Club Amiga de Montreal - CAM/CAM_CD_1.iso/files/270.lha/UltraCard_Browser/ultra.co

Text File | 1989-08-09 | 19KB | 440 lines

Copyright 1989 by CompuServe AmigaForum, Mike Lehman.

A formal conference with Mike Lehman of Intuitive Technologies
was held in AmigaArts conference room 2 on conference room 2 on
2-AUG-1989.  The topic was UltraCard.

The following is a heavily edited transcript of that conference.
Guest speaker's and moderator's comments are identified with
their initials, I.E., "ML:".  Forum members are designated with
their names inside parenthesis, I.E., (Frank Lazar).  Other
editing included the unraveling of interleaved comments,
correction of obvious line noise problems, deletion of unrelated
remarks, and paragraph formatting.  Editorial comments added
after the fact (by me) are presented in square brackets.  The
original, unedited conference transcript will be available
through the end of the month; please contact me if interested.

Thanks to everyone who participated!

                                                 Rick Rae
                                                [76703,4253]

-----------------------------------------------------------------

RR: Let's start rolling.  <Banging gavel>  Welcome all to a
special conference with Mike Lehman of Intuitive Technologies.
Tonight's primary subject: UltraCard, a HyperCard workalike for
the Amiga.  Mike, do you have any opening comments?

ML: Well, first of all, thanks for inviting me to be here.  I just
got back from a very hectic AmiExpo in Chicago.  It was so busy I
couldn't get out of the booth to see what was happening elsewhere.
Of course, that's the way it should be!  Anyway, UltraCard was well
received and DIDN'T CRASH THE ENTIRE SHOW!

RR: Mike, why don't you start by giving us a
general overview of UC and what it can do for us.

ML: Okay. UltraCard is, like the man said, a HyperCard "work-
alike"...  except that it is multi-tasking, color, supports
ARexx, supports multiple resolutions, and of course, runs on an
AMIGA!

The basic idea is that it is an "Application Construction Set"
that allows you to draw your screens with the mouse and create
"gadgets" (we call them objects) and then give life to them by
"scripting", using the built-in language called UltraTalk.
UltraTalk is VERY similar -- but not identical -- to HyperTalk (the
language built into HyperCard from Apple).  We intentionally
strove to make them similar but not identical.

First significant note:  There is nothing to our knowledge that
you can do with HyperCard that you can't do with UltraCard, and
many things -- including REAL HyperText -- that UltraCard can do
that HyperCard can't.

(Frank Lazar) Mike, will you be able to examine or convert
HyprCard stacks to UltraCard?  And, any more Jay Miner Collector
editions?

ML: We are "working" on writing a converter, release date totally
unknown (if ever; it's just a research project at this stage).
As for the second answer, I'll have to ask Jay.  He graciously
offered to sit in our booth [at AmiExpo] and autograph copies.  I
might get him to do it again in SantaClara in October... we'll
see.

(Frank Lazar) That was meant humorously, Mike.  <smile>

ML: By the way, Steve Gillmor, the author of the recent Amazing
Computing article on UltraCard, is also present.

(Steve Gillmor) Greetings, all.

(Jim Ventola) (First, Congratulations!)  I got one of the copies
that arrived in the store today (V. 1.1).  It looks great, but it
crashes a lot.  The stack is fine.  What should the version be?
How do I register, since there is no registration card?  And will
you put some of your BBS files on CIS and Plink for those of us
far away?

ML: Jim, register by sending us your name and address.  We forgot
the registration cards in California before we left for Chicago.
Sorry.

Please send me your configuration and how you crashed it.  There
will be a new revision (to support the programmer's kit) shortly,
and if we can duplicate your problem, we'll fix it in that
release.

Policy Statement:  Updates are free for 90 days; just send in your
disk and a self-addressed stamped envelope (total cost $0.90).

The question about BBS files is that we will, of course, put
significant BBS files up here.  We will probably "zoo" and/or
distill examples, but yes: all information distributed will be
essentially the same for all dissemination paths.

(Jim Ventola) Mike, one thing I keep getting is a requestor
saying "VOLUME ULTRA is FULL".  Hitting CANCEL several times may
or may not get me back to the screen.  Is that a known bug?  I
would have to include a LONG letter to tell of all the
problems...  should I?  I really want to use this for school work.

ML: Please!  We have tested, tested, and tested again but, of
course, we don't have every configuration or every combination at
our disposal.  If you are using it from the CLI please don't
forget to set your stack size to 15000.

Regarding the full disk, I'll look into it.  Right now, every time
you close a stack it writes the global variable settings out to
the file.  In the next release it will be more selective as to
when it needs to do this writing.  The distribution disk we send
out (I hope you are using a copy) is VERY full.  You will
probably need to delete the UCBROWSER to make room to work.

(DavidA) Mike, are you planning to support any music output, such
as SMUS play files or (hopefully) MIDI output from MIDI Format
Files?

ML: We are planning, as soon as possible, to support as many
built-in playing mechanisms as possible.  We are actively looking
for source code that will let us play SMUS, ANIM, etc. If you
know of or have any such code please let me know.

(DavidA) Mike, please don't forget about the Music-X format, which
is being made available by MI, when you work on the music ports.

ML: Sure.  We, right now, support the ability to run external
players with/without ARexx.  But I would like to put players into
the program (somehow) so that all the types of output can be
synchronized.  The programmer's kit will allow us/you to create
libraries which could add such functionality to UltraCard, so if
someone out there doesn't want to give up their proprietary code,
they can write an UltraLib to provide support for UltraCard users.

Thanks. The programmer's kit sounds like a real winner.

(Ethan) Just curious: what language and which program did you use
for UltraCard?

ML: I used C because it was what I used for MaxiPlan (Plan/IT)
and I had much code that I could re-use, such as menus, event
loop, file requesters, etc.  I also used the Manx compiler because
of the same reasons, but I plan (until they catch up to Lattice)
to switch from Manx to Lattice so that I can get prototypes and
register parameters.

(Jim Ventola) Three questions.  What IS the current version and
how do users know if they have it?  Are there plans for CD-ROM
stuff?  Will there ever be an industry-wide standard so all
the stacks and hypertext can be shared easily, especially when
CD-ROM gets cheaper?

ML: The current version is 1.1, and you can tell by the title
bar or the "About" menu item.

I would like to see a graphic-independent HYPERTEXT standard but
I'm afraid that a graphic-independent HYPERMEDIA standard is a
ways off.  We of course use IFF for our images and other systems
could use that, but we are planning a future version that supports
other types of images; no announcement of what types (yet).  I
hope that CD-ROM will catch on and that there will be a standard.
I have always been a big standards person and if there becomes a
standard, we will support it.

(DavidA) Mike, another product that seems like it might have some
similarities to UltraCard is CanDo. I know that it hasn't been
released yet, but can you comment on similarities or differences?

ML: As you have said, it is not released yet.  From their press
it will have an ARexx port, so it can be conversant with
UltraCard.  I think that is all I can say, since anything else
would be premature.  Suffice it to say that we will ALWAYS be
competitive and, at $50, probably more economical.

(DavidA) From their press releases, are the products similar,
do they do different things, or do they have some overlap if not
completely the same?

ML: I really can't tell.  All the information I have is the talk
here and the ad.

(Steve Scherbinski) Mike, I purchased your product at AmiExpo and
I have to wonder why it was released when it was.  The
documentation seems sketchy and the language seems too full of
bugs to be released.

ML: There is on all products a "marketing window" that is
critical.  The printed documentation was intentionally limited,
and there will be much more stack and printed documentation
supplied to people who bought the product.

As to bugs in the language, I welcome your feedback.  We are
committed to fixing, in a rapid manner, all problems.  That is why
we published this one ourselves, having had much experience
publishing through others and having a very long delay between
customer reports and our notification.

(Steve Scherbinski) Thanks, I've got a list that I've been making
which you will get soon.  Is your BBS ever going to get up, I've
tried calling a couple of times and all I get is a recording.

ML: I've been trying to get it going.  I'm using BBS-PC, but have
not been successful in getting it to run with our Apple modem.
I've got another modem I'm going to try tonight after the
conference.

(Avant-Garde Software) Mike, I have two questions.  First, how
would you compare HyperCard to UltraCard in terms of capability,
quality and usefulness?  And, why is UltraCard not available
through dealers and distributors?

ML: First, UltraCard is now available from dealers and is
distributed by American Software Distributors.

Second, capability and usefulness are superior to HyperCard, and
quality will be superior within this month.  We appreciate any
feedback any of our users have and intend to be VERY responsive.
I built UltraCard because I was tired of building applications
the HARD WAY.  This will be my primary vehicle for future
development.  Improvements to come soon include multiple windows,
user definable menus, etc.  Also, as we say in the manual, there
will be a "compiler" version available within 6 months.  I even
plan, someday in the future, to make a "headless" version of our
matrix calculator engine, to be available from UltraCard.

(Avant-Garde Software) So you are saying that UltraCard can be a
system for the development of application software normally
developed in "C", Modula-2, or Assembler?

ML: Surely a system for that.  Probably never a replacement, but
maybe we could figure out a way to make it link easily to
compiled code in C++ or object-oriented Modula, etc.  I'm tired
of debugging the same code for each product, and I'm sure you
folks are too.  HyperMedia for the purposes of communication is
nice, but I eventually want software "chips" so I can encapsulate
a "done" routine.

(Brendan Pratt) Mike, will you be planning a distributor for
Australia?  And secondly, do you plan to, at a later stage, make
up something to make it Hypercard compatible?

ML: I'm looking for overseas distribution now.  If you have any
suggestions, I'm all ears.  As I said earlier, we are "working" on
a translator, but no promises.

(Jim Ventola) I'm curious.  Why is the manual printed sideways,
and do you want a proofreader?  By "compiler version" did
you mean one that would let floppy-run stacks be much faster? And
finally, is anyone porting some of the prize-winning stacks that
already exist over to Ultracard while we wait for possible
conversion programs?  It seems like a good move, though obviously
YOU are busy with the product itself.  Still, I would LOVE to
run some of them.

RR: Jim, sideways?

(Jim Ventola) The top of the page is at the binding.  Or the
bottom if it is a verso page.

ML: The manual was printed sideways for effect; it will be
changing in the future.  If you mean by "proof reader" pages
three and four, we are getting a discount on the printing because
of that!

The compiler will make execution faster.  As we improve the
product the floppy speed will DEFINITELY get faster.  We know of
at least two methods to speed it up, but were unable to get them
in for 1.1.  After all, you can't have everything in a first
release.  Our update policy, for those who just joined us, is
send in your original disk and a SASE within 90 days and we'll
send you the latest version.  If you want to hold on to your disk
(it is NOT copy protected), we will send you a new one for $5.

(Jim Ventola) Hypercard has done a LOT for the Mac, and I think
that Ultracard has the potential to do as much or more for Amiga.
I am glad to see the support you are giving the product.

ML: Thanks!  I agree and think that Commodore/Amiga may yet give
us some support.  (We offered this product to them LAST SEPTEMBER)

(Ethan) I remember reading in the Amazing Computing article that
you were getting a major Apple stack maker to convert some stacks
to UltraCard.  Is that still on, and could you possibly name
names?  (I don't expect you to, though!)

ML: No.  But I'm still working on it.  We are, however, going to
do some major stacks by the end of this month, and I know of some
Amiga product specific stacks by "not-us"... but I can't talk about
that!  If anyone has any ideas and not enough time, I'd be glad to
hear.  By the way, the Apple stack maker has some infiltration
from Ami-oids.

(Ethan) Will all stacks be free, or will any be for cash?

ML: Example stacks will always be FREE.  Commercial stacks -- that
is, stacks that don't demonstrate UltraCard but provide a viable
time/money saving service -- will cost money but will, in
general, cost less than $50.

(Jim Ventola) Is the programmer's kit usable with Modula-2, and
what does it do?  Also, my main interest is in authoring
interactive lessons with Ultracard.  I am not yet sure it can do
all that I want.  How does it compare with VIVA, which Commodre IS
supporting for that purpose?

ML: First, Commodore is not supporting VIVA (to the best of my
knowledge), but is developing their own product.  Second, what do
you want it to do?  We do everything I know they do (I'll talk
about video disk in a minute) except script with icons which, in
my humble opinion, is like programming in FORTH: easy to write
but *ell to maintain.

Regarding video disk, we are just starting a project with the new
Interactive Video Industries Assocication to put a system into a
museum in Washington, D.C. that uses Amigas to show off everyone
else's equipment!  This will be CD-ROM, Video Disk, touch screen,
still camera, genloc and UltraCard based!.  We are also planning
built-in ANIM support.  So tell me, what does VIVA do that we
don't?

RR: Mike, what did you mean by "show off everyone else's
equipment"?

ML: I mean that this museum includes Sony, Panasonic, IBM, Apple,
etc... anyone that produces interactive video.  There will be some
of each, but there will be eleven Amigas!

RR: That sounds more like, perhaps, "show UP everyone else's
equipment"!  <Grin>

(Jim Ventola) Mike, I agree totally about writing in ICONS!  I
don't know that much about VIVA, but a full featured "authoring
system" needs sophisiticated string analysis, almost a parser.  I
would also want to be able to provide students with a simple
editor, etc.

ML: String analysis could be done in UltraTalk.  We have a
simple editor for use within the program.  Let me know what you
need.  We ARE user driven!

(Jim Ventola) About the programmer's kit and Modula-2?

ML: The programmer's kit allows you to call any standard sharable
library, and specially constructed libraries can add statements
to the language, and built-in functions too.

Ok, That's it.  Thanks to all for coming... and UltraCard forever!
(Or at least for a few years!)

RR: The hour is late folks, so I'm going to close this one down.
All are free to chat.  Thanks Mike for coming tonight, and for your
generosity.  <Banging Gavel>

[At this point the formal conference ended, however a few members
remained for some time to continue discussing the particulars of
UltraCard.  The following are excerpts from that discussion.]

(Jim Ventola) Mike, the only way I could use the unzooed extra
stacks was to put them in RAM:; otherwise, I had to swap disks
FOREVER.  How do you use a stack that is on a disk that is not
ultra: and not your boot:?

ML: Jim, you should make a copy, delete the browser, and then put
the unzood stacks on the disk.

(Dave) There isn't an Amiga store near me.  Can I buy UltraCard
direct?

ML: UltraCard is available directly from us for $50 plus $5
shipping and handling.

(Jim Ventola) Mike, could UltraCard check that something IS a
stack before running it?  My students are BOUND to try running
who knows what!

ML: Jim, sure.  It does it okay now, but it will do it better
in the next version.

(Steve Gillmor) Jim, did you crash it by running a stack
that wasn't one?

(Jim Ventola) Steve, yes.  I downloaded browser this morning.
There was with it "FILE1".  I tried to run it and got a pure
white screen.  Then I did a filetype and found that FILE1 was
just browser's icon.

ML: Jim, browser 1.04 didn't work well with non-stacks.  1.1 is
better and beyond 1.1 is great.

(John/TCR) Mike, are you shipping to distributors yet?
(Specifically American.)

ML: Yes.  American sold out of our initial shipment the first
day!

(Jim Ventola) Mike, why did you decide to be close, but not TOO
close, to Hypercard?  Lawyers?  As I understand it, Hypertext is
NOT Apple's idea anyway.

ML: Well, I didn't get a chance to say during the conference, but
I came up with the idea for an application construction kit FIVE
YEARS AGO, and even built a prototype (with an engineering
notebook!), so I'm not really worried about Apple or anyone.
The HyperCard file format is not public domain. I had only three
months to move from prototype to final product and did not have
time to reverse engineer their format.
(Jim Ventola) I have only seen Hypercard once, but I was impressed
by the graphics.  An artist must have been hired for that, and I
maintain that hiring artists and real editors is worth it if you
can afford it.  Ultracard looks almost as nice.

ML: Thanks, I'm no artist but I know one!

(Jim Ventola) Seems to have been a bit of a family project from
the opening of the manual.  Nice!

ML: Jim, you are right.  I'm tired of hiring "professionals" when
my own family and close friends can do just as good... or better.

(Jim Ventola) I have only seen Hypercard once, but I was impressed
by the graphics.  An artist must have been hired for that, and I
maintain that hiring artists and real editors is worth it if you
can afford it.  Ultracard looks almost as nice.

ML: Thanks, I'm no artist but I know one!

(Jim Ventola) Seems to have been a bit of a family project from
the opening of the manual.  Nice!

ML: Jim, you are right.  I'm tired of hiring "professionals" when
my own family and close friends can do just as good... or better.

(Jim Ventola) Mike, did you write the manual yourself?

ML: Yes; I did everything except the logo design which was done
by my wonderful, infinitely patient wife.