are not usually privy to such. If you want, you could take your switch out completely and replace it with a 100 ohm potentiometer. ("pot"). A value that small will be hard to come by, I know radio shack only goes down to 10k or so, but they used to have trimmer pots designed to mount on edge on a pc board. Those can be had in smaller values. The smaller the better, but below 20 ohms (impossible to get anyhow) you won;t be able to make it quiet enough. Solder one end lead to the center lead, and then to the speaker lead from the computer. Connect the remaining end lead to the speaker. Using a fixed resistor would be an incredible amount of trial-and-error, mostly error. Unless you happend to have a lot of small value resistors laying around. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1541 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1548 07-13-88 19:55 (Read 135 times) from: ROB GREENBERG to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MYLEX? Reply to #1545 cc: BRIAN KIEHNAU Thanks, Tom, Brian. I'll give it a shot. Rob >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1541 reply #3 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1546 07-13-88 19:40 (Read 128 times) from: HAROLD WOODWARD to: ALL subject: SURGE PROTECTORS I'm new to using Surge protectors, could someone please tell me which of the following ways is the best way of assuring maximum protection of equipment and briefly why. 1) Leave Surge Protector always on and only turn off equipment. 2) Turn off both equipment and Surge Protector when not in use. 3) Leave equipment turned on and turn off by switch on Surge Protector. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1577 07-19-88 16:06 (Read 129 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: BRIAN KIEHNAU (Rcvd) subject: R: R: SURGE PROTECTORS Reply to #1550 We just picked up a new line of surge supression equipment that's more economical to sell. They range in price from $36 to $50 and the better ones have EMI/RFI filtering, and modem protection jacks as well. Some have nice little remote power switches. We sell several units for under $25. At thise prices, playing the odds isn't very smart anymore. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1546 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1581 07-19-88 19:37 (Read 130 times) from: BRIAN KIEHNAU to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: SURGE PROTECTORS Reply to #1577 Tom I still feel that people that sell that stuff feed on peoples fears and not there actual needs for protection. This is my personnal opinion from my experience working with Industrial Electronics and all the noise spikes and dips that is common place in a factory setting. Brian >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1546 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1547 07-13-88 19:49 (Read 131 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: ALL subject: NEW HARD DISK Well, I've been fighting the space problem on my Seagate ST225 too long now and have decided to upgrade it. One of the drives I'm considering is a Microscience 3650, a 40 MB unit. PC Source/Compu-Add has it for $375 but for $40 more they have an RLL controller that boosts the space to 60 MB. Not a bad deal for $40. When I called, they said the controller was a Western Digital but I didn't know that WD made any RLL controllers. Anyone have any comments on the combination? Is the 3650 ok for RLL? Am I better off sticking with MFM? A lot of people sell the MS drive for about the same price but I haven't seen anyone selling it with an RLL controller. Any help towards this decision will be greatly appreciated. glen --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1551 07-13-88 22:16 (Read 136 times) from: HAROLD WOODWARD to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: NEW HARD DISK Reply to #1547 To the best of my knowledge the 3650 is a 40 MB 61 M.S. drive. The Miniscribe 3675 is 65 Meg 61 M.S. The 3675 is RLL certified and 65 Meg is with RLL coding. You can get the 3675 mail order for about $350. You may also want to consider the Seagate 277R. The Seagate is 65 Meg 40 M.S. using RLL coding (it is RLL certified) and you can get it for as low as $409. I'm using the Seagate on a 12 MHZ AT Clone with the Adaptec 1:1 controller with the Drive formatted at a 1 to 1 interleave, and I have no problems at all. By the way I pulled CORE27 off the Mahony section (it measures Hard Drive Access times) and it says the data is being transferred at 752 KB/Second. Harold Woodward >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1547 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1556 07-14-88 22:55 (Read 135 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: NEW HARD DISK Reply to #1554 I just installed a Miniscribe 3675 above my Seagate ST238 and am running them off the notorious Adaptec 2070A RLL controller and so far the only problem has been excessive heat. I used the software that came with the drive to make two 31 meg partitions. WD makes a half card RLL called the 27X. I've been helping a friend upgrade a PC and we're putting in a 27X and Miniscribe 8438 drive. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1547 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1557 07-14-88 22:58 (Read 137 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: NEW HARD DISK Reply to #1556 David, Thanks for the info. I've been a little hesitant about RLL since some people reported problems with the first controllers and drives. But by now I figured that all the bugs would have been worked out. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1547 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1564 07-16-88 14:34 (Read 136 times) from: HAROLD WOODWARD to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: NEW HARD DISK Reply to #1554 Just looking through the August issue of Computer Shopper, Quick Electronics has an add on page 387 for the 277R for $379 this will be about the lowest you will get. As far as an RLL Controller card for a PC they generally run about $50 To $100 in the Shopper I'd more or less just pick a place with a large add. I didn't like the partitioning software it came with (ontrack) fortunately I had a controller card and a version of DOS (3.3) that supports making "logical drives" on a hard drive. With DOS I made 2 drives C: and D: both taking up 32 Meg. The Reason I didn't like Ontrack was how it made the "split", it came up with three options some thing like this: 1) 1 Meg/64 Meg 2) 32 Meg/20 Meg 3) 40 Meg Lastly, when you order the controller make shure you specify you want to use a 65 Meg Hard Drive With it. There are some Controllers that Have Size Restrictions. If your not familiar with Low Level Formatting a Hard Drive it is implemented using Debug, at the prompt type G=C800:5 and follow the prompts. Good Luck --------------------------------------------Harold Woodward >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1547 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1573 07-18-88 22:49 (Read 133 times) from: NICK KEES to: HAROLD WOODWARD (Rcvd) subject: R: R: NEW HARD DISK Reply to #1572 Actually, what I think he's asking is what is the smallest file possible on your hard disk. That is, do a DIR on some directory. Write down the number of bytes free. Then do a COPY CON TEST.FIL on one line, then type a "1" or some other single character, hit F6 (and see a ^Z appear on screen) and return. Then do a DIR again and subtract to find the difference. That will be your cluster size. For instance, if you have 8K clusters, even a 1 byte file will take up 8K (8192 bytes). Nick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1547 reply #5 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1578 07-19-88 16:09 (Read 130 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: NEW HARD DISK Reply to #1547 I personally don't like uSci drives. I've had troubles with them. Just for comparison, our shop will install a WD RLL controller with a Seagate ST-238R drive (30mb formatted) for $360, including formatting, tetsting, and loading DOS and utilities. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1547 reply #6 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1582 07-19-88 19:56 (Read 131 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: NEW HARD DISK Reply to #1578 Tom, Based on my and other's experience with Seagate, I decided on the Seagate 277R. With controller it was $460. Now the only problem will be backing up all that space. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1547 reply #7 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1598 07-22-88 00:19 (Read 140 times) from: BENTLY TURNER to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: NEW HARD DISK Reply to #1547 Like you I have a Seagate ST-225. I can relate to using up 20MB real easy. In an effor to upgrade, I 've looked at trading my Seagate for a 30/40 MB unit. You mentioned going with MFM or RLL encoding for Controller Cards. What are pro's / con's of each... I know RLL can squeeze more storage onto a drive (i.e. 30Mb on 20Mb unit)... How much can RLL squeeze on a 40Mb unit? I also have been looking into purchasing a HARDCARD. I see prices are some what competitive, easier installation (I have open slots on P.C. and not enough room in XT for additional half-height unit without giving up 1 of my 2 floppies....which I wish to keep. Bently Turner >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1547 reply #8 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1610 07-23-88 23:23 (Read 141 times) from: NICK KEES to: BENTLY TURNER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: NEW HARD DISK Reply to #1598 RLL can squeeze 50% more onto any hard disk with which it works. But the drive has to be rated properly before it will work. So, for instance, the ST277R is a 60 meg drive which is just like an ST251 40 meg, rated for RLL. But normally you pay more for the higher rating. Nick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1547 reply #9 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1626 07-25-88 11:53 (Read 137 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: BENTLY TURNER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: NEW HARD DISK Reply to #1598 Bently, From everything I've heard here, one must make sure that a drive is certified for RLL before attempting to use it as such. If you don't, There are grave problems ahead. Seagate makes this easy by suffixing an 'R' to the drive identifier to indicate that is is RLL certified. The ST-238 is not while the ST-238R is. The drive I'm getting is a ST-277R. It's a 40 MB drive that formats out to 60+ MB. That should be plenty of space. System unit space is not a problem since I plan on selling my ST-225 and freeing up its slot and drive bay. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1547 reply #10 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1627 07-25-88 12:03 (Read 135 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: NEW HARD DISK Reply to #1626 It's a little hard to tell if a ST-238 is RLL rated or not. New ST-238R drives ARE rated for RLL, New ST-238 are NOT, but older ST-238s might be. Seagate changed the way it marks some drives and for a while ST-238's were not marked with an R but were RLL rated and worked well. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1547 reply #11 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1634 07-25-88 18:23 (Read 131 times) from: JOHN REDFORD to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: NEW HARD DISK Reply to #1627 I think all the st238's are RLL rated. They have always been advertised as 30mb drives and the only way you are going to get 615 cyls and 4 heads to 30mb is with RLL format. With MFM they format out to 20mb just like the st225. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1547 reply #12 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1637 07-25-88 21:08 (Read 133 times) from: BENTLY TURNER to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: NEW HARD DISK Reply to #1626 Thanks for the clarifying the distinguishing identifiers foregate Hard Disks (....R - rating for RLL compatiblity). I've shopped around and am considering adding another Seagate ST-225 (20MB) to my existing ST-225. Thus I'll get a total of 40 MB. The place I bought mriginal hard disk is giving me a good price on a second unit if I buy from them. They priced the ST-238~QlwvMEO7$oR and the ST-277 but they wanted a little more than I was willing to pay. Bently Turner >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1547 reply #13 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1648 07-26-88 16:53 (Read 131 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: JOHN REDFORD (Rcvd) subject: R: R: NEW HARD DISK Reply to #1634 I'm not so sure. I think there were ST-238's that were not reliable for RLL, tho there were not nearly as bad as trying to format ST-225's under RLL encoding. I think they thought the plated media was good enough, but it wasn't in some cases. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1547 reply #14 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1652 07-26-88 21:33 (Read 135 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: BENTLY TURNER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: NEW HARD DISK Reply to #1637 Bently, I considered adding another ST-225 to my system but decided against it for a few reasons. The cost of another ST-225 was about $230. I can sell my old disk and controller for $175. A new 40MB with RLL controller is about $400. That makes it a few dollars cheaper to get a complete new disk. With the 60MB going for just over $400, It's like 20 MB free. My existing ST-225 is a bit noisy so I'm hoping for a quieter drive. The ST-277R is a 39msec access drive which should give the system a slight boost in speed. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1547 reply #15 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1655 07-26-88 22:26 (Read 130 times) from: BENTLY TURNER to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: NEW HARD DISK Reply to #1652 Glen, Looks like sound reasoning to me.... Go For It!!!!! Bently Turner >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1547 reply #16 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1673 07-27-88 22:16 (Read 132 times) from: HAROLD WOODWARD to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: NEW HARD DISK Reply to #1626 Just thought I'd mention something about that 277R. I have an AT Clone with the Adaptec Controller. I've had a 277R installed for about a month. I have had no problem whatsoever. I have it formatted at a 1:1 interleave and it really screams (752KB/SEC at 12 MHZ). I'm shure you'll be pleased with the drive. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1547 reply #17 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1970 08-22-88 06:02 (Read 124 times) from: STEVE MORGAN to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: NEW HARD DISK Reply to #1578 READERS, I'm NOT TRYING TO STARRT A WAR. There is already one on other boards, but the Seagate drives especially their half height RLL's have been known to have problems. I could NEVER recommend a ST-238 and Adaptec when for $30 or $40 more I could purchase the Miniscribe 8438. For those of you who have fast computers the 8438 F (40 MS. drive) can be purchased for a little more. The major problem with many of the Seagate half heights is they over rate their stepper chips and eventually they die. This is a very common problem with the ST-251, ST-238, ST-225. I was told this by a Techie at a Hard drive repair shop. My suggestion is be safe and DON'T buy Seagate. Steve Morgan >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1547 reply #18 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1974 08-22-88 12:33 (Read 124 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: STEVE MORGAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: NEW HARD DISK Reply to #1970 Steve, I would never tell you not to express an opinion, but we have been thru this and more or less arrived at the consensus that Seagate's eralier problems with the ST-238R have been fixed. We ourselves got stung by a few, but we now sell little else, and they don't come back for service. Any other opinions, people? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1547 reply #19 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1979 08-22-88 22:19 (Read 123 times) from: NICK KEES to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: NEW HARD DISK Reply to #1974 Well gee, I sure hope Steve Morgan is mistaken about the 251s anyway. I'm responsible for the placement of dozens of those suckers around the area and if they all go bad I'm in deep ____! And it makes you wonder how Seagate can advertise now suddenly that the ST225s are now field proven to give 30,000 hours MTBF. Why would they suddenly now start advertising that unless they just had a few top that mark without failure. Of course they can say whatever the heck they want in their advertising, but you'd think we would have seen something more in the trade press. Maybe it's like marijuana leading to heavier drugs. About 99% of heroin users say they started with pot, but that doesn't tell squat about what percent of pot smokers went on to heavier stuff. In the same way, a disk repairman saying that all Seagates come in with dead stepper chips doesn't mean that a lot of drives have bad stepper chips, just that the drives that do go fail in that way. Nick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1547 reply #20 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1980 08-22-88 23:47 (Read 123 times) from: DAVE PINGEL to: NICK KEES (Rcvd) subject: R: R: NEW HARD DISK Reply to #1979 I am surprised that anyone would make such far ranging statements regarding the reliability of Seagate drives, the most price competative drives on the market, and recommend Miniscribe. My office is right next to the PC room at work, You should have heard the nois the Miniscribe made as it crashed. Based on my experience, I would recommend that no one ever buy a Miniscribe (Snicker). Dave >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1547 reply #21 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1981 08-22-88 23:48 (Read 122 times) from: MARK TELLIER to: STEVE MORGAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: NEW HARD DISK Reply to #1970 Steve, What do you mean by "overrate their stepper chips"? - mwt - >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1547 reply #22 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1985 08-23-88 06:44 (Read 121 times) from: STEVE MORGAN to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: NEW HARD DISK Reply to #1974 Tom, The main reason I barked about the Seagate half heights is because of their return policies. I know of a sysop here in Longmont that purchased 10 ST-238's and all of them went bad. Seagate refused to refund his money and they are presently fighting it out in court in Boulder. I also have run into a problem with the ST-238's running O.K. for three or four months and just crapping out. I just couldn't just sit here passivly and read about all of the Seagate recommendations without putting in my two cents. My personal experience with Seagate is just average. It took Seagate 3 tries before they send me a good warranty return from Florida. Once they returned a ST-225 stating there was nothing wrong with it. I sent it to Brockway and I was told the stepper chip was bad, they replaced it and it is running with no problems today. To sum it up in my opinion Seagate is NOT the top of the line. If those buying hard drives would spend $10 - $30 more they can purchase the Miniscribe drive, preferably the 8000 series. Which I consider to be superior & 8425 & 8238 are 3 1/2" drives. The drive that made Miniscribe the 40 meg full height tanks are slowly being phased l out by the new 1/2 heights. Miniscribe claims their new 1/2 height 40 meg. has a service life of 40,000 hours. That rates with CDC and CORE. Steve Morgan >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1547 reply #23 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1986 08-23-88 06:51 (Read 123 times) from: STEVE MORGAN to: MARK TELLIER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: NEW HARD DISK Reply to #1981 Mark, According to Paul at Brockway Disk Technologies Seagate used one basic microprocessor to control the stepper functions while most other drive manufacturers use two one for input one for output. Cronically the half height Seagate die of the stepper chip dieing before any other symtom. The bearings are aircraft quality beaings and rarely go bad unless the drive aborbs alot of shock. You can tell a Seagate half height is near death by if it sounds as though something is rapping inside the drive when it starts up. Steve Morgan >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1547 reply #24 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1987 08-23-88 07:15 (Read 122 times) from: STEVE MORGAN to: DAVE PINGEL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: NEW HARD DISK Reply to #1980 Nick, One man's heaven is another's hell. I'm sorry to hear of your Miniscribe crashing. Was it less than a year old? Did you know if it was that Miniscribe would replace the drive no questions asked? All you need is a RMA #. They have been really good to me and Seagate acts as though they couldn't care less. As far as the ST-251's go I have seen one fail in maybe twenty, but I thing the guy using it was trying to RLL the drive. Seagate incorporating an autopark feature sure is an improvement. The ST-251's seem to be alright so far. I hope Seagate is using their new stepper chips on them. Steve Morgan >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1547 reply #25 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1990 08-23-88 19:31 (Read 122 times) from: DAVE PINGEL to: STEVE MORGAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: NEW HARD DISK Reply to #1987 All the people I know who have recently purchased hard drives have purchased Seagate 251's. Mine is over a year old... works great has good speed. None of the people I know have ever had a failure. I am a real Seagate fan. But then I like PCTOOLS too. (snicker snicker) Dave >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1547 reply #26 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1997 08-24-88 06:12 (Read 119 times) from: STEVE MORGAN to: DAVE PINGEL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: NEW HARD DISK Reply to #1990 DAVE, Yeah I like PC Tools too their rebuild facility is great. For those of you interested in reading more on the Seagate drives please call the Sparta board 1-201-729-7056 and participate in the hard drive confrence. One other thing I liked about the Miniscribe products is they test their MFM drives on the Perstore controller and provide support to those who do try a Perstore on a Miniscribe MFM drive. Steve MOrgan >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1547 reply #27 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2003 08-24-88 14:56 (Read 128 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: NICK KEES (Rcvd) subject: R: R: NEW HARD DISK Reply to #1979 Agreed. Ever see a book called _101 ways to lie with statistics_? MTBF figures are pretty useless, as a rule. MIPS really stands for "Meaningless Information for Purposes of Sales hype". And I too have placed a lot of Seagates around town. The best deals I've able to get for my customers have often, nay usually, Seagates. I do business with one of Seagate's original "super-VAR's" and they do good by me. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1547 reply #28 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2006 08-24-88 19:59 (Read 131 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: NEW HARD DISK Reply to #2003 Tom, Any idea where a guy can get that book? I read it years ago (actually 'HOW TO LIE WITH STATISTICS') and I would love to have a copy for my own. After all those years I get a little rusty on some of the tricks. Really a very interesting book, tho. Used widely by the print and broadcast media today, I'm sure. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1547 reply #29 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2026 08-26-88 16:49 (Read 126 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: NEW HARD DISK Reply to #2006 Walden's can order anything in print. I tried to get an old John Christopher trilogy (The Tripods Trilogy) for a long time before having them order it. They looked it up on a micro-fishie and had it for me in 10 days. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1547 reply #30 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2029 08-26-88 23:51 (Read 126 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: NEW HARD DISK Reply to #2026 Thanks, Tom. I'll give Waldens a try. I'm in there at least once a week anyway. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1547 reply #31 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2057 08-29-88 14:16 (Read 120 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: NEW HARD DISK Reply to #2029 If you read science fiction/fantasy/fact, check into the otherworlds club at Waldens. Free to join, and 10% off on s/f purchases over $5. I think. I just bough a book called "Who Censored Roger Rabbit?" that seems to be the original source for the movie "Who Framed...". Havent read it yet. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1547 reply #32 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2069 08-29-88 20:25 (Read 123 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: NEW HARD DISK Reply to #2057 Tom, Thanks for the tip. I'll check on that one also. Sounds interesting! -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1547 reply #33 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2122 09-04-88 04:14 (Read 120 times) from: JIM DUNNIGAN to: NICK KEES (Rcvd) subject: R: R: NEW HARD DISK Reply to #1979 I wondered about those Seagate 30,000 mtbf ads also. I suspect they are being a little cute. The figure was probably derived from estimates of current HD use versus repair rates. The 30,000 hour figure could vary quite a lot depending on what the use figure was. However, they may have called a sample of users and gotten hours of use estimates from users. Whatever the case, the 30,000 hour figure probably isn't too out of whack with reality. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1547 reply #34 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1549 07-13-88 20:48 (Read 135 times) from: BILL PREW to: ALL subject: COURIER HST MODEMS Can anyone who knows where I can get Courier HST modems at low prices leave me a message with the name, address, number and price info. I'd like to purchase a couple, but don't want to pay more than I have to. Thanks, Bill --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1553 07-14-88 19:45 (Read 138 times) from: BOB BELL to: ALL subject: ORC TECHNOLOGIES I'm considering purchasing an IBM AT clone from a Mass. company called ORC Technologies. They offer: 6/10 mhz; .5 meg; 101 kyboard; Toshiba 1.2 meg floppy; parallel/serial/game port; EGA + Samsung 14" monitor; 60 meg Seagate w/controller; full 3 yr. warranty; for $1988. I can't find a better deal, but I'm weary of getting what I pay for (very little)! I would appreciate hearing about anyone's experiences with the company, good or bad. Thank you. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1565 07-16-88 14:51 (Read 140 times) from: HAROLD WOODWARD to: BOB BELL (Rcvd) subject: R: ORC TECHNOLOGIES Reply to #1553 In general it seems like a reasonable deal. However be advised I have a Toshiba 1.2 Meg floppy and when I format at 1.2 Meg non-Toshiba 1.2 Meg drives can not read it. I've been told tha this is a common problem with the 1.2's, however in another machine I have a Mitsubischi that seems to do fine reading other drives except the Toshiba. As far as other features, does it have a "click" keyboard, what's the interleave on the Hard Drive. I know of two other Computers in this Price area you may want to consider. They are from Zeos International and Northgate Computer Systems you can check them out in any recent issue of Computer Shopper. A friend of mine has the Northgate and I have the Zeos. In general they will run about 500$ more but I suspect these companies have been around a lot longer, take a close look at the support on their warrantees. Also be advised that If you got the $1988 from a magazine it is probably about $200 more now. Magazine adds are generally made up at least 3 or 4 months ahead of time so it takes awhile for a price hike to catch up with them. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1553 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1558 07-15-88 02:32 (Read 136 times) from: ROB GREENBERG to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: LESS SOUND Tom, I looked at the local Radio Shack for a 100 ohm potentiometer, but couldn't find one. I bought a 500 ohm pot, a 33, 68, and 100 ohm resistors. The 500 ohm pot was too large (I figured it probably would be when I bought it). I tried the resistors and the 33 ohm resistor worked perfectly. It neatly cuts in half the sound from my speaker. Thanks again, Rob --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1559 07-15-88 11:04 (Read 135 times) from: GEORGE KOFMAN to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: ESDI HD Tom, I am thinking of getting an Everex Step 386/20 with a Micropolis 1355 ESDI Hard Drive and WD 1005 ESDI controller. Since you are the in-house (or in-exec-pc) hardware expert, I wanted to get your opinion of this combination. This system will be used to run SCO Xenix/386. Let me know what you think. George M. Kofman. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1560 07-15-88 12:27 (Read 137 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: GEORGE KOFMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: ESDI HD Reply to #1559 Being the conference leader doesn't make me an expert on anything. And in mathematics an X is an unknown quantity, and in plumbing a spurt is a drip under pressure, so an expert is really just some unknown drip under pressure. I'm not the conference leader for my ability, just my availability. Ask Bob, he knows. Anyhow, the Everex box you mention is quite often mentioned in connection with SCO Xenix 386, the two are supposed to be a good match. You really have to need all that speed real bad to spend all that money. Do you? If you really gotta have the performance of a 386 box that is that quick, then that machine has a reputation for one of the better price/performance ratios in the business. That's this week, of course. Tomorrow, somebody will market a 80486 based box that runs at 26.77 mHz, no wait states, 32 mb of RAM, 320mb of 6ms hard disk, and costs $1k. What I'm saying is that all I know about the box is that it's supposed to be a heck of a lot of bang for your buck. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1559 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1567 07-17-88 15:33 (Read 140 times) from: HAROLD WOODWARD to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: ST-277R Also, check out Computer Products Corp page 140 August Shopper $459 kit Drive, Controller, Cables, Software and Instructions. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1568 07-17-88 21:39 (Read 139 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: ALL subject: AST XFORMER Does anyone have any info on this motherboard? To be specific, does it enable you to define ALL memory as EEMS like their computers alledgedly do? Any idea on a price? I have seen a picture of it(!) and that is about all. Any first hand experience would sure help. Thanks... -[Steve]- --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1570 07-18-88 07:48 (Read 138 times) from: AL HANSEN to: ALL subject: COMPAQ HD'S I'm thinking about getting a new Compaq 386S. Would like to add a second HD to the system. Can the Conner HD that Comapq uses be purchased from other sources besides authorized dealers. I'm thinking about a 40 or 110 meg 3 1/2 HD (ESDI capable). Any ideas?? Thanks, AL -- --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1579 07-19-88 17:12 (Read 132 times) from: PHIL PUCCI to: AL HANSEN (Rcvd) subject: R: COMPAQ HD'S Reply to #1570 Al, I have only seen ads for the Conner HD, but, for what it's worth, Compaq owns a big chunk of Conner Peripherals. PdP >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1570 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1584 07-19-88 20:41 (Read 134 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: PHIL PUCCI (Rcvd) subject: R: R: COMPAQ HD'S Reply to #1579 cc: AL HANSEN Phil & Al, I was talking to some Compaq reps today and they said that the Conner disks are now appearing in a number of clones. They figured that if they were gonig to lose the system sale, they might as well get something from the components. They didn'tmention where the drives were available. Got to see the 386/25 today, a super fast machine. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1570 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1585 07-19-88 20:43 (Read 133 times) from: AL HANSEN to: PHIL PUCCI (Rcvd) subject: R: R: COMPAQ HD'S Reply to #1579 Phil, Where did you see the Conner ads ? Thanks for your reply. AL -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1570 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1586 07-19-88 20:47 (Read 135 times) from: AL HANSEN to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: COMPAQ HD'S Reply to #1584 glen This must be the NEW EXEC-PC ON-LINE chat mode! It would be great if you could find out a couple names for me. Compaq dealers closely guard all of their trade secrets, must have something to do with a margin. . I'd like something that idles along at 25 mhz, but it's too much for my personal funds, so I'm looking at the 386S instead. The 386 for the rest of us! AL -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1570 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1589 07-19-88 22:38 (Read 138 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: AL HANSEN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: COMPAQ HD'S Reply to #1586 Al, Got to try the 386s for a little while. Since it was at the dealers, I didn't have all my test routines to see how well it does. It felt like a zippy 286/12. The big advantage willbe the 386 architecture in a reasonable priced box. I think we will stop buying 286s in favor of the 386s. Did learn one interesting thing about the Compaq keyboards. They are all interchangable. The Compaq III and 386 can be unplugged and a real desktop keyboard put in place. The 386s has a new keyboard with a much better feel. A lot more tactile feel. It still has the keyclick that can be turned off with Ctrl-Alt-Minus. Now to figure out how to get one. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1570 reply #5 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1590 07-20-88 07:29 (Read 139 times) from: AL HANSEN to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: COMPAQ HD'S Reply to #1589 glen, I haven't had an opportunity to actually get my hands on a 386s, they are hard to come by in this area. I'm working with a local dealer, who says he can get one in two or three weeks, sure would like to try it out first. I've read three reviews on it, two (PC Mag/PC Week) sound very positive. I didn't get much from the PC World article, maybe thats why I'm letting that one lapse into non-renewal. Let me know if you get one. AL >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1570 reply #6 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1591 07-20-88 08:29 (Read 141 times) from: PHIL PUCCI to: AL HANSEN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: COMPAQ HD'S Reply to #1585 Al, Mini-Micro Systems. It is a journal oriented to systems integrators. Very impressive ad! I clipped it for a friend when they announced their IPO. PdP >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1570 reply #7 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1574 07-18-88 22:58 (Read 133 times) from: RICK PODRAZA to: ALL subject: TANDY 1000 MODEMS Perhaps someone knows....... I'm considering 2400 internal modems for an IBM XT now being used by one of my clients. Now here's the dumn question. They also have a Tandy 1000 If we were to decide later to use the Tandy instead of the IBM, would the internal modem work (even fit?) in the Tandy. ----->Rick<----- --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1575 07-19-88 11:52 (Read 134 times) from: PETER OZOLINS to: RICK PODRAZA (Rcvd) subject: R: TANDY 1000 MODEMS Reply to #1574 Rick, I own a Tandy 1000 and use an external US Robotics Courier 2400 baud modem. I think that any half slot internal modem would work. If I was you I'd just get an external, since the T-1000 only has 3 expansion slots. Talk later, Pete >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1574 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1576 07-19-88 14:08 (Read 132 times) from: DON BOYLAN to: ALL subject: COMPAQ PARTITION OUR COMPANY JUST PURCHASED A COMPAQ 386/25 WITH A 110 MB HD PARTITIONED TO ONE LOGICAL DRIVE. I WAS WONDERING IF THIS WAS THE MOST EFFICIENT (FASTEST) PARTITION POSSIBLE? ALSO, WOULD THE COMPAQ VIDEO CARD FIT IN ANY PC OR IS OPTIMIZED FOR THE 386? BY THE WAY IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE VGA ON THE COMPAQ 25MHz, SIMPLY INCREADIBLE. THANKS. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1580 07-19-88 17:15 (Read 132 times) from: PHIL PUCCI to: DON BOYLAN (Rcvd) subject: R: COMPAQ PARTITION Reply to #1576 Don "UPPER CASE" Boylan, The Compaq VGA card will .NOT. work in ANY PC. It is a 16-bit card which requires a 16-bit bus (AT-style) found on 286 and 386-based PC's. PdP >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1576 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1583 07-19-88 20:34 (Read 131 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: PHIL PUCCI (Rcvd) subject: R: R: COMPAQ PARTITION Reply to #1580 PdP, The Compaq VGA should work in all PC's since it can be set for 8 bit mode. I haven't actually tried it yet so I can't guarantee it. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1576 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1592 07-20-88 09:19 (Read 144 times) from: CHUCK CONNOR to: ALL subject: PARADISE AUTO EGA AND OS My name is chuck connor. I have been trying unsuccessfully to boot/load OS/2 IBM's version on an IBM AT with a Paradise AutoSwitch EGA card the operating system seems to load up to the point of displaying some messages that are in color on the monitor at which point the monitor goes blank the initial messages from OS/2 the copyright etc. are displayed fine but after the operating system has loaded or so it seems the screen goes blank and only a warm boot will allow you to continue. HELP HELP HELP HELP Is the paradise autoswitch EGA compatible with OS/2. !!!!!!!!!!! My voice line is (301) 650-4340 (w) My voice line is (301) 490-8107 (h) after 8:00 pm EST Thanks in advance for your help --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1595 07-20-88 16:03 (Read 144 times) from: AL HANSEN to: CHUCK CONNOR (Rcvd) subject: R: PARADISE AUTO EGA AND Reply to #1592 Chuck, As you suspect the Paradise card may be the culprit. EGA cards MUST have register levecompatibility with the IBM EGA card in order to function properly with IBM OS/2. You do have the IBM version of OS/2, right? AL -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1592 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1662 07-27-88 07:49 (Read 125 times) from: CHUCK CONNOR to: AL HANSEN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PARADISE AUTO EGA Reply to #1595 Al thanks for the reply I talked to the Paradise people and they told me that I would have to disable the autoswitch feature on the board they told me that I needed to turn switches 2+3 on and everything else off. unless their switch is marked wrong or I read it wrong this didn't work. I reversed all of the switch positions and now its workining fine with OS/2. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1592 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1664 07-27-88 14:54 (Read 122 times) from: AL HANSEN to: CHUCK CONNOR (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PARADISE AUTO EGA Reply to #1662 Chuck, How do you like being a beta test site for OS/2 ?? Glad Paradise was able to help, at least now we know their board works on OS/2 1.0 ... You may want to check into the program in the Mahoney collection for a nice os/2 app. LOGICOMM.ARC. AL -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1592 reply #3 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1593 07-20-88 12:58 (Read 149 times) from: RICHARD SEASTRAND to: ALL subject: MONITOR/VGA HOOK UP I OWN A 'MAGAVOX MULTIODE' MONITOR AND WISH TO BUY A VGA GRAPHICS CARD TO DRIVE IT. BUT LOOKING THROUGH LITERATURE AND REVIEWS ON VARIOUS BOARDS I SEE THAT MOST ARE EQUIPPED WITH A 9-PIN DIGITAL OUTPUT AND A 15-PIN ANALOG OUTPUT. MY MONITOR HAS A 9-PIN INPUT AND AN ANALOG/DIGITAL SWITCH. I WAS WONDERING IF I CAN RUN VGA USING THIS MONITOR AND IF SO 1) HOW WOULD I HOOK IT UP AND 2) WOULD I HAVE TO SWITCH THE MONITOR TO ANALOG WHEN RUNNING VGA AND TO DIGITAL WHEN RUNNING EGA, CGA, ETC. ALL COMMENTS WELCOME. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1597 07-20-88 21:03 (Read 154 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: RICHARD SEASTRAND (Rcvd) subject: R: MONITOR/VGA HOOK UP Reply to #1593 Richard, First, if you turn off the damned caps-lock, you'll get a lot more replies to your questions. The VGA card outputs analog signals on a 15 pin connector. The EGA uses a digital 9 pin connector. Your monitor can accept either signal, depending how the switch is set. The VGA card will always output analog signals, even when emulating EGA or CGA modes. You may need a different cable, Maganovox may make one or you might have to build one yourself. The manual should list the pinouts for it. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1593 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1599 07-22-88 00:34 (Read 134 times) from: BENTLY TURNER to: ALL subject: HARDCARD I am looking to add a hard disk card to my XT compatible.... I have read several PC Magazine Reviews on hardcards. I was wondering if any of you are currently using hard disk cards. If so, I'd like your opinions of them. I will be using the hard disk card as Drive 2 ... I already have a 20 MB Seagate ST-225 installed in my machine. Will I have any compatibility problems between hard disk card and hard disk drive? How about reliability especially if hard disk card uses RLL technology? Any replies will be greatly appreciated. Bently Turner --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1628 07-25-88 12:12 (Read 132 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: BENTLY TURNER (Rcvd) subject: R: HARDCARD Reply to #1599 I'm not real keen on drivecards, and if you have an existing drive, it would be quite difficult to add a drive card. You'd have two controllers, and that's hard to do. We can add a drive to your existing controller, if you have space to mount it. A 20mb drive is $323 if you install yourself, but that's with a controller. I haven't got a price w/o controller at my fingertips. For $400 (installed) we can put a 30 RLL controller in, with a ST-238R drive. You'd get 32 meg of space and faster performance. You don't have a drivecard type drive now, do you? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1599 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1638 07-25-88 21:19 (Read 132 times) from: BENTLY TURNER to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARDCARD Reply to #1628 Tom, I currently don't have a hard card installed in my unit, but I do have a Seagate ST-225. It may be possible to install a second half height drive in my box above my existing hard drive. I know I could remove a floppy and place the second drive in its place. However I would like to keep my original floppy drives. You mentioned that "you" could install a second unit in my computer. Who are "you"....A local store? If so which one and where are you located? How much would an install of the following Cost: 1) A 20MB hard drive as a 2nd Drive in My existing configuration? 2) Would the $400 30MB Drive be installed as a 2nd Drive or as a replace ment? I really don't want to spend $400 for an addition 10MB. Is it possible for an ST-238 to coexist with an ST-225? I'll be waiting to hear from you as I am looking to add on within the next few weeks. Bently Turner >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1599 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1649 07-26-88 17:02 (Read 131 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: BENTLY TURNER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARDCARD Reply to #1638 Depends a little on your DOS version. Some versions don't support the second drive directly, and we have to do a little messing around. That costs more. If you have room to mount another hard disk, your second ST-225 will cost you $315 installed and tested. Open your machine up and see if you might perhaps have some hidden equipment bays next to the ones your floppy drives are in. You could put a hard disk there. Putting ST-238's on the same controller with a 225 doesn't work unless both are formatted to 21mb which implies an MFM controller which is a waste of a ST-238. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1599 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1654 07-26-88 22:24 (Read 127 times) from: BENTLY TURNER to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARDCARD Reply to #1649 Tom, I am currently running MS-DOS 3.2 and I have my ST-225 installed in the bay next to my floppy disks. The bay appears to be large enough to add a second hard drive. I currently have a Commodore PC 10-2 (640k , 2 360k floppy disk drives, XT compatible) and the drive bay is extremely large. The first drive went in like a champ, although adding a second drive looks like it may be a little cramped...(But I may have an untrained eye). The 2 floppy bays are accessible from the front of my machine. The hard drive is located inside my chasis and is not accessible from the front of my unit. I think it would be a breeze to install a half-height unit in one of my existing floppy bays, but I would really like to keep both my floppies. In addition, I may upgrade one of them to either 3.5 inch or High-Density 5 1/4 floppy. Thus, the second drive must be mounted internally above my existing hard drive.....Question is it good for 2 hard disk units to physically rest upon one another....Are there problems with heat build-up? Bently Turner >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1599 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1666 07-27-88 16:56 (Read 122 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: BENTLY TURNER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARDCARD Reply to #1654 You won't upgrade one of your floppies to a 5.25" high denisty drive-- it isn't possible with the existing controller. But the second HD should be o sorry, no problem at all. It won't rest on the other- it's have mounting screws of its own. And heat build-up it not supposed to be a problem, but I've never worked on a Commondore PC before. That's why the install cost is not fixed, but is likely to float between $50 and $75. It depends on what we have to do to get it to go. Call (voice) 414-964-6330 if you want to set up a time to do the work. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1599 reply #5 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1669 07-27-88 19:55 (Read 123 times) from: BENTLY TURNER to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARDCARD Reply to #1666 Tom, You've been real helpful in helping me assess the addition of a 2nd hard drive. You' mentioned several factors related to cost. Can you give me an itemized breakdown of what you would charge to install this unit. You say that install cost ranges between $50 - $75 (What does that include). Also factor in controller and hard disk unit cost. I'd like the worst and best possible scenarios as close as you can get, if that's possible. Bently Turner >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1599 reply #6 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1723 08-01-88 11:03 (Read 125 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: BENTLY TURNER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARDCARD Reply to #1669 $270 FOR THE DRIVE, $50 TO INSTALL, FORMAT, TEST, AND LOAD YOUR DOS, AS WELL AS A LARGE SELECTION OF THE BEST PROGRAMS FROM THIS BOARD. FOR A SECOND DRIVE WE DON'T INSTALL DOS. UNLESS YOU WANT. THE INSTALL COST CANNOT BE PINNED DOWN BECAUSE I'VE NEVER BEEN INSIDE THE EXACT MACHINE YOU OWN. ITS LIKE ANYTHING ELSE, WE HAVE TO PAY A TECHNICIAN BY THE HOUR, EVEN THO HIS SUPERVISOR (ME) IS ON SALARY. YOU PAY FOR WHAT IT TAKES TO DO THE JOB. I COULD CHARGE A FLAT $100, BUT WHY NOT GIVE YOU A BREAK IF WE DON'T SPEND 2 HOURS ON THE JOB? I CAN'T SEE IT TAKING MOR THAN 1.5 HOURS, AND IF IT DOES, WE'LL EAT IT. OR GIVE UP AND NOT DO THE INSTALL. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1599 reply #7 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1600 07-22-88 18:58 (Read 138 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: JAN HARWELL (Rcvd) subject: WELCOME! Congratulations on your upgraded PC. I'll call as soon as I get offline. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1601 07-22-88 21:25 (Read 146 times) from: HOWARD RUBINSTEIN to: ALL subject: DELL SYSTEM 310 Well, my new PC limited 368-20 mghz machine has finally arrived (after 3 months) and I thought that I would upload some performance tests on it. The three tests were performed using 4.77, 8.0, and 20 mghz speeds respectively. The machine is performing very nicely so far. The only complain other than the backorder situation is that even though the machine does come with 1 meg of ram onboard, only 640K is accessable. The other 384K is used for BIOS routines. So if you need a ramdisk, you must immediately purchase additional ram. The tech department is getting all kinds of heat about this since Dell makes a big deal out of putting 1 meg in the machine. Other than that, it is a very well built machine both in and out. If anyone has any questions about it, please just leave me a note. 4.77 mghz IMMMMMMMMMMKMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMKMMMMMMMMM MM; : fDESIGNS : IBM COMPATIBLE PERFORMANCE ANALYZER : (C) 1986 : HMMMMMMMMMMJMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMJMMMMMMMMM MM< Copyright (C) 1986 Richard B. Johnson Checking memory block write ticks: 333 compared to IBM/PC 151% Checking register to memory ticks: 360 compared to IBM/PC 136% Checking memory to register ticks: 360 compared to IBM/PC 136% Checking register to register ticks: 357 compared to IBM/PC 154% Checking divide by register ticks: 79 compared to IBM/PC 648% Checking divide by memory ticks: 176 compared to IBM/PC 343% Checking multiply by register ticks: 93 compared to IBM/PC 517% Checking multiply by memory ticks: 116 compared to IBM/PC 480% Checking stack operations ticks: 412 compared to IBM/PC 108% Checking far jumps, far calls ticks: 499 compared to IBM/PC 104% Total time is: 2785 clock ticks, (154 seconds) compared to IBM/PC 185% 8 mghz IMMMMMMMMMMKMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMKMMMMMMMMM MM; : fDESIGNS : IBM COMPATIBLE PERFORMANCE ANALYZER : (C) 1986 : HMMMMMMMMMMJMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMJMMMMMMMMM MM< Copyright (C) 1986 Richard B. Johnson Checking memory block write ticks: 165 compared to IBM/PC 306% Checking register to memory ticks: 179 compared to IBM/PC 274% Checking memory to register ticks: 179 compared to IBM/PC 273% Checking register to register ticks: 179 compared to IBM/PC 307% Checking divide by register ticks: 39 compared to IBM/PC 1312% Checking divide by memory ticks: 89 compared to IBM/PC 678% Checking multiply by register ticks: 46 compared to IBM/PC 1045% Checking multiply by memory ticks: 58 compared to IBM/PC 960% Checking stack operations ticks: 226 compared to IBM/PC 196% Checking far jumps, far calls ticks: 251 compared to IBM/PC 206% Total time is: 1411 clock ticks, (78 seconds) compared to IBM/PC 365% 20 mghz IMMMMMMMMMMKMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMKMMMMMMMMM MM; : fDESIGNS : IBM COMPATIBLE PERFORMANCE ANALYZER : (C) 1986 : HMMMMMMMMMMJMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMJMMMMMMMMM MM< Copyright (C) 1986 Richard B. Johnson Checking memory block write ticks: 61 compared to IBM/PC 827% Checking register to memory ticks: 44 compared to IBM/PC 1115% Checking memory to register ticks: 52 compared to IBM/PC 942% Checking register to register ticks: 53 compared to IBM/PC 1039% Checking divide by register ticks: 24 compared to IBM/PC 2133% Checking divide by memory ticks: 33 compared to IBM/PC 1830% Checking multiply by register ticks: 19 compared to IBM/PC 2531% Checking multiply by memory ticks: 34 compared to IBM/PC 1638% Checking stack operations ticks: 51 compared to IBM/PC 872% Checking far jumps, far calls ticks: 67 compared to IBM/PC 774% Total time is: 438 clock ticks, (24 seconds) compared to IBM/PC 1176% --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1603 07-23-88 01:45 (Read 142 times) from: JAN HARWELL to: ALL subject: FDISK? cc: DUANE KONKEL We have installed a Western Digital 27X RLL controller with a Miniscribe 8438 hard drive. Using the included Ontrack software or debug and fdisk, we get a 32meg partition called E instead of C. We don't want to use DOS to redirect programs from E to C; we want to know why we get the wrong drive letter and what we can do about it, if anything. We can live with E but would prefer to know what is going on. Can anyone offer suggestions or help? Thanks in advance! --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1605 07-23-88 12:11 (Read 141 times) from: HAROLD WOODWARD to: JAN HARWELL (Rcvd) subject: R: FDISK? Reply to #1603 What is the capacity of the 8438 (32MEG)? If it is why not use DOS to format/install it? That would automatically give it a drive designation of "C:". Why are you trying to use Ontrack in the first place? There are only two reasons I would use it: 1) If you are trying to format a hard drive with a capacity of greater than 32 MEG and you are NOT using DOS 3.3. 2) On an "AT" none of the drive parameter tables in the bios came close to the specifications on the hard drive I was trying to install. I have DOS 3.3 and I recently installed a 65 MEG drive. Since I had "3.3" I only had to look into "2" fortunately I had one set of parameters that was close. DOS has a 32MEG partition size limit. On versions before 3.3 there was no way of getting around it using DOS. With 3.3 they made a way. If you format to greater than 32 MEG DOS starts separating it into "logical drives" which can be as large as 32 MEG. That's what I did. Now I have a drive C: and a drive D: they are both on the same hard drive. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1603 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1607 07-23-88 17:55 (Read 139 times) from: JOHN REDFORD to: JAN HARWELL (Rcvd) subject: R: FDISK? Reply to #1603 Check the switch's in your computer. I'll bet you have the switches set to tell the beastie that you have 4 floppy drives. Be honest and say that there are only 2 floppys and the hard disk will automatically become drive "C". >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1603 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1613 07-23-88 23:58 (Read 139 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: HAROLD WOODWARD (Rcvd) subject: R: R: FDISK? Reply to #1605 cc: JAN HARWELL Hello, Harold. I've been working with Jan on upgrading her PC. We used debug to call up the low level format procedure on the Western Digital 27x RLL controller, ran that with no problems, found that we seemed to have unformatted partitions C, D and E. We tried to format each as a bootable partition on the Miniscribe 8438 and got a response from E which chkdsk showed to be a 32 meg bootable partition. The Ontrack software came with her drive kit, and I had just used another copy which I got when I added a Miniscribe 3675 disk to my system. The WD card seems far superior to the Dreaded Adaptec I've been using, I think I'm about to get one, too. Anyway, Ontrack gave us the same result as the DOS procedure, and I'm now wondering if the low level format run by the controller BIOS might expect some command or parameter that we didn"t give it, although we gave appropriate response to all the prompts. So we have all the storage we expected, just not where we expected to find it! Like she said,"No biggie, we'd just like to know why?" Share water. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1603 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1629 07-25-88 12:14 (Read 134 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: JAN HARWELL (Rcvd) subject: R: FDISK? Reply to #1603 Your hard disk is called E instead of C most likely because you have other drivers in CONFIG.SYS that load first. Re-arrange CONFIG.SYS so ontrack's driver loads first. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1603 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1671 07-27-88 21:03 (Read 125 times) from: JAN HARWELL to: JOHN REDFORD (Rcvd) subject: R: R: FDISK? Reply to #1607 cc: JEFFREY HOWELL John, your suggestion worked! I was able to get some information on the correct settings from another ExecPC'er. My machine's ROM bios makes it think it is an XT. Anyway, Elmer is gone and Charlie has taken up residence. Very grateful to you for the assistance. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1603 reply #5 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1604 07-23-88 09:17 (Read 140 times) from: BILL KENNEDY to: ALL subject: ZAISAN Does anyone have any info on, or know where I can get info on Zaisan ES.1 or ES.3 computers ?? Nice little machine, I have several that have various problems and am tring to get one working out of the parts, I am expecially interested in the error codes that appear during the powerup self test, as they are not documented in the rather poor guide to operations that came with them They were made by Zaisan in 1984 in Houston thankx Bill Kennedy --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1608 07-23-88 17:58 (Read 145 times) from: JOHN REDFORD to: HAROLD WOODWARD (Rcvd) subject: R: INTEL 80386SX MICROPR Reply to #1606 From what Ive heard, the 80386sx is not at all compatable with the 80286 sockets. Your cheapest method of getting close is the ALL chargecard (presently available from Quarterdeck for $200) It will at least give you the 386 virtual addressing capibility. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1611 07-23-88 23:32 (Read 144 times) from: NICK KEES to: HAROLD WOODWARD (Rcvd) subject: R: INTEL 80386SX MICROPR Reply to #1606 PC World has a short review of Compaq's 386s, which uses the 80386SX chip. They say that it does indeed give 386 functionality, such as by running Desqview with QEMM-386 or Windows/386. It is cheaper than Compaq's other 386 systems, but then slower, too. But the chip is NOT socket compatible with the 80286. The latter must have REALLY been brain-damaged, like everyone says. Nick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1608 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1617 07-24-88 16:03 (Read 139 times) from: AL HANSEN to: HAROLD WOODWARD (Rcvd) subject: R: INTEL 80386SX MICROPR Reply to #1606 Harold, The 386SX is NOT slot comaptible with either the 80286 or the 80386. It does have an internal 32 bit bus, and is thus capable of running all 386 specific software, and of course 286 software (like OS/2). In development it was called the P9 chip (the 80286 was the P3), and will probably be the replacement for a lot of 286 clones. Compaq is the only company to a the 386SX in a production box, their 386S running at 16 mhz. I'm considering purchasing one for use at home, since I've got a 32 bit bus box at work (a model 80), and would like to run some OS/2 jobs at home when more OS/2 apps are available. AL -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1608 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1631 07-25-88 12:19 (Read 139 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: JOHN REDFORD (Rcvd) subject: R: R: INTEL 80386SX MICR Reply to #1608 Could you please describe the ALL Chargecard, its function and what it requires to use/install it? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1608 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1636 07-25-88 21:07 (Read 136 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: INTEL 80386SX MICR Reply to #1631 cc: JOHN REDFORD Tom, I'll second that! I got a package from Quarterdeck last week and spent the better part of two days trying to get some info from them. They kept trying to refer me to Canada. I figure that if they are trying to sell me the thing, they should know SOMETHING about it. It does sound TOO good! I am particularly interested if knowing if it will make my AboveBoard-286 into an EMS4.0 board (a REAL one). -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1608 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1656 07-26-88 22:28 (Read 132 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: INTEL 80386SX MICR Reply to #1636 cc: JOHN REDFORD cc: TOM PETERS cc: TOM BRUCE Everyone, The All Chargecard does do what it says. Another user here, Tom Bruce, has been using one for a while. It adds true 386 type memory management to a 286, providing what Intel should have in the first place. Any memory in the AT becomes usable in any way. You can create large DOS sessions, use Desqview with as many large sessions as you want, etc. Regular extended memory works fine with it, no need for EMS or EEMS boards. Tom Bruce - correct me if I'm wrong on anything here. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1608 reply #5 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1661 07-27-88 06:29 (Read 129 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: INTEL 80386SX MICR Reply to #1656 Glen, Thanks for the info. I was worried about the Above Board working properly with it. Do not want to make a $260. mistake by buying one. And I could find no information on the board (except here) that was helpful. Thanks again. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1608 reply #6 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1667 07-27-88 16:59 (Read 125 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: INTEL 80386SX MICR Reply to #1656 Forgive me, but I am utterly unfamiliar with the all chargecard. Is this a coprocessor or processor replacement? Or is it a memory board product? or is it jst a memory management product? Does one pull his 80286 and run a cable to the charge card, or just drop in it the nearest open slot, and run some software? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1608 reply #7 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1677 07-28-88 12:05 (Read 131 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: INTEL 80386SX MICR Reply to #1667 Tom, The All ChargeCard is a daughterboard that plugs into the 80286 socket and the 80286 plugs into a socket on the ChargeCard. The added chips on the ChargeCard add all sorts of useful memory management features to the 286 processor. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1608 reply #8 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1680 07-28-88 18:17 (Read 130 times) from: TOM BRUCE to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: INTEL 80386SX MICR Reply to #1656 cc: STEVE MCCRYSTAL cc: JOHN REDFORD cc: TOM PETERS That's a fair assessment. The only drawback I've experienced with the card was installing it in the first place: It helps to have very small hands with very long fingers and double-joined elbows. Regards, >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1608 reply #9 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1682 07-28-88 20:04 (Read 128 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: TOM BRUCE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: INTEL 80386SX MICR Reply to #1680 cc: GLEN THOMPSON Tom, thanks for confirming what Glen had to say. NOW I know! I have heard so many wild stories about hardware capability that I'm a little gun-shy. And I've bought and returned enough incompatible hardware that the type of info I got from you and Glen is truly invaluable. Thanks again... -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1608 reply #10 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1690 07-29-88 07:34 (Read 138 times) from: MARK TELLIER to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: INTEL 80386SX MICR Reply to #1677 Glen, Did you mean to say that the All Charge Card plugs into the 80286 socket and that the 8 0 2 8 6 plugs into the All Charge Card (or did you mean to say the 8 0 3 8 6 S X plugs into the board)????? - mwt - >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1608 reply #11 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1691 07-29-88 17:43 (Read 134 times) from: JOHN REDFORD to: MARK TELLIER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: INTEL 80386SX MICR Reply to #1690 The 80286 plugs into it Mark. It has Yxternal chips and logic that make the thing act like the 80386sx as far as virtual addressing goes. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1608 reply #12 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1692 07-29-88 18:18 (Read 134 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: MARK TELLIER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: INTEL 80386SX MICR Reply to #1690 Mark, The 80286 plugs into the ChargeCard. The added chips on the daughterboard provide 386-like memory management. As yet I haven't heard of anyone with a 80386sx daughterboard but I'm waiting. With AT motherboards selling for about $300, I wonder how long it will be before 386sx motherboards come on the market at a reasonable price, $500 range. signoff >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1608 reply #13 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1698 07-30-88 10:04 (Read 128 times) from: MARK TELLIER to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: INTEL 80386SX MICR Reply to #1692 Glen & John, I'm waiting for someone to announce a plug in 80386SX daughter board for my Compaq 286. I know I'll still only have the 16 bit bus, but I retain all of the Compaq capabilities and would gain the multitasking capabilities of the 80386. Time will tell if and when a product like this will be offered. I remember reading something (in PC Week, I think) that some expert didn't think that their would be a big market for 286'ers wanting to take their machines to a 386SX with a adapter board. Me thinks him wrong. - mwt - >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1608 reply #14 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1706 07-30-88 23:13 (Read 132 times) from: NICK KEES to: MARK TELLIER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: INTEL 80386SX MICR Reply to #1698 I agree with you. Something in PC Mag said that there would probably be such daughterboards available by the end of the year, and probably for $500 or less. That would be something. Nick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1608 reply #15 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1722 07-31-88 22:34 (Read 130 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: MARK TELLIER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: INTEL 80386SX MICR Reply to #1698 Mark, I agree with you on the marketability of a 386sx daughterboard. While you'll only see about a 10 to 20% speed invrease, you get all the advantages of the 386 architecture. That will then signal the end of OS/2 as we know it and pave the way for a real 386 OS. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1608 reply #16 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1724 08-01-88 11:07 (Read 128 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: INTEL 80386SX MICR Reply to #1677 So the charge card must have memory on it that isn't addressed thru the normal (bus) hardware, and is therefore faster...? Maybe you can use 100ns chips and get good advantage from them? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1608 reply #17 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1726 08-01-88 18:07 (Read 130 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: INTEL 80386SX MICR Reply to #1724 Tom, The Chargecard doesn't have any memory on it. It maps the addresses specified by the 286 into the actual addresses in the bus address space. It does this in a similar manner to the 386 on-board memory management hardware. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1608 reply #18 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1728 08-01-88 23:24 (Read 125 times) from: MARK TELLIER to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: INTEL 80386SX MICR Reply to #1722 Nick & Glen, I hope the 386sx plug-ins are available before year end and they better be LESS than $500.00. As I understand it from many minutes of reading, the card needs to be little more than a socket & plug, a 386SX chip and the printed circuit board. This is needed to convert the pin out of the 386SX chip to that of the 286 chip. Anyone received any more substantial technical information to confirm or rebutt this? - mwt - >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1608 reply #19 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1787 08-05-88 09:40 (Read 125 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: MARK TELLIER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: INTEL 80386SX MICR Reply to #1728 mark, The only other thing to add to a 386sx daughterboard is an additional clock. Might as well run it at 16 MHz and make sure that the IO bus is guaranteed to be the only bottleneck. A 80387sx socket might be nice too but only if the 386sx wouldn't run well with the 287. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1608 reply #20 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1795 08-05-88 22:20 (Read 125 times) from: MARK TELLIER to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: INTEL 80386SX MICR Reply to #1787 Glen, Your bring up a good point about the 386SX / 287 coprocessor compatibility. As far as running at 16MHz, I think it would be best to leave the designed speed of the unit under consideration to be left alone. There are way to many places for timing problems to develop for the uP to be sped up without analyzing the rest of the system. Actually, I've never found a need for my home machine to need a 287, and wouldn't consider a 386SX board without a co-processor option to be a draw back. - mwt - >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1608 reply #21 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1803 08-06-88 09:40 (Read 128 times) from: AL HANSEN to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: INTEL 80386SX MICR Reply to #1787 Glen, I picked up a new Compaq 386s on Thursday night. The base 40 meg version with 1 meg of RAM, the 40 meg conner 3.5 HD, and the Compaq VGA monitor. Have set it up and already run into a couple of problems. 1) Norton Advanced Utility Sort Directory dosn't work 2) Fastback Plus won't get past the DMA test Have not had a chance to test very much though, will give a full report later, and I may even write a review for upload here. A *REAL* review, until those "paid" reviews in the magazines! A half-dozen page ad does wonders for a product. Overall I'm very impressed with the construction and the design of the system. The VGA demo is very impressive, and it has the VGA on the mother board, along with all FD/HD controllers. I have not taken out the I/O chassis to see the complete motherboard layout yet, but it looks like Compaq farms it out, just like ole' blue shorts does. I thought Compaq had all those engineering types like myself for a purpose other than R&D. More later .... AL -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1608 reply #22 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1808 08-06-88 18:53 (Read 125 times) from: JOHN REDFORD to: AL HANSEN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: INTEL 80386SX MICR Reply to #1803 What date was your Norton Utilitys, They have now come out with at least 3 versions of version4. the original, a Feb 88 version which is supposed to handle the compaq large sector disks, and now a version that is supposed to handle the Dos 4.0 FATs. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1608 reply #23 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1809 08-06-88 19:56 (Read 124 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: AL HANSEN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: INTEL 80386SX MICR Reply to #1803 Al, You're going to have the Norton problems on any Compaq with Compaq's 3.31 DOS and a single partition over 32 MB. I think that there is a new version of the Norton Utilities available to handle DOS 3.31. Since Dos 4.0 is out? I would wait until Norton could handle it before upgrading. Can't comment on the Fastback Plus problem. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1608 reply #24 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1812 08-06-88 20:37 (Read 124 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: MARK TELLIER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: INTEL 80386SX MICR Reply to #1795 Mark, Not need a 80x87 at home??? You mean you don't do finite element analysis at home? How can you ever build anything without worrying about all those stress points? About the only area of work done at home that would really need a x87 is graphics. They can eat up some cycles and I had slow redisplay times. I was commenting on it for people that wanted to upgrade ATs in situations where a x87 was useful, like our engineering department. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1608 reply #25 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1820 08-07-88 02:13 (Read 123 times) from: MARK TELLIER to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: INTEL 80386SX MICR Reply to #1812 Glen, Your absolutely right! If I did finite element analysis at home or could afford $2500 (approx.) for AutoCAD, then I would gladly pay for the added cost of the math coprocessor. But. . . . - mwt - >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1608 reply #26 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1827 08-07-88 12:49 (Read 123 times) from: HYONG BANG to: AL HANSEN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: INTEL 80386SX MICR Reply to #1803 A review would be really, great, especially, some real performance oriented on, using some sort of virtual machine/supervisor set up like VM/386, Windows 386, etc and the Pharlap dos extender, as well as OS2 also. By the way, has anyone thought to write a OS2 performance benchmark? If all these OEM versions are really semi customs like the magazines say, there may be significant differences in performance, just like the different versions of unix have even on the same machine. Hyong P.S. I'm still looking for the right 386 machine...is this one (or something very much like it, the one?) >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1608 reply #27 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1828 08-07-88 12:51 (Read 124 times) from: HYONG BANG to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: INTEL 80386SX MICR Reply to #1812 Right on, and how about those of us who solve Navier-Stokes equations in 4-d for fun? In any case, what is the marginal cost of adding an empty 387s socket? Hyong >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1608 reply #28 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1835 08-07-88 20:58 (Read 124 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: HYONG BANG (Rcvd) subject: R: R: INTEL 80386SX MICR Reply to #1827 Hyong, I would say that the Compaq 386/25 and the Everex 386/25 are the "right" 386 machines if you've got the bucks. Oh, you have price constraints? Compaq's 386s is still a bit pricey compared to what could be done. I'm waiting for 386sx motherboards to become available like the current 286 and 386 boards are. Hopefully they will price out somewhere in between, say $600. That makes building a 386 system affordable. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1608 reply #29 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1841 08-08-88 11:14 (Read 125 times) from: AL HANSEN to: JOHN REDFORD (Rcvd) subject: R: R: INTEL 80386SX MICR Reply to #1808 John, Thanks for the reply, I'll have to go and eyeball the origianl diskette. I am having problems with Compaq MS-DOS 3.31, and as I suspected with PC DOS 4.0 this morning. Having a ball .... AL -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1608 reply #30 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1842 08-08-88 11:18 (Read 126 times) from: AL HANSEN to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: INTEL 80386SX MICR Reply to #1809 glen, Had to do two installs on PC DOS 4.0 this morning, Norton Utils DS will not work as I suspected. Will call Pete later for a fix. Hey, this PC DOS 4.0 is really NICE! Works OK with emulation in general, will get specific later. Have already talked with level 1 this am, have an insufficient memory error on the PC side when running DW/4 through the 36 as my wp program of choice. later ... AL -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1608 reply #31 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1843 08-08-88 11:24 (Read 127 times) from: AL HANSEN to: HYONG BANG (Rcvd) subject: R: R: INTEL 80386SX MICR Reply to #1827 Hyong, I don't have any of the programs you mentioned, BUT the 386s is SUPPOSED to run them all from what I've read so far. Have only had it for a few days, and it has already passed a major hurdle, I've run it on-site for some race scoring work that I do. Comapares to a Compaq 386 40 that I had on rental a year ago, and at a greatly reduced price! It will handle up to 13 meg of RAM in the proprietary 32 meg slot on the mother board. There are other third-party companies that supposedly have boards available to fit this slot, so Comapq must ahve released the specs to vendors, gues it's not so proprietary after all. I don't know if this is the machine you are looking for though, it does not have any 32 bit slots, just the standard AT type 16 bit ones. My Everex 2400 modem (8 bit) fits in OK. more later ... AL -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1608 reply #32 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1612 07-23-88 23:36 (Read 139 times) from: NICK KEES to: HAROLD WOODWARD (Rcvd) subject: R: 2 HD'S ON ADAPTEC 237 Reply to #1609 It's got nothing to do really with the termination resistors, although the last drive in the chain should have one. With a non-twisted cable, you must set jumpers on the drives themselves so that the drive you want to be C, which is connected to the END of the big cable, is set as drive select one, and the other one, connected to the MIDDLE of the big cable, is set as drive select two. Have you also connected separate 20 pin data cables for each drive to the controller? Nick --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1618 07-24-88 17:49 (Read 134 times) from: HAROLD WOODWARD to: JOHN REDFORD (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 2 HD'S ON ADAPTEC Reply to #1615 Thanks, I dug through my own literature and found the pin designations myself. I did it the way you suggested, it does work. However the way it works is the first 277R partition is C: the 238R is D: and the second partition on the 277R is E:. I can live with that. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1612 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1623 07-24-88 23:32 (Read 133 times) from: NICK KEES to: HAROLD WOODWARD (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 2 HD'S ON ADAPTEC Reply to #1614 Well, I can't describe from memory or any reference available to me right now how the jumpers are for the drive select on the drive, but a safe assumption would be that they are both in the drive select 1 position right now, making them at one particular end of the jumper block. Try moving the jumper over one position for the drive you want to connect as drive D, and that should put it in drive select 2 position. Does that help any? Nick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1612 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1672 07-27-88 22:03 (Read 124 times) from: HAROLD WOODWARD to: JOHN REDFORD (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 2 HD'S ON ADAPTEC Reply to #1632 Thanks for the input. I'll give it a try and see what happens. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1612 reply #3 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1620 07-24-88 21:49 (Read 135 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: ROB RAPP (Rcvd) subject: HARD DRIVE ON 1000TX I have a friend, Tom Frederichs(MFHS'68) who wants to put a hard disk in his Tandy 1000tx. Seems that THEY told him some Fabulous price to do so with Tandy components($1000+) so of course he is seeking other options. Do you know if other controllers will fit the slots and function? I know the WD 27X RLL half card doesn't have to align with the opening in the back of a case. Would that card work with maybe a Segate ST238 or Minisrcibe 8438 in the 1000TX? Would a hardcard be a better bet? --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1624 07-24-88 23:35 (Read 134 times) from: NICK KEES to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: HARD DRIVE ON 1000TX Reply to #1620 If you are interested in hard cards for a Tandy, both CompuAdd and Shamrock, both with ads in PC Mag, carry special stuff for the Tandy. Come to think of it, I think CompuAdd even had regular hard disks for the Tandy, and they run less than $100 more than the box standard stuff. Nick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1620 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1625 07-24-88 23:49 (Read 135 times) from: HAROLD WOODWARD to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: HARD DRIVE ON 1000TX Reply to #1620 Standard Hard Cards will not fit that computer. The slots are 2/3 or 3/4 inch length. You need a slightly different controller card from a standard XT type. If you take a look in Computer Shopper you will find more and more companys are offering "Kits" for these Computers. Offhand Tulin Company and Sunnyvale Memories. Sunnyvale Memories even sells the special controllers separately. A friend bought one of the Tulin ones and had a minor problem that wasn't covered in the instructions. You have to change one of the interupt switches on the motherboard to get it working properly. This should get you going. By the way to give you an idea of price. For that $1,000 that Tandy charges for a 20 Meg you can get a 63 Meg with Controller from Sunnyvale for $605 all you sacrifice is one of the floppys. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1620 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1639 07-25-88 22:14 (Read 131 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: NICK KEES (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DRIVE ON 1000 Reply to #1624 Thanks, Nick. I'll relay this to Tom. I know I've seen ads for some of this stuff, but trying to find products in Computer Shopper when you don't know the vendor can be endless, especially when I keep floating off in fantasies about MY ULTIMATE SYSTEM. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1620 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1642 07-26-88 01:41 (Read 133 times) from: ROB RAPP to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: HARD DRIVE ON 1000TX Reply to #1620 Dave - Either will do. I have a hard card, but it is a 27RLL WD with the mentioned Miniscribe 8438, so who cares where and how it is connected? The trick with the 1000 (and 2000, for that matter) is that the interrupt for the HD is 2, not 5, and must be changed in two places on the controller. If you have the docs for the controller it is in there. The one place is on the bottom of the board, some cards have jumpers, some do not. W9??? My memory fails me. In any case, if there is a jumper, it has to be moved to the other possible combination, and if not, the trace has to be cut, and a jumper put across the other two pins. The other place is at the bracket side of the card, where there are a number of jumpers. There is another jumper that needs to be put on, I think at #2, but look at the docs. Also, be sure that the firmware translation is disabled, as it otherwise tries to fool the computer into thinking it is an MFM drive. Alternately, find Shamrock Computers in a magazine and order one of theirs. They charge about $20 more for the mods, and their prices are reasonable, about $390 for a 32 meg hardcard. Perhaps less by now. I loaned one set of my docs to a friend, so I would have to look to give you the exact procedure, but I am sure I can do so if you like (i.e. you do not have the docs!) Rob >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1620 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1653 07-26-88 21:58 (Read 129 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: ROB RAPP (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DRIVE ON 1000 Reply to #1642 Thanks,Rob. I think Tom would be leery of surgery on his controller, as I would be of performing it. Shamrock would be a better alternative or some thing like it. I'm still not sure what he has in mind, so for now I'll just show him the ads. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1620 reply #5 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1658 07-26-88 23:14 (Read 129 times) from: ROB RAPP to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DRIVE ON 1000 Reply to #1653 It is really too bad; I had a WX2 controller board with the required surgery, but sold it. To someone who had to reverse the changes! It really is not that big a deal; the one change is in a non-critical area, and the other changes are jumper moving. If he changes his mind (as long as he has a controller, he might as well use it), let me know. Of course, most of the time they almost through the controller in on the deal, anyway. Rob P.S. Call me at Anonymous sometime!!! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1620 reply #6 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1684 07-28-88 20:42 (Read 130 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: ROB RAPP (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DRIVE ON 1000 Reply to #1658 I've been trying to get on your board since you posted the number, using Telix212 at 1200 baud and the same settings as Exec-PC on an Avatex 1200i, but I never get a connect. I suspect the modem dipswitch settings may need resetting, but know nothing about this. I've had erratic success with other boards, some of which I've called on the phone, heard the carrier after connect, but been unable to get online when I use the computer. I'm going out to MF Saturday afternoon to see if my hard drives behave just as strangely on my Dad's XT clone as they do on mine, and planned to bring the modem to show him how it works. Could I drop in if I call first? Maybe you could hit it with a different precision BFH than the one I use. BTW, my friend Tom has no HD controller as yet, he just was asking a bout sources other than overpriced Tandy. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1620 reply #7 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1686 07-28-88 21:51 (Read 130 times) from: ROB RAPP to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DRIVE ON 1000 Reply to #1684 Dave - Sure, be my guest! I do have a theory on the modem thing. You are calling at 1200 baud; I init at 2400. Therefore, we need to agree (or our modems do) on the baud rate. The way that RyBBS figures this out is from word connect messages, rather than numeric. You may have to change that setting on your modem (could be a dip switch, otherwise, v1 is verbal, v0 is numeric). Check that out. If, for example, you do not have trouble witn Wildcat! boards, it is because they support numeric. Worth a try. See you Saturday, perhaps! Bob >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1620 reply #8 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1736 08-02-88 16:20 (Read 120 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DRIVE ON 1000 Reply to #1684 This may sound stupid, but most modems will abort the connection if you hit any key at all after the dial command and before it either connects or times out. You wouldn't be typing anything before a CONNECT message or a NO CARRIER mesasge, would you? Naw... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1620 reply #9 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1744 08-02-88 19:05 (Read 122 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DRIVE ON 1000 Reply to #1736 Nothing so simple, I'm afraid. I just sit here watching Telix count down the seconds until I get no connect. I appreciate the input, though, I've still not enough experience to always recognize the obvious! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1620 reply #10 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1758 08-03-88 15:12 (Read 119 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DRIVE ON 1000 Reply to #1744 PROCOMM 2.42 IS STILL FREE and works better than a lot of commercial packages. You might try that. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1620 reply #11 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1767 08-03-88 20:51 (Read 118 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DRIVE ON 1000 Reply to #1758 I have PCPLUSTD, Qmodem, PC-TalkIII and Telix212 and 30 and like Telix best so far, I just need to learn more about it. I think my problems revolve around the modem, rather than the software. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1620 reply #12 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1844 08-08-88 18:36 (Read 125 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DRIVE ON 1000 Reply to #1767 I still like Procomm 2.42 for comm software. Jerry Pournell, science fiction author and columnist in Byte, does too. He used it a lot before the commercial version came out. Still, to each his own. Find something you like and use it... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1620 reply #13 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1847 08-08-88 21:24 (Read 125 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DRIVE ON 1000 Reply to #1844 When I was having problems with my cursed Adaptec HD controller, the only shareware comm program I could configure without crashing was Telix212. The user interface is similar to Procomm and Qmodem, scripts are easy to write and it doesn't take much room on the Seagate...Telix30 may be another story but I don't intend to install it until my WD 27X HD controller arrives(Please, SOON, Please!!). Have you read "The Mote in God's Eye" by Niven and Pournelle? Good HARD SF of the old school. Wish I still had time to read fiction. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1620 reply #14 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1855 08-09-88 16:43 (Read 131 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DRIVE ON 1000 Reply to #1847 I LIKED "The Mote..." and agree: good old SF. I liked the Ringworld books as well. Did you try "The Integral Trees" and the sequel? I though the original was good, but "The Smoke Ring" wasn't. It just kinda starts up and goes for a while, then stops. I also liked the Heechee books a lot, and got to meet the author at a convention. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1620 reply #15 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1858 08-09-88 21:04 (Read 128 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DRIVE ON 1000 Reply to #1855 I've enjoyed the Ringworld series, Inexplicably didn't read "...Trees" when it was in Analog, was unmoved by "Smoke Ring" and just figured I should have read the first to like the second. I used to knock off 3 or 4 novels a week, now my time is so limited that I actually hadn't finished an Analog when the next one showed up. Much of my current leisure is doing what I'm doing right now, I think I've become a modem junkie and I need regular fixes of DOS utilities to keep me amused...at least I still find time for XCon. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1620 reply #16 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1870 08-10-88 15:10 (Read 126 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DRIVE ON 1000 Reply to #1858 I missed XCON this year, having been in Bavaria during the first part of June. Ever been to Triangulum? I was last year but I'm not going back. It gets worse every year. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1620 reply #17 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1874 08-10-88 19:06 (Read 121 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DRIVE ON 1000 Reply to #1870 I hit one Triangulum and it was enough. I heard yesterday there would be no more. Hit Bavaria,too, some time ago. Got drunk in Munchen as all good tourists do. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1620 reply #18 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1622 07-24-88 23:30 (Read 132 times) from: JAN HARWELL to: JOHN REDFORD (Rcvd) subject: FDISK cc: DAVID BIRCH John, your suggestion that the problem may be in the dip switch settings makes sense to me. My experience with the insides of my pc is very limited. I am checking some of my reference materials but if you can give me some idea of what the settings should be that would help alot. Thanks for the reply and suggestion. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1633 07-25-88 18:20 (Read 127 times) from: JOHN REDFORD to: JAN HARWELL (Rcvd) subject: R: FDISK Reply to #1622 Dont have any Info on the ST or PC switch settings here at home, will try to look em up tomorrow and let you know. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1622 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1635 07-25-88 20:39 (Read 128 times) from: RICHARD CARLSON to: ALL subject: OSBORNE TERMINAL PROGRAM cc: SYSOP i HAVE A FREIND THAT HAS AN OSBORNE COMPUTER. IT IS CPM BASED. SHE IS WRITING A BOOK ON IT AND WANTS TO TRANSFER THE TEST TO HER AGENT IN NEW YORK. AS CAN BE EXPECTED SHE IS NOT ROLLING IN BUCKS. IS ANYONE AWARE OF A PROGRAM THAT IS AVAILABLE FOR HER TO USE?? PLEASE WRITE AND TELL ME. SIGNED, EXPECTED TO KNOW EVERYTHING --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1710 07-31-88 05:36 (Read 128 times) from: JIM DUNNIGAN to: RICHARD CARLSON (Rcvd) subject: R: OSBORNE TERMINAL PROG Reply to #1635 There's a nationwide Orborne Users Group called FOG which could probably help you out. Download one of the BBS listings files and you may find a listing for one of their BBS's (I believe at least one is in SF). There is also one or more programs in the file collections that allows IBM PC's to read and write CP/M disks. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1635 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1725 08-01-88 17:44 (Read 124 times) from: RICHARD CARLSON to: JIM DUNNIGAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: OSBORNE TERMINAL P Reply to #1710 thanks for the information. by any chance do yo know of the names that writer and read to the ibm from cp/m disks? your friend in need ricahrd. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1635 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1730 08-02-88 02:56 (Read 121 times) from: JIM DUNNIGAN to: RICHARD CARLSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: OSBORNE TERMINAL P Reply to #1725 Somehow the name "NEWMMS" pops into my head, but you had best do a search in the file libraries under CP/M and CPM. You might also check out a recent copy of Computer Shopper magazine, they still carry lots of CP/M info. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1635 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1746 08-02-88 20:20 (Read 117 times) from: RICHARD CARLSON to: JIM DUNNIGAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: OSBORNE TERMINAL P Reply to #1730 thank you for the name. i hope to be of service to you some day. your friend richard >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1635 reply #4 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1643 07-26-88 07:00 (Read 130 times) from: MARK SIMMONS to: ALL subject: RLL ST-4096 Hello, I have been watching a interesting debate about whether or not a ST-4096 can be run reliable on a RLL controller. There are many people who say that this is possible, and many who don't feel RLL even on a RLL certified drive is reliable. I would therefor like to solicit any comments or thoughts any one may have in this matter. Thank You, -Mark Simmons- --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1650 07-26-88 19:49 (Read 131 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: MARK SIMMONS (Rcvd) subject: R: RLL ST-4096 Reply to #1643 Mark, Have never worked with an ST-4096, but from personal experience I can tell you that RLL with RLL drives is reliable. Have been running three of them for a year+ with no problems. That is after an early bout with bogus controllers. RLL with non-RLL drives is NOT relaible. Many have tried it and SOME have been lucky. I have not! My advice is "if the drive is not rated for RLL there IS a reason". But it is your data, you must decide whether you want to tempt fate or argue with the drive manufacturers. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1643 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1663 07-27-88 10:47 (Read 124 times) from: MARK SIMMONS to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: RLL ST-4096 Reply to #1650 Steve, Do you feel the proublem is simply a matter of lost data? Or is there possible problem with the mechanical side of the drive? Thanks, -Mark Simmons- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1643 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1894 08-13-88 08:04 (Read 121 times) from: MARK SIMMONS to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: RLL ST-4096 Reply to #1668 Steve, And interesting thing came up about this whole thing. I talked to many hard drive repair shops and the basic thought was that the ST-4096 is not quit as reliable as there newer units. Because of this, it was recomended not to tempt fate by trying to RLL them. While thay had in fact RLL'ed them, thay felt that the risk of mechanical failure was the real reason. The RLL prosses won't cause the breakdown, it's just that the drives are just plain unreliable. (I told them Thanks A lot for that tidbit of news!) SO I of course am not going to tempt a crash. Thanks for you input. -Mark Simmons- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1643 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1895 08-13-88 09:05 (Read 118 times) from: KEITH BECKMANN to: MARK SIMMONS (Rcvd) subject: R: R: RLL ST-4096 Reply to #1894 cc: STEVE MCCRYSTAL I beg to differ with you regarding the reliabilty of the ST-40XX series drives. They will not reliably run RLL because they are not plated media, not because the drives are un-reliable. The company that I work for uses many differnt types of drives including the ST-40XX series, and I have found them to be some of the best drives that we have. I myself use a ST-4038, and an ST-4051 that have been on my system for a few years with no problems. I feel that these drives are far superior to the ST-2XX series of drive which are proven to be more unreliable. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1643 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1897 08-13-88 23:18 (Read 118 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: KEITH BECKMANN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: RLL ST-4096 Reply to #1895 Keith, That was my original point. I have never heard of the 4096 being unreliable mechanically. But I would not try to run one RLL because of the media. The 225's that I saw burned out running RLL would not format, period. Not RLL or MFM! It has been suggested that the high density recording from RLL has actually burned the coating from the platters. I don't know if I believe this or not, but I do know that the drives were SHOT! I cannot recommend that anyone try it with ANY non-RLL rated drive, although many people have done it. Just not on my advice! -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1643 reply #5 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1898 08-13-88 23:30 (Read 118 times) from: KEITH BECKMANN to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: RLL ST-4096 Reply to #1897 Please read message # 1796 RE: ST-225's and RLL >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1643 reply #6 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1900 08-14-88 09:51 (Read 119 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: KEITH BECKMANN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: RLL ST-4096 Reply to #1898 Keith, I did, and I couldn't agree more! At least with your final comment. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1643 reply #7 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1944 08-18-88 09:30 (Read 122 times) from: MARK SIMMONS to: KEITH BECKMANN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: RLL ST-4096 Reply to #1895 Keith, I hope your right, I have no great love of recovering from crashes! I will take your information to heart and hope that the first crash I had after a mere 60 days was a fluke. Thanks for the support. Thanks Mark Simmons >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1643 reply #8 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1644 07-26-88 10:46 (Read 132 times) from: DWIGHT SISK to: ALL subject: PS/2 MONITOR WANTED I NEED A COLOR OR MONO PS/2 MONITOR LEAVE MESSAGE OR CALL 816-923-9900 ASK FOR DWIGHT --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1645 07-26-88 10:47 (Read 129 times) from: DWIGHT SISK to: ALL subject: 16BIT LAN CARDS F/SALE I HAVE SOME NEW RACORE 16BIT LANPAC II CARDS FOR SALE $150 EA. THEY RETAIL FOR $425 LEAVE MESSAGE OR CALL DWIGHT 816-923-9900 --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1646 07-26-88 11:00 (Read 140 times) from: DUANE KONKEL to: ALL subject: ST-238 CERT & RLL DRIVES cc: GLEN THOMPSON cc: TOM PETERS cc: BENTLY TURNER * SEAGATE HARD DRIVE CONFUSION * * * There has been alot of confusion as to the designation of the the Seagate ST-238 and the ST-238R. First off lets dispell some of the mis-information on that. Seagate created the ST-238, the first series was plated media. Plated media was not extremely reliable, and per Seagates strict quality control standards they didn't deal in that area too long. Using a better media they continued building ST-238's. * ALL, I REPEAT ** ALL ** ST-238'S ARE RLL CERTIFIED !!!!!!! THIS IS STRAIGHT FROM SEAGATE TECHNOLOGIES !!!!!!!! Now let me explain their numbering sequence. Example ST-238R ST - Seagate Technologies 2 - 5 & 1/4 " half height 38 - 38 meg (unformatted capacity) R - RLL Certified I know that means an ST-238 isn't RLL Certified -- WRONG !! Seagate in creating a numbering standard added the R in their sequence to be consistent. The ST-238 was created before Seagate came up with the consistent numbering sequence. Lets dispell with one other theory. RLL certified The data Rate an RLL drive is 50 faster than in an MFM drive. The Envelope in a MFM drive is similiar to this * r * | - 200 nanoseconds-| The Envelope in an RLL drive is similiar to this * r * |- 150 ns -| The drive must be able to read the data within that window space leaving the tolerance much tighter in the RLL Series. What does all this mean to you??? In Seagates own words Q: Can I use my MFM drive with an RLL controller to gain extra capacity ? A: No, there are design differences between Seagate's RLL and MFM drives. Putting an MFM drive on a RLL card is a recipe for disaster and may void your warranty. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You may (Although I wouldn't justify it) use your RLL certified with an MFM controller card. You will just get 33% less storage. For example you could use your RLL ST-238 (remember an ST-238 is an RLL certified drive) with a standard MFM controller and get the same results as having hooked up an ST-225. WITHOUT ANY PROBLEMS WHATSOEVER !!!!!! YOU CAN USE AN RLL DRIVE IN AN MFM ENVIRONMENT, BUT SHOULD NOT USE AN MFM DRIVE IN AN RLL ENVIRONMENT. * Should you have any questions or disputes with what I have presented here, I would be glad to field any questions or discrepancies you may feel there are. Either leave an email here or feel free to call Duane Konkel DAK TEKnologies 549-1220 * Happy Hard Drives !!!!!!!!!! DAK TEK is an authorized Seagate Technologies dealer. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1647 07-26-88 16:17 (Read 125 times) from: PHIL PUCCI to: ALL subject: C64 PRINTER I/O Does anyone know what the printer I/O capabilities are for a COMMODORE 64 computer? Will it support the CENTRONICS interface using the same cable as an IBM clone? Any information would be helpful as the question comes from a friend of a friend of a friend ... PdP --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1651 07-26-88 20:02 (Read 123 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: PHIL PUCCI (Rcvd) subject: R: C64 PRINTER I/O Reply to #1647 Phil, Definately not! You can use an IBM Centronics cable as an extension cord but that is all. The normal serial output is via a 5 pin DIN plug on the rear of the machine. Sorry, that should be 6 pin DIN. The output is then fed into an "interface" that has the 6 pin input and a Centronics output cable. This must be purchased seperately. Another interface is (or was) available that connected the "user port" to a Centronics connector directly but it required a software driver to operate properly and never went over very well. Sold mostly to folks who HAD an IBM /Centronics printer that they wanted to connect to the C64. But the interrupt driven printer driver conflicted with many software packages and thus caused more problems than it solved. It was a real pain in the butt! I made one and know only too well! -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1647 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1660 07-27-88 01:21 (Read 123 times) from: JAMES IRVING to: PHIL PUCCI (Rcvd) subject: R: C64 PRINTER I/O Reply to #1647 The C-64 has a serial output port that is used to communicate with a printer; unless you use an adaptor card you will not be able to use a parallel ported printer. The Centronics compatible port on printers is a parallel type interface. I hope that helps, Phil, if it doesn't give me a shout back and we can get more specific. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1647 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1657 07-26-88 22:37 (Read 123 times) from: JAN HARWELL to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: FDISK REPLY TO #1629 Tom, thank you for replying to my call for help with a misnamed hard drive. Will be experimenting with some solutions tomorrow evening and will certainly give your suggestion a try. Appreciate your help! --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1665 07-27-88 16:23 (Read 119 times) from: MARK DELAGUARO to: ALL subject: HARD DRIVE HARD DRIVE FOR SALE - REFURBISHED 4038 (30 MEG) ALL REASONABLE OFFERS WILL BE LOOKED AT. GUARANTEED TO WORK! CALL DELAS PLACE BBS AT (614) 794 1026 AND LEAVE A MESSAGE TO THE SYSOP IF INTERESTED. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1670 07-27-88 19:59 (Read 121 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: CHARGE CARD cc: TOM BRUCE Glen, One more question from me, if I may. In your earlier message carboned to me, you mentioned that there was no NEED to purchase EMS/EEMS boards for use with the Chargecard. What I need to know is if I already have one (or more) will they still work with the Chargecard? Your help will be most appreciated. -[Steve]- --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1678 07-28-88 12:09 (Read 116 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: CHARGE CARD Reply to #1670 Steve, Since the ChargeCard provides a better form of memory management than the EMS/EEMS boards, it's better to configure your Intel AboveBoard as EXtended memory and let the ChargeCard handle all the mapping. You get more benefits that way. The ChargeCard then allocates the memory as needed. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1670 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1681 07-28-88 18:27 (Read 124 times) from: TOM BRUCE to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: CHARGE CARD Reply to #1670 cc: GLEN THOMPSON Steve, Although I only have extended memory in use with the ChargeCard, I understand that it integrates all of your memory (extended, expanded, and enhanced expanded) seamlessly, more or less. Regards, >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1670 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1683 07-28-88 20:05 (Read 121 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: TOM BRUCE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: CHARGE CARD Reply to #1681 Tom, That's what I wanted to hear! Thanks again... -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1670 reply #3 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1674 07-27-88 22:42 (Read 129 times) from: RICK PODRAZA to: ALL subject: 3.5 DISC DRIVE I suppose this is naive, but what is the advantage of a 3.5 disc drive over a 1.2 meg drive. I seem to see lots of messages from folks having problems getting them to work, they're kind of expensive, and the discs appear to be priced a bit higher than the .49/disc I get from MEI Micro for the high density. On the other hand, I'm always looking for an excuse to buy new equipment. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1675 07-28-88 00:59 (Read 127 times) from: HAROLD WOODWARD to: RICK PODRAZA (Rcvd) subject: R: 3.5 DISC DRIVE Reply to #1674 I assume you are talking about the difference between the 1.2 MEG 5 1/4 inch disks and the 1.4 MEG 3.5 inch disks. There are two main advantages to all 3.5 inch disks. 1) Size--you can fit a number of them in your shirt pocket. 2) They are protected a whole lot better-hard plastic case, magnetic media never exposed. On the 5 1/4 inch disks you have an open slot where the head reads the disk--dust and dirt can easily get in that way. On the 3.5 inch disks there is a shutter that is only open when the disk is in the drive. You are right in there being a significant price difference. Discounted mail order for the 1.2's $.50 each for the 1.4's $3.50-$4.50. I am not positive about this next part and if I'm wrong I apoligize and someone please correct me. I have heard/seen compatability problems (read, write, format) on on 1.2 MEG disks in relation to being read by a drive from another manufacturer (IE my toshiba 1.2 will not read disks formated on my mitsubichi 1.2). I don't believe this problem exists with the 1.4's. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1674 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1676 07-28-88 06:42 (Read 129 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: RICK PODRAZA (Rcvd) subject: R: 3.5 DISC DRIVE Reply to #1674 Rick, I like them because the put a lot of data in a very small, durable package. It is possible to carry the contents of a ten meg hard drive in your coat pocket. Makes it nice to transport large quantities af information when traveling. Also, using them for backups cuts down on the disk count as well as the space needed to store them. Smart shopping keeps the disk cost problem to a minimum. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1674 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1688 07-29-88 01:37 (Read 132 times) from: RICK PODRAZA to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5 DISC DRIVE Reply to #1676 Steve, Thanks for your input. After I posted the message, another thought occurred to me. I recently read an article (from this board I believe) that all floppies and magnetic tape degrade with age because of the proximity of one magnetic coating to the other. Do you have any info if this might be less of a problem with the 3.5's. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they are much thicker than a floppie. I have a need for relatively long term data storage (3 to 4 yrs) and if the 3.5's are more stable, it would very much influence my decision. ----->Rick<----- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1674 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1689 07-29-88 07:32 (Read 136 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: RICK PODRAZA (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5 DISC DRIVE Reply to #1688 Rick, That is one thing that I had never considered! But, you are right, I think, in your assessment. It should provide some measure of security in that respect. But I have tapes recorded in the middle sixties on VERY thin mag tape that have suffered no noticeable printthrough in 20+ years. So it really may not be all that important. I also have disks (5.25 inch) that are seven or eight years old and they still work fine. But for important data one can't be too careful! -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1674 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1693 07-29-88 21:00 (Read 136 times) from: KEITH BECKMANN to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5 DISC DRIVE Reply to #1689 Mag tape is not as suseptible to the problem as floppies are. The very fact that the particles on the surface of the floppy are magnetic can, in time, alter the magnetice particles on the other side of the floppy. Because mag tape is recorded on only one side, this is not a problem. The only problems that can arise is that the bits are close enough together on the same side to affect each other. The only way to circumvent the entire problem is to go back to the old fashioned paper tape punch/reader. Sometimes you can't beat old technology for reliability (Rember core memory??). >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1674 reply #5 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1694 07-29-88 21:12 (Read 136 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: KEITH BECKMANN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5 DISC DRIVE Reply to #1693 Keith, Thanks for clearing that up. It was just a theory on my part, but I have heard that one before, pertaining to the proximity of one disk to another. Judy Getts once wondered aloud if maybe viruses could be transmitted that way (tongue in cheek, actually!). But I can also see your point. Tahnks again. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1674 reply #6 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1695 07-29-88 21:19 (Read 135 times) from: KEITH BECKMANN to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5 DISC DRIVE Reply to #1694 Some time ago, someone asked if data could be stored on 5.25 inch floppies for an extremely long period of time (IE > 20Yrs). Someone came up with an interesting theory. Why not ever few years bring the disks out of storage and copy them to another recently formated disk, thereby rewriting each bit onto the floppy before it degrades. My only question is why would someone want to keep data for that long of an amount of time. I have problems remembering the usefulness of a disk that is less than 2 months old. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1674 reply #7 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1697 07-29-88 23:47 (Read 134 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: KEITH BECKMANN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5 DISC DRIVE Reply to #1695 Keith, I know what you mean! I have the same trouble. The only reason I could think of would be tax records (7 years, I think) and data pertaining to tax 'basis' for capital gains tax on a real estate purchase. That you need for as long as you own the property or until you have to sell it to pay the ever increasing property taxes on it! That could be RSN, at that rate they are going. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1674 reply #8 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1700 07-30-88 16:06 (Read 136 times) from: JAMES IRVING to: KEITH BECKMANN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5 DISC DRIVE Reply to #1693 I am not familiar with the magnetic tape used in computers, but I've had problems with "print through" on high quality audio tapes. It gets worse with age; the layers are very close to each when on the reel. If your into audio and listen closely to one of these tapes, you will hear the upcoming notes very faintly in the background a fraction of a second before its "played". -JTI- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1674 reply #9 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1702 07-30-88 17:03 (Read 138 times) from: KEITH BECKMANN to: JAMES IRVING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5 DISC DRIVE Reply to #1700 Yes, I know what you are talking about. I have heard that on audio tapes before. Forunately there is a threshold level for digital recording that elminates most of those problems. That is unless the strength of the signal is above a certain point it will be ignored as noise. That is one of the advantages of digital recording. I wonder what problems will arise from the used of DAT recorings in the future. Unlike the CD, I do not think the DAT tape will last forever. It will have the same problems that occur with long term storage of data. Since we typically hold on the music longer than we hold onto data, this could be a much worse problem. I still think that there will be a superior type of recording in the future, beyond our current CD's and DAT. Something that is perhaps all electronic, with no moving parts, or magnetic media to wear out. Perhaps in 20 years the way that memory chips are expanding in size, we will be purchasing digital music on chips, istead of on some other type of media. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1674 reply #10 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1703 07-30-88 21:25 (Read 139 times) from: JAMES IRVING to: KEITH BECKMANN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5 DISC DRIVE Reply to #1702 Thanks for the comeback. I agree with you that everything is going digital and in that direction of chip storage. I wonder if the music associations that are trying to get DAT recorders "outlawed",or with decoder chips in them, will try to do the same with computers. I've heard some very good "recordings" lately, and the future should bring large amounts of memory at very cheap prices. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1674 reply #11 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1712 07-31-88 08:42 (Read 137 times) from: KEITH BECKMANN to: JAMES IRVING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5 DISC DRIVE Reply to #1703 I don't know what there problem is with DAT. It is really no different than a CD in quality, and if someone wanted a master they could purchase either DAT or a CD. I have made cassette recording from my CD's for some time for the car. I like the fact that when it wears out, or gets caught in the mechanism, that I can simply make another copy. I don't think that DAT would change my philosophy regarding my recording habits, but I may simply have better quality in the car. Because of all the delays, I'm not sure DAT is going to make as big of a hit as first suggested, but then again I could be wrong. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1674 reply #12 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1714 07-31-88 12:31 (Read 136 times) from: JAMES IRVING to: KEITH BECKMANN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5 DISC DRIVE Reply to #1712 No, I don't think your wrong. DAT may be dead and obsolete before it has a chance; it may not be suitable for use in cars anyway. My cassette recordings from CD's are done with Dolby C; by the time the volume is loud enough to hear soft passages, the loud parts rattle doors and windows. For auto use,perhaps a little compression would be in order to avoid problems with dynamic range. My auto stereo does not have DBX encoding, but the home system does. I've given up doing A/B tests on CD vs.a copy with Dbx encoding on metal tape; I can't tell any difference. I probably don't have the famous "golden ears", but they're not bad. DAT may be a great "tour de force" in a technology, but perhaps it really has no practical or economical advantage over what is now available. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1674 reply #13 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1715 07-31-88 17:59 (Read 131 times) from: KEITH BECKMANN to: JAMES IRVING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5 DISC DRIVE Reply to #1714 I too have been using dolby c in the car, and find it good enough for me. Sometimes I wish that I could use my CD's in the car, but I don't likjke the players for the car yet. Most of them are either to expense, or of poor quality. I have looked at the Sony multi unit, but I can see it now. Evertime I want a CD in the house, it will be sitting in the back of my car. Especially if its raining. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1674 reply #14 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1731 08-02-88 03:45 (Read 125 times) from: RICK PODRAZA to: KEITH BECKMANN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5 DISC DRIVE Reply to #1695 Kieth, Tax record need to be retained for three years (four if you're a resident of Wisconsin) That's the statute of limitations, fraud exempted. Capital gains property info must be retained until sold (for basis) and then three (or four) years after. I deal with financial info for many companies, and some of my floppies are seeing their 5th birthday. 20 years? That I can't imagine. ----->Rick<----- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1674 reply #15 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1735 08-02-88 12:59 (Read 123 times) from: KEITH BECKMANN to: RICK PODRAZA (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5 DISC DRIVE Reply to #1731 RCIK, That's what I was questioning. Someone was wondering what effects there would be to the data by keeping them around for extended periods od=f time. For myself I keep daily stock data for all of the stocks that I own. The oldest data is around 4 years old, but I'm not real worried about it since it can be gotten from my Dow Jones service so easily. As for tax records, and property records, I still prefer paper documents. I do have some information regarding properties on disk, but it is countinously updated and therfore re-written. By the way have you ever heard of the old saying I before E, except after C and in the name KEITH. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1674 reply #16 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1743 08-02-88 18:48 (Read 124 times) from: RICK PODRAZA to: KEITH BECKMANN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5 DISC DRIVE Reply to #1735 Keith, Sorry about the spelling, but it's really my typing thats the culprit. ----->Rick<----- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1674 reply #17 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1753 08-03-88 03:40 (Read 121 times) from: JIM DUNNIGAN to: RICK PODRAZA (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5 DISC DRIVE Reply to #1731 I'm still using 5.25 inch floppies from my TRS-80 Mod I days (some go back to 1978). I use them for data transfer amd have noted no exceptional problems. When I reformatted a bunch recently (they had been sitting in an odd corner with TRSDOS stuff on them), I lost a few k on some during the formatting. Remember, though, that these are rated single sided, single density (for 89k TRS-80 drives). Ah, the good old days really sucked, didn't they? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1674 reply #18 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1773 08-03-88 23:06 (Read 122 times) from: KEITH BECKMANN to: RICK PODRAZA (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5 DISC DRIVE Reply to #1743 Rick, Thats alright, I get used to it. It's a bother sometimes to correct problems in the line on EXEC. You have to retype the entire line. Oh well. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1674 reply #19 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1791 08-05-88 21:21 (Read 124 times) from: RICK PODRAZA to: JIM DUNNIGAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5 DISC DRIVE Reply to #1753 Jim, Thanks for responding, and thanks for the info. The 5.25's still have the advantage of making a smaller "stack" when piled up. I have an extensive collection of 1.2meg floppies, and your experience with low data loss is reassuring. ----->Rick<----- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1674 reply #20 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1792 08-05-88 21:22 (Read 123 times) from: RICK PODRAZA to: KEITH BECKMANN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5 DISC DRIVE Reply to #1773 Keith, To forgive is divine> ----->Rick<----- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1674 reply #21 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1685 07-28-88 21:11 (Read 125 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: ALL subject: PLUS HARDCARD I ran into a strange problem with a pair of Plus Hardcards today. We had a Xerox PC with a Hardcard 20 that has been working fine. We received a new Hardcard 40 that was to replace the 20 with the 20 going in an old Compaq luggable. Put the new 40 in the Xerox and got a 1701 disk controller error. Took it out and put it in the Compaq and it worked fine. Put it back in the Xerox and we got the same 1701 error. Tried all the combinations of one or two hardcards with the switches set various ways. Still no success. Finally went back to using the 40 in the Compaq and the 20 in the Xerox. Anybody got any idea why the 40 wouldn't work in the Xerox? glen --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1737 08-02-88 16:25 (Read 116 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: PLUS HARDCARD Reply to #1685 You might get the same problem if you format a drive on a Zenith and another on a clone, and swap them. I would run the Xerox partition program and see what it says. Some OEM's require that the bootable partition be #1 and others would call that partition #4. If you don't mind wiping out the 40mb partition, that would probably fix it. If not, do a low-level format and then a partition setup. The important thing is to do it on the mchine it will be used on. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1685 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1788 08-05-88 09:44 (Read 116 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PLUS HARDCARD Reply to #1737 Tom, The Xerox partition program says that there isn't a fixed disk in the system. With the 1701 error, the system is ignoring the existence of the controller and drive. We've got the 40 MB unit in the Compaq semi-portable and the Xerox user will just have to suffer with limited disk space for a while longer. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1685 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1687 07-28-88 21:54 (Read 126 times) from: KEITH BECKMANN to: ALL subject: HARDWARE FOR SALE *********************************************************************** * * * * * HARDWARE FOR SALE * * * * * *********************************************************************** 1 - 4 X 4416-12 (256K 120NS VIDEO CARD MEMORY SET) ........ $ 20.00 SET 1 - TALLGRASS TG-3012 (20MB TAPE/12MB HARD DISK) .......... $ 300.00 1 - EXTERNAL 3.5 INCH 720K DRIVE (WITH CABLE,CASE,CARD) ... $ 150.00 1 - PACKARD BELL AMBER MONITOR WITH NEW MG-150 CARD ....... $ 125.00 5 - 12 FOOT, 25 PIN FULL SHIELD EIA EXTENSION CABLES ...... $ 20.00 EACH 1 - HERCULES COMPATIBLE MONO/GRAPHICS/PRINTER CARD ........ $ 25.00 1 - MPI 5.25 INCH 720K DRIVE (FULL HEIGHT) ................ $ 50.00 1 - CERMETEK 1200 BAUD ASYNC/BISYNC HAYES COMPATIBLE MODEM $ 175.00 1 - HEWLETT PACKARD 1200 BAUD MODEM (NOT HAYES COMPATIBLE) $ 50.00 1 - 1 KVA CONSTANT VOLTAGE/ISOLATION TRANSFORMER ...........$ 200.00 The four 4416'S are used to expand a video card which did not come populated with 256K of memory (4X4X16=256). The chips were purchased for that purpose, but I bought another card instead. The Tallgrass is about 3 years old and in good working condition. The Tallgrass unit will only work on a 4.77 Mhz PC or XT (or a faster machine switched into the 4.77 Mhz mode). Included are 4 - 20MB tapes, the software, the operations manual, and the technical manual for the unit. The unit does allow you to back up from any drive on the system and is very easy to install and use. It is an excellent unit for anyone who wants a hard drive, and does not want to bother having to back up on floppies. I have been unable to use the Tallgrass since I switched to an AT. The external 3.5 inch drive is for someone who wishes their XT to be 3.5 inch compatible. It comes with a real IBM 4 port floppy controller for an XT, and uses the power supply inside the XT. The IBM card supports the two internal standard drives with the standard edge connector. The Packard Bell is less than 6 months old, and in excellent condition. The hercules graphics card is a new diamond flower MG-150 with printer port, still in the box with unopened software and manual (I switched to an EGA setup). The EIA extension cables are premium quality, full shield cables with all 25 pins. The Cermetek modem is an external, fully Hayes compatible, 1200 baud modem, which can run async or bisync with the flip of a switch. The HP modem is a model 35016A 1200 baud modem. It does not support autodial, but is a great modem for the beginner. If you have any questions, please contact me here, or in the private board section. Keith Beckmann --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1699 07-30-88 15:21 (Read 123 times) from: DOUG POUND to: ALL subject: CLONE HARDWARE MILWAUKEE I have a friend in the Milwaukee area and would like to know the names of some good Ibm Clone makers. Can I get some help? --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1701 07-30-88 16:34 (Read 128 times) from: JAMES IRVING to: ALL subject: APPLE PRINTER INTERFACE I have five printer interface cards for an Apple computer, and I have a problem. The cards are all new and in boxes ,have cables, a software disk, and instruction manuals. What I don't have is an apple computer to test them out on; in addition, the cable has 34 pin header sockets( ?, the female part?) on both ends. They boxes carry a Bell and Howell part number,but the cards were actually made by a company named Micro Peripherals, Inc.. The card was intended for use with the Apple II+, Apple IIe, and Franklin Computer; the printers mentioned are Bell & Howell models P100, p150, and pp150. The connection to the printer does not follow the Centronics standard, I've checked. I would appreciate any information on pinouts of the cable or the wiring of the mentioned printers. Better yet, if someone in Milwaukee would help me sort out the wiring and test the little devils, they can have one for their efforts. Yes, I know its not IBM and MS-DOS, but it does keep me off the streets ! Thanks for your time. -JTI- --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1704 07-30-88 21:45 (Read 132 times) from: RONALD ZORKO to: ALL subject: PCXT I have an IBM PCXT and want to add a controller for 1.2 and 1.44meg drives. I was told that it would not work because my BIOS was not resent enough. Can i upgrade to a different BIOS like Pheonix even though the board is IBM? HELP!!!!!!! --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1711 07-31-88 06:37 (Read 133 times) from: RON OSTROWSKI to: RONALD ZORKO (Rcvd) subject: R: PCXT Reply to #1704 Ron: Re your question: The IBM rom chip has a different number of pins comapred to the clones. BUT if you are sure that the Bios doesn't support a harddisk etc, RUN, DON"T walk to a magazine store and buy the latest version of Computer Shopper. The current issue has ads for genuine IBM roms. Of course you may alos find a supplier for a Phoenix Bios which is available for the IBM. zero >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1704 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1713 07-31-88 11:54 (Read 133 times) from: RONALD ZORKO to: RON OSTROWSKI (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PCXT Reply to #1711 It does support a hard disk. I called a company that sells this COMPATII CARD. They said it would work on TRUE BLUE. I,m going to give it a shot. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1704 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1718 07-31-88 19:46 (Read 131 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: RONALD ZORKO (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PCXT Reply to #1713 Ronald, I was under the impression that the COMPATICARD was a Floppy controller. I'll be anxious to find out if it will run a hard drive. Please let me/us know, OK? -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1704 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1721 07-31-88 22:17 (Read 128 times) from: RON OSTROWSKI to: RONALD ZORKO (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PCXT Reply to #1713 cc: NICK KEES Ron: I think that Nick Kees knows what Bios date on Pcs or Xts support a hard drive. Maybe there is another way but does Compati-Card allow you to boot? To find the date, use Norton's Sysinfo (SI) utility. zero >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1704 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1738 08-02-88 16:37 (Read 118 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: RONALD ZORKO (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PCXT Reply to #1713 We install 3.5" 1.44mb drives, and I bet it would work in your box. If it likes hard disks it's probably good enough. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1704 reply #5 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1748 08-02-88 22:07 (Read 117 times) from: NICK KEES to: RON OSTROWSKI (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PCXT Reply to #1721 cc: RONALD ZORKO All but the very earliest PCs had the BIOS to support a hard drive. I think the date of the first BIOS to support a hard drive was 10/27/82. I would bet that any BIOS of that date or later would also support 3.5 inch drives. Nick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1704 reply #6 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1768 08-03-88 21:32 (Read 112 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: NICK KEES (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PCXT Reply to #1748 I just helped upgrade a PC with BIOS date of 10/27/82 with a harddrive and 3.5 720k "stiffie" drive. The mother board dipswitch dealing with # of diskdrives had to be reset to the XT configuration or the Hard drive would come up as E instead of C. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1704 reply #7 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1890 08-12-88 16:32 (Read 121 times) from: RONALD ZORKO to: RON OSTROWSKI (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PCXT Reply to #1721 I know the date of my Ibm Pc XT Bios. And I know it supports a hard driver. My Question was is there a Ibm Xt Bios That supports high density controllers for 1.2 meg drives Ron >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1704 reply #8 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1891 08-12-88 21:00 (Read 117 times) from: RON OSTROWSKI to: RONALD ZORKO (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PCXT Reply to #1890 Ron: As far as I know, there is no problem using a 1.2 meg drive in an XT IF you get a high speed controller. I have seen them for as low as $50 but the normal price is a little higher. And they will support your 360K drive also. A friend put in a 1.2 meg as drive A>. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1704 reply #9 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1705 07-30-88 23:06 (Read 128 times) from: DAN KEMP to: ALL subject: 5.25 DRIVE AND PS/2 Hi. A friend obtained the IBM PS/2 System 50 with standard equipment of 3.5 A: drive and 30meg C: drive. She also purchased, separately, a peripheral 5.25 drive B:. The drive B:(360k) came with a program FIXFORM.EXE designed to "correct certain bugs which PS/2 has when dealing with a B: add-on". This does not apparently correct the problem - one cannot successfully format a 360k disk in drive B: from the C: drive(it formats up to track 13 and then FREEZES all). If one boots from the A: drive however - there is no problem formatting drive B:. If anyone has a suggestion for correcting this glitch, and or could just explain the problem, it might save my pard some trivial agony. Thanks. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1707 07-30-88 23:59 (Read 127 times) from: JAMES IRVING to: DAN KEMP (Rcvd) subject: R: 5.25 DRIVE AND PS/2 Reply to #1705 I've seen a similar hangup happen on a PS 2 at a customer site. COMPUTER SHOPPER recently ran an article on the bugs in the current DOS; if I can hear:here -JTI- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1705 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1708 07-31-88 00:04 (Read 128 times) from: JAMES IRVING to: DAN KEMP (Rcvd) subject: DOS BUGS Reply to #1707 Sorry, I've got to learn to use that editor. The last line should be that I will leave a message hear. -JTI- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1705 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1709 07-31-88 02:20 (Read 131 times) from: DAN KEMP to: JAMES IRVING (Rcvd) subject: R: DOS BUGS Reply to #1708 thanks, james. any info will be more. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1705 reply #3 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1716 07-31-88 18:19 (Read 130 times) from: JEFFREY WALLACH to: ALL subject: HARD DISK - TYPE UNKNOWN I just received a gift of a Full height hard disk which is of unknown type. Of course, it came with no documentation, configuration, nor info regarding compatible controller. It is called a Model 6426-S manufactured by Computer Memories, Inc. I believe it is 20 meg size but not certain what parameters it uses. I would also be interested in purchasing a compatible controller card if anyone has one and knows whether it will work. Any help is appreciated. Jeff Wallach --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1717 07-31-88 19:17 (Read 127 times) from: HAROLD WOODWARD to: JEFFREY WALLACH (Rcvd) subject: R: HARD DISK - TYPE UNKN Reply to #1716 I'm resonably shure that Computer Memories Inc. normally uses the trade name CMI. CMI does have a hard drive model 6426. This has to be one of them. You are right the capacity is 20 MEG. I would not pursue using this drive unless you are absolutely shure it works fine. CMI drives are well known for having problems. I suggest you contact A-1 Peripheral Service, 21900 Plummer Street, Chatsworth, CA 91311 (818) 718-6400. Tell them that you have a CMI 6426-S and you want a controller for it for your computer- AT XT whatever. I bought some CMI drives a while back. These are the people I ended up going to. They know the CMI drives. Mine needed repair and I could not get them to work with the controller cards I bought. These people repaired them. Later when I couldn't get them to work they told me their controller would work and it did. If it wasn't for their technical support I would never have got them working. I just looked at their add and they do list a CMI 6426-S so it is a CMI drive. Good Luck! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1716 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1719 07-31-88 20:04 (Read 125 times) from: JEFFREY WALLACH to: HAROLD WOODWARD (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DISK - TYPE U Reply to #1717 Thanks for your kind and prompt response. We are already having trouble runnung this drive in an XT Clone withn Microtek Boardwalk HDC 1000 controller card and all seems hopeless with frequent disk crashes, lost sectors,etc. Jeff WAllach >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1716 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1720 07-31-88 20:18 (Read 128 times) from: HAROLD WOODWARD to: JEFFREY WALLACH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DISK - TYPE U Reply to #1719 I forgot to mention. It is an MFM type drive. Don't even think of trying an RLL controller. They have a hard enough time with MFM. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1716 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1739 08-02-88 16:43 (Read 116 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: JEFFREY WALLACH (Rcvd) subject: R: HARD DISK - TYPE UNKN Reply to #1716 The CMI drives have a high flake rate, that is, a lot of them turn up flakey and unreliable. The 6426S is 4 head, 640 cylinder, write precomp and reduced write current at cylinder 256. I also have a note in my tech data that says "wedge servo- do not use on IBM XT controller" and I can't tell you what that means. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1716 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1740 08-02-88 16:45 (Read 117 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: JEFFREY WALLACH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DISK - TYPE U Reply to #1719 make sure you differentiate between the -S model and the one without. Different number of cylinder. s >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1716 reply #5 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1747 08-02-88 21:47 (Read 117 times) from: JEFFREY WALLACH to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DISK - TYPE U Reply to #1740 Tom, Thanks for your reply. I have done some further investigation into this drive and discovered that this drive was pulled from an original IBM AT circa 1984. It even has the original "Manufactured for IBM" plate on the case. It clearly will not work in my XT with a standard controller or under Disk Manager. It was sold to a friend of mine from a mail order company from California as part of a NEW SYSTEM. My friend could not get it to go in the system (XT) and wanted a half-height instead, so gave the drive to me. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with it. ..? nice paperwight. Jeff Wallach >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1716 reply #6 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1751 08-03-88 00:18 (Read 119 times) from: JEFFREY HOWELL to: JEFFREY WALLACH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DISK - TYPE U Reply to #1747 JEFFREY, . What would you take for the CMI drive (as a paperweight, that is)? . JEFFREY >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1716 reply #7 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1756 08-03-88 07:18 (Read 115 times) from: JEFFREY WALLACH to: JEFFREY HOWELL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DISK - TYPE U Reply to #1751 Right now my friend is so inflammed about being sold a "lemon" drive for a new XT system, and not even a drive designed for an XT configuration, that he is demanding replacement for this one with a NEW half-height drive more in the mainstream of PC (XT) computing. Will let you know if we are still stuck with it after all is said and done. Jeff Wallach >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1716 reply #8 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1760 08-03-88 15:23 (Read 116 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: JEFFREY WALLACH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DISK - TYPE U Reply to #1747 I disagree. You might actually get it to work on an XT. I dunno about that "wedge servo" stuff, though. Maybe somebody else do. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1716 reply #9 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1774 08-03-88 23:38 (Read 117 times) from: JEFFREY HOWELL to: JEFFREY WALLACH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DISK - TYPE U Reply to #1756 OK - THANKS >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1716 reply #10 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1777 08-04-88 17:28 (Read 116 times) from: HYONG BANG to: JEFFREY WALLACH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DISK - TYPE U Reply to #1756 Would you care to name the guilty party? We all need to stay away from, and discourage any business with people like that! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1716 reply #11 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1971 08-22-88 06:51 (Read 120 times) from: STEVE MORGAN to: HYONG BANG (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DISK - TYPE U Reply to #1777 HYONG, JEF, READERS, I own two of the CMI 6426 drives and yes they are flaky, but I haven't crashed them yet. First CMI is no longer in business and all of their testing equipment was sold to Peripheral Repair Corp. They can be reached at 818-700-8482, I had one of my cmi's that was opened I sent it in for repair and what I got back was vertually a brand new drive. Plated media new circuit board for $165. I am using the drives with the Western Digital 1002 WX1 controller with the Super Bios and they work pretty well. Just recently I installed the CMI with the plated media in a AT clone with the WD 1003 WA3 controller and it runs fine. I park the drive every time I turn it off and this seems to help. One thing I noticed about the drives if you run a park program you should hear an audible CLICK when you park the drive If you park the drive and don't get a click then the heads aren't parked properly. Good Luck! Steve Morgan >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1716 reply #12 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1727 08-01-88 20:06 (Read 121 times) from: TOM PEARSON to: ALL subject: COLOR cc: PHIL KATZ I am trying to use a composite color monitor with a genaric color card. The card works fine with RGB monitor but will not give me color out the video rf rca jacks. My card has two rca jacks one apears to be inverted video. I suspect there is a way to enable the burst signal which is what I feel is lacking since it displays 16 shades of grey. Anyone know if there is an address I can write too to enable burst and is this address common to all cards? -Thanx for any help -Tom --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1729 08-02-88 00:19 (Read 124 times) from: PHIL KATZ to: TOM PEARSON (Rcvd) subject: R: COLOR Reply to #1727 Tom, I would guess that there would be a switch or jumper on the CGA card to enable the color burst signal. Before you go hacking up the card though, try running the MODE program with mode CO80 and see if that clears things up. >Phil> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1727 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1733 08-02-88 10:26 (Read 117 times) from: TOM PEARSON to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: R: COLOR Reply to #1729 For the record I've tried CO80 I've also run a program called color.com that switches from the mono card to the color card it works but no color. I,m going to locate the book that came with it to check about a jumper. Thank's for the help. -Tom >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1727 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1741 08-02-88 16:48 (Read 119 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: TOM PEARSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: COLOR Reply to #1733 Two RCA jacks and a DB-9? Sounds a little like an ATI card, in which case you need MS.COM or SMS.COM >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1727 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1749 08-02-88 22:22 (Read 117 times) from: TOM PEARSON to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: COLOR Reply to #1741 ms.com + smscom what are these? Now to top it all of I just took a color card out of a leading edge that I seen put out color composite put it in and NO COLOR! I don't get it. I have an ibm compatible 512k and dtk bios never had a problem with any softwear. The card I have now is not a leading edge card but another generic with 1-rca 1-9pin and has ibm rom on it. Is it possible that some cards don't offer composite color. But I seen this one work hummm... -Tom >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1727 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1754 08-03-88 06:45 (Read 113 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: TOM PEARSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: COLOR Reply to #1749 Tom, I think COMPOSITE is the operative word here. Most I've seen don't! That could well explain why you get no color. If the signals aren't there, neither is the color. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1727 reply #5 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1761 08-03-88 15:27 (Read 114 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: TOM PEARSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: COLOR Reply to #1749 MS.COM (mode switch) is for cards that emulate color on monochrome or vice versa, or for cards that run color or mono monitors at the flick of a bit. It's for ATI cards, but maybe works on others. If that card has a real IBM rom on it, I doubt it's anything that advanced. It there a switch on your processor board for color/mono? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1727 reply #6 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1772 08-03-88 22:11 (Read 115 times) from: TOM PEARSON to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: COLOR Reply to #1761 It might just be a switch on the mother board since I just put another one in and no color. Anyone know if the 3.58 burst is derived on the card or the mother board? -Tom >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1727 reply #7 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1845 08-08-88 18:38 (Read 123 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: TOM PEARSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: COLOR Reply to #1772 But I'm pretty sure that color burst for color composit monitors in generated on-card, not on the motherboard. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1727 reply #8 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1864 08-09-88 23:22 (Read 124 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: COLOR Reply to #1845 Tom, My understanding of why IBM chose 4.77 MHz for the PC was to accomodate the color burst signal. Doug Severson had to take that into account when designing the PC-Sprint board. That's why it's a daughterboard, not a crystal replacement. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1727 reply #9 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1732 08-02-88 05:08 (Read 118 times) from: RUPERT MURPHY to: DAN KEMP (Rcvd) subject: PS/2 DRIVE B: Dan, I tried to format a disk in drive B: on a PS/2 with a rom dated 02/13/87. I had no problems at all. Does the drive work to read tracks above 13 on an old disk ? It does sound like a hardware problem with the drive. Murf --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1849 08-08-88 23:06 (Read 121 times) from: DAN KEMP to: RUPERT MURPHY (Rcvd) subject: R: PS/2 DRIVE B: Reply to #1732 Murf, it seems the problem was one of botched handling of interrupts caused by the use of AUTOPARK, intended for parking of XT/AT hard drives but, apparently, not for the PS/2. I am a TSR fiend and I probably caused an interrupt-handling overload or sumthin. Anyhow, removal of this particular TSR removed the problem. Trial and error for all that. Thanks for the response - Dan (chugging at 4.77 still, me.) >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1732 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1851 08-09-88 05:03 (Read 126 times) from: RUPERT MURPHY to: DAN KEMP (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PS/2 DRIVE B: Reply to #1849 Dan, thanks for the line to explain the solution. Happy putering ! Murf >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1732 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1734 08-02-88 11:41 (Read 119 times) from: DUANE KONKEL to: ALL subject: HARD DRIVE SPECIALS ********************************************************* * * * Hard Drive Specials * * * ********************************************************* * * * Seagate Technologies * * * * ST-225 bare........................$235.00 * * ST-225 w/cont,cables...............$295.00 * * ST-238 bare........................$265.00 * * ST-238 w/cont,cables...............$335.00 * ********************************************************* * * * New Miniscribe August Special Pricing * * * * 3650 (40 meg mfm) bare.............$329.00 * * 3675 (60 meg rll) bare.............$375.00 * * * ********************************************************* * * * If you have any questions on these or other * * drives or other configurations, leave a * * private email here or please call * * * * DAK TEKnologies * * @ 549-1220 * * * ********************************************************* --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1742 08-02-88 16:50 (Read 118 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: DUANE KONKEL subject: R: HARD DRIVE SPECIALS Reply to #1734 It might be better to advertise items for sale in the buy/sell conference, rather than in the hardware conference, unless answering a specific question. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1734 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1745 08-02-88 19:58 (Read 113 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: ERROR MESSAGES Tom, While digging thru my collection of messages from this conference, I ran across one in which you alluded to other things that cause the "parity error at ssss:oooo" from the Phoenix bios. Would you care to list a few of them. I've never encountered it, but who knows. It never hurts to be prepared just in case. Sure would appreciate the info. -[Steve]- --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1759 08-03-88 15:22 (Read 112 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: ERROR MESSAGES Reply to #1745 I'm to not what you refer to, maybe a long treatise I did on meory errors a while back..? That should be posted on the Mahoney collection. As far as other causes for parity errors, I guess the obvious ones are bad RAMs (including bad Parity row RAMs which make the computer lie about where the actual bad chip is) and bad address decode, or refresh, chips. Lots of computers today are running at 8 or 10 mhz with parts that can only run that fast stone cold. Get them a little hot, or a little old, and things can get flakey. Some programs seem to corrupt things so badly that parity errors result, although I can't think of a way to cause it from a program. I have seen, however, power line garbage cause RAM parity errors. A glitch can come and go so fast that your lights don't even flicker, yet your computer is in a dimension not of sight or sound, but of crash: The Twilight Zone. We here on the upper east side have real dirty power. We had to put in a $1400 UPS to keep our big computer from crashing 4 times a day. None of this seems specific to the Phoenix BIOS though. It all applies to nearly all types. Personally, I'd take the Phoenix bios over this ERSO and DTK stuff I hear about. Phoenix really seems like the most solid one around, by far. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1745 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1766 08-03-88 19:50 (Read 111 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: ERROR MESSAGES Reply to #1759 Tom, I have made about a dozen copies of the description you gave on locating the offending row or chip. Just want to be sure I don't loose it. The Message I referred to said, out of context, "The good (?) news is that other things can cause this message, especially the Phoenix version of the message". I yhink it was an earlier version of the message that prompted you to leave the longer reply. You went on to suggest a 6-8 hour run of "Ramtest". I agree with your assessment of the Phoenix bios in general. As long as I am able to get it that is what I will run. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1745 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1750 08-02-88 22:24 (Read 115 times) from: DOUG WILKINS to: ALL subject: ANSWERING MACHINE I am considering purchasing a PC Board answering machine. There are three I know of. WATSON, THE COMPLETE PC, and BIGMOUTH. I was wondering if anybody has any good or bad comments about any of the products. I am not going to use it for business. It is for personal use. However I will have a need to call certain groups and deliver messages and possibly obtain responses sometimes. I will also want to dial my pager and pass Pass my phone number or a number the caller leaves that they wish me to call. I have one of those digital pagers. If anyone has any ideas, I would be happy to hear them. Doug Wilkins - Louisville, KY --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1778 08-04-88 20:23 (Read 112 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: DOUG WILKINS (Rcvd) subject: R: ANSWERING MACHINE Reply to #1750 Call 1-800-6-WATSON to hear that card in operation. That is the manufactures demo, nice professional voice and all. Call the Motor Vehicle department in Milwaukee before hours to hear what they sound like after a user programs it. The MVD uses one, they do not manufacture one. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1750 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1752 08-03-88 00:39 (Read 117 times) from: ROBERT REED to: ALL subject: EXPANDED MEMORY I HAVE A TANDY SX 1000, WITH 640K ON THE MOTHERBOARD, A ST 238 SEAGATE HARDDRIVE, A 2400 B ZOOM MODEM (INTERNAL). HAS ANYONE OUT THERE WENT BEYOND THE 640K BARRIER ON AN SX AND IF SO WHAT WITH. ALSO IS POSIBLE TO UPGRADE MY POWER SUPPLY FROM 67W TO A 150 WATT P0WER SUPPLY. SUGGESTIONS GREATLY APPRECIATED. THANKS!! --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1764 08-03-88 15:43 (Read 117 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: ROBERT REED (Rcvd) subject: R: EXPANDED MEMORY Reply to #1752 Tandy and other somewhat off-beat stuff has one typical problem with power supplies: physical size & mounting concerns. If you can find one that fits in the case, it should work. Assuming the connectors mate up, of course. If you have IBM pc compatible slots, you can probably stick 2mb of ram in there on an EMS card. That can be used for cache, ramdisk, and print spoolers. And extra spreadsheet space, if you have a recent version of Lotus 123 or Supercalc. One more thing: TAKE YOUR (*&^%$#@$%&^%$%&^&^ CAPS LOCK KEY OFF! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1752 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1770 08-03-88 21:39 (Read 110 times) from: HAROLD WOODWARD to: ROBERT REED (Rcvd) subject: R: EXPANDED MEMORY Reply to #1752 The physical size of the power supply on the Tandy 1000 prohibits swaping powerr supplys with a standard XT type. By looking closely through some of the surplus adds in Computer Shopper you may find a replacement. Or f you're electronically minded you may be able to "gut" an XT type power supply and place it inside the case to the power supply on the 1000. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1752 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1755 08-03-88 06:49 (Read 113 times) from: BILL KISSE to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DRIVE TYPES Reply to #796 I've been using an ST225 with RLL controller for six months with no problems (my Miniscribe RLL drive bit the dust an I found an "old" ST225 in the shop and decided "what the heck"). I originaly wanted to use the ST225 until the Miniscribe came back from service but have kinda been interested in seeing how long it would last. A detailed analysis of the drive reveals NO BAD SECTORS even after this six months. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this. Of course, I back up to tape daily. Thanks for your response....Bill. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1762 08-03-88 15:32 (Read 115 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: BILL KISSE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DRIVE TYPES Reply to #1755 Ten minutes to seven in the blessed AM? What kind of fanatic are you???!!! (grin) DO NOT FAIL FOR EVEN ONE DAY TO BACK UP TO TAPE. You're lucky. You seem to have found an exceptional drive, one that exceeds the written specs for read/write timing by a wide margin on all counts. ST-225 drives that meet and do not exceed Seagates specs for 225's fail miserably under convential RLL controllers. They usually format up and by the time you have finished loading DOS and applications, start developing bad sectors. More and more crop up, until its unusable. Took 2 days for one I tried and two hours for another. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1755 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1796 08-05-88 22:25 (Read 126 times) from: KEITH BECKMANN to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DRIVE TYPES Reply to #1762 cc: BILL KISSE I have done some extensive research into the area of using the ST-225, with an RLL controller, and have concluded a few things. Early generation 225's will typically not runn RLL consistently. They can be idenified by observing the top outer case of the drive. If it has what looks to be a button towards the front, near the warning label, it is an early generation. The next 2 generation 225's appear to have the same media as it's brother the 238. It can be identified, again by looking at the top cover of the drive. It will have 7 small holes in a circular pattern. The second generation is a little harder to identify. The board must be removed form the drive, and it must be noted if a crystal exists on the board next to the 80007-001 chip. If it does have a crystal, you have a second generation 225. This drive will work RLL, but may cause problems down the road. Typically you will notice that the drive will get slower access times when tested with a reliable program such as coretest. The third generation 225 does not have a crystal on the board. It should be noted that the board is almost identical to the one that comes on a real 238, in fact if you carefully lift the blue plastic cover off the PC board, it might actually say "CONTROL ST-238". Be very careful not to bend up the copper tab that is under the blue plastic cover. That copper tab is the only thing keeping static away from your platter. Most of you will find that you do have the second generation drive. But for the chosen few you may find that Seagate was short of 225 boards one day and substituted the 238 board in its place. Looking at it from the standpoint of the manufacturer, would it make sense to produce two physically the same drives, except that the platters were different? Of course not. If they could put the same platters in either drive, or in fact use the same module, coming from the same factory in singapore, you could save yourself a bundle of money. Just look at the ST-40xx series. Even the lowly 4026 has the same number of platters as the 4096, even though they are not all used. Just a word of caution, I don't recomend using the ST-225 RLL, and the information that I have given is purely speculative. I have had many problems in finding out some of the things that I know. If I had to do it over again, I think I start with the Maxtor 1140, and be happy. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1755 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1801 08-06-88 09:26 (Read 117 times) from: BILL KISSE to: KEITH BECKMANN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DRIVE TYPES Reply to #1796 Thanks for taking the time to respond regarding my questions about the ST-225's. Your thoughtfulness is appreciated. The info was extremely helpful.......Bill. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1755 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1815 08-06-88 22:53 (Read 117 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: BILL KISSE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DRIVE TYPES Reply to #1801 I have been running ST225's with RLL since March 1988, no problems, i bought the drives about 6 months before getting the RLL. One drive is 3 meg from full the other about 6 meg. I have had them both under 1 meg free and no loss of data, have run optimizers (Norton, PCtools), no problems. About the worst that has happened is a slow sector but no loss. I am running an IBM PC/2, OMTI RLL controller. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1755 reply #4 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1757 08-03-88 07:56 (Read 115 times) from: GARY LIPP to: ALL subject: PRODUCT RECOMMENDATION I would like to request information regarding a product which will enable a user to password protect his hard disk. The program should also be able to prevent access to the hard disk from booting off of Drive A. If anybody has any suggestions please drop me a line. Thank you. Gary Lipp --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1765 08-03-88 15:45 (Read 117 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: GARY LIPP (Rcvd) subject: R: PRODUCT RECOMMENDATIO Reply to #1757 Get on the Mahoney collection and do a scan for "password". It seems to me I've seen several programs go by that do that. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1757 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1780 08-04-88 20:27 (Read 117 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: GARY LIPP (Rcvd) subject: R: PRODUCT RECOMMENDATIO Reply to #1757 PCLOK for a scan in Mahoney... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1757 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1763 08-03-88 15:38 (Read 113 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: SYSOP (Rcvd) subject: PK361.EXE Bob, what is PK361.EXE? A Phil Katz update? or somebody elses? Is it really something you checked out, as the description seems to imply? --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1771 08-03-88 21:45 (Read 114 times) from: PHIL KATZ to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: PK361.EXE Reply to #1763 cc: SYSOP Tom, Do a "Who uploaded" that file for PK361.EXE. It should report back "Phil Katz". PK361.EXE in the file section here is legit. >Phil> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1763 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1789 08-05-88 12:45 (Read 119 times) from: SYSOP to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: PK361.EXE Reply to #1763 Yes, it is an official upload from Phil Katz himself. bob >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1763 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1769 08-03-88 21:37 (Read 110 times) from: PAT PFAFFL to: ALL subject: SHADOW RAM Does shadow RAM simply copy the ROM from the graphics board into RAM to speed things up, or is there more to it? Does this work for VGA, or only EGA? Any input would be appreciated. Pat --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1775 08-04-88 06:02 (Read 108 times) from: DAVE NELSON to: ALL subject: MDA AND PRINTER PORT I have an old, no name, far eastern Mono display addapter [adapter board which has a printer port hardwired as LPT1. It has been able to co-exist with my system by turning off the printer port on the multiffunction card. I am now using OS/2, and of there are problems with the printer port on the mono card. Is there a quick and dirty way to disable the printer port as far as the system is concerned ? --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1776 08-04-88 10:46 (Read 109 times) from: SCOTT CHAMBERLAIN to: ALL subject: ROM MYSTERY! For all you hardware geniuses out there, and owners of Leading Edge Model M's, please see message #25446 in the IBM General area with the same title. You may save a desperate balding programmer's hair! Thanks, Scott --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1779 08-04-88 20:25 (Read 114 times) from: RUSS TERRY to: HYONG BANG (Rcvd) subject: R: R: SPEED 4 ARC Reply to #819 Hyong, even if a VAR was on the board, they would be foolish to advertise blowing hardware out the door. I work for a VAR that got nailed doing it last year (before my time). Needless to say, the top dogs that were involved in it are no longer with us. Now if you would like to get into some used systems (I'm assuming you're interested in S/3x) give me a call. Prices are going to drop through the floor once we start shipping AS/400's and you will be able to get hardware at unbelievable prices. Call me if you're interested. at 784-9099. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1781 08-04-88 21:39 (Read 111 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: ALL subject: NEC APC I have a friend who has an NEC APC with 8" disk drives, a 8086 processor running at 5Mhz using 2.11 MSDOS, with an integral 800x640 8 color monitor. Is there any practical way to either add or substitute a 5.25 or 3.5" disk drive to this system to let it use current software? If so, what about adding a hard disk? --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1786 08-05-88 08:06 (Read 115 times) from: STEVEN KEY to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: NEC APC Reply to #1781 David, Speaking as a person with 4 8" disk drives on CP/M at home, and having written my own disk driver software for them, I would say probably not. I believe that you might POSSIBLY get a 1.2 MB 5 1/4 or 1.44 MB 3 1/2 to work with DOS 3.2. The problem with the 360k and 720k drives is that they have a differnt data speed going to and from the drive. The problem with the DOS 2.11 is that it doesn't let you use custom drive tables for different drives. It might be possible to use a loadable device driver in the CONFIG.SYS file to take care of this. If NEC or some of their dealers can't help you, the chances are that you could buy a nice AT clone for what it would cost to modify the APC. Steve >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1781 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1790 08-05-88 19:19 (Read 115 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: STEVEN KEY (Rcvd) subject: R: R: NEC APC Reply to #1786 Thanks, Steve. I suspected this would be the case. I think the system's owner just wants to see if it can be done; I believe he's been offered an AT clone by someone upgrading. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1781 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1782 08-04-88 21:42 (Read 117 times) from: DAVE CLAY to: ALL subject: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE cc: STEVE SHATTUCK cc: STEVE MCCRYSTAL cc: ERIK DUFEK I sure could use some of that good old EXECPC advice. Can any one tell me the what the jumper blocks are for on a Toshiba "stiffie" drive? The bottom row selects the drive #, but what does the top row do? On my new ND-356T-A, FDD 4603; I found the top block in the center position. In that position, I think the density switch is active. In the front position, I can format any stiffie to either 1.44mb or .72mb. The trouble is, my 1.2mb A: quits working. I want to be able to format the factory second (excellent quality but mis-packaged) 3M HD 1.44mb stiffies that I bought for $1.25 each. They do not have the second hole. Also, my friends like to HD format the DD stiffies and I want to be able to read them w/o adding an override switch to my brand new drive. What I have done is remove the jumper block completely. The question is, what risk am I taking? ( I am the only person who will ever format on this drive). Preliminary testing gives no errors. Any comments are greatly appreciated, Dave Clay --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1783 08-04-88 22:25 (Read 116 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: DAVE CLAY (Rcvd) subject: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1782 Dave, I have some docs here for a Toshiba drive, but not that one. If you are unable toget any info from your request, let me know and I will try to come up with something. Sorry. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1784 08-04-88 23:05 (Read 114 times) from: MARK TELLIER to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1783 Steve, I'm starting to install the same 3.5" drive as Dave. My documentation is also lacking. If you have a source to some info, I would also be interested. - mwt - >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1785 08-05-88 06:21 (Read 116 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: MARK TELLIER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1784 cc: DAVE CLAY Mark and Dave, Right now the only thing I can offer is a number for Toshiba Tech Support. They are at 714-583-3139 from 9-5 Pacific time. Or at least they were the last time I called! The Main reason I didn't reply to Dave's earlier message is that I wasn't sure exactly what he was asking. He mentioned the "top row" of jumpers. I wasn't sure if he meant the A-B jumper for changeline support or just what. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1793 08-05-88 22:04 (Read 119 times) from: WILLIAM BIRD to: DAVE CLAY (Rcvd) subject: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1782 cc: MARK TELLIER cc: STEVE MCCRYSTAL I called Toshiba to get the documentation on the drive you're asking about. They sent it without any problem. First, I ran the drive without the density select jumper for about a month with no problem. I assume you can leave it that way with no problem. If you want to do it right, here's the scoop. . First the drive that I have has the jumper block vertical relative to the location of disk mechanism, the documentation draws the jumper block the other way, like you describe yours. . Second, they did no make the jumpers simple like device select on bottom row, density select top row. Thats the same thing I assumed before I got the document but couldn't get it to work. . With the intro, I will try to describe how its supposed to work. . . DISK pin 1 2 3 4 8 7 6 5 The way the disk was probably shipped you had jumpers between 2 and 3 and between 5 and 6. The jumper between 5 and 6 specifies the drive select and should not be changed (4-5 is DS1, 5-6 is DS2). The other jumper (2-3) indicates density select by media, the thing you don't want. The options for this jumper are: 1-2 Host select reverse logic (not what you want) 2-3 Density select by media 2-7 Host select standard logic (this is the one you want) 7-8 Not documented (your guess is as good as mine) Hopefully this is clear enough. If not, let me know and I will go into it further. Have a good day....Bill >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1794 08-05-88 22:14 (Read 114 times) from: MARK TELLIER to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1785 cc: DAVE CLAY cc: WILLIAM BIRD Steve, Thanks. I called information today and recieved the same information that Bill has posted. I've installed the drive and it works with the device driver supplied with the drive. It does rigorously follow the media select switch on the diskette and requires the use of the supplied program to format a diskette. I've had no luck in formatting 720K diskettes to 1.44M. I have tried setting the jumpers in the 2-7 position (as Bill numbered his jumper block), but no go. - mwt - PS. I think I will cc Bill and Dave on this. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #5 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1797 08-05-88 23:24 (Read 115 times) from: ERIK DUFEK to: DAVE CLAY (Rcvd) subject: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1782 Sorry I didn't have any input for you but this thread seems to have most of the basics covered. I still own a 4.77 MHz machine and haven't even thought about installing a 3.5 drive. My only interest in the subject is because we have a 1.4Mb drive in our new machine at work and I bought some disks to use on it. But the boss won't let me open up his new toy so my "cheap" floppies will have to remain formatted to 720K. .....That is unless I could modify the floppies themselves. They came out with notchers for single sided floppies, why couldn't the same principle apply here? The square is marked but it doesn't appear that it could easily be punched out. I thought of using a Dremel tool and grinding it out but discarded that idea as producing too much plastic dust on the inside of the disk carrier. The only other thing I can think of is melting a hole in the carrier. No dust and it looks like it won't be too close to the edge of the disk. But will a single hole round hole suffice or would the entire square have to be removed? Haven't gone any further with the idea. Not yet anyway. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #6 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1798 08-06-88 00:00 (Read 113 times) from: MARK TELLIER to: ERIK DUFEK (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1797 Erik, I've been thinking along the same line as you are. I was thinking of setting up a drill press with a vacuum cleaner and drilling some round holes in the appropriate location. I just may experiment with a couple of diskettes and see what happens. - mwt - >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #7 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1800 08-06-88 09:24 (Read 120 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: WILLIAM BIRD (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1793 Bill, Thanks, I'm sure that it will help all of us. As you know, I drew heavily on information you provided in the past in getting my setup working and the insight you provided is most appreciated. It has been suggested that someone capture the thread in "General" regarding the 1.44M drives. If you have no objection, I'd like to include your earlier messages as well. Any problem with that? -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #8 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1802 08-06-88 09:32 (Read 118 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: MARK TELLIER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1794 Mark, That was my problem. I didn't want to have to resort to a device driver, especially since the one supplied by the vendor of the drive didn't work! I now have it running w/o a driver except for DRIVPARM in a modified PC DOS3.3 and it works with PCTools backup, Formatmaster, and DOS format. That is all that I really care about. The fact that I can use cheap stiffies relaibly is really just a fringe benefit. Glad you got it working. They are nice once you get them set up. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #9 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1804 08-06-88 09:43 (Read 120 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: ERIK DUFEK (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1797 Erik, Actually it is quite easy to open the hole safely. You are mostly accurate about the Dremel making too much dust, but it can be controlled by using a vaccuum cleaner held close to the disk as the hole is drilled thru. But even easier is to use a n electric drill at slow speed or a hand drill to do it, using the vaccuum cleaner here as well. The hole can be round as long as the pin in the drive will fit easily through it. It need not be square, just in the right place. Give it a try on one disk and see what happens. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #10 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1816 08-06-88 23:00 (Read 118 times) from: ERIK DUFEK to: MARK TELLIER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1798 I'm not sure a vacumn would collect all the dust. Once the drill went through the first layer of plastic is where you would have the problem. I think the dust would migrate between the layers. You may not have problems right away but I think eventually a piece of plastic would migrate to where it would do some damage. That's why I thought melting would work better. I think the only way to find out is to experiment. Let us know how yours turns out. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #11 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1817 08-06-88 23:05 (Read 116 times) from: ERIK DUFEK to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1804 Not having seen the inside of the drive how big is the pin? About the size of a pencil lead or the size of a paperclip? I still think a vacumn wouldn't be able to do the job sufficently to prevent damage. Maybe Mark Tellier will find out. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #12 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1819 08-07-88 02:10 (Read 114 times) from: MARK TELLIER to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1802 Steve, Please tell me a little about your set up with the 1.44M drive. I would like to dump the device driver if that was an option. What type of machine do you have, what did you modify in DOS 3.3, and please clarify the comment on DRIVPARM; I thought DRIVPARM was only available in MS DOS and not in PC DOS (as you mentioned in your message). I look forward to your response. - mwt - >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #13 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1823 08-07-88 08:09 (Read 110 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: ERIK DUFEK (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1817 Erik, The pin is about .060 in diameter, but I found a 1/8 or slightly larger bit worked well. And if the dust generated by drilling the hole with a Dremel causes any problem, it hasn't happened yet. The first disk I did it to I used a Dremel and that disk has been formatted and writen to and erased more than anyone is ever apt to. And it still works great. If the dust worries you, use a drill press or even a hand drill. PLEASE don't try to melt a hole through. That WILL give you problems. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #14 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1825 08-07-88 08:40 (Read 112 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: MARK TELLIER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1819 Mark, Great! I hoped someone would catch that. Yes PC-DOS 3.3 had to be patched. As I recall only one or two bytes needed changing to activate DRIVPARM. The code was always there, it had just been patched to NOT work. Another great idea from Big Blue. Anyway, there is a file in Mahoney called "DRIVPRM3" (I think) which contains the info on how to do it. Try a scan for DRIV and if it is not there, let me know and I'll u/l it. The guy who developed the patch is a real friend to all of us who are trying to get 1.4M drives to function since it will eliminate the driver in MOST cases. At least that has been my experience. Then, there was an article in that fine technical publication "Computer Shopper" that described another one byte patch to IBMBIO.com to change the head settle time in the disk base table which helped a great deal. It eliminated a lot of "invalid media or track zero bad" errors which I had suspected all along were not valid errors or not being accurately described by the message. My machine is a generic XT clone at 10Mhz. I have put 1.4M drives in several AT machines and MINE in several AT class machines and have not had any problems. Setup took care of it on them. But there is a guy that I've been working with that has had problems on an AT class machine. So it may not be an easy thing in all AT class machines. But the DRIVPARM patch is worth the effort. I'm sure that you could pull it off without a hitch. I suppose if there was some interest I could develop a debug script to do all the work for both patches. Hope this helps. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #15 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1829 08-07-88 13:19 (Read 111 times) from: WILLIAM BIRD to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1800 I have no problem with the capture. Let me know when it has been uploaded and I will look at it. Have a good day....Bill >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #16 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1831 08-07-88 20:25 (Read 112 times) from: ERIK DUFEK to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1823 Two questions. Where does the hole need to be? In the center of the square or in one of the corners. Why is melting such a NoNo? Is the disk too close? I was thinking of using a temperature controlled soldering iron to do the dirty work. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #17 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1834 08-07-88 20:57 (Read 112 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: ERIK DUFEK (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1831 Erik, The hole should be in the center of the "ghosted" square. Another way would be to open the write protect tab on another disk and lay it on top of the "drillee" and trace the outline with a fine tipped permanent ink felt pen. Then drill in the center of that. The big problem with melting a hole through is the plastic that would flow into the disk cavity while doing the melting. AND the media itself is very close to the hole. I'm afraid of what the heat might do to the media. But with a drill bit, the chips are drawn out by the flutes on the bit, so none will get inside. I used a Dremel with a 3/32 drill bit in it and it worked sweet. But my Dremel has variable speeds. It's your dime, go fo it! -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #18 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1836 08-07-88 21:19 (Read 116 times) from: ERIK DUFEK to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1834 Ok you've convinced me for now. I'll get a variable speed and put a hole in the vacumn cleaner. Wait that's not right. Vacumn up the media detect hole. Almost but that's not it either.... Too much time staring at a CRT. Those RGB's are dangerous. I'll experiment on a few and let you know what happens. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #19 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1838 08-07-88 21:40 (Read 114 times) from: MARK TELLIER to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1825 Steve, Do you remember the issue of Computer Shopper that contained the article you referenced. I also subscribe to this technical wonder (:-). and could look up the article. Do you know of any one with Compaq's who have used your DRIVPARM patch with success???? That's what I have and would be interested in knowing if its worth the effort. I understand the Compaq has an upgrade for the BIOS ROM's for my machine that will allow 1.44M's to boot as the A: drive, but they want over $100.00 for them. - mwt - >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #20 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1839 08-08-88 06:55 (Read 113 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: MARK TELLIER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1838 Mark, The patch to activate DRIVPARM is contained in a file in Mahoney called "DRIVPRM3.ARC". The other patch for the disk base table was in the either July or August Shopper. I can't remember which but one of those. I'll find it if you can't. Both patches can be done on a 'system' disk and just sys'ed to your boot HD. If it doesn't do you any good, just sys in another copy from your DOS original. And if you are using a virus detector, don't forget to tell it about the changes. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #21 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1848 08-08-88 21:38 (Read 120 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1804 I have an XT clone with the drive controller on a passive backplane motherboard, which I may or may not be able to disable. I want to add a 3.5" floppy, but fear the 720k format may not be around as long as the 1.44meg. I have read much about and experienced problems with 360k disks from 1.2meg drives; is there a similar problem with 7.20/1.44 read/writeability? Can I install the Compaticard(?) to run one 360k 5.25" drive and one 1.44meg 3.5" and still have no problems with 720k stiffies? Do I need vendor drivers to get 1.44meg with MSDOS3.2? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #22 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1852 08-09-88 07:10 (Read 127 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1848 David, As far as I know the problem of changing formats in a 1.4M drive does not exist. At least not in a PROPERLY working 1.4M drive. At least I have not heard of it, or experienced it with my setup. You will need EITHER DOs3.3 or a device driver to use 1.4M drives at 1.4M and the CompatiCard may be the way to go. I have heard good things about. My only objection to it is the price. Far to expensive. But if a guy wanted to read/write a bunch of exotic CP/M formats, I guess it would be worth it. I don't! -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #23 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1857 08-09-88 20:55 (Read 123 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1852 Thanks, Steve. Things I've heard about DOS3.3 have made me a bit wary. Where would I get a device driver for a specific drive, assuming I mailorder it? Would the manufacturer or dealer be able to supply it, or is there something on Mahoney that could be used with DOS3.2? I'm not eager to sacrifice a slot for a card that more than double the cost of the single floppy it would be used with. I've been trying to follow the 1.44 thread, but so many people are having different results with different hardware, not to mention modifying drives and stiffies.(Now if I fold a 8" 1.2meg CP/M floppy into quarters and trim it just a little...) Anything you can do to dispell the confusion is appreciated! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #24 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1860 08-09-88 21:54 (Read 126 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1857 David, The driver SHOULD be available from the vendor of the drive. If not, there are several places advertizing them in the Shopper and most of the PC mags . I have heard of all the problems with DOS 3.3 but have not experienced any of them. That makes me suspicious, since if anyone is going to happen to anyone it will be me (a variation on Murphy #4). There is nothing here that I know of that will work with 3.2, but most of the third party drivers are advertised as working w/ 3.2. However, buying a driver from the vendor of the drive does not assure you that it will work with the drive. Use whatever method is necessary to insure that you can return anything you buy if it will not work. As an example, early on I bought a drive and a driver as a package and they would not work. I questioned the vendor and they said I must have a WD-FOX controller for it to work. I got one of those for a good price and it still wouldn't work. The vendor then got the whole thing back and I got my money. The next time, I ordered all the stuff from another vendor in the same box and it didn't work either! Different drive make, different driver, same results. I've been at this for nearly a year, trying to get it going and last month I made it!! I have also done a bit of "trying" with other hardware with mixed results. I must admit that things get a little confusing. But when you concider that two Mitsibishi drives purchased 3 months apart are completely different and the same holds for Toshiba, you can see how it could. What works with one won't necessarily work with the next one. It really is fun. Can't wait to do it again.Most of the current discussion involves trying to get the QD drives to use media advertised as DD. That is where the modified disks come in. But if you are willing to spend $3.50+ for a 1.4M QD or HD or whatever they choose to call it, you should have no real problem with DOS3.3 and a compatible combination. Sorry, but I don't seem to be able to dispell the confusion. I have finally accepted the confusion. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #25 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1861 08-09-88 22:08 (Read 122 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1860 Is this the new CHAT mode already? What combination worked, and did it still require 3.3? And while I'm tugging your ear, I've been seeing reviews of VGA cards that seem to indicate that BIOS and register compatibility have arrived. I'm using an 8Mhz XT clone, and would a VGA card with multiscan monitor be hampered by 8088-2 speed? Assuming ALL reviews are taken with salt grains, a June issue of Infoworld seemed to say the Paradise card was a good value, but nothing I've seen talks about speed while they all seem to test the cards in 386 boxes. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #26 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1867 08-10-88 06:29 (Read 126 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1861 David, I'm using a Mitsubishi drive and a controller from QIC Research. It is a DTK product and only runs two drives but they may be mixed. It DOES require DOS 3.3, but I was using it anyway. This setup works well in anything I have tried it in. As for the VGA board, there are a lot of people who can be of more help than I. I am using EGA, and find it acceptable. May never upgrade. But ALL the reviews I have seen seem to like the Paradise card. Sorry I can't help here. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #27 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1873 08-10-88 19:02 (Read 119 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1867 Thanks, Steve. Maybe I should reconsider 3.3, but first I have to find out if my integral floppy controller can be disabled. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #28 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1878 08-11-88 15:06 (Read 118 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1848 1. I don't understand why people are so uneasy about device drivers for 3.5" 1.44m drives. Everybody has device drivers, from ANSI.SYS to VDISK.SYS and my second hard drive doesn't even work without the driver. To answer your question: YES you need a driver for dos 3.2 or anything less than 3.3. As to the other question, it depends. Is the NEC 765 floppy controller chip in socket or soldered in? Sometimes just yanking that chip will disable it. Or maybe you can set the switch that controlls the number of floppies to zero. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #29 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1883 08-11-88 21:27 (Read 119 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1878 Tom, I have an aversion to device drivers for the 1.4M drives for two important reasons. First, they eat up useable memory unnecessarily. I've proven that. Second, I have purchased and returned for credit three of them that didn't work. One of these came from the same vendor that I purchased the drive from and they wanted to charge me 40% restocking to prove that the driver would not work with the drive. That was until I whipped the 'implied warranty that the product would do something worthwhile' on them. Then they were only too happy to refund all my money! Hope this helps to explain my position. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #30 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1892 08-12-88 22:53 (Read 118 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1878 I'm not leeery of device drivers, DOS 3.3 is what bothers me, having heard reports of bugs; have obtained a copy of Compaq 3.31 to experiment with. I will check for the specified NEC 765 chip and ask the manufacturer what they recommend. If the chip is there its likely to be soldered like my 8088-2. I also use a device driver to give me 31meg drives D and E on my second HD. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #31 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1920 08-16-88 12:29 (Read 119 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1883 We have installed several 1.44mb drives, using device drivers, and our usual class of customer is quite happy. We don't switch to DOS 3.3 to do the same thing because 1. its more expensive 2. DOS 3.3 is buggy 3. DOS 3.3 takes more space anyhow. To each 'is own! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #32 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1922 08-16-88 12:38 (Read 121 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1892 If you can't get the 765 out, see if the switches that determine the number of floppy drives can ne set to zero. Else you have to pull the board that has the floppy controller and get other boards to replace its other functins. I did some cut and solder work on one combo board, and I'm not anxious to repeat it. Cut the wrong trace, overheat a chip, or make some other mistake, and it's all over. Besides, every design is different. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #33 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1926 08-16-88 20:38 (Read 129 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1922 I talked to a local rep for the manufacturer, who told me there is an NEC 765, and that I may be able to disable the FDC by pulling the chip; he hads never done it so he wasn't sure. In my backplane system, the motherboard sits in a slot with integral FDC and 640k RAM on a half card in a nother slot. I don't want to risk frying the motherboard to disable the FDC, so I'll try pulling the chip first. Second sentence is ambiguous; FDC is on M'board, 640k not. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #34 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1929 08-16-88 23:14 (Read 128 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1920 Tom, To each, indeed. I find the advantages Dos3.3 far outweigh the reports of bugs that I have read but never experienced. But I got it to replace Dos3.2 which had a zillion bugs, several of which I did experience. If a guy just plain doesn't want to uprgrade, I guess the device driver is a good way out. But, as I said before, I had three of them; two of them HUGE and none of them worked! That was enough to convince me to look for another way out. And to me, the CALL batch function was worth the upgrade price if that was ALL I got. Perhaps a good topic for a thread would be the reported 'bugs' in Dos3.3... what do you think? -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #35 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1932 08-17-88 06:57 (Read 126 times) from: BOB BLAIR to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1929 cc: TOM PETERS Like you I have yet to experience these bugs in DOS 3.3. And also really appreciate the ability to CALL other batch files. What are these bugs? Bob >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #36 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1934 08-17-88 08:25 (Read 127 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: BOB BLAIR (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1932 Bob, Darned if I know. I have read all sorts of reports on 'buggy DOS 3.3' but I don't remember seeing any listing of what they are. That is why I suggested a new thread, so you and I and others could find out what kind of evil lurks there. I really hope that we can get it started. If my data or system is in mortal danger from using 3.3, I for one would like to know what to look for. But the reported bugs in 3.2 are very real, I've experienced several of them myself. Version 3.21 is supposed to fix all of that, but by the time I got around to that, I had scrapped it for version 3.3. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #37 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1936 08-17-88 16:51 (Read 124 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1926 Pulling the NEC 756 usually doesn't work becuase the addressing/bus decode/handshake logic is done by ttl chips in the neighborhood of the 765. I had to cut and solder to keep them from responding to the bus. If they did, the NEC would never generate the ACK signals and the machine would lock up. But go ahead and try it anyhow. You need another floppy controller to try in its place, nearly any type will do, even a simple 360k 5.25" only type. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #38 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1937 08-17-88 16:54 (Read 126 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1929 Sure, I'd like to know what to look out for with DOS 3.3. I have not heard any real solid info on DOS 3.3 bugs. I do know that DOS 3.21 is a very solid release; I have sold over 30 machines with it and no problems. Version 3.20 was big trouble tho. So yes, a DOS 3.3 thread would be a good idea. Wanna start one? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #39 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1939 08-17-88 21:34 (Read 129 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1936 Rhanks, Tom, I'll have to see if I can get something or other, the only way I could see if pulling the chip would work would be if there was some alternative to the original FDC present. I believe I saw another message from you about a 1.44meg drive kit you offer to EXEC-PC users for $225, what specifically does this include as far as manufacturers, model #s and so forth? Are you a vendor or do you work for one? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #40 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1946 08-18-88 14:42 (Read 126 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1939 I work at Stevenson's Office Equipment, 414-964-6330. We sell the 1.44mb kits installed or as a do-it-yerself. If you buy it without our installation, the technical assistance we can offer is kinda limited. The $225 offer is the 1.44mb kit for XT class machines, controller and drive. The drives are Toshiba, the controllers are WD -FOX cards. NOTE: that is subject to change. The last info I had from my vbendor is that the WD -FOX cards are on short allocation, and may be hard to get. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #41 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1948 08-18-88 19:36 (Read 125 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1946 Will the WD-FOX control one 1.44mb 3.5" and two 360kb 5.25" drives? Would I have to disable any current FDC? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #42 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1951 08-18-88 22:56 (Read 128 times) from: MARK TELLIER to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1946 Hi Tom, Have you had any experience with the Toshiba drive in Compaq's (with ROM upgrades / no device drivers)? I'm finding the Toshiba drive won't work out of the box in a upgraded Compaq. Any ideas? - mwt - >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #43 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1957 08-19-88 16:40 (Read 127 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1948 1. Yes, the WD FOX card will controll a mix of 360k, 720k, 1.44m, and maybe even 1.2mb drives, but I've never tried more than 2 drives. I'm not sure how to hook 'em up, but it might work. Two drives is easy. 2. Yes, you must disable the current floppy controller. If the NEC 765 chip is in a socket, that can be done, but whether it is or not, it isn't easy. Unless it uses the same 756 and PAL that kapyro does. Then you just pull the nec 756 and the PAL. Otherwise, I have some wiring diagrams and instructions I drew when I did one. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #44 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1958 08-19-88 16:45 (Read 130 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: MARK TELLIER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1951 No. Did you say you aren't using the included device driver? Why not? Also, is this an AT style machine, with CMOS ram and a setup program? If so, change the drive type for floppy 2. Believe it or not, some machines MUST have that drive set to 360k 5.25" even tho its a 1.44m 3.5" drive! Some other machines we used had to have floppy 2 set as a 1.2mb 5.25" because it uses the same transfer rate. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #45 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1960 08-19-88 20:11 (Read 135 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1957 Tom, The -FOX board, feature 002 and feature 004 will control 4 drives, two internal and 2 external thru the rear connector. The older -FOX will work well with a 1.44m drive on an AT but not too well on an XT, even tho it should. The new 1002A-FOX with the bios chip option does work well on an XT as well as an AT. In fact, that is why there is an A-FOX. They had to re-do the thing to handle the many varied drives that are being sold. I'm told the new board will work with ANY 1.44M drive, but obviously I haven't tried it with all of them. But Toshiba and Mitsubishi do work. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #46 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1961 08-19-88 20:15 (Read 136 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1958 Tom, I have also noticed the situation requiring seting floppy 2 to 5.25". I suspect that the problem is the way the controller handles pin 34. But that is a guess on my part. Sure would like to know for sure tho, would make a number of things a lot easier. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #47 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1963 08-19-88 21:22 (Read 135 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1957 Will this never end? Arghhhhhh...OK, I'm better now, so please tell me what a PAL is and how would I identify it. I'm told the 765 is socketed, but haven't had time to locate and check it. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #48 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1966 08-20-88 00:34 (Read 138 times) from: MARK TELLIER to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1958 Tom, First, I solved the problem with my Toshiba installation. I've CC'ed you in the GENERAL conf. Second, I didn't like the device driver approach because: 1) it uses more memory; 2) the disk drive device drivers seem to be a bit on the hacked side (implementation wise); 3) I still needed a special QFORMAT command (NON DOS) to format a diskette. Third, the CMOS RAM was set to indicate a 3.5" drive with a diagnostics diskette from Compaq. The ROM upgrade to use the 3.5" diskettes prevented having to fake out the BIOS with 5.25" setting for other type of equipment. I like things to be designed and maintained with a clean order to them. I don't like band-aid patches to "get it to run". I know, I know, most people will say if it works, it ain't broke. I have found out to many times, that in the long run, clean and ordered is much less trouble. - mwt - PS When the Toshiba was set as a 5.25" drive (360K), it would really format 360K on a 720K or 1.44M diskette. Not a concept that my mind would dream up without some help. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #49 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1973 08-22-88 12:29 (Read 124 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1963 Um, like I said at the PC-NIC, PALS are numbered according to 3 things, and they are typically imprinted PAL16L8 or PAL8L8 or even maybe PAL8L16. There are other characters used besides the L in the middle. Often the PAL part is omitted. PAL16L8CN is a common one, the CN part meaning "improved" and "epoxy plastic". Since they are field-programmable, (once) the OEM will often slap his own label on it so he knows what is was prgrammed for. Most PALs are 18-pin dips, or 20-pin, same width as a 41256 RAM chip but longer. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #50 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1978 08-22-88 20:58 (Read 125 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1973 Thanx, will search for any of these as soon as I can. Share water. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1782 reply #51 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1799 08-06-88 04:20 (Read 110 times) from: BOB BARRIE to: ALL subject: COMPAQ POWER SUPPLY ANYONE KNOW IF A HIGHER WATTAGE COMPAQ I POWER SUPPLY EXISTS? THE ONE THAT IT COMES WITH HAS PROVEN TO BE TOO LOW POWERED? BOB --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1806 08-06-88 17:11 (Read 111 times) from: DAVE CLAY to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE cc: MARK TELLIER Steve, Thanks for the technical support phone # of Toshiba. Their documentation was very careful to omit it. I really dig their "friendly" remark: "Toshiba *WILL NOT* accept technical support calls directly from the end user." on page 4 of the supplement. BTW, how about the bundled system driver by Bastech being copy protected, isn't that a crock? Thanks to all for the help, Dave Clay . --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1811 08-06-88 20:15 (Read 110 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: DAVE CLAY (Rcvd) subject: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1806 Dave, You are right, it IS a crock. But what is worse, it doesn't work! A few short sessions with an option board will allow all the copies you need, I've done it many times. Managed to get back to the original 5 installs by copying and restoring the key to the copy repeatedly. But I finally gave up on it because it ate some memory and didn't work anyway. The trick for you is to let Toshiba know that you are not the end user. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1806 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1822 08-07-88 02:42 (Read 108 times) from: MARK TELLIER to: DAVE CLAY (Rcvd) subject: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1806 cc: STEVE MCCRYSTAL Dave (and Steve), My Toshiba drive came with software from Franklin Telecommunications. My manual also said that Toshiba wouldn't talk to end user's in one place and in another gave an address to "call" if help was needed. No phone number was given. The telephone company gave me the Toshiba central number and the operator gave the phone number posted in the previous message, no questions asked. - mwt - >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1806 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1826 08-07-88 08:43 (Read 106 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: MARK TELLIER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1822 Mark, I'm sure that will help Dave. End user status is not a problem for me, and they told me NEARLY everything I wanted to know. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1806 reply #3 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1807 08-06-88 17:15 (Read 110 times) from: DAVE CLAY to: WILLIAM BIRD (Rcvd) subject: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE cc: STEVE MCCRYSTAL cc: MARK TELLIER cc: ERIK DUFEK Bill, Thanks a whole bunch for the data on the Toshiba drive. You and the rest of the folks on EXEC-PC really help make "Impossible Dreams" come true with your expert advice. I tried your suggested 2-7 jumper and all works very well. Both IBM PC-DOS 3.3 and Pctools can format either HD or DD stiffies to 1.44 mb and both programs format the DD stiffies to .72 mb. The following data is for the benefit of others who may be following this thread and can use a little extra data. Only one of my stiffies has the density hole, but all can be formatted to 1.44 mb. I have installed the Toshiba in its own little box on top of my CPU cabinet using the CPU,s internal power supply and the CPU's internal WD controller. Preliminary tests indicate very little EMI. I am not using any special driver. The Dell D-11 ROM-BOIS picked up the extra drive just fine. After formatting .72 mb stiffies to 1.44 mb, they are very hard to reformat to the correct density. I suggest using a big magnet on them first. They then format without bad sectors. BTW, most of the machines at work have a little extra 3 position switch wired to the media sensing switch. One position is for media sensing, the other positions are for forced .72 mb and forced 1.44 mb. That way, no messing with drilling of holes and no messing with the cabling is required. Thanks again for all the help, Dave Clay . --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1818 08-06-88 23:16 (Read 112 times) from: ERIK DUFEK to: DAVE CLAY (Rcvd) subject: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1807 cc: STEVE MCCRYSTAL cc: MARK TELLIER cc: WILLIAM BIRD The only reason I got into this thread is because the machine at work uses a 3.5 drive. But now after using it for awhile I'm considering getting one for my machine at home. What kind of machine do you have XT or AT? Would I be able to get a 3.5 to format to 1.4Mb using an XT if I went to DOS 3.3? As you can tell I really haven't been paying all that much attention to this thread. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1807 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1824 08-07-88 08:19 (Read 105 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: ERIK DUFEK (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1818 Erik, I have an XT clone and have used a 1.4M drive in it. You will need DOS3.3 or some sort of device driver that will let the drive work with DOS3.2 but I recommend upgrading. Then you will need a controller that will operate the drive. It is unlikely that your current floppy controller will work, unless it is something special. There is a thread in "general" that has gotten so long I'm surprised we haven't gotten evicted. There many of the problems and solutions have been discussed, but that tread is more concerned with one make of drive and one set of circumstances. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1807 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1830 08-07-88 13:28 (Read 110 times) from: WILLIAM BIRD to: ERIK DUFEK (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1818 I have an IBM version XT using PC DOS 3.3. The 1.44 meg drive is connected as drive A. The only problem that I have is that I have to boot from the 1.44 meg to get it to work right. I believe that that is a problem with PC DOS 3.3. If you have a choice, the MS version may work better. I am looking for PC DOS 4.0 to see if that helps. If you want more info, let me know. Have a good day....Bill >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1807 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1832 08-07-88 20:33 (Read 110 times) from: ERIK DUFEK to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1824 Naw, I doubt Bob would evict us. Might ban us to some nether conference though. If I remember correctly the discussion was on the Toshiba drive. I also doubt if my current controller would work. Looks like I'll have to start doing a little shopping around in Computer Shopper. Maybe this is a good reason to think about an upgrade for the entire system. That VGA and the multitasking of the 386 are starting to look real good. Thanks for the info. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1807 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1833 08-07-88 20:36 (Read 111 times) from: ERIK DUFEK to: WILLIAM BIRD (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1830 Well I've decided to start looking into the price of a 1.44Mb drive since it will work on my XT. But then I'll need to update my DOS also. Maybe I'll just start looking into a 386. Thanks for the info. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1807 reply #5 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1837 08-07-88 21:32 (Read 110 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: ERIK DUFEK (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1832 Erik, Take a look in the Shopper for an outfit called QIC Research. The controller I have came from them and it works on an XT or an AT class machine. Or, if money is no object (it IS in my case!) then the 386 does sound like the way to go. Or we can wait till Nick, Glen, et al get their 386SX board out. That could be REALLY appealing to a guy with no bucks! -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1807 reply #6 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1850 08-08-88 23:42 (Read 120 times) from: ERIK DUFEK to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1837 At the moment money is an object. At least tile I make my first 2 or 3 million. When I said 386 I should have said 386SX but I couldn't remember the initials. When they do come out I suppose I should wait awhile to let the market shake out the rough stuff and let the price settle. I'll check into QIC Research. I'll also be looking into some sources I've used in the past. I probably won't decide on whether to get a new computer or just the drive for a good 6 months. Right now I'm car shopping. There the decision is whether to buy a new one or a used. Decisions, decisions! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1807 reply #7 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1879 08-11-88 15:17 (Read 113 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: ERIK DUFEK (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1832 $260 installed in most computers: 1.44mb drive and controller. We include batch files for formatting. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1807 reply #8 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1884 08-11-88 23:02 (Read 115 times) from: ERIK DUFEK to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1879 How much if I do the installation? Can I just set the drive parameters or do I need a special driver? What do the batch files do beyond calling FORMAT.COM? How about a price for an external 5 1/4 to be connected to a PS/2? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1807 reply #9 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1921 08-16-88 12:35 (Read 116 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: ERIK DUFEK (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MB DISK DRIVE Reply to #1884 If i understand you questions: 1.44mb kit with controller for XT's: $250 for the general public, $225 for EXEC-pc people. It's less if you have an AT. The batch files invoke QFORMAT with 2 or 3 options required for the four common formats on 2 different sizes (5.25 & 3.5"). You could memorize the parameters and skip the batch files if you want. DOS 3.3 is supposed to support 1.44mb 3.5 format directly, but people have reported problems. We typically run DOS 3.21 or similar and use the device driver. It works pretty good. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1807 reply #10 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1810 08-06-88 20:01 (Read 107 times) from: HAROLD WOODWARD to: ALL subject: 1.4 MEG DRIVES From glancing through these messages, most of you people out there that have 1.4 MEG drives have the Toshiba. I am considering buying one. I would like to make shure I get one that I can format double sided disks to 1.4 Meg. Reading the responses it looks like the Toshiba can do this for me, is this correct? Anyone know of any other drive that will do this? If I may suggest, I believe if you use a single hole hole punch for "loose leaf" binders I beleive that will work to make a clean hole if you muscle it. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1880 08-11-88 15:20 (Read 113 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: HAROLD WOODWARD (Rcvd) subject: R: 1.4 MEG DRIVES Reply to #1810 I doubt you could punch a hole thru all that plastic on a 3.5" stiffy with a paper punch. Most won't open up big enough to get the disk into its maw. Even if it could, you'd likely mangle the shell so bad it would be useless. Besides. the hole is WAY too big. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1810 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1893 08-13-88 06:50 (Read 115 times) from: HAROLD WOODWARD to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 MEG DRIVES Reply to #1880 Thanks for the info. I'll try it tonight and see what happens. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1810 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1813 08-06-88 20:57 (Read 112 times) from: GEORGE BARTI to: ALL subject: HELP WITH COMPAQ VGA CAR ANYONE WITH A COMPAQ VGA CARD PLEASE LEAVE ME A MESSAGE AND I WILL GET BACK TO YOU WITH A MORE DETAILED REQUEST. THANKS --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1814 08-06-88 21:32 (Read 113 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: GEORGE BARTI (Rcvd) subject: R: HELP WITH COMPAQ VGA Reply to #1813 George, I have a Compaq VGA but I will reply to future requests only if you turn the caps lock key off. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1813 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1840 08-08-88 07:27 (Read 110 times) from: NEIL WOOD to: ALL subject: 1.4 ON 720K CONTROLLER I know the high density drives (1.2 and 1.44M) require a special controller and I presume that this is because the disk run at different speeds. But what about those of us who have built in controllers that only drive 360k's and 720k's. Do we have an option. Any comments or suggestions would appreciated. Thanks Neil Wood --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1846 08-08-88 20:19 (Read 115 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: NEIL WOOD (Rcvd) subject: R: 1.4 ON 720K CONTROLLE Reply to #1840 Neil, Hope someone can answer that one! I've been wondering about that myself. I assume that the onboard controller would have to be disabled somehow. This is NOT easy to do unless some provision is made for it by the board manufacturer. Suggest you leave a note for Doug Severson. If anyone can tell you, he can. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1840 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1881 08-11-88 15:22 (Read 116 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: NEIL WOOD (Rcvd) subject: R: 1.4 ON 720K CONTROLLE Reply to #1840 I have disabled the floppy controller part of a multifunction board, with difficulty, but it is reliable and leaves the other finctions untouched. If the NEC 765 is socketed, and also some of the address decode and other chips, it should be possible. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1840 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1882 08-11-88 15:49 (Read 115 times) from: NEIL WOOD to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 ON 720K CONTRO Reply to #1881 Don't know if there is a NEC 765 con the mother board (where the controller is) but will check. At any rate the only socketed chips are the BIOS and CPU. This is not a big issue with me but it seems like an area where someo ne with some electronic smarts could make some money. Perhaps a small daughterboard like device the plugs into the edge connector of the drive and essentially partitions the 1.44M into two 720K jobs. Thanks for the response anyway> Neil >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1840 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1919 08-16-88 12:26 (Read 115 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: NEIL WOOD (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4 ON 720K CONTRO Reply to #1882 There is no way to partition a 1.44mb drive into two logical 720k pieces unless you can read the 1.44mb format. THIS IS NOT A DOS LIMITATION PROBLEM! Understand this, the 1.44mb format is PHYSICALLY different from the 720k format, as the 1.2mb 5.25" format is from the 360k format. Remember the CP/M days? Those of us with Kaypro II machines wanted Kaypro IV models because they had double density drives. Oops, bad analogy, the issue there was number of sides. But you get the idea. The transfer rate os wrong for 1.44mb drives on the old controllers. You can't get there from here. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1840 reply #4 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1853 08-09-88 07:16 (Read 122 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: MARK TELLIER (Rcvd) subject: DOS 3.3 PATCH Mark, The patch you are looking for is on page 310 of the August shopper. The article also has a few other neat patches, like "ECHO<sp><sp." to get a blank line, etc. I didn't use them, but the disk base thing is handy. I have been searching thru IBMBIO and IBMDOS for about a year and wasn't able to find it. Sure thank the guy who did! -[Steve]- --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1854 08-09-88 07:35 (Read 119 times) from: NEIL WOOD to: DOUG SEVERSON (Rcvd) subject: 1.4M ON 720K CONTROLLER cc: STEVE MCCRYSTAL I know the high density drives (1.2 and 1.44M) require a special controller and I presume that this is because the disk run at different speeds. But what about those of us who have built in controllers that only drive 360k's and 720k's. Do we have an option. Any comments or suggestions would appreciated. This is a copy of a memo I posted to ALL. Steve M. replied and suggested I I ask you. The integral controller seemed like a good idea when I bought the machine, but now I'm not so sure. The documentation makes no mention about being able to disable the controller. Maybe someone will develope a 1.4m drive with the necessary circuitry internal to it to allow 1.4m operation on a conventional controller. Neil Wood --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1862 08-09-88 22:28 (Read 117 times) from: DOUG SEVERSON to: NEIL WOOD (Rcvd) subject: R: 1.4M ON 720K CONTROLL Reply to #1854 Other than changing the controller to something like the "compticard" - which can suposedly handle any mixture of floppy types - I don't know of any way out of your delemma. Doug >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1854 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1869 08-10-88 08:19 (Read 117 times) from: NEIL WOOD to: DOUG SEVERSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.4M ON 720K CONTR Reply to #1862 Thanks, thats what I was afraid of. neil >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1854 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1856 08-09-88 16:48 (Read 122 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: ALL subject: MATH CHIP SPEED cc: PHIL KATZ cc: DOUG SEVERSON I have this strange 80286 based machine, with an XT (8 bit) bus. One of the shareware 80287 speed checkers says that the 80287 in it runs at about 3.9 mHz or so, despite the machine's 8 mHz clock speed. Here's the big question: For AT type machines in general, what speed 80287 do I need to pay for? I now have to get an 80287 for a 16 mHz machine. Do I have to pay for a 16 mhz math chip? Will it really be run that fast? I don't fancy paying for all that speed if the computer will only push the math chip to 10 mHz. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1863 08-09-88 22:39 (Read 120 times) from: DOUG SEVERSON to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: MATH CHIP SPEED Reply to #1856 In 8088 based machines, the 8087 MUST run off the exact same clock as the 8088, so what speed 8087 you need is easy to figure out. The 80287 however, can run off a completely different clock than the 80287 - to complicate things even more, the 80287 can be set via a pin to use the incoming clock directly or divide it by two. Just to save money, most AT clones seem to just feed the 287 with the processors clock and set it to divide by 2 - which seems to be your case. With some of the newer 286's running at 12 mhz & up, I would doubt that they would use the processors fastest speed clock, but rather the lower speed that most can switch back to. The best thing to do is to measure the 287's clock with a 'scope or freq counter. Doug >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1856 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1865 08-09-88 23:24 (Read 118 times) from: KEITH BECKMANN to: DOUG SEVERSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MATH CHIP SPEED Reply to #1863 The 8088 based machine has the clock of the 8087 tied to the clock of the 8088. Since the clock is common to both chips a 10Mhz motherboard runs the 8087 at 10Mhz also. The clock is typically generated from a 8284 which is a divide by 3 clock generator for the 808X processor line. The crystal feeding into the 8284 will be 3 time higher than the frequency of the clock which is driving the 8088. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1856 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1866 08-10-88 02:19 (Read 116 times) from: DOUG SEVERSON to: KEITH BECKMANN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MATH CHIP SPEED Reply to #1865 Correct - I designed my first 8086 based system about 7 or 8 years ago - back when the fastest 8087 was 5 mhz. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1856 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1868 08-10-88 07:52 (Read 116 times) from: STEVEN KEY to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: MATH CHIP SPEED Reply to #1856 Tom, I don't have any thoughts on your '87 speed, but I am interested in your 8 bit '286 system. Is it a replacement motherboard like the Bullet 286 or someting like that? Is it a plug in accelerator card? I've been thinking about going the Bullet route, and would like to hear from some who have done it. Steve >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1856 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1871 08-10-88 15:18 (Read 118 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: DOUG SEVERSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MATH CHIP SPEED Reply to #1863 Thanks for your informed reply. Could you expand on a few things for me and everybody else who cares? 1. Can any 80287, even a 8 mhz one, handle an incoming clock up to twice its rated freq, provided its pinned to divide by two? I guess I wonder if the flipflop that does the /2 in an 8mhz 80287 can cope reliably with a 16mhz clock. Is that designed in? 2. Switchable speed processors in particular and PC/XT/AT type machines in general must have a heck of a lot of clock signals floating around inside. Is it true that all of these are generated separately in some machines? Processor clock, clocks for the cards in the expansion slots, color burst for composit video, clock from which to generate baud rates, clocks for math coprocessors? What's the common arrangement for XT's and also for AT's- One master clock from which everthing else is derived? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1856 reply #5 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1872 08-10-88 15:20 (Read 112 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: STEVEN KEY (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MATH CHIP SPEED Reply to #1868 It's not a Bullet ;286 (whatever that is) or any sort of replacement MB. It's an original ITT XTRA/XP. It was, at the time, a cheaper faster alternative to the IBM PC/AT. That's no longer true of course. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1856 reply #6 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1877 08-10-88 23:02 (Read 111 times) from: DOUG SEVERSON to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MATH CHIP SPEED Reply to #1871 Tom, I gave you some slightly incorrect info - the 287 can be set to use the incomming clock directly or divide it by 3, not 2 as my faulty memory gave me. That relates to your first question. If you set the 287 to divide by 3, the clock can't be quite 3 times the rated speed - if you look at the 287 spec sheet for clock period for the 8 mhz version, it gives a min period of 125 ns as expected for an 8 mhz part when the clock is direct. When divided by three, the min period is 50 ns., not the 42 you'd expect. Older designs tended to use the least number of crystals possible, adding another crystal only when you couldn't derive a desired frequency off an existing one. That's why so many older machines like the PC run the processor at seemingly odd rates - the processor speed was usually derived from the video. In those days, that tended to reduce costs, not only by eliminating crystals (very expensive then), but also reduced synch circuitry needed to interface to the video, since both used the same timebase. These days, crystals are cheap and VLSI eliminates the worry need reduce chip count. Also, the use of multiple, local crystals reduces the total path lengths that clock signals have to travel, which is virtually necessary to meet FCC EMI specs. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1856 reply #7 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1875 08-10-88 21:33 (Read 114 times) from: DALE REID to: STEVE SHATTUCK (Rcvd) subject: 1.44 DRIVES Steve... I have been following your discussion with some interest. YOu were of help to me earlier in the evolution of 1.44's when I was trying to get mine up and running. ISN"T IT FRUSTRATING to NOT be able to get reliable information on any attempt at a standard? I spent countless time on the phone to Western Digital and Adaptac TRYING, PLEADING to get a programmers manual to find out just what the data lines, pin-outs and register designations would do. Invariably I got the answer that there were manuals, but they were for INTERNAL use only, and the general public couldn't get ahold of them. The local reps were intially helpful in telling me they could be of service, but eventually they came up with nothing, too. I really would like to know WHY a jumper on a drive does what it does. What does pin #34 do on the back of a drive , on the edge connector. HOW does the controller interpret that? Why is it that the early Teac 1.44 drives would not give a whit about whether or not thee was a hole in the disk case and just go ahead and put 1.44 on the floppy, and the new ones now have a sense switch to detect the difference. How does DOS or the BIOS sense the type of drive out there? I know pin 34 must have something to do with it, but how? My AMI BIOS needs me to tell it if the high density drive is a 3.5" or 5.25", and then the controller seems to get the message as to whether or not a 1.44 or 720 is in place. The most configurable drive I have found so far is the Mitsubishi 1.44. It has pins that can tell it that it is either a 720 or a 1.44. You also can disable or enable the little sense switch that asks if the inserted disk is a HD or a regular. The nice thing about this is that if you take a bit of wire and a switch or two, you can make it LOOK almost like any thing. My TEAC frustrated me so much (and my backup programs, and my format programs) that I finally took a bit of wire, a hot soldering pen, and lifted the soldered on terminal of the sense switch so I can now controll the drive from my front panel. But as things get smaller and smallerl and more an more surface mount wave soldering is done, that modification is more risky and dangerous. Certainly the information MUST be out there somewhere. How else could Gibson write SpinRite? How can PCTOOLS get PCBACKUP or FASTBACK to work? How do the guys that write the device drivers that we seek so desparately come up with the right addresses or registers to write to? The libraries are not repleat with info on this subject. Does anyone know of a techinical reference that makes this all so clear? I agree with you, I hate device drivers when something could be included with the original BIOS or DOS. Apart from looking for an intermittant memory error, the most time , the most frustrating time, I have spent with this hobby/work, is trying to get the (*&(%$^%# 3.5" drives to work. Even with a 16 bit controller card that is in a 386 machine with the latest BIOS, I have a kludged panel with a user installed switch on the front panel. By the way, I cant get a 1.2 5.25" floppy to read on a 360 drive. Ever. Does anyone have experinece with the COPYPCAT or whatever program that lists for $79 that says it will write two tracks onto a 360 to make it readable? Has anyone seen a Public Domain program that does this for a lot less? Dale --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2005 08-24-88 18:14 (Read 133 times) from: STEVE SHATTUCK to: DALE REID (Rcvd) subject: R: 1.44 DRIVES Reply to #1875 Dale, The 1.2 on a 360 drive is probably the width of the written track rather than anything you are doing. The 1.2 drive writes a track about 48% as wide as the 360 drive. Thus the signal gathered by the 360 drive is inadequate and probably mixed with noise in the area around the track that is not erased by the heads on a 1.2 drive. Some combinations work and some do not. It doesn't even seem to be consistent within drives of the same brand. Steve >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1875 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1876 08-10-88 22:26 (Read 112 times) from: RICHARD AKESON to: RON OSTROWSKI (Rcvd) subject: C/SHOPPER & ROMS Ron, I happened across a message of yours to Ron Zorko re: Genuine IBM ROMS advertised in Computer Shopper Magazine. I was recently unable to up the speed on one of my ATs because of the "speed trap" rom it contains. I regret the imposition, but do you think you could find that ad and post the address/phone here. I'd sure appreciate it. Thanks. -RCA- --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1888 08-12-88 05:17 (Read 116 times) from: RON OSTROWSKI to: RICHARD AKESON (Rcvd) subject: R: C/SHOPPER & ROMS Reply to #1876 RCA: Re your request:" I happened across a message of yours to Ron Zorko re: Genuine IBM ROMS advertised in Computer Shopper Magazine. I was recently unable to up the speed on one of my ATs because of the "speed trap" rom it contains". I haven't looked for Rom chips for ATs. The question was Roms for PCs so that they could use harddrives. But they may have chips for ATs also. HI-TECH Electronics, 216-951-1884, $25 each, 16 for $15 each -hard drive compatible bios for IBM Pcs. 7686 St Clair C, Mentor, Ohio 44060. There are other ads for Phoenix rom chips for AT class machines. Let me know if you want those addresses. zero >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1876 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1885 08-11-88 23:09 (Read 118 times) from: GUY HUSSUSSIAN to: ALL subject: PC- HARD DISK I am planning on installing a hard disk on my IBM-PC and am wandering if there are any hardware limitations on having one. (Besides having to replace the power supply). The model I Have is a IBM-PC model 5150. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, GUY --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1889 08-12-88 07:25 (Read 116 times) from: AL HANSEN to: GUY HUSSUSSIAN (Rcvd) subject: R: PC- HARD DISK Reply to #1885 Make sure your BIOS is the latest version, your chassis may have a "B" stamped on the back. AL -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1885 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1887 08-12-88 02:38 (Read 120 times) from: ROD DODD to: ALL subject: WHICH 386 ? I am looking to invest in a 386 system. Can anyone give me their feedback on which systems to seriously consider. I am planning to remove my ST-251 and EGA card from an existing system, so I basically need the 386 box with a floppy hard disk controller. Thanks for any input, Rod --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1896 08-13-88 21:46 (Read 111 times) from: RUDY UNDERKOFLER to: ALL subject: PARITY CHECK ERROR I have a parity check error which appears at times. How can I determine the faulty chip so it can be replaced on my IBM PC-XT. Appreciate the info from anyone who can advise. Thanks. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1899 08-13-88 23:43 (Read 114 times) from: NICK KEES to: RUDY UNDERKOFLER subject: R: PARITY CHECK ERROR Reply to #1896 Write down the error number and let us know that bit of information. Soome Someone here should be able to tell you which chip is the culprit once we have the error number. Nick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1896 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1901 08-14-88 16:05 (Read 119 times) from: DERRICK NORRIS to: ALL subject: HARD DISK PROBLEM I am having a problem with my Seagate ST-277R disk drive. I just finished building an AT compatible consisting of a 16 MHz 80286 motherboard made by Tanny Computer Inc. (ATS-20), a Western Digital RA2 controller, EGA by Boca, a Teac 1.2 meg 5-1/4" floppy, and the ST-277. No matter what I try, Disk Manager (version 3.20) will not format my drive to 26 sectors per track. It always gives me "Unrecoverable I/O Error" at head 4 of the first cylinder of my write/read partition. After exiting, I cannot access this drive: I get a General Failure Error. My ROM Bios does not support 26 sectors per track, but Disk Manager is supposed to override this. I have Phoenix Bios Version 3.10 00, bios date 01/15/88. Until I get this figured out, I have the drive formatted to 17 sectors per track (the exact parameters for an ST-251 [820 cylinders, 6 heads]: maybe a 277R is a 251 in disguise?). This gives me 40 megs out of the 65 I paid for. Any help would be eternally appreciated. If anyone may have a hint, but needs more information, just let me know. By the way, I called the On Track BBS and downloaded their bulletin describing how to format on an RA2 controller. It does not work for me. Thanks to anyone in advance. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1907 08-15-88 07:36 (Read 118 times) from: JOHN REDFORD to: DERRICK NORRIS (Rcvd) subject: R: HARD DISK PROBLEM Reply to #1901 The 277R IS a 251 in disguise. The RA@ is a weird controller. Regardless of what you tell Disk Manager, any DOS partition made on the RA@ will probably be only 17 sectors per track.... Make a small dos partition and then ther rest of the disk write/read partition(s). you will find that the w/r partitions are indeed using 26 sectors per track. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1901 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1911 08-15-88 21:39 (Read 114 times) from: DERRICK NORRIS to: JOHN REDFORD (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DISK PROBLEM Reply to #1907 John, thanks for your reply. I found out from Ontrack Systems, the makers of Disk Manager, that my RA2 card is designated F001, which means it operates in "translate mode only." What this means is that the disk controller ignores all information sent to it by Disk Manager, and reads only the ROM BIOS drive table on my motherboard. Therefore, I can only access 17 sectors per track. (The RA2 supplies "ghost sectors" to itself in order to access the drive as 17 sectors). I have left a message on Ontrack's BBS asking about their SUPERPROMS. They supposedly have a drive table that holds 255 drives. I may be able to solve my problem using this. Again, thanks for the reply. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1901 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1924 08-16-88 18:10 (Read 120 times) from: JOHN REDFORD to: DERRICK NORRIS (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DISK PROBLEM Reply to #1911 Probably not, with the f001 mod. you really wanted the F000 version of the RA2 controller. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1901 reply #3 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1902 08-14-88 16:14 (Read 114 times) from: TOM CANTARINE to: ROD DODD (Rcvd) subject: #1887 I Use an Everex Step386/20 with 4 meg of RAM. The system was shipped with a 1:1 controller. Maxi-Swith Keyboard, Everex I/O, AMI BIOS. Everything runs on it, and runs very well indeed! Can't praise the machine too highly. I added a Paradise 480 EGA, Maxtor 70Meg 28ms Incomm internal 2400 Bps modem, Mouse Systems Mouse, etc. Running Windows 386, QEMM 386. Everything is flawless. No idea what they sell the system for over the counter. My company is a dealer for the machine, which really doesn't affect my view of the quality of the equipment. Only problem, which QEMM solved, EVEREX at that time (April) did not have a memory manager as part of the system. You simply can't go wrong with this machine. Fast (4.91 MIPS) faster than all the 20 mhz machines on the market, 5 device bays, etc. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1903 08-14-88 19:33 (Read 115 times) from: LEE BREGER to: ALL subject: PCTOOLS FORMAT I am using pctools deluxe v4.11 to try and format 3 1/2 disks at both 720 and 1.44 I have been getting error messages when attempting to do so. Does anyone know of any bugs with this part of pctools? The computer is a 286 clone with a 1.2 and the 1.44 drive. I haven't had any problems with the 5 1/4 drive. Does this sound like a hardware problem or software. Using the dos format command seems to work ok. Any help would be appreciated. Lee --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1906 08-15-88 00:05 (Read 117 times) from: DAVE PINGEL to: LEE BREGER (Rcvd) subject: R: PCTOOLS FORMAT Reply to #1903 Any time you have a problem with Central Point software it is a good idea to call their help line. If they are aware of any problems they will tell you and ship you an update with the problem corrected. Dave >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1903 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1931 08-17-88 06:54 (Read 120 times) from: LEE BREGER to: DAVE PINGEL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PCTOOLS FORMAT Reply to #1906 Thanks for the information Dave. I haven't heard of any problems by other people, but it has consistently not been able to format and/or read my 3 1/2 hd drive. It doesn't happen every time, but about ever third time. Is their help line number the same as the one on back of their doc 503-244-5782? I will give them a call. Thanks again, Lee >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1903 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1935 08-17-88 09:36 (Read 116 times) from: DAVE PINGEL to: LEE BREGER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PCTOOLS FORMAT Reply to #1931 That number agrees with the number I have. Good luck with your problem. The consultants at Central Point are usually VERY helpful. Dave >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1903 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1940 08-17-88 23:46 (Read 117 times) from: LEE BREGER to: DAVE PINGEL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PCTOOLS FORMAT Reply to #1935 Thanks again Dave, I'll give them a call tomorrow. I'll drop you a message with what I find out. Lee >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1903 reply #4 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1904 08-14-88 19:44 (Read 115 times) from: CHARLES MCDOUGAL to: ALL subject: 1.2 FORMAT I hope someone can help me with this problem. I have an AT/286 with a WD 10 03-WA2 controller. I had a Miniscribe 6053, a 1.2mb floppy (a:) and a 360kb floppy (b:). The drive was formatted with OnTrack software as 2 22mb drive s, c: and d:. All worked well. I recently added another drive, a 251-1, formatted as 2 22mb drives, e: and f:. I also upgraded to Phoenix AT BIOS 3.07, up from 2.01. Everything see med to work ok also, until today. I tried to format some disks in the 1.2mb drive and could not. I get the message "Invalid Media or Bad track 0 - Dis k unusable". After that I cannot format the disk at all, any way nor read i t if it was good. I can format 360kb disks using the /4 parameter on the 1. 2 drive. This has me puzzled! Could it be something wrong with the Bios? Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks! =CM= --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1905 08-14-88 23:40 (Read 114 times) from: KEITH BECKMANN to: CHARLES MCDOUGAL (Rcvd) subject: R: 1.2 FORMAT Reply to #1904 Try this once. Try to format the disk and when it comes up with the error message it will ask you if you want to format again, before the drive ready light goes off, type in "Y" and enter to get right back into the format. I have had the exact same problem ever since I got my AT, and have narrowed it down to a timing problem, I think from my hard disk controller. I tried a different motherboard, floppy controller, floppies, power supply, and no difference. It seems like something doesn't wait long enough when it tries to format. The error message pops up right away when I start the format, and in other machines that I have looked at it actually hesitates when trying to fromat track zero. Hope this helps. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1904 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1908 08-15-88 08:25 (Read 113 times) from: DON ELLIOTT to: ALL subject: SEAGATE 251-1 I have seen ads that allege to supply a Seagate 251-1 drive into an XT. Does anyone out there have experience with that configuration? Thanks in advance. Don Elliott --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1913 08-15-88 22:35 (Read 114 times) from: NICK KEES to: DON ELLIOTT (Rcvd) subject: R: SEAGATE 251-1 Reply to #1908 There is no reason that a Seagate ST251-1 shouldn't work in an XT. The ST251 is an MFM drive and, with partitioning software should yield 40+ megs with any normal controller that would be found in an XT. Nick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1908 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1917 08-16-88 08:13 (Read 111 times) from: DON ELLIOTT to: NICK KEES (Rcvd) subject: R: R: SEAGATE 251-1 Reply to #1913 thanks. the slightly higher speed might help out in some applications and the greater capacity looks attractive. next question: can i keep my hard card in the system with the new disk and controller??? it is alleged around here that the bus arbitrates down the rows, so that one can use two controllers. That would be neat! regards. don elliott >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1908 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1928 08-16-88 23:00 (Read 121 times) from: NICK KEES to: DON ELLIOTT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: SEAGATE 251-1 Reply to #1917 I have no idea whether "the bus arbitrates down the rows" or not, but I do know that almost any controller you put in your machine is going to want to use the same interrupts as every other controller, and so dual controllers won't work. Couldn't the hard card controller be used, or is it missing a second place to connect a data (20 pin) cable or is it an RLL controller? You will really want to use the same controller for both drives unless the hard card won't allow that. Nick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1908 reply #3 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1909 08-15-88 20:18 (Read 112 times) from: DAVE CLAY to: CHARLES MCDOUGAL (Rcvd) subject: 1.2 FORMAT Charles Just a wild guess, but try this one. First go to C: Do not try to format A: while it is the default drive. Then give: FORMAT A: That may be helpfull, maybe not. It is the best I can think of at the moment. Good Luck Dave Clay . --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1910 08-15-88 20:55 (Read 111 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: ALL subject: ST238 IN AT Does anyone know what the drive type is for a ST238 in an AT when it formats to 940 cylinders/ 16 sectros? Or do you just use 615x26, which is what I'm told it really is? -[Steve]- --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1914 08-15-88 22:40 (Read 115 times) from: NICK KEES to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: ST238 IN AT Reply to #1910 Steve, The ST238 is an RLL drive, and formats to 30 megs only with an RLL controller. IF you have an RLL controller, you will get 25 sectors per track and 30 megs. Otherwise you will get 17 sectors per track and 20 megs. But in either case, you have a drive that has 4 heads and 615 cylinders. No amount of fooling with the drive type will make a difference as to the number of heads or cylinders. Nick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1910 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1918 08-16-88 08:25 (Read 116 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: NICK KEES (Rcvd) subject: R: R: ST238 IN AT Reply to #1914 Nick, That is what I thought till I installed it in an XT. I am using an RLL controller (WD-1002-27X). Imagine my surprise when I did a format and the cylinder numbers kept going right past 615, all the way out to 940! The BIOS does some fancy conversion of the cylinder numbers so it will work with software (caches, etc.) that won't recognise 26 sectors. The number of tracks/sectors really is 615/26 but they are renumbered to appear to be 940/17. Simple, huh? My problem is what do I tell setup, and what if the table doesn't include an entry for 940/17? BTW, I have stayed with this BIOS because the last RLL controller I had (WD) that formatted 615/26 ate two drives in four days. This setup has lasted over a year with no problems at all. Maybe I'm just superstitous, but I also don't want to tempt fate! -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1910 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1923 08-16-88 18:07 (Read 116 times) from: JOHN REDFORD to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: ST238 IN AT Reply to #1910 That 940 cyl/16 sector Jazz sounds like one of the WD rll controllers which usually does some translation (I really don't know why). The st238 is a type 2 (615 cyl, 4 heads).. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1910 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1930 08-16-88 23:19 (Read 119 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: JOHN REDFORD (Rcvd) subject: R: R: ST238 IN AT Reply to #1923 John, It is just that. I was told (and it seems logical) that the translation is done to allow the RLL drives with disk caches and other software (lotus, for one) which had trouble with 26 sectors. Now, don't everyone jump on me at once if Lotus works with 26 sector drives. This is what I was told, not what I claim! -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1910 reply #4 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1912 08-15-88 22:22 (Read 116 times) from: BILL TINSLEY to: ALL subject: 1.44 MEG DRIVES Here is another "head scratcher". Any suggestions would be appreciated: [DI have installed a Toshiba ND-356 drive in my older Compaq portable. I'm trying to use the Disk Plus controller, a daughterboard for the Microsoft Mach 20. I'm using IBM DOS 3.3. Everything works fine with 720 K drives, but I'm having very little luck with 1.44 Meg disks. I'm using the M20DRV.SYS driver and the recommended jumper settings. It will read fairly well, but has problems with writing and formatting. About half of the time I get the "bad track 0" message. The rest of the time I get about 400K of bad sectors! Now for the fun part. I pulled everything out of the COMPAQ and installed it in by boss's XT. Everything worked perfectly!! I even booted both systems from the same floppy, so there can be no difference in DOS versions, drivers, or the CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT files. [DThe COMPAQ is fairly old, but has been upgraded to the newest (rev. J) ROM. Any ideas? --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1916 08-15-88 23:19 (Read 117 times) from: MARK TELLIER to: BILL TINSLEY (Rcvd) subject: R: 1.44 MEG DRIVES Reply to #1912 Bill, See the 1.44 meg thread in the General Conf. I'm having similar problems with the same drive you have in my Compaq 286. I thing latest ROM's are upto rev P.1. Do you know for sure if Rev J supports 3.5" (or is that the reason for the device driver)? I'll let you know how I make out. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1912 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1927 08-16-88 20:48 (Read 123 times) from: BILL TINSLEY to: MARK TELLIER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1.44 MEG DRIVES Reply to #1916 Actually, the Disk Plus controller has its own ROM. It installs itself at boot time in the same way as hard disk controllers do in an XT class machine. Microsoft was concerned about communications between the disk controller ROM and the main system ROM. The device driver is used only for formatting. (I have to remember to FORMAT D: even though I can call it drive B: for everything else). The ROM version letters for the portable (8088 based) and for the portable 286 don"t correspond to each other as far as I know. None of the versions for the original portable are supposed to handle 3 1/2 inch drives without the special controller. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1912 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1925 08-16-88 20:03 (Read 116 times) from: PATRICK KELLER to: ALL subject: COMPUTERS FOR DISABLED Do any firms or agencies donate old/dated hardware for use by disabled or handicapped persons? I have a friend who is a quadraplegic, and who has been trained as a draftsman, but now is told he needs to learn CAD to be employable or useful as an outside contractor. He can't afford a computer, so I was wondering if used equipment is ever made available to such persons. This is no put-on, and certainly not humorous to the individual involved. Sincere respnses are appreciated. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1933 08-17-88 07:02 (Read 118 times) from: BOB BLAIR to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: BOARD PROTECTION What is the best way to protect boards that aren't currently being used in a system. I have several around, some of which have the "plastic" sleeves and others with nothing (that is correctable with some sound advice). Pointers please. Bob --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1938 08-17-88 17:23 (Read 123 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: BOB BLAIR (Rcvd) subject: R: BOARD PROTECTION Reply to #1933 That's a very good question, since many failed boards can be traced to mishandling. There are 3 or 4 types of plastics that one might be tempted to wrap his boards and components in to protect them from dust and static. Some are good, some are guaranteed to KILL your parts, especially CMOS parts. BLACK POLY: An opaque black polyethelyne (or polypropoline? I forget) substance with a kind of almost rubbery feel to it. This is probably the best stuff. I think 3M invented it. PICK POLY: Translucent pink tinted stuff. Also good, and you can see the product. This is the stiff that's softer and not very shiny. Sorry, line 12 should read PINK POLY... GRAY 3M: Smoke/grey translucent plastic. This stuff will have a shine on its surface and not be as soft. I dunno how this material compares to the black stuff, but it's probably almost as good. None of use work in labs or other strange environments where stray high voltages, static, rf, or other stuff is likely to be a problem, so I can't see where it matters much. CLEAR CELOPHANE or polystyrene. BAD, BAD, BAD. This stuff generates zillions of electron volts worth of static charge when you stare at it hard. Wrap a board in this, even if it's bipolar (not MOS) and it'l probably fail mysteriosly. WHITE POLYSTYRENE WRAP: Have you seen this white or tinted 1/4" thick foam wrap? I see it as an inner wrap on monitors and stuff. VERY BAD. Generates static. PINK PEANUTS: Shipping peanuts made from pink poly. Much prefferable to white peanuts, but still, always use an anti-static bag around the board or parts, carefully taped shut. WHITE PEANUTS: Real bad. You could use them if the part was carefully sealed in a black poly bag, but we don't. We save our pink poly peanuts for such things. Can't hurt to be carefull... BLACK FOAM: For small parts with pins, like MEMORY CHIPS and other chips. If you take a part out of a socket, stick in it some black foam. You can get it at Radio Shack if desparate. Never let a chip sit anywhere besides its socket or in black foam. Anti-static wraps or bags really address 2 issues: 1. generating static 2. dissipating static. If the stuff you wrap the board in makes static, issue number 2 never even comes up. If the wrap doesn't make static, but doesn't have the right surface conductivity (etc) to dissipate safely static that already exists, it isn't suitable either. HANDLING PRECAUTIONS: Contrary to popular belief, servicing a PC is best done with the unit PLUGGED IN. This is assuming you know what you are doing. Look real close at the plug on your PC. See that third prong in the middle? The round one? That's called a GROUND. You didn't cheat and use an adapter, so you could plug into a 2-wire outlet, now did you? Because if you did, you threw away some of the best static protection you could have. That's where the static charge goes, when it gets transferred to the PC from your body after you walk accross the carpet. Thats also where surges and spikes get shunted to when (not "if"!) Wisconsin Electric sends all kinds of garbage down your power line. So ground your equipment! Even walking across a tile floor can build up a static charge on your body, and even a small charge can do damage under the right condidtions. One should always touch something large and metal on the computer, like the case, before hitting the switch or the keyboard. Consider: The keyboard sends serial data and clocks back and forth to/from the PC. These are usually TTL signals, and they vary from near zero volts to 5 volts. You walk to the PC and try to touch a key. A small spark jumps from your finger to a trace between two keys, and frys the encoder chip. Perhaps a spark jumps from that trace to one connected to the computer. In a fraction of a second, one smoked keyboard and maybe a new motherboard, or atleast some new chips. If you service computers, invest in an anti-static mat, and ground in per instructions. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1933 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1942 08-18-88 07:05 (Read 114 times) from: BOB BLAIR to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: BOARD PROTECTION Reply to #1938 Now that's what I call a reply. I'll read thru this as time is available and will probably understand "static" and protection. Sounds as tho you have some experience with this Tom. Thanks, Bob >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1933 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1947 08-18-88 14:43 (Read 112 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: BOB BLAIR (Rcvd) subject: R: R: BOARD PROTECTION Reply to #1942 Experience? Yes, I've killed a few boards. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1933 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1949 08-18-88 21:12 (Read 115 times) from: RUSS TERRY to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: BOARD PROTECTION Reply to #1947 How would you like to play with mini/mainframe boards. Touchy stuff. Toast one of those babes and it could cost a few duckies heh? I fried (I think) one on a Honeywell mini a few years back when I started servicing computers. 7K ! and that was a cheap one. That was the LAST one too. 3-M grounding kits were ordered and on the way within usec's. I couldn't believe they didn't have any already (I was new and they TOLD us in school never, ever work on a machine without one), but when the senior techs. were not using them I figured what the hey? Personally, when I take my PC under the knife, I don't use one, just ground myself (with the cord plugged) before touching anything. Always have people asking me why I had a hand in one pocket when probing or the like. Learned that one by trial and error too. Got nailed by a 500vdc transformer tap on a microwave radio about 6-7 years ago. P.S. An untreated concrete floor can also build up a substantial charge. Weather (humidity levels, temp.) is also a contributing factor in static buildup. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1933 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1954 08-19-88 06:52 (Read 116 times) from: BOB BLAIR to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: BOARD PROTECTION Reply to #1947 Any sources for the products you mentioned in the first reply? I've never noticed any offered in the ads I see. Perhaps 'cause I haven't had this thought in my head, but Necessity is calling now. Thanks. Bob >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1933 reply #5 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1959 08-19-88 16:47 (Read 122 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: BOB BLAIR (Rcvd) subject: R: R: BOARD PROTECTION Reply to #1954 1. Jensen Tools 2. JDR Microdevices 3. Digi-key 4. Radio Shack 5. Hamfest/Swapfest For 1-4 see the back pages of BYTE or PC. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1933 reply #6 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1965 08-19-88 22:32 (Read 130 times) from: RUSS TERRY to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: BOARD PROTECTION Reply to #1959 Try also 3-M. They have more in their catalog than you will find in Jensen; about the same prices. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1933 reply #7 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1972 08-22-88 07:03 (Read 120 times) from: BOB BLAIR to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: BOARD PROTECTION Reply to #1959 Thanks, Tom. I get fliers from at least 3 of them. Appreciate all the comments. Bob >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1933 reply #8 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1975 08-22-88 12:35 (Read 120 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: BOB BLAIR (Rcvd) subject: R: R: BOARD PROTECTION Reply to #1972 On static protection: I'm preparing a massive missive (chuckle) on the topic, to be uploaded to the Mahoney collection early this week. Look for STATIC.ARC or something similar. I have more hard facts and numbers in the new piece, and plan to incorporate the one I sent to you. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1933 reply #9 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1976 08-22-88 13:30 (Read 120 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: BOB BLAIR (Rcvd) subject: R: BOARD PROTECTION Reply to #1933 I am uploading today a file called STATIC.ARC which will contain a 350 line tutorial on protection against static discharge damage to parts. One thing I failed to mention is that static damage can be hidden. The discharge may weaken a semiconductor junction so that the part fails after being in operation for several minutes/days/weeks/months... Have fun, and as always, comments invited. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1933 reply #10 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1988 08-23-88 07:21 (Read 120 times) from: BOB BLAIR to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: BOARD PROTECTION Reply to #1976 Tom, thanks. Have downloaded STATIC.ARC. Maybe for once I can get a handle on a potential problem before it bites me. Maybe..... Bob >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1933 reply #11 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2004 08-24-88 15:01 (Read 124 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: BOB BLAIR (Rcvd) subject: R: R: BOARD PROTECTION Reply to #1988 Let me know what you think of STATIC.ARC. I just talked to a friend of mine that used to work for RCA service. He was there about 10 years, I guess. He said they had one family of boards that had a 40% out-of-box failure rate. They went nuts with antistatic packaging, floor mats, bench mats, wrist straps, the whole 9 yards. The dead board rate dropped to next to nothing. It's policy now, at RCA. One other thing. My friend is of the opinion that the particular brand of pink poly bag they tried wasn't nearly as good as the 3M smoke-gray type. I don't have enough data to confirm or deny. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1933 reply #12 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2007 08-24-88 20:04 (Read 128 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: BOARD PROTECTION Reply to #2004 Tom, Very good writeup on static. You might want to add that polyester and nylon clothing are bad also. Any suggestions for lightning protection. Some recent thunderstorms have left my electronics in shambles. I've got surge proctectors on just about everything but it didn't seem to help. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1933 reply #13 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2015 08-25-88 06:56 (Read 123 times) from: BOB BLAIR to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: BOARD PROTECTION Reply to #2004 I thought you had done a masterful job. I very much appreiciate the tutorial nature of the material. Have already passed a few copies around here. The only type I have is the smoke-gray type. It came on a couple of my boards. Thanks much. Bob >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1933 reply #14 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2027 08-26-88 16:55 (Read 123 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: BOARD PROTECTION Reply to #2007 Protecting against lightning and surge damage is a tricky biz. You must protect EVERY port of entry. If you have lots of gadget on yer computer, like printers, plotters, monitors, standalone modems, etc, everything that gets plugged into the wall needs a surge protector. EVERYTHING. If you have any kind of modem, you should use a surge suppresor on the telephone lines. These are available various places, and they just plug in. Or you can open up the wall box your telephone jack is in and stick MOVs from each wire to ground, and also tip to ring (normally red to green). We have a nasty problem with our big computer. It has 14 serial ports and terminals connected to them. They are scattered around the building. When a terminal gets shut off, every once and a while, the computer will crash. If a spike big enough to screw up the terminal happens, the computer may also crash. None of these events, tho they happen with regularity, has permanently damaged the hard ware, but I think it's only a matter of time. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1933 reply #15 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2028 08-26-88 19:52 (Read 122 times) from: BRIAN KIEHNAU to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: BOARD PROTECTION Reply to #2007 cc: TOM PETERS Glen Some time ago Tom and I had quite discussion on surge supp. devices and there usefullness. I differ in my opinion from Tom in that I think that surge supp. are waste of money and as you noted they can not protect from lighting and other high power type faults. I do not have any surge supp. on any of my equipment because for the cost of a surge supp. I can buy a new power supply for my PC and in the event of a lighting strike I will not have to replace both the PS and the surge supp. Protection from lighting is hard to do because of the large amount of voltage and current that can ocurr. The only thing that you can do is install air gap arresters and industrial sized MOV (the ones the size of your fist) on the main feed lines where they come into your home. You could also install a relay to disconnect the power from your conputer equipment when not in use and only use your equipment when there are no storms in the area. Brian >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1933 reply #16 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2046 08-28-88 20:58 (Read 118 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: BOARD PROTECTION Reply to #2027 Tom, Thanks for the info on lightning protection. Just about everything is protected by a surge suppersor except the phone line. I think thats how my modem got zapped. I'll add a protector there and see what happens. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1933 reply #17 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2049 08-28-88 22:07 (Read 118 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: BRIAN KIEHNAU (Rcvd) subject: R: R: BOARD PROTECTION Reply to #2028 Brian, My lightning problems do not seem to be from direct hits but from induction in the underground wiring. All the recent problems didn't seem to involve the power lines which all have surge suppressors. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1933 reply #18 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2056 08-29-88 14:13 (Read 121 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: BRIAN KIEHNAU (Rcvd) subject: R: R: BOARD PROTECTION Reply to #2028 We use surge suppressors with EMI/RFI filtering, and I believe that we would have a higher incidence of scrambled hard disks and wierd crashes if we didn't use them. I know for a fact that our power here is really dirty. The wiring in the building itself is atrocious and there must be some big equipment in the neighborhood besides. Our big S-100 based computer system used to crash 2-4 times every day until we bought a Best Electric Micro-ferrups u.p.s., a 1/2 kva unit. The unit has a ferro-resonant transformer, so even if the inverter never kicks in, we still get clean, filtered, transient and surge free, power. No more crashes. And Wis Electric still claims it isn't their fault. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1933 reply #19 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2058 08-29-88 14:17 (Read 121 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: BOARD PROTECTION Reply to #2046 >...modem... I'll add a protector there and see what happens... Hopefully NOTHING will happen! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1933 reply #20 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2068 08-29-88 20:20 (Read 121 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: BOARD PROTECTION Reply to #2046 A modem surge protector is a good idea and a cheap item. I once pulled the phone line from the wall about 20 feet from the modem itself, was walking back to the modem (carpeted), and zap. 80$ later i got the modem back. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1933 reply #21 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2074 08-29-88 23:42 (Read 121 times) from: RUSS TERRY to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: BOARD PROTECTION Reply to #2046 Sorry to jump in here, but I thought I would relate a little story to you. When I was working in KS we had IBM Remote controller tubes all over the place (attached to a sys 36). Even after users would unplug the power cord, the frequent lightning storms in the area would take out approx. 8-10 modem boards a month. These were internal 4800 bps modems that ran about $1,200. IBM would not cover them under the maint. contract when they were damaged by lightning and we couldn't get users to unplug the phone cord at night or during thunderstorms. The investment of lightning protection on the phone line was a definate payoff. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1933 reply #22 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2079 08-30-88 07:18 (Read 126 times) from: BRIAN KIEHNAU to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: BOARD PROTECTION Reply to #2056 Tom I like fero-resonant type txfmrs. and have recomended them to solve powerline noise/sag/etc. in the past with very good results. Any installation that has has to share lines with motors and other high current loads should have one. Brian >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1933 reply #23 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1941 08-18-88 01:07 (Read 115 times) from: KEITH ROGERS to: ALL subject: SEAGATE ST4144R I note in a Seagate product information brochure that the ST4096 and the ST4144R are much alike. Both have the same number of tracks, cylinders, heads, discs, flux density, and track density. The 4096 is an MFM unit and the 4144 is a RLL(2,7) drive. I wonder if the only difference between the two is that the 4144 has plated discs, allowing the RLL to work better? Does anybody really know for sure is these two units are like that? If so, it may be better to get the 4144 (assuming price is close enough) and so eliminate any potential problems with recording method, i.e., RLL on the 4096. The 4144 may work very well with ARLL, as in the Perstor controller. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1943 08-18-88 08:49 (Read 112 times) from: DUANE KONKEL to: KEITH ROGERS (Rcvd) subject: SEAGATE 4144R Keith, Seagate no longer uses plated media, although the media is still certified as a higher quality than standard MFM media. That is the first difference, but not the only one. The other exists in the circuitry. The read/write circuitry has a smaller envelope of time in which to read or write the data. The circuits play an important part in an RLL certified drive. Any further questions, feel free to call. Duane Konkel DAK TEKnologies 549-1220 --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1952 08-19-88 01:55 (Read 116 times) from: KEITH ROGERS to: DUANE KONKEL subject: R: SEAGATE 4144R Reply to #1943 I'd call, need an area code. Do you know about a price difference level? I know that the 4096 is availablele many places for $550 or less. I did call Hard Drives Internationanal but they do not carry the ST4144R!!! so couldn't quote a price.ce. Regards, Keith Rogers >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1943 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1945 08-18-88 10:42 (Read 114 times) from: ED ERDMAN to: ALL subject: IBM PRINTER Does anyone know if there is any way to interface an IBM 5218-A02 printer to a PC? It was originally attached to a an IBM Displaywriter. Thanx Ed Erdman --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1950 08-18-88 21:16 (Read 119 times) from: RUSS TERRY to: ED ERDMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: IBM PRINTER Reply to #1945 Ed, give me call at work Fri afternoon or next week sometime if you don't get another answer. Doesn't sound easy, but maybe? 784-9099 >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1945 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1955 08-19-88 08:05 (Read 121 times) from: STEVEN KEY to: ED ERDMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: IBM PRINTER Reply to #1945 ED, I am not sure that this is the same model number as the IBM printer I once tried to make work with a PC or not. The one I saw was moved from a Displaywriter to a PC running DisplayWrite. There are at least two interesting problems is you have the same kind of printer. 1). The printer uses some kind of handshaking protocol from the computer - a software protocol. 2) The printer is an EBCIDC printer, not ASCII like the PC world. IBM had supplied some kind of device driver or TSR to interface with DisplayWrite, but it didn't seem to work with anything else. Then again, maybe you have an entirely different kind of printer. Sorry I can't remember the model number of the one I tangled with. It was very large and could do envelopes. Good luck. Steve >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1945 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1956 08-19-88 12:02 (Read 118 times) from: ED ERDMAN to: STEVEN KEY (Rcvd) subject: R: R: IBM PRINTER Reply to #1955 Thanks Steve Ed Erdman >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1945 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1964 08-19-88 21:37 (Read 129 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: ED ERDMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: IBM PRINTER Reply to #1956 Gary Bourbonais sez "Hello" to a former Century alumnus. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1945 reply #4 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1953 08-19-88 06:34 (Read 119 times) from: ALLAN BILDER to: ALL subject: ZENITH MONITOR I have just acquired a Zenith 1490 flat screen monitor. Along with it came software to modify Microsoft Windows to take advantage of VGA capability. The only problem is that the software applies only to Windows 1.04 and I have 2.03. By fiddling with the Zenith software I've been able to achieve 480 line resolution with Windows 2.03, but since Zenith did not supply a font driver compatible with 2.03, no characters on the screen are legible. I am a rank neophyte when it comes to this sort of thing and would appreciate any suggestions as to how to take advantage of the Zenith monitor with Windows 2.03. Thanks. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1962 08-19-88 20:24 (Read 131 times) from: WILLIAM BIRD to: ALLAN BILDER (Rcvd) subject: R: ZENITH MONITOR Reply to #1953 What kind of VGA card did you get with the monitor. If you can't get the 2.03 driver from Zenith you may be able to get one from someone else, at least to 640x480 to should be pretty standard. The 1.04 driver that you have will probably work fine as long as you don't need to use it with Windows 386. Unfortunately the drivers also interpret the font files and those have changed between 1.04 and 2.03. If you can get 1.04 display font files (leave the printer fonts alone) you should be able to get your configuration to work. I may have a copy laying around if you are local to Milwakee. Let me know if you want me to look or if you need more information on how to get this to work. Have a good day...Bill >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1953 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1984 08-23-88 06:36 (Read 122 times) from: ALLAN BILDER to: WILLIAM BIRD (Rcvd) subject: R: R: ZENITH MONITOR Reply to #1962 The card is a Zenith 449. I have the 1.04 display font files and have tried them without success. Microsoft Tech Support tells me that the 1.04 display font files are not compatabile with 2.03. Since I left the original message, however, U've been told by our beloved MIS Department that there is a Model 80 on order for me, so the question might be moot. Thanks for the reply and the offer to help. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1953 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1967 08-20-88 11:17 (Read 125 times) from: PAUL SONYE to: ALL subject: APPLE MONITOR ON PC I am trying to use an Apple II color composite monitor on an XT clone with a CGA board. The board has RCA jacks for composite b/w & color but the monitor always shows b/w. Has anyone had this problem ? Would appreciate suggestions. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1969 08-21-88 17:05 (Read 115 times) from: JOE AGRO to: ALL subject: BAD KEYBOARD I have a XT clone that recently started giving the message "BAD KEYBOARD" on bootup.I know the keyboard is good so I assume it's on th motherboard.Does anyone know the chip that controls the keyboard input?Woul d changing it have any chance of correcting my problem? Thanks in advance for any suggestions you may have Joe --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1977 08-22-88 20:26 (Read 116 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: ALL subject: PORTABLE HD Can anyone suggest a good, cheap 20 or 30 meg shock mounted hard drive to use in a portable XT clone? Prefer 30 megs, but at this point who can be picky? -[Steve]- --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1989 08-23-88 07:39 (Read 120 times) from: AL HANSEN to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: PORTABLE HD Reply to #1977 Steve, I'm running a 32 meg Panasonic HD (3 1/2") in an IBM Portable. I do not have it "shock" mounted, other than the flimsy fiber bracket that IBM supplied. It is used in the field on occcasion, and I've never had any problems since it was installed last October. It is a half-height HD, and am also using an Omti short card controller with it. AL -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1977 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1991 08-23-88 19:47 (Read 117 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: AL HANSEN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PORTABLE HD Reply to #1989 Al, Thanks for the info. I was hoping to do a lot of 'in the field' with it, including trips on an plane with me. Haven't figured out how I can fit it under the seat in front of me yet! As checked baggage it wouldn't survive the first trip, I fear. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1977 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1999 08-24-88 07:15 (Read 119 times) from: AL HANSEN to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PORTABLE HD Reply to #1991 Steve, I've never dragged it with me on a plane! I don't think a regular luggable would fit under the seat. I have seen some of the new Compaq lunchboxes though. AL -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1977 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2012 08-25-88 01:07 (Read 124 times) from: JEFFREY HOWELL to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PORTABLE HD Reply to #1991 STEVE, . For what it's worth, Kaypro used NEC drives in their luggables until they stopped making them. (The luggables that is, not the NEC's). . JEFFREY >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1977 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2014 08-25-88 06:31 (Read 124 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: JEFFREY HOWELL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PORTABLE HD Reply to #2012 Jeffrey, Thanks. I have a 1.4M floppy in there now and it is probably all I really need, but one never has enough hardware so I thought I'd give it a shot. I remembered a lot of talk here a couple of years ago about shock mounted drives but couldn't remember who made them. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1977 reply #5 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2018 08-25-88 19:21 (Read 124 times) from: JEFFREY HOWELL to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PORTABLE HD Reply to #2014 STEVE, . The people at Kolod Research seem to think real highly of the Conners Peripherial hard drives for use in a portable - high "G" rating, and low current draw. . JEFFREY >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1977 reply #6 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2019 08-25-88 20:39 (Read 122 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: JEFFREY HOWELL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PORTABLE HD Reply to #2018 Jeffrey, Thanks for the tip. I'll look into that one as well. That is exactly what I need, hi G's. Like you would expect if a protable was thrown 10 feet to a baggage conveyor! Don't think much could survive, tho. Maybe a tip to the stewerdess would help them find a place in the forward storage compartment. Or maybe they could put me in there and the machine in the seat. Who knows? -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1977 reply #7 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2022 08-26-88 02:53 (Read 122 times) from: JEFFREY HOWELL to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PORTABLE HD Reply to #2019 STEVE, . I remember reading somewhere about a hard disk for portables that had a manual head locking feature (as I recall, you pulled out a lever and inserted a pin) perhaps someone else can recall where I read this? I think you'll find that a drive with properly parked heads can stand much more than the rest of the computer. . JEFFREY >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1977 reply #8 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2025 08-26-88 07:44 (Read 123 times) from: STEVEN KEY to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PORTABLE HD Reply to #2019 Steve, Your expectation that your portable would be thrown to the baggage reminded me of the day when I was having lunch at a high school buddies house - about 20 years ago when I was in high school. His father was the assistant post master in town. I said something about parcel post marked "fragile." My friends father, who was there for lunch too, said "Those we throw under-hand, the rest we throw over-hand." Steve >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1977 reply #9 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1982 08-22-88 23:57 (Read 116 times) from: PAT PFAFFL to: ALL subject: NEATSET I recently purchased a computer based on the Chips and Technologies Neatset chips. Very little information was supplied with the computer on setting the parameters for the chipset and there significance. Can anyone supply me with some information on the Chips and Technologies Neatset chips, and what the parameter settings really do? The trial and error method is maddening...sometimes settings make a difference, and sometimes not, depending on other settings... Spec sheets or whatever info is available would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for the help. ps-this is a 20Mhz 286 from Computrade (computer brand name Novas). --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1983 08-23-88 00:11 (Read 116 times) from: DOROTHY MILLER to: ALL subject: HACKINTOSH? Has anyone tried the Hackintosh hack from the August COMPUTER SHOPPER? Looks like an interesting concept - assembling a Mac with as many inexpensive PC componants as possible.... --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1992 08-23-88 20:59 (Read 118 times) from: JAY CHEROSKE to: ALL subject: THE NOISE KILLER ╔══════════════╦═════════╦══════════════════╦═════════╦═══════════════╗ ║ SIMPLE ║ ║ THE NOISE KILLER ║ ║ ONE-TIME ║ ║ INSTALLATION ║ ╚══════════════════╝ ║ ADJUSTMENT ║ ╠══════════════╝ ╔══════════════════╗ ╚═══════════════╣ ║ ║ GET RID OF PHONE ║ ║ ║ ╚══╗ LINE NOISE ╔══╝ ║ ╠════════════════════════╗ ╚══╗ NOW! ╔══╝ ╔═════════════════════════╣ ║ GET THE NOISE KILLER ║ ╚══════╝ ║ PLUGS DIRECTLY INTO ║ ║ WITH CORD FOR ONLY $20 ║ ╔════════════╗ ║ SECOND JACK OF MODEM ║ ║ ADD $2.00 FOR SHIPPING ║ ║ MONEY-BACK ║ ║ NO ASSEMBLY REQUIRED ║ ╠════════════════════════╝ ║ GUARANTEE! ║ ╚═════════════════════════╣ ║ ╔══════════════════╩════════════╩═══════════════════╗ ║ ║ ║ JUST TURN THE KNOB AND LINE NOISE IS GONE FOREVER ║ ║ ╠════════╩═══════════════════════════════════════════════════╩════════╣ ║ PLEASE SEND CHECK OR MONEY ORDER PAYABLE TO JAY CHEROSKE TO: ║ ║ P.O. BOX 3069, PALOS VERDES ESTATES, CA 90274 ║ ╚═════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╝ Compatibility Check: This is a simple test to see if the noise killer will work for you. 1. Plug a standard telephone into the second jack of your modem (usually labeled "PHONE"). 2. Using your modem, call a local BBS. 3. After you have connected, pick up the handset of the telephone and listen. If you hear a static type of sound and garbage characters appear on your screen YOU'VE PASSED THE TEST! That's all there is to it! If anyone has any questions, please don't hesitate to leave me a message or call me at 213 378-4316. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1993 08-23-88 21:00 (Read 115 times) from: DAVID LUBAR to: ALL subject: HARD DISK CONTOLLER CARD Help................. I am adding a 2nd 20 meg hard disk to a Sterling pc. This is an XT clone. I have the original disk assigned a drive C: and a vdisk on an expanded memory board assigned as drive D:. I am trying to set the new hard disk as drive D: the vdisk as drive E:. The hard disk contoller card has three jumpers and 8(?) dip switches. This card is marked DTC or DCT. The problem is that I have no manual for this card and the manufacturer of the Sterling computer is out of business. Does anyone out there either have a manual, know where I can get one, or know how to set these switches. I'm a real novice with this stuff but my friend who was trying to install the 2nd drive said unless we can figure the switches we'll need to but a new controller card. I hope some one out there knows, DML --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1994 08-23-88 23:10 (Read 116 times) from: MARK TIMPANY to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: FD DISABLE Good to see you at the meeting tonight, too. I would have left you the Inovation address earlier, but got carried away reading over the library list. The Innovation folks are at: Innovation Computer Company Innovation Building 1325-1327 Juniper Street Cleveland, WI 53015 414-693-3416 Jeff Schellhaas is the name I have written down ... I guess he's the one you said is no longer with Innovation. Saw another Innovation over the weekend. I was in Fond du Lac (French for Lake of Molten Cheese) at KFIZ-WFON. They are using the Innovation as the terminal for an IGM program automation system. I'm told they had a Leading Edge from the same dealer that did not work - - swapped for the Innovation and it went to work straight away. I will be curious to see what the Cleveland folks say about getting a high speed FD controller in their box. The documentation they provide is certainly minimal. I must say it feels good to be a member of the PC Users Group. Unhappily, the third Tuesday each month is also the regular meeting time of the Milwaukee chapter of the SBE (Society of Broadcast Engineers). So, I may be more regular on alternate meeting dates. Looking over the listing of past meeting presentations, it appears that I've missed a wealth of information. At least now, on the mailing list, I will know what I am missing. Cheers, Mark --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1995 08-23-88 23:18 (Read 116 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: MARK TIMPANY (Rcvd) subject: R: FD DISABLE Reply to #1994 I understand that MATC was selling a CAD setup about a year ago using the 1010XT and their MATCCAD. I probably won't have time to WP a letter to Innovation till the weekend, but I'll keep you up on what happens. Share water. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1994 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1996 08-23-88 23:56 (Read 115 times) from: MARK TELLIER to: MARK TIMPANY (Rcvd) subject: R: FD DISABLE Reply to #1994 Mark, Sorry that I can't remember your face from the meeting tonight. One quick note concerning your last message. Tuesday meeting of the Milwaukee PC User's Group are on the FOURTH Tuesday of the month. You could make SBE meetings and PCUG meetings if SBE meetings are the third Tuesdays of the month. - mwt - >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1994 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2000 08-24-88 08:23 (Read 124 times) from: MARK TIMPANY to: MARK TELLIER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: FD DISABLE Reply to #1996 Mark, Right you are ... except the September meeting date is shown in an older Blinkin Cursor as 20 September. Maybe that's a misprint or maybe that's some famous computer holiday I don't have in my datebook - - something like Norbert Weiner's birthday when adjusted to allow for a four day weekend? Funny, Joe Knapp, when he worked at what was then WZUU, always used to tell me that there was a conflict in meeting times. Thank you for resolving my conflict. Cheers, Mark >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1994 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2011 08-24-88 23:05 (Read 122 times) from: NICK KEES to: MARK TIMPANY (Rcvd) subject: R: FD DISABLE Reply to #1994 You were kidding about Fond du Lac meaning "Lake of Molten Cheese", right? You really know that it really means "Bottom of the Lake", right? Nick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1994 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2017 08-25-88 09:08 (Read 120 times) from: MARK TIMPANY to: NICK KEES (Rcvd) subject: R: R: FD DISABLE Reply to #2011 We have lots of interesting French-derived names. People in Wisconsin can live in "The Prairie of the Dog", or perhaps at "The Small Hill of Death". Maybe I should correct my spelling for the "Lake of Molten Cheese" .... Fondue Lac. (Yes, just kidding.) Mark >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1994 reply #5 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2021 08-25-88 23:28 (Read 122 times) from: NICK KEES to: MARK TIMPANY (Rcvd) subject: R: R: FD DISABLE Reply to #2017 Oh, I get it. Yes, I've gone water skiing on the Lake of the Small Hill of Death many times. It can be quite exciting. The Lake of Stinking Water is fun too. Nick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 1994 reply #6 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #1998 08-24-88 06:48 (Read 113 times) from: BOB BLAIR to: ALL subject: PS/2 INSTALL Had the pleasure of installing my first PS/2 , a model 60, yesterday. Talk about easy. Compared to my AT this was a breeze. At least IBM got one important thing right. Bob --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2001 08-24-88 09:19 (Read 126 times) from: BOB BLAIR to: ALL subject: VGA BLANKER BTW, anyone know of a good VGA screen blanker? Thanks. Bob --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2008 08-24-88 20:11 (Read 132 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: BOB BLAIR (Rcvd) subject: R: VGA BLANKER Reply to #2001 Bob, I use a device driver screen blanker called BURNDEV. It's been tested on VGA, EGA, CGA, monochrome with no problems. You do have to be careful when using it on a herc. card. I've just found out that it conflicts with windows when running Excel, but it can be disabled from the command line. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2001 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2016 08-25-88 07:01 (Read 126 times) from: BOB BLAIR to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: VGA BLANKER Reply to #2008 Thanks. Pulled BRNDEV23 and CRT_SAV4 from the MAHONEY after I left the message yesterday. It is heartening to here good things about software in-use. Don't use EXCEL or WINDOWS here, yet. Altho, I am very tempted to "borrow" a copy from Microsoft under their current offer. Bob >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2001 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2010 08-24-88 23:01 (Read 124 times) from: NICK KEES to: DAVID LUBAR (Rcvd) subject: R: HARD DISK CONTOLLER C Reply to #1993 Well, I don't have a manual for a DTC controller, but you may not need one or a new controller. What have you tried so far and what have been your results? Do you have the daisy chain type of 34 pin cable for connecting both drives to the controller? Do you have the two separate 20 pin cables connected to the controller and one to each disk, and polarities on both ends have been double checked? And then you low level formatted the new drive, and then FDISKed and FORMATted? Where was it that you ran into trouble? Nick --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2020 08-25-88 20:57 (Read 124 times) from: DAVE SIEBENALLER to: ALL subject: P1340 DIPS Hi all! I've gotten a hold of a Toshiba P1340 printer, but not a manual....if someone could enlighten me as to what the DIP settings do I would be very appreciative! Thanks in advance! Dave --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2023 08-26-88 04:01 (Read 122 times) from: JIM DUNNIGAN to: ALL subject: BAD MEMORY? Here's one for those more technically adept than I. Having gotten a few lockups on my true-blue AT, I ran a memory tester off a DOS floppy (RAMTESTA). Most of the time it would just freeze after 30-90 minutes (normally I've been getting a lockup every 20-30 hours). On two occasions the screen blinked as RAMTESTA went thru it's initial "searching for top of memory" and then the screen would freak out on the first test pass and report failure in memory location B000:0000. I'm using a Chauffer HT card (mono/CGA) on a mono monitor (same basic drill as the Compaq monitors). I wonder if the video card could be causing the lockups? I'm not expert enough on the inner workings of the system to confirm that diagnosis. Anyone got an idea of what might be going down inside the box? --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2024 08-26-88 07:31 (Read 120 times) from: BOB BLAIR to: JOE VINCENT (Rcvd) subject: PS/2 60 H.D. Joe, You seem to have better IBM connections and info than most of us. Do you have any knowledge of how to do a low-level format of a hard drive in a Model 60? I hear there is a way using the Reference disk's Testing procedure and a CTRL A. Have any insights or tech. notes about this? bblair --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2030 08-27-88 15:45 (Read 124 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: BOB BLAIR (Rcvd) subject: R: PS/2 60 H.D. Reply to #2024 Bob, I'm running a 50-Z at the office while I'm waiting for a model 80. We don't have any 60s, but I'll see what I can find out. Why do you need to low-level format the 60's HD? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2024 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2053 08-29-88 06:50 (Read 115 times) from: BOB BLAIR to: JOE VINCENT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PS/2 60 H.D. Reply to #2030 Joe, we got this in for our office early last week. Ran fine for a day or so then began giving access errors for the C:/D: drive ( a 40MB split 20-20 ). I did a DOS format with about 24hrs of success. Then the trouble returned. When I left the message I was hoping for a quick solution. Additional facts since then -- moved the hd controller card to another slot, still trouble. This THING won't hold configuration info about the TYPE of hd. Presently it is at a Computerland. bblair >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2024 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2067 08-29-88 19:21 (Read 119 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: BOB BLAIR (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PS/2 60 H.D. Reply to #2053 Bob, are you running DOS 3.3? If so, are you using DASDDRVR.SYS? If not, you should be. There were all sorts of strange disk-related problems with PS/2 50s and above, all (most?) of which IBM patched out of existence with the above-mentioned driver. You'll need a "DEVICE=[path]\DASDDRVR.SYS" in your CONFIG.SYS. I had a problem with my 50Z last week -- couldn't do a vanilla COPY from a 3.5" diskette to a hard drive (sector not found). Tried all sorts of things before taking the diskette to another 50Z and finding that there was absolutely nothing wrong with the diskette. Rebooted my 50Z and the problem was gone! A bit of research turned up the need to use the DASDDRVR.SYS driver. I'll bet Computerland has never heard of the driver or, if so, doesn't make the connection. Try it and see if your problem goes away. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2024 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2078 08-30-88 07:16 (Read 118 times) from: BOB BLAIR to: JOE VINCENT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PS/2 60 H.D. Reply to #2067 JOE, This does sound very familiar to the type of problem we have. If one assumes CL doesn't fix the problem or only thinks they have fixed it, I will give it a try. This is included with DOS 3.3? I'll look. The latest PC Tech. Journal mentions the Ctrl A. Apparently this is way to get into the Advanced Diagnostics from the Reference Diskette. It sure is a lot easier to work on a system when it is your own. Moving from my office in our plant to the administrative offices to work on a pc is a real nuisance. Guess next time I'll do a better job of reading the documentation. Thanks for the reply. I'll holler if the problem continues. bblair >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2024 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2080 08-30-88 08:09 (Read 126 times) from: AL HANSEN to: BOB BLAIR (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PS/2 60 H.D. Reply to #2078 Bob, I've got the DOS fix installed on all our PS/2's. It is an IBM authorized patch, and is avaiable on this board in the Mahoney collection. Scan for DOS, or DOS33FIX, or something like that! They also include a new FORMAT.COM file and a couple others. BTW, on our larger systems (40 meg +), I'm going to switch to DOS 4.0 to take advantage of the large partition, haven't had any major problems with it yet on an 80. AL -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2024 reply #5 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2093 08-31-88 06:51 (Read 122 times) from: BOB BLAIR to: AL HANSEN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PS/2 60 H.D. Reply to #2080 AL, Thanks for the reply. I've got DOS33FIX, but never had any use for it on this AT. We had been hoping that our corporation would upgrade to 4.0 before the PS/2 60 arrived. They move too slowly however. I have been trying to keep up with 4.0 thru the uploads .TXT files in the Mahoney and in the conferences. Sounds interesting. Sure hope to get this resolved quickly. Have to begin a new job next week or so (same location) which won't leave as much time for adjusting our users to new machines and fixing the usual problems. bblair >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2024 reply #6 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2096 08-31-88 07:22 (Read 128 times) from: AL HANSEN to: BOB BLAIR (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PS/2 60 H.D. Reply to #2093 Bob, If you tried the Ctrl-A format you'll note that is as slow as heck. An y PD low level program from this bbs should do the same job in about 95% less time. Also, as you've mentioned, the IBMCACHE program is also a joke. I've got a Compaq 386s at home with a decent caching utility that does the job. I guess some of these items are part of the downfall of the beloved micro-channel, that and the fact that IBM has yet to come up with solid reasons for a new architecture. Well anyway, keep that 60 humming. AL -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2024 reply #7 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2033 08-27-88 19:55 (Read 124 times) from: PATRICK KELLER to: ALL subject: HARD DISK CONTROLLERS Can you add a second controller for a second hard drive on an XT? I've just procured a second drive with controller, but can't get either drive to behave properly with the second controller installed. Any advice appreciated at this point. Patrick Keller --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2035 08-27-88 22:05 (Read 121 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: PATRICK KELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: HARD DISK CONTROLLERS Reply to #2033 Depending on what controllers they are, there may be jumpers that will configure either as controller 1 or 2. Check with the vendor or manufacturer for configuration. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2033 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2036 08-27-88 22:38 (Read 123 times) from: PATRICK KELLER to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DISK CONTROLL Reply to #2035 The controllers are both Western Digital 27X models. If anyone knows how to configure them as drive 1 or 2, that would be helpful. I don't have any documentation on them. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2033 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2038 08-27-88 23:25 (Read 124 times) from: JEFFREY HOWELL to: PATRICK KELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DISK CONTROLL Reply to #2036 PATRICK, . You should be able to run both drives with only one of the controller cards, and have lots fewer problems than configuring them to run with seperate controllers. If you insist on running with 2 seperate controllers, you will have to assign a different interrupt to each controller. I'm not sure what jumper controlls the interrupt address on your controller, but, you might want to give WD a call at 714/863-0102 or 714/474-2033. They should be able to help you out. Good Luck! . JEFFREY >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2033 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2039 08-27-88 23:35 (Read 123 times) from: NICK KEES to: PATRICK KELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: HARD DISK CONTROLLERS Reply to #2033 Jeffrey's answer was very good and I can't emphasize it enough. Most Western Digital controllers can run two hard disks and this is definitely the way to go. You need a daisy chain 34 pin cable (just like the cable on your floppy disk drive(s)) and two 20 pin data cables. The board will have two places to plug in the 20 pin cables. Most of those controller boards have never even been tested at different interrupts than the ones they were shipped set up for. Nick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2033 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2041 08-28-88 09:32 (Read 118 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: PATRICK KELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DISK CONTROLL Reply to #2036 Patrick, I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to do. Unless you are trying to run 3 hard drives in one machine (it can be done but it ain't easy) I see no reason to use two 27X controllers at the same time. I have the 27X docs from WD so I could maybe help you if I knew what you wanted to do. But if all you want is to hook up two hard drives in your machine, you have one too many controllers. The 27X can control two drives as it is, so the other one is not needed. I'm running one that way right now so I know it works. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2033 reply #5 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2047 08-28-88 21:45 (Read 115 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: PATRICK KELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DISK CONTROLL Reply to #2036 My WD 27X arrived with two jumpers installed together on four pins below where the drive cables connect. A friend told me they were for when more than one controller is used but I don't know this for sure. A SHOT IN THE DARK would be to remove one from one board and the other from the other and if that didn't work, try the other combination; THIS COULD BE DONE ONLY IF YOU HAVE EXHAUSTED ALL OTHER POSSIBILITIES FOR CONFIRMING THEIR FUNCTION. If anyone else on this conference can jump in here it would be appreciated. BTW, those were the only jumpers on the controller. Good luck and may you never thirst. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2033 reply #6 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2059 08-29-88 14:21 (Read 120 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: PATRICK KELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: HARD DISK CONTROLLERS Reply to #2033 Somebody probably already said this, but there is a text file on the board someplace called 4DRIVES.ARC or similar, that describes how to adjust the address of a Western Digital controller, to allow up to 2 controllers and up to 4 hard drives in a pc/xt/etc. I may do it, since 20/30 mb drives are cheap. And if one drive croaks, I only loose 1/4 or 1/3 of my data, not ALL of it. I think that multiple drives may also result in better performance that large partitions on the same drive. What does the rest of the conference think? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2033 reply #7 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2060 08-29-88 14:26 (Read 120 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: PATRICK KELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: HARD DISK CONTROLLERS Reply to #2033 Whoa, did I misunderstand your question? Don't bother with a second controller if all you want is 2 drives. You may need a driver or a version of DOS 3.21 or newer, but physically (electronically) the best path is to hang both drives on 1 controller. Some driver software or DOS versions may have trouble with the missing drive (D:) if you put 2 controllers in. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2033 reply #8 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2129 09-05-88 13:36 (Read 106 times) from: CRAIG BAKER to: JEFFREY HOWELL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DISK CONTROLL Reply to #2038 There are only a couple of different jumpers on the 27x. Two of them (side by side as I remember) allow you to logically treat the drive as 17 sector per track, more than normal number of cylinders, or as 27 sector per track, same # cyls. There are no (to my knowledge) jumpers to control controller interrupt or bios addressing. You have to alter BOTH of these to allow two controllers to coexist. (The OMTI 5510 has a bios alteration jumper, but you have to get a different bios from the manufacturer!). Anyway, depending on the prom version, your 27x may or may not be configurable to different drive types. If its not, get the appropriate bios version. Most of the ones I've seen are 'hardwired' to work with 20mb drives. Good luck, and I may be able to help more if you contact me. But give up on multiple controllers in the system. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2033 reply #9 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2134 09-05-88 14:16 (Read 105 times) from: CRAIG BAKER to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DISK CONTROLL Reply to #2133 I found the OEM book as well. Yes, you can use 2 27x controllers.... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2033 reply #10 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2034 08-27-88 20:06 (Read 122 times) from: DAVE CLAY to: ALL subject: FASTER ROM Hi to all, I am looking for advice on a stunt I pulled. My Dell 286-8 ( 8 MHz ) has a history of occasional hangups. What I found was a tendency to get confused when the print spooler was beating away on the printer and I was typing ahead into the typeahead buffer. I guessed that the ROM-BIOS was having some kind of timing problem. Investigation found 200ns chips which sounded a little slow. Memory which can keep up with 8 mHz should require 120 ns chips by my calculation, shouldn't it? So................ I tried a stunt. I coppied my ROM on to 150 ns chips. All seems ok. Some stuff feels a little faster. Some of the sounds are a little higher in pitch (because Dell uses CX decrement loops to time sounds). My question is................. Am I asking for any troubles? What can go wrong with faster ROM chips? What kind of tests should I run to verify the safety of this stunt? Any hot tips or suggestions are most welcome. Dave Clay . --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2040 08-28-88 00:16 (Read 122 times) from: MARK TELLIER to: DAVE CLAY (Rcvd) subject: R: FASTER ROM Reply to #2034 Dave, Unless Dell is taking some very unusual steps, the access time of your ROM chip does not determine the speed at which the code executes. It's determined by the crystal frequency and the number of wait states. The only way you could get in improvement in speed is for the number of wait states to be decreased. This would require some circuitry in the machine to "sense" a faster ROM chip (complicated and not likely). The timing problem you mention could only be a software problem. The hardware timing is set at design and you have a single tasking machine, the software can't be generating any hardware timing conflicts. Hope this explains your situation a little. - mwt - >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2034 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2045 08-28-88 20:48 (Read 115 times) from: DAVE CLAY to: MARK TELLIER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: FASTER ROM Reply to #2040 Mark, Thanks for your knowledgable and quick answer. That helps a lot. I am just beginning to understand these beasts. Any help is gratefully appreciated. Thanks Again, Dave Clay . >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2034 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2061 08-29-88 14:30 (Read 118 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: DAVE CLAY (Rcvd) subject: R: FASTER ROM Reply to #2034 I think the fact that some things sound and feel faster is youthful optimism. I doubt that faster roms would speed anything up at all, because the timing for accessing roms is fixed in copper and silicon. There might be a jumper for faster roms, but if not, I wouldn't thing you could do anything at all. Except run a program at bootup to copy the roms to ram and redirect the pointers in DOS to the ram copy. This is easy to do with video roms, especially EGA roms, but I think you may need an advanced '286 or '386 model to do it with bios roms. Let's see what the rest of the confernce has to say. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2034 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2062 08-29-88 14:33 (Read 118 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: DAVE CLAY (Rcvd) subject: R: FASTER ROM Reply to #2034 A few morwe things I thought of. to clarify, ROM and RAM are clocked separately. Your calcu;lations of 120ns is good for RAM but not ROMs. Try cutting out TSR programs and see if things get faster. Try a good hard disk cache, the cheapest one is to make sure you have enough BUFFERS specified in CONFIG.SYS file, like 28 to 38, depending. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2034 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2076 08-30-88 00:35 (Read 119 times) from: JAMES IRVING to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: FASTER ROM Reply to #2061 I have a Titan 8086 accelerator card that came with program on disk called "FASTROM". It will put the bios into high ram at start up. If you want to look at it, leave me a message. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2034 reply #5 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2082 08-30-88 17:09 (Read 121 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: JAMES IRVING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: FASTER ROM Reply to #2076 Sure I;d like to see it. Is it copyrighted? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2034 reply #6 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2130 09-05-88 13:41 (Read 106 times) from: CRAIG BAKER to: DAVE CLAY (Rcvd) subject: R: FASTER ROM Reply to #2034 Hmmmm... you definitely didn't HELP anything, unless the ROMS had some shaky bits (and you read it right when you copied it). The speed of the rom chips has ZERO to do with the speed of the system, in principle. Your motherboard inserts WAIT STATES to accomodate the rom in question (as they are always slower than dynamics), and if you have 200 speed roms now (and it boots!), your rom chips are being accessed at a speed that makes 200ns acceptable. Changing to 150ns just means you have increased the waiting time between the point that the rom has the data available, and the point that the system picks it up off the bus. craig, baker, sysop pinecliffe bbs. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2034 reply #7 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2145 09-05-88 22:11 (Read 106 times) from: DAVE CLAY to: CRAIG BAKER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: FASTER ROM Reply to #2130 Craig, What I suspect was that the slower ROMs may have been out of specification and not had their data ready then the timing clock read the data ports. Of course, any number of other slow, or flakey chips could cause a problem with timing. The only clue was the fact that every time I trapped the bug, it was in the same loop in the ROM program. If the problem was in a TSR or other port, I would have expected to have trapped it there. The above is all an uneducated guess on my part, and that is why I appreciate all the feedback. Thanks for your input, it is much appreciated Dave Clay . PS I may never know what really happens in this little beast, but that is what makes it so much fun! Dave. . >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2034 reply #8 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2151 09-06-88 12:06 (Read 100 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: CRAIG BAKER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: FASTER ROM Reply to #2130 Good info in your reply about those ROMS with shakey bits. I'm not sure but I'm starting to think he just happens to have a sloppy BIOS that doesn't cope with typeahead buffer overflow too well. Is pinecliffe bbs in CO? How does it compare to EXEC-PC and what's the number? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2034 reply #9 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2306 09-17-88 09:20 (Read 88 times) from: CRAIG BAKER to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: FASTER ROM Reply to #2151 Pinecliffe is in CO. Only 170mb (tiny compared to exec-pc), but then I'm FREE. Cant afford to buy these nifty drives without $$$$./MR} Number 303 444 7073. Voice is bbs-2. Come visit. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2034 reply #10 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2042 08-28-88 09:54 (Read 121 times) from: RAOUL NELSON to: ALL subject: NEC POWERMATE 386 I recently purchased an NEC Powermate 386 from a freight salvage company. The machine came with no keyboard, nor DOS. I have been using it with Compaq DOS 3.31 with no difficulty. I have been using an EGA card until I decided to upgrade to VGA. I purchased an EVEREX EVGA card and tried to install it. The machine refuses to complete the boot process, as the machine uses "shadow" ram to move the rom BIOS. It seems the VGA card also needs this space for it to function properly. I understand that the sahdow ram can be disabled with the setup utility supplied from NEC. Not having the DOS, I don't have the setup utility. My question is, is there a utility of some kind or some information as to what byte in the cmos ram gets changed to accomplish the shut-off? I am quite satisfied with the Compaq DOS and do not wish to spend the money for NEC'S if i can avoid it. Any help on this subject would be greatly appreciated. Thanks a lot, Raoul Nelson --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2044 08-28-88 15:38 (Read 118 times) from: TOM BRUCE to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: ALL CHARGECARD Thought I would relate another pleasant experience with All Computers and the ChargeCard: Called up their Support BBS and was surprised to find a new EMS 4.0 driver for the card. I downloaded it and Viola! For the cost of a phone call I upgraded all my memory to the new spec. It really seems to do the trick for Windows and all of its memory-hungry applications. I'm now anxious to get my Windows upgrade which promises to make better use of EMS 4.0. The ChargeCard is one investment that keeps paying off. Regards, --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2048 08-28-88 22:00 (Read 113 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: PATRICK KELLER (Rcvd) subject: OOPS OOPS! I just read the rest of the thread and realized at last that you have two boards and two drives. I'm running 30meg and 60meg drives off my WD27X with no problems so far. My advice might apply if you were adding a third drive, but I'd advise replacing the smaller drive first if you need more storage. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2063 08-29-88 14:35 (Read 116 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: OOPS Reply to #2048 The WD -27X card is RLL, true? What drive do you use for your 60meg? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2048 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2072 08-29-88 20:47 (Read 119 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: OOPS Reply to #2063 Hi, Tom. I'm using a ST238 and a Miniscribe 3675 partitioned with Ontrack Disk Manager to two 31+ logical drives (D and E). The 27X seems to work allright, but the C\> takes longer to appear than it did with the Dreaded Adaptec 2070A. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2048 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2081 08-30-88 17:06 (Read 121 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: OOPS Reply to #2072 hmmm, RLL technology is supposed to be 1.5x faster. Got CONFIG.SYS? Got BUFFERS= some big number between 24 and 48 ? Try a cache program. Or maybe your interleave is all wrong. That's pretty common. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2048 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2085 08-30-88 21:51 (Read 119 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: OOPS Reply to #2081 Buffers=24, will try 20 and see if there's a difference. I can't remember what the interleave default was,3 or 4, I think. Wasn't there a file on Mahoney to change the interleave w/o reformating? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2048 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2088 08-30-88 23:18 (Read 120 times) from: NICK KEES to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: OOPS Reply to #2085 The program to change the interleave without reformatting is ILEAVE16.ARC, available here on this board. I would STILL back up the whole thing, though, before doing it, because if you have a power outage or something you could still lose your disk info. I've used an earlier version of that program with good results. Nick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2048 reply #5 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2092 08-31-88 03:47 (Read 121 times) from: KEITH BECKMANN to: NICK KEES (Rcvd) subject: R: R: OOPS Reply to #2088 Be very careful with that program. I tried to use it on my 30 Meg drive. It took 7 hours to complete, even though its estimate was 45 minutes. When it was done, everyting seemed OK until a couple of days later when I tried to run Catdisk. It wcould not build its file out on the hard disk. I was able to copy and/or delete entire file, but any program that slowly built a file would not work properly. Kept comming up with a sector not found error. Since it is the same drive that I have always been using, and still am using, and it has no marginal sectors on it anywhere, I concluded that when the program re-low level formatted each sector, it mess up on the formatting somewhere. Forunately I had done a backup before I used the program, and re-low leveling, and formatting solved the problem entirely. Thank God for Fastback..................... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2048 reply #6 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2099 08-31-88 20:55 (Read 116 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: NICK KEES (Rcvd) subject: R: R: OOPS Reply to #2088 I cut my CONFIG.SYS files and buffers to 20 and boot is much faster now. Can you recommend interleave values for the ST238 and 3675 or will the program set them automatically? I backup with PCtools Deluxe whenever I start fooling with the disks. May you never thirst. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2048 reply #7 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2102 09-01-88 00:10 (Read 127 times) from: NICK KEES to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: OOPS Reply to #2099 Actually, I'm a little thirsty right now . . . Ahhh, that's better. I went and got a beer. The first thing the program does is check what your present interleave is, and then tests other interleaves and tells you what it finds to be the best, and then asks permission to go ahead and change the interleave to that value. A very courteous and intelligent program. Nick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2048 reply #8 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2106 09-01-88 19:45 (Read 123 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: NICK KEES (Rcvd) subject: R: R: OOPS Reply to #2102 Did you see the other reply that talked of problems when building a file slowly, like maybe DLing or maintaining a LOG file? Maybe I'd be better off backing up and running thru a total reformating procedure. Sounds like another afternoon blown. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2048 reply #9 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2112 09-01-88 23:08 (Read 128 times) from: NICK KEES to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: OOPS Reply to #2106 Yeah, I saw the message about building files slowly, but I didn't understand it. What difference does the speed at which you build a file make? Anyway, you should STILL just use ILEAVE. That program DOES give you a whole new low level format, track by track. There's no other way to change the interleave. Nick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2048 reply #10 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2118 09-03-88 22:28 (Read 115 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: NICK KEES (Rcvd) subject: R: R: OOPS Reply to #2112 Since the slow boot has been considerably improved by the reduction of files and buffers specified in CONFIG.SYS, the interleave question is nowin the realm of "ain't broke enough to fix." Otherwise, I think I would just do a low level format, set partition(s) and DOS format. While I study my TELIX30 SALT manual to pass the time. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2048 reply #11 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2149 09-06-88 11:49 (Read 103 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: OOPS Reply to #2085 Yes, ILEAVEn or ILEAVEnn where n was some number(s). It was very slow, took all night in one case, but I have weird hardware. If you use it, tell me what results you get. One note: If the onterleave you have is radically wrong, ILEAVE will report some strange number like 19. It might have been called IAU. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2048 reply #12 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2153 09-06-88 12:13 (Read 103 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: OOPS Reply to #2099 Interleave values depend greatly on hard disk access time, processor speed, and controller design. No way to recommend a good value, except that making it too low can murder your performance even more than making it too high. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2048 reply #13 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2154 09-06-88 12:17 (Read 104 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: OOPS Reply to #2106 Well, get this: I used ILEAVExx to do my second drive. It went all day then crashed. The drive was intact and tested out ok. I restarted it and went home an hour later. I got in thatmorning to discover it had crashed again. By the way, this machine it normally very twitchy. Anyhow, I didn't have time to fix it. I discovered that I had one interleave from track 1 thru about 560, and a different interleave from there to the end. Really. And it works. The drive is faster near the low tracks. I used DTST to read out the track access time in mS and its true. I used that drive in that condition for months with no trouble. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2048 reply #14 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2168 09-06-88 21:12 (Read 106 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: OOPS Reply to #2149 Cutting FILES/BUFFERS to 20 in CONFIG.SYS speeded up booting considerably, and I'm getting conflicting reports about ILEAVENN.ARC"(TM-SEA)" so I've decided it ain't broke enuf to fix. I have the file, but no time to play with it anyway, it would be quicker to low and dos reformat. Grok in fullness. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2048 reply #15 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2170 09-06-88 21:15 (Read 107 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: OOPS Reply to #2153 I believe it is set at 3 now, 2 would be only a slight improvement, 1 isn't recommended for 8Mhz XT's, so (inter)leave well enough alone. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2048 reply #16 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2172 09-06-88 21:21 (Read 109 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: OOPS Reply to #2154 I'm not sure I follow. It crashed twice, then the third time it worked and gave different interleaves at different parts of the disk? The last part could make sense if the sectors are larger further from the center...why do I feel like I know less about this than I thought a minute ago...Anyway, what I said in the previous messages still applies(I guess). Share Water. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2048 reply #17 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2177 09-07-88 00:05 (Read 107 times) from: NICK KEES to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: OOPS Reply to #2172 Oh come on! How can you say that it would be quicker to low level format, then FDISK, then high level format rather then run a program you haven't even seen yet? Try it! First it will tell you what your current interleave is, then calculate what the optimum interleave is. That takes about a minute or two. Then you can tell it to go ahead and leave for lunch. When you get back, you will have a faster machine. It can be just that easy, and I have used it on several machines I come in contact with. Of course it helps if you have a current backup, but you should have that at all times anyway. The advantage is that it is all unattended, all accomplished in one step, and avoids the fdisk, format and restore steps. Nick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2048 reply #18 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2184 09-07-88 21:12 (Read 104 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: NICK KEES (Rcvd) subject: R: R: OOPS Reply to #2177 Some of the messages in this thread refer to multiple hours for ILEAVE to perform it's function. I have 30 and 60 meg RLL drives, and not enough hours in the day to do all that I would. I'm not being narrowminded, its just that having the IDEAL interleave is for now a low priority. I have the 1.6 release of ILEAVE and may do it when I have some free time...which probably won't be until the 80886 256bit processor is current. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2048 reply #19 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2189 09-07-88 22:12 (Read 104 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: OOPS Reply to #2184 David, If you regularly backup the drives, I would like to recommend a program available here called "OPTIMIZE.arc" or "OPTIMISE.arc". I have used it several times on different drives and the actual optimization is really fast. The time for the backup and restore must also be taken into account, but if you use Fastback (tm) or PCBACKUP (tm) you can accomplish the whole thing much faster than with ILEAVE, at least in my experience. With RLL drives, you may have to just let OPTIMISE find the proper interleave for you and then do the format from debug, specifying the interleave you want instead of having the roms use the default value. But it does work well, and really improves performance enough to warrant the time. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2048 reply #20 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2192 09-07-88 22:45 (Read 101 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: OOPS Reply to #2189 Thanks, Steve. I don't have much experience with backup software, I've usually in the past just copied generated files to floppies, but I used the backup in PCTOOLS(tm)(SEAsux) before changing from Adaptec to WD controllers. Will DL OPTIMI(n)e.arc ASAP. Might be interesting to compare it with ILEAVE, try both and see respective results. May get to it next February 29 if I follow current schedule. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2048 reply #21 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2194 09-08-88 06:57 (Read 101 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: OOPS Reply to #2192 Dave, That is the backup I was refering to. Anyway, the results SHOULD be the same. It is just that the time required is much less with OPTIMISE. And as I said, I'm not sure how well ILEAVE works with RLL drives. I had one that refused to complete the format and had to do it from debug and enter the interleave myself. Go for it, in most cases the results are dramatic. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2048 reply #22 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2195 09-08-88 11:48 (Read 100 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: OOPS Reply to #2172 The program quit at some cylinder in the 500's, there are therefore two different interleaves on the drive. Something nice before that cylinder and something less than nice after. I ran that way for months with no problem, if you can believe that. Eventually I reformatted that drive. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2048 reply #23 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2199 09-08-88 22:15 (Read 99 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: OOPS Reply to #2194 Thanks, I will try to get to it. Mebbe this weekend. What? And skip IMTS at McCormick Place? Nevah! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2048 reply #24 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2200 09-08-88 22:17 (Read 108 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: OOPS Reply to #2195 Sounds shaky to me, not for me thanks. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2048 reply #25 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2215 09-09-88 23:44 (Read 103 times) from: NICK KEES to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: OOPS Reply to #2200 I know, I know, it IS hard to find the time to do things. But with ILEAVE, you don't have to BE THERE for the whole thing. You can start it up, let it check the current interleave and calculate the optimal interleave, and tell it to go! Then YOU GO! Come back on Monday morning and you have (voila!) a faster disk. I'm not trying to twist your arm or anything (did it break yet?), but not having enough time available is not a good enough excuse! :-) Nick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2048 reply #26 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2227 09-10-88 23:12 (Read 104 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: NICK KEES (Rcvd) subject: R: R: OOPS Reply to #2215 No time to say hello/goodby I'mlateI'mlateI'mlate..... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2048 reply #27 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2237 09-12-88 00:24 (Read 106 times) from: ROB GREENBERG to: NICK KEES (Rcvd) subject: R: R: OOPS Reply to #2215 cc: DAVID BIRCH Or, gentlemen, you can buy SPINRITE which will automatically do the job PROPERLY (no screwy behavior, no disks formatted at 2 interleaves) for around $59. It does an excellent job, is a joy to use, and does a 30 meg partition of my hard drive in a couple of hours. Rob >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2048 reply #28 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2253 09-12-88 20:50 (Read 109 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: ROB GREENBERG (Rcvd) subject: R: R: OOPS Reply to #2237 I've heard good things about SPINRITE; thanks for reminding me that there's a world outside shareware. Never thirst. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2048 reply #29 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2308 09-17-88 09:43 (Read 96 times) from: CRAIG BAKER to: NICK KEES (Rcvd) subject: R: R: OOPS Reply to #2177 There seems to be major confusion about interleaving. Hope this clarifies: Interleaving applies only to soft sectored hard drives. It means that when the sectors are constructed on the drive (via low level format), the second sector is placed right after the first sector (interleave 1), two sectors after the first sector (interleave 2), 3 sectors after the first sector (interleave 3) etc. etc. Eg on a drive with 7 sectors (to save space), interleave 1 would mean that the sectors occur in the order: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7. Interleave 2 means they are in order 1 5 2 6 3 7 4 Interleave 3 means they are in order 1 6 4 2 7 5 3. Get it? Now, what does altering interleave do? It means that a program will have to wait more (or less) time before the next sector comes under the head (and is available to be read). The OPTIMUM interleave is a fiction. (as are any programs that claim to compute it!). It depends on the program that you are running. The most that a program such as ILEAVE can do is compute timing for an 'average' program, adjusting the interleave until this time is minimized. Changing the interleave downwards or upwards can BOTH result in longer execution time for any given program. Note -- the 'optimal' number for a MFM controller is NOT the same as for an RLL, and the RLL is almost always BIGGER than the MFM. (Remember, the time a program needs to 'get ready' for the next sector means that MORE sectors have gone past on a RLL controller than on an MFM controller). I have found by experience that optimal interleaves are: XT -- Non RLL 3 or 4. RLL 5 or 6. AT -- MFM controller 2 or 3. Adaptec 2372 (NICE controller!) 1. Being too conservative (higher number) means your program may run SOMEWHAT slower. Being too liberal (lower number than above) many mean your program runs MUCH MUCH slower... Enjoy... Oh - there is NOTHING at all bad about having different interleaves at different tracks on the drive. Odd maybe, but it will not 'confuse' the controller. After all, its still looking for sector 3 (say), and doesn't care where it finds it... Craig, sysop pinecliffe bbs. (303)4447073 >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2048 reply #30 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2050 08-28-88 22:45 (Read 118 times) from: PATRICK KELLER to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: HARD DISK CONTROLLERS cc: JEFFREY HOWELL cc: NICK KEES Thanks for the warning about using an ST225 as an RLL drive. My XT came set up with an ST225 and a WD 27X controller, although I haven't known what exactly the components were until recently. Maybe the controller isn't set to operate as an RLL system - I really don't know. It hasn't given me any trouble, other than that 20 Meg just doesn't cut it any more. Hence the purchase of a Miniscribe 3675 that I want to use along with the ST225. Or does your experience still indicate that the fuse is burning on my ST225? Based on all the good advice, my first objective now is to get the necessary cable and try both drives on the first controller. The cable should be easier to locate during the week. However, based on discussions prior to obtaining the Miniscribe 3675, I'm concerned that it may require a controller with different characteristics (RLL) than the ST225, and remain interested in how that is to be accomplished, if it is necessary. This is much harder than it ought to be because of my ignorance. An older and wiser man once told me that "Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement." This feels like the experience phase which follows bad judgement. Thanks again for the help, guys. ** Pat ** --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2054 08-29-88 07:09 (Read 116 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: PATRICK KELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: HARD DISK CONTROLLERS Reply to #2050 Pat, Since you are local (well, almost) it won't be to big a problem to get you the info you need to pull it off. The fact that bought a machine with a 225 hooked to an RLL controller only shows that whoever sold it to you either didn't know what they were doing or they had a great deal of faith in their luck. Try doing a 'chkdsk' and record what it says for the total disk space on the drive as it sits. Not the free space, the total. If it is >30 megs, it is running RLL, if not, it is MFM. I can't find anything saying it can be done this way, but maybe... If you decide to go with two controllers, I would suggest you get another WD controller (1002-WX1) as it is sure to be compatible with the 27X. Also, you must have the 'Super Bios' in both controllers. This is not too big a trick if you have ONE Super Bios, the other is just an eprom away. I can handle that for you. As for the difference between the Miniscribe and the 225, run properly they will require different characteristics in the controller. Thus you may be stuck with using two of them. Is the 225 drive easily accessible (can you get it out of the case easily)? I'll leave you a private message with my home phone number and maybe we can discuss this a little further. It is easier voice since my fingers wear out rapidly when I type. Too much backspacing.... -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2050 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2070 08-29-88 20:38 (Read 117 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DISK CONTROLL Reply to #2064 Tom, As I recall, he has a MiniScribe 3765. And he was/is trying to run the Mini as RLL and also the 225. That is why he wanted to run two controllers. But the problem lies in using his present controller (WD -27X) to run a MFM drive. Don't think it can be done. He can run the Mini as an RLL an the -27X but the 225, in my humble opinion, should not be run RLL. If you recall a year or so back, this is exactly the setup that cost me 2 drives in 4 days. Thus I can't recommend it to anyone. But if he ran a -WX1 for the 225 and the Mini, it may work. I have the WD docs for both controllers so if he calls me we may be able to work something out to his satisfaction. Hope so, a 60 meg drive is sure a nice thing to have. Why, I could store amost all of my Readmac pics on one of them. ;-) just kidding! -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2050 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2131 09-05-88 13:58 (Read 113 times) from: CRAIG BAKER to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DISK CONTROLL Reply to #2070 This is rather fun, seeing all these questions... Here goes... Miniscribe drives are built (these days) to considerably higher quality standards than Seagates (I've been a dealer for 8 years. I quit using Seagates when 3 out of 4 failed within a month, and when I plugged power in a 4038 and several chips on the baseboard DETONATED. Drive had NEVER been tested!). USUALLY Miniscribe drives will run RLL without trouble. Exception is the 3053 when I have never got to run RLL. Miniscribe has RLL versions of most of their drives (not 3053). Eg... 8438 is RLL version of 8425. 3675 is RLL version of 3650. 6079 is RLL version of 6053. Note 'RLL version' means 'guaranteed to work RLL'. To Seagates: Non-RLL seagates will NEVER run RLL. Hence a St225 should NEVER repeat NEVER work RLL. The RLL version is the ST238. Anyone telling you any differently either 1) doesn't know or 2) has an interest in your buying the cheaper 225. 2) applies to your dealer, possibly 1) as well. RLL controller (eg 27x) can NOT be run MFM. Your drive MUST be able to handle the increased density from an RLL controller (27 sectors vs 17). The reasons for a drive being able to run RLL are rather technical, but much misinformation abounds. Some say you need plated media (not true, but often helps). The main thing you need is a very precise spindle motor. Any speed variations are much more fatal when you are reading 50% mor per track. Examples of plated media drives that will NOT run RLL are Lapines. (Had about 30 of them, with a zero percent success rate). Oh - a WARNING. Formatting a drive RLL (such as the 225) will often NOT lead to immediate errors. RLL failures usually arise as corrupted data sectors, after the sector has been written several times. So, you may get 32 mb originally with out bad sectors, only to see seek and data errors crop up later. If you have any more questions, give me a call (voice) 303 444 7071, bbs - Pinecliffe (303) 444 7073..... craig, sysop pinecliffe. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2050 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2136 09-05-88 14:30 (Read 105 times) from: KEITH BECKMANN to: CRAIG BAKER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DISK CONTROLL Reply to #2131 cc: STEVE MCCRYSTAL Since there are many version of ST-225's (Read message #1796), your statement regarding ST-225's not formatting RLL may be in error. I am presently using ST-225's in an XT with an Omti 5527 RLL only controller. As the message states there are two versions of the drive that will not reliably run RLL. But the third type of drive does consistently run RLL. As to controller the Adaptec controller (can't recall the number), will runn MFM or RLL. You just have to select the drive type when low leveling. I don't recommend running ST-225's RLL, this is just what I have done in the past and will contiunue to to in the future. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2050 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2137 09-05-88 14:42 (Read 107 times) from: CRAIG BAKER to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DISK CONTROLL Reply to #2135 Hmmm... I as I said found my OEM on a 27x. But not a good idea (not obvious what they do with the prom, anyway). If you mean, 'can you hook a 225 up to controller' answer is yes. If you mean 'can you run it as 38mb drive reliably' answer is unqualified no. The older drives were considerably better quality than current generation. It would not surprise me to have someone running an older drive for a yar year with not problems. It WOULD surprise me to find a current drive running RLL without the creeping format corruption I described. Perhaps the guys you know just got lucky.... not reason for anyone else to. As to other requirements to run RLL, of course there are several others. But I thought my messages was ALREADY too long! Craig, sysop pinecliffe,. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2050 reply #5 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2138 09-05-88 14:46 (Read 109 times) from: CRAIG BAKER to: KEITH BECKMANN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DISK CONTROLL Reply to #2136 No current version 225 (last 10months) that I know of will run RLL. Older drives MAY. But it is never something that should even be tried. Failure mode is creeping loss of data (as well as occasionally getting tons of bad sectors, on a VERY bad drive). Yes, some controllers (very few) will run both MFM and RLL. But why pay for it? All common controllers are one or the other. My experiences with Seagates recently are such that I would not recommend using ANY seagate drive. RLL or not.... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2050 reply #6 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2139 09-05-88 15:03 (Read 105 times) from: KEITH BECKMANN to: CRAIG BAKER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DISK CONTROLL Reply to #2138 Older 225's will not runn RLL. It is only the one that have the ST-238 controller that will run RLL reliably. You may of had some bad luck with Seagates, but that is the only drive that I will run. Currently I am using the 4038, and the 4053 in my AT, and 2-225's in my XT slave. About a year ago the 225 did have a unacceptable failure rate. Since some of these drive went out into the field, and are used differently, it makes the 225 still look like a culprit. The newer seagates do not have this problem, but slightly older ones do. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2050 reply #7 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2140 09-05-88 20:57 (Read 107 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: KEITH BECKMANN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DISK CONTROLL Reply to #2136 Keith, I agree with you. But due to the scope of this system and my not having direct access to each and every 225 drive that may come into question, I think it fair to say that you should *never* run a 225 drive RLL. You know, I know, and I'm sure that Craig Baker knows how to tell the diference. But the NEXT guy to read my message saying that it OK may not know, and may not know that there is a difference and may not ask. Therefore, I try to be a little careful what I recommend unless I have reason to believe that the person asking or discussing the situation knows what is going on. The Adaptec controller I referred to was the 2070A and it can run either way, one advantage for it. But the guys I referred to were running the OLD ST225 drives (before there were threetypes) and are still doing so. And they are running them as RLL drives. I hope you can understand my reasoning. Basically I am in full accord with you, I just am a little careful about recommending it to everyone. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2050 reply #8 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2141 09-05-88 21:05 (Read 105 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: CRAIG BAKER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DISK CONTROLL Reply to #2137 Craig, We are in agreement then. See my reply to Keith Beckman for my reasoning in the reply. I know it can be done, WE don't recommend it, and WE may or may not rry it ourselves. Is this a fair assessment. I for one won't try it, except with a very old drive. I did try it myself on the recommendation of another, and had exactly the results you described. One drive in 10 hours a nd the other within a few days. The only difference is that BOTH drives were junk when they failed! Neither would format at all! You can bet *I* will be selective about which drives I attempt it on in the future! Hope you see my logic here. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2050 reply #9 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2142 09-05-88 21:16 (Read 106 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: KEITH BECKMANN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DISK CONTROLL Reply to #2139 Keith, I really don't want to start (or continue) a running battle, but my experience is quite different re: the older drives. As I said before, the older (>2 years old) do run RLL reliably, at least with the Adaptec 2072A controller. I personally know people doing it, and a few who have done it, and have heard of *many* who were and still are doing it. But all of them have very old drives, dating back ro the days when the 2070A became generally available. Again, since I don't know the age of the drives a fellow might ask about, I feel it only fair to NOT recommend it since the vast majority of the newer drives probably won't last a month with, say, a WD -27X controller. BTW, there was also a problem with the -27X controllers/bios roms such that even with a 238 the drive would crap out in short order! I had one of those too! If their is any doubt about this, just ask Everex. They shipped a ton of them, and got them all back (or at least 90% of them)! -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2050 reply #10 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2143 09-05-88 21:54 (Read 105 times) from: KEITH BECKMANN to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DISK CONTROLL Reply to #2140 I have never recommended using the ST-225 with an RLL controller. As I have stated earlier in an earlier message, there are different types of ST-225's out on the market. For someone to come out and say that the drive can not runn RLL is untrue. I use my ST-225's RLL, and I will continue to do so. If someone is interested in experimenting with hard drives, I have an excellent explination as to the different type of ST-255's, in message #1796 (I think). Again, I do not recommend using the ST-225 with an RLL controller, unless you have the correct type of ST-225, and are willing to take the chance on it. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2050 reply #11 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2144 09-05-88 22:01 (Read 103 times) from: KEITH BECKMANN to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DISK CONTROLL Reply to #2142 I don't wish to continue a battle either. I simply feel that if someone asks a question regarding hardware that he should be given all the facts. If I were to ask the same question, I would also want a correct response. If it simply can't be done, thats fine, but if it actually can be done with perhaps another version of hardware, I would want to know that. I don't believe that you started this thread either, I believe that is was the person from Denver, CO. As to using the seagates RLL, I don't think I'll run out and buy an MFM controller, because I'm afraid that my 2-seagates will crap out, since they have been up and running for almost a year of 8 to 10 hour days 5 to 6 days a week. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2050 reply #12 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2146 09-06-88 06:54 (Read 103 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: KEITH BECKMANN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DISK CONTROLL Reply to #2144 Keith, I sure hate to let that one go, but there is no point in continuing any further since you obviously missed my point entirely. Just hope someone reading or collecting these messages doesn't read them and decide to try it based on your rather overpowering statements. Even at todays prices, the 225 isn't cheap. At least not for some of us! -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2050 reply #13 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2165 09-06-88 13:58 (Read 105 times) from: KEITH BECKMANN to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DISK CONTROLL Reply to #2146 I see that you have missed my point as well. I have NEVER recommended using the drive RLL to anyone. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2050 reply #14 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2051 08-28-88 23:16 (Read 113 times) from: STEVE RUSTON to: ALL subject: LASER PRINTERS G'DAY FROM DOWN UNDER..... I have a slight problem with laser printers res and the biggest manufactre hewart packard has a policy of giving out little or No information, So its to you I now Turn, The problem:- the highest res on a laser jet printer here is 300dpi, But I have heard that theree is a 600dpi avaible in THe USA, Hewlatt packard deni this and say that a 1200 dpi is in the pipeline. Is this True??? can anyone support this or prove it wrong?? if anyone knows anything please let me know. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2065 08-29-88 14:45 (Read 115 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: STEVE RUSTON (Rcvd) subject: R: LASER PRINTERS Reply to #2051 All the way from Melbourn? G'day mate! Nice to hear from the other side of the big pond. Are you really calling from down under, or are you on the continent on a visit? If you have plenty of money, the Varityper VT600 is a 600 dpi unit. It uses a 16mhz 68020 cpu, 6 meg of memory, 20mb hard disk (really!) and has interfaces for serial, parallel, and Appletalk. One version of it sells for $16000 u.s. See the September 1988 isssue of Byte Magazine for a review of the printer. It was the only reviewed with anything but 300 dpi res. It also supports version 48.0.4 PostScript. Any help? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2051 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2052 08-29-88 00:26 (Read 115 times) from: TOM VANSELOW to: ALL subject: PLOTTERS Hi, I'm looking into buting a plotter and I'm not sure what makes up a good one... What do I look for and who makes plotters which are supported by most CADD programs? I know HP is supose to make good stuff, but they are expensive! I'm not looking to spend much, but I'd like to get my moneys worth... Any suggestions? Thanks, Tom --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2055 08-29-88 07:14 (Read 116 times) from: STEVE MORGAN to: TOM VANSELOW (Rcvd) subject: R: PLOTTERS Reply to #2052 TOM, I have been using a Houston Instruments DMP 51 for two years and no failures, but it is also an expensive plotter. The thing I like the most about the H.I. is the accuracy, and it always make a good drawing. (As good as the operator). Good luck! Steve Morgan >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2052 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2066 08-29-88 16:03 (Read 116 times) from: TOM VANSELOW to: STEVE MORGAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PLOTTERS Reply to #2055 Steve, Thanks for the reply. I'll take a look at H.I. equipment. thanks, Tom Vanselow >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2052 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2132 09-05-88 13:59 (Read 98 times) from: CRAIG BAKER to: STEVE MORGAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PLOTTERS Reply to #2055 You might consider an Enter SP1800. It is a multipen A-D size, HP compatible, at approx half of HP's price.... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2052 reply #3 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2071 08-29-88 20:44 (Read 114 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: CORRECTION TO #2070 Tom, unfortunately, you can't edit if you notice an error after doing a "Z"! What I meant to say was if he ran a -WX1 for the 225 and a -27X for the Mini it may work, etc. Sorry. -[Steve]- --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2075 08-29-88 23:58 (Read 121 times) from: PATRICK KELLER to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: HARD DISK CONTROLLERS cc: NICK KEES cc: JEFFREY HOWELL cc: TOM PETERS cc: DUANE KONKEL Steve, your info of message #2054 matches completely with what I've learned from Western Digital and Duane Konkel of DAK Technologies, who has also been very helpful. This BBS is a great source of technical info. My problem has been that I have wanted to continue to use my ST225, which has a MFM controller, at the same time as my new Miniscribe 3675, which requires an RLL controller. Because of the different contoller types, it is indeed necessary to have two controllers, one for each disk. Once I got the info on changing the interrupts for the second controller, which is a WD 1002, not a 1002A, things went according to plan. To change the interrupts for a WD 1002 27X controller for disk #2: 1. The W4 jumper has to be on 1&2 2. The W8 jumper has to be on 1&2 3. The W6 jumper has to be on 1&2 4. The W3 jumper should be left in place To operate in non-translated mode, any disk: 1. In the S1 jumpers, number 6 should be jumpered but not number 5 ( If a WD 27X model has no S1 jumpers, all jumpers should be removed ) 2. W9 should not be jumpered. With jumpers set as above, the disk installation went smoothly. Although I haven't has much time to use it, everything seems to be working fine with two controllers in place. Incidently, version 3.3 of Disk Manager which came with the Miniscribe uses 2k clusters as its default value, not 4k. Is 2k a more suitable value? I hope so, since that's how I'm set up at this point. Thanks very much for the offer of additional help, and thanks to Nick Kees, Jeffrey Howell, Tom Peters, and Duane Konkel. Hope I can help you guys sometime. Now to play with my new toy! ** Pat ** --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2077 08-30-88 07:15 (Read 116 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: PATRICK KELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: HARD DISK CONTROLLERS Reply to #2075 Pat, Glad you got it working. I had assumed that that was your reasoning for two controllers. I was just afraid you were about to trash your 225 on a RLL controller. You apparently have gotten the proper config from WD and DAK since it works and agrees with the docs I have. Thanks for the info on Disk manager. I'll have to have my friend check on it. We set up his ST251 last week and it wound up with 4k clusters, thus my reference to that value. I don't know what version he was using, tho. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2075 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2087 08-30-88 23:14 (Read 115 times) from: NICK KEES to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DISK CONTROLL Reply to #2077 My understanding of Ontrack's Disk Manager is that the cluster size is dependent on the partition size. That is, if you have one partition that is bigger than 33 meg, you will get bigger clusters than 2K. I've used Disk Manager to set up several ST251 disks with 2 20 meg partitions and got 2K clusters. Nick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2075 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2094 08-31-88 06:54 (Read 118 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: NICK KEES (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DISK CONTROLL Reply to #2087 Thanks, Nick. That is exactly what we did. I never thought of that and must have missed it in the docs. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2075 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2152 09-06-88 12:08 (Read 96 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: NICK KEES (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DISK CONTROLL Reply to #2087 It seems to me that some later versions of Ontrack's Disk Manager even let you override the cluster size choice. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2075 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2238 09-12-88 00:32 (Read 108 times) from: ROB GREENBERG to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HARD DISK CONTROLL Reply to #2152 cc: NICK KEES Later versions of Ontrack's Disk Manager *do* allow you to override the default cluster size. The problem is, if you pick something other than the default, CHKDSK and some other programs may balk when they see your choice. If you don't care about CHKDSK and some weird, outdated programs, you can have any size clusters that you want. Rob >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2075 reply #5 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2083 08-30-88 17:48 (Read 115 times) from: PAT PFAFFL to: ALL subject: NEAT CHIPS I need some information on the new Chips and Technologies NEATSET chips used in the 20 Mhz 286 machines. I recently purchased such a machine, which came with little documentation on the setup of the NEATSET chips. Thavailable parameters are very confusing to me. Anyone with the specs or any other info on the chips or the settings for the chips would be appreciated. Pat --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2155 09-06-88 12:28 (Read 101 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: PAT PFAFFL (Rcvd) subject: R: NEAT CHIPS Reply to #2083 Well, I can tell you what I remember about the NEAT chipset. It has a buncha options for shadowing 16k chunks of memory at various locations. That's for cards that are built to take advantage of RAM shadowing. Some are, summer not. If a card is, shadow its ROM into ram and it'l run lots faster. Hard disk controllers live at C800, or as the NEAT chipset says (in absolute address format) C8000. I know there's an ARCNET card that can use shadowed RAM, etc. Should have said first that RAM shadowing doesn't work if you select the 640k-1024k relocation option. In fact, most of the options are incompatible with 1024k relocation, which moves your top 384k of RAM from its useless postion above the 640k boundry up to 1 meg. Then you can use it as regular AT style extended RAM. That's NOT Lotus/Intel/Microsoft type EMS RAM by the way. I think you also have options for BIOS and VIdeo ROM shadowing, also incompatible with 640-1024 relocation. Turn them on, they make things hustle along faster. The Kaypro implementation of the NEAT chipset in their 16 mHz '286 requires that you turn 640-1024k relocate OFF if you add a LIM board for EMS RAM. Dunno why, that;s what the Kaypro tech support guy told me. What other options do you have? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2083 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2182 09-07-88 20:19 (Read 101 times) from: PAT PFAFFL to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: NEAT CHIPS Reply to #2155 Tom, The NEATset chips control alot more than you refered to... the 206 chip is refered to as the 'integrated peripherals controller' which controls XIO R/W wait states, DMA wait states, etc. The 211 chip is the 'bus controller' which controls processor select, timeout, bus delays and wait states, and clock source. The 212 is the 'memory controller', which is the chip you spoke of. Unfortunately my knowledge of such functions and there actual affect on performance is severely lacking. There are so many parameterq to alter between the three chips that trial and error can be not only time|4N~?nsuming, but also frustrating (the resulting effects depend on the combination of parameters used). Thanks for the input. The info was useful, but I am still looking for a more complete description of the Neatset cp settings and there function. Thanks again. Pat >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2083 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2084 08-30-88 21:24 (Read 116 times) from: KEITH ROGERS to: ALL subject: THE JOY OF SPINRITE Everybody talks about Spinrite so it seemed like time to take a look at it. A check with Egghead offered delivery in 20 days, maybe. A call to Gibson Research in Laguna Hills, CA offered ship the next morning with delivery at the mercy of snailmail. Sounded good to me so an order was placed on a Wednesday, mailed on Thursday, with delivery coming on Monday. First class postage yielded 44th class delivery. Figures. Reading the manual first (honest! And it was necessary, it turns out. For all you new guys to Spinrite, RTFM *FIRST*. It saved me a lot of heartache. You absolutely must create a special disk from the supplied disk to run Spinrite. The supplied disk is write protected, and Spinrite requires that certain things from the operating system be put on the disk from which Spinrite is run. It personalizes the program for your system.) . My hard disk is a 42 MB unit, split into 33.4 and 9.2 MB partitions. Started with the D: drive, 9.2MB, as a test to see how long it takes Spinrite to do its thing. Early returns of the program yielded an initial 2:1 interleave for my disk with a data transfer rate of 261Kbytes/sec. and an average random seek time of 37ms. It further decided that a 1:1 interleave was possible!! The new data transfer rate would be 522 Kbytes/sec. That alone is reason enough to have Spinrite. Choosing the most stringent test of the disk, level 4, is most strongly recommended for the first use of the program. It took 61 minutes to do the hard disk tests, and reset the interleave to 1:1. All this is done in place. By that, I mean that you do not need to remove any thing from the disk in terms of files. ALL TSR's, INSTALLED PROGRAMS LIKE DBASE AND LOTUS, ETC. MUST BE DE-INSTALLED, however. RTFM. (Message continued....) . Next up, the C: drive at 33.4 MB. This drive took 3h47m to do. Time well spent, as now the data transfer rate is up to 522KBytes/sec. Plus, now I know that there is not a single bad byte on the hard disk. The 84 different bit patterns that were written to disk in testing guarantee it. And the low-level format has been refreshed. . Summary: 1) Spinrite is a beauty. Absolutely NO problems, glitches, hang- ups, burps, funny business. 2) Interleave now at 1:1 vice 2:1, with twice the data xfer rate. 3) If you read the manual first, you cannot go wrong. It is perfectly clear, lucid, easy to follow. 4) The current version is 1.2a, and does not go with any version of DOS 4.0. Updates will be available, but may not be free this time. 5) Notwithstanding the purported lack of need to remove anything (other than installed programs) from the disk prior to using Spinrite, only a damn fool would run it without first backing up. Me, I use Fastback Plus, but almost anything similar would work. Even the DOS Backup/Restore. 6) $59. For what you get, this is dirt cheap. And what you get, mainly, is peace of mind that your hard disk is as finely tuned as it can get. 7) Spinrite will not re-low-level format a hard disk that has been formatted with RLL disk drive controllers that use 26 sectors per track. 8) FIRST, RTFM! --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2097 08-31-88 07:32 (Read 119 times) from: AL HANSEN to: KEITH ROGERS (Rcvd) subject: R: THE JOY OF SPINRITE Reply to #2084 Keith, Thanks for the details on Spinrite. I enjoyed your comments about RTFM. One major point you forgot to mention is that Spinrite has a 32 meg partition limitation. I'll probably wait until Gibson resolves this before I plunk down my $59. Now, if I could only figure out a way to tell my users to RTFM witout any offense being taken! AL -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2084 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2100 08-31-88 21:10 (Read 123 times) from: KEITH ROGERS to: AL HANSEN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: THE JOY OF SPINRIT Reply to #2097 Thanks for you kind words, Al, and thanks also for pointing out the 32MB limitation. I should have said that. Would most computer users understand that 32MB is really more than 33MB in actual count? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2084 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2104 09-01-88 07:40 (Read 121 times) from: AL HANSEN to: KEITH ROGERS subject: R: R: THE JOY OF SPINRIT Reply to #2100 I would think that most people HERE would understand the 1024 bytes per K, but I don't know about REAL users. AL -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2084 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2156 09-06-88 12:33 (Read 100 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: AL HANSEN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: THE JOY OF SPINRIT Reply to #2097 The >Phil> version is RYFM, same general meaning. I too would like to have a polite way of saying it. We have another one, for times when we get called to go on a service call at $50/hour only to find that they knocked to plug out of the wall. It goes like this: TECHNICIAN COMMENTS/WORK DONE: Short in operator's headset. I got that from Don Senzig. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2084 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2158 09-06-88 12:35 (Read 100 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: KEITH ROGERS (Rcvd) subject: R: R: THE JOY OF SPINRIT Reply to #2100 Let me get this straight about Spinright: 32mb is really 33.something million bytes, and spinright works with 32mb, which is really 33.something million bytes? or is there some stupid limitation to 32 million bytes which is really 31.something megs? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2084 reply #5 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2163 09-06-88 12:46 (Read 98 times) from: AL HANSEN to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: THE JOY OF SPINRIT Reply to #2156 Tom, yeah that happens every now and then .. my system operator accidently stepped on a multi-outlet box under our modem table and wondered why our communications ceased to function .... AL -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2084 reply #6 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2175 09-06-88 23:30 (Read 102 times) from: KEITH ROGERS to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: THE JOY OF SPINRIT Reply to #2158 Spinrite uses the same convention as othere computer folks: 32MB is really 33,554,432 bytes, a r of 2. It all boils down to the use 1024 bytes, a power of 2, but which is called just 1 K bytes. I sure hope you can readtrhis, my screen is a mess ewith noise. So it is 33,554,432 bytes that Spinrite will handle, which if divided by 1.024 yeilds 32,768,000 commonly called 32 Mb. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2084 reply #7 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2086 08-30-88 22:23 (Read 112 times) from: JIM CAMPOLO to: ALL subject: MICROSCIENCE FDISK 60MEG I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO INSTALL THE ABOVE DRIVE ON AN AT CLONE AND I HAVE HAD NO LUCK. I HAVE USED DISK MANAGER AND THE PROGRAMS IN HDTST1.ARC WITH NO HELP. WITH HDTEST I GET I/O ERRORS IN EVERY CYLINDER ON THE 3RD HEAD, SECTOR 0. IS THERE ANY WAY I CAN GET AROUND THIS AND USE THIS DRIVE OR IS IT JUNK. THANKS FOR ANY HELP JIM --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2091 08-31-88 03:38 (Read 112 times) from: KEITH BECKMANN to: NICK KEES (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MICROSCIENCE FDISK Reply to #2089 If you absolutely have to use the drive with the bad head, Try using a program called disk manager, by on track. It will reposition the sector 0 information for that head somewhere else. I had a similar problem, and that program fixed it. I had 2 drives on my system, one with 4 heads, and the other with 5. The Bios on my controller would not allow 2 different types of drives. I set up the controller as if both drives had 5 heads. Then I used the on track program to partition the 4 head drive, and tell DOS that every sector on the 5th head was bad. Seemed to work. The only problem that occured is when I used a program like coretest. It would try to bypass my bad sectoring and try and write out there. Never did get coretest to work on it, but amlost everything else didn't have a problem. If you happen to have an Omti 5520B controller, it has a neat alternate tracking method that will also solve your problem. Since I switched to that controller from the Western Digital, I have been surpised as to what it can do. Good Luck. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2086 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2095 08-31-88 07:20 (Read 115 times) from: JIM CAMPOLO to: NICK KEES (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MICROSCIENCE FDISK Reply to #2089 cc: SYSOP Hows this. how do I et around using one head on a drive? Thanks for the response. P.S. the drive is not under warranty. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2086 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2160 09-06-88 12:40 (Read 98 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: JIM CAMPOLO (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MICROSCIENCE FDISK Reply to #2095 Repeating, this sounds like a setup mismatch, rather than a bad head. Tho it could be either. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2086 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2176 09-06-88 23:33 (Read 102 times) from: JIM CAMPOLO to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MICROSCIENCE FDISK Reply to #2160 THKS VERY MUCH FOR THE INFO, I THINK I HAVE A HDWR PROBLEM, ILL LET THE VENDOR WORY ABOUT THE REST, WE TRIED EVERY DIAGNOSTIC THE BBS AND MONEY COULD PROVIDE. THANKS AGAIN, JIM >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2086 reply #4 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2090 08-31-88 00:05 (Read 115 times) from: ROLANDO PENA to: ALL subject: PCJR MONITOR CABLE Does anyone out there have an adapter cable for the jr monitor they want to unload? P.C. Enterprise has one available but there is a 6 week wait. I want to move up to an xt clone and still use the jr monitor. VGA will come later I hope! thanks for any info Rolando Pena --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2098 08-31-88 20:16 (Read 113 times) from: PETER NYGAARD to: ALL subject: MONO GRAPHICS I'M WONDERING WHAT MAY BE WRONG WITH MY MONITOR OR MONO GRAPHIC CARD. I CAN DISPLAY A PROGRAM LIKE PRINTSHOP FOR ABOUT 3 MINUTES, IT THEN LOOSES SYNC ANY ALL THAT IS DISPLAYED IS A FINE HORIZONTAL LINE I HAVE TRIED ANOTHER GRAPHICS CARD, AND IT DOES THE SAME THING. THERE FORE I DO NOT BELIEVE IT IS THE DISPLAY CARD........... ANY IDEAS......? THANKS.......... --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2103 09-01-88 02:25 (Read 122 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: PETER NYGAARD (Rcvd) subject: R: MONO GRAPHICS Reply to #2098 Does that horizontal line happen when you just let the monitor on and leave it alone ? I have had TV's that have had the horizontal line right in the middle of the screen. In one case a tube fixed it, another a chip, neither was expensive or complicated (color monitors are not as easy)... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2098 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2105 09-01-88 07:49 (Read 120 times) from: AL HANSEN to: PETER NYGAARD (Rcvd) subject: R: MONO GRAPHICS Reply to #2098 It's in the monitor. Your horizontal sync is gone, or about to go. Better have a tech take a look at it. I've had 3 IBM 8513 monitors with the same problem. AL -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2098 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2108 09-01-88 20:18 (Read 118 times) from: PETER NYGAARD to: THOMAS ATKINSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MONO GRAPHICS Reply to #2103 IN TEXT MODE THE MONITOR IS FINE, BUT THEN AT A RANDOM INTERVAL OF TIME. THE MONITOR GOES WACKO!! THE WACKO! MODE ONLY OCCURS DURING A MONO GRAPHICS SESSION. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2098 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2109 09-01-88 20:21 (Read 120 times) from: PETER NYGAARD to: AL HANSEN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MONO GRAPHICS Reply to #2105 DID THE PROBLEM WITH YOUR MONITORS POP UP IN BOTH TEXT MODE AND GRAPHICS MODE? IN MY CASE THE TEXT MODE IS GREAT, BUT LOOK OUT FOR THE GRAPHICS MODE! AFTER A RANDOM INTERVAL OF TIME, THE MONITOR WILL LOSE ITS SYNC............. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2098 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2110 09-01-88 20:55 (Read 121 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: PETER NYGAARD (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MONO GRAPHICS Reply to #2108 Borrow a monitor and see if you can eliminate the monitor itself. Then the card could be suspect. The horizontal sync message was what i have experienced... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2098 reply #5 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2114 09-02-88 07:24 (Read 125 times) from: AL HANSEN to: PETER NYGAARD (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MONO GRAPHICS Reply to #2109 When the hor. synce went the whole screen went to one hor. thin line. That was it, a replacement was received for each dead one. AL -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2098 reply #6 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2107 09-01-88 20:15 (Read 115 times) from: GEROLD GENETT to: ALL subject: 1-2-3 NO PRINT TO EPSON I AM UNABLE TO PRINT LOTUS 1-2-3 WORKSHEETS OR TO PRINT USING THE PRINTGRAPH UTILITY WITH 1-2-3 VERSION 2.01 ON MY NEW EPSON FX 850. ALSO THE PRINTSHOP PROGRAM WILL NOT PRINT. MY FORMER TANDY 1000 USING A TANDY DMP-130 USED BOTH PROGRAMS. WHY IS MY NEW SWAN XT-10 AND NEW EPSON FX 850 NOT CAPABLE OF PRINTING? IN OTHER WORDS, WHAT AM I DOING WRONG? --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2113 09-01-88 23:12 (Read 127 times) from: NICK KEES to: GEROLD GENETT (Rcvd) subject: R: 1-2-3 NO PRINT TO EPS Reply to #2107 First, what exactly happens when you try to print? Do you get anything at all? If not, try hitting Shift-PrtScr when looking at a spreadsheet. If you still get nothing, you don't have the printer hooked up to the computer right. If PrtScr DOES work, then look at what 1-2-3 is told in the configuration file about the printer. Is it told that the printer is hooked to LPT1:? Those are some things to try first. Nick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2107 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2116 09-03-88 13:40 (Read 114 times) from: RUSS TERRY to: GEROLD GENETT (Rcvd) subject: R: 1-2-3 NO PRINT TO EPS Reply to #2107 Maybe your printer can't print ALL UPPERCASE LETTERS. Ha Ha Do you have the epson set for graphics printing capabilities? I know if I set my Panasonic to Epson emulation it won't print graphics dude. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2107 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2120 09-03-88 23:55 (Read 111 times) from: GEROLD GENETT to: RUSS TERRY (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1-2-3 NO PRINT TO Reply to #2116 THANKS BUT NICK KEES TROUBLESHOOTING TIPS LED ME TO THE SOLUTION. AS SOON AS I SELECTED LPT1 AS THE OUTPUT PARAMETER I WAS ABLE TO PRINT FROM WITHIN LOTUS 1-2-3. SOMETIMES A SIMPLE FAULT WILL BE OVERLOOKED UNLESS ONE IS ABLE TO STEP BACK FROM THE PROBLEM. GEROLD >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2107 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2125 09-04-88 12:20 (Read 104 times) from: RUSS TERRY to: GEROLD GENETT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1-2-3 NO PRINT TO Reply to #2120 Yes, I saw the thread. I was of course, Gerald, being sarcastic. I would have offered some valid suggestions if, after reading the thread, nobody else had. Glad to see you got the problem licked. It is always a pain when moving to a new system, but that is also always the first thing you should check - setup parameters. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2107 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2162 09-06-88 12:45 (Read 99 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: GEROLD GENETT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 1-2-3 NO PRINT TO Reply to #2120 Glad you got yer printer to work, let us know when you get your capslock key fixed. All caps is a little harder to read you know. See you on the wires... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2107 reply #5 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2111 09-01-88 22:45 (Read 120 times) from: JAN HARWELL to: ALL subject: GENICOM PRINTER Trying desperately to find anyone out there who uses or is familiar with this printer. (Please also refer to a related message I left in IBM General Conf.) Thanks in advance to all who reply! --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2119 09-03-88 22:41 (Read 111 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: JAN HARWELL (Rcvd) subject: R: GENICOM PRINTER Reply to #2111 I know that USF&G uses them.... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2111 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2115 09-02-88 20:08 (Read 119 times) from: GEROLD GENETT to: NICK KEES (Rcvd) subject: R:1-2-3 NO PRINT THANKS A BUNCH FOR THE TROUBLESHOOTING TIPS. I WAS JUST ABLE TO SOLVE MY PROBLEM WITH 1-2-3 AND THE EPSON THANKS TO YOUR HELP. I ONLY GOT A BEEP AND A FLASHING "ERROR" MESSAGE WHEN I TRIED TO PRINT. THE MESSAGE AT THE LOWER LEFT READ "PRINTER ERROR". THEN I TRIED PRINT SCREEN ON THE KEYBOARD AND OBTAINED A PRINT OUR AS PER NORMAL. SO I LOOKED AT THE SETUP AND FOUND THAT MY PRINTER WAS TO BE ADDRESSED AT "PARALLEL 1". FOLLOWING YOUR ADVICE I CHANGED THAT TO "LPT1" AND THINGS WORKED AS PER ADVERTISEMENT. THANKS AGAIN FOR HELPING A DUFFER LIKE ME. GEROLD/ --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2117 09-03-88 18:37 (Read 123 times) from: DAVE CLAY to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: FASTER ROM Tom, Thank you for your wise and informitive counsel on how the PC clocks memory. That helped a lot. Last night, I did an experiment which indicates that the faster ROM-BIOS chips did eliminate my hard crashes. My non-scientific test went like this. 1. Unpack a large .ARC file in the VDISK. 2. Send all the .DOC files to PRN via SUPERSPL. 3. Delete any un-wanted files. 4. Use Phil's PKPACK to re-ARC the rest of the good files. 5. Type commands like DIR CD etc to fill the Typeahead buffer. Before I put the faster BIOS into this machine, it would always get hung up in a very strange way. The speaker would beep contionously, the printer would slow to 1/100 of its normal speed, and the screen would write letters about 1/2 as fast as I type and I am ver a very very slow typest. If this beast didn't go into that funny 'hung' mode, it would just hard crash. Now It runs like a champ when I run the goofy test. I also noticed that if I had Periscope in the background, it always popped up to a loop like this: (when I gave a NMI) F000:5694 OUT 61h, AL F000:5696 MOV CX, 0D0h F000:5699 LOOP, 5699 ; This is where she hangs. My best guess is that she cannot get out of this loop. Thanks again for all the help. Dave Clay PS 1. I am sure the problem is not with Phil's fine software, I get the hangs with many other programs. Its just when I am processing a lot of shareware, I often go thru the steps above. 2. ARC is the property of SEA, VDISK is the property of IBM and SUPERSPL is the property of AST. (got to be carefull these days with all the dig-a-lings around suing every one). Dave. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2150 09-06-88 11:58 (Read 96 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: DAVE CLAY (Rcvd) subject: R: FASTER ROM Reply to #2117 Woah there... that doesn't sound like a hung condition or a crash, that sounds a lot like a full typeahead buffer. If the machine is busy and you keep generating interupts by bashing the keyboard, some of what you describe is inevitable. Try KBFIX, available here, to expand yer buffer a litle. The way the printer and other processes slow down is typical of a full buffer. Some BIOS's are very innefficient about sounding the bell that signals typeahead buffer full. Mine is- it doesn't seem to be able to do anything at all while the beeper is going, and the beep is longer than on other machines. Hence the slow down. One easy way to fix your problem: Don't type ahead so much. Also, for DOS 3.2 and up, check CONFIG.SYS for STACKS= and add one if not. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2117 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2221 09-10-88 11:51 (Read 100 times) from: DAVE CLAY to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: FASTER ROM Reply to #2150 Tom, Thanks for the input and good ideas. You have given me something to think about! Thanks again, Dave Clay >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2117 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2121 09-04-88 00:35 (Read 110 times) from: MICHEALLE LESKANIC to: ALL subject: 8'' DRIVE FOR AN AT Can someone give me a lead as to where to purchase the appropriate equipment to interface an 8 inch drive to an AT ??? I need to be able to write to a BASF 6104 LSI drive ( also compatible with an IBM 3740 ). Any information would be appreciated. Thanks, Michealle Leskanic --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2123 09-04-88 04:36 (Read 111 times) from: JIM DUNNIGAN to: MICHEALLE LESKANIC (Rcvd) subject: R: 8'' DRIVE FOR AN AT Reply to #2121 There's an outfit in Princeton, NJ called Floppy Disk Services which seems to carry disk drive equipment for all situations. Check ads in back pages of PC Mag or, better yet, any issue of Computer Shopper. I know there are suppliers for your requirements around. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2121 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2214 09-09-88 22:53 (Read 98 times) from: MICHEALLE LESKANIC to: JIM DUNNIGAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 8'' DRIVE FOR AN A Reply to #2123 Jim, Thanks for the info on 8'' drive for the AT. I'll look them up and try my luck. Let you know how it comes out. Thanks again, Michealle Leskanic ... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2121 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2124 09-04-88 11:07 (Read 110 times) from: FLIP TROIANO to: ALL subject: WELL'S AMERICAN COMPUSTR Has any one bought the new tower system from Well's American. I'm thinking of buying the 286 version now and upgrading to the 386 when it is available. Has anyone had any trouble with the company in the past. Does any one Know wher else "ZIP" packaged memory can be bought. Thanks, Flip --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2128 09-05-88 09:25 (Read 102 times) from: GEORGE HOFFMAN to: FLIP TROIANO (Rcvd) subject: R: WELL'S AMERICAN COMPU Reply to #2124 I've had very good luck with wells american's A-Star (286 box) and have always found them to be helpful. As an example, I needed a bios update which was done free (compare to COMPAQ charging 50-100 bucks). The internal construction was superb, and it's the ONLY machine I know of which handles the 720k/1.4meg floppies PERFECTLY with no device driver, even supporting DOS 3.3 FORMAT B: /n:9 to get 720k on a 1.4 device. I would have absolutely no hesitation buying one. They make excellent hardware, and don't release things until they work (witness the current litany in this conference regartding attempt to get the 3-1/2 inch drives going). -- george hoffman >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2124 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2196 09-08-88 12:01 (Read 98 times) from: FLIP TROIANO to: GEORGE HOFFMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: WELL'S AMERICAN CO Reply to #2128 Thanks George, I'll probably be ordering within a week or two. I appreciate your time. Flip >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2124 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2126 09-04-88 13:35 (Read 108 times) from: PATRICK KELLER to: ALL subject: BOOT TIME With two hard drives, my boot time has increased substantially. After checking RAM, the system looks at the second hard drive for about 20 seconds before initiating the 'normal' boot sequence at the a: drive and proceeding to the original hard disk, from which it boots. Both hard disks have been set up with disk manager, and the /2 option is used with the drdrvr.bin file in config.sys. I'm sure others have been through this before. Each disk has its own controller. Could the system be trying to boot from the second drive first? ** Pat ** --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2164 09-06-88 12:51 (Read 99 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: PATRICK KELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: BOOT TIME Reply to #2126 Let me understand here, you have two controllers, with a hard disk on each one, total two hard disks? Is one RLL and the other MFM? That sounds wierd, does ontrack seem to be loaded when the slowdown is happening? Try commenting out the DEVICE=DMDRVR.BIN and see if that changes it (besides making the second drive inaccessable) and see if it's purely hardware. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2126 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2173 09-06-88 21:59 (Read 104 times) from: PATRICK KELLER to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: BOOT TIME Reply to #2164 You understand correctly: I've got my original MFM hard disk and a second, recently added RLL hard disk. Because of MFM vs. RLL, each disk has its own controller. Works super except for the increased boot time, which may be a natural consequence of such shenanigans. I'll try omitting DEVICE=DMDRVR.BIN as you suggest and see if boot time is affected, although experience from getting the setup functional makes me skeptical. Maybe it is hardware. I'll share the results, and thanks for the suggestion. ** Pat ** >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2126 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2127 09-04-88 23:38 (Read 103 times) from: EDWARD MARCH to: ALL subject: 386 MOTHER BOARDS I have a PC-TECH 286 mother board I would like to upgrade to a 386 (or maybe a 386SX 16 bit external) who make a reliable mother board ?? any magazine reveiews ?? is the size the same as the AT 286 boards ? will the present cards in my 12mhz run at 16mhz ?? what problems will encounter ?? any feedback is helpful .. thanks -Ed- --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2148 09-06-88 11:46 (Read 97 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: PETER NYGAARD (Rcvd) subject: ITT NO BOOT c: PRIVATE #65323 09-01-88 20:25 (Read 2 times) f: PETER NYGAARD t: TOM PETERS (Rcvd) s: BOOT FROM HD HERE IS ANOTHER PUZZLING DELEMA FOR THE HARDWARE .......GURU............. MOST PC COMPATABLES TODAY CAN BOOT FROM HARD DISK IT SEEMS. HOWEVER, AT WORK WE HAVE AN ITT XTRA COMPUTER THAT MUST BE TURNED ON ONCE. THEN LEAVE IT SO IT ERRORS LOOKING FOR A DISK IN DRIVE IN (A). NOW WE TURN IT OFF AND BACK ON AGAIN, AT THIS TIME IT WILL BOOT ON DRIVE (C). ANY CLUE? THANKS Ask questions in the public section of the board- that way more people can chime in. Better odds of getting an answer. 1. Hard disk formatted upright and run sitting on its side? 2. Try reformatting (back up first of course), do a low-level and then repartition and reformat using DOS. 3. Open up and reseat all cards and conenctors. 4. Meter the power supply. Got 5vdc +15% -5% ? 12vdc +/- 10%? under load? 5. Controller might be bad. 6. If this is an OLD ITT XTRA, it may have an old BIOS which was bugggy. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2166 09-06-88 17:50 (Read 96 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: ALL subject: BIDIR PARALLEL PORTS > A while back, there was a discussion of using IBM pc parallel ports for > input and output, and it was more or less decided that they weren't wired > for that. > > Steve Ciarcia just published a 1 or 2 wire fix for that in BYTE. I > organized some of what he said and uploaded it to the Mahoney collection > into a file called PARALLEL.TXT which see, or the September 1988 issue of > BYTE. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2171 09-06-88 21:19 (Read 97 times) from: DON OLSON to: ALL subject: PINOUT FOR HPLJET II Help? I'm in need of the proper pinout for a HP Laser Jet II printer. I've set the current RS232 connector like a null modem cable. It seems to work just fine but not being sure has me worried. Thanks!! =======================>>> Don Olson <<<======================= --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2307 09-17-88 09:30 (Read 87 times) from: CRAIG BAKER to: DON OLSON subject: R: PINOUT FOR HPLJET II Reply to #2171 Correct Pinout for PC to HP -- HP end --------- PC end (db25 Female) 3 2 2 3 7 7 20 5&6 Note that NULL MODEM is a meaningless term (largely), usually just involving switching pins 2 and 3. If it prints at all, your only concern is handshaking. Dump a HUGE file to printer. If it loses it part way through the file, your cable is incorrectly wired. Craig, sysop pinecliffe. (303gs-B) 444 7073 >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2171 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2174 09-06-88 23:01 (Read 103 times) from: PATRICK KELLER to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: BOOT TIME Booting without DMDRVR.BIN did not affect the booting sequence or time noticably. I don't understand why the system looks at disk #2 before disk #1, but suspect it's time to be happy and enjoy the fact everything is working! Thanks again for the response. ** Pat ** --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2179 09-07-88 07:06 (Read 99 times) from: BOB BLAIR to: JOE VINCENT (Rcvd) subject: PS/2 60 CONTINUED cc: AL HANSEN Joe and Al, Thanks for the comments guys. We got it back yesterday. Computerland had warranteed the hard drive. Perhaps everything will hold together this time. I will install the DOSFIX33 fix this time. bblair --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2181 09-07-88 20:03 (Read 98 times) from: MIKE STATLER to: ALL subject: AST RAMPAGE HELP? I INSTALLED AN AST RAMPAGE BOARD WITH 512 K IN MY AT CLONE USING THE DEFAULT SETTINGS WITCH ARE CORRECT FOR MY COMPUTER. 512K INSTALLED ON THE MAIN BOARD, AND 128 K TO FILL IN THE 640 DOS. ALL I GET ON START UP IS PARITY ERRORS. SHOULD I SET THE BOARD TO FILL IN EXPANDED MEM(ie 384 K)? I CAN'T RUN DESKVIEW, IT KEEPS TELLING ME I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH MEM. THANKS FOR YOUR HELP. --------MIKE STATLER---------- --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2187 09-07-88 22:03 (Read 98 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: MIKE STATLER (Rcvd) subject: R: AST RAMPAGE Reply to #2181 Mike, Is your AT a clone runnung at >8mhz? If it is, good luck. I sent back two of them that acted just like yours. Also, the ram chips may be too slow for the clock speed. Just a couple of ideas... -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2181 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2228 09-11-88 08:02 (Read 102 times) from: MIKE STATLER to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: AST RAMPAGE Reply to #2187 THANKS STEVE, I WILL SLOW IT DOWN AND TRY AGAIN. ------------MIKE--------------- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2181 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2185 09-07-88 22:00 (Read 104 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: RANDY MESKER (Rcvd) subject: R: COMPAQ/IBM Reply to #2180 Randy, As I recall from when I did it, you must boot from a floppy containing the DOS3.3 system, command.com, and sys.com. Once you are booted, do a "sys C:" to transfer the system files to the HD, copy command.com to C:\, and reboot from the hard drive. -[Steve]- --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2202 09-08-88 22:55 (Read 106 times) from: PATRICK KELLER to: RANDY MESKER (Rcvd) subject: R: COMPAQ/IBM Reply to #2180 Don't know how helpful this will be, but I recently had trouble when I set up a second hard disk with MS-DOS 3.2, and my original hard disk had been set up with IBM DOS 3.2. In trying to get the whole system working with MS-DOS, the MS SYS files would not overwrite the original IBM SYS on the original hard drive. The only way to install MS-DOS on the original IBM installed drive was to reformat it with MS-DOS. Interestingly, the single disk system had worked fine with MS-DOS command files and IBM SYS files up to that point. If this wasn't relevant, thanks for listening. Several messages have involved boot sequences and multiple drives. Anyone know how to redirect BIOS to look first at D: on a second hard drive, ignoring C: on the first physical hard drive? Thanks. See Steve, now I know how to enter blank lines in my text! ** Pat ** >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2185 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2205 09-08-88 23:41 (Read 105 times) from: RUSS TERRY to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: COMPAQ/IBM Reply to #2185 cc: RANDY MESKER Steve, I don't mean to sharpshoot, but didn't you encounter any disk problems by going to 3.3? It seems I have seen some horror stories about incompatible disk formats. I know there is with 4.0, and experienced it a little with floppies when going from 3.0 to 3.1. Just thought I'd ask. Russ >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2185 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2211 09-09-88 20:13 (Read 100 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: PATRICK KELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: COMPAQ/IBM Reply to #2202 Pat, Nice! -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2185 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2212 09-09-88 20:17 (Read 100 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: RUSS TERRY (Rcvd) subject: R: R: COMPAQ/IBM Reply to #2205 Russ, There WERE a lot of reported bugs in DOS3.3 but I have seen none of them. None at all. There is no time like the present to tackle that mess. See my next message... -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2185 reply #4 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2186 09-07-88 22:00 (Read 98 times) from: RUSS TERRY to: ALL subject: ADDS FOR SALE Anyone looking for museum pieces? I have someone with a Micro Design? Osbourne compatible CP/M (where does the / go?) machine. It has an ADDS display, bum keyboard and bundled software (Wordstar, etc.) that he said was THE BEST you could get in 1981 when he bought the beast. Two floppy drives thatsupposedly READ IBM format. He's semi-interested in buying a used PC or XT or parts thereof and having me put it together for him. So anyone interested might be able to make some kind of deal with him. Any takers? P.S. I told him too bad it wasn't an Osbourne, aren't those things like a collectors item now? Serious replys only - NO LAUGHS OR JOKES - --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2188 09-07-88 22:03 (Read 98 times) from: RUSS TERRY to: ALL subject: 3.5" HELP(MINOR) Does anyone have pinouts for an IBM ext. 3.5" with a type 2 cable? I am trying to convert it for use as an internal, any help would be GREATLY appreciated. Yes I know there are only 13 pins to futz with (minus the 33? grounds), but it would make things ALOT easier. Pinouts for the IBM (no clones) XT floppy drive adapter would also help. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2190 09-07-88 22:18 (Read 98 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: RUSS TERRY (Rcvd) subject: R: 3.5" HELP(MINOR) Reply to #2188 Russ, Are you trying to configure the cable for my controller? I have the IBM hardware manual, but I don't know if the pinout is in there. I'll check it out. BTW, the number I left you is a day phone, in case I forgot to tell you that. I got real attached to that I/O board and was about to order the parts to implement the clock when I read your message. Believe it or not, I have a complete parts list, component placement diagram, and docs on the jumper and switch settings for the thing! -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2188 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2197 09-08-88 20:10 (Read 100 times) from: RUSS TERRY to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5" HELP(MINOR) Reply to #2190 Steve, The drive comes up (partly) as B: on MY system. The motor spins and the heads move, so I think I have the pin configured correctly; however, the device driver comes up initializing E:. I don't have a 3.2 or above manual here and don't even think there is an option switch for which drive to load. If there is, it would be great because I think that is the only obstacle now. I have the feeling there isn't which means I'll have to rely on some help from someone who can patch the DRIVER.SYS to NOT look for the next available drive, but HARD CODE the drive specifier into it. The drive is recognized as B: but I cannot format or read a diskette. I even tried to read a single sided and it doesn't work. Maybe there is another driver out there somwhere or a replacement BIOS that can handle the 720k floppy as drive B: (internal). IBM's driver SUCKS! Russ >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2188 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2198 09-08-88 20:52 (Read 101 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: RUSS TERRY (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5" HELP(MINOR) Reply to #2197 Russ, A replacement bios might not be a bad idea. But in the meantime try: DEVICE=driver.sys /D:1 /T:80 /S:9 /F:2 The /D param is for the second floppy starting from 0 = A. This may Do it. At least that is the right syntax, if it doesn't work it back to the boards! -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2188 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2201 09-08-88 22:25 (Read 106 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: RUSS TERRY (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5" HELP(MINOR) Reply to #2197 Check your motherboard dipswitches to see if they aren't set for 4 drives instead of two. I helped install a hard disk in a IBM PC and the prompt came up E> until we changed the switches to XT configuration instead of PC and then we got C>. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2188 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2203 09-08-88 23:09 (Read 104 times) from: RUSS TERRY to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5" HELP(MINOR) Reply to #2198 cc: STEVE MCCRYSTAL Thanks for the reply but /D:1 is illegal in DRIVER.SYS; however, I stumbled on something while scanning for "driver" that I KNEW I had seen somwhere before - DRIVPARM -. It's an internal DOS 3.2 command that allows logical assignment of a physical drive. i.e. /D:1 for internal drive B: Setup as DRIVPARM=/D:1 /F:2 /F being the form factor (2=720k) in the config.sys. It takes less RAM and can hook up logical drives to physical ones. My problem is not solved however. I still might have the pin config wrong (I converted the 37-D external connector to a dual 17-pin paddle type connector. If going over the pin config doesn't work. I'll have to see if there is an internal drive type adapter similar to the one installed in the external drive casing for the external connector. I must clarify the first statement. /D:1 is illegal for MY system and most hard drive systems. My situation is compounded by 2 hard drives C: & D: driver.sys loads the NEXT available drive, E: in my case. Not good when the drive is physically connected as an internal drive B: True Blues seem to operate differently. My clone only recognizes drive A: if I have the switches set for one diskette drive - the way it SHOULD be. IBMers still see B: as the alien drive A: EVEN if the switches are set for one diskette! In other words, my Big Blue XT at work, set for ONE floppy sees it as both A: AND B:. My clone however, does not - ONLY A: (unless I set the switch for two drives). Russ >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2188 reply #5 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2204 09-08-88 23:17 (Read 103 times) from: RUSS TERRY to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5" HELP(MINOR) Reply to #2201 Thanks for the reply, but it's WAY beyond that. If you're interested see msg # 2203, or run through the thread of 9-8-88 on this subject. I already have one internal 5.25 and two hard drives, switches were set for one floppy when I removed the second about a month ago to install my second HD. The jist of the problem is that I'm trying to convert an external IBM to be hooked up to the internal cable/controller because I don't have an open drive bay and my controller is a multi I/O that controls ONLY two internal floppies and I CANNOT disable the floppy control on the board. MUCH to my dismay and contrary to the docs for it. (The switch is dead - doesn't hook up to anything!) Russ >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2188 reply #6 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2218 09-10-88 09:15 (Read 100 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: RUSS TERRY (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5" HELP(MINOR) Reply to #2203 Russ, if you get really desperate, play around with the ASSIGN command as a temporary solution of the symptom (doesn't solve the problem). Try something like "ASSIGN e=b" to route disk I/O for E: to B: (or, if the problem is the other way around, try "ASSIGN b=e"). If you try this, please observe the cautions in your DOS manual (i.e., don't use BACKUP, RESTORE, LABEL, JOIN, SUBST or PRINT commands with the ASSIGNed drive). Good luck. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2188 reply #7 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2226 09-10-88 23:09 (Read 101 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: RUSS TERRY (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5" HELP(MINOR) Reply to #2204 Gotcha, I am having similar confusion right now because my passive backplane "mother board in a slot" had the FDC on it with no apparent way to disable it short of risky surgery. I'm trying to add a 1.44meg 3.5" to amine and I have no empty bays either. 5 pounds of sand in a 4 pound bag. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2188 reply #8 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2234 09-11-88 22:55 (Read 103 times) from: RUSS TERRY to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5" HELP(MINOR) Reply to #2226 No S&%t! How come everything always has to be such a pain? If the stupid Multi I/O would have been able to be disabled I wouldn't be going through all this crap now. What really p.o.'d me was that the user manual listed one of the dips as floppy enable/disable but it isn't wired! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2188 reply #9 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2242 09-12-88 10:42 (Read 105 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: RUSS TERRY (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5" HELP(MINOR) Reply to #2204 I assume you have a switch that is documented to disable the floppy controller part of your multi i/o board, and doesn't seem to be connected to anything. Make sure there isn't a trace hiding under the switch body beforeyou jump to the that conclusion. The trace could be on either side of the board and they can be hidden most cleverly. If you have no switch, you can still disable the on-board controller, if you don't mind performing minor surgery. I think I left a message before, or uploaded something, with details on how I did it. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2188 reply #10 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2252 09-12-88 20:47 (Read 107 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: RUSS TERRY (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5" HELP(MINOR) Reply to #2234 Have Adaptec packed with MO, will hit UPS tomorrow. I'm waiting on a response from the mfg of my magic number box about disableing the FDC. If possible, 1.44meg, otherwise, I don't know...I hate to give up the convenience of two identical 360k drives just to run stiffies. I'll keep an eye on your thread for inspiration, maybe an external would work. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2188 reply #11 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2258 09-12-88 23:55 (Read 103 times) from: RUSS TERRY to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5" HELP(MINOR) Reply to #2242 Thanks, but the problem has been conquered! I checked for a trace and even Pulled the switch off the board after 30 minutes with an iron and a solda-pult. It was not connected at all. Read msg #2256 in the Hardware conference for more info if you're interested. I converted the ext DB37 to a 34-pin male edge connector. (I like having the drive as B: much better anyway.) Thanks again. Russ >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2188 reply #12 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2260 09-13-88 00:00 (Read 106 times) from: RUSS TERRY to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5" HELP(MINOR) Reply to #2252 Check out msg # 2256 in the Hardware Conference. Though with my solution you would still have to give up a 5.25 drive B: Russ >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2188 reply #13 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2271 09-13-88 22:30 (Read 110 times) from: RUSS TERRY to: JOE VINCENT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5" HELP(MINOR) Reply to #2218 I'm replying to an old (4 days) thread so you might have seen my final solution. If not check out msg #2256 in the Hardware conference. Thanks for the suggestions. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2188 reply #14 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2191 09-07-88 22:37 (Read 96 times) from: JAMES IRVING to: ALL subject: HORIZONTAL LINE/IBM MONO I'm sorry to leave this message to "All", but I don't have enough time left to do a search and find who was having the problem with the IBM mono monitor. According to the July/August issue of MICRO CORNUCOPIA magazine, a horizontal line through the middle of the screen is a common failure mode for the IBM monochromatic monitor. It is also the third most frequent failure to this piece of equipment. To quote "....is a horizontal line across the screen. This indicates a bad chip (location IC401); it is a TDA1170 IC." If your curious, the second most common failure is resistor R515 (180K/0.5 WATTS); symptom of this failure is inability to adjust the brightness. The most common failure is a blank screen caused by failure of TR23, with its fuse blown, and/or a shorted flyback transformer. They rrecommended replacing the transistor and fuse first. Jim --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2206 09-09-88 00:19 (Read 108 times) from: JAN HARWELL to: ALL subject: STATIC CONTROL MATS I have my machine sitting on a molded plexiglass piece which extends beyond the edge of the table and drops the keyboard down to typing height. It has been suggested to me that this might be dangerous from a static standpoint. Would appreciate any comments from the "Experts" out there. If the static danger is a severe one, would setting the processor and the keyboard on anti-static mats help? If so, can you lead me to a source either local or mail order? Thanks in advance. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2207 09-09-88 06:42 (Read 100 times) from: BRIAN KIEHNAU to: JAN HARWELL (Rcvd) subject: R: STATIC CONTROL MATS Reply to #2206 Jan You should be safe with out any static mats under your computer and keyboard. If you start having problems this winter when the air dries out you might have to do somthing like a anti-static floor mat or somthing. I have a lowered key board also, when it gets dry enough I can walk across the carpet and lock up my machine by touching the keyboard. This is only a annoyance and has not caused any damage even though the static discharge is audible (high voltage) and it has happened several times. Brian >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2206 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2210 08-09-88 19:13 (Read 95 times) from: RUSS TERRY to: BRIAN KIEHNAU (Rcvd) subject: R: R: STATIC CONTROL MAT Reply to #2207 cc: JAN HARWELL There is a product that sticks to the lower part of your keyboard that will discharge that static. Can't remember the name of the darn thing, but I could find out. Jan, I wouldn't recommend that setup. Any plastic, unless properly treated during or after manufacturing has the capability to build up a VERY substantial static charge. Other surfaces include the well know carpet AS WELL AS tile floors and untreated concrete floors (although these are usually only of matter if you're working with CMOS or other succeptable devices). Bottom line is if you're not noticing any problems or static discharge not to worry. Brian, touching the system chassis FIRST would probably clear that problem; however, the static discharge strip mentioned above would be better. Russ >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2206 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2216 09-09-88 23:50 (Read 95 times) from: JAN HARWELL to: BRIAN KIEHNAU (Rcvd) subject: R: R: STATIC CONTROL MAT Reply to #2207 Brian, thanks so much for sharing your experience. I have been a little worried but so far this summer have had no obvious static related incidents. My machine is in my basement. Have been running a dehumidifier during the summer and have a humidifier I could run in winter if needed. For the past two winters the built in humidifier in the furnace seemed to provide any necessary humidity. I have a couple of critters so static buildup would be pretty evident quickly. In other homes, I have actually caused sparks by walking across the room and then petting them. Appreciate your taking time to reply. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2206 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2217 09-10-88 00:04 (Read 96 times) from: JAN HARWELL to: RUSS TERRY (Rcvd) subject: R: R: STATIC CONTROL MAT Reply to #2210 Russ, so far no obvious problems. I watch the humidity, etc. pretty carefully since the machine is in the basement. The floor which is concrete is covered by a bargain all-weather, super ugly, carpet. As I replied to Brian, my critters are pretty good measure of static presence. I probably would feel more assured if I installed some minimal static control. Have seen a couple of ads in various magazines offering mats which can be grounded and strips which can be secured to the keyboard. Do you think that a keyboard strip would be enough? I was actually thinking of purchasing a mat for under the processor and one for under the keyboard. This is not a cheap solution and may be overkill. Thought I saw an ad for the keyboard strip for around $18. If you could give me a little more information, it would be very much appreciated. Thanks! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2206 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2220 09-10-88 10:39 (Read 98 times) from: BRIAN KIEHNAU to: JAN HARWELL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: STATIC CONTROL MAT Reply to #2216 Jan One extra thing to keep in mind is that if you do any work inside your machine be vary carefull about static. The amount of charge that it takes to zap a unprotected board is so low that you will not be able to feel it. Brian >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2206 reply #5 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2223 09-10-88 20:39 (Read 101 times) from: ERIK DUFEK to: BRIAN KIEHNAU (Rcvd) subject: R: R: STATIC CONTROL MAT Reply to #2207 cc: JAN HARWELL >>I have a lowered key board also, when it gets dry enough I can >>walk across the carpet and lock up my machine by touching the keyboard. >>This is only a annoyance and has not caused any damage even though >>the static discharge is audible (high voltage) and it has happened >>several times. When I was out in the desert of California I ran a small BBS. One day I came in and the same thing happened to me, an audible spark from finger to keyboard. It also locked up my system. When I rebooted my keyboard would not produce several characters. I traced out the keyboard schematic and discovered that one of the lines on the keyboard matrix chip was dead. For the next 3 days I ran the BBS by typing the missing characters through the Alt/number process. A real nuisance when chatting. When I replaced the chip I installed a socket so if it happened again I could quickly replace the bad chip. But did I install static mats? No. I don't even use a surge suppressor. But for someone who isn't interested in replacing IC's it's probably good insurance. EriK >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2206 reply #6 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2224 09-10-88 22:57 (Read 99 times) from: JAN HARWELL to: BRIAN KIEHNAU (Rcvd) subject: R: R: STATIC CONTROL MAT Reply to #2220 Brian, I think I have already had such an experience. While in the process of trying to install a speed up device on my machine, some pretty weird things happened and the 'ol machine just quit. New socket and new chip later everything was humming along and back to normal. Even though we were very careful, static could be the culprit. I'm not skilled enough to poke around inside the case so I will leave that to others with such a talent! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2206 reply #7 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2225 09-10-88 23:06 (Read 98 times) from: JAN HARWELL to: ERIK DUFEK (Rcvd) subject: R: R: STATIC CONTROL MAT Reply to #2223 Erik, thanks for sharing your experience with me. I guess that sort of supports the 'ol cliche "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" or something like that! Think I will proceed to install some kind of protection. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2206 reply #8 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2230 09-11-88 19:42 (Read 100 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: JAN HARWELL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: STATIC CONTROL MAT Reply to #2216 Jan, My cat serves as a test device for my humidifier. If he gets shocked while being rubbed, I turn it up. Works well. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2206 reply #9 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2232 09-11-88 22:49 (Read 100 times) from: JAN HARWELL to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: STATIC CONTROL MAT Reply to #2230 Glen, my critters are cats (2), too. You are right about that being a pretty good humidity test! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2206 reply #10 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2233 09-11-88 22:52 (Read 100 times) from: RUSS TERRY to: JAN HARWELL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: STATIC CONTROL MAT Reply to #2217 I too have my machine in the basement and don't have any problems with static. If you're not experiencing any static, I wouldn't worry about it. As long as the system is properly grounded (no 3-prong to 2-prong adapters) and the humidity stays up there, you shouldn't need any special control. If you do experience any static discharge when first touching your keyboard I would definately recommend one of the strips. I could check the prices in my company's supplies catalog for you. I get the items at 10% over cost and would be willing to sell it to you for the same. I have been running my present system for over a year with no special static control and haven'y experienced any problems. Russ >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2206 reply #11 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2236 09-11-88 23:48 (Read 105 times) from: JAN HARWELL to: RUSS TERRY (Rcvd) subject: R: R: STATIC CONTROL MAT Reply to #2233 Russ, your comments and those of others are making me feel a little less concerned that I have a severe problem. Still it might not be a bad idea to install at least some minimal antistatic measures. Would appreciate your advising me on cost of product you have available. Thanks! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2206 reply #12 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2243 09-12-88 10:47 (Read 104 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: JAN HARWELL (Rcvd) subject: R: STATIC CONTROL MATS Reply to #2206 You might want to use anti-static mats, properly grounded, or you could perhaps connect wires to the case screws on both pieces, run them to separate (!) 1 meg resistors and ground them to the same (!) point. I uploaded a LONG article I wrote about static protection. It doesn't deal directly with your problem, but it does give some good background data. Scan for "static" >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2206 reply #13 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2244 09-12-88 10:50 (Read 104 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: BRIAN KIEHNAU (Rcvd) subject: R: R: STATIC CONTROL MAT Reply to #2207 If you can lock up a machine by zapping it after a walk across the carpet, you have a path into important parts of your computer and you WILL eventually do permanent damage to your machine. It's only a matter of time. You need an antistatic mat and a "touch me first" grounded button. At the very least, grab something grounded before you touch Mr. Micro. I would ground the housings of the keyboard and he processor thru resistors to the same point, or you're asking for trouble. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2206 reply #14 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2245 09-12-88 10:53 (Read 104 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: RUSS TERRY (Rcvd) subject: R: R: STATIC CONTROL MAT Reply to #2210 Let's emphasize that those "touch me first" medalions or strips are effective only because they have a wire you run to the wall plate screw on an outlet or other suitable ground point (water pipe?). Failure to install properly means failure to protect and false confidence. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2206 reply #15 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2246 09-12-88 10:55 (Read 103 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: JAN HARWELL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: STATIC CONTROL MAT Reply to #2217 Perhaps a static mat under the computer and then ground the keyboard. Then add a touch strip. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2206 reply #16 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2250 09-12-88 20:26 (Read 105 times) from: BRIAN KIEHNAU to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: STATIC CONTROL MAT Reply to #2244 Tom As you may have noticed I have not gotten caught up in the static/voltage spike/noise will kill Mr. Micro stuff. As a rule I have no respect for electronic equipment eventhough I make my living working on same. This goes back to our earlier theard on noise/surge supp. devices and how I can't justify them. For static junk to protect my key board I also can't see spending $50 to save a $50 taiwan key board. As long as there is no traceable problems I will take no precautions is my rule or in laymans terms if it dosnt break don't try to fixit!! Brian >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2206 reply #17 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2257 09-12-88 23:51 (Read 105 times) from: RUSS TERRY to: JAN HARWELL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: STATIC CONTROL MAT Reply to #2236 You're Welcome. I'll get back to you on the items. Russ >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2206 reply #18 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2259 09-12-88 23:57 (Read 104 times) from: RUSS TERRY to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: STATIC CONTROL MAT Reply to #2245 EXACTLY. You know it, I know it, and unfortunately, many others do not. I should have emphasized that point. Thanks for the reminder. Russ >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2206 reply #19 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2272 09-13-88 23:36 (Read 110 times) from: JAN HARWELL to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: STATIC CONTROL MAT Reply to #2243 Tom, had downloaded your "static" file previously. It was thought provoking. That was what me got moving to ask some of you experts out there about my specific situation. Thanks for the reply! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2206 reply #20 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2273 09-13-88 23:40 (Read 110 times) from: JAN HARWELL to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: STATIC CONTROL MAT Reply to #2246 Tom, can you be more specific about what you mean by "ground the keyboard"? Also, do you have any recommendations for products either available locally or via mail order? What kind of costs am I looking at? Appreciate your advice. Thanks! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2206 reply #21 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2274 09-13-88 23:41 (Read 109 times) from: JAN HARWELL to: RUSS TERRY (Rcvd) subject: R: R: STATIC CONTROL MAT Reply to #2257 Will look for your reply. Thanks again for your interest! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2206 reply #22 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2277 09-14-88 18:02 (Read 106 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: JAN HARWELL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: STATIC CONTROL MAT Reply to #2273 What I meant by grounding the keyboard is to run a piece of heavy gauge stranded wire from a screw in the bottom of the keyboard to one of the case screws on the back of the PC. Use crimp-on solder eyes onm both ends- available at one's local Radio Shack, or hardware store. A better option might be a "touch me first" pad. We have the 3M product and the ones made by other people. The 3M piece is $20 and includes a touch strip, cable, and resistor. Easy to install. Anti static mats range in price from 9.95 (2.25" x 4.5") to $60. Come look at the pretty pictures in the catalog- any size (just about) can be had. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2206 reply #23 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2279 09-14-88 20:36 (Read 101 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: STATIC CONTROL MAT Reply to #2277 Tom and Jan, When working on carpet, you might want to consider an anti-static chairmat. They are available from office supply stores and are almost identical to the ones you see in offices all the time. I can't remember if they have a ground or dissapate the static. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2206 reply #24 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2280 09-14-88 21:38 (Read 97 times) from: RUSS TERRY to: JAN HARWELL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: STATIC CONTROL MAT Reply to #2274 Do you have access to a FAX? I copied the pages from the catalog and got the prices I can offer. If not, I will reply with the best description of the product I can muster. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2206 reply #25 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2282 09-14-88 23:16 (Read 98 times) from: JAN HARWELL to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: STATIC CONTROL MAT Reply to #2277 Tom, thanks for the additional information. Will try to get over to see you in the next weekend or so! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2206 reply #26 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2283 09-14-88 23:22 (Read 99 times) from: JAN HARWELL to: RUSS TERRY (Rcvd) subject: R: R: STATIC CONTROL MAT Reply to #2280 Russ, a FAX machine? You bet - we just installed one two days ago. Don't have the number here at home (memory is one of the first things that goes, they say) but as soon as I get to the office on Thurs. I will put a message on EXEC-PC in the private conference providing the tel no. of our FAX. The machine is very near my office and one of my staff is the key operator so I should know as soon as it comes in. Thanks for the offer! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2206 reply #27 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2293 09-16-88 16:34 (Read 95 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: STATIC CONTROL MAT Reply to #2279 cc: JAN HARWELL Ithink we sell chairmats of both varieties, ie dissipative and grounded types. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2206 reply #28 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2301 09-16-88 23:43 (Read 93 times) from: JAN HARWELL to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: STATIC CONTROL MAT Reply to #2293 Tom, if one uses mats under the processor and/or the keyboard or a keyboard pad, how helpful/necessary is a chair mat? Also, I left your business card at work and since I might be out and about this weekend, could you refresh my memory as to where you are located? Thanks! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2206 reply #29 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2339 09-19-88 12:08 (Read 68 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: JAN HARWELL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: STATIC CONTROL MAT Reply to #2301 Sorry not to get back to you before the weekend. Um, I don't really know how critical a chair mat is. If you are careful to grab something large and grounded after yoyu sit down, and before you touch pinky to keyboard, you shouldn't be in trouble. How did you get my card? I don't remember meeting you-- did I? I'd have thought I'd remember that, but my mind doesn't even work as good as my flakey AT. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2206 reply #30 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2342 09-20-88 00:25 (Read 49 times) from: JAN HARWELL to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: STATIC CONTROL MAT Reply to #2339 Tom, could you tell me what your hours are and how to get there from the vicinity of College Ave & 27th? I would like to get over to talk with you and see what is available. Maybe I could make it Sat. after Al's Run if you are open then. We met at the Exec-PC Picnic. That's when you gave me your card. I shall not throw stones as sometimes my mind doesn't even work as good as my ancient but dependable upgraded 5150! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2206 reply #31 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2347 09-20-88 10:29 (Read 31 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: JAN HARWELL subject: R: R: STATIC CONTROL MAT Reply to #2342 Yup. We just went to winter hours, which now included saturdays. The boss seems to be making changes in our after 5 hours, so call first. Mon 8:30 - 5:00 Tue 8:30 - 7:30 Wed 8:30 - 7:30 Thu 8:30 - 5:00 Fri 8:30 - 5:00 Sat 9:00 - 5:00 See Dick when you come if I'm not around. We have a separate catalog for data processing supplies. It would be easier to find than in the main one. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2206 reply #32 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2213 09-09-88 20:25 (Read 100 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: ALL subject: DOS 3.3 BUGS A while back Tom Peters and I had a discussion about the reported bugs in PC Dos 3.3 and I agreed to ask about them. Then I promptly forgot to do it. So... has anyone out there ACTUALLY encountered any of the reported bugs? If so, aould you care to enlighten us as to just what the bugs was, what the symptoms were, and what if any damage was done. I have heard many reports of all sorts of evil deads being attributed to this version but have been unable to locate anyone who has actually experienced them. I would appreciate any response from anyone who has, and I'm sure that many others would as well. Thanks in advance... -[Steve]- --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2219 09-10-88 09:27 (Read 100 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: DOS 3.3 BUGS Reply to #2213 Steve, I'm running DOS 3.3 on a PS/2 50Z at my office. During its first week of life, I had done some experimentation with various entries in my AUTOEXEC (notably, changing the PROMPT command). Immediately thereafter, I tried to copy some files from a 3.5" floppy to the hard drive and got some kind of bad sector or sector not recognized message (can't recall which one). I thought I had a bad diskette, so I took the diskette to another 50Z and had absolutely no problem reading it. I couldn't even do a DIR on my 50Z. I rebooted and the problem went away. A little research led me to a .BAT file distributed by IBM which described various disk-related problems with 3.3. They pointed me to DASDDRVR.SYS as a solution. I added that driver to my CONFIG and have had no problems since. That doesn't necessarily mean that that action precluded problems, I just haven't had any since. I should note that the problems were unique to the PS/2. I'm running 3.3 on my AT at home and we're running 3.3 on PS/2 30s and 50Zs at the office with no problems. Like you, I'm wondering where all of the alleged 3.3 bugs are. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2213 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2222 09-10-88 20:34 (Read 101 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: JOE VINCENT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DOS 3.3 BUGS Reply to #2219 Joe, Thanks for the input. As I understood it, the DASDDRVR.SYS was only for use on PS/2's with non-blue drives. But if it works, what the heck. Maybe I misread the info. Anyway, I hope someone can shed some light on just what we should expect from the 3.3 version, 'cause the things that are being said about 4.0 are far more frightening than anything I have heard about 3.3! Anyone have anything else to add? -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2213 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2229 09-11-88 12:30 (Read 105 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DOS 3.3 BUGS Reply to #2222 Yes, the news about 4.0 is scary and anticlimactic. I was looking forward to using > 32MB drives without either partitioning or using non-blue device drivers. Now, I learn that there are incompatibility problems with some software I use and moving to 4.0 is a "burn your bridges" conversion, once drives are formatted for >32MB as a single drive. <sigh> I'll wait for 4.01 or 4.1 or 4.2 -- whatever. BTW, the .BAT files from IBM didn't mention that the DASDDRVR.SYS was intended to address problems with non-blue drives only. The problems appeared to be generic. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2213 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2231 09-11-88 20:55 (Read 101 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: JOE VINCENT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DOS 3.3 BUGS Reply to #2229 Joe, Right you are. In fact, I went back and looked at them after I left that message. I seem to remember seeing that in a file listing on some BBS but it was obviously wrong. The .bat did say that it was specific to the PS/2's, however. I never did use it or find a need to try on my XT clown. :-) -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2213 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2239 09-12-88 07:10 (Read 108 times) from: STEVE MORGAN to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DOS 3.3 BUGS Reply to #2231 Now the only problems I had with DOS 3.3 is I got a ECC error on my hard disks using the HDtest program (Jim Bracking?) I went back to 3.2 and the errors went away. On both versions once in a while I can't format disketts. I use PC Tools and it formats the disks fine (floppies). I'm using a Columbia 1600-1 expanded for an excuse as a computer.. Steve Morgan >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2213 reply #5 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2241 09-12-88 10:40 (Read 108 times) from: GEORGE KOFMAN to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: DOS 3.3 BUGS Reply to #2213 -[Steve]-, I've been using PC-DOS 3.3 on two IBM MOD 30's for the last year or so. Never had any problems. I've also been using Compaq DOS 3.31 on a Compaq 286-12 and a 386-16 clone. As far as non-IBM equipment goes, I prefer Compaq DOS. I had a problem with one Clipper-compiled dbaseiii program under PC-DOS 3.3. The problem went away under Compaq DOS 3.31, but that was on a non-IBM box. BTW, one guy here had diskette formatting problems on his MOD 60 (DOS 3.3). It seemed as though it could only format one 3.5" floppy at a time, even if you asked for another floppy. But that was the bug with DOS. All the software that we run here is Hard Disk-based, backup is done with tape, so we don't use floppies that often. Hope this helps. If you have any questions, just yell. George M. Kofman. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2213 reply #6 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2249 09-12-88 20:23 (Read 110 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: STEVE MORGAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DOS 3.3 BUGS Reply to #2239 Steve, Thanks! I'm going to compile a list of the replies I get here and see if I can somehow test to confirm them. Your input is appreciated. The floppy format problem doesn't seem to be related, if I read it right, since it happens with 3.2 as well as 3.3 .... I had a problem formatting 1.4m disks under 3.3 for a while, but it was a hardware problem. Not fair to blame it on *any* DOS version. Thanks again. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2213 reply #7 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2251 09-12-88 20:31 (Read 110 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: GEORGE KOFMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DOS 3.3 BUGS Reply to #2241 George, Thanks to you as well. I also have never had any DOS related problems. The 1.4m floppy format thing was supposed to be fixed by the DASDDRVR.sys thing, as I recall. But I never found a need for it I have heard many good things about Compac 3.31 but have not actually seen it. I always prefer an MS authored (or fixed) DOS, but I got a GREAT deal on PC 3.3 so I went for it. Haven't had a reason to be sorry, *yet*! But from all the reports I've heard, I'd expect my clown to have exploded by now! Thanks again, I'll add your comments to the list. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2213 reply #8 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2275 09-14-88 05:37 (Read 114 times) from: STEVE MORGAN to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DOS 3.3 BUGS Reply to #2249 STEVE, I wish I could use DOS 3.1, but my Columbia won't boot it. The floppy format problem isn't specific to DOS 3.3, but version 3.0 never had problems formating floppies. I just think it is strange that PC Tools will format floppies when DOS won't. Steve Morgan >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2213 reply #9 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2276 09-14-88 07:13 (Read 114 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: STEVE MORGAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DOS 3.3 BUGS Reply to #2275 Steve, This floppy format business IS strange! I had a setup in my XT clone where PCTools format was the only way I could format 1.$m floppies. I changed controllers and now it won't, but DOS format will where it would not before. Who can figure it... -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2213 reply #10 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2235 09-11-88 23:06 (Read 101 times) from: BOB ARING to: ALL subject: ATARI 1025 PRINTER I have a friend who has an Atari 1025 printer which he would to use on a PC. The printer has a 13 pin serial connector on the back (the manual defined it as "serial"). Is there anybody out there who knows if this can be done? Any help would be appreciated. Bob Aring --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2247 09-12-88 11:07 (Read 104 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: BOB ARING (Rcvd) subject: R: ATARI 1025 PRINTER Reply to #2235 Yeah, sure, another one of those questions where the guy is embarrased to ask him self, so he makes up a "friend" who has an atari printer.... ...just kidding. You need to find something in the printer manual that gives the speed, or baud rate, the printer runs at. Not print speed, mind you, but handshake speed. Does the manual list any pin numbers and signal names? If not, you could be cooked. You could I suppose open it up and trace the wires from the 1488 and 1489 chips. Anything connected to the one type is an input and anything connected to the other is an output, for handshake or whatever. I can't remember which is which. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2235 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2255 09-12-88 23:02 (Read 108 times) from: BOB ARING to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: ATARI 1025 PRINTER Reply to #2247 Tom, Well, this friend actually has a whole system that he bought, before I knew him. I have a whole series of other items that I've purchased that I have to chalk up to a great learning experience. (Anybody want to buy some land in Arkansas??) - (Come to think of it, I should trade him the land for the Atari system - even up.) >> If not, you could be cooked. How about well roasted?? The manual is a beautiful example of four color reproduction that tells one: a) How to plug device into wall. b) How to plug device into disk drive (runs on a daisy chain) c) How to turn it on You get the idea.... I'm going to suggest that he use my printer for his project. It's just sitting around gathering dust right now. Thanks anyway for the answer. Bob Aring >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2235 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2240 09-12-88 10:35 (Read 108 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: ALL subject: DISK CONTROLLER Anybody know a good hard disk controller for XT's that can have radically difrernt drives as drives 0 and 1? I have a Q540, 512 tracks by 8 heads, that I want as drive 1 and a ST-225 that I want as drive 1. I have an older OMTI controller, model 5510, but the BIOS on it seems to require identical drives. Using a WD controller results in Ontrack saying "drive not connected" for drive 1, altho it sees drive 0. The best would be a jumperless controller, that can have to head and track count entered in at the keyboard, yes? --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2254 09-12-88 22:31 (Read 110 times) from: JEFFREY HOWELL to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: DISK CONTROLLER Reply to #2240 TOM, . Have you tried a WD with the SuperROM, I believe that will allow you to enter the drive paramaters when you format the disks. I'm using an old Adaptec 2007 upgraded to a 2010 with a ROM upgrade that will do what you want, but, I don't know where to find another. Optionally you could use Disk Manager to do what you are after (you don't have to use it to add/or divide drives, it will write a boot record that the driver reads), but, you will have to put up with loading a driver. . JEFFREY >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2240 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2265 09-13-88 11:09 (Read 113 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: JEFFREY HOWELL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DISK CONTROLLER Reply to #2254 Yah, Jeff, I tried my OMTI controller, along with DM by OnTrack. No good. I then called SMS OMTI and they told me to call their BBS and down load some programs. I did. No good. I'll see If I can find a WD with SuperROM and give it a try. Seems to me I did try some WD controller, tho. Maybe I tried w/o ontrack. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2240 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2310 09-17-88 09:59 (Read 96 times) from: CRAIG BAKER to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: DISK CONTROLLER Reply to #2240 WD XTGEN and WX2 controllers both allow you to specify 2 drives with unrelated characteristics. Have done so on several occasions. If you use Disk Mangler to do the drive, it can NOT be used to do the low level format, because it will say the the controller parameters cannot be overridden. Just do the LL format with debug, (allows you to put in bad track info as well), and then use DM to do the preparation and volume chopping if you need to. I've combined ST225 and Min6085 drives this way, and two more dissimilar drives would be hard to find! Craig, Sysop Pinecliffe (303)4447073. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2240 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2311 09-17-88 10:01 (Read 94 times) from: CRAIG BAKER to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: DISK CONTROLLER Reply to #2240 Oh, forgot to add. In proper entrepreneurial spirit, I'll sell you the XTGEN controller for $53 plus shipping (6% over wholesale). >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2240 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2323 09-17-88 22:53 (Read 97 times) from: NICK KEES to: CRAIG BAKER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DISK CONTROLLER Reply to #2310 Well, sure, the ST225 and the Min6085 have different numbers of heads and cylinders, but both are MFM drives. I think the original question related to whether it was possible to run an MFM drive and an RLL drive off the same controller. Doesn't the Adaptec 2072 have that ability, with proper jumper settings? Nick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2240 reply #5 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2331 09-18-88 10:39 (Read 95 times) from: CRAIG BAKER to: NICK KEES subject: R: R: DISK CONTROLLER Reply to #2323 There are a couple of controllers that DO allow either (not sure about both) RLL & MFM. Dont know the 2072, but I'll check on the 2372 (Nice controller). >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2240 reply #6 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2340 09-19-88 12:11 (Read 66 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: CRAIG BAKER subject: R: R: DISK CONTROLLER Reply to #2311 I have some WD superbios ROMS comming in to update my WX2 controllers, so I can enter the parameters manually. What is special about the XTGEN controller, what features do it have? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2240 reply #7 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2248 09-12-88 20:06 (Read 103 times) from: JAY SCHLUETER to: ALL subject: AST SIX PACK PREMIUM Here's the problem I'm encountering, I want to utilize the rs232 port on the ast six pack premium eems board. With the enclosed instructions I cannot make heads or tails on how to accomplish this. I want it to be used as com port 2. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2256 09-12-88 23:49 (Read 112 times) from: RUSS TERRY to: ALL subject: 3.5 HELP SOLVED cc: STEVE MCCRYSTAL Thanks to all those who replied to my need for help but I have solved the problem. It WAS the pinouts AND Driver.sys incompatability that was the culprit. Please read on if you would like the info to convert a 3.5 ext. The pinouts for converting an IBM external 3.5" 720k drive with a TYPE 2 interface cable (power pigtail) to an internal dual 17-pin (34-pin) edge connector are: Drive DB37 17x2 Adapter ---------------------------- conn. Lands ----------------------------- Unused 1-5 (1-4 are POWER and are inserted in the DB37 but not connected. Pin 5 is wired back to the drive but is not used. ISOLATE AND COVER THESE LEADS! 2,4,6 Unused Index Out 6 --> 8 Index In Motor Enable C In 7 <-- 16 Motor Enable B Out Drive Select D In(not wired) 8 Drive Select C In 9 <-- 12 Drive Select B Out Motor Enable D In(not wired) 10 Direction(Stepper Motor) In 11 <-- 18 Direction(stepper motor) Out Step Pulse In 12 <-- 20 Step Pulse Out Write Data In 13 <-- 22 Write Data Out Write Enable In 14 <-- 24 Write Enable Out Track 0 Out 15 --> 26 Track 0 In Write Protect Out 16 --> 28 Write Protect In Read Data Out 17 --> 30 Read Data In Select Head 1 In 18 <-- 32 Select Head 1 Out Ground 19-33 1-33 Ground This pin configuration will allow the use of the 3.5" drive as either A: or B: in the same manner as connecting 5.25" drives. (Twist goes on A: drive). YOU MUST PUT DRIVPARM=/D:n /F:n IN YOUR CONFIG.SYS where n=drive # i/e: 1=A: 2=B: and /n= form factor, 2 being for a 720k drive ***** Device=Driver.sys WILL NOT work! ***** This conversion WORKS! I am using it now and have verified the drive operation as both A: and B: depending on which cable connector it is attached to. It causes no problems with the 5.25" 360k I also have installed. I HAVE NOT tried to boot from the 3.5 as drive A:, but if the config.sys is on the boot disk it shoiuld work. I'm too tired of this thing to check it out. DRIVPARM IS A PARTIALLY UNDOCUMENTED INTERNAL DOS 3.2 COMMAND, I THINK IT WAS DROPPED IN 3.3. Russ --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2264 09-13-88 06:36 (Read 111 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: RUSS TERRY (Rcvd) subject: R: 3.5 HELP SOLVED Reply to #2256 Russ, That's fantastic! Glad you finally did it. And thanks for documenting it so well. That will go in my 'how to do the unlikely' file. As to DRIVPARM, if you are not afraid of patching to acheive a good end, there are a pair of files in Mahoney that document how to activate DRIVPARM in PC-DOS 3.3 and should you want to really gamble, 4.0 as well. I have done it to my 3.3 and it's super! Saves a bunch of memory, and IT WORKS. I, like you, had a problem with DRIVER.SYS not working with my 1.4m drive and it was internal. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2256 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2268 09-13-88 18:14 (Read 110 times) from: RUSS TERRY to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5 HELP SOLVED Reply to #2264 First I'll have to get a hold of PC-DOS 3.3. I have access to MS-DOS 3.3 but will the patches work for it also? Have you had any problems relating to disk/diskette format with 3.3? It doesn't require anything but a A:>SYS C: and copy of command.com does it? I'm sure all the accompaning .com's would have to go too but I've heard of problems with Chkdsk.com on 3.3. Any suggestions? P.S. When do you want your book back? Russ >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2256 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2269 09-13-88 20:22 (Read 110 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: RUSS TERRY (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5 HELP SOLVED Reply to #2268 Russ, The guy who did the patch has told me that it works on MS 3.2 but I have yet to try it. But the fellow hasn't failed me yet. So I assume it will work. But the patch is well documented so if the required bytes don't show up in the right place, just don't put it in. Not sure if I understand your second question. But to put 3.3 on the HD all you need is a sys c: and copy command.com. And, as you said, all the other DOS files will have to be ocpied over as well. I've never had (or heard of) any problems with CHKDSK under 3.3, but there is a problem using it with some partitioned drives, as I recall. Take a look back a few days in this conference and see if you can find a reference to it. The problem may have been with a single partition >32 megs or maybe on PC 4.0, I can't remember and I haven't printed the messages for a few days. Too busy! Are you done with the manual. If so, I could stop and pick it up. If not, it's not a problem. I don't use it EVERY day! -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2256 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2270 09-13-88 21:09 (Read 112 times) from: RUSS TERRY to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5 HELP SOLVED Reply to #2269 Yes, I'm done with it, give me a call at work before you stop to get it so I can make sure to be there. Thanks again for all your help Steve. Russ >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2256 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2278 09-14-88 19:47 (Read 102 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: RUSS TERRY (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5 HELP SOLVED Reply to #2270 Russ, I tried to do that today. Unfortunately, I filed your number under 'don't loose this under any circumstances'. Now I can't find it! Could you leave it for me again? Thanks. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2256 reply #5 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2285 09-15-88 12:58 (Read 98 times) from: GEORGE HOFFMAN to: RUSS TERRY (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5 HELP SOLVED Reply to #2268 ms-dos 3.3 requires no modifications for drivparm (i.e. microsoft hooked the code back up). That's why i use it. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2256 reply #6 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2288 09-15-88 20:29 (Read 101 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: GEORGE HOFFMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5 HELP SOLVED Reply to #2285 George, Now that's what I wanted to hear. Thanks! -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2256 reply #7 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2290 09-15-88 22:25 (Read 99 times) from: RUSS TERRY to: GEORGE HOFFMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: 3.5 HELP SOLVED Reply to #2285 Thanks for the info. I've been considering going to 3.3 but after a long bout with the 3.5 conversion, I might wait a while before tackling it. It never goes easy it seems. Russ >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2256 reply #8 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2261 09-13-88 01:29 (Read 107 times) from: STEVE RUSTON to: ALL subject: IBM PC BIOS UPGRADE. Dose Anyone Out The Know Wher I Can Get A BIOS Rom Upgrade For An Origin- al IBM 64k PC?? AS I cant Run EGA or Put In A 386 With The 27th Oct 82 Bios That I Have. If Anyone Can Then Please Give me Full Details. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2262 09-13-88 01:38 (Read 109 times) from: JEFFREY HOWELL to: STEVE RUSTON (Rcvd) subject: R: IBM PC BIOS UPGRADE. Reply to #2261 STEVE, . One source of the upgrade BIOS ROM (pn MK36C35N-4) is: . HI TECH ELECTRONICS . 7686 ST. CLAIR C. . MENTOR, OHIO 44060 . 216/951-1884 . They list the price as $25. I have a couple of other sources, but, they want about $39 for the BIOS. I would suggest picking one up quick if you are contemplating changing out your old BIOS, as IBM has discontinued this item and they will soon become real scarce. . JEFFREY HOWELL >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2261 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2263 09-13-88 02:01 (Read 108 times) from: STEVE RUSTON to: JEFFREY HOWELL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: IBM PC BIOS UPGRAD Reply to #2262 tHANK YOU For The Information, It Will get me Out Of A Tricky Problem I did'nt Expect Such A quick Reply!! But Thanks Again....... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2261 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2266 09-13-88 11:18 (Read 121 times) from: PAUL MANKUS to: ALL subject: NO SLOT CLOCK HELP!!!! I HAVE A TANDON XT COMPATABLE WITH A SEAGATE RLL HARD DRIVE 30 MG. IT WOULD NOT FORMAT WITH THE TANDON DOS BUT WOULD WITH MICROSOFT DOS BUT... IT CANNOT FIND MY NO SLOT CLOCK. IT WAS ABLE TO FIND THE CLOCK BEFORE I INSTALLED THE NEW DRIVE. THE MANUFACTURER HAS NO RECOMMENDATIONS ON HOW TO AVOID THIS DELEMMA. THE ERROR I GET FROM THE GET CLOCK PROGRAM READS NO REAL TIME CLOCK INSTALLED. ANY SUGGESTIONS WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED. THANKS. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2267 09-13-88 13:05 (Read 110 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: ALL subject: HELP: SYS360/PC XFER 7I have a client who like to move some documents from the system 36 to their PC. She thinks they are displaywrite documents. I don't really care- I can do the file convert once I get the file physically on an IBM PC floppy. Can a System 36 write a PC floppy, or is there a file transfer facility built in? --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2284 09-15-88 11:29 (Read 98 times) from: PHIL PUCCI to: ALL subject: COMPAQ PARTS I am looking for an alternate source for COMPAQ and COMPAQ compatible hardware replacement parts. About one year ago, I saw a company (advertised in a computer-related periodical) which stated that they were a source for COMPAQ parts (as well as other well known computer manufacturers). Unfortunately, I have not been able to locate this advertisement. Please leave me a message (here) if you can offer any assistance. Thank you, Phil Pucci Exec-PC 414/964-5160 C$I 71001,3613 --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2286 09-15-88 18:26 (Read 95 times) from: RICK PORUBCAN to: ALL subject: CALL BACK MODEMS Does anyone know of any modems that have call back capability on their own? There used to be quite a few manufacturers, but most have dropped call back models. The one I'm looking for does not need to store many numbers, at most maybe 10 to 20. Also has anybody had any experience using portable computers with cellular phones? Thanks in advance Rick --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2291 09-15-88 23:12 (Read 96 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: RICK PORUBCAN (Rcvd) subject: R: CALL BACK MODEMS Reply to #2286 I believe Black Box sells call back modems and front ends to modems. You will pay big $$$ from these folks, but from what products we have from them it seems to justify it. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2286 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2292 09-16-88 01:09 (Read 94 times) from: RICK PORUBCAN to: THOMAS ATKINSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: CALL BACK MODEMS Reply to #2291 Thanks alot! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2286 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2287 09-15-88 19:26 (Read 96 times) from: DON SYLVESTER to: ALL subject: EPSON EQ II & MULTITASK I have a EPSON Equity II PC running under DOS 3.1. I have been trying to use a multitasking software like Double Dos and Omniview 4.0 so that I can run my modem and do other things during downloads. My problem is that my EPSON won't respond to the hotkeys of these programs. Other programs like Software Carousel and ALT work just fine as does Sidekick and Prokey. My EPSON repair dealer worked with EPSON and upgraded my ROM to Ver 1.11 and the motherboard to Ver. 3, but still no luck. Epson seems to have given up. I know that the software is ok since it works on my WYSE pc at work. Can anyone help me with a solution, or is this just an Epson incompatibility problem? --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2289 09-15-88 21:39 (Read 104 times) from: MIKE CODY to: ALL subject: PERSTOR & AWESOME I/O To Whom may have any answers: I have a few questions about PerStor Controller Cards. a. Do they increase RLL encoded drives. In other words how much space can I expect to gain on an ST-238? b. Are the capable of controller more than 1 drive and if so, do the drives have to be identical..ie can they contol a ST-238 and a ST-277....? c. Do these controllers require a 16 bit slot or 8 bit? d. How do they compare in speed of Xfer..to a RLL card? e. Do you know how they handle patitioning. Do they work under Ontrack or Dos 3.3? In general I am interested for myself and couple of customers. I have a an ST-238 and ST-277 runing with a RLL card on my system, and would like to stick with half height drives in my new AT class system. I have only 3 drive bays, and would perfer not to go external. Hence if I can get 80 megs or so out of my ST-277 or maybe 90 megs out of a 60meg half hieght, I will go that route. If I should go external full hieght, I will probably use an ST-4096. What kind of results could I expect with the Perstor on it? Also I have a customer with a ST 4096 in his server. He could use the space does the Perstor run under Novell? Sorry for the long winded rhetoric. But Lastly: In reference to the above questions..does anyone out there know anything about the Awesome I/O controller card in regards to the above questions.... Thanx ... Mike Cody Home Plate BBS 313-385-9969 Port Huron, Mi --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2312 09-17-88 10:20 (Read 91 times) from: CRAIG BAKER to: MIKE CODY (Rcvd) subject: R: PERSTOR & AWESOME I/O Reply to #2289 Perstor information: They have 2 models the 180 and the 200 series. 180 series write 31 sectors per track (unlike MFM at 17 or RLL at 27). 200 series writes 34 sectors per track. Both controllers are 8 bit cards, suitable for both XT and AT, (but with different roms for each). They are table driven as far as the drive types, and different drives may be attached (as long as both are on the same table). the 200 series last I heard was only available as OEM, and was not fully debugged. 180 series is solid. Have one on my BBS and have run it for 2 years, no problems. It increases drive size by app. 90%. Seagates can be handled, but I would be leary of reliable operation, just due to poor quality that Seagate has been turning out for last year. The Perstor has its own low level formatting software, and Ontrack, Vfeature, DOS work fine. I have a Miniscribe 6085 and get 130Mb formmatted from the drive. Perstor is more tolerant than RLL, and should (in theory) work with ANY drive. Cost (from me, if I remember right off top of head) is about $210. I'll check the price, but my price to you guys here is 6% above wholesale... Oh -- Perstore is HD Only controller, but will coexist with any other controller in an AT, and if its the only one, you tell Setup that there is NO drive attached.... Craig, sysop Pinecliffe (303)4447073. Voice=BBS-2. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2289 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2318 09-17-88 13:35 (Read 91 times) from: MIKE CODY to: CRAIG BAKER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PERSTOR & AWESOME Reply to #2312 Thanx Craig...this the info I was looking for. I have just recieved a MS 6085 and had decided to use it on my own upgrader. I stilll will ust teh 4096 sg though for my customer. It's one of them coporate types that insist on certain models and they only use SEGATE. Appreciated the input.. _ _ _ __ ' ) ) ) / / ) / / / / o /_ _ / ______/ __ , / ' (_<_/ <_</ (__/ (_) (_/_/ (_/_ / ' Sysop of Home Plate Another Wildcat BBS 313-385-9969 7/24 3/12/24/9600 MNP 5 HST Call Port Huron,MI.... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2289 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2330 09-18-88 10:37 (Read 90 times) from: CRAIG BAKER to: MIKE CODY (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PERSTOR & AWESOME Reply to #2318 Alas, I know the type all too well. Good luck. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2289 reply #3 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2294 09-16-88 16:37 (Read 95 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: JIM CAMPOLO (Rcvd) subject: BAD TK 0? Regarding your MicroSci 10 mb drive: If track 0 is TRULY bad, chuck the drive in the trash. The bad track sparing and partition table live there, and some boot information too, I think. Nothing can be done for a drive that has a bad track 0. BUT, it's more likely that you aren't hooked up right, rather than having a real dead track 0. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2299 09-16-88 20:43 (Read 95 times) from: RUSS TERRY to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: BAD TK 0? Reply to #2294 cc: JIM CAMPOLO Jim, DO NOT throw away that drive even if track 0 IS bad. Use Disk Manager to partition the drive with the second partition starting at track 1 and format ONLY that partition. It will not of course be able to be a boot drive, but can serve as a second drive. I think I have a text file laying around somwhere that goes into more detail on this. If you would like, I could dig it up. Russ >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2294 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2313 09-17-88 10:26 (Read 94 times) from: CRAIG BAKER to: RUSS TERRY (Rcvd) subject: R: R: BAD TK 0? Reply to #2299 I second the motion. If track 0 is bad on a drive, you can often make it bootable and have it WORK, by having Dos (or whomever) start with DOS partition at track 1. All that is required for Bootability is to have Track 0 Head 0 Sector 0 READ correctly. Making the partition start at 1 means that the other sectors on Tr 0 Hd 0 are not necessary. If drive fails to boot when you have done this, then have partition start at 1, and make it drive D in your system. A good hard drive should not be pitched just because track 0 cannot be read. Unless its a Seagate. (Only joking....maybe). Even if the drive has head N dead, the drive can be configured with WD controllers (as well as others) to be a N-1 Head drive with the correct # cyls. Of course if N=0 drive cannot be used, and if N=1 the drive will be on the small side. But if you have and 8 head drive and head 6 is dead, you still have usuable storage here!. Craig, sysop pinecliffe. 303 444 7073. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2294 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2319 09-17-88 15:33 (Read 93 times) from: RUSS TERRY to: CRAIG BAKER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: BAD TK 0? Reply to #2313 My point exactly. I also saw something about using CPM to format the drive partition as bootable even with track 0 bad (read AND write). I'll have to dig up the file and U/L it if it isn't on here. It's called something like TRK0BAD.ARC I have an OLD IBM 40 meg drive that has noisy bearings and a bad head, but I formatted it out to 32m and will use it until it totally crashes. Hey, it's got a 30msec access time and has given me NO problems since I got it running two months ago. No since in trashing it eh? Russ >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2294 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2338 09-19-88 12:05 (Read 67 times) from: TOM PETERS (LEADER) to: RUSS TERRY (Rcvd) subject: R: R: BAD TK 0? Reply to #2299 Do you think he can really get away with that? Using Disk Manager to partition the drive with a "second" partition beginning at track 1 is clever, but doesn't the partition table live at track 0? can disk manager even put a partition table on the drive? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2294 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2341 09-19-88 22:55 (Read 55 times) from: RUSS TERRY to: TOM PETERS (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: BAD TK 0? Reply to #2338 Let me see if I can dig up that *&^$%*^% file and upload it. Let me see? (why oh why do I keep putting off cataloging my disk!) Check back later Tom. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2294 reply #5 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2344 09-20-88 07:30 (Read 41 times) from: JIM CAMPOLO to: RUSS TERRY (Rcvd) subject: R: R: BAD TK 0? Reply to #2299 Thanks for all of the help, I ended up getting the drive up using hdtest and reformatting and testing several formats. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2294 reply #6 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2295 09-16-88 19:19 (Read 98 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: ALL subject: DOS? I'd like to take a survey of the various different DOS versions in use by Exec-PC subscribers. 1)What release of DOS are you currently using? 2)PC-MS-Compaq-System specific(Blue Chip,etc.)? 3)Is it official? Bootleg? 4)Have you had any problems with it, or have you changed DOS because of problems? I am currently using MSDOS3.20. I bought Microsoft's DOS for the BlueChip and had no problems with it, but am running a vanilla version for a reason no longer relevant. If you're shy, leave a response in PRIVATE. Any messages there will go no further, although I intend to share the overall numbers with the board. Thanks! --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2296 09-16-88 19:38 (Read 92 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: DOS? Reply to #2295 1. PC DOS 3.3, both at home and on all machines at the office. 2. True-blue IBM PC DOS. 3. All copies purchased, both at home and at the office. 4. Once I installed DASDDRVR.SYS (IBM's official "fix"), DASD-related problem went away on office PS/2 50Z. No other problems on PS/2s and never any problem on PC/AT at home. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2295 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2298 09-16-88 20:41 (Read 93 times) from: STEVE SHATTUCK to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: DOS? Reply to #2295 David, Tandy MS-DOS 3.20, official version, absolutely no problems with a very extensive configuration that includes COM1, COM2, COM4, 20meg HD, 40Meg HD, 10+10 Bernouli box, Oki Laserline 6 Printer, Courier 2400, Kurta Series I Digitizer, BSR Home Controller and 2Megs memory. Steve >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2295 reply #2 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2300 09-16-88 20:46 (Read 99 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: DOS? Reply to #2295 Dave, I am using a True Blue version of DOS 3.3, and it is a legit copy from IBM. I have had exactly zero problems with it that could be attributed to the DOS itself. I originally upgraded to it just for the CALL batch command, and have since found many other features that make the move worthwhile, like the fastopen filename cache to name just one. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2295 reply #3 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2302 09-17-88 00:03 (Read 96 times) from: NICK KEES to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: DOS? Reply to #2295 IBM PC-DOS, on clones all around. Version 3.3 at home because I have an ST-251 and I'd rather not run a device driver if DOS will handle the whole drive, even though I DO set up two partitions. Just switched over from 3.1 only little while ago. In that same vein, still using PC-DOS 3.1 at the office because I haven't taken time to make the switchover yet while at the office. No problems with either one yet (knock on wood). Nick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2295 reply #4 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2303 09-17-88 02:25 (Read 94 times) from: STEVE MORGAN to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: DOS? Reply to #2295 I'm using DOS 3.2 version 3.3 doesn't seems to work as well for me. I'm using two legit copies on a DTK 12 Mhz AT and Columbia 1600-1 expanded to run two hard disks. 3.2 seems to fill my needs and I don't have a need for 3 1/2" floppies yet. Steve Morgan >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2295 reply #5 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2305 09-17-88 09:17 (Read 94 times) from: AL HANSEN to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: DOS? Reply to #2295 David, I support various machines, so I'll just comment on the ones I use most, or personally own. (All of our PS/2's run PC DOS 3.3 with the official IBM patch device driver) . 1. Compaq 386S - Compaq DOS 3.31 IBM PS/2 80 - PC DOS 4.0 IMB Portable PC - PC DOS 3.3 2. As stated above. 3. All are legit copies, or upgrades from previous versions of PC DOS. 4. Problems with 3.31 and 4.0, FAT related as in Norton Utils, and some shareware stuff. Nothing that I can't live with until the vendor offers new version. I really don't know why we're having such an uproar over DOS 4.0, its got the same problems I have with Compaq 3.31. AL -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2295 reply #6 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2315 09-17-88 11:17 (Read 95 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: NICK KEES (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DOS? Reply to #2302 I just tried ILEAV16 and was told that I had: FIRST PHYSICAL DRIVE: 980 cylinders, 5 heads, 0 sectors per track Maximum capacity:0.0 Megabytes SECOND PHYSICAL DRIVE: 331 cylinders, 189 heads, 112 sectors per track Maximum capacity:3587.4 Megabytes Do you think Mahoney could use a 3587.4meg disk? When the program asked me which disk I wanted to process, I said the second and I got a response that ILEAVE16 would only work with 17 sectors per track. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2295 reply #7 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2316 09-17-88 11:22 (Read 94 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: ALL subject: DOS? Reply to #2315 Thanks for all the responses so far and keep them coming! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2295 reply #8 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2320 09-17-88 21:16 (Read 99 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DOS? Reply to #2315 David, Those results are not uncommon with ILEAVE! I had the same type of snafu when I tried it, that's one reason I use OPTIMIZE. It works! But to avoid seeming to bad-mouth ILEAVE, I have avoided saying that too loudly, UNTIL NOW! But since you pointed out the obvious, I don't feel too bad about backing you up... -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2295 reply #9 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2321 09-17-88 22:09 (Read 100 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: DOS? Reply to #2295 PC-DOS 3.3 and Tech Ref, paid in full, only problem that may be due to speed card is the 301 bad key message at times on reboot, even after loading Dasddrvr.sys. Bought it because my wife wanted me to (ha)... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2295 reply #10 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2322 09-17-88 22:46 (Read 98 times) from: NICK KEES to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DOS? Reply to #2315 Hey, any drive with 189 heads has got to be a doozy. Seriously, ILEAVE must have problems with RLL drives. I never realized that. I've only used it with MFM drives. Sorry you wasted your time. Nick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2295 reply #11 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2324 09-17-88 23:04 (Read 97 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DOS? Reply to #2320 The docs with OPTIMISE said that the low level format would destroy data, not move it to RAM. It seemed clear on this, so am I missing something? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2295 reply #12 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2325 09-17-88 23:08 (Read 97 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: NICK KEES subject: R: R: DOS? Reply to #2322 Time is not wasted when something is learned; we learned that ILEAVE and RLL don't get along. No problem(but if ILEAVE really could give a multigigabyte drive...) >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2295 reply #13 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2328 09-18-88 05:14 (Read 94 times) from: JIM HARRY to: THOMAS ATKINSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DOS? Reply to #2321 Tom: The 301 key error is usually from holding down one or more keys too long when doing a CTL-ALT-DEL to reboot rather than being strictly due to the speedup. It will show up more often with the speedup because it gets to that part of the self-test faster. ...Jim... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2295 reply #14 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2329 09-18-88 09:45 (Read 93 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DOS? Reply to #2324 Dave, No, you didn't miss anything. That is how it works. But on the drive I used both on, it was quicker to do a backup, optimize the interleave, and restore the data than it was to "move it to ram" and reformat. By about 2 hours! So I do it that way, since frequent backups are a must anyway it presents no problem. And a lot of folks would have NO backups if it were not for the one they were FORCED to make to use Optimise! But it is my opinion that any program which purports to "reformat the drive without losing data" is an invitation to disaster, ALL of them including SpinRite! I would not even THINK of trying to do it without current full backup. But that is just my opinion ... -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2295 reply #15 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2332 09-18-88 11:42 (Read 93 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: JIM HARRY (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DOS? Reply to #2328 I thought at first the ctrl/alt/del was the problem, only thing is that i use a reboot program that copies autoexec and config to the root, and then the system boots from code. The 301 still shows at times even though the last key touched may have been 5 seconds prior, this is sporadic and not a major problem. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2295 reply #16 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2333 09-18-88 16:50 (Read 92 times) from: PAUL GLANDER to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: DOS? Reply to #2295 David 1) PCDOS 4.0 2) IBMPC-AT (the real thing) 3) Official 4) Problems: a)Memory allocation error Cannot load Command, System halted Go the error after using Autocad, shelling while in ACAD, returning to ACAD and exiting. I couldn't return to the Dosshell without a reboot. After this happened several more times I changed my buffers from 40 to 38. NO PROBLEM ANYMORE. b)Now that Print was installed automaticly, print screen works in some programs where it never worked before. But in basic where I used to do a print screen, it prints to my Panasonic KX-P1090 sideways (and very slow). Mybe I should uninstall Print c)I've been getting quite a few unallocated clusters which never used to happen before unless I would bomb out while in ACAD. d)PCTOOLS Deluxe ver 4.1 must be upgraded to ver 4.3 in order for Mirror to work. I called Central Point and this can be done for $8.00 and an order ref. number , to the registered. e)In the Dosshell all the hidden files are shown. I like to have my hidden files hidden. There should at least be an option. Paul >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2295 reply #17 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2335 09-19-88 00:30 (Read 74 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: DOS? Reply to #2316 David, I use PC-DOS 3.1 at home (upgrade from 2.0) and PC-DOS 3.2 at work. I'm thinking about going to DOS 3.3 at home since I've upgraded to a 64 MB disk and it would handle the partitioning. All copies are legit. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2295 reply #18 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2336 09-19-88 07:27 (Read 71 times) from: BOB BLAIR to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: R: DOS? Reply to #2295 1) IBM PC DOS 3.3 (AT) and 3.1 (XT) 2) IBM PC DOS on IBM AT and IBM XT respectively 3) Both versions official and 3.3 has TECH. REF. added 4) With 3.3 have one software difficulty between Disk Manager (for an ST-251) and Genoa tape backup software as far as partition backups. The problem is not present with 3.1. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2295 reply #19 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2304 09-17-88 02:35 (Read 91 times) from: STEVE MORGAN to: JIM CAMPOLO (Rcvd) subject: BAD TRACK 0 Jim, If you really want to keep the drive there are some good hard disk repair facilities available to you with 5 - 7 day turn around times. Brockway Disk Technologies is mt first choice because they have done excellent work for me. They can be reached at 1 800 322 8234. Another more expensive choice would be Peripheral Repair Corp., Miniscribe refered them to me and they did excellent work on a 3425 and a CMI 6426-S that no one else could fix. They can be reached at 1 818 700 8482. Tom's suggestion should also work as long as you can accept your hard disk not booting. Steve Morgan --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2345 09-20-88 07:34 (Read 39 times) from: JIM CAMPOLO to: STEVE MORGAN subject: R: BAD TRACK 0 Reply to #2304 Thanks for all of the info, I ot the drive up using HDTEST, a very comprehensive hdtest and formatter (LL). >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2304 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2314 09-17-88 10:37 (Read 90 times) from: PAT BIESER to: ALL subject: HARD DISK REPAIR I'm looking for someone to repair old 10, 20 and 30 meg IBM hard disks. Preferably looking in the Wisconsin area. Any information or leads that could help me find someone would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your help guys: Patrick Bieser --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2317 09-17-88 13:12 (Read 90 times) from: STEVE LUNSFORD to: ALL subject: 1984 NEC APC COMPUTER IS THERE ANY WAY TO UPGRADE A 1983-84 NEC APC COMPUTER WITH 128K AND TWO 8" DISK DRIVES. IT USES MSDOS IS AN ORPHAN AN ISNT TOTALLY IBM COMPATIBLE. WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE TO BUY A NEW 8088 TYPE MOTHERBOARD AND REPLACE WHAT WAS THERE WITH IT. WE WOULD UTILIZE WHATEVER PREEXISTING COMPONENTS WE COULD BUT WOULD OBVIOUSLY NEED AT LEAST ONE 5 1/4 DISK DRIVE. WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE TO USE SHAREWARE ETC., AND TRANSFER IT TO THE APC BY A MODEM OR ONE OF THE OTHER TRANSFER DEVICES? IS IT POSSIBLE TO USE PUBLIC DOMAIN SOFTWARE ON THE NEC APC? THANKS FOR ANY HELP! --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2326 09-17-88 23:16 (Read 91 times) from: DAVID BIRCH to: STEVE LUNSFORD subject: R: 1984 NEC APC COMPUTER Reply to #2317 Hope you have better luck than I did on an identical machine ran a special release of MSDOS2.1, but had many problems with hardware and software incompatilities. The owner transferred Norton Utilities to 8" and the system couldn't do any thing with them. The money to upgrade it would buy an AT clone with 512k and Hercules graphics. This is what the owner did. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2317 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2327 09-18-88 00:11 (Read 93 times) from: JAMES IRVING to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: DOS I'm using Zenith DOS 3.1 at home on ZDS 148; I carry the "office" with me while I'm working and use MSDOS 3.2 on a Grid. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2334 09-19-88 00:07 (Read 74 times) from: JAMES IRVING to: DAVID BIRCH (Rcvd) subject: DOS Sorry Dave, but I just saw you wanted to know if the DOS's used were official versions. The answers are yes and yes, respectively. I also have an official, but unused, copy of MSDOS 3.2, originally intended for a Blue Chip computer. Don't ask me why I bought it; found it on clearance at K-Mart (!) for $20 about two years ago. I'll be interested in seeing the results of your survey. --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2337 09-19-88 09:13 (Read 67 times) from: NIGEL GRAY to: ALL subject: TAPE DRIVES Subject: Machines that use DC-300-XL/P Tapes Issue: I have a stack of DC-300-XL/P tapes (unformatted 45mb) that I would like to use rather than trashing! I also have a list of tape drives that use these tapes. My questions to all are: Does anyone know which, if any, of these tape drives are IBM PC/XT/AT compatible? If drives are compatible with IBM, are they still available "new" or should I look to the used market? And, if the used market is the place to look, does anyone have a source? The following is a list of machines that use DC-300-XL/P tapes: Archive: Scorpion #5920, 5945 Sidewinder #9020 Super Sidewinder #9045 Cipher: 540 Series Series 400 Corvus: TLC D.E.I.: EL5/SL5, EL6/SL6 Super Funnel Mini-Qic-Stream III Streaker Emulex: Decathon & Javalon Everex: 4500 XL Fortune: System 1,5,10 IBM: 5100, 5110 5363 6157 NCR: 7200, 9100, 9300 Series 8100, 8130, 8150 Series Tower XD NEC: Astra Series, 5110-001 CT-7700 Series Prime: 4581, 4582 4651, 2250("Rabbit") Siemens: 3309 3951 Sysgen: 11-G-10, 11-G-20 PC 1/0 Subsystem Tallgrass: TG-2200 Tandy: TCS-1000 Televideo: TS-806 TS-816 Texas Instrum't DS-990 Model 4 Explorer, WD-800 3M: DCD-3 (Data Cartridge Drive) Wang Labs: All systems Any info, on any of these, will be greatly appreciated. Please leave message on board or call (voice) 201-724-3897 (8 to 4 EST). \\\\\\\ Nigel Gray /////// --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2343 09-20-88 00:45 (Read 46 times) from: JEFFREY HOWELL to: NIGEL GRAY (Rcvd) subject: R: TAPE DRIVES Reply to #2337 NIGEL, . I have a pair of Tandy TCS 100's, and 4 controller cards in the following computers. Tandy 1200 (highly modified), IBM PC/AT, IBM PC/XT, and IBM PC. I shift the tape drives between the machines regularly with no problems. The nice thing about Tandy's software is that it allows either an image or file-by-file backup. The file -by-file is really nice when you want to transfer info from one machine to another, as an image can only be restored to the exact same configuration. . The Tandy TCS 100 is actually a Techmar unit relabeled and sold to Tandy. If you do set one up and a tape gets to the point that the software/drive tells you the tape is no longer reliable, you might want to use a bulk eraser on it. I have done this several times, and each time was able to reliably use the tapes again. My theory is that as you "format" the tape and write BOT and EOT markers to the tape several times, the drive/controller/software becomes confused and refuses to function with the tape until it is "cleaned". By the way I hereby disclaim any responsibility for a loss of data if you try this - it is only one user's experience. . JEFFREY >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2337 reply #1 conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2346 09-20-88 08:26 (Read 33 times) from: NIGEL GRAY to: JEFFREY HOWELL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: TAPE DRIVES Reply to #2343 Jeffery, Sounds like I have an option to look into. I'll contact Tandy for availability and interface. Thanks for the info and I'll let you in on the results of my findings. \\\\\\\ Nigel Gray /////// >>>>>>>>>> Msg 2337 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2348 09-20-88 12:12 (Read 27 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: ALL subject: TAPE BACKUP What recommendations does everyone have regarding reasonable priced tape backup units. This will be installed in an AT clone. The requirements are: 1) Backup a 32 meg disk to one tape. 2) unattended operation. 3) Individual file restore. 4) Restore to different drive/directory. 5) backup/restore of subtrees. It can have its own controller or use a floppy interface. Speed in not important as the backup will be started and run unattended. Low price is better. thanks, glen --------------- conf: COMPUTER HARDWARE #2349 09-20-88 19:30 (Read 8 times) from: JOHN GRANT to: ALL subject: SLAVES IN 386 I am having problems installing slaves in a Zenith 386. The 386 does not seem to have an open port address in which to install the slaves. Does anyone know what range of addresses may be open and why i can't use 220 hex? --------------- Conf: *HARDWARE* Read messages: <F>orward or <R>everse multiple <N>ew msgs <M>arked msgs (also unread Email) <S>elective on from/to/subject <I>ndividual msgs by # Non-retrieval commands: <L>eave (send) a msg <U>pload msg <D>elete a msg <Z>ip scan & mark <CR> or <Q> to QUIT 376 READ command (FRNMSILUDZQTG, ?=help) -->