The Hacker's Encyclopedia 1998

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Founded By: | _ _______ Guardian Of Time | __ N.I.A. _ ___ ___ Are you on any WAN? are Judge Dredd | ____ ___ ___ ___ ___ you on Bitnet, Internet ------------------+ _____ ___ ___ ___ ___ Compuserve, MCI Mail, \ / ___ ___ ___ ___ ___________ Sprintmail, Applelink, +---------+ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___________ Easynet, MilNet, | 01DEC90 | ___ ______ ___ ___ ___ FidoNet, et al.? | File 67 | ___ _____ ___ ___ ___ If so please drop us a +---------+ ____ _ __ ___ line at ___ _ ___ elisem@nuchat.sccsi.com Other World BBS __ Text Only _ Network Information Access Ignorance, There's No Excuse. Network Thought Machine [3] & SNA Networks [1] Guardian Of Time/Judge Dredd/BBS Community ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "SNA Networks Part I" : Enterprise Systems Journal Judge Dredd SNA Support For Multivendor Environment IBM firmly believes that open, fair competition is the best way to ensure that the full potential of information and communications technologies is realized for the benefit of the customers. As evidence of that belief, IBM offers: - An open network design that encourages SNA attachments w/published interfaces. - Long-standing support for international standards, for example X.21, X.25 and Open Systems Interconnection (OSI). - Practical help to ensure that customers can achieve information network goals. People who need to connect their IBM to non-IBM computer systems require a common method for communicating b/w these systems. Dissimilar hardware & software architectures and data encoding schemes require that the transfer of information b/w these systems be achieved by agreed-on communications procedures. This intelligent exchange of information and programs via process-to-process communications is called 'interoperability'. The method by which information is transferred b/w communicating systems over physical media is referred to as 'connectivity'. The following additions to SNA, support communications in a multivendor enviornment: - OS|/Communications Subsystem (CS) and OSI File Services - IBM's Transmission Control Protocol/Internet Protocol (TCP/IP) for mainframes as well as PC's. - The IBM Series/1 Programmable Communications Co-Processor - SNA Open Communication Archetectures (OCA) - Open Systems Network Support (OSNS) - Open Systems Transport and Session Support (OTSS) - General Teleprocessing Monitor for OSI - OSI X.400 Message Transfer Facility program and the X.400 offerings for DISOSS and PROFS - The IBM Series/1 EDX family of products - The AIX family of products Open Communication Architectures (OCA) The announcement of OCA described the SNA architectures that extend the SNA benefits into mixed IBM and non-IBM networks. Major goals: - Interconnect communications networks - Attach a variety of communications products to and w/in SNA network - Use of public data network facilities - Extend SNA-based services to a wide variety of attached components OSI In 1977, the International Organization for Standardization (ISO) established a framework for standards development to allow communications among systems in a multivendor environment. The definition of these standards led to the creation of an OSI reference model. Implementation of the model or the OSI open system facilitates communications between dissimilar systems which obey a set of communications rules, called protocols, independent of their internal architecture. OSI precisely defines these communication protocols and OSI standards make effective communications among systems possible. IBM is a strong proponent of OSI and has had OSI products since 1985. Its OSI/CS products are designed to work with other vendors' OSI implementations taking into account regional differences between North America, Europe and Japan. IBM OSI/CS products support the OSI protocols as specified in the following OSI profiles: US GOSIP, UK GOSIP, CEN/CENELEC and CEPT. OSI products achieve interoperability through similar conformance to the OSI standards. Conformance testing is done to demonstrate conformity to basic standards or profiles. Interoperability testing is done to ensure that the products of one manufacturer work with the products of other manufacturers. Both are required. Europe is playing a key role in conformance testing through the ECC-sponsored European IT Conformance Testing Services. Similar activities are underway in the US and Japan. IBM has offered an OSI Interoperability Verification Services through the IBM International Network Services (INS) in Europe since 1986. OSI, SAA And SNA By including the OSI protocls into the SAA Common Commmunications Support, IBM is extending the list of SAA software interfaces, conventions and protocols. This builds on the strengths of IBM SNA and SAA architectures to provide application solutions in a mixed SNA/OSI operational environment. Under SAA, SNA and OSI should be viewed as complementary communications protocols. SNA is the primary architecture for IBM-to-IBM networking. However, IBM integrates SNA and OSI into a cohesive network offering which allows the two to coexist and work together. OSI provides communications capabilities to allow customers to build mixed networks using multiple vendors' computing equipment. The OSI products are intended primarily for communications between IBM and non-IBM systems. In supplying OSI products, IBM is committed to providing value beyond conformance with the OSI standards. For example, the OSI/CS for MVS and VM program products provides network management via NetView. The NetView network management product allowss a NetView operator to manage both SNA and OSI networks and to manage both IBM and non-IBM nodes in an OSI network. The OSI/CS also uses the transport and data link control functions provided by the SNA, VTAM and NCP products. This use allows sharing adapters and connections by both SNA and OSI traffic. VTAM and NCP also participate in detecting and forwarding network management information to NetView for OSI systems which they also do for SNA systems. TCP/IP TCP/IP is a set of layered communications protocoles that were defined by DOD (US Department Of Defense) DARPA (Department Advanced Research Project Agencies) and have evolved. TCP/IP provides definitions of connectivity functions for both local and wide area networks. The collection of TCP/IP interconnected networks is known as Internet. Given proper authority, a user on any of these standard TCP/IP networks can communicate to users on any of the other TCP/IP networks. TCP/IP defines higher-level communications applications such as terminal emulation (TELNET), File Transfer Protocol (FTP) and Simple Mail Transfer Protocol (SMTP). TCP/IP implementations may allow connectivity between different vendors' systems but do not provide all the communication functions that a user needs. Each vendor's implementation and the set of functions supported must be compared by the customer to ensure their requirements are met. IBM has a large family of TCP/IP products: - TCP/IP for MVS - TCP/IP for VM - TCP/IP for PC DOS - The AIX family of UNIX products - TCP/IP for OS/400 TCP/IP and SNA TCP/IP and SNA networks can coexist. The ability to interconnect TCP/IP networks over an SNA backbone is one example of that coexistance. Also, users of a TCP/IP network can logon to IBM SNA hosts using the TELNET facility and IBM gateway host with both TCP/IP and SNA installed. Additionally, IBM also provides application gateway function products to facilitate PROFS to SMTP mail transfer. Some customers will use TCP/IP and SNA network coexistence as their multivendor networking solution until the transition from TCP/IP to OSI has occured. TCP/IP and OSI TCP/IP is a layered architecture similar to OSI. Even though there is a varying number of layers in the two architectures, there are three areas in which they have similar functions. At OSI layers one and two, both TCP/IP and OSI support X.25, Token-Ring and Ethernet. At OSI layers three and four, TCP and IP layers perform functions similar to the Transport and Network Layers in OSI. Likewise, the OSI application-to-application functions (OSI layer seven) are comparable. Electronic mail (SMTP to X.400), file transfer (FTP to FTAM) and terminal emulation (TELNET to OSI Virtual Terminal protocol) are comparable in TCP/IP and OSI. In most cases, the OSI protocols are, or will be, richer in function than the TCP/IP equivalent. IBM is committed to supporting OSI standards as they evolve. However, many customers require interconnection solutions today that OSI standards do not yet address. To satisfy those requirements, IBM provides TCP/IP products. TCP/IP systems will eventually migrate to OSI. ISDN - History A different approach of utilizing heterogeneous networks could be based on a newly developed _international_ standard - Integrated Services Digital Network (ISDN). It is a public digital end-to-end telecommunication network supporting multiple services including, but not limited to, voice and data, leased lijne transparent service and so on. ISDN provides digital access to this network, allowing full utilization of the digital transmission over the user access line. ISDN networks are based on a 64Kbps data rate and are intended to supply current voice facilities, existing data services and a large number of new and extended facilities. Requests for these facilities are made on a common and extendable set of signalling protocols. This set of protocols should continue to grow as new facilities are added. Applications requesting high bandwidth services are connected (via the slow speed signal protocol requests) to high bandwidth transparent digital channels. The types of proposed facilities, utilizing ISDN, are basic telephone services, teletex, videotex, facsimile, packed and circuit switched data, electronic mail, transaction services, energy management, remote meter reading, remote alarm services, extended telephone services and enhanced services. The definition of ISDN as a public network does not preclude its use in private network architectures. On the contrary, it has direct relevance and applications to the PBX environment on customer premises. The evolution to ISDN is a natural consequence of the evolution of the telephone network. Originally the telephone system was used exclusively for analog voice transmission, but later these analog signals came into use to provide communication between electronic devices such as alarm systems. The introduction of modems allows a variety of digital services to communicate at a wide range of speeds, while the addiction of new data networks has facilitated the availability of a variety of data processing services. Each of these network services has required the definition of separate interfaces, protocols and lines to the customers' premises. During this time, the telephone network evolved from an entirely analog system to a mixed system including analog and digital components. In addition, high-speed digital trunks and digital switching were introduced. The digitalization of the network has reached customer premises only in some instances. The use of analog signals in the local loop necessitates conversion at the digital exchange (by the network provider) of the analog signal into digital and reverse to deliver it to the other end. In the case of data transmission, the customer must also convert his digital signal to analog prior to placing the signal on the local loop and then reconvert it to digital at the receiving end. The major advantages of using digital technology is end-to-end, high speed digital communication and performance (fast connection time and better bit error rate). Digital end-to-end data communication means a modemless world. So, the integration of voice and data transmission is the most economical solution to network providers and users. Digital voice is an easier format to compact and store to satisfy future office requirements. THe integration of voice and data seems to provide the most manageable and economical solution for the environment of the future, both home and office. ISDN - Principles Of The main feature of the ISDN concept is the support of a wide randge of voice and nonvoice applications in the same network. A key element of service integration for an ISDN is the provision of a range of services using a limited set of connection types and multipurpose user-network interface arrangements. ISDN supports a variety of applications, including both switched and nonswitched connections. Switched connections in an ISDN include both circuit-switched and packet-switched connections and their concatenations. The major motivation for a migration to ISDN is that ISDN will offer more reliable and enhanced services, moxed voice and data, more bandwidth and fewer interfaces than existing telecommunication lines at the same price or lower. ISDN will maximize economy and flexibility. Working toward the goal of ISDN is a worldwide effor steered by the CCITT (Consultative Committe on International Telegraph and Telephone), which initiated the ISDN I Series standardization work. ISDN - Components Of The major components of an ISDN are user-to-network interface, information channels, signalling protocols and communications mode. *User-To-Netork Interfaces There are two user-network interfaces presently defined for ISDN applications -- the basic interface and the primary rate interface. The basic interface provides for network access by either small business or residential users. Its allows for one of three access arrangements: 2B plus D, B plus D or D channels. In each case, the D channel operates at 16Kbps transmission rate and the B channel at 64Kbps. The access capacty provided to end users will depend on subscriber loop transmission capacity. It may vary from country to country. The primary rate interface provides for network access by Private Branch Exchanges (PBX), LAN gateways and other user nodes such as communication controllers and clusters. The primary rate interface is based on existing multiplexing hierarchies (which are 1544Kpbs in Canada, Japan and the US and 2048Kbps in Europe). It can consist of B plus D channels, 23B plus D channels or 30B plus D channels where the total transmission rate for the primary rate interface should not exceed 1535Kpbs (Canada, Japan and US) or 1920Kbps (Europe). The D channel for this interface operates at 64Kbps. *Information Channels ISDN provides two types of channels. One is a user information transfer channel, which carries user information at the transmission rates of the channel. Several rates have already been defined for these channels, also called clear channels: -B Channel -- a 64Kbps channel -H0 Channel -- a 384Kbps channel -H1 Channel -- a 1536Kbps channel in Canada, Japan or US or 1920Kbps Europe The other is the user-network control channel, also called the D channel, carrying mostly control or signalling information between the end user and the network. In some access configurations, packetized user user data may be interleaved with signalling information. In such a case, the D channel becomes a user information channel. Additional channels, at transmission rates ranging from six to 140Mbps, are sometimes referred to as broadhand channels required for a broadhand ISDN. The are also called high bit rate services. *Signalling Protocols Signalling protocols are based on an out-band technique (separate channed) and message-oriented structure evolutionary from High Level Data Link Control (HDLC). Message-oriented signalling allows for the provision of additional/sophisticated functions which may reside either in the network domain or on the user's premises. Signalling protocols have a key characteristic -- they are common channel protocols. Currently, voice and data calls are considered to be separate entities by terminals and networks. Common channel signalling, in contrast, integrates voice and data shcemes. *Communications Modes There are three communications modes possible for user information transfer. Circuit-switched mode provide and end-to-end digital connection at the transmission rate of the selected channel (B or H). The channel may be either transparent (granted integrity of the bit sequence) or suited to a particular application such as telephone service where compression may occur withing the network. Packet-switched mode provides two possibilites for sending user packets: via a user-information channel (B or H) or via the user-to-network control channel channel (the D channel) interleaved with signalling messages. The last, semi-permanten/permanent, refers to a user-information channel (B or H) which uses a preset path through the ISDN network. Both network transmission and switching resources could be used. ISDN - Service Aspects Of ISDN networks will support a wide range of services. The purpose of the Consultative Committee of International Telephone and Telegraph (CCITT) I-Series Recommendations is to provide classifications of the methods for description of such services as well as to give a basis for the definition of the network capabilities required by ISDN. Services supported by ISDN are the communication capabilities made availible to customers by telecommunication service providers. ISDN provides a set of network capabilitites which are difined by standardized communication services to be offered to customers. A service provision by the network provider to a customer connected to an ISDN may cover all or part of the means required to fully suupport the service. Telecommunication services are divided into two broad catagories. Bearer service provides a capability for the transmission of signals between user-network interfaces. It offers the connection to the network and covers layers one to three of the OSI reference model. Telecommunication service provides the complete capability, including terminal equipment functions, for communication between users according to established protocols. It offers connection to the network and covers layers one to three of the OSI reference model and layers four to seven also. -JD/NIA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ LOTUS CDROM (anon) Lotus Development Corporation has a new product due out in 1991, called "Household Marketplace." It's a database on CDROM. It has the estimated income and a profile of the buying habits of 120 million US residents. That's a high percentage of the US population -- the odds are pretty good that YOU are in the Lotus database. A Lotus spokesman has said that the company is concerned about privacy issues, so to help prevent misuse of the data only legitimate businesses can get the disk. With easy access to a laser printer, a POBox, and/or a fax machine, however, it is hard to see how Lotus can determine the legitimacy of anyone, however, and I'm sure that with minor effort almost anyone will be able to purchase Marketplace. The cost, by the way, is under $1000 with quarterly updates available. The database does not contain any of the data covered by the Fair Credit Practices Act so Lotus is under no legal obligation to let you see what they are saying about you. In fact, during interviews they have said that there is NO WAY for an individual to review their personal data, nor are there any provisions to make corrections on what is recorded. Lotus will remove anyone from their database who writes to them. Send a letter to: Lotus Development Corp. Attn: Market Name Referral Service 55 Cambridge Parkway Cambridge, MA 02142 --- Attention all Hackers, Journalist, and Federal Agents, A new board has been opened up to the Computer Underground Society: FACE to FACE @ 713 242 6853 Phrack distribution! Home to Network Information Access ______________________________________________________________________________ This Bulletin Board System is designed to open a new era-- the era of the 1990s Computer Underground. Security Agents, Journalists, and Hackers from all over the country are invited to call in an attempt to carry on intelligent conversation. It's a pure communications medium between the two sides. Access is guaranteed to anyone who may wish to call. As you might know, the new Phrack is out, and is available at F2F. --**-- News Flash: Phrack Classic 33 is scheduled to be released before Christmas! As of yet though, no exact date has been set in stone. However, Phrack is accepting submissions openly-- you may send them to any of the following addresses: pc@well.sf.ca.us phrack@nuchat.sccsi.com FACE to FACE BBS @ 713 242 6853 [::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::] NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA "MODEM BLUES : NUCLEAR GERBIL" Well, I got my modem Just sixteen 1200 baud, y'know what I mean I could hack into Randall's with that And I learned other nifty crap Like how to make people think I'm cool A five-page ANSI signoff to make you drool I love my modem and my ego, too And good warezzzz make me want to spoo! But, ask me to post what I'm thinking about I laugh at you to try and figure me out I'm into door games, downloads, chat lines too, But posting intelligently I can't do! 'Cause I'm a 'm0e' And I've got the 'Houston m0dem blues'... (solo) Thank you, thank you, fuck you all & goodnight. NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA >From :Averon #59 To :Guardian Of Time #21 Subject :Privacy..? DateTime:5:31 pm Mon Nov 12, 1990 Yep.. my point exactly. The government considers itself above the law, therefore pays only marginal lip service to procedures. If the SS can get away with terrorizing some folks who scare easily, then it WILL. It doesn't matter who's right and who's wrong.. if you are wrongly accused of criminal acts, YOU pay the price. Defense is expensive, court/jail time is a drain on your physical/mental energies, society NEVER forgives, even if you are acquitted. How can you possibly explain away all those federales pawing thru your stuff, the flashing blue-and-whites in your driveway, your neighbors being questioned? "Yeah, sure you're innocent.. what'd you REALLY do? Bet you plea bargained with them, eh?" Sundevil is a pre-emptive first strike against perceived criminals; the goal is not to round up some collosal gang of hackers, rather its sole purpose is to confiscate equipment, strike fear in the hearts of those who are borderline illegal, and grandstand for the media. Equipment is rarely returned, and when it is, it's often damaged and unusable. The non-computing public is willing to let these "hackers" suffer because they don't understand! If it was Nintendo games and Acura Integras being rounded up, things'd be different... but the publicity has been unfairly stacked. We are living in an age of "Wars": War on Drugs, War on Free Speech, War on Pornography, War on Hackers... what's next? See you behind the barbed wire. NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA THE STATE OF NATIONAL SECURITY -- HOW MUCH WE (DON'T) KNOW By Sir Lawrence Transcribed and Edited by Lord Macduff I have been a member of the modem community for about seven years. During that time period, I have watched literally hundreds of bulletin boards go up and go down. A great majority of these systems were based on a public message and file exchange. But a few of these systems were dedicated to the exchange and distribution of information... Information that was not usually available on a regular basis. In my day, I have seen files on VAX/VMS, phone switching systems, hacking, phreaking, and anything else that one could dream of. But one thing that constantly has me pondering at all hours of the night is the state of our national defense. How close and how often do we come to pressing the button? Defined as DEFCON-1, the state of panic which is actually sub-defined as World War III, is something that has not been reached... yet. There are five levels of International Status. DEFCON-5 is what we'd all like to be at... unless you're a real nut case and have absolutely no hope for the future of mankind. DEFCON(s) 4-1 are lesser states of "panic". A dumb reference, yet a valid one, is the movie "Wargames". Although a liberal dose of fiction was mixed in as far as the actual methods of hacking and such, it makes one think "Just how often DO hackers break into systems like that and cause problems possibly leading to the destruction of the world?" [Editor's Note -- Not as often as certain federal agencies would like to think. Go catch some REAL criminals instead of picking on us modem users...] Another question that comes to mind is "How often do Soviet troop movements or something of that nature cause a defcon decrease to bring us to the brink of global extermination... and the public never knows about it?" During the Kennedy Administration, this country was brought to what is the equivalent of DEFCON-2 when the Soviets brought their missiles into Cuba in the early 1960's. From what transcripts say about the incident, we were seconds away from DEFCON-1... what a pisser, huh? Although that happened seven years before I was born, my generation would have taken it with a grain of salt and looked at it as a chance to get a tan. (A real good one, I might add...) Our country goes seconds from World War III and we never found out until years later. How often does this happen? Personally, I'd like to know when Vodka is going to replace Coca-Cola as the national beverage. I'd also like to know when fish eggs are going to be put on the menu at fast food joints. At this very moment [4:27 AM on Sunday, November 11, 1990 if anyone is curious... -Ed.] United States and Allied troops are in the Middle East preparing for war. The media reports that all the troops are over there just sitting around bored to death. [Yet another Editor's Note -- Due to a time control problem, I will finish this essay instead of Sir Lawrence... Apologies for the interruption.] It's very possible we could have another Vietnam on our hands. Hell, Saddam Hussain is not going to stop with the invasion of Kuwait... There's a very interesting parallel between Hussain and a short German guy who started World War II... I'm not so sure why everyone's worried about German Reunification -- It's the Iraquis we SHOULD be worrying about! Hussain insists that the American citizens that he is holding hostage in various hotels in Baghdad are "Guests". We might do well to round up every last Iraqi citizen in this country who has a visa or green card and stick 'em all in ONE Motel 6 somewhere in the midwest. Let Tom Bodett deal with them for a while... Perhaps the CIA could go blow up some of their planes or important buildings... Goodness knows they've done the same to us enough times to make the average citizen want to puke. If we hurry up and storm the place NOW, before Saddam figures out how to put together that mail-order nuclear bomb, we could take the whole place over in a matter of days. We could use that oil. The weapons manufacturers would make a fortune, prehaps even create new jobs. Our economy could USE a boost, with the gas prices what they are. [Sidenote: Who's to say that Exxon isn't financing Saddam Hussain?] Sell the entire country to Russia for them to use as parking, for that matter. The projected costs for Operation Desert Shield are in the billions, while it has accomplished virtually nothing. Truly another case of YOUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK. But who's to say if this is for real? This may be a conspiracy by the oil companies (who secretly own the government) to make more money. The government controls the media, which is our only source if information from over there. Small wonder they want to supress publications like PHRACK... They aren't from the government-controlled media. SUPRESSION BREEDS REVOLUTION NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA "WHEN WILL MACHINGS BECOME INTELLIGENT - MARK ROBERT THORSON" When will machines become intelligent? What will the transition be like? I see three possible scenarios: 1) Sudden introduction of machine consciousness technology. This could be a result of some essential feature of intelligence, some sort of critical mass, which comes into being suddenly. For example, if consciousness required the supernatural entity commonly known as a "soul", consciousness would not be demonstrated until we build the first machine which is a suitable vehicle for a soul. When the soul takes possession, consciousness suddenly results. Alternatively, consciousness might require some period of introspection or self-teaching. Pre-intelligent machines would be unable to enter this positive feedback loop. The first intelligent machine would puzzle its inventors by going into a meditation state for a while, then POW! ... "I think therefore I am!" 2) Gradual introduction of machine consciousness. In this scenario, the definition of intelligence is very blurred. The last people who will admit that machines are intelligent will be the machine-builders themselves, because they understand the inner workings and see the machines as mechanisms. There will be a gradual continuum of intelligence up to the most sophisticated programs, which are likely to be video games and management information systems. The upper range of this continuum will advance slowly, but will eventually reach the level of machines which seem obviously intelligent when viewed by the lay public. A likely side-effect will be a generational break between two generations of programmers. There will be a generation of old geezers who insist machines are not intelligent because they understand all the tricks machines use to fake intelligence. And there will be the younger generation who understand that faking intelligence is actually the same thing as intelligence. 3) The entry of intelligence into practical use is undiscovered until some point after the fact. Machines which seem "obviously machine-like" but which contain some elementary features of reasoning become common tools. It's only years later that some creative person invents definitions for intelligent behavior which make it clear that we've really been using intelligent machines all along without seeing (or at least acknowledging) it. It will be this conceptual framework which will snap us into a sudden awareness that intelligence has been achieved, or perhaps that intelligence is a certain quantity which our machines possess in a small degree and which our brains possess in some larger degree. NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA--- "MARK ZENIER : CYBERPROBLEMS IN ALT.CYBERPUNK" In article <1990Nov20.020910.18823@ddsw1.MCS.COM>, (Sameer Parekh) writes: > > I think that some of the Chatsubo organizational materials should > be posted here for lack of another newsgroup. (And another one to organize > Chatsubo would be pointless.) If these materials were posted in > alt.cyberpunk.chatsubo, they would destroy the continuity of Chatsubo. > > Here we should post the framework of Chatsubo. I know that > Chatsubo should in itself be basically anarchic, but what would happen > of say, someone decided to kil someone else, yet that person did accept the > death. That is the reason for a basic framework. First some history for folks in alt.config. Around the start of November, a participant in alt.callahans decided to create a new milieau based on some of the new trends in science fiction. She did this in the newsgroup devoted to the discussion of this, alt.cyberpunk. She also invited a bunch of her friends to join in. Some of us existing readers of alt.cyberpunk were less than overjoyed that the newsgroup was being turned into a costume party version of soc.singles. Especially when some of these new people said they weren't going to leave. Fortunatly, the newsgroup alt.cyberpunk.chatsubo was created as a refuge for these poor lost souls. (Even if they are a little scorched around the edges.) Now, you want to hold the metadiscussions about alt.cyberpunk.chatsubo in alt.cyberpunk. Sorry, I'm not interested in who did what to whom, and what color the wallpaper should be. You have two options: 1. Get some discipline in your subject lines so that the metadiscussions can take place in alt.cyberpunk.chatsubo. (The lack of such discipline in the first round is the main grievance against the Chatsuboites) I suggest including the keyword "Metadiscussion" in the subject line. Or if that is too obtrusive: 1. Create a new newsgroup (alt.cyberpunk.chatsubo.backstage, alt.cyberpunk.chatsubo.d, ...) I don't care where you play your role-playing games, just as long as it isn't on top of someone elses newsgroup. markz@ssc.uucp NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA "HOW TO HAVE AN INTELLIGENT COMPLAINT W/OUT RESORTING TO JUNIOR HIGH SCHOOL LANGUAGE : MICHAEL RASMUSSEN" >I've begun to notice that a certain fraction of postings are now these >long, rambling, literary creations. I don't think this is the best way >to discuss the literary and prognosticative matters involved with >cyberpunk. > >believe this to be primarily a discussion group about the literary >form known as cyberpunk, and topics directly related to it. Postings >that are "in the cyberpunk mode" are related in a superficial way >-- >erich@tybalt.caltech.edu or try erich@through.caltech.edu The brown leather jacket goes along for the ride as its wearer goes up to the bar. He notices one of the crowd complaining about how the talk flows in here. "erich" seems disturbed that having crossed the threshold of an area labeled Interface he is mired (??) in an interface. "Barkeep," and Michael holds out a bill for another drink. "Paid for." replies the bartender. "Wha? well in that case give me one of whatever, whoever bought when they paid for mine." He starts to think about art school, and the arguments about critisizing work by talking about it and critisizing work by doing work which shows how you think it ought to be done. How it's one thing to say that straight or traditional photography was boring, that something new was needed; and quite another thing to demonstrate your belief by creating non-boring, yet understandable work outside of those streams. The barkeeper interrupted the thoughts by setting down a pitcher of saki with a traditional cup and a matching teacup. Michael's quizzical expression was returned with a small knowing grin. A sniff tells that the saki is excellent. "You have regulars with good taste I see," he says to the bartender as he lays own a tip. "Erich, how can postings 'in the cyberpunk mode' be 'related in a superficial way' to cyberpunk mode? They are examples of the mode at work, showing its strength and weakness in the most direct and verifiable mode available. You seem put off by the mehtod, I would guess that you would travel across Montana on the interstate, or in a plane, and miss the wonders of the great northern plains that using the roads that follow the Lewis & Clark trail can offer. Or closer to home for you, a trip to San Francisco would be on one of the "we take off every hour" flights, instead of up 101. Quick, to the point, and devoid of involvement. That's your choice. But we've been labeling our road as Interface, you don't have to take the exit (detour?). If you choose to join us remember that we are involved here, and we want to argue our points by example instead of abstraction. Well in any case, Some benefactor has provided me with saki and two cups. Would you like some?" Michael sits down, pours the warm fluid with an air of reverence and takes a sip from the cup he has chosen for himself. He looks at Erich and settels down into the overstuffing of the armchair. "Pirsig talks about quality in Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. Quality as a distinct entity. Our quality is cyberpunk by example. Though at first glance it seems 'rambling' you may find that it is the direct route to discovering the limits of our tools today. Metadiscussions just don't seem to fit the bill, to me at least." NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA "LEST WE FORGET OUR DAYS OF BOXING : LEN VISHNEVSKY" > I used to see plans of boxes all the time. Does anyone remember the > blotto box? It seems that someone had the impression the FBI used a > method called lock and trace, which kept the voltage on your phone > line at a high level, so they g-men could trace you and you couldn't > disconnect the line (i.e. hang up) The blotto box was designed to > play a radio or some other electric device to lower the voltage and > disconnect the line before you were traced. Does any of this seem > even remotely real? Obviously with ess you can be traced instantly > now, but what about 5-10 years ago? It was true 5-10 years ago. They would raise the voltage of your line to 90v or so, which made a loud noise in your ear and *kept* the phone line open. Try to hang up and the phone would ring again. You might not be on the line, but your path would stay open. The Blotto Box was simple: Connect the red/green wires to an AC outlet and plug your light in. This would use up all the power, supposedly. Also, supposedly, they tried to compensate by increasing the power, which the light bulb promptly ate up. In the end, the FBI computer would melt from generating that much power. But the phone line's fuses would blow before that would *really* happen, thus disconnecting your path. I think this method of trace, at the fastest, took 10 seconds. Plenty of time to unplug your light and put it on the line. But you've got to know you're being traced... So you stick a voltmeter on your line. This became kind of popular. Since old kludgy bugs and taps used to drain power from your line, you not only knew when someone was tracing, but when someone was tapping. But it was only a tool for the paranoid, since how many people actually got traced this way? NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA Message # 31 of 40 Subject: Hi etc... From: [MODERATED] To: ALL Sent: 11/21/90 at 7:58 pm Hi, all. Yeah, I really want to see some people from the Establishment log on. Then this place should start a-movin'. I dunno about Sun D II, some people in the in 415 area code - have been busted. The thing that bothers me the most is, as usual, the methods. If these boys had been ANY other type of criminal, they would have been treated more fairly (ok, with the possible exception of any criminal who happens to be black - the get treated as porrly much of the time). And if any of you all seemingly nonexistent security folk wanna refute that, let's talk. But I think the statement that indicates the levels that are currently being stooped to is that we might get our phone lines tapped (TAPPED!) for legally calling this completely legal BBS. But hey - just another bit of evidence that the US is discarding its original Constitution for one more sympathetic to, say, Nazi Germany's. NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA Sub-Board: FACE to FACE Message # 32 of 40 Subject: SD II From: [MODERATED] To: ALL Sent: 11/21/90 at 8:39 pm Uncensored was making a big thing out of 9-12 supposed busts in New York. I've made a few phone calls trying to find out how true it was, but no ones talking... CLLI Code went down at about that time though, so there might be some truth to it.... NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA Sub-Board: Operation "SunDevil" Message # 14 of 19 Subject: naughty stuff From: [MODERATED] To: ALL Sent: 11/21/90 at 8:11 pm So, you think maybe people would eventually come to their senses? A judge in Oakland seems to have authorized a wiretap because person a, who had been convicted of illegally entering a computer and... changing a Christmas mailing list, had person b's name and phone number amongst his hacking notes. In fact, the police not only got the original search warrant for person a because ONE company had his number traced ONCE, but got a warrant for person b and, after failing to find anything incriminating, got the tap for person b. Sure enough, person b had a knock on his door a few days ago.. but that's not the point. Even gangs in San Francisco get better treatment from judges. OK. Enough ranting. NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA Sub-Board: FACE to FACE Message # 42 of 78 Subject: Re: Why... From: [MODERATED] To: [ Anonymous ] Sent: 11/23/90 at 5:58 pm I can answer that at least in part since I work for a corporation and my job is to stop 'hackers'. I mean this in the prevention sense rather than by working with the cops but I've done that also. In a sense some of you have created me -> by attacking computers that are necessary to our business, you have created fear and anger in the part of management. This has led to desire for punishment and revenge which is not surprising to any student of psychology. This has even affected me to some extent as sometimes I see myself as the handle implies, a wizard but sometimes I see myself as a cat, watching a mouse hole, looking for a nice meal of mice. After all, if you poke your head thru the hole, you are responsible for your own actions. Now, I do feel that there has to be balancing in sentencing and that someone convicted for serious crimes, whether white or blue collar ought to get much more severe sentences than tresspass-class cracking but system crashing and repeat offences are another matter. NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA Sub-Board: FACE to FACE Message # 46 of 78 Subject: General From: [MODERATED] To: ALL Sent: 11/23/90 at 11:38 pm After a few years of leaving the computer "underground" and heading out into the world of business computing, I feel that I have seen both sides of what is supposed to be the "law". Why do I get the funny feeling that the further that I delve into the "legal" side of it, the further I get away from what is really the truth and is more moral than the so-called legal users of the system. Okay, so I may seem to have some contempt for the system. About four years ago, I belonged to a group known simply (hah!) as "Omnipotent, Inc." We really didn't think of ourselves as a "hacker ring" since we were rarely involved in hacking outside our own little world of suburbia hidden away somewhere in 713. Then one day the roof came crashing down on us. Of the original seven members. Two were arrested three (including myself) were made to pay for "damages" done to school computers and business computers and long-distance services. The rest of the members I have not been in contact with since that time. The two that were arrested were given probation and the usual community service since the charges were not viewed as being serious. However, the scary fact is that the poeple that were investigating this so-called "hacker group" (these are direct quotes from a Southwestern Bell Security employee) had no idea of the extent of what was really happening. The investigation, if there ever was truly one, must have been a half-assed job that truly didn't check to see if we were behind half the things that were going on. NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA Sub-Board: FACE to FACE Message # 53 of 78 Subject: Re: General From: [MODERATED] To: [MODERATED] Sent: 11/25/90 at 4:24 am first, call me sometime, i think your mind is going.. about msg #51.. i seriously doubt any company is losing any appreciable amount to hacking. I understand that some might feel the information is too sensive and invest to prevent it from getting out. Of course, they could also keep on withe the southern bell estimates of $200K to change passwords.. boy, sure would like to be the person who did that.. 'bout 50K an hour.. about msg #52.. in most of the cases about hackers you hear about, no damage is ever actually done, by normal standards. problem is what the companies consider damage, ie use of computer time & resources.. NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA Sub-Board: FACE to FACE Message # 61 of 78 Subject: Jerry Crown! From: [MODERATED] To: ALL Sent: 11/26/90 at 12:42 am Hey, man, what's up? So, what can we learn from your post - if, as I assume as well, it is genuine? We know of your ego; not to offend, mine is pretty immense too, but it isn't just anyone who'll come right out and say "I AM Big Brother and I know where you live!" And we have yet another bit of evidence that that is the way the "powers that be" think - we're mice. We know a little - not much, yet, maybe talk to us? - of what you do. You log on to boards under, I am assuming, false pretences, to... what? Talk to us, eh? I can assume you do it to catch people abusing GTE's telecomm. services (Sprint and the erstwhile Telenet), but then for what do you care about us? My questions to you - 1) What exactly is it that you do? 2) Why - both personally (does it excite you as much as it did Stoll?) and as a corporation (how much cash does Sprint claim it loses, how much does the extra electricity really cost y'all?) 3) My biggest question - what is your moral analysis of the situation? What is your opinion of the various crimes you investigate, from code fraud to cracking systems via x.25 nets? [SORRY LOST THE REST OF THIS MESSAGE -- GUARDIAN OF TIME ] NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA Sub-Board: FACE to FACE Message # 70 of 78 Subject: Re: Why... From: [MODERATED] To: [ Anonymous ] Sent: 11/26/90 at 8:03 am The reason the pheds are cracxking down is because of a statistic I heard over the weekend. The average bank robbery net $5000.00 The average computer crime nets $300,00 It explains a few things. Hacking for profit is not exactly the most "ethical" things to do. In, fact, hacker by definition do not hack for anything other than knowledge and challenge. NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA Sub-Board: FACE to FACE Message # 73 of 78 Subject: Re: General From: [MODERATED] To: [MODERATED] Sent: 11/26/90 at 1:28 pm You are quite wrong does the word Industrial Espionage ring any bells? How much would coca cola lose it their formula got out? They are ver very protective of that I even doubt they'd prosecute I assume they would call up Jake or Myer Lanski and kill. As to loses yes it does happen on a large degree but not by us. Individuals who destroy for a living are to blame, and wse end up as the scapegoats. As for the governments interest in hackers fear is what comes to mind if you don't understand something kill it or get rid of it. That has always been the theory, and because hackers have power to pry where they shouldn't we might learn of some nasty thing thier doing that we shouldn't know about i.e. using human beings off the street for bio and chemical weapons tests. Or do you think the mighty US mass produces chemical and biological agents without first testing them out on people to be sure they work? Enough of that I just prefer honesty not lies from our government. The old cliche "Practice what you preach" comes to mind right now. As for the constituition it's NOTHING, but a worthless piece of paper noone cares at all look at Noriega. They bugged conversations between him and his attourney, disallowed him to take out funds to pay for his trial, etc... NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA Sub-Board: FACE to FACE Message # 78 of 78 Subject: Re: Re: Sprintdude From: [MODERATED] To: [MODERATED] Sent: 11/26/90 at 9:53 pm I dont think anyone is trying to turn this into a rag fest.. Its just extremely hard to believe that someone who has supposedly been involved with security investigations as long as he claims to have been would be a little more mature in his postings. The security/law enforcement/etc field is SUPPOSED to have an unbiased opinion concerning matters that pertain to their work. Just like the press. That is how they supposedly come up with their "professional" opinions. In the case of our friend Mr. Jerry here, he seems to have a personality problem, or perhaps its just a lack of professionalism. Personally, I dont think he is involved in security. Someone mentioned the idea of a plant, or just some "kid" having fun pretending to be Mr. Big-Bad-Security-Agent. Anyone who has been involved with security that long should at least be professional. Well...Thats my $.02. "Little, yellow, different, better." NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA Sub-Board: Operation "SunDevil" Message # 30 of 31 Subject: Re: stuff From: [MODERATED] To: [MODERATED] Sent: 11/26/90 at 3:09 am Search affidavits and warrants tend to be canned "cliff notes" type of things, and they generally list things like books, notes, cassettes, and anything electronic that looks suspicious. The raiders are generally not knowledgeable and go a bit wild (see Len Rose, Steve Jackson, Doc Cypher, etc). In one raid they took a copy of Gordon Meyer's M.A. thesis. They've taken answering machines, telephones, and even private letters and paper unrelated to computers belonging to others. Educating judges and other about what's reasonable and what's not is one goal....next they'll be taking the microwave and refrigerator. NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA "CHATSUBO CHATSUBO WHY CAN'T WE HAVE A CHATSUBO: LEFTY" In article <1990Nov20.020910.18823@ddsw1.MCS.COM> zane@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Sameer Parekh) writes: > I think that some of the Chatsubo organizational materials should > be posted here for lack of another newsgroup. (And another one to organize > Chatsubo would be pointless.) If these materials were posted in > alt.cyberpunk.chatsubo, they would destroy the continuity of Chatsubo. I think you're sadly mistaken. I didn't want your Creative Writing 101 assignments in here in the first place, I'm certainly not interested in the supporting material. As far as the "continuity" of alt.cyberpunk.chatsubo is concerned, that's _your_ worry. > Here we should post the framework of Chatsubo. I know that > Chatsubo should in itself be basically anarchic, but what would happen > of say, someone decided to kil someone else, yet that person did accept the > death. That is the reason for a basic framework. Keep it _out_ of alt.cyberpunk, please. This is _not_ what I subscribe to the group for. Here's a good idea. Maybe Tim and I can come in with blasters, and kill everybody... > One idead for the framework that I have regards the bartender. > I think that he/she can have an active role, but not _too_ active. > What I mean is that he/she can act and do things, but they mustn't be > very active actions. (now THAT is one COHERENT sentence) People when > they post should make the bartender do things, and respond, and the like, > but the actions shouldn't have a drastic effect. > (I hope this last paragraph was understood) Just about as well written as most of the other examples of this ilk I've seen. > Well, seeya there. Not on a dare. -- Lefty (lefty@twg.com) | "And you may ask yourself, D:.O:.D:., C:.M:.C:. | 'How do I work this?'" End of article 4821 (of 4826)--what next? [npq] NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA "LANGUAGE THE REAL THING: MARK ROBERT THROSON" Language is first and foremost the reproduction mechanism for memes. A meme (as defined by Dawkins in _The_Selfish_Gene_) is an individual particle of culture, just as a gene is an individual particle of genetic inheritance. A meme can be an individual thought, such as "soup is good food" or a complex of thoughts, such as a religion. Language is how memes jump from person to person. On the transmit end, the language organ photographs a portion of the network of crystallized intelligence and encodes it for shipment. On the receive end, it decodes the package and temporarily installs it into the corresponding place in the receiver's network. The code is free of the context of the transmitter and receiver. For example, if I say "This tastes like fish." that would seem like a good thing to a receiver who likes fish, or a bad thing to one who doesn't. I.e. the message doesn't carry the context with it unless it is specifically encoded, as in "This tastes like -- yuck -- fish.". (Voice inflection can transmit the same information, but that is just another form of specific encoding of the context.) I can tell you anything in my conscious mind, from why I don't eat pickles to why I don't go to church. Likewise, I can input almost any idea from you. I might not agree with the truth or falseness of what you say, but I can try it on for size. I can map it into my network and see if it fits. Somehow, the language organ is like some sort of robot arm, with random-access pick-and-place reach into arbitrary places in the network, as illustrated below. * - * * - * - * - * * - * - * * - * - * | | | | | | | | * - * - * - * * * - * - * - * - * * - * | | | | | | * - * - * - * * - * - * - * - * | | | * * - * * (*) -------------- /\ V | Language | / \ | | Encoder/ |_/ \| | Decoder | -------------- How could an organ have such all-invasive access? It could selectively activate individual particles of crystallized intelligence using an address bus. For example, when the address bus for the food department of my brain carries the code for "pickles", an address decoder activates my pickle-agents including one connected to my "too much salt" agent. Seventy binary signals can address more than a billion billion particles, so obviously such an address bus needn't be unreasonably large. (It would probably be much larger than seventy binary signals, however, in order that a random address picked out by an agent would be likely to be globally unique, much like the system used to assign credit card numbers.) My guess is that the language organ has two parts: a centralized encode/decode part (Broca's and Wernicke's areas, etc.) hooked up to the hearing and vocal organs, and a distributed part -- the "robot arm" -- consisting of one or more sparsely encoded buses capable of interrogating all of the conscious agents and agencies and even placing new agents and constructing new agencies, although the newly-arrived memes seem to have weak connections, and require reinforcement from the existing network to become permanent. (I.e. you are much more likely to believe your own conclusions than those spoken to you or read in a book, until you've had time to consider them.) In an earlier posting, I claimed that thoughts are the experience of agents crossing the fluid vs. crystallized interface. Now, I'd go further and claim that dreams are the experience of agents and agencies spontaneously forming and re-dissolving while the robot arm is idle. We don't perceive dreams while we're awake because agents and agencies constructed by the arm are formed at a higher voltage or pressure or something. While the arm is active, we don't see the spontaneous activity, just as we don't see the stars when the sun is out. The higher intensity of the connections created by the arm is lacking in the agents and agencies formed during dreams, which is why dreams are forgotten so quickly. New thoughts begin in this haze of spontaneous activity (which is always present, even though we only perceive it at night). A new thought occurs when two crystallized agents need a connection, and a fluid agent jumps into the gap. If the connection is really needed, it gets reinforced and becomes permanent. NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA Warning: Be wary of Japanese bearing microchips : KEVIN HUGHES _Mondo_2000_ is getting famous around the Bay Area! Within a few months of the number two issue, articles about the magazine and related interviews have appeared in the (East Bay) _Express_ and the San Francisco _Examiner_. Queen Mu, _Mondo_'s 'Domineditrix', was actually interviewed as part of a local news series on cracking, to be mentioned later. Usenet posters and _Mondo_ letters page writers attest to heavy perusal of _Mondo_ in high-tech workplaces (such as Intel and Sun Microsystems). The _Examiner_ says _Mondo_ is "_huge_ in England and Japan". Again, you can subscribe (getting four issues) by sending $24, check or money order, to _Mondo_2000_, P.O. Box 10171, Berkeley, CA, 94709. Airmail or overseas subscriptions are $50. Their telephone number is (415) 845-9018; their fax number is (415) 649-9630. The only place close to the UCB campus that you can find _Mondo_ (and where I first found it) is at Dave's Smoke Shop on 2444 Durant Avenue - (415) 841-7292. Another publication that is computer oriented and rather metaphysical is _The_Node_, "For hackers with soul", based in San Francisco. It states that it is ". . .published quarterly by Performing Arts Social Society, Inc., to foster the use of computers in improving the human condition in the 21st Century. It is produced with the help of Utopian Technology. You can sub- scribe to _The_Node_ for $12 a year. For $18 a year, you can receive _The_ Node_ plus four copies of _RockHEAD_, a music/psychology publication 'for rockers with brains.' _The_Node_ actively fosters the idea of 'psychographic networking' linking up people around shared values and interests. . .". The address is _The_Node_, P.O. Box 1174, San Francisco, CA, 94101. If you live in or around the Bay Area, you can pick up _The_Node_ free from a newsstand. Some cyberarticles I've seen around include a great article on Tim Leary's involvement with VR and such in the S.F. _Examiner_'s _Image_ magazine, the 11/4/90 issue. A good article on VR written by _Omni_ magazine columnist Steve Ditlea appears in the 10/21/90 _This_World_ magazine, which I believe comes with the S.F. _Examiner_'s Sunday paper as well. That article was adapted from a series running in _New_York_ magazine. A decent interview with _Mondo_'s editor R.U. Sirius is featured in the 9/28/90 East Bay _Express_. I find that trying to get educational information from computer science students is like trying to find a contact lens in a sandstorm. But I encourage those both in and out of college to attend lectures and buy texts teaching subjects they're interested in but not necessarily enrolled in. A little information can go a long way, and you won't have to endure the stress of tests and grading. Here's some information to help you find more information using Internet: If you have telnet capability, you can access dozens of computer- based library systems in as many locations. Besides the GLADIS and MELVYL systems at UCB, you can look up books at the Universities of Delaware, Hawaii, Chicago, Illinois, Kansas, and Maine, to name a few. An updated list of these catalogs and databases is available - just ftp to UMD5.UMD.EDU, login as 'anonymous', and the list will be in the 'info-lib' directory. The list was last updated on 8/5/90. I recommend looking at CARL, the Colorado Alliance of Research Libraries. The database contains a list of other useful public Internet databases. Telnet to 192.54.81.128 (pac.carl.org). One neat place I found through CARL was a geographic information database with thousands of locations, ZIP codes, latitudes, and longitudes. Just type in a place, a ZIP, or nearly anything, and the server will find the matching relevant data almost instantly. I find it a lot of fun for quick searches and trivia. Telnet to martini.eecs.umich.edu, using port 3000 (type 'telnet martini.eecs.umich.edu 3000'). The Cleveland Free-Net also seems worth exploring around a bit. Telnet to 129.22.8.(75,76,77,78 or 82). A list of anonymously ftp-able sites can be found on some help or Internet newsgroups, or it can be found by just asking around your local network. Or you can email me and I'll send you a copy. Newsgroups that some reading this newsgroup may find appealing are: alt.cyberspace, alt.cyb-sys, alt.society.cu-digest, comp.ai (.neural-nets, .philosophy), comp.mail.multi-media, comp.society (.futures), sci.bio.tech- nology, sci.environment, sci.nanotech (there's a good discussion on this one), sci.virtual-worlds, and no doubt a lot more. You can also find a list of public access UNIX/Usenet sites regularly posted and updated at least monthly on the newsgroup pubnet.nixpub. Have fun and try using the system to your advantage for once! _Addendum_ In message ID 1990Nov21.055955.11358@lavaca.uh.edu, J. Eric Townsend (jet@karazm.math.uh.edu) types: ] Old technology is not useless -- it can be adapted to solve problems ] you don't have a budget for. ] That 512K Mac in your closet would be a perfect gift for a researcher ] in a computer-third-world country... Absolutely! But a 512K Mac, IMHO, isn't such a hot _multimedia_ machine these days. I know of a computing center that appletalks about five upgraded five year old Macs, and successfully has them run Microsoft Word 4.0 and PageMaker 3.0. There's also a UC Berkeley Mac physics lab that uses a 512 exclusively for cleansing viruses. It's a great inexpensive approach. I think as more people learn computing, there will be a good amount of American and especially international third-world students who will learn on old technology, because it's very cheap and it still works. But by then I'm sure the fairly well-to-do will be expecting (and getting) cheap state-of-the-art technology. Today there are those who always insist on getting the most up-to-date computer and gadget, just as there are those who are comfortable using old Commodore 64's or whatever to get what they need done. Myself, I wouldn't mind scavenging a flea market for a Timex-Sinclair or even an Altair, just to use for waking me up in the morning. :^) ______ Kevin Hughes | "The problem with | --_\ __/_------------------------------------| the future is that it |--- \ \ \ / Internet: kevinh@ocf.berkeley.edu | usually arrives before | ---\/\/\/-------------------------------------| we're ready for it." |--- NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA 64/65: TAP Name: [MODERATED] Date: Mon Nov 12 23:32:56 1990 Well... good questions, i have answered them before during summercon 1989, but for those that didn't hear or know i will go over it again. TAP quit publishing in 1984 after a big FBI coverup type thing. They broke into the editors house, stole most of his papers and mailing lists and what they could not carry they set on fire and burned. In 1989 it was decided TAP would rise from the ashes and rumors of the past to continue into the future. Aristotle and I (Predat0r) obtained permission from the last two editors of TAP, who were TUC and Cheshire Catalyst that we could publish TAP. they said they would not support us, but did not care that we restarted it. So they turned it over to us with all legal rights. including the ISSN number for the magazine. under current copyright laws each issue of TAP is copywritten by the general definition of the copyright laws. since i am the publisher i could sue someone for reprinting an article and not asking for or giving credit to TAP. it gets complicated and is a matter for lawyers and all and i don't feel like posting an official TAP is this and can do this, and so forth, i take no stand on anything until my lawyer advises me again. and i am not wasting money unless something big comes out of it. like someone else trying to start a TAP clone. NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA---NIA Well, this concludes NIA issue 67. If anyone wishes (hint) to submit some material, please do so at the elisem@nuchat.sccsi.com You can get our files from f2f and soon the CuD archives. Look for upcoming issues soon (including HP and more DEC manuals). Well, its getting closer to winter so to end the file with these wise words: -Never eat yellow snow. -anon [OTHER WORLD BBS]