home *** CD-ROM | disk | FTP | other *** search
- Path: merk!spdcc!mintaka!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!usc!samsung!munnari.oz.au!metro!macuni!sunc!ifarqhar
- From: ifarqhar@sunc.mqcc.mq.oz.au (Ian Farquhar)
- Newsgroups: sci.crypt
- Subject: Re: Cloning Razor Blades
- Keywords: Signatures, Authorization
- Message-ID: <807@macuni.mqcc.mq.oz>
- Date: 27 Nov 90 22:04:11 GMT
- References: <1990Nov23.202021.5567@weitek.COM>
- Sender: news@macuni.mqcc.mq.oz
- Organization: Macquarie University, Sydney
- Lines: 39
-
- In article <1990Nov23.202021.5567@weitek.COM> wallis@weitek.UUCP (Bob Wallis) writes:
- >My question is, does anyone know of a way to do this that imposes
- >minimal overhead on the authenticator? Are there other commercial
- >products that try to do this? It is OK to put a big burden on the
- >originator, since the signing part is done only once at the factory.
-
- The Atari Lynx reportedly uses RSA or something close. An image of the ROM
- (probably some sort of checksum) is apparently encrypted during manufacture
- using a private key, and the image is sorted in the ROM. When the cartridge
- is booted, a small ROM routine produces the checksum image, and decrypts
- (using the public key) the checksum sorted on the cart. If they compare
- properly, the cartridge is run. If not, the cartridge does not run.
-
- They Lynx has quite a bit of computing power, so the authentication does
- not take long (about 8 - 12 secs). It is only done at the start of the
- boot process, before any code in the cartridge has run, so you cannot
- perform any software hacks to avoid this authentication.
-
- Only the public key is contained in the Lynx ROMS, and unless you have a
- fast method of factorising numbers into primes (I am 99% sure that
- such a system exists and is known to the NSA and similarly paranoid
- orginisations). Additionally, Atari places a level of legal protection
- over the top, as developers have to sign a legal agreement that would
- prevent them producing cartridges even if they knew the private key.
- Even so, Atari do not tell developers any of this, and all I have said
- is from piecing together reports and a bit of common sense.
- There was also an article on the Internet News that stated that NCSA
- permission was obtained to export this technology, which makes sense.
- Please note that Atari Computers (manufacturers of the Lynx) and Atari
- Games (arcade machines and HES carts) are separate companies. The
- authentication system itself as well as they Lynx as a whole was
- developed by Epyx, who were reportedly using the authentication as a way
- of ensuring game quality.
-
- --
- Ian Farquhar Phone : 61 2 805-9404
- Office of Computing Services Fax : 61 2 805-7433
- Macquarie University NSW 2109 Also : 61 2 805-7205
- Australia EMail : ifarqhar@suna.mqcc.mq.oz.au
-
- From: mae@vygr.Eng.Sun.COM (Mike Ekberg, Sun {DSGG.DGDO.Mid-Range Graphics.Egret(GS)} MS 8-04)
- Newsgroups: sci.crypt
- Subject: Re: Cloning Razor Blades
- Keywords: Signatures, Authorization
- Message-ID: <3738@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>
- Date: 29 Nov 90 23:57:34 GMT
- References: <1990Nov23.202021.5567@weitek.COM>
- Sender: news@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM
- Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
- Lines: 28
-
- In article <1990Nov23.202021.5567@weitek.COM> wallis@weitek.UUCP (Bob Wallis) writes:
- >I was told that when Nintendo came out with their newest video game
- >system, they intended to sell the box cheap, but really soak the
- >customers for the game cartriges (the razor blades). In order protect
-
- Nintendo actually chose a simpler method. They patented the
- mechanical connection of the cartridge with the box. I believe the
- Atari suite was patent infringement on the cart packaging.
-
- When you think about it, this is an elegant solution.
-
- Nintendo liscenses the cartridge mechanisms to 3rd parties at this
- point. I think they originally actually supplied the physical
- cartridges, which allowed them to restrict competition by
- limiting the numbers of carts sold, but were sued for restraint of trade.
-
- As an aside, quite out of net.crypt subject range, people thought Atari
- did the same thing w/ the VCS (i.e. cheap box, "expensive" carts). This
- was not true. They actually made a good margin on the box as well.
- It was just 6507(?), about $2.00 at the time, plus a small VLSI (TIA), and
- some glue logic and plastic and connectors.
-
- I imagine Nintendo is the same, with possibly some VRAM added.
-
-
- --
- # mike (sun!mae), M/S 8-04
- "The people are the water, the army are the fish" Mao Tse-tung
-
-
- From: ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith)
- Newsgroups: sci.crypt
- Subject: Re: Cloning Razor Blades
- Message-ID: <36423@cup.portal.com>
- Date: 1 Dec 90 11:28:22 GMT
- References: <1990Nov23.202021.5567@weitek.COM> <3738@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>
- Organization: The Portal System (TM)
- Lines: 22
-
- The Atari VCS was also one of the ugliest things to program imaginable.
- Software was responsible for various critical timing aspects in a
- game, requiring various branches through the code to take exactly
- the same time, requiring the programmer to stuff NOPs in to keep
- things balanced.
-
- The Intellivision (sp?), on the other hand, was quite a bit more
- sophisticated. 10 or 16 bit processor (depending on how you looked
- at it)(yes, I really said 10 bits back there). An operating system
- that handled object motion, animation, and interaction, and managed
- the controls for the programmer. And the screwiest graphics format
- I've every seen.
-
- To tie this into sci.crypt, there were people working on the
- Intellivision III who wanted to use some sort of cryptography
- system to prevent others from producing cartridges. If the video
- game industry had not nearly died, prompting Mattel to get out
- of that market, this would have been a neat machine. 68000 and
- custom graphics chips. In fact, the prototype was in many ways
- similar to the Amiga, but in 1983.
-
- Tim Smith
-
- From: ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith)
- Newsgroups: sci.crypt
- Subject: Re: Cloning Razor Blades
- Message-ID: <36513@cup.portal.com>
- Date: 4 Dec 90 02:37:56 GMT
- References: <1990Nov23.202021.5567@weitek.COM> <3738@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>
- <36423@cup.portal.com>
- Organization: The Portal System (TM)
- Lines: 9
-
- Oops. Where I said Intellivison III in the previous article, I
- meant the machine that would have been released after the
- Intellivision III. The Intellivision III used the same processor
- as the Intellivision (GI 1600 - the chip from hell).
-
- This has no relevance to sci.crypt, but I felt I should correct
- this factual error in my previous posting.
-
- Tim Smith
-
-
-
- From: mae@vygr.Eng.Sun.COM (Mike Ekberg, Sun {DSGG.DGDO.Mid-Range Graphics.Egret(GS)} MS 8-04)
- Newsgroups: sci.crypt
- Subject: Re: Cloning Razor Blades
- Keywords: Signatures, Authorization
- Message-ID: <4176@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>
- Date: 7 Dec 90 22:46:53 GMT
- References: <1990Nov23.202021.5567@weitek.COM> <3738@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>
- Sender: news@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM
- Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
- Lines: 34
-
- In article <3738@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> mae@vygr.Eng.Sun.COM (Mike Ekberg, Sun {DSGG.DGDO.Mid-Range Graphics.Egret(GS)} MS 8-04) writes:
- >Nintendo actually chose a simpler method. They patented the
- >mechanical connection of the cartridge with the box. I believe the
- >Atari suite was patent infringement on the cart packaging.
-
- After thinking about what I wrote, I realized that I did
- not mean to imply that Nintendo did not use encryption.
-
- And of course the next weekend, the S.F. Chronicle (Dec. 2, 1990, This
- World, p. 7) had an article on Nintnedo by David Sheff.
-
- "Atari Games claimed to have "unlocked the lockout chip, "
- as a Tengen [an Atari Games Corp. subsidary] spokesman puts it,
- and made its own games and sent them to stores. Nintendo
- claims to have proof that Atari Games illegally
- obtained specifications and codes of Nintendo's patented chip
- from the U.S. Patent Office in Washinton.
-
- ...
-
- In Kyoto, Imanishi [Nintendo General Manger]says it is the
- Japanese headquarters that pushed for putting the [lockout]
- chip inside the U.S. bound machines (there is no such chip in Japan)."
-
- On a side note, is it legal to import encryption technology into the
- US?
-
-
-
- --
- # mike \(sun!mae\), M/S 8-04
- "Paying more for petroleum is still cheaper than one day
- of fighting in the Mideast." Henry Kissinger, quoted
- in "Managing in Turbulent Times" Drucker 1980
-
-