Black Box 4/BlackBox.cdr/textinfo/hbd85-.arj/HBD857.TXT

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HOMEBREW Digest #857                    Mon 06 April 1992


 FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
   Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Re: Grain from hell, Yeast/Bacteria ID (Mike Sharp)
  Fix's Review of Jack's Mill (Jack Schmidling)
  RE: Homebrew Digest #856 (April 03, 1992) (SANITY BY WHOSE STANDARDS???)
  Strike two (Bob Hettmansperger)
  Re: Raspberry Ale (Eric Pepke)
  re:raspberry ale (Micheal Yandrasits)
  mead honey recommendation  (Carl West)
  Raspberry Ale (bryan)
  AHA Conference Get-together, thermo/hydrometers (Sterling Udell)
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #856 (April 03, 1992) (Roger Korn)
  Forced carbonation and Mathematica (John Post)
  Duvel recipe (Ralph Kutzner)
  Mead advice (sought) (adiron![e-mail])
  big chillers, line constrictions (NCDSTEST)
  More on ales vs lagers (Conn Copas)
  spent grain disposal  (Eric Mintz)
  Re: EASYMASH  (Eric Mintz)
  homebrew newsletters (K. Haycook)
  Liquid Yeast Question  (Eric Mintz)
  Head color in stouts and porters  (Eric Mintz)
  Brewpubs in Dallas?  (Eric Mintz)
  Re: Y'all come from Micah Millspaw (Tom Quinn 5-4291)
  Brown sugar vs molasses (Conn Copas)
  Why Lager? (John DeCarlo)
  Priming with Molasses ("ACAD3A::FTHAT" )
  CAKE MIXES (Jack Schmidling)
  soda kegs? (Nick Zentena)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Apr 92 6:28:32 EST
From: Mike Sharp <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Grain from hell, Yeast/Bacteria ID

> From: brians <[e-mail]>
>   To Mike Sharp, re the Mash Tun From H*ll:
>   >Yesterday's alpha test recipe was fairly generic (a shock to many who
>   >know me!):
>   >     30lb 6-row pale
>   >      5lb 40L crystal
>
>   Just curious--what do you do with 35lb of waterlogged grain after the
>   mash?
I'm open to suggestions.  I live in a city appartment so I don't need
compost & I don't own any animals that would normally eat the spent grain.
(at least my cat didn't seem interested at the time)

> From: Kathleen T Moore <[e-mail]>
>    Where can I find, or who can provide me with specific info
>    on detection and identification of beer spoiling organisms?
>    Specifically, I'm interested in preparing selective and
>    differential media for the culture of :
 .........

two sources come to mind.  Bergie's (sp?) Bacteriology and _The_Yeasts_
by Lodder & Van Rij, or a trained microbiologist.  I'd suggest the
later route if you don't have any training.  These texts are not easy
bed-time reading and are far from a how-to.  (as far as I can tell
an easy how-to doesn't exist)

There are also a number of different kinds of identification kits that
one can get from places like Roche (sorry, no adress).  They are
essentially tubes of many different media.  You take a sample and
streak it across all of the different media & then observe growth/no growth.
You then compare the results to a big chart & hopefully find out what
you've got.  (of course if what your testing is a mixed cultured of stuff
then you'll probably go crazy trying to match the result up.

>    Does anyone know the cost of a Difco Manual?
Its $25 from Fischer Scientific.  I don't know if the price is better
(or even if it is available) directly from Difco.  I assume it
must at least be available from Difco.  Don't expect this to be a
how-to of identification.  (or even a pointer to a how-to)

 --Mike

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Apr 92 21:11 CST
From: [e-mail] (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Fix's Review of Jack's Mill


 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling

 From: [e-mail] (George J Fix)

 >It seems that every time I would start the review, Jack would send a post to
 HBD insulting someone I liked and respected.

 What goes around, comes around.  I appreciate your tolerance.

 >Jack has gone overboard with respect to safety....

 >Also by by stepping up to 1/2 hp, one could start the mill with grains in
 the hopper.

 I have been told that as little as 1/6 hp will do the trick.  I put the 1/2
 hp motor from my belt sander on one and it scared the hell out of me.

 >Second, the pulley driving the rollers is not rigidly attached to the
 rollers, but rather to a slip disc on the roller shaft. Jack did this
 obiously with safety in mind.

 Actually, I did it because I am unable to get the pulley with a 3/8" bore and
 use a 1/2 to 3/8 bushing.  I should have drilled it out but it did not slip
 when I checked it out.  I will in the future drill it out so the set screw
 seats on the flat ground on the end of the shaft.

 >Congratulations Jack. You have every right to be proud of your mill.

 I am even more proud when the kudos come from someone as highly esteemed as
 you.

 For the record, I am just about out of the surplus rollers that started this
 whole business.  I have found a vendor willing to make a look alike for a
 reasonable price.  The good news is the MALTMILL is here to stay, the bad
 news is the price will go up.  Not quite sure how much but I will hold the
 price till May.

 js




------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Apr 92 06:43:29 PST
From: SANITY BY WHOSE STANDARDS??? <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Homebrew Digest #856 (April 03, 1992)

PLEASE REMOVE MY NAME FROM THE DISTRIBUTION LIST.  THANKS...KEITH

------------------------------

Date: 3 Apr 92 10:00:57
From: Bob Hettmansperger <[e-mail]>
Subject: Strike two

          Strike two

Alas, I have not had much luck with my last two batches (both Pale Ales).  At
the most recent homebrewing club tasting, it was suggested to me that my
problems might be due to DMS and/or/from(?) high fermentation temperature.
According to Miller, high fermentation temps (and excess trub) can lead to
fusals, and DMS can be caused by infection.

The infection part, I can address by being more anal - looks like it might be
back to the bottle scrubber instead of the dishwasher next time.

The temperature part is tougher.  Even though I think my apartment stays about
68 degrees, I live above a pizza shop, and when they fire up the ovens during
the day, the temperature in my apartment probably rises (free heat, but at what
price...).  So, until I begin my search for a new place to live that has a
nice, cool basement, does anyone have any suggestions about what I might be
able to do?  Does anyone have experience with yeasts that work well at higher
temperatures?

Also, does anyone have any good descriptions for what fusals and DMS taste
like?
Thanks,

 -Bob Hettmansperger



------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 3 Apr 1992 10:12:52 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail] (Eric Pepke)
Subject: Re: Raspberry Ale

Anthony Rossini asks about raspberry ale and proposes this recipe:

        5 lbs amber malt syrup
        1-2 pkgs frozen raspberries
        2 oz Cascade hops (boiling)
        1 oz ?? (finishing)
        1/2 lb crystal malt...

It seems to me that the amount of raspberries is much too small.  I find
that, when making raspberry wheat beers, you need to add at least the
equivalent of four pounds of fresh raspberries to get a slight raspberry
aroma and need to add something like six to eight pounds to get any real
raspberry flavor.  That's without much hops to compete with.

In re. pectin, a more important reason not to add the raspberries to the
hot wort is that the heat tends to extract bitterness from the seeds.  I
always put the raspberry pulp in at the secondary fermentation.  Even then
you do get some bitterness from the seeds.

The other thing is that my raspberry beers have all REALLY REALLY benefited
from cold conditioning for a period of time.  Some bottles I even stuck in
the freezer and let become slushy!

Eric Pepke                                     INTERNET: [e-mail]
Supercomputer Computations Research Institute  MFENET:   pepke@fsu
Florida State University                       SPAN:     scri::pepke
Tallahassee, FL 32306-4052                     BITNET:   pepke@fsu

Disclaimer: My employers seldom even LISTEN to my opinions.
Meta-disclaimer: Any society that needs disclaimers has too many lawyers.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Apr 92 11:06:19 est
From: [e-mail] (Micheal Yandrasits)
Subject: re:raspberry ale


Here's my 2 cents on Tony Rossini's query about rasberry ale. I just recently
made such a beer.  First, 1-2 pkgs of frozen raspberries will not be enough.
I used about 8 lbs (11 12oz pkgs) and it turned out wonderfully, not
at all overly raspberry-like. I blended them with just enough water to make
a slurry and added it to the cooled wort (seeds, skins and all).  I also
added 2 camden tablets to ward off infection.  It seems to have worked.
No pectin haze at all.  I racked into a secondary and left most of the
raspberry sludge behind. Here's the rest of the recipie:

 2 Cans Alexanders pale malt extract
 2lbs rice syrup extract
 1 oz Cascades
 8 lbs Frozen Raspberries
 Edme ale yeast

This beer has a very nice mild raspberry flavor, aroma, and color but the
beer character is not lost either. Sounds like what your looking for.

 -Mike






------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Apr 92 10:48:23 EST
From: [e-mail] (Carl West)
Subject: mead honey recommendation

I don't know about specific honeys but as a general rule:

You should use honey that you want your mead to taste like.
If you like the taste of orange blossom honey, you'll probably
like the taste of mead made from it.

(helpful huh?)

Another general rule:

The darker the honey, the longer it will take an aged mead to
mature. (short meads are a whole n'other animal)

Carl

WISL,BM.


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Apr 92 10:09:50 PST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Raspberry Ale


>>Does anyone have suggestions for an extract-based raspberry ale (amounts of
>>raspberries, hops, adjunct grains, even a recipe?)?  I'm thinking about
>>something like:
>>   5 lbs amber malt syrup
>>   1-2 pkgs frozen raspberries

I use a minimum of 2# of raspberries. To maximize the raspberry taste I do not
put them in the boil. Leave 1/2 gallon or so of space in the carboy, then
after the fermentation has started, maybe 1 to 3 days, simmer the raspberries
in some water to sanatize, let it cool some and add it to the fermenting wort.
Usually the simmering does some boiling, but I don't worry.

Bryan Olson

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Apr 92 13:41:07 EST
From: [e-mail] (Sterling Udell)
Subject: AHA Conference Get-together, thermo/hydrometers

I think getting the HBD attendees together during the AHA conference
in June is a great idea.  The first place that comes to mind is the
Water Street Brewery, Milwaukee's only brewpub (to the best of my
knowledge).  That might be pretty crowded the days of the conference,
though.  Another possibility might be a bar called Zirkrone's (sp?),
on the south side - it's a very German place, with an excellent
selection of bottled beers and a copy of the Reinheitsgebot posted on
the wall.  Obviously, there are other bars in the city that would be
enjoyable for homebrewers as well.

There is some appeal to finding a non-bar location as well, but that
would probably depend on a local voulnteering his domicile.  Any
Milwaukee residents on the digest here?  Whaddaya think?

Also, a quick followup to the thermo/hydrometer thread . . . Some
respondents have pointed out that the temperature range for aquariums
is not the same as that for brewing, and hence the thermo/hydrometer
would not be terribly useful.  I maintain that the temperatures where
I care about a hydrometer reading (in the 60-80 degF range) would
probably be covered by the thermometer, so I think one of these might
be convenient anyway.  If I buy one, I'll give a report on its use.
I've never seen them in the Crosby & Baker catalog, though.

String
(who used to live near Milwaukee, and is returning for the conference)
- --
Sterling Udell ([e-mail], [e-mail])
Big Dog Brewing Cooperative - Eastern Division
"Carpe Pisces!"
   -David Smith



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Apr 92 09:30:27 PST
From: [e-mail] (Roger Korn)
Subject: Re:  Homebrew Digest #856 (April 03, 1992)

>Just curious--what do you do with 35lb of waterlogged grain after the
 > mash?

>  Brian Schuth

My wife throws the spent grains into the compost. The l'il red worms turn it into fertilizer in about 2 weeks, thence onto the roses and asparagus patch!

Roger ([e-mail])

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1992 11:31 PDT
From: John Post <[e-mail]>
Subject: Forced carbonation and Mathematica

Hello folks...

Sometime ago, somebody (sorry, lost your name!) posted a table of CO2 volume as
a function of temperature and pressure. Not having anything else going on, and
wanting an excuse to use Mathematica, an associate of mine helped model it. The
data is very planr in nature, and is rather interesting when viewed three
dimensionally. Should anyone be interested in a copy of the Mathematica file, e-
mail me. If I get a huge response, i will attempt to get it on an FTP archive...

john post
[e-mail]



------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 92 05:44:08 EST
From: [e-mail] (Ralph Kutzner)
Subject: Duvel recipe

Hi all

Ive been reading the archives and being a novice brewer I've learnt
a lot.  This digest is a great forum.

I have a recipe request.  I'm an extract brewer and I'm looking for
a recipe for Duvel.  I've looked in the cats_meow, both of them and
in a few books and haven't come up with anything.  If someone has a
recipe or an idea so I can get started in the right direction I would
really appreciate it.

Thanks

- --
 Ralph Kutzner                          [e-mail]
                                        [e-mail]
 Gib mir mein taegliches Bier




------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1992 15:26:12 -0500
From: adiron![e-mail]   (adiron![e-mail])
Subject: Mead advice (sought)

Dear HBD Brewers,

After a dozen extract-based batches of various beer styles, I find myself
tempted to try my hand at mead making.  Rather than being straightforward about
it and making a 5 gallon batch, I would like to split the batch after primary
fermentation into a mead, a metheglin, and a fruit mead (hyppocras?).

My hope/plan is to begin a 5 gallon batch of mead, perform primary fermentation
in a carboy, and then rack into gallon bottles containing appropriate infusions
of herbs and/or pasteurized fruit for secondary fermentation.

I've read a couple of articles on mead making in Zymurgy and TCJOHB and another
small book on mead.  But I still have several questions for this august group.

        1)  Are there pitfalls (other than sanitation) associated with adding
fermentables (in the fruit case) at the time I rack to the secondary fermenter?

        2)  Any suggestions on herbs or spices (and appropriate quantities)
that may make for an interesting metheglin?  Should I prepare an infusion (like
making tea) or use a dry-hopping approach?

        3)  What are recommended types of yeast for mead making?  Any tips on
adjusting the amount of honey (to achieve a medium sweetness) when using
champagne vs. ale (or other) yeast?

        4)  Am I totally crazy with this batch-splitting plan?

Any and all enlightenment will be greatly appreciated.

                                        Yours in brewing,
                                        Scott Barrett


------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 3 Apr 1992 16:09:54 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: big chillers, line constrictions

A question for the larger brewers out there (1BBL brewlength).  What
size is the outlet grant on your kettle.  How long does the chilling
require?  I ask because I intend to take a 1" or larger outlet and
divide it into several 3/8" copper lines to chill in parallel (Mike
Zenters idea, thanks Mike).  Any experience as to geometries and
sizing of the manifolds would be appreciated.  One thing to remember
is that a 1" outlet with ball valve only gives about 1/2 to 3/4"
effective throughput due to ball valve construction. If anyone is
chilling in parallel, how long are the runs and what is the diameter
of the chilling lines.  Thanks in advance.

Jim Busch
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Apr 92 12:39:28 BST
From: Conn Copas <[e-mail]>
Subject: More on ales vs lagers

Something possessed me recently to use Gervin Belgian lager yeast with my best
bitter formulation; generously dry hopped with Goldings; primary ferment
at 12-15 C; no lagering. First impressions were that the brew was 'crisper'
than normal, although obviously plenty fruity. I've had the same experience
with some continental lagers, but not with those from Britain or the US. I
suspect that I was responding to sulphur compounds.

- --
Loughborough University of Technology          tel : [phone]  ext 4164
Computer-Human Interaction Research Centre     fax : [phone]
Leicestershire  LE11 3TU           e-mail - (Janet):[e-mail]
G Britain                 (Internet):[e-mail]


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Apr 92 14:39:57 MST
From: Eric Mintz <[e-mail]>
Subject: spent grain disposal


I haven't had the huevos to try this myself yet but... has anyone dumped
their spent grains in a kitchen sink garbage disposal?  Any other
creative ways to dump spent grains without a mess?  I usually dump them
into a paper grocery sack lined with a plastic garbage bag but it is one
of the messier steps in my brew proceedure (slop over the side,
splashing, etc.).

- --Eric

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Apr 92 14:49:26 MST
From: Eric Mintz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: EASYMASH


Brian Batke writes:

> I wonder about the durability of these kettles. I bought one a few
> months ago. After being used for 4 extract batches, the finish on the
> bottom is wearing off and it's starting to rust. It was washed and
> dried immediately after use.  I hate to think of what it will look
> like after a dozen batches.

I've used my enameled canning kettle for about 10 batches so far.  I got
it from a flee market so I'm sure it has seen much more use than that.
There were a few chipped places in the enamel when I got it but it has
not gotten worse.  My only complaint is that the handles are too weak to
lift the full kettle.  I usually siphon stuff in and out so it's not a
big concern.

- --Eric

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Apr 92 16:13:19 CST
From: [e-mail] (K. Haycook)
Subject: homebrew newsletters


the northtexas homebrewers assoc. is in the process of updating there mailing list for their newsletters. The new address for us  Dis

nthba
c/o Mike Leonard

Wine Magic
AB13931 No,D. Central Expway suite 320
Dallas, Tx. 75243

Any Club wishing to swap newsletter, either send the info to Mike or you can
email me.

thanks,

ken.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Apr 92 15:05:49 MST
From: Eric Mintz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Liquid Yeast Question

Steve Altimari writes:

>  I activated a Wyeast liquid yeast package on Sunday night.  I was
>  planning to do a partial mash Pale Ale Monday night.  The yeast
>  package was just barely starting to expand so I decided to wait
>  another day.  On Tuesday morning the package was definately expanding
>  and as fate has it I was unable to brew Tuesday night.  It is now
>  Wed. morning and the package is seriously expanded and looks like it
>  might explode.

Steve, I had a package of yeast expand so tight that I thought it would
explode.  I sterilized a needle over a flame and made a tiny prick at
the top of the yeast package.  I stored the package in the frige so that
nothing came in contact with the perforation.  I used the yeast (the
same day) and saw no sign of infection.

- --Eric

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Apr 92 15:19:02 MST
From: Eric Mintz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Head color in stouts and porters


[Frank Tutzauer asks about head color in stouts and porters]

Roasted barley is the only ingredient Papazian lists as an agent to
color the head.  Roasted barley, black patent, chocolate malt, and
crystal all darken the beer.

- --Eric

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Apr 92 15:27:08 MST
From: Eric Mintz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Brewpubs in Dallas?


Dear beer enthusiasts, I'm on my way to Dallas on business next weekend
and I was wondering what the favorite brewpubs are in the area (I *know*
the Dallas/FtWorth area is big -- but I've got unlimitted mileage :-).

Thanks in advance!
- --Eric

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Apr 92 17:36:14 CST
From: [e-mail] (Tom Quinn 5-4291)
Subject: Re: Y'all come from Micah Millspaw

Well, Micah's suggestion prompts me to drop an idea I've been wondering
about, but haven't had the chance to think through yet.  One great pastime
in Milwaukee is the tailgate party, an event often raised to an art form by
many of its participants.  During the summer it's a fun way to start off an
evening at the ballpark, while offering a pleasant opportunity to be
outside (albeit surrounded by asphalt), enjoy bratwurst in beer sauce, and
of course sip some homebrew.  And what visit to Milwaukee would be complete
without a chance to watch some famous Brewers?

So my idea is to have a tailgate party get-together one evening of the AHA
conference.  The Brewers are in town the evenings of June 9th and 10th
against Oakland.  Since the evening of the 10th is the opening reception of
the conference, I think the 9th would be better.  Beer consumption is
allowed in the County Stadium parking lots (though the best you'll see
inside the park is Leinenkugel's).

Tailgate parties often continue long past the start of the game, so folks
who are not baseball fans should not be shy about coming - you don't have
to actually attend the game to enjoy yourself.  And of course many good
parties have enough momentum to resume right where they left off once the
game has ended...

Consider this a proposal I'm sending out to gauge interest in such an
event.  If enough folks would enjoy this type of outing, I'd be happy to
head up an effort to put it together (I live in the Milwaukee area).  Of
course, if most people would rather not meet at the ballgame, but still
want to meet somewhere else, I could probably help arrange that instead.

Let me know!

Tom

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Apr 92 19:03:25 BST
From: Conn Copas <[e-mail]>
Subject: Brown sugar vs molasses

A small point, but important perhaps. If your brown sugar flows freely, then it
is probably white sugar with caramel colouring added. Pick the sticky stuff -
I use 1 lb dark muscuvado to add interest to old ales without thinning the brew
out too much. Molasses or treacle are useful sources of unfermentables, but I
have trouble finding a place for that sort of taste sensation in any brew. I
can only presume that dark sugars are a step along the refinement continuum.

- --
Loughborough University of Technology          tel : [phone]  ext 4164
Computer-Human Interaction Research Centre     fax : [phone]
Leicestershire  LE11 3TU           e-mail - (Janet):[e-mail]
G Britain                 (Internet):[e-mail]


------------------------------

Date: Wednesday, 1 Apr 1992 09:42:37 EST
From: [e-mail] (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Why Lager?
Full-Name:

Jack S. said:
>Thank you.  Just for a refreser, although this thread turned
>into a sales pitch for Wyeast, my original intent was to
>understand why commercial brewers, who are so terribly cost
>conscious, would spend so much money to produce lager when their
>typical customer could not possibly tell the difference.

The usual answer, from my reading on the subject, is that it is
much easier to make lagers with no taste and no aftertaste than
it is ales.  This was certainly true some years ago, and whether
it is true any more, with newer techniques, I can not say.

Internet: [e-mail] (or [e-mail])
Fidonet:  1:109/131

------------------------------

Date:     Sat, 04 Apr 92 21:18:56 -0900
From: "ACAD3A::FTHAT"  <[e-mail]>
Subject:  Priming with Molasses

Last week I bottled an Imperial Stout.  I primed with 2/3 to 3/4
of a cup of black-strap molasses.  I opened a bottle last night to
see how it was coming.  It was the most highly carbonated beer I have
ever opened.  Now I'm beginning to wonder if the wimpy bottles I used
will explode.  (Not worrying -- yet.)  The batch was 6 gallons and
should qualify as a barley wine.  I used 12 lbs of liquid malt extract,
1 lb of dry malt extract, and about 1.5 lb partial mash of specialty
grains.  Being lazy I did not measure initial and terminal specific
gravity.  I used an attenuative yeast for 1 week primary @ 70 degrees
F and 1 week secondary @ 64 degrees F.  Fermentation appeared to
be over.  The beer tastes strong and immature but not sweet.

Does anyone have experience/advice regarding priming with molasses?
Heidi
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Apr 92 08:40 CDT
From: [e-mail] (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: CAKE MIXES


 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling

 The following exchange indicates that I seem to have forgotten to put on my
 dancing shoes again....

 >From: [e-mail]

 >  Fred Condo Sez:

  >  That he just switched to all grain from extract and felt it was a
 painless process

   >In reply to this, Arf Sez:

  > "Congratulations!  Welcome to the club of real homebrewers."


  > To This I say:

  > Jack, your attitude bit is stuck.  Just because someone doesn't do all
 grain doesn't mean they aren't "real" homebrewers.

 I received several similar letters from readers and don't know whether to
 laugh or cry.  For the record, I did not intend to insult anyone but if
 congratualting someone constitutes an insult, there is little hope for any
 meaningful dialog.

 >  It's like a 'C' programmer telling an ADA programmer 'You`re not a real
 programmer because you don't use C'.

 Not even close.  It is more like the difference between baking with cake
 mixes and baking from scratch.  Women/cooks accept the difference, why can't
 homebrewers?

 >Many people don't have the time, money, or desire to go all grain.  (Right
 now I don't have the time, and it *is* more time consuming).

 >  Enough said.

 Not enough at all.  Vote the county dry and move out of town?

 You can not negate the value and effort of people who DO devote "the time,
 money or desire to go all grain" simply by declaring that YOU don't have the
 time, anymore than my statement reduces the value of what you are doing.

 Although the definition of a "real homebrewer" might be subject to debate, I
 don't think there can be much debate about the fact that making extract beer
 is NOT really brewing.  That's not to say it isn't fun, rewarding and great
 beer, just that mashing is a fundamental step in the brewing process, without
 which, one is simply making beer.

 >From: Bob Jones <[e-mail]>

 >ps. Since Jack Schmidling lives in the area of the conference I hope he
 can attend I would like to meet him. I am certain that interesting
 conversation would insue.

 I will be there with bells on and a MALTMILL in tow.

 >From: [e-mail]
 Subject: AHA Conference Milwaukee

 >The AHA conference will be June 9 to 13 at the Marc Plaza Hotel
 Milwaukee.

 >For full details contact:
 AHA Conference
 PO Box 1679
 Boulder CO 80306
 [phone]
 [phone] fax

 How bout posting a few details and save the paper shuffle.  What is the
 schedule.  I am not likely to want to spend three days so I would like to
 pick that day based on some rationale.

 js



------------------------------

Date:        Sat, 4 Apr 1992 19:00:00 -0500
From: Nick Zentena <[e-mail]>
Subject: soda kegs?


        Hi,
                Could someone explain to me how to tell the
                difference between pin and ball lock kegs?

                Also are the 10gallons kegs the same except
                for the size?
                Thanks
                Nick
- ---
 ~ DeLuxe} 1.21 #9621 ~ [e-mail]
- --
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #857, 04/06/92
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 * PCB/UseNet Gateway from Sparkware #1