World of Ham Radio 1994 January/AMSOFT_1994.iso/packet/docs/pd199110.doc

Text File | 1993-12-31 | 232.4 KB | 6,079 lines

Tue,  1 Oct 91 04:30:08 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
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Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #252
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Tue,  1 Oct 91       Volume 91 : Issue 252

Today's Topics:
            Concurrent sessions under DOS?
            Packet with IC-W2A??? (3 msgs)
            Wanted: Info on AX.25

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 30 Sep 91 15:41:35 GMT
From: usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!jato!spa1![e-mail]
Subject: Concurrent sessions under DOS?
To: [e-mail]

You should have no problem using Desqview to do multitasking.  At home,
I run packet in one task using COM1, while running Telix with a landline
BBS using COM2, and doing word processing in a 3rd foreground task.

------------------------------

Date: 30 Sep 91 11:18:00 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Packet with IC-W2A???
To: [e-mail]

Has anyone used the Icom IC-W2A for packet? How is the tnc interfaced to
the W2A (note that the W2A microphone connector is different than that used
in other icom products)?

Tom, N9CGD

------------------------------

Date: 30 Sep 91 13:17:56 GMT
From: pa.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!regent.enet.dec.com![e-mail]
Subject: Packet with IC-W2A???
To: [e-mail]

    The interface for the W2 would be the same as for any other Icom walkie
with the exception that you would use a single 3 conductor plug. The standard
interface for Icom's is one plug with ground and mic/PTT and the other is ground
and spkr. The W2 is the same in that the two grounds become one and connect to
the shell of the plug. The spkr out is the tip, and the mic/PTT is the ring. It
works exactely the same as the standard Icom interface.

    /s/     Bob Gettys N1BRM

------------------------------

Date: 30 Sep 91 15:49:32 GMT
From: aramis.rutgers.edu!remus.rutgers.edu!furs.rutgers.edu![e-mail]
Subject: Packet with IC-W2A???
To: [e-mail]

I have used my W2A with a PK-232 for packet with no problems. Like the
other post said- you hook it up just like the old icoms except that
everything gets connected to the one plug instead of two plugs like on
the "g" series HT's.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| Tim Hayes   N2KBG              | No beast so fierce but knows some touch  |
| Rutgers College of Engineering | of pity, but I know none and therefore   |
| [e-mail]       | am no beast.                             |
| [phone]                  |                                          |
_____________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: 30 Sep 91 23:55:26 GMT
From: news.mentorg.com!mntgfx![e-mail]
Subject: Wanted: Info on AX.25
To: [e-mail]

Looking for information about AX.25, i.e. the document that
describes the protocol.  I have early versions of such documents,
but they pre-date version 2 of the protocol.  I'm looking for
the full spec - state tables, transition diagrams, etc.

Is there a machine readable version available?

What organization maintains the standard for the protocol?

Is a similar document available for the NET/ROM (and
friends) protocols?

   ...  Hank
--

Hank Oredson @ Mentor Graphics
Internet     : [e-mail]
Amateur Radio: [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 1 Oct 91 01:10:55 GMT
From: mvb.saic.com!unogate!orion.oac.uci.edu!usc!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!bronze![e-mail]
To: [e-mail]

References <.dev.null%UCSD.EDU@Sdsc>, <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>ro
Subject : Re: Concurrent sessions under DOS?

Likewise, we're running Desqview on a packet BBS to juggle NOS and
several W0RLI tasks at once. We've turned a 386 into a multi-user
BBS system with 4 radio links plus Ethernet.


--
 John Stigall - Indiana University Computing Services Network  | Amateur Radio
  750 N. State Rd. 46 Bypass, Bloomington, Indiana 47405       |  N 9 L K L
    [phone]            [e-mail]           |  @K9IU.IN

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #252
******************************
Date: Wed,  2 Oct 91 04:30:02 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
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Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #253
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Wed,  2 Oct 91       Volume 91 : Issue 253

Today's Topics:
        KISS TNC in Heath Pocket-Packet HK-21?
                PACKET
            Wanted: Info on AX.25

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 1 Oct 91 14:37:30 GMT
From: mvb.saic.com!unogate!orion.oac.uci.edu!usc!wupost!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!mcdphx!phx.mcd.mot.com![e-mail]
Subject: KISS TNC in Heath Pocket-Packet HK-21?
To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Joachim Astel) writes:
: I have got a Heath Pocket-Packet HK-21. It is equipped with a TAPR-like
: software and a mini-bbs (or mailbox), but unfortunately it seems not to
: have the capability of the "KISS TNC" mode.
:
:       -Achim
: --
: Joachim Astel, Wiesenweg 4, W-8566 Leinburg, Germany - S & F: DL9NCQ @ DB0BOX
: E-MAIL: [e-mail], [e-mail]

I think that Bdale (at col.hp.com) has the "ROM image" of KISS for the
pocket packet available for ftp.  Try ftp to "col.hp.com", login anonymous,
and look in the directory "/packet/etc/firmware".  The file I think you
want is:
-rw-r--r--   1 2868     105        32768 Dec 26  1989 u21_kiss.rom
Bdale's mail address is:  "[e-mail]".

Good luck!
73 . . . Dave Fritsche (wb8zxu)
[e-mail] (Tempe, AZ)

------------------------------

Date: 1 Oct 91 17:00:00 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: PACKET
To: [e-mail]

SUBSCRIBE PACKET AODH DALTON

------------------------------

Date: 1 Oct 91 11:16:42 GMT
From: ucselx!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!munnari.oz.au!metro!macuni!ipc04![e-mail]
Subject: Wanted: Info on AX.25
To: [e-mail]

Hi Hank. I don't know if it is what you want but try the book available from
the ARRL "AX.25 Amateur Packet-Radio Link-Layer Protocol, Version 2.0
October 1984". ISBN 0-87259-011-9.  This describes the version 2.0 of AX.25
and contains the state tables etc. Cheers.
...Steve [e-mail]
[e-mail]
.

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #253
******************************
Date: Thu,  3 Oct 91 04:30:04 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
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Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #254
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Thu,  3 Oct 91       Volume 91 : Issue 254

Today's Topics:
            Concurrent sessions under DOS?
             High speed packet ?
                packet penpal
           Packet Software for TRS Color Computer?

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 1 Oct 91 16:17:35 GMT
From: ucselx!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!crdgw1!ge-dab!edus![e-mail]
Subject: Concurrent sessions under DOS?
To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Rick Patterson) writes:

>I am interested in running packet software (Lan-Link??) concurrently with
>another chunck of software (Bigmouth produced by Talking Technology) that
>answers my telephone.  Machine would be a '286/16.  I am thinking about
>using Double-Dos.  Anyone had any experience doing this?  I know some
>software has trouble servicing serial ports while runnign in the background.
>Comments/suggestions?
Multiple tasks under DOS and a '286 can be tricky. Adding interrupts from a
serial port tend to shorten the string a bit more. If you want something
that is (a) solid, (b) runs under DOS [ where us proletariats live ], the
way to go
    Digital Research Multiuser DOS and a '386 machine
---

------------------------------

Date: 2 Oct 91 19:46:58 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: High speed packet ?
To: [e-mail]

Good Day,

  I'm wondering if anyone might assist me in finding information regarding high
speed radio/packet networks, both ham and/or commercial.  I'm aware that there
is a group in Ga. who's running 56kbps.  Can anyone tell me who I would speak
with down there, or elsewhere in the country, regarding links >9.6kbps?  I'm
interested to know what radio (&mods), frequencies, modes, modulation
techniques, rates and distances transversed, in which people have experimented
with.  I'd also be interested in knowing successes and failures those persons
have encountered, as well.

Any info is more than welcome. Please respond direct and thanks for your time.

        andy (ka1gd)    202-767-2493

        [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 2 Oct 91 02:14:00 GMT
From: sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu![e-mail]
Subject: packet penpal
To: [e-mail]

I am interested in receiving/sending mail to other hams via packet radio in
some place besides my only contact who lives about 5 or ten miles from me.
Please reply here in e-mail.

And at the same time I need some help with getting my pbbs to work.  I am using
a KAM and have config'd it according to the manual.  I had someone try to
connect and he said all he got was the connect message and nothing more.  The
manual said to set the PBCALL to something different than MYCALL, ALIAS, etc,
which I did.  Any suggestions?

TNX and 73 de JT, N8PUY

------------------------------

Date: 2 Oct 91 16:10:35 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Packet Software for TRS Color Computer?
To: [e-mail]

A friend of mine has a TRS Color Computer (10 years old?).  While he
already runs packet on an IBM clone he'd like to know if any software
exists for the TRS antique.

Thanks - Rob N7KCG

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #254
******************************
Date: Fri,  4 Oct 91 04:30:18 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #255
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Fri,  4 Oct 91       Volume 91 : Issue 255

Today's Topics:
             (QLD) VK4 AX.25 Network Map
            (SE-QLD) VK4 Multi-Mail System
             Alinco DR-1200T (Data Radio)
               AmigaNOS v2.8h available
          Communications, any way w/o phone lines...
            How Do I Get Started?
              Kantronics RF Packet Modem
         Looking for C64/C128 packet software
            New test version of AA4RE BBS
            Terminal Emulator for TI449A?
              tnc220 host mode firmware

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 3 Oct 91 16:54:00 GMT
From: munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!qut.edu.au![e-mail]
Subject: (QLD) VK4 AX.25 Network Map
To: [e-mail]

        QUEENSLAND DIGIPEATER/BBS LIST 03-10-91.

                               +-------:-------+
   MOUNT ISA                                           :  TOWNSVILLE   :
  (B) VK4WII            (B) VK4AFS-1 (144.900/14.105)..: VK4RAT 144.900:
      (14.107)                                         +---------------+

                     (B) VK4AJL-1 (MACKAY)
             (144.900/10.145/14.105) :
                         :
             +----------------+      :
             : PINE MOUNTAIN  :......:
+--------------+.....: VK4RZM 144.900 :
:HODGSON RANGE :     +--------:-------+
:VK4RHR 144.900:     +--------:-------+
+--------------+.....: BLACKDOWN      :
          ...: VK4RBD 144.900 : +---------------+
          :  +-----:----------+ :  ROCKHAMPTON  :
          :        :............: VK4RAR 144.900:..(B) VK4AKT-1
      TIERI...:                     +--:------------+ (144.8/144.9)
  (B) VK4UN-1 (144.900)         +----------:----+
                :    GLADSTONE  :
                : VK4RGA 144.900:
                +-------:-------+
                +-------:-------+
    (B) VK4CAB-1 (144.900)..:   BUNDABERG   :
                : VK4RBU 144.900:
                +-------:-------+
                    :
                    :
                    :          GYMPIE
                 ...........:..........(B) VK4PY-1 (144.900)
           +---------:-------+  +---------+
           :     MALENY      :  : NAMBOUR :     SUNSHINE COAST
           : VK4RZC DUAL PORT:  : VK4RZS  :.(B)VK4KEL-1 (144.900)
           : 144.900/147.600 :  : 144.975 :             (144.975)
           +------*---:------+  +---------+
              *   :.........(B) VK4FEA-1 LAWNTON
              *                 (144.925/14.095)
              *                 (FORWARD 144.900 only)
              *
           ********
           *                     (B) VK4WIA-1 BRAY PARK
+----------------+ *   +----------------+    (144.850/434.200)
:  MT MOWBULLAN  : *   :  MT COOT-THA   :(B) VK4KJB-1 NORMAN PARK
: VK4RZE 147.600 : *   : VK4RZB 144.850 :    (144.875)
:   /144.825     : *   +----------------+(B) VK4CXX-1 17 MILE ROCKS
+--------*-------+ *                         (144.825/434.200 DD BBS)
     ***********                     (B) VK4BBS-1 8 MILE PLAINS
     *         *                      (144.725/14.111/21.105/109/113)
+--------*-------+ * +-----------------+ (B) VK4ATI-1 ASPLEY (144.750)
: MT PERSEVERENCE: * :   MT COTTON     : (B) VK4SF-1 IPSWICH (144.950/14.105)
: VK4RZD 147.600 : * : VK4RBT-3 145.050: (B) VK4DIT-1 GOLD COAST (144.725)
+--------*-------+ * +---------------@-+
     **********************      @
                  *      @   (F) VK4KIV-1 QDG TCP/IP HOST.
                  *      @       QUT Kedron Park Campus(145.150)
+--------------+              *      @   (M) VK4DGQ-4 QDG Mail Server.
: IPSWICH LAN  :              *      @     *  = 147.600 Path
:VK4RWM 144.950:              *      @     :  = 149.000 Path
+--------------+ +------------*---+  @     @  = 145.050 Path
         :  SPRINNGBROOK  :  @    (B) = BULLETIN BOARD.
         : VK4RZA 147.600 :  @    (M) = Dedicated Mail Server
         +----------------+  @          (CLOSED SYSTEM)
                     @    (F) = TCP/IP File Server
- - - - - - - - - - - QUEENSLAND - - @ - - NEW SOUTH WALES BORDER - - -
                @@@@@@@@@@
             +--@---------------+
             : MT NARDI ( NSW ) :       LISMORE
             : VK2RPL LISMORE   :   (B) VK2YDN-1
             : 145.050/UHF....  :   (145.050/UHF....)
             : ( ROSE NODE )    :
             +------------------+

NOTES:-
1. VK4RZS Nambour Local Area Network frequency 144.975.
2. VK4RZE 144.825 Local Area Network node due for installation April/May
   1991. Another digipeater on 144.825 in the Toowoomba area, linking
   Mt Mowbullan, due for installation May/June 1991.
3. VK4DGQ-1 is the Queensland Digital Group INC Mail Server. Its function
   is to send Mail to the other BRISBANE BBS's ONLY. It is a closed
   system. I.E. Doesn't allow connection by users, so please don't try.
4. VK4ZGJ-1 will be temporarily OFF-LINE.

have any other changes, please send them to me. Regards,
                            Steve.....
(QLDNET Co-ordinator and SYSOP VK4FEA BBS)

 --
   Andy  VK4KIV    - QUT Kedron Park Campus
   AX.25 TCP/IP    - [e-mail]
   AARNet/Internet - [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 3 Oct 91 17:04:09 GMT
From: ogicse!emory!samsung!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!qut.edu.au![e-mail]
Subject: (SE-QLD) VK4 Multi-Mail System
To: [e-mail]


                   NORTH

 +-----------------+
 -LAWNTON VK4FEA-1 -
 -144.925          -..................................
 +-----------------+                                 :
                             :
 +------------------+                                :
 -BRAY PARK VK4WIA-1-                                :
 -144.850           -........................        :
 +------------------+                       :        :
                        :        :
 +-----------------+                        :        :
 -ASPLEY VK4ATI-1  -                        :        :
 -144.750          -................        :        :
 +-----------------+               :        :        :
                   :        :        :
                  +:--------:--------:---+
                  - BOWEN HILLS VK4DGQ-1 -
                  - FREQUENCY AGILE MAIL -
                  - FORWARDING SYSTEM... -
                  +:--:-------:------:---+
                   :  :       :      :
 +----------------------+          :  :       :    +-:------------------+
 -17 MILE ROCKS VK4CXX-1-..........:  :       :    -NORMAN PARK VK4KJB-1-
 -DARLING DOWNS BBS.....-             :       :    -144.875             -
 -144.825               -             :       :    +--------------------+
 +----------------------+             :       :
                      :       :
 +----------------+...................:       :
 -IPSWICH VK4SF-1 -                           :
 -144.950         -                           :
 +----------------+                           :
                          :
                          :
                      +---:--------------------+
                      - 8 MILE PLAINS VK4BBS-1 -
                      - 145.050                -
                      +------------------------+

VK4DGQ-1 is a closed system, only allowing connection by the BBS'S shown
in the map. Should the system fail, there is a back-up redundancy plan in
place. All Private mail is forwarded 24 hours a day, and Bulletins are
forwarded between 11pm and 6am daily.

Hope you find this information of some interest. If you have any other
questions to VK4ZGJ who maintains VK4DGQ-1.

The mail server is a 286 with an 80 meg Hard Disk, running Software by
AA4RE. The Server currently connects in the following order:-
VK4BBS
VK4CXX
VK4FEA
VK4KJB
VK4SF
VK4ATI
VK4WIA
It cycles the above every hour, 24 hours a day. The TNC is a PK-88 that has
been modified and now is capable of doing up to 256 external commands. It is
currently controlling the memory channels in the ICOM IC-28A radio. This method
gives it its flexibility.

 --
   Andy  VK4KIV    - QUT Kedron Park Campus
   AX.25 TCP/IP    - [e-mail]
   AARNet/Internet - [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 2 Oct 91 19:45:59 GMT
From: ogicse!emory!att!cbnewsj![e-mail]
Subject: Alinco DR-1200T (Data Radio)
To: [e-mail]

I have not heard anybody mention this and I assume that it's probably
not on the streets yet so I thought I'd mention it. In my persuit in
possibily upgrading my QRP packet station (5W HT) I've come across
the Alinco DR-1200T (Data Radio) in the literture they sent me.
They don't have any flyers on the radio but over the phone they
described it as a DR-122T but at 25 watts output and a cable for
connecting to a TNC instead of a mike. Unfortunatly I didn't think
to ask the price difference. I'm still considering the DR-110T and
wonder if the problem with the bulb burning out is a problem. Since the
rig will spend probably 90% of the time on a specific frequency I don't
think the bulb burning out would really bother me much anyway.

The guy at Alinco said they are also planning on selling 220 gear
sometime soon.

73 DE KB2GLO, Tom.

--
Tom Kenny, KB2GLO
UUCP: ...!att!mtuxo!tek              Internet: [e-mail]
Packet Radio: kb2glo@n2kzh..nj.usa   AMPR: [e-mail] [44.64.0.10]

------------------------------

Date: 2 Oct 91 11:38:54 GMT
From: mcsun!uknet!ukc!mucs!mccuts![e-mail]
Subject: AmigaNOS v2.8h available
To: [e-mail]

The latest copy of AmigaNOS (The Amiga port of the KA9Q TCP/IP system) is
now available on jh.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.202.27] using anonymous FTP.  The
filename is KIT28H.LZH, but is not a complete kit of NOS but just some
of the changed extra files.  The Listserv option has been removed until
I get it working correctly.  The DIR/LS commands (and W from the mailbox)
use the ARP 1.3 version of LIST and so I have included that along with
the ARP.LIBRARY.  The more command on the NOS menu has been replaced by
a call to the excellent LESS program, which is also used by the NOS help
command to display extracts from the NOS manual.  I have included the
NOS command help files (most of them anyway!) which should be placed in
the Spool/Help directory.

John.

p.s.  The PCSX here will be left on overnight between 1800 hrs GMT and
      0900 hrs GMT, most nights during the week.  The last time I put
      a file on the PCSX, there were over 50 people grabbing a copy over
      a period of 3 days, from all corners of the globe.  (not to mention
      all the other files in the directory)
--
Email: [e-mail]          Packet: [e-mail]7NWP.#16.GBR.EU (QTHR)
              NRS Central Administrator,
      MCC Network Unit, The University, Oxford Road, Manchester,  M13-9PL
          Phone: [phone], FAX: [phone]

------------------------------

Date: 3 Oct 91 18:05:27 GMT
From: intran![e-mail]
Subject: Communications, any way w/o phone lines...
To: [e-mail]

> >on commercial frequencies. It's often used for packet, but has been used
> >as a straight synchronous modem to transmit very high fidelity digitized
> >voice.
>
> I would like to get the company name and number.  I am also curious about
> a few things.
>
>   How does this unit id itself?
In AX.25 the station ID is the packet address.
>   Does it operate in a packet manner?  Only transmitting when there is
>     something to send?  Or is it more like a modem? You must tell it
>     to connect, then have your session and hang it up?
There is a virtual connect, and disconnect, but only transmits when
there is something to send.
>   Can it or does it monitor the "link" to make sure it doesn't stomp on
>     someone else?
It does monitor, CSMA/CD (Carrier Sense Multiple Access with Collision
Detection) is built into the packet protocol.  There is always the chance
2 modems will be listening, hear nothing, then decide to transmit at the
same time.  The Collision Detection scheme will take care of this.
>   Why can't the unit operate on commercial frequencies?
To get FCC type acceptance would cost a lot of $$$, and the GRAPES folks
are just amateurs (i.e. barely any money).  The FCC is very critical of
the use of frequencies, and as such, anyone that can get an amateur license
is allowed to build and modify stuff used on the amateur frequencies,
comercial frecuencies require the technical person to have a special
licsense.  (Sounds kinda CYA -- you make a mistake, they pull your ticket
so you cant make the mistake again :-()
>
> Myself and several friends are within close range of the office(s) and would
> like a high speed link, purely for personal items.  I would come into work
> for commercial business.  But this does bring up the point that our news/mail
The no code tech class license would be the way to go, if you already
understand basic electronics, and are able to do a little rules memorizing,
you ought to pass the FCC no code technicians test.  You can run TCP/IP
all over the place, and there are amateur radio sattelites available with
store and forward mailboxes, so you don't have to be just local.
> -Alan Arndt
> [e-mail]

Tom Brusehaver
WD0EIB @WB0GDB
uunet!intran!tom

------------------------------

Date: 2 Oct 91 20:09:55 GMT
From: ogicse!uwm.edu!caen!hellgate.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu![e-mail]
Subject: How Do I Get Started?
To: [e-mail]

Sorry if this is a FAQ but I didn't see one anywhere.  I would like to know
what is the minimum set-up required for packet radio.  I already have a 386/25
running DOS and a UNIXPC so I'm only interested in the radio end of things.
I'm in an apartment as well, can I do anything without a big antenna?  Where
can I find used equipment?  Finally, what licencing is required?

Email or post
Thanks
Edgar Tooley

------------------------------

Date: 3 Oct 91 00:15:54 GMT
From: nosc!news.hawaii.edu!munnari.oz.au!metro!ipso![e-mail]
Subject: Kantronics RF Packet Modem
To: [e-mail]

[ Most of us would simply call it a "TNC", but read on... ]

I picked up this thing at a "hamfest" recently.  It has all the trimmings
of a TNC - even the command set, with one or two exceptions, but the manual
is suspiciously devoid of any reference to Amateur radio, TNC, BBS, AX.25 etc.
Even the "connect" examples use names such as "BOB" etc.  It looks like an
Amateur product sanitised for the commercial market.  The box itself looks
like a KPC-2 (according to a photo in a book I have - I've never seen one)
and has the usual complement of LED's, except that PTT and CD are called TX
and RX respectively.  The CALibrate command, instead of toggling between
high and low tones, generates a square wave on transmit, and expects a
square wave on receive, upon which it display two numbers, which are supposed
to be equal (is this a Kantronics standard?).

Anyway, it's all hooked up and raring to go, but it won't decode a single
packet!  It doesn't get digipeated through the local repeater!

So, either I've made some gross error with audio levels (I doubt it,
the tones sound normal on xmit and DCD lights up on rcv) or, just possibly,
it doesn't use AX.25 ...  You know, NRZI, HDLC and all that...  If it
helps, the EPROM rev is 2.03 (the same as the one in the photo, in fact).

Pulling it apart shows there is no HDLC engine inside, such as an 8273,
but a 6303 (?) microprocessor, a 7910, a 2400 bps modem chip, and sundry
glue logic etc.

Has anyone seen one of these things?  Do I need an "amateur" EPROM for it?

--
Dave Horsfall (VK2KFU)         VK2KFU @ VK2RWI.NSW.AUS.OC
[e-mail]                  ...munnari!ips.OZ.AU!dave

------------------------------

Date: 3 Oct 91 04:31:32 GMT
From: bonnie.concordia.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca![e-mail]
Subject: Looking for C64/C128 packet software
To: [e-mail]

The subject says it all!

I have the software that came with the packet kit from Ramsey Electronics.
Although it works okay, I would like to find out if there is any other software
out there.  (Support for 80 columns would be very nice...)
Either Commodore 64 or 128 versions are okay.

Thanks.

--
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 4 Oct 91 02:07:29 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: New test version of AA4RE BBS
To: [e-mail]

I just put a new test version of my BBS program on both ucsd.edu
and tomcat.gsfc.nasa.giv.  Its version 2.1S.

Enjoy

Roy, AA4RE

------------------------------

Date: 3 Oct 91 21:46:07 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Terminal Emulator for TI449A?
To: [e-mail]

Recently posted a query for a Terminal Emulator (TE) for a TRS Color
Computer.  Have been told there is one but still haven't the source,
name, price, etc. about it.

Now, another friend (HAM to be) has a TI449A - Is there a TE for it?

Thanks,

ROBERT GIDEN, N7KCG                   Packet: [e-mail]
Tel: [phone] (Hm:509/229-3472)   Fax: [phone]
BITnet: [e-mail]           Internet: [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 2 Oct 91 00:36:03 GMT
From: ogicse!qiclab!nosun!techbook![e-mail]
Subject: tnc220 host mode firmware
To: [e-mail]

I downloaded a program called SP from Compuserve that uses a tnc with
wa8ded style host mode firmware.  The archive came with firmware from
Nord<>Link's version of firmware for the tnc2 and the tnc220 (pac com).
This was the first time I saw firmware for the tnc220.  It is version
"The Firmware Version 220-1.1 (2.1d) and dated 09.11.88.  It has a bug
in it which causes the 8530 to hang in mid-packet like it missed an
interrupt.... Anyway, the question:  Does anyone know where to find
"Host Mode" firmware for the tnc220... a different version or a newer
version?  I would love to be able to run SP and ARES/DATA not to mention
having a reasonable interfact between the tnc and a computer.

73 Lowell



--
Lowell Brunson
KC7DX @ W0RLI.OR.USA.NA (Packet Radio Only!)
[e-mail]  ...!{tektronix!nosun,uunet}techbook!lowell
Public Access UNIX at [phone] (1200/2400) Voice: [phone]

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #255
******************************
Date: Sat,  5 Oct 91 04:30:08 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #256
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Sat,  5 Oct 91       Volume 91 : Issue 256

Today's Topics:
        Alinco DR-1200T (Data Radio) (2 msgs)
         linking widely separated ROSE nodes
            Starting out on packet

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 4 Oct 91 14:56:06 GMT
From: ogicse!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!bronze![e-mail]
Subject: Alinco DR-1200T (Data Radio)
To: [e-mail]

The scoop is that this radio will be out late this year, early next
year. That's all that Alinco will tell us. It's a *REAL* good idea and
there are several of us who hope it will work well at 9600 bps with the
Kantronics Data Engine. The DRV2-2 is not working well at our 9600 LAN
site due to intermod and the proximity to a weather service
transmitter. You can actually hear the weather on the DRV2-2
earphone...besides we'd like more power at the hub site.

Now I wonder, if Alinco plans a 440 version of the rig...inquiring
minds want to know.


--
 John Stigall - Indiana University Computing Services Network  | Amateur Radio
  750 N. State Rd. 46 Bypass, Bloomington, Indiana 47405       |  N 9 L K L
    [phone]            [e-mail]           |  @K9IU.IN

------------------------------

Date: 4 Oct 91 17:06:13 GMT
From: ogicse!emory!att!cbnewsj![e-mail]
Subject: Alinco DR-1200T (Data Radio)
To: [e-mail]

Maybe we should write to Alinco and suggest the desire for 9600 baud
usability as well as a 440 version... My guess is that they are not thinking
along these lines but rather are thinking of all those people that want
a cheap 2 meter plug and play 1200 baud packet station. They didn't give
me any deatils on the "TNC cable" but I'm sure they'll probably have
instructions on how to wire up the connector for various TNCs. However it
would be nice if the radio could be used for 9600 baud with a minimum
amount of modification. 73 DE KB2GLO, Tom.

--
Tom Kenny, KB2GLO
UUCP: ...!att!mtuxo!tek              Internet: [e-mail]
Packet Radio: kb2glo@n2kzh..nj.usa   AMPR: [e-mail] [44.64.0.10]

------------------------------

Date: 4 Oct 91 08:46:10 GMT
From: news.hawaii.edu!mpg.phys.hawaii.edu![e-mail]
Subject: linking widely separated ROSE nodes
To: [e-mail]

Looking for assistance on linking ROSE nodes which can't hear each other
directly via several digipeaters which are NOT ROSE nodes.  The docs give an
example of linking two ROSE nodes through one digipeater.  Is it possible to
link them through more than one digipeater?  If so what needs to be setup?
Any assistance would be most appreciated by our ROSE operators.

Tony
AH6BW
--
Antonio Querubin
[e-mail] / [e-mail] / [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 4 Oct 91 18:32:27 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Starting out on packet
To: [e-mail]

I'm a relatively new HAM and want to get started on packet.  I've got an
Amiga and want something simple for VHF and UHF only.  Any suggestions
on TNCs preferably with a 2400 baud modem?  I'd like to have it be
NETROM compatible (or similiar) and want to play around with AX.25 and
TCP/IP.  I'm still a little fuzzy on some aspects of this part of the
hobby and I figure the fastest way to get up to speed is just go out and
get a TNC.  Just want to make sure I don't buy a TNC that's too limited
but I don't want to spend a fortune and buy something that's top of the
line either.

I've heard good things about AmigaNOS and would like to get this, anyone
know if it is on phone line BBSs anywhere or a public network like
GEnie?  I don't think the UNIX system I use at work would allow me to
transfer a file, only messages.

_______________________________________________________________________
Dan Roman -- N2MFC                |     / / UUCP:  [e-mail]
Timeplex Inc., Woodcliff Lake, NJ | \ \/ /  GEnie: D.ROMAN1
[phone] ext. 6637          |  \/\/ Only Amiga!  Packet: Not yet!
=======================================================================

------------------------------

Date: 4 Oct 91 04:43:30 GMT
From: ogicse!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!samsung!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!usenet.coe.montana.edu![e-mail]
To: [e-mail]

References <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>
Subject : High Speed Packet

I have been looking into packet radio for the past six months now and have
decided to make the plunge.  The area that interests me the most is high
speed packet.  Specifically 9.6K to 56K+.  I would be really interested in
finding out what kinds of radio equipment this would require.  I have a lead
on a Kenwood 751A but would like to make sure that this would be usable in this
area of interest.  Being moderatly new to ham radio over all any advise would
be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Jason Boerner
[e-mail]
--
      +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
      For every vision there is an equal and opposite revision.
                                  -- Newton?
           [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 3 Oct 91 21:30:44 GMT
From: theory.TC.Cornell.EDU![e-mail]
To: [e-mail]

References <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>
Subject : Re: Communications, any way w/o phone lines...

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Tom B.) writes:
>It does monitor, CSMA/CD (Carrier Sense Multiple Access with Collision
>Detection) is built into the packet protocol.  There is always the chance
>2 modems will be listening, hear nothing, then decide to transmit at the
>same time.  The Collision Detection scheme will take care of this.

I don't mean to pick nits, but this is not true (sorry, Tom).

CSMA means being able to monitor the channel in some way to determine if it
is currently in use or not (e.g. "carrier sense").  Packet radio does this:
if a station finds the channel busy, it won't transmit.

CD (Collision Detection) is the ability to detect a collision _in progress_
while you are transmitting.  Then, as soon as you realize that you and
some other station(s) are on top of each other, you stop transmitting.
Few (if any??) amateur packet radio systems have this feature.
Ethernet has collision detection because it is easy to monitor the cable
while you are sending and make a comparision.  For packet radio systems,
this is difficult, if not impossible.

In summary, amateur packet radio is a CSMA system (no CD).

--
=  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =
Andrew C. Payne, N8KEI        UUCP:  ...!cornell!batcomputer!payne
              INTERNET:  [e-mail]

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #256
******************************
Date: Sun,  6 Oct 91 04:30:15 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #257
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Sun,  6 Oct 91       Volume 91 : Issue 257

Today's Topics:

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 6 Oct 91 00:13:30 GMT
From: swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!matt.ksu.ksu.edu![e-mail]
To: [e-mail]

References <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>
Subject : Standardized "packet connector"

Thomas Kenny writes:
>Maybe we should write to Alinco and suggest the desire for 9600 baud
>usability as well as a 440 version... My guess is that they are not thinking
>along these lines but rather are thinking of all those people that want
>a cheap 2 meter plug and play 1200 baud packet station. They didn't give
>me any details on the "TNC cable" but I'm sure they'll probably have
>instructions on how to wire up the connector for various TNCs. However it
>would be nice if the radio could be used for 9600 baud with a minimum
>amount of modification. 73 DE KB2GLO, Tom.

Now that we are getting several manufactures making packet specific radios,
it might be worth some discussion on the possibility of developing
a standard "packet connector".

Many amateurs these days are just appliance operators; hooking up
a 1200 baud TNC is difficult for them not to mention modifying
their radios for 9600 baud activity.

The solution might be to develop a standardized "packet connector"
to allow direct access to the radios audio sections for 1200 baud and
access to the mixer for 9600 baud packet.


The connector might contain:
pin 1 - 1200 baud pin (like normal radio's mike port)
pin 2 - 1200 GND
pin 3 - 9600 baud pin (direct to radio's mixer)
pin 4 - 9600 GND
pin 5 - FSK modem connection (+/- 5V mark/space)
pin 6 - FSK ground
pin 7 - TX (ground to key radio)
pin 8 - squelch open (+5v squelch open)
pin 9 - TX/squelch ground

This connector should use shielded cables, twisted pair wiring,
shielded connectors and separate audio and logic grounds.


Standards in amateur radio seem to have always been missing.  Maybe
we can at least develop one standard while we have a chance.


-Steve Schallehn  KB0AGD

PS:  I am working on the new revision of the packet FAQ's as I type this.

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #257
******************************
Date: Mon,  7 Oct 91 04:30:04 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #258
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Mon,  7 Oct 91       Volume 91 : Issue 258

Today's Topics:
              Beginners question
               FAQ posting explanation
            FLEXNET & FLEX opsys.
            How Do I Get Started? (2 msgs)
                   Now what
               Packet Radio FAQ Part 1
               Packet Radio FAQ Part 2
               Packet Radio FAQ Part 3

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 6 Oct 91 23:25:01 GMT
From: mcsun!uknet!ukc!ieunet!tcdcs!unix2.tcd.ie![e-mail]
Subject: Beginners question
To: [e-mail]

    I'm sorry of this is a FAQ but...

    I have just come across this newsgroup for the first time and I'm not
to sure what its all about. Am I correct in saying that packet radio allows
someone with a PC access to things like the Usenet and all those ftp sites
around the world? If so, those anyone know of any hardware/software for the
Atari 520ST that will allow me to use packet radio? I live in Ireland, so if
anyone here knows what I have to do in order to get one of these - licences,
etc. - I would appreciate it if they could pass on the info.

    Thanks a million everybody!
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
Robert Walsh                    Email: [e-mail]
Engineering School, Trinity College Dublin.
-----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 7 Oct 91 08:36:21 GMT
From: ogicse!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!matt.ksu.ksu.edu![e-mail]
Subject: FAQ posting explanation
To: [e-mail]

Because of the sudden rash of FAQ requests, I have re-posted my
version 1.0 of the packet radio FAQs.

Be assured, I am working on a new version and will post it as soon
as it is complete.

-Steve Schallehn  KB0AGD

------------------------------

Date: 7 Oct 91 08:28:44 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: FLEXNET & FLEX opsys.
To: [e-mail]

> Who knows where I can find boards for building a Motorola 6809 micro-
> processor system.
> I'm looking for info on how to build a FLEX (SWTC operating system) with it.
>
> I think in the German area a lot of Hams use FLEXNET. Therefore I would
> like to receive also info about FLEXNET.
>
> Thanks, so far.
>
> Wim NIJNTJES
>
>

------------------------------

Date: 5 Oct 91 00:41:10 GMT
From: hpl-opus!hpspdla![e-mail]
Subject: How Do I Get Started?
To: [e-mail]

This ought to be a FAQ, but I haven't seen on that list, yet.

To get started in packet, you first need to get an Amateur Radio
Licence.  The recently enacted no-code Technician license is just fine.
(You also get voice, TV, satellite privileges as well.)  Radio Shack has
study guides.  The ARRL and others also print good books.
To take the exam you may need to contact the
  American Radio Relay League
  225 Main Street
  Newington, CT 06111

(All of the above is well covered in FAQ's)

You have more than enough computer.  You will need a transceiver for the
frequency band(s) of interest.  2 meters is currently most popular, but
more and more folks are using 70 cm and others.  A 2 watt handi-talkie
and a 1/4 wave whip should be enough to get you started, on the radio
end.  I suggest having 10 feet or MORE between the radio and the
computer to lessen difficulties with RFI.

The last piece is the terminal node controller or TNC.  This is
basically a specialized modem with a built-in processor to handle
details like collision detection, when to transmit, etc.  TNC's run from
$100 to $300.  The more expensive models provide other modes like RTTY
and FAX which some Amateurs like to use.

Three companies make most of the TNC's sold in the US.  AEA, MFJ, and
Kantronics.  You can find their addresses in any of the magazines
written for ham radio, such as QST or 73.  My personal choice was the
Kantronics All Mode (KAM) together with their software for the computer.
Since you are just getting started, I would recommend a more basic model
at first.

73, Paul AA6PZ @ N6IIU-1.#NOCAL.CA.USA.NA

------------------------------

Date: 6 Oct 91 22:17:31 GMT
From: theory.TC.Cornell.EDU![e-mail]
Subject: How Do I Get Started?
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Paul Zander) writes:
>The last piece is the terminal node controller or TNC.  This is
>basically a specialized modem with a built-in processor to handle
>details like collision detection, when to transmit, etc.  TNC's run from
>$100 to $300.  The more expensive models provide other modes like RTTY
>and FAX which some Amateurs like to use.

One thing Paul forgot to mention is the "software TNC", where nearly all of
the functionality of the TNC is performed by the computer you already have.
The only hardware you need is a 1200 baud modem that can be constructed for
about $40. (Your average 1200 baud phone modem will *not* work for packet).
Two software TNCs exist for the IBM PC:  BAYCOM and PMP.  Both are available
via anonymous FTP from wuarchive.wustl.edu in /mirros/msdos/packet.

If you have enough hardware experience to know which end of the soldering
iron gets hot, I'd suggest getting started with a software TNC.  You can't
beat the price and the satisfacting of building something yourself is
GREAT!  On the downside, the software TNCs won't work with other packet
software (like NOS for TCP/IP).


DISCLAIMER:  I wrote PMP.  The latest version can always be found on
         'helios.tn.cornell.edu' in /pub

--
=  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =
Andrew C. Payne, N8KEI        UUCP:  ...!cornell!batcomputer!payne
              INTERNET:  [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 5 Oct 91 00:44:35 GMT
From: hpl-opus!hpspdla![e-mail]
Subject: Now what
To: [e-mail]

In Sunnyvale, try N0ARY-1 on 144.93 MHz.  Or just monitor on different
freq's and use the mheard function to find which BBS's you can hear
well.

Actually, all of the BBS's in the Bay Area are linked together, so they
all have the same bulletins.

Send me a message when you get on.

73, Paul
AA6PZ @ N6IIU-1.#NOCAL.CA.USA.NA

------------------------------

Date: 7 Oct 91 08:23:16 GMT
From: ogicse!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!matt.ksu.ksu.edu![e-mail]
Subject: Packet Radio FAQ Part 1
To: [e-mail]

Frequently Asked Questions
for
Amateur Packet Radio
Part 1 of 3

Version 1.0
9 Jul 1991

This document is for unlimited distribution.

Please send corrections and additions to Steve Schallehn
([e-mail]).  This posting will be made on a monthly
basis, posted to rec.radio.amateur.packet.




1.0 Basic Packet Radio Information . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  1
     1.1 What is packet radio? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  1
     1.2 What is amateur radio?. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  2
     1.3 Why packet over other digital modes:  . . . . . . . .  2
     1.4 What elements make up a packet station? . . . . . . .  2
      A TNC (Terminal Node Controller) . . . . . . . . . .  2
      Computer or Terminal . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  3
      A radio  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  3
     1.5 What do you mean we can all use the same channel? . .  3
     1.6 What is AX.25 ? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  3
     1.7 Definitions:  Commonly used terms in Amateur Packet
      Radio. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  3

1.0 General Packet Radio Information . . . . . . . . . . . . .  1
     1.1 What is packet radio? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  1
     1.2 What is amateur radio?. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  1
     1.3 What elements make up a packet station? . . . . . . .  1
      A TNC (Terminal Node Controller) . . . . . . . . . .  1
      Computer or Terminal . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  1
      A radio  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  2
     1.4 Why packet over other digital modes:  . . . . . . . .  2
     1.5 What do you mean we can all use the same channel? . .  2
     1.6 What is AX.25 ? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  2
     1.7 Definitions:  Commonly used terms in Amateur Packet
      Radio. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  3



1.0 Basic Packet Radio Information


1.1 What is packet radio?

Packet radio is digital communications via amateur radio.  Packet
radio takes any digital data stream and sends that via radio to
another amateur radio station.  Packet radio is so named because
it sends the data in small burst, or packets.


1.2 What is amateur radio?

Amateur Radio is individuals using specified radio frequencies
for personal enjoyment, experimentation, and the continuation of
the radio art.  Amateur radio operators must be licensed by their
government.  In the United States, the Federal Communications
Commission issues amateur radio licenses.  Normally, a test on
operating practices, radio theory, and in some cases morse code
proficiency test is administered.  Amateur radio is not to be
used for commercial purposes.  Also, amateur radio operators are
restricted from using profanity and using amateur radio for
illegal purposes.

For more information on Amateur Radio in general, see the monthly
frequently asked questions posting in rec.radio.amateur.misc.


1.3 Why packet over other digital modes:

Packet has one great advantage over other digital modes :
automatic operation.  Packet TNC's are very advanced as far as
automatic control go.  Just simply connect to the other station,
type in your message, and it is sent automatically.  Any packet
TNC can be used a packet relay station, or a digipeater.  This
allows for greater range by stringing several stations in a row.
On HF, this allows for contacts with stations normally not in
propagation range.

Packet radio provides error free transmissions because of built
in error detection schemes.  If a packet is received, it will be
correct.

Also, on VHF/UHF packet, packet operators are allowed to operate
in automatic control mode.  This means that you can leave your
packet station on constantly.  Other users can connect to you at
any time they wish to see if you are home.  Some TNC's even have
Personal BBS's (sometimes called mailboxes) so other amateurs can
leave you messages if you are not at home.

Another advantage of packet over other modes is the ability for
many users to be able to simultaneously use the same frequency
simultaneously.


1.4 What elements make up a packet station?

A TNC (Terminal Node Controller)
A TNC contains a modem to decode the audio signals into digital
signals.  It also contains a micro-computer handle to convert the
digital signals into text that can be sent over a RS-232 port to
the computer.  The CPU also handles the protocol overhead of the
packet station.  When you send data, it takes the text, puts
error checking on it (CRC) and also puts it in an envelope for
sending.  When receiving a signal, it takes it out of the
envelope, and sends the message to the computer.

Computer or Terminal
This is the user interface.  A computer running a terminal
program or just a dumb terminal can be used.  For computers, any
phone modem communications program can be adapted for packet use
or customized packet radio programs are available.

A radio
For 1200 baud operation (normal user access), a standard voice
radio can be used.  For UHF or VHF packet, Narrow band FM is
used, normally on simplex channels.  For HF packet, 300 baud data
is used over single side band modulation.




1.5 What do you mean we can all use the same channel?

Packet radio uses a protocol called AX.25.  AX.25 specifies
channel access (ability to transmit on the channel) to be handled
by CSCA/CD ?????? (Carrier Sense Collision Avoidance / Collision
Detect)  If you need to transmit, your TNC monitors the channel
to see if someone else is transmitting.  If no one else is
transmitting, then the radio keys up and the TNC sends it's
packet.  All the other stations hear the packet and do not
transmit until you are done.  Unfortunately, 2 stations could
accidentally transmit at the same time.  This is called a
collision.  If a collision occurs, neither TNC will receive a
reply back from the last packet it sent.  Each TNC will wait a
random amount of time and then retransmit the packet again.


1.6 What is AX.25 ?

AX.25 (Amateur X.25) is the communications protocol used for
packet radio.  A protocol is a standard for how two computer
systems are to communicate with each other, somewhat analogous to
using business format when writing a business letter.  AX.25 was
developed in the 1970's and based of the wired network protocol
X.25.  Because of the difference in the transport medium (radios
vs wires) and because of different addressing schemes, X.25 was
modified.  AX.25 also included a digipeater field to allow other
stations to automatically repeat packets to extend the range of
transmitters.  One advantage of AX.25 is that every packet sent
contains the senders and recipients amateur radio callsign, thus
providing identification with every transmission.

1.7 Definitions:  Commonly used terms in Amateur Packet Radio

HDLC :  (High-Level Data Link Control Procedures) A standard for
high level link control. (ISO 3309)

AX.25 : Amateur X.25 protocol.  The basis of most packet systems.
See section 1.6.

TAPR : Tucson Amateur packet Radio.  Was the first group to
create a packet radio TNC using AX.25.  Soon a TAPR TNC became
cloned by many others.  TAPR continues development of packet
radio equipment.

digipeater : A packet radio station used for repeating packets.
See section 3.3.1 for more information.

digi : Short name for a digipeater

NET/ROM : A scheme for packet radio networking.  See section
3.3.3 for more information.

TCP/IP : Transmission Control Protocol/Internet Protocol.  A set
of utility programs used over AX.25.  See sections 3.2 for more
information.

KA9Q NOS : (KA9Q Network Operating System)  A TCP/IP program
originally developed by Phil Karn, KA9Q.  Currently there are
many different versions available.  See section 3.2 for more
information.

NODE : A network node.  Often a network node running NET/ROM.

KA-Node : A simple networking scheme developed by Kantronics.
See section 3.3.2 for more info.

CSCA/CD ???? : Carrier Sense Collision Avoidance / Collision
Detect.

TNC : Terminal Node Controller.  See section 1.4 for more
information.

AMPR : An abbreviation for Amateur Packet Radio.

44 net : The class A network designator for TCP/IP amateur packet
radio.  All numerical TCP/IP addresses are in the format of
44.xxx.xxx.xxx.

ampr.org : The organization recognized on Internet for amateur
packet radio TCP/IP.

------------------------------

Date: 7 Oct 91 08:24:12 GMT
From: agate!apple!olivea!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!matt.ksu.ksu.edu![e-mail]
Subject: Packet Radio FAQ Part 2
To: [e-mail]

Frequently Asked Questions
for
Amateur Packet Radio
Part 2 of 3

Version 1.0
9 Jul 1991

This document is for unlimited distribution.

Please send corrections and additions to Steve Schallehn
([e-mail]).  This posting will be made on a monthly
basis, posted to rec.radio.amateur.packet.



2.0 Computing Network Resources for Amateur Packet radio . . .  1
     2.1 What Newsgroups/mailing lists are available?. . . . .  1
     2.2 What anonymous FTP sites are available  . . . . . . .  2
     2.3 Are there any gateways for mail or news . . . . . . .  2



2.0 Computing Network Resources for Amateur Packet radio

This section summarizes the resources available on Internet for
amateur packet radio operators.


2.1 What Newsgroups/mailing lists are available?

This is a list of all groups that regularly discuss amateur
packet radio.  For newsgroups, subscribe to the group through use
of your news reader.   For mailing lists, add a '-request' to the
end of the list name for subscriptions.  For listserv groups,
send mail to 'listserv' at the node which contains the list.  The
first line of the mail should be 'SUBSCRIBE groupname yourname'.
Send the command 'help' for more information.


rec.radio.amateur.packet (Newsgroup):
General discussions involving Packet Radio.

rec.radio.amateur.misc (Newsgroup):
General amateur radio discussion.  Usually does not contain any
particular information about Amateur Packet Radio.

rec.radio.amateur.policy (Newsgroup):
Discussion of regulation policies regarding every aspect of
amateur radio.  Occasionally deals with polices of packet
coordination and legal issues of packet radio.

rec.radio.swap (Newsgroup):
General For-Sale for any radio equipment.  Occasionally will have
packet equipment for sale.  Recommended location for any amateur
packet radio for-sale items.

[e-mail] (listserv group):
A digest redistribution of the rec.radio.amateur.misc Usenet
discussion.

[e-mail] (listserv group):
A digest redistribution of the rec.radio.amateur.packet Usenet
discussion.

[e-mail] (mailing list):
Discussion of high speed modems and radios available and future
plans.  Also includes discussion of networking using high speed
modems.

[e-mail] (mailing list):
Group discussion technical developments of TCP/IP over packet
radio and use of the NOS TCP/IP programs.

[e-mail] (mailing list):
Discussion of current gateways and future plans for gateways.
May deal with sensitive internetworking issues.


For all lists at ucsd.edu, archives are kept of the discussions
and maybe access via anonymous FTP to ucsd.edu.  Some listserv
groups also have archives.  Send to the group's listserv 'help'
for more information on commands.  Digests for the ucsd.edu
discussions are available.  Send mail to [e-mail] with
the first line being 'longindex' for more information.


2.2 What anonymous FTP sites are available for getting packet
radio information and programs:

This is not an inclusive list of FTP sites, but these sites carry
a large portion of the programs available.  Consult the Archie
archive server for info on particular files.  Send mail to
[e-mail] with the line 'help' for more information on
archie file searches.


ucsd.edu : Primary distribution site of KA9Q's TCP/IP packages.
Also, general packet radio information.

simtel20.army.mil: very large collection of amateur radio
software.

wuarchive.wustl.edu: Mirror site of Simtel20 archives.  Easier to
use then the simtel20 archive.


2.3 Are there any gateways for mail or news between internet and
amateur packet radio?

Currently, there is no general use gateways between packet radio
or any other computer network.  The primary problem with such
gateways is required content of amateur packet radio.  Most wire
based networks do not have any rules on content (such as
profanity or business) like amateur radio does.  Therefore, all
traffic destinated to amateur radio has to be hand filtered.

However, there are several experimental wormholes that are being
tested through Internet.  See the discussion on the gateways
discussion group for more information.

------------------------------

Date: 7 Oct 91 08:25:12 GMT
From: ogicse!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!matt.ksu.ksu.edu![e-mail]
Subject: Packet Radio FAQ Part 3
To: [e-mail]

Frequently Asked Questions
for
Amateur Packet Radio
Part 3 of 3

Version 1.0
9 Jul 1991

This document is for unlimited distribution.

Please send corrections and additions to Steve Schallehn
([e-mail]).  This posting will be made on a monthly
basis, posted to rec.radio.amateur.packet.



3.0 Networking and special packet protocols. . . . . . . . . .  1
     3.1 Are there any other protocols in use other than
      AX.25? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  1
     3.2 What is TCP/IP? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  1
     3.3 Networking Schemes. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  2
      3.3.0 What are some of those other networking
           schemes?. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  2
      3.3.1 Digipeaters. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  2
      3.3.2 KA-Nodes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  2
      3.3.3 NET/ROM. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  2
      3.3.4 ROSE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  3



3.0 Networking and special packet protocols

This is a sample of some of the more popular networking schemes
available today.  By far, there are more customized networking
schemes used than listed.  Consult your local packet network guru
for specific network information.


3.1 Are there any other protocols in use other than AX.25?

AX.25 is considered the defacto standard protocol for amateur
radio use and is even recognized by many countries as a legal
operation mode.  However, there are other standards.  TCP/IP is
used in some areas for amateur radio.  Also, some networking
protocols use other packet formats than AX.25.


3.2 What is TCP/IP?

TCP/IP stands for Transmission Control Protocol/Internet
Protocol.  This is commonly used over the Internet wired computer
network.  The TCP/IP suite contains different transmission
facilities such as FTP (File Transfer Protocol), SMTP (Simple
Mail Transport Protocol), Telnet (Remote terminal protocol), and
NNTP (Net News Transfer Protocol)

The KA9Q NOS program (also called NET) is the most commonly used
version of TCP/IP in packet radio.  NOS originally was written
for the PC compatible.  However, NOS has been ported to many
different computers such as the Amiga, Macintosh, Unix System V,
and others.  Smaller computers like the Commodore 64 and the
Timex-Sinclar do not currently have version of NOS available.



3.3 Networking Schemes

3.3.0 What are some of those other networking schemes?

During the early days of amateur packet radio, it became apparent
that a packet network was needed.  To this end, the following
packet network schemes where created.


3.3.1 Digipeaters

The first networking scheme with packet radio was Digipeaters.
Digipeaters would simply look at a packet, and if it's call was
in the digipeater field, it would resend the packet.  Digipeaters
allow the extension of range of a transmitter by retransmitting
any packets addressed to the digipeater.

This scheme worked well with only a few people on the radio
channel.  However, as packet became more popular, digipeaters
soon were clogging up the airwaves with traffic being repeated
over long distances.  Also, if a packet got lost by one of the
digipeaters, the originator station would have to retransmit the
packet again, forcing every digipeater to transmit again and
causing more congestion.


3.3.2 KA-Nodes

Kantronics improved on the digipeater slightly and created KA-
Nodes.  As with digipeaters, KA-Nodes simply repeat AX.25 frames.
However, a KA-Node acknowledges every transmission each link
instead of over the entire route.  Therefore, instead of an end-
to-end acknowledgement, KA-Nodes allow for more reliable
connections because acknowledgments only carried on one link.
KA-Nodes therefore are more reliable than digipeaters, but are
not a true network.  It is similar like having to wire your own
telephone network to make a phone call.


3.3.3 NET/ROM

NET/ROM was one of the first networking schemes to try to address
the problems with digipeaters.  A user connects to a NET/ROM as
if connecting to any other packet station.  From there, he can
issue the NET/ROM commands to instruct it to connect to another
user locally or connect to another NET/ROM.  This connect then
connect again means that to a user's TNC, you are connected to a
local station only and it's transmissions does not have to be
digipeated over the entire network and risk loosing packets.
This local connection proved to be more reliable.

NET/ROM don't use all of the AX.25 protocol.  Instead, they use
special AX.25 packet called Unnumbered Information (UI) packets
and then put their own special protocol on top of AX.25.  This is
again used to increase efficiency of it's transmissions.

NET/ROM is a commercial firmware (software put on a chip) program
that is used as a replacement ROM in TAPR type TNC's.  Other
programs are available to emulate NET/ROM.  Among them are
TheNet, G8BPQ node switch, and some versions of NET.

NET/ROM nodes, at regular intervals, transmit to other nodes
their current list of known nodes.  This is good because as new
nodes come on-line, they are automatically integrated in the
network, but if band conditions such as ducting occur, often
unreachable nodes are entered into node lists.  This causes the
NET/ROM routing software to choose routes to distant nodes that
are impossible.  This problem requires users to develop a route
to a distant node manually defining each hop instead of using the
automatic routing feature.


3.3.4 ROSE

Rose is another networking protocol derived from X.25.  Rose
nodes have a static list of the nodes it can reach.  For a user
to use a ROSE switch, he issues a connect with the destination
station and in the digipeater field places the call of the local
rose switch and the distant rose switch the destination station
can hear.  Other then that, the network is completely transparent
to the user.

The static routing tables ROSE uses ensures that packet routing
does not use unreliable links such as NET/ROM suffers from.
However, ROSE suffers from it's inability to change it's routing
table as new nodes come on line.  The operator must manually
change every routing table, thus ROSE networks require greater
maintenance times.

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #258
******************************
Date: Tue,  8 Oct 91 04:30:07 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #259
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Tue,  8 Oct 91       Volume 91 : Issue 259

Today's Topics:
         DSPs and radio communication on NeXT
                F6FBB BBS Help
                FLEX + FLEXNET
              G8BPQ Source Code
             Heatherington 56kb RF modem
            How Do I Get Started?
             KISS and Heath HK-21
           Standardized "packet connector"
          World Wide Packet BBS Bulletin Designator?

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 7 Oct 91 18:30:10 GMT
From: pacbell.com!att!linac!uwm.edu!caen!uvaarpa!cube![e-mail]
Subject: DSPs and radio communication on NeXT
To: [e-mail]

I got this from NeXT, any interest?

Jim WA4ONG

------

Date: Mon, 7 Oct 91 09:56:08 PDT
From: [e-mail]
To: [e-mail]
Subject: DSPs and radio communication
Cc: [e-mail]

Any interest??  This message came from the editor of UnixWorld, Dave Flack...

conrad

Begin forwarded message:

Date: Mon, 30 Sep 91 18:33:20 -0400
From: uworld![e-mail]
Subject: DSP developers query

Chris--

I am an amateur radio operator.  Many new products for digital
signal processing applications are coming out, but they have
rather high price tags.  Also, they are stand-alone products
which must be connected to a PC or Mac.

Is there a network of Next users that I could pose a question to?
I am interested in reaching anyone who is doing development work
in two areas related to DSPs and radio communication.  The first
is voice signal processing to digitally enhance the reception of
shortwave transmissions.  The second is the use of programmable
DSPs to act as high-speed modems for the radio transmission of
data.~

If you know of a way to distribute this query, that would be
great.  I can be reached at [e-mail].~

Thanks in advance!

------------------------------

Date: 8 Oct 91 04:53:05 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: F6FBB BBS Help
To: [e-mail]

I'm trying to set up the F6FBB program (5.13) and I'm having some problems
with it.
     When I start it, it goes through the callsign setup and I notice that
there is a bunch of garbage characters in the window. What is it loading in
at this point and why is there junk in it?
     After it comes up with 'Starting multitasking', it then just keeps doing:

Recv < >, FFFF
Recv < >, FFFF

     and etc...  I can't break out of it either.

This is a copy of the error.sys file in the FBB directory.

> *** System boot on  08/10/91 04:00 ***
> Warning Nx371  /  errno 2  /  1 open files  /  Tue 08/10/91 04:01
  Station , niv1 : -4096   niv2 : -173   niv3 : -4096
> *** System boot on  08/10/91 04:06 ***
> Warning Nx371  /  errno 2  /  1 open files  /  Tue 08/10/91 04:06
  Station , niv1 : -4096   niv2 : -173   niv3 : -4096


Was wondering what some of this means?
     If anyone has some more docs on the programs and some info on some of
the files that aren't in the regular docs, let me know where they can be
obtained from.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|      Michigan's  TCP/IP LAN       | AX25 BBS  : N8FOW@WB8H.#SEMI.MI.USA.NA |
|          147.56 MHz               | AMPRnet   : [e-mail]     |
|         Ron Atkinson              | Internet  : [e-mail]          |
|            N8FOW                  | BITNET    : au351%po.cwru.edu@cunyvm   |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 7 Oct 91 15:12:03 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: FLEX + FLEXNET
To: [e-mail]

I'm looking for cards to build a 6809 based FLEX system in order to run

        FLEXNET on it.

        Can some of you give me some info on where I can find this
        hardware?

Wim NIJNTJES   PE1NTW

email  : [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 6 Oct 91 23:01:42 GMT
From: gatech!Galois!wa4phy![e-mail]
Subject: G8BPQ Source Code
To: [e-mail]

I am looking for anyone who might have the source code for the
G8BPQ packet switch.  Reason.... want to try to get the driver
set for the Ottowa P.I. card into it.  Has anyone done it?  I am
not a software type..  only hardware.  Can anyone be of any
assistance?

Thanks... de Sam

ax25: [e-mail]
UUCP: dogwood!wa4phy!sam
Mail: S.W. Drinkard - 4428 Branchwood Drive, Martinez, GA 30907

------------------------------

Date: 6 Oct 91 23:12:51 GMT
From: gatech!Galois!wa4phy![e-mail]
Subject: Heatherington 56kb RF modem
To: [e-mail]

For those of you wanting an address for information on the subject
modem, here it is:

GRAPES, Inc.
56kb modems
P.O. Box 871
Alpharetta, GA  30239-0871

Since many of the Atlanta contact people are rather hard to get via
telephone, I will post my tele number here.  Please, no calls after
9:00 P.M. eastern time.

Sam Drinkard, [phone]  Martinez, GA

I am a member/director of GRAPES, and have assembled and used the
modems, and I can tell you, they are fantastic!

------------------------------

Date: 6 Oct 91 14:54:48 GMT
From: pacbell.com!mips!samsung!emory!wa4mei!ke4zv![e-mail]
Subject: How Do I Get Started?
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Edgar Tooley) writes:
>Sorry if this is a FAQ but I didn't see one anywhere.  I would like to know
>what is the minimum set-up required for packet radio.  I already have a 386/25
>running DOS and a UNIXPC so I'm only interested in the radio end of things.
>I'm in an apartment as well, can I do anything without a big antenna?  Where
>can I find used equipment?  Finally, what licencing is required?

Packet has become multifaceted. The most common packet operation remains
1200 baud activity on the 2 meter band. For this you will require a TNC
and a voice grade FM radio for 2 meters. The minimum license is the
Technician class license. The Novice class licensee can use packet too,
but is limited to three less popular bands and reduced power.

If you are interested in direct worldwide contacts, you will need a
General or higher class license and an HF SSB radio and a TNC for
300 baud communications. This generally requires a big antenna.

If you desire high speed communications, 2400, 9600, 19200, and 56000
baud equipment is available for use at VHF and UHF. In the cases of
9600 and 19200 baud, specially modified radios are required. In the
case of 56 kb, the modem *is* a radio and only a frequency translator
called a transverter is required to put it on the UHF band of choice.
A Technician license is suitable for these activities. Needless to
say, others must also be using high speed packet in your area if you
want to operate high speed, unless you are satisfied with talking
to yourself.

The safest way to get your feet wet is to start at 1200 baud on 2 meters
where activity is highest. Later you may want to try the higher performance
modes.

Gary KE4ZV

------------------------------

Date: 7 Oct 91 11:57:59 GMT
From: vtserf![e-mail]
Subject: KISS and Heath HK-21
To: [e-mail]

Thanks to whoever posted the original query and the answer!  I now have
KISS mode with my Heath HK-21 Pocket Packet TNC.  Does anyone know of
a manual for the new firmware?  I have figured most of it out,  but there
are a number of new commands and the indicators act odd in KISS mode.
Any help would be appreciated.

Phil

------------------------------

Date: 7 Oct 91 16:53:40 GMT
From: hpl-opus!hpspdla![e-mail]
Subject: Standardized "packet connector"
To: [e-mail]

Having recently gone through the hassle of making cables for 3 radios
and 2 TNC's, I sure agree that a standard would be nice.  Let me make an
addition to your list.  RCV audio from the radio to the TNC.  My IC-751
has such a connection.  On HF, it is nice to be able to monitor the
received signal and adjust the volume as desired (or all the way done),
while the TNC is connected.

73, Paul AA6PZ

------------------------------

Date: 8 Oct 91 04:36:17 GMT
From: swrinde!mips!spool.mu.edu!munnari.oz.au!yoyo.aarnet.edu.au!sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au!cats.adelaide.edu.au![e-mail]
Subject: World Wide Packet BBS Bulletin Designator?
To: [e-mail]

Can anyone tell me just how many regions on the Packet radio BBS newtwork
utilize a Buleltin designator that is supposed to cover the whole World?

I think in Europe they use either @WW or @WWW but here in Australia
we see all @WW/@WWW bulletins swapped to @ASIA (or @AS) bulletins.

Is there a designator used worldwide? If not should we implement
one (extend the existing one used in Europe)? I would seem to
help out at least from looking at this end. At the moment, if I
want proper world wide coverage I send to @ASIA (or @AS) for all of AsiaNet
and Europe (it gets swapped to @WW somewhere on the path to Europe it seems)
and then another copy addressed @USA to cover the United states and
then another to @JPN to make sure it gets into japan.

So what should it be? Should we (sysops) change anything?

Comments / hints welcome. Flames > /dev/null

Cheers de Grant VK5ZWI
--
Grant Willis (VK5ZWI), Electronic Engineering Student. | Adelaide University
AARNet/Internet1: [e-mail]   | South AUSTRALIA
AARNet/Internet2: [e-mail] | My views are my own,
AmPRNET: VK5ZWI@VK5TTY.#SA.AUS.OC  [44.136.171.11]     | not the Uni's!

------------------------------

Date: 7 Oct 91 12:15:10 GMT
From: [e-mail]
To: [e-mail]

References [e-mail], (Richard, Brooksby)
p
Subject : Alinco DR-1200T (Data Radio)


   Date: 4 Oct 91 14:56:06 GMT
   From: ogicse!...very long bang path...![e-mail] (John Stigall)

   The scoop is that this radio will be out late this year, early next
   year. That's all that Alinco will tell us. It's a *REAL* good idea
   and there are several of us who hope it will work well at 9600 bps
   with the Kantronics Data Engine.

I was going to ask if anyone had made a data radio already. It seemed
such an obvious thing to do; I assumed they could already be bought.
I'd like to hear about any other production or experimental radios
designed specifically for data.

Does the Alinco design perform the modem function? Does it perform the
TNC functions? What additional equipment will be needed?

   Now I wonder, if Alinco plans a 440 version of the rig...inquiring
   minds want to know.

What does 440 mean?

Would someone please supply me with the address and telephone number
of Alinco? Thanks.

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #259
******************************
Date: Wed,  9 Oct 91 04:30:05 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #260
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Wed,  9 Oct 91       Volume 91 : Issue 260

Today's Topics:
              Beginners question
               G8BPQ questions
              G8BPQ Source Code
          World Wide Packet BBS Bulletin Designator?

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 8 Oct 91 13:25:48 GMT
From: usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!emory!wa4mei!ke4zv![e-mail]
Subject: Beginners question
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Robert Walsh) writes:
>       I have just come across this newsgroup for the first time and I'm not
>to sure what its all about. Am I correct in saying that packet radio allows
>someone with a PC access to things like the Usenet and all those ftp sites
>around the world? If so, those anyone know of any hardware/software for the
>Atari 520ST that will allow me to use packet radio? I live in Ireland, so if
>anyone here knows what I have to do in order to get one of these - licences,
>etc. - I would appreciate it if they could pass on the info.

Accessing the internet and ftping big files off of it is still just a
gleam in most of our eyes. There are a few Usenet->packet gateways
operating and some Email links, but it isn't widespread yet. You're
getting in on the start of something new. It may grow to be a giant,
or a monster, we don't know yet. Help us find the way.

Gary KE4ZV

------------------------------

Date: 8 Oct 91 13:07:19 GMT
From: ncrcom!ncrlnk!ciss!lawday![e-mail]
Subject: G8BPQ questions
To: [e-mail]

Has anyone had experience using >256 byte packets over G8BPQ nodes?

The question is whether a netrom network built exclusively from BPQ
switches can use a paclen longer than 255 to allow, for example, ethernet-
length tcp/ip frames without fragmentation.

The BPQ config file indicates that you <can> use longer values of paclen
than the standard 255, but doesn't give any detail about what the maximum
is and whether you can, in fact, wrap long packets in netrom frames.

Please note:  1) We're contemplating this question in relation to clear
channel, highly reliable links.  I'm not worried right now about how <well>
long frames will work, but rather <if> they will work.  2)  In this exercise,
we're not worried about compatibility with non-BPQ netrom nodes.

A second, related question:  assuming a BPQ node that is strictly a two port,
point-to-point link (each port communicating with exactly one other station)
and no user port, would it make more sense (less overhead, etc.) to digipeat
across ports (it appears BPQ can do that) than to use the switch as a netrom
node?

John AG9V
--
John R. Ackermann, Jr.        Law Department, NCR Corporation, Dayton, Ohio
[phone]                [e-mail]
Packet Radio: ag9v@n8acv      tcp/ip: [e-mail] [44.70.12.34]

------------------------------

Date: 8 Oct 91 17:10:45 GMT
From: swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!cunews!software.mitel.com![e-mail]
Subject: G8BPQ Source Code
To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Sam Drinkard) writes:

> I am looking for anyone who might have the source code for the
> G8BPQ packet switch.  Reason.... want to try to get the driver
> set for the Ottowa P.I. (sic) card into it.  Has anyone done it?  I am
> not a software type..  only hardware.  Can anyone be of any
> assistance?

I can't help you with source for the G8BPQ code, but perhaps now is a good
time to mention that I have been working on packet driver (compliant
with the specification by FTP Software, Inc.) for the Ottawa PI card (note
the spelling ... sorry Sam ;-).

It's running, and after a little more "beta" testing I will make it
generally available. Maybe this interface would provide a good vehicle
for adding drivers to the G8BPQ software.  I've heard rumours that
the author is working on this - can anyone confirm or deny?

Cheers,
Dave


--
Dave Perry VE3IFB@VE3JF
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 8 Oct 91 07:30:33 GMT
From: mcsun!uknet!ukc!ukc!axion!kitkat![e-mail]
Subject: World Wide Packet BBS Bulletin Designator?
To: [e-mail]



------------------------------

Date: (null)
From: (null)
I asked this one a while ago, but have not had much response (thanks to the
few who did e-mail me).

> If not should we implement
> one (extend the existing one used in Europe)? I would seem to
> help out at least from looking at this end. At the moment, if I
> want proper world wide coverage I send to @ASIA (or @AS) for all of AsiaNet
> and Europe (it gets swapped to @WW somewhere on the path to Europe it seems)

Yes, and I wish it didn't. We keep getting bulletins which are really only
intended for Asia. Why do some people insist on changing the distribution of
messages?

> and then another copy addressed @USA to cover the United states and
> then another to @JPN to make sure it gets into japan.
>
> So what should it be? Should we (sysops) change anything?
>

I don't care what it is, so long as everyone uses it, but my preference
would be WWW.

> Comments / hints welcome. Flames > /dev/null
>
> Cheers de Grant VK5ZWI
> --
> Grant Willis (VK5ZWI), Electronic Engineering Student. | Adelaide University
> AARNet/Internet1: [e-mail]   | South AUSTRALIA
> AARNet/Internet2: [e-mail] | My views are my own,
> AmPRNET: VK5ZWI@VK5TTY.#SA.AUS.OC  [44.136.171.11]     | not the Uni's!

Brian Lloyd
Maintenance Section,                      # e-mail : [e-mail]
Software Technology Division,             # Phone  : [phone]
SSTF Building, BT Labs, Martlesham Heath, # Fax    : [phone]
Ipswich, Suffolk. UK. IP5 7RE             # Packet : G1NNA@GB7NNA.#31.GBR.EU

------------------------------

Date: 8 Oct 91 09:19:49 GMT
From: mcsun!news.funet.fi!cc.tut.fi![e-mail]
To: [e-mail]

References <(Richard>, <Brooksby)>, <[e-mail]>
Subject : Re: Alinco DR-1200T (Data Radio)


In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Richard Brooksby) writes:

>
>What does 440 mean?

I believe it means 440MHz, i.e. the 70 centimetre band.

I have lost the original posting, is the DR-1200T for 23 cm? If it is, that
is just what we desperately need here...

Would someone please email me the original posting, or repost it here? Thanks.

Benjamin OH3BK



--
Pentti "Benjamin" Gr|nlund, [e-mail], Gr|nlund_Pentti_OMNI (elisa)
Life member of the Association for Adjustment Aces ------------ OH3BK@OH3RBR
"Kyll{ min{ raavin persett{ni jos minua raavituttaa" (kansaned. J. Donner)

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #260
******************************
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 91 04:30:05 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #261
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Thu, 10 Oct 91       Volume 91 : Issue 261

Today's Topics:
              Beginners question
               G8BPQ questions

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 9 Oct 91 18:41:46 GMT
From: ucselx!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!natinst!uudell!sequoia!stardent![e-mail]
Subject: Beginners question
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Robert Walsh) writes:
>
>       I'm sorry of this is a FAQ but...
>
>       I have just come across this newsgroup for the first time and I'm not
>to sure what its all about. Am I correct in saying that packet radio allows
>someone with a PC access to things like the Usenet and all those ftp sites
>around the world? If so, those anyone know of any hardware/software for the
>Atari 520ST that will allow me to use packet radio? I live in Ireland, so if
>anyone here knows what I have to do in order to get one of these - licences,
>etc. - I would appreciate it if they could pass on the info.
>
>       Thanks a million everybody!
>--
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>Robert Walsh                    Email: [e-mail]
>Engineering School, Trinity College Dublin.
>-----------------------------------------------------------

The only special hardware required for packet radio is a Terminal Node
Controller (TNC).  These are available from many manufacturers.  Just pick
up a recent copy of any amateur radio magazine.  They all have an RS-232
port that connects to the serial port on the back of your computer.

I only know of two software packages for packet radio for the Atari ST:

1. PE1CHL(?) NET - based on KA9Q TCP/IP.  Can be used over radio with a
        TNC or over phone line to access Unix systems with ftp.
2. Packeterm - based on W0RLI BBS with terminal emulator added.

They are both free programs available from numerous user groups.  Two that
specialize in ham radio applications for Atari computers are:

    Atari Microcomputer Network
    John Adams KC5FW
    17106 Happy Hollow
    San Antonio, TX 78232
    U.S.A.

    ASTUR (Atari ST Users on Radio)
    GEERAERT Michel
    W. Elsschotlann 21
    B-8460 Koksijde
    Belgium


73,
John WB2OSZ

--
John Langner                                    [e-mail]
Stardent Computer Inc.                          uunet!stardent!johnl
6 NETC, 521 Virginia Road                       [phone] x 358
Concord, MA 01742

------------------------------

Date: 9 Oct 91 16:55:51 GMT
From: iWarp.intel.com!ichips!intelhf!jaizer![e-mail]
Subject: G8BPQ questions
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (John R. Ackermann) writes:
>
>Has anyone had experience using >256 byte packets over G8BPQ nodes?
>

I may be getting in over my head here, but what the heck.

My understanding is that you can have PACLEN greater than 255, but since
net/rom is actually limited to something like 236 (????) what happens is
that you end up with a 236 byte packet and then an X byte packet to total
you paclen. In other words if you set paclen to 255 you get a 236 byte
packet and then a 19 byte packet. The packet limit of net/rom seems
to be the most efficient size.

Comments??

***************************************************************************
* Jerry Gaiser (N7PWF)              -- Relax. Don't worry. Have a homebrew*
* [e-mail]                                                  *
* PBBSnet: n7pwf@n7pwf.#pdx.or.usa.na                                     *
*          [e-mail] [44.116.0.68]                             *
*            Dogs and old men thrive on monotony -- Baxter Black          *
***************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: 9 Oct 91 17:23:46 GMT
From: amdahl![e-mail]
To: [e-mail]

References <(Richard>, <Brooksby)>, <[e-mail]>
Reply-To : [e-mail] (Greg Bullough)
Subject : Re: Alinco DR-1200T (Data Radio)

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Richard Brooksby) writes:
>
>I was going to ask if anyone had made a data radio already. It seemed
>such an obvious thing to do; I assumed they could already be bought.
>I'd like to hear about any other production or experimental radios
>designed specifically for data.

If someone wanted to write a REALLY good article for CQ, 73 or QST, they
could do one on optimizing the Ramsey kit 2m transceiver as a data
radio. Probably some simple changes, easy to incorporate during
construction, and some packaging and convenience factors would do
the trick.

Hint. Hint.

Greg

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #261
******************************
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 91 04:30:05 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #262
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Fri, 11 Oct 91       Volume 91 : Issue 262

Today's Topics:
            9600 BAUD TNCs/radios
           Connecting a PK-232 to a TS-430s
               MSYS 1.12 Wanted
                physics expmt

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 11 Oct 91 05:09:05 GMT
From: news.hawaii.edu!mpg.phys.hawaii.edu![e-mail]
Subject: 9600 BAUD TNCs/radios
To: [e-mail]

A set of general questions :-).

I am looking for recommendations on KISS-capable 9600+ BAUD TNCs (internal or
outboard) that can work with unmodified stock VHF/UHF radios.  Also, how
inter-operable are the different types of high-speed modems/TNCs?  If there is
no such thing as a high-speed TNC that can work with most existing radios,
does anyone have recommendations on radios that are EASILY modified or already
designed to work with these new high-speed TNCs?

--
Antonio Querubin
[e-mail] / [e-mail] / [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 10 Oct 91 14:06:23 GMT
From: ogicse!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu![e-mail]
Subject: Connecting a PK-232 to a TS-430s
To: [e-mail]

Hi,

I wondering if anyone on the net has had any experience connecting a
PK-232 to a Kenwood TS-430s or other similarly configured Kenwood
equipment.  In reading through the manual, it's not clear to me how
exactly to wire the controller-to-mic-connector cable.  My confusion
concerns the mic ground and the ptt ground.  In the "Radio Installation"
section of the manual it looks like these two grounds should be kept
separate by connecting the shield of the controller cable to the mic
ground (pin 7) and then connecting the controller ground (brown wire)
to the ptt ground (pin 8).  But in the appendix where specific radio
connections are shown is says to connect brown/shield to pins 7 & 8.

Any suggestions, e-mailed or posted, would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Matt Henry        NR3M
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 11 Oct 91 00:10:03 GMT
From: gatech!psuvax1!ukma!memstvx1![e-mail]
Subject: MSYS 1.12 Wanted
To: [e-mail]

Hi

    Does anybody know were I can FTP a copy of MSYS 1.12 from ?


Thanks in Advance,


Suresh N9GSA


___  ___  _____  ___ ___ Suresh Kagoo  EE Dept , Memphis State University
|  \/  | / ____\ | | | | Engineering 215    | Domain: [e-mail]
| \  / | \____ \ | |_| | Memphis, TN  38152 | Bitnet: KAGOOS@MEMSTVX1
|_|\/|_| \_____/ \_____/ Ph: [phone] | AX.25 : N9GSA @AI5R.TN.USA

------------------------------

Date: 10 Oct 91 19:31:02 GMT
From: comp.vuw.ac.nz!canterbury.ac.nz!otago.ac.nz![e-mail]
Subject: physics expmt
To: [e-mail]

To any amateurs in/around Perth, and also Faulklands ..
    Perhaps you would be kind enough to post the following on your local
packet BBS s. It was sent to me by the local HOD in Physics.

    Anyone with an interest, and willing to be involved please contact
me
    Stephen Pearce,
    [e-mail]
    ph 64-3-4740-999 ext 8166, or 64-3-4763-778, or FAX [phone]
    [e-mail]

or email [e-mail] directly.

    We are also looking for few other amateurs who may be willing to
set up a phone relay around the time of the experiment to coordinate
the monitoring stations.

.............................................................................



From:   OUVAX::DOWDEN       "R.L.DOWDEN, PHYSICS DEPT, UNIV OTAGO, DUNEDIN, NZ"  8-OCT-1991 09:28:48.77
To:     PSYXSGP
CC:     DOWDEN
Subj:   Seeking a ham in WA.


Stephen,

Our ELBBO flights start in February.  The data is down linked at 13.45 MHz to
ground stations at Dunedin, South Pole, Durban and Brazil.  There are gaps in
this coverage so we will miss some data.

We need another ground station at or near Perth, W.A.  Since 13.45 MHz is
close to the 20 metre ham band, we are looking for an interested ham with a 20
m antenna (e.g., a steerable cubical quad).  We will supply the receiver
(Sangean), MSK decoder and logger (onto 5 inch floppies).  Included would be a
box with switch.  In one position the ham's antenna would be switched to our
gear and in the other to the ham's.  We would only want use of the ham's
antenna when he/she is not using it.  The floppy disk would last several days
and takes a second to change it.

The floppies would be mailed back to us (at our expense, of course).

Another gap in our coverage could be filled by a ham in Stanley (Falkland Is)
or far south Argentina.  (The ELBBOs will track around the world at around 40
to 50 deg latitude).

Could you put this (or an edited version) on the Oz ham bulletin board if such
exists?  Alternatively, do you work 20m and so maybe know 20m hams in WA?

Regards,

Dick

------------------------------

Date: 10 Oct 91 10:26:08 GMT
From: ogicse!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!clarkson!logic![e-mail]
To: [e-mail]

References <Brooksby)>, <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>
Subject : Re: Alinco DR-1200T (Data Radio)

[e-mail] (Greg Bullough) writes:

>If someone wanted to write a REALLY good article for CQ, 73 or QST, they
>could do one on optimizing the Ramsey kit 2m transceiver as a data
>radio. Probably some simple changes, easy to incorporate during
>construction, and some packaging and convenience factors would do
>the trick.

Ramsey, to my knowledge, STILL hasn't come out with his 220 version of
that radio has he?

--
[ KA2DEW @ KA2JXI.#NNY.NY.USA.NA                - Tadd Torborg             ]
[ [e-mail]                   - 20 Clinton St            ]
[ NEDA (North East Digital Association) Editor  - Potsdam, NY 13676        ]
[ Clarkson University                           - 315-268-6288             ]

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #262
******************************
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 91 04:30:06 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #263
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Sat, 12 Oct 91       Volume 91 : Issue 263

Today's Topics:
            KA9Q on Ethernet (help wanted)
               Packet Radio FAQ

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 11 Oct 91 21:28:13 GMT
From: ogicse!uwm.edu!caen!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu![e-mail]
Subject: KA9Q on Ethernet (help wanted)
To: [e-mail]

    Does anyone out there have any experience running KA9Q_NOS on a
hard-wire network?  I want to try to get it to run on our Ethernet
experimentally and see if I can get a full NNTP feed here.  Any
experiences?

    Brady...

--
===========================================================================
            Brady Orand - Network Specialist
    University of Kansas Department of Engineering Computing
          3043 Learned Hall     Lawrence, Ks    66045

[e-mail]            **  Intelligent quote goes here.     **
Work:  [phone]               **  When I think of one, I'll add it.**
Home:  [phone]               **                 - Anonymous       **
===========================================================================

------------------------------

Date: 12 Oct 91 06:38:41 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Packet Radio FAQ
To: [e-mail]

[And since this is Usenet, not a gutless packet radio BBS, here's Steve's
entire FAQ in one part so you can read and store and print it much more
easily without wasting your valuable time trying to piece the parts
back together after they've arrived out of order, as they did here.]



Frequently Asked Questions
for
Amateur Packet Radio

by [e-mail] (Steve Schallehn)

Version 1.0
9 Jul 1991

This document is for unlimited distribution.

Please send corrections and additions to Steve Schallehn
([e-mail]).  This posting will be made on a monthly
basis, posted to rec.radio.amateur.packet.



1.0 Basic Packet Radio Information . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  1
     1.1 What is packet radio? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  1
     1.2 What is amateur radio?. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  2
     1.3 Why packet over other digital modes:  . . . . . . . .  2
     1.4 What elements make up a packet station? . . . . . . .  2
      A TNC (Terminal Node Controller) . . . . . . . . . .  2
      Computer or Terminal . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  3
      A radio  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  3
     1.5 What do you mean we can all use the same channel? . .  3
     1.6 What is AX.25 ? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  3
     1.7 Definitions:  Commonly used terms in Amateur Packet
      Radio. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  3

1.0 General Packet Radio Information . . . . . . . . . . . . .  1
     1.1 What is packet radio? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  1
     1.2 What is amateur radio?. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  1
     1.3 What elements make up a packet station? . . . . . . .  1
      A TNC (Terminal Node Controller) . . . . . . . . . .  1
      Computer or Terminal . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  1
      A radio  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  2
     1.4 Why packet over other digital modes:  . . . . . . . .  2
     1.5 What do you mean we can all use the same channel? . .  2
     1.6 What is AX.25 ? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  2
     1.7 Definitions:  Commonly used terms in Amateur Packet
      Radio. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  3



1.0 Basic Packet Radio Information


1.1 What is packet radio?

Packet radio is digital communications via amateur radio.  Packet
radio takes any digital data stream and sends that via radio to
another amateur radio station.  Packet radio is so named because
it sends the data in small burst, or packets.


1.2 What is amateur radio?

Amateur Radio is individuals using specified radio frequencies
for personal enjoyment, experimentation, and the continuation of
the radio art.  Amateur radio operators must be licensed by their
government.  In the United States, the Federal Communications
Commission issues amateur radio licenses.  Normally, a test on
operating practices, radio theory, and in some cases morse code
proficiency test is administered.  Amateur radio is not to be
used for commercial purposes.  Also, amateur radio operators are
restricted from using profanity and using amateur radio for
illegal purposes.

For more information on Amateur Radio in general, see the monthly
frequently asked questions posting in rec.radio.amateur.misc.


1.3 Why packet over other digital modes:

Packet has one great advantage over other digital modes :
automatic operation.  Packet TNC's are very advanced as far as
automatic control go.  Just simply connect to the other station,
type in your message, and it is sent automatically.  Any packet
TNC can be used a packet relay station, or a digipeater.  This
allows for greater range by stringing several stations in a row.
On HF, this allows for contacts with stations normally not in
propagation range.

Packet radio provides error free transmissions because of built
in error detection schemes.  If a packet is received, it will be
correct.

Also, on VHF/UHF packet, packet operators are allowed to operate
in automatic control mode.  This means that you can leave your
packet station on constantly.  Other users can connect to you at
any time they wish to see if you are home.  Some TNC's even have
Personal BBS's (sometimes called mailboxes) so other amateurs can
leave you messages if you are not at home.

Another advantage of packet over other modes is the ability for
many users to be able to simultaneously use the same frequency
simultaneously.


1.4 What elements make up a packet station?

A TNC (Terminal Node Controller)
A TNC contains a modem to decode the audio signals into digital
signals.  It also contains a micro-computer handle to convert the
digital signals into text that can be sent over a RS-232 port to
the computer.  The CPU also handles the protocol overhead of the
packet station.  When you send data, it takes the text, puts
error checking on it (CRC) and also puts it in an envelope for
sending.  When receiving a signal, it takes it out of the
envelope, and sends the message to the computer.

Computer or Terminal
This is the user interface.  A computer running a terminal
program or just a dumb terminal can be used.  For computers, any
phone modem communications program can be adapted for packet use
or customized packet radio programs are available.

A radio
For 1200 baud operation (normal user access), a standard voice
radio can be used.  For UHF or VHF packet, Narrow band FM is
used, normally on simplex channels.  For HF packet, 300 baud data
is used over single side band modulation.




1.5 What do you mean we can all use the same channel?

Packet radio uses a protocol called AX.25.  AX.25 specifies
channel access (ability to transmit on the channel) to be handled
by CSCA/CD ?????? (Carrier Sense Collision Avoidance / Collision
Detect)  If you need to transmit, your TNC monitors the channel
to see if someone else is transmitting.  If no one else is
transmitting, then the radio keys up and the TNC sends it's
packet.  All the other stations hear the packet and do not
transmit until you are done.  Unfortunately, 2 stations could
accidentally transmit at the same time.  This is called a
collision.  If a collision occurs, neither TNC will receive a
reply back from the last packet it sent.  Each TNC will wait a
random amount of time and then retransmit the packet again.


1.6 What is AX.25 ?

AX.25 (Amateur X.25) is the communications protocol used for
packet radio.  A protocol is a standard for how two computer
systems are to communicate with each other, somewhat analogous to
using business format when writing a business letter.  AX.25 was
developed in the 1970's and based of the wired network protocol
X.25.  Because of the difference in the transport medium (radios
vs wires) and because of different addressing schemes, X.25 was
modified.  AX.25 also included a digipeater field to allow other
stations to automatically repeat packets to extend the range of
transmitters.  One advantage of AX.25 is that every packet sent
contains the senders and recipients amateur radio callsign, thus
providing identification with every transmission.

1.7 Definitions:  Commonly used terms in Amateur Packet Radio

HDLC :  (High-Level Data Link Control Procedures) A standard for
high level link control. (ISO 3309)

AX.25 : Amateur X.25 protocol.  The basis of most packet systems.
See section 1.6.

TAPR : Tucson Amateur packet Radio.  Was the first group to
create a packet radio TNC using AX.25.  Soon a TAPR TNC became
cloned by many others.  TAPR continues development of packet
radio equipment.

digipeater : A packet radio station used for repeating packets.
See section 3.3.1 for more information.

digi : Short name for a digipeater

NET/ROM : A scheme for packet radio networking.  See section
3.3.3 for more information.

TCP/IP : Transmission Control Protocol/Internet Protocol.  A set
of utility programs used over AX.25.  See sections 3.2 for more
information.

KA9Q NOS : (KA9Q Network Operating System)  A TCP/IP program
originally developed by Phil Karn, KA9Q.  Currently there are
many different versions available.  See section 3.2 for more
information.

NODE : A network node.  Often a network node running NET/ROM.

KA-Node : A simple networking scheme developed by Kantronics.
See section 3.3.2 for more info.

CSCA/CD ???? : Carrier Sense Collision Avoidance / Collision
Detect.

TNC : Terminal Node Controller.  See section 1.4 for more
information.

AMPR : An abbreviation for Amateur Packet Radio.

44 net : The class A network designator for TCP/IP amateur packet
radio.  All numerical TCP/IP addresses are in the format of
44.xxx.xxx.xxx.

ampr.org : The organization recognized on Internet for amateur
packet radio TCP/IP.



2.0 Computing Network Resources for Amateur Packet radio . . .  1
     2.1 What Newsgroups/mailing lists are available?. . . . .  1
     2.2 What anonymous FTP sites are available  . . . . . . .  2
     2.3 Are there any gateways for mail or news . . . . . . .  2



2.0 Computing Network Resources for Amateur Packet radio

This section summarizes the resources available on Internet for
amateur packet radio operators.


2.1 What Newsgroups/mailing lists are available?

This is a list of all groups that regularly discuss amateur
packet radio.  For newsgroups, subscribe to the group through use
of your news reader.   For mailing lists, add a '-request' to the
end of the list name for subscriptions.  For listserv groups,
send mail to 'listserv' at the node which contains the list.  The
first line of the mail should be 'SUBSCRIBE groupname yourname'.
Send the command 'help' for more information.


rec.radio.amateur.packet (Newsgroup):
General discussions involving Packet Radio.

rec.radio.amateur.misc (Newsgroup):
General amateur radio discussion.  Usually does not contain any
particular information about Amateur Packet Radio.

rec.radio.amateur.policy (Newsgroup):
Discussion of regulation policies regarding every aspect of
amateur radio.  Occasionally deals with polices of packet
coordination and legal issues of packet radio.

rec.radio.swap (Newsgroup):
General For-Sale for any radio equipment.  Occasionally will have
packet equipment for sale.  Recommended location for any amateur
packet radio for-sale items.

[e-mail] (listserv group):
A digest redistribution of the rec.radio.amateur.misc Usenet
discussion.

[e-mail] (listserv group):
A digest redistribution of the rec.radio.amateur.packet Usenet
discussion.

[e-mail] (mailing list):
Discussion of high speed modems and radios available and future
plans.  Also includes discussion of networking using high speed
modems.

[e-mail] (mailing list):
Group discussion technical developments of TCP/IP over packet
radio and use of the NOS TCP/IP programs.

[e-mail] (mailing list):
Discussion of current gateways and future plans for gateways.
May deal with sensitive internetworking issues.


For all lists at ucsd.edu, archives are kept of the discussions
and maybe access via anonymous FTP to ucsd.edu.  Some listserv
groups also have archives.  Send to the group's listserv 'help'
for more information on commands.  Digests for the ucsd.edu
discussions are available.  Send mail to [e-mail] with
the first line being 'longindex' for more information.


2.2 What anonymous FTP sites are available for getting packet
radio information and programs:

This is not an inclusive list of FTP sites, but these sites carry
a large portion of the programs available.  Consult the Archie
archive server for info on particular files.  Send mail to
[e-mail] with the line 'help' for more information on
archie file searches.


ucsd.edu : Primary distribution site of KA9Q's TCP/IP packages.
Also, general packet radio information.

simtel20.army.mil: very large collection of amateur radio
software.

wuarchive.wustl.edu: Mirror site of Simtel20 archives.  Easier to
use then the simtel20 archive.


2.3 Are there any gateways for mail or news between internet and
amateur packet radio?

Currently, there is no general use gateways between packet radio
or any other computer network.  The primary problem with such
gateways is required content of amateur packet radio.  Most wire
based networks do not have any rules on content (such as
profanity or business) like amateur radio does.  Therefore, all
traffic destinated to amateur radio has to be hand filtered.

However, there are several experimental wormholes that are being
tested through Internet.  See the discussion on the gateways
discussion group for more information.




3.0 Networking and special packet protocols. . . . . . . . . .  1
     3.1 Are there any other protocols in use other than
      AX.25? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  1
     3.2 What is TCP/IP? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  1
     3.3 Networking Schemes. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  2
      3.3.0 What are some of those other networking
           schemes?. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  2
      3.3.1 Digipeaters. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  2
      3.3.2 KA-Nodes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  2
      3.3.3 NET/ROM. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  2
      3.3.4 ROSE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  3



3.0 Networking and special packet protocols

This is a sample of some of the more popular networking schemes
available today.  By far, there are more customized networking
schemes used than listed.  Consult your local packet network guru
for specific network information.


3.1 Are there any other protocols in use other than AX.25?

AX.25 is considered the defacto standard protocol for amateur
radio use and is even recognized by many countries as a legal
operation mode.  However, there are other standards.  TCP/IP is
used in some areas for amateur radio.  Also, some networking
protocols use other packet formats than AX.25.


3.2 What is TCP/IP?

TCP/IP stands for Transmission Control Protocol/Internet
Protocol.  This is commonly used over the Internet wired computer
network.  The TCP/IP suite contains different transmission
facilities such as FTP (File Transfer Protocol), SMTP (Simple
Mail Transport Protocol), Telnet (Remote terminal protocol), and
NNTP (Net News Transfer Protocol)

The KA9Q NOS program (also called NET) is the most commonly used
version of TCP/IP in packet radio.  NOS originally was written
for the PC compatible.  However, NOS has been ported to many
different computers such as the Amiga, Macintosh, Unix System V,
and others.  Smaller computers like the Commodore 64 and the
Timex-Sinclar do not currently have version of NOS available.



3.3 Networking Schemes

3.3.0 What are some of those other networking schemes?

During the early days of amateur packet radio, it became apparent
that a packet network was needed.  To this end, the following
packet network schemes where created.


3.3.1 Digipeaters

The first networking scheme with packet radio was Digipeaters.
Digipeaters would simply look at a packet, and if it's call was
in the digipeater field, it would resend the packet.  Digipeaters
allow the extension of range of a transmitter by retransmitting
any packets addressed to the digipeater.

This scheme worked well with only a few people on the radio
channel.  However, as packet became more popular, digipeaters
soon were clogging up the airwaves with traffic being repeated
over long distances.  Also, if a packet got lost by one of the
digipeaters, the originator station would have to retransmit the
packet again, forcing every digipeater to transmit again and
causing more congestion.


3.3.2 KA-Nodes

Kantronics improved on the digipeater slightly and created KA-
Nodes.  As with digipeaters, KA-Nodes simply repeat AX.25 frames.
However, a KA-Node acknowledges every transmission each link
instead of over the entire route.  Therefore, instead of an end-
to-end acknowledgement, KA-Nodes allow for more reliable
connections because acknowledgments only carried on one link.
KA-Nodes therefore are more reliable than digipeaters, but are
not a true network.  It is similar like having to wire your own
telephone network to make a phone call.


3.3.3 NET/ROM

NET/ROM was one of the first networking schemes to try to address
the problems with digipeaters.  A user connects to a NET/ROM as
if connecting to any other packet station.  From there, he can
issue the NET/ROM commands to instruct it to connect to another
user locally or connect to another NET/ROM.  This connect then
connect again means that to a user's TNC, you are connected to a
local station only and it's transmissions does not have to be
digipeated over the entire network and risk loosing packets.
This local connection proved to be more reliable.

NET/ROM don't use all of the AX.25 protocol.  Instead, they use
special AX.25 packet called Unnumbered Information (UI) packets
and then put their own special protocol on top of AX.25.  This is
again used to increase efficiency of it's transmissions.

NET/ROM is a commercial firmware (software put on a chip) program
that is used as a replacement ROM in TAPR type TNC's.  Other
programs are available to emulate NET/ROM.  Among them are
TheNet, G8BPQ node switch, and some versions of NET.

NET/ROM nodes, at regular intervals, transmit to other nodes
their current list of known nodes.  This is good because as new
nodes come on-line, they are automatically integrated in the
network, but if band conditions such as ducting occur, often
unreachable nodes are entered into node lists.  This causes the
NET/ROM routing software to choose routes to distant nodes that
are impossible.  This problem requires users to develop a route
to a distant node manually defining each hop instead of using the
automatic routing feature.


3.3.4 ROSE

Rose is another networking protocol derived from X.25.  Rose
nodes have a static list of the nodes it can reach.  For a user
to use a ROSE switch, he issues a connect with the destination
station and in the digipeater field places the call of the local
rose switch and the distant rose switch the destination station
can hear.  Other then that, the network is completely transparent
to the user.

The static routing tables ROSE uses ensures that packet routing
does not use unreliable links such as NET/ROM suffers from.
However, ROSE suffers from it's inability to change it's routing
table as new nodes come on line.  The operator must manually
change every routing table, thus ROSE networks require greater
maintenance times.

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #263
******************************
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 91 04:30:03 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #264
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Sun, 13 Oct 91       Volume 91 : Issue 264

Today's Topics:
                help (2 msgs)
        KISS TNC in Heath Pocket-Packet HK-21?
             Mail Delivery Status
              MSYS 1.12 Wanted (2 msgs)

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 13 Oct 91 20:34:09 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: help
To: [e-mail]



------------------------------

Date: 13 Oct 91 21:10:11 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: help
To: [e-mail]

help

------------------------------

Date: 12 Oct 91 06:40:48 GMT
From: mcsun!cernvax!chx400!adeskch!impch!jattmp![e-mail]
Subject: KISS TNC in Heath Pocket-Packet HK-21?
To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Dave Fritsche) writes:
> [e-mail] (Joachim Astel) writes:
> : I have got a Heath Pocket-Packet HK-21. It is equipped with a TAPR-like
> : software and a mini-bbs (or mailbox), but unfortunately it seems not to
> : have the capability of the "KISS TNC" mode.

> I think that Bdale (at col.hp.com) has the "ROM image" of KISS for the
> pocket packet available for ftp.  Try ftp to "col.hp.com", login anonymous,
> and look in the directory "/packet/etc/firmware".  The file I think you
> want is:
> -rw-r--r--   1 2868     105        32768 Dec 26  1989 u21_kiss.rom
> Bdale's mail address is:  "[e-mail]".

Meanwhile I FPT'ed this nice software. It is named "TASCO" and implements
the "kiss on/off" feature. Many thanks to all of you who have replied to
my problem.

    -Achim
--
Joachim Astel, Wiesenweg 4, W-8566 Leinburg, Germany - S & F: DL9NCQ @ DB0BOX
E-MAIL: [e-mail], [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 13 Oct 91 00:06:56 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Mail Delivery Status
To: [e-mail]

 ***** Error in Mail Delivery *****

SNADS TEMPORARY SERVER ERROR

 Recipients:

 [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 12 Oct 91 19:51:26 GMT
From: usc!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!ncoast![e-mail]
Subject: MSYS 1.12 Wanted
To: [e-mail]

As quoted from <[e-mail]> by [e-mail]:
+---------------
|       Does anybody know were I can FTP a copy of MSYS 1.12 from ?
+---------------

I'll be downloading it from the master site (Cleveland HamNet) later today; if
it's not already archived (in the 1.12 version), someone tell me where to mail
it.  (No ftp access any more, grrr....)

++Brandon
--
Brandon S. Allbery                    KF8NH: DC to LIGHT!  [44.70.4.88]
[e-mail]                    uunet!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!ncoast!allbery

------------------------------

Date: 13 Oct 91 00:13:57 GMT
From: rock!jazz![e-mail]
Subject: MSYS 1.12 Wanted
To: [e-mail]

Does anybody know were I can FTP a copy of MSYS 1.12 from ?

Try /hamradio/ka9q/incoming on ucsd.edu

73 de
   ___   ___ _________ ___   ___ ___   ___ _________       ___
  /  /__/__//  ______//  /__/  //  /__/  //  ______/___   /  /   Derrick Cole
 /   __ __ /  /_____ /_____   //  /  /  //  ______//  /__/  /    44.74.1.110
/__/  /__//________/      /__//________//________//________/     Durham, NC

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #264
******************************
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 91 04:30:04 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #265
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Tue, 15 Oct 91       Volume 91 : Issue 265

Today's Topics:
      FLEA at MIT  This Sunday  OCT 20th    Cambridge MA

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 15 Oct 91 01:36:16 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: FLEA at MIT  This Sunday  OCT 20th    Cambridge MA
To: [e-mail]

This comming Sunday   this seasons last.....

***** 50 cent buyers discount with hardcopy of this notice ********

COMPUTERS - ELECTRONICS - HAM RADIO - COMPUTERS - ELECTRONICS

          FLEA  all SUMMER at MIT
            October 20th,  1991
             9AM-2PM

Come to the city for a great flea - plenty of free parking.

    MIT's  electronics and ham radio flea will take
    place on the third Sunday of each month this summer,
    April thru October.

    There is tailgate space for over 400 sellers and
    free, off-street parking for >1000 cars!

    Buyers admission is $1.50 (you get 50c off if
    you're lucky enough to have a copy of our add)
    and sellers spaces are $8.00-each at the gate.

    The flea will be held at the corner of Albany and
    Main streets in Cambridge; right in the Kendall
    Square area from 9AM to 2PM, with sellers set-up
    time starting at 7AM.

    !! RAIN or SHINE !!  Have no fear of rain, a covered
    tailgate area is available for all sellers (6'8" clearance).

    Talk-in: 146.52 and W1XM/R-449.725/444.725 (PL 114.8/2A).

    Sponsors: MIT Electronics Research Society
          MIT UHF Repeater Association (W1XM)
          MIT Radio Society (W1MX)
          Harvard Wireless Club (W1AF)

    For more info / advanced reservations 617 253 3776

******** 50 cent  buyers discount with hard copy of this notice ************

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #265
******************************
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 91 04:30:05 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #266
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Wed, 16 Oct 91       Volume 91 : Issue 266

Today's Topics:
    Atari 1040 STe MIDI setup for sale or trade (for 386)
            Standardized packet connector

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 15 Oct 91 14:42:27 GMT
From: sdd.hp.com!wupost!m.cs.uiuc.edu!vela![e-mail]
Subject: Atari 1040 STe MIDI setup for sale or trade (for 386)
To: [e-mail]

I have the following for sale:

    NEW Atari 1040 STe (1 Meg, DSDD internal, stereo sound, TOS 1.4)

        just traded my old 520 ST in for it, and found out that
        I can no longer use Flight Simulator on it


    Computer includes the following:

        SF354 SSDD external floppy drive, PS and cables

        NAP analog (orange on black) monitor and cables

        Hayes 2400 Bps Personal modem

        Two Joysticks and a mouse

    Software includes the following:

        Master Trax Pro and 2 MIDI cables cables (CPU has in and out)
            Michtron Super Conductor Sequencer
        Ultra MIDI Music Workstation from MIDI Mouse Music Software

        DBMan V  database III+ compatible database

        LDW Power Spreadsheet (VP planner compatible Spreadsheet
                    with graphical support)

        GSTC C compiler

    Liesure Suit Larry I    The land of the lounge lizards
    Liesure Suit Larry II   Looking for love in several wronge places
    Police Quest II         The Vengeance

        Lots of PD Software including Sozobon C, Uniterm 2.0e,
    Gulam, Nethack, Moria, and lots of utilities/ham radio programs.

    Books that I have for it inlude:

        Computes Atari ST programmers Guide
        Abacus:
            2  Atari ST Internals
            3  Atari ST GEM Programmers Reference
            4  Atari ST Machine Language
            5  Atari ST Tricks & Tips
            6  Atari ST Graphics & Sound
            10 Atari ST Introduction to MIDI Programming
            11 Atari ST BASIC to C
            12 Atari ST 3D Graphics (with disk)
        6502 Assembly language programming (for xfrmr software)

I will include a nice little computer stand, most of the original packaging
materials, as well as 50 + disks.  The reason that I am selling it all, is
because I am looking to get an IBM or an Amiga, or at least perhaps a
Stacy so that I can use the ST portably.  Might be getting a 386 machine
since I want to run Fsim IV, so I would be interested in offers for trades.

I am interested in any and all offers, will try to get rid of the whole
shot if possible as a set, but will keep offers for partials.  I will also
include with the package, Flight Simulator II for the older ST's (if you
have a use for it) and the Prodigy Software that came with the Modem for
PC's.  Please be sure to include whether your offer includes shipping or
not.  Thanks, and hope to do business with you soon...

swood

313-394-0080
--
 ---- Insert favorite .signature here ----      | [e-mail]
                        | [e-mail]
Bitnet:         swood@Oakland                   | [e-mail]
  UUCP:         ...!uunet!umich!{vela, argo, unix, nucleus}!swood

------------------------------

Date: 15 Oct 91 21:37:23 GMT
From: ogicse!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!matt.ksu.ksu.edu![e-mail]
Subject: Standardized packet connector
To: [e-mail]

Thanks for those who have made comments on my last version of the
standard packet connector.  Here is the next update to the idea.

Standard packet connector:
pin 1  - 1200 baud pin (like normal radio's mike port)
pin 2  - 1200 GND
pin 3  - 1200 baud receiver audio (like speaker jack)
pin 4  - 1200 baud receiver audio GND
pin 5  - 9600 baud pin (direct to radio's mixer)
pin 6  - 9600 GND
pin 7  - 9600 baud receive audio
pin 8  - 9600 baud receive audio GND
pin 9  - FSK modem connection (+/- 5V mark/space)
pin 10 - FSK ground
pin 11 - FSK receive
pin 12 - FSK receive ground
pin 13 - TX (ground to key radio)
pin 14 - squelch open (+5v squelch open)
pin 15 - TX/squelch ground



Comments:

 o Shielded cables and connectors seem important.  Twisted pairs
   between the signals and thier respective grounds would cut down
   RFI problems.

 o There may many grounds here.  Are all the grounds needed or
   am I ground happy?  :-)

 o A 15 pin D connector could handle all of these connections and I have
   seen some RFI shielded D connectors before, but they may have some
   impedance bumps at high frequencies.  Any suggestions for a better
   connector?  Some more pins would be nice for future additions.

 o Electrical isolation / lightning protection has not been included.
   This would be a valuable addition.

 o With a combination of this connector and a standard computer control
   connector (an extension to multi-drop KISS?), a computer controlled
   packet station could be just plug and play.


-Steve Schallehn  KB0AGD

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #266
******************************
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 91 04:30:04 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #267
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Thu, 17 Oct 91       Volume 91 : Issue 267

Today's Topics:
     FLEA at MIT   Sunday 20 Oct    Cambridge MA (2 msgs)
             Kenwood 2600 Setup?
            Standardized packet connector
                 test

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 16 Oct 91 13:42:52 GMT
From: pa.dec.com!Jim -- MLO3-6/14B -- DTN 223-5747 <[e-mail]>@decwrl.dec.com
Subject: FLEA at MIT   Sunday 20 Oct    Cambridge MA
To: [e-mail]

This is the last one of the summer.....

***** 50 cent buyers discount with hardcopy of this notice ********

COMPUTERS - ELECTRONICS - HAM RADIO - COMPUTERS - ELECTRONICS

           FLEA all SUMMER at MIT
          Sunday, October 20, 1991
             9AM-2PM

Come to the city for a great flea - plenty of free parking.

    MIT's  electronics and ham radio flea will take
    place on the third Sunday of each month this summer,
    April thru October.

    There is tailgate space for over 400 sellers and
    free, off-street parking for >1000 cars!

    Buyers admission is $1.50 (you get 50c off if
    you're lucky enough to have a copy of our add)
    and sellers spaces are $8.00-each at the gate
    or $5.00 if mailed by the preceding 5th. A sellers
    Season Pass for all 7 sundays is available for $28
    if purchased by April 21st

    The flea will be held at the corner of Albany and
    Main streets in Cambridge; right in the Kendall
    Square area from 9AM to 2PM, with sellers set-up
    time starting at 7AM.

    !! RAIN or SHINE !!  Have no fear of rain, a covered
    tailgate area is available for all sellers (6'8" clearance).

    Talk-in: 146.52 and W1XM/R-449.725/444.725 (PL 114.8/2A).

    Sponsors: MIT Electronics Research Society
          MIT UHF Repeater Association (W1XM)
          MIT Radio Society (W1MX)
          Harvard Wireless Club (W1AF)

    For more info / advanced reservations 617 253 3776

******** 50 cent  buyers discount with hard copy of this notice ************

------------------------------

Date: 16 Oct 91 13:56:11 GMT
From: pa.dec.com!sttng![e-mail]
Subject: FLEA at MIT   Sunday 20 Oct    Cambridge MA
To: [e-mail]

This is the last one of the summer.....

***** 50 cent buyers discount with hardcopy of this notice ********

COMPUTERS - ELECTRONICS - HAM RADIO - COMPUTERS - ELECTRONICS

           FLEA all SUMMER at MIT
          Sunday, October 20, 1991
             9AM-2PM

Come to the city for a great flea - plenty of free parking.

    MIT's  electronics and ham radio flea will take
    place on the third Sunday of each month this summer,
    April thru October.

    There is tailgate space for over 400 sellers and
    free, off-street parking for >1000 cars!

    Buyers admission is $1.50 (you get 50c off if
    you're lucky enough to have a copy of our add)
    and sellers spaces are $8.00-each at the gate
    or $5.00 if mailed by the preceding 5th. A sellers
    Season Pass for all 7 sundays is available for $28
    if purchased by April 21st

    The flea will be held at the corner of Albany and
    Main streets in Cambridge; right in the Kendall
    Square area from 9AM to 2PM, with sellers set-up
    time starting at 7AM.

    !! RAIN or SHINE !!  Have no fear of rain, a covered
    tailgate area is available for all sellers (6'8" clearance).

    Talk-in: 146.52 and W1XM/R-449.725/444.725 (PL 114.8/2A).

    Sponsors: MIT Electronics Research Society
          MIT UHF Repeater Association (W1XM)
          MIT Radio Society (W1MX)
          Harvard Wireless Club (W1AF)

    For more info / advanced reservations 617 253 3776

******** 50 cent  buyers discount with hard copy of this notice ************

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

I only work for Digital, they don't pay me enough to speak for them also.

James J. Reisert                Internet:  [e-mail]
Digital Equipment Corp.         UUCP:      ...decwrl!mast.enet!reisert
146 Main Street                 Voice:     508-493-5747
Maynard, MA  01754              FAX:       [phone]

------------------------------

Date: 16 Oct 91 00:52:44 GMT
From: bloom-beacon!bu.edu!dartvax!mars.caps.maine.edu!gandalf![e-mail]
Subject: Kenwood 2600 Setup?
To: [e-mail]

A friend is trying to figure out how to interface his new(?)
Kenwood 2600 to his TNC and the brave new world of packet.
Can anyone provide the pin out instructions?

Thanks.

Peter
--
---------------------------
Peter B. Hayward                                    WX9T
University of Maine                         207-581-1545

------------------------------

Date: 16 Oct 91 08:40:52 GMT
From: mcsun!news.funet.fi!cc.tut.fi![e-mail]
Subject: Standardized packet connector
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Steve Schallehn) writes:
>Thanks for those who have made comments on my last version of the
>standard packet connector.  Here is the next update to the idea.
>
>Standard packet connector:
>pin 1  - 1200 baud pin (like normal radio's mike port)
>pin 2  - 1200 GND
>pin 3  - 1200 baud receiver audio (like speaker jack)
>pin 4  - 1200 baud receiver audio GND
>pin 5  - 9600 baud pin (direct to radio's mixer)
>pin 6  - 9600 GND
>pin 7  - 9600 baud receive audio
>pin 8  - 9600 baud receive audio GND
>pin 9  - FSK modem connection (+/- 5V mark/space)
>pin 10 - FSK ground
>pin 11 - FSK receive
>pin 12 - FSK receive ground
>pin 13 - TX (ground to key radio)
OB>pin 14 - squelch open (+5v squelch open)
>pin 15 - TX/squelch ground
>
>
>
>Comments:
>
> o Shielded cables and connectors seem important.  Twisted pairs
>   between the signals and thier respective grounds would cut down
>   RFI problems.

How about stressing the importance of filtering? They sell D connectors
with built-in filtering. Although these are quite expensive, they do
reduce greatly the amount of stray RF radiating through the TNC cables.

>
> o There may many grounds here.  Are all the grounds needed or
>   am I ground happy?  :-)

I believe you ground everything to the same ground. However, it is
neat to have a liberal amount of ground pins available if you deal
with separate shielded cables for every 'mode'.

>
> o A 15 pin D connector could handle all of these connections and I have
>   seen some RFI shielded D connectors before, but they may have some
>   impedance bumps at high frequencies.  Any suggestions for a better
>   connector?  Some more pins would be nice for future additions.

How about the 37-pin size D with two 50-ohm SMB connectors for higher
speeds. Don't know if you can get those with RFI filtering, though.

>
> o Electrical isolation / lightning protection has not been included.
>   This would be a valuable addition.
>

How often do you usually install anything else than rotors and antennas
so that they nee lightning protection? You can install audio transformers
and optoisolators if the need arises, otherwise in my opinion it is
overkill to isolate everything any time.

> o With a combination of this connector and a standard computer control
>   connector (an extension to multi-drop KISS?), a computer controlled
>   packet station could be just plug and play.
>

Right. I have TNC's made to two different standards, at least three versions
of RS232 and a bunch of radios each having its own audio/ptt standard. I
have been QRT on packet for months since I haven't been able to make another
cable between my TNC and my new handheld (yes, the cable made for its
predecessor *does not fit*, of course).

BTW we here use widely the Kantronics 9-pin standard. It was adopted when
one of us had a KPC-II and the others who built their own made a decision
of some kind of standard. It is quite handy when you can use your own TNC
with somebody else's radio at a Field Day.

73 de Benjamin OH3BK
--
Pentti "Benjamin" Gr|nlund, [e-mail], Gr|nlund_Pentti_OMNI (elisa)
Life member of the International Association for Adjustment Aces  OH3BK@OH3RBR
 - There are no ugly women in this world - just too few bottles of beer. -

------------------------------

Date: 16 Oct 91 05:42:26 GMT
From: bobsbox!graphics![e-mail]
Subject: test
To: [e-mail]

Just a Test of a crosspost.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internet: [e-mail]                PcPursuitable via NJNBR
    UUCP: rutgers!bobsbox!graphics!hank
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #267
******************************
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 91 04:30:07 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #268
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Fri, 18 Oct 91       Volume 91 : Issue 268

Today's Topics:
        Getting started on amateur TCP/IP (need help)
            Standardized packet connector

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 17 Oct 91 20:56:35 GMT
From: usc!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi![e-mail]
Subject: Getting started on amateur TCP/IP (need help)
To: [e-mail]

     I would like to get started in amateur TCP/IP. I have got radios and TNCs
and computer hardware, but no software. The machine I will be using is running
SCO Xenix386 2.3. I do not have the SCO TCP/IP networking package as it is
prohibitivly expensive. I have spoken to people who are running KA9Q's code on
the amiga and with MS-DOS. Rather than trying to port one of those versions
which were written for entirely different environment, I thought it would be
best to start with some unix version of the code. I would appreciate any
advice on getting the appropriate code to start from, so that  I can minimize
amount of hacking I have to do to get it to run under Xenix.


     73, N2IKZ - Greg

[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 17 Oct 91 17:29:15 GMT
From: mcsun!uknet!ukc!acorn![e-mail]
Subject: Standardized packet connector
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Steve Schallehn) writes:
>Thanks for those who have made comments on my last version of the
>standard packet connector.  Here is the next update to the idea.
>
>Standard packet connector:
>pin 1  - 1200 baud pin (like normal radio's mike port)
>pin 2  - 1200 GND
>pin 3  - 1200 baud receiver audio (like speaker jack)
>pin 4  - 1200 baud receiver audio GND
>pin 5  - 9600 baud pin (direct to radio's mixer)
>pin 6  - 9600 GND
>pin 7  - 9600 baud receive audio
>pin 8  - 9600 baud receive audio GND
>pin 9  - FSK modem connection (+/- 5V mark/space)
>pin 10 - FSK ground
>pin 11 - FSK receive
>pin 12 - FSK receive ground
>pin 13 - TX (ground to key radio)
>pin 14 - squelch open (+5v squelch open)
>pin 15 - TX/squelch ground
>

I think the audio levels should be specified too, and I don't like
the use of +5V signals .. the 'squelch open' should be an open
collector signal, like the PTT. It's also not clear whether you
mean '+5V when the squelch has opened' or '+5V to force the squelch
to open'. I suppose the former, since you'd probably use the 9600
baud pins if you can use unsquelched audio.
You should specify the maximum voltages that inputs like PTT are
pulled up to, and what the pulldown requirements are.

Specifying the pin usage by 1200baud / 9600baud seems irrelevant -
should be 'equalised&squelched' versus 'direct'.

I think you mean the FSK signals as digital i/o to an onboard modem -
in that case, they might be better as differential signals - RS423,
or whatever it's called now.

A power supply from the radio to the TNC would be useful, but perhaps
more trouble (what current limiting, what voltage, etc), than it's worth.

-adrian, g7hwn.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adrian Godwin                                        ([e-mail])

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #268
******************************
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 91 04:30:07 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #269
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Sat, 19 Oct 91       Volume 91 : Issue 269

Today's Topics:
         Kantronics "RF Packet Modem" solved
   Looking for recommendations for "pocket" TNC for laptop (2 msgs)
              Looking for Steve Roberts
                 Packet Radio
            Standardized packet connector
          World Wide Packet BBS Bulletin Designator?

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 18 Oct 91 05:23:53 GMT
From: ucselx!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!munnari.oz.au!metro!ipso![e-mail]
Subject: Kantronics "RF Packet Modem" solved
To: [e-mail]

You may remember a previous posting of mine, on this weird TNC, and
some responded with hints etc.  Well, I finally heard from Kantronics
themselves - it's a commercial version (as I thought) of their KPC-2400
(which I've never come across), and no - it does _not_ use AX.25 :-(

However, the good news appears to be that a simple EPROM swap is all
that is required, and the better news is that there is a dealer right
here in Oz - Stewarts Electronics.  'Course, he may not want to know
about upgrading something he never sold, but I'll try...  He's also
better known as the local MFJ dealer.

By the way, Kantronics tell me the RFPM retails for US$500, so I hope
they don't make up the difference in the EPROM price :-)

One day I'll try and figure out just what protocol it does use, but
for now I'll obtain the KPC-2400 EPROM.  Thanks to all who responded.

--
Dave Horsfall (VK2KFU)         VK2KFU @ VK2RWI.NSW.AUS.OC
[e-mail]                  ...munnari!ips.OZ.AU!dave

------------------------------

Date: 18 Oct 91 13:52:55 GMT
From: gatech!uflorida!pine.circa.ufl.edu![e-mail]
Subject: Looking for recommendations for "pocket" TNC for laptop
To: [e-mail]

What do you use?  What do you recommend?
What does what you use support (KISS, AX.25, etc).
What support does the maker give?
What gives?
What duh?

Replies by e-mail.  Will post summary if warranted.

Danke schon.

[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 18 Oct 91 14:19:38 GMT
From: gatech!uflorida!pine.circa.ufl.edu![e-mail]
Subject: Looking for recommendations for "pocket" TNC for laptop
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] ("HOBBES") writes...
>What do you use?  What do you recommend?
>What does what you use support (KISS, AX.25, etc).
>What support does the maker give?
>What gives?
>What duh?
>
>Replies by e-mail.  Will post summary if warranted.
>
>Danke schon.
>
>[e-mail]

And what's the cost?  And where's the best place to get what you
recommend.

(I, of course, am looking exclusively at U.S. bordered mail
mail order firms, so e-mail replies directly to me, as
stated in my original post.)

Thank you in advanced.

[e-mail]

end-of-article.

------------------------------

Date: 18 Oct 91 20:16:17 GMT
From: mvb.saic.com!unogate!orion.oac.uci.edu!usc!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu![e-mail]
Subject: Looking for Steve Roberts
To: [e-mail]

I need to find out from any of yous out there where I might find an
address for Steve Roberts... SPARC rider extrodinaire...


- Dat Ollie Guy

Representative of Students for the Exploration and Development of Space
Burping for a better tomorrow, today!

------------------------------

Date: 18 Oct 91 23:45:16 GMT
From: ogicse!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu![e-mail]
Subject: Packet Radio
To: [e-mail]

Sorry if this is a FAQ:

What kind of licensing is required for use packet radio?

What is required to get the license?

How long will it take to get the license?


I am new to this and want to get into it.  I'm not sure where to start.
I currently have no radio experience.

Thanks for your help,

--
* Wayne A. Hogue II                 [e-mail]     *
*                                   [e-mail]        *
* CSU C-M Law Library               [e-mail] *
* Automation Department                                         *

------------------------------

Date: 18 Oct 91 00:44:06 GMT
From: van-bc!oneb!smits![e-mail]
Subject: Standardized packet connector
To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Steve Schallehn) writes:

> Thanks for those who have made comments on my last version of the
> standard packet connector.  Here is the next update to the idea.
>
> Standard packet connector:
> pin 1  - 1200 baud pin (like normal radio's mike port)
> pin 2  - 1200 GND
> pin 3  - 1200 baud receiver audio (like speaker jack)
> pin 4  - 1200 baud receiver audio GND
> pin 5  - 9600 baud pin (direct to radio's mixer)
> pin 6  - 9600 GND
> pin 7  - 9600 baud receive audio
> pin 8  - 9600 baud receive audio GND
> pin 9  - FSK modem connection (+/- 5V mark/space)
> pin 10 - FSK ground
> pin 11 - FSK receive
> pin 12 - FSK receive ground
> pin 13 - TX (ground to key radio)
> pin 14 - squelch open (+5v squelch open)
> pin 15 - TX/squelch ground
>
>
The approach you are taking may be a perfectly valid exercise for you,
but I suspect most of us simply can't be bothered to make all our gear
conform to some oddball ( no flames, now :-)  ) standard using yet
another connector - and also one that probably isn't easily obtainable in
many areas. And why limit yourself to such slow speeds? At least, if you
used a DB-25 lots of us would have one, and you'd have room left over for
future expansion. I think you'll meet a lot of "why bother" resistance on
this one.
73, Bob

Robert Smits  VE7EMD Nanaimo B.C. Ph [phone]            __|
e-mail: [e-mail] Fax [phone]       _/. |\
VE7EMD@VE7KIT.#VANC.BC.CAN.NOAM                             <   (0)
                     CQ DX ! CQ DX !   _   /__    |
                              ( ) <_______/
                               \ \/       \



------------------------------

Date: 18 Oct 91 10:04:51 GMT
From: mcsun!news.funet.fi!fuug!nntp.hut.fi!vipunen.hut.fi![e-mail]
Subject: World Wide Packet BBS Bulletin Designator?
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Grant Willis VK5ZWI) writes:
Hello,

>I think in Europe they use either @WW or @WWW but here in Australia

That's correct. We see this WW like World Wide. In Finland @OH ofcourse
means @FINLAND

>we see all @WW/@WWW bulletins swapped to @ASIA (or @AS) bulletins.

Why? I see no reason to that other than there might be some users
who like to send 10 kb big bulletins in Dansih to @WW. But that too
can be prevented, I think.

>one (extend the existing one used in Europe)? I would seem to

That is what I would suggest! It seems pretty logic to me.

>So what should it be? Should we (sysops) change anything?

Stop swapping WW to asia or what ever, and use WW for World Wide, is
what I would suggest.

>Comments / hints welcome. Flames > /dev/null

Be my guest :)

Timo OH6KK/OH2LVZ Sysop @ OH2RBI.FIN.EU

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #269
******************************
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 91 04:30:08 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #270
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Sun, 20 Oct 91       Volume 91 : Issue 270

Today's Topics:
        900 Mhz Packet Backbone in Washington, DC area

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 19 Oct 91 16:07:00 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: 900 Mhz Packet Backbone in Washington, DC area
To: [e-mail]


[The following are a couple of packet messages from the MDCBBS (Maryland-DC
Section) packet network regarding ongoing plans to build a 900 Mhz backbone
for packet in the Washington, DC area, to be expanded to Richmond and
Philadelphia.  Equipment will be surplus cellular-phone equipment modified to
work in the 902-928 band with 9600 or 19.2K TNCs or radio modems running
AX.25.  Emphasis seems to be initially on practical, existing, off the
shelf equipment and technologies to get something going, then once the
idea proves viable from a reliability and propogation standpoint, migrating to
more sophisticated techniques including higher baud rates and possibly TCP/IP.
Again, the DC-area packet sysops seem to be (commendably) concentrating on
positive action rather than blue-sky talk.

If you wish to become involved in such a project, or desire more information,
contact one of the original packet posters below.  I don't have any
information beyond what I have already included in this message.]

MSG # TR  SIZE TO     FROM   @BBS   DATE    TITLE
15479 B#  3069 NETWRK W3IWI  MDCBBS 911015 Help needed on networking project
Forwarding path: W3IWI

Some of you may have followed the discussions over the past month -- several
of us in MD, VA and PA are trying to build a real, high-speed packet backbone.
I have suggested that the corridor from Richmond to Philly should be the first
target.

We came into a windfall recently when we obtained over a hundred 900 MHz
radios that were surplussed from cellular telephone base stations in the
Richmond area. The radios are all set up to be able to run 19.2 kb/sec
digital data on point-to-point links.

The radios will require only minor modifications to work on the 902-928 MHz
amateur band, but having suitable radios is but one necessary item. Here are
some tasks that we need volunteers to assist on:

 - Several small circuit boards to provide circuitry not in the celluar
   radios are needed. We need people with design experience to prototype
   and develop the widgets, someone to lay out the circuit boards, someone
   who has the ability to make circuit boards (probably double-sided, in
   quantities of 25 to 100 copies), and someone to undertake the task of
   building them up.

 - The radios are useless without antennas. Most of them will be used on
   point-to-point links where some directivity and antenna gain is desired.
   Antennas might be ordinary yagis, loop yagis, cylindrical parabolids, etc.
   We need someone with a modest machine shop capability to take on the
   antenna building project. A shop equipped with a drill press, sheet metal
   shear, bandsaw and possibly a lathe would be ideal.

 - We will be looking for suitable sites. We must remember that the real
   cellular systems have base stations operating just below the amateur band,
   and many of the new paging systems have STRONG! signals just above the
   band. My guess is that we will be better off with good (but not super)
   locations which don't have a lot of QRM. They probably should be 25-35
   miles apart so that the point-to-point links have good, solid signals
   with no QSB. We will need people who know the area to look for suitable
   locations (perhaps at amateurs homes?) and to verify that the sites are
   QRM free.

 - Some of these sites can just be dumb relay sites. But many will need to
   have high-speed multi-point digital switches so that the network can
   "feed" the users. The nature of the "data pump" we use to make these
   switches is not clear -- but the TNC2's used in most of the NetRom/
   TheNet switches will be inadequate. We need to have a group of people
   who can either design the proper switch hardware&software or who will
   choose the commercial hardware that will be used.

Building a proper packet radio network that will meet our needs for the
next several years won't be easy or cheap. We will need the support of all
the area packet radio users to make it happen. Volunteers, please step
forward. Comments are solicited.

73, Tom

*** END OF MSG # 15479 from W3IWI @ W3IWI.MD.USA.NOAM

MSG # TR  SIZE TO     FROM   @BBS   DATE    TITLE
15523 B#  2457 NETWRK K3AKK  MDCBBS 911015 The 900 MHz packet backbone
Forwarding path: W3IWI N4QQ
From: [e-mail]
To: NETWRK@MDCBBS


The logical location for 900 mHz nodes is at the present node sites: PHL,
SALEM (NJ), ELK, NAVY (or KENTI), DCA, PMILLS, KGEO, RICNDS.  The 900 mHz
nodes would replace the current 440/222/50/222 backbone.  These sites are 30
to 35 miles apart and would have "crushing" signals at the 40 watt power
level with gain antennas.

The technology that is immediately available is TNC2 with 9600 baud modems
and AX.25.   Some node sites have already upgraded to 19200 on their
matrices and it should be standard.  One should not discount the parallel
processing power of the Z-80s in a node complex, with TNC communicating on
the matrix with a handshaking protocol.

As better technology becomes available we can upgrade the network.  We
should not make immediate plans based on technology that isn't available
now and complex software yet to be written.

It would be logical to have two 900 MHz nodes at the sites with one antenna
pointed north and the other south.  The 900 MHz nodes would interconnect
with the other slower speed nodes at each site on a 19200 matrix.

There should be no access to the network at the network speed (9600) and, as
AC4DS points out, the 900 network should be open to all packet flow.  As he
suggests, we COULD NOT expect amateur clubs and their members or, indeed,
the general packet community to donate money and time to a network
benefitting only BBS and closed to 1200 baud users on the present network.

The equipment requirements in the DCASC area of responsibility would be 8
radio transmitter/receivers, 8 TNC/9600 modems, 8 antennas and feedlines and
expansion of the matrices at the four node sites.  This equates to $700 to
$800 per site not including the radios, purchased by DCASC, and now being
modified.

PHL and SALEM to the north and KGEO and RICNDS to the south would be the
responsibility of the neighboring jurisdictions.

This is what we could have in place by next spring.  More elaborate schemes
would take longer.

I can have K3AF-9:DCA900, with beam antenna and a 9600 TNC, ready to accept
radio equipment for network testing within 4 weeks if this is the way we
agree to do it.

73, Dick - K3AKK @ N4QQ    NodeOp DCA nodes

*** END OF MSG # 15523 from K3AKK @ N4QQ.MD.USA

------

Relayed to the Internet by Paul W. Schleck, KD3FU, [e-mail]

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #270
******************************
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 91 04:30:05 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #271
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Tue, 22 Oct 91       Volume 91 : Issue 271

Today's Topics:
      BEAMCALC: A radiation pattern calculation program (2 msgs)

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 15 Oct 91 12:10:14 GMT
From: mcsun!unido!pbinfo!uni-paderborn.de![e-mail]
Subject: BEAMCALC: A radiation pattern calculation program
To: [e-mail]

           B E A M C A L C

          program


BEAMCALC calculates the horizontal and vertical
radiation patterns of horizontal dipole (lambda/2)
antennas---with and without ground reflection.
  Up to 64 dipoles with different X/Y/Z-coordinates,
currents, and phases are possible.
  It can help you to better understand how antennas
work. You can even use it for the design of your
personal antenna.
  Required hardware: IBM PC with Hercules or EGA/VGA
graphics card. 8087 is supported.
  It is available at a low price: Only DM 89,--
(= 50 US $) + shipping cost.
  Distribution on  a 5 1/4" diskette (including
many antennas) plus English manual.
  For more information write to:

  Oliver Najmann Software
  Sonnenhalde 15
  D-7034 Gaertringen
  Germany

  (E-mail: [e-mail])


------------------------------

Date: 21 Oct 91 12:42:11 GMT
From: mcsun!unido!pbinfo!uni-paderborn.de![e-mail]
Subject: BEAMCALC: A radiation pattern calculation program
To: [e-mail]

            The
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Oct 91 12:10:14 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (News Uni-Paderborn)
Organization: Universitaet-Gesamthochschule Paderborn
Lines: 29
Nntp-Posting-Host: baltrum


           B E A M C A L C

          program


BEAMCALC calculates the horizontal and vertical
radiation patterns of horizontal dipole (lambda/2)
antennas---with and without ground reflection.
  Up to 64 dipoles with different X/Y/Z-coordinates,
currents, and phases are possible.
  It can help you to better understand how antennas
work. You can even use it for the design of your
personal antenna.
  Required hardware: IBM PC with Hercules or EGA/VGA
graphics card. 8087 is supported.
  It is available at a low price: Only DM 89,--
(= 50 US $) + shipping cost.
  Distribution on  a 5 1/4" diskette (including
many antennas) plus English manual.
  For more information write to:

  Oliver Najmann Software
  Sonnenhalde 15
  D-7034 Gaertringen
  Germany

  (E-mail: [e-mail])


------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #271
******************************
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 91 04:30:03 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #272
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Wed, 23 Oct 91       Volume 91 : Issue 272

Today's Topics:
                 PAC-COMM 220

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 22 Oct 91 13:37:04 GMT
From: orca!javelin.sim.es.com!omega.sim.es.com![e-mail]
Subject: PAC-COMM 220
To: [e-mail]

I am fairly new to packet and need some help.  I am having some strange
things happen
when I attempt to use my packet.  It is a PAC-COMM 220 that was built up
from
a kit board.  This is hooked up to my kenwood tm-321 running at 10 watts
into a ringo
ranger.
    Anyway I can connect to some stations but not all stations that I
can hear.  I can connect to a node that is 30 miles from my house, but I
can't
connect to my neighbor that is 3 blocks away.  I can connect to my
neighbor that is
2 blocks away the other direction.   One case I get a connect message,
but then
that is all I get and eventually I get a retries exceeded and it dumps
me out.  I can
watch the meter on my radio and when my packet is sent out , I see an
immediate
response back from the neighbors TNC and the signal is at least 20b
over.  Another
strange case I got during the SET was I connected to a node and his node
said
that I was connected, but I never was shown a connect message on my end.
In
addition, he was connected to my node and again I never  heard any of
the
conversation that he sent.
    Is there some parameters that seem obvious here that I should try.
axdelay 0
axhang 0
check 30
clkadj 0
cmdtime 1
cpactime off
dwait 16
frack 7
pactime 10
persist 127
resptime 0
slottime 127
txdelay 30


                Thanks,
                    Mike

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #272
******************************
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 91 04:30:04 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #273
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Thu, 24 Oct 91       Volume 91 : Issue 273

Today's Topics:
        900 Mhz Packet Backbone in Washington, DC area
                KAM/NOS Query
             KISS and other FAQ's
              Looking for Steve Roberts
         Modem for Packet Radio and telephone
             NETROM Protocol Doc. Online?

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 24 Oct 91 03:44:57 GMT
From: elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!caen!uvaarpa!cube![e-mail]
Subject: 900 Mhz Packet Backbone in Washington, DC area
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(ps67) writes:
>
>
>[The following are a couple of packet messages from the MDCBBS (Maryland-DC
>Section) packet network regarding ongoing plans to build a 900 Mhz backbone
>for packet in the Washington, DC area, to be expanded to Richmond and
>Philadelphia.  Equipment will be surplus cellular-phone equipment modified to
>work in the 902-928 band with 9600 or 19.2K TNCs or radio modems running
>AX.25.  Emphasis seems to be initially on practical, existing, off the
>shelf equipment and technologies to get something going, then once the
>idea proves viable from a reliability and propogation standpoint, migrating to
>more sophisticated techniques including higher baud rates and possibly TCP/IP.
>Again, the DC-area packet sysops seem to be (commendably) concentrating on
>positive action rather than blue-sky talk.
>
>If you wish to become involved in such a project, or desire more information,
>contact one of the original packet posters below.  I don't have any
>information beyond what I have already included in this message.]
>

[two messages deleted]
>------
>
>Relayed to the Internet by Paul W. Schleck, KD3FU, [e-mail]
>
I would point out that rather than a 2 step approach (expensive!) you posted
messages from two different 'camps' that don't agree!

Jim De Arras (WA4ONG/RICNDS)

------------------------------

Date: 24 Oct 91 00:16:25 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: KAM/NOS Query
To: [e-mail]

The following comes from Glenn VE3GCI...  I know zilch about KAMs, but I'm
sure there must be some KAM gurus on the net.  I don't think there's a way
of putting a TNC into KISS mode using the autoexec.net file, but there are
probably some little programs around that can do the job from a batch
file.  All replies will be relayed to Glenn...

--- begin included message ---

       I am presently installing NOS to run packet. My TNC is a KAM
and I have questions on how to set KISS mode on when I load NOS. I don't
want to perm it in so at present I load PCPLUS, set INtface to KISS,
CONMode to TR, and RESET. Then I get out of PCPLUS, load NET and away I
go. I think there must be a way to insert a statement in the AUTOEXEC.NOS
file to do this but if there is I cannot figure it out. If there is a way
will it also work for a PK232?.

        The other question I have is how to specify that I want to use
the HF port of the KAM which I assume will be AX1. My attach statement for
port 0 is as follows:   attach asy 0x3f8 4 ax25 ax0 2048 256 9600. Hope
this helps.

        I have been running MSY and all the above works fine so if I
can get the parameters set correctly for NOS then away it should go.

        Thanks very much for your time.

                    73.....Glenn VE3GCI  44.135.84.12

--- end included message ---

Barry VE3JF

------------------------------

Date: 23 Oct 91 11:34:04 GMT
From: usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!spool.mu.edu!munnari.oz.au!metro!ipso![e-mail]
Subject: KISS and other FAQ's
To: [e-mail]

I realise this is probably a FAQ, but, where can I find out the KISS
protocol specification?  I'm looking to do a CP/M implementation.
I gather it's a framing protocol, much like SLIP, but the bits I looked
at certainly aren't SLIP...

And on the subject of FAQ's, is "HOST" mode any relation to KISS?  I have
vague recollections of watching with amusement, with the aid of a serial
analyser (sadly no longer available), of the SV7AIZ BBS software belting
the heck out of the TNC...  I think it used HOST mode - it certainly was
going "hammer and tongs" anyway, and needed a special EPROM for it.  That
was long ago (we run W0RLI now) so my memory is hazy.

Final FAQ: are the specs for NET/ROM, ROSE, and other level 3 protocols
available?  I'm the sort of weirdo who prefers to "write his own".

--
Dave Horsfall (VK2KFU)         VK2KFU @ VK2RWI.NSW.AUS.OC
[e-mail]                  ...munnari!ips.OZ.AU!dave

------------------------------

Date: 24 Oct 91 03:47:07 GMT
From: elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!caen!uvaarpa!cube![e-mail]
Subject: Looking for Steve Roberts
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Ollie Purt) writes:
>I need to find out from any of yous out there where I might find an
>address for Steve Roberts... SPARC rider extrodinaire...
>
>
>- Dat Ollie Guy
>
>Representative of Students for the Exploration and Development of Space
>Burping for a better tomorrow, today!
>

[e-mail] should reach him.  By packet, use N4RVE@WA4ONG.

Jim De Arras (WA4ONG)

------------------------------

Date: 23 Oct 91 18:48:09 GMT
From: mcsun!cernvax!chx400!bernina!neptune![e-mail]
Subject: Modem for Packet Radio and telephone
To: [e-mail]

I'm a student in computer science and I'm looking for
a modem that could be used both on Packet Radio and with
a standard telephone line.
Does exist such a modem/packet controller ?

Any help will be appreciated.
TXS in advance

---
Cedric Baechler HE9CUN
Email : [e-mail]
Switzerland

------------------------------

Date: 23 Oct 91 23:14:15 GMT
From: ubc-cs!alberta!aunro!aupair.cs.athabascau.ca![e-mail]
Subject: NETROM Protocol Doc. Online?
To: [e-mail]

Is there a description of the NETROM protocol online anywhere?

--
       atha!cs.athabascau.ca!lyndon || [e-mail]
            Packet: [e-mail]
    As a math atheist, I should be excused from this.   --Calvin

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #273
******************************
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 91 04:30:05 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #274
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Fri, 25 Oct 91       Volume 91 : Issue 274

Today's Topics:
               (none) (2 msgs)
               9600 baud packet
              aa4re bbs and nos
              AX.25 disconnects
                 HF TCP/IP ?
            KAM/NOS Query (3 msgs)
             KISS and other FAQ's

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 24 Oct 91 20:59:52 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: (none)
To: [e-mail]

To: Nancy

Thank you for the response. I have since met with Otis and have a better unders
tanding of what our trip will entail.

One thing that would be of interest is if our University Architect, and myself
as head of Facilities Planning, could meet your Universtiy Architect and Facili
tes Planning head. Possibly this could be arranged around one of the dinners.

Thank you very much for your help.

Bob Bennett

------------------------------

Date: 25 Oct 91 01:34:36 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: (none)
To: [e-mail]

>From [e-mail] Thu Oct 24 08:13:16 1991
Received: from pi8eae by pi8mac.ampr.org with SMTP
    id AA00023495 ; Thu, 24 Oct 91 09:11:53 MET
Received: from pi8eae by pi8eae with SMTP
    id AA5593 ; Thu, 24 Oct 91 08:59:42 MET
Received: from pi8eae.bbs by pi8eae with BBSFWD
    id AA5591 ; Thu, 24 Oct 91 08:54:39 MET
Date: 19 Oct 91 00:08 Z
Message-Id: <5591@pi8eae>
From: [e-mail]
To: pa2aga
Subject: RE: PacketRadio Digest 91/257
X-BBS-Msg-Type: P
X-BBS-Path: la9k!oz2pac!oz7bbs!oz8box!oz8bbs!oz7box!db0hes!db0hb!db0cl
        db0obk!db0aha!pi8daz!pi8eae

HELLO
JUST SOME COMMENTS ON STANDARD PACKET RADIO CONNECTOR, THIS CERTAINLY
DOES NOT PROVIDE FOR DUPLEX OPERATION, WHICH SEEM TO INTEREST IN
PARTICULARLY GERMANY

73 DE JAN-MARTIN
LA8AK@LA9K

------------------------------

Date: 24 Oct 91 19:31:28 GMT
From: infopiz!lupine!pepper![e-mail]
Subject: 9600 baud packet
To: [e-mail]

Is there anyone out there who has experiance with the Kantronics Data
Engine / 9600 baud modem and there 440 radio?

How about PacComm?


Phil
DE KJ6NN

------------------------------

Date: 24 Oct 91 13:52:34 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: aa4re bbs and nos
To: [e-mail]

I am looking for anyone who has aa4re bbs software set up and forwards
to a nos bbs. I have some specific questions on how to get the two to disconnect.
I am also looking for a way to set up running aa4re software and give the bbs
users a choice of using ax25 or nos.

--------------------------------------------------------
David M. Ihle   Internet        [e-mail]  |
WB5MSB  Amateur radio  WB5MSB@K4RY.#CENAL.AL.USA.NOAM  |
NOAA/National Weather Service   [phone] (voice) |
SE Ag Weather Service Center          534-4511 (FTS)   |
Auburn University, Alabama      [phone] (FAX)   |
--------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

Date: 24 Oct 91 08:48:14 GMT
From: ncar!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!dsinc!wells![e-mail]
Subject: AX.25 disconnects
To: [e-mail]

  I connect to a node in Trevose, Penna known as BEARS2.  This node
constantly disconnect me.  Does anyone else have problems like this?
My 'STA' light drops within the first or second send almost always,
the station on the other side of the node also get acknowledged
quickly also, yet in the middle of a transmission, the old
"BEARS2 DISCONNECTED" message appears for no reason.  This is a
very busy node, however, these disconnect make it absolutely
useless.  These results have been tested with many TNC owners
running various equipment....same results.

  My educated guess is that the 'connected table' is getting wiped
out with data buffer overflows when the node gets busy.  The recent
increase in TCP/IP activity has made normal Node communications almost
impossible to stay connected.

  Anyone able to shed more light on this problem?

--
=========================================================================
Edward E. Wells Jr., N3IAS, President               Voice: (215)-943-6061
Wells Computer Systems Corp., Box 343, Levittown, Pa. 19058
{dsinc,francis,hotps,houxl,lgnp1,mdi386,pebco}!wells!edw

------------------------------

Date: 24 Oct 91 07:25:34 GMT
From: mcsun!uknet!ukc!pyrltd!root44!praxis![e-mail]
Subject: HF TCP/IP ?
To: [e-mail]

Hi!

I seem to remember a discussion about TCP/IP activity on HF in this group
some months ago. Could anyone mail me or followup with any details of HF
TCP/IP activity please ?

Thanks, Mike (G6DHU)

------------------------------

Date: 24 Oct 91 06:23:02 GMT
From: elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!munnari.oz.au!manuel!sserve![e-mail]
Subject: KAM/NOS Query
To: [e-mail]



------------------------------

Date: 24 Oct 91 11:23:22 GMT
From: news.hawaii.edu!mpg.phys.hawaii.edu![e-mail]
Subject: KAM/NOS Query
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>The following comes from Glenn VE3GCI...  I know zilch about KAMs, but I'm
>sure there must be some KAM gurus on the net.  I don't think there's a way
>of putting a TNC into KISS mode using the autoexec.net file, but there are
>probably some little programs around that can do the job from a batch
>file.  All replies will be relayed to Glenn...
>
>--- begin included message ---
>
>           I am presently installing NOS to run packet. My TNC is a KAM
>and I have questions on how to set KISS mode on when I load NOS. I don't
>want to perm it in so at present I load PCPLUS, set INtface to KISS,
>CONMode to TR, and RESET. Then I get out of PCPLUS, load NET and away I
>go. I think there must be a way to insert a statement in the AUTOEXEC.NOS
>file to do this but if there is I cannot figure it out. If there is a way
>will it also work for a PK232?.

Actually, there is a way to do this within the autoexec.net file (depending on
which version you're using).  One way is to use the 'comm' command and just
send the 'kiss on\r' string to the PK-232.  I don't believe vanilla NOS has
the 'comm' command but other variants do (the PA0GRI variant does).

Another way to do this is to use a dialer file and start a dialer session to
your comm port right after you 'attach' it.  Your autoexec.net would have
something like 'dialer ax0 filename' where filename is a file that contains
something like:
send "kiss on\r"

The dialer command is part of vanilla NOS.

If you are running a PK-232 with some really old PROMs, you'll have to send it
a bunch of other commands in addition to the 'kiss on' command.  Your manual
should mention what these commands are if necessary.
--
Antonio Querubin
[e-mail] / [e-mail] / [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 24 Oct 91 11:30:28 GMT
From: news.hawaii.edu!mpg.phys.hawaii.edu![e-mail]
Subject: KAM/NOS Query
To: [e-mail]

I forgot to mention, there is one advantage that the use of the dialer feature
in NOS has over the 'comm' command (or simply copying a file to the com port in
your nos.bat file).  The dialer file can contain 'wait' commands which will
force the dialer to wait for a response stri.  You can put a 'wait' command
between each 'send' so that the TNC doesn't choke on a whole bunch of commands
at once.  This is not important if your PK-232 has the most recent KISS
implementation in it, but it is important for older PK-232's and other brands
of TNCs.
--
Antonio Querubin
[e-mail] / [e-mail] / [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 25 Oct 91 00:45:19 GMT
From: elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!munnari.oz.au!manuel!csc.canberra.edu.au!echo![e-mail]
Subject: KISS and other FAQ's
To: [e-mail]

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Dave Horsfall) writes:

>I realise this is probably a FAQ, but, where can I find out the KISS
>protocol specification?  I'm looking to do a CP/M implementation.
>I gather it's a framing protocol, much like SLIP, but the bits I looked
>at certainly aren't SLIP...

KISS is a subset of SLIP. (or the otherway around, anyway it's close :-)
I haven't seen it written down as such however the earlier releases of
KA9Q included source for kiss for several TNCs.

The protocol is rather simple.  Two defined characters. (I've forgotten
the values).  One is a flag and the other is an escape.  The Flag just delimits
frames while the escape is used whenever an escape or a flag is included
in the frame.

>And on the subject of FAQ's, is "HOST" mode any relation to KISS?  I have

No.  "HOST" is a a TNC<->BBS protocol where the TNC still does all of the
AX25 work.  It just provides multiple connects and an easier interface to
program for and interpret using code than the TAPR interface which was
designed for humans.

>Final FAQ: are the specs for NET/ROM, ROSE, and other level 3 protocols
>available?  I'm the sort of weirdo who prefers to "write his own".

I haven't seen one.  I'd also be interested in seeing it.  You might
place a post in rec.radio.amateur.packet asking about it.  Otherwise
you can grab the source to KA9Q and try and work it out! :-(

Carl.

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl Makin  VK1KCM  Canberra Australia  | <Disclaimer> I know NOTHING!
Internet:      [e-mail] |
Packet Radio:  [e-mail] | "There is no substitute for
Fidonet:       3:620/243.14             |  incomprehensible good luck!"
Telecom:    (+61 6) W289-8443 H296-2423 |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: (null)
From: (null)
The current versions of PA0GRI NOS have the following function:

    comm <interface> <text_string>

which may do what you want.

My solution to the problem is to put the commands needed to enter
and exit KISS mode into two files, enkiss.txt and dekiss.txt. Then
in my nos.bat batchfile I do:

copy enkiss.txt com1:
nos_blah.exe
copy dekiss.txt com1:

I can't remember what dekiss has in it. Probably FEND 255 FEND.
You can't create this file with a normal editor!

Hope this helps!


       Warren Toomey VK1XWT, cold but happy
      Deep in the bowels of ADFA Comp Science.
  `POSIX Job Control?! POXY job control more like!'

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #274
******************************
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 91 04:30:03 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #275
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Sat, 26 Oct 91       Volume 91 : Issue 275

Today's Topics:
         9600 baud packet (and KAM)? (2 msgs)
              Heathkit HK-21 TNC
             KISS and other FAQ's

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 25 Oct 91 07:28:30 GMT
From: apple!xanadu![e-mail]
Subject: 9600 baud packet (and KAM)?
To: [e-mail]

While we're on it: Is it possible to the get the Kantronics
KAM together with something like a g3ruh modem.  I think
not, but I thought I'd ask.  I expect that if it was possible,
it would require some hacking on the firmware, as I beleive the
KAM does HDLC in software.

jeff

------------------------------

Date: 25 Oct 91 07:28:30 GMT
From: apple!xanadu![e-mail]
Subject: 9600 baud packet (and KAM)?
To: [e-mail]

While we're on it: Is it possible to the get the Kantronics
KAM together with something like a g3ruh modem.  I think
not, but I thought I'd ask.  I expect that if it was possible,
it would require some hacking on the firmware, as I beleive the
KAM does HDLC in software.

jeff

------------------------------

Date: 25 Oct 91 23:14:15 GMT
From: ogicse!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu![e-mail]
Subject: Heathkit HK-21 TNC
To: [e-mail]

Need infor regarding location of HK-21's.  Thanx and 73...
--
Robert S. Radvanovsky       InterNet: [e-mail]
kempyuter kensulting         AMPRNet: [e-mail]
4 Haverhill Road            AX.25Net: kc6onl@kc6nzn.#soca.ca.us
Laguna Niguel, CA  92677

------------------------------

Date: 25 Oct 91 19:13:21 GMT
From: qualcom.qualcomm.com!qualcom.qualcomm.com![e-mail]
Subject: KISS and other FAQ's
To: [e-mail]

You can get the KISS TNC spec by anonymous FTP from ucsd.edu, file
/hamradio/ka9q/arrl/1987/kisstnc.ms.Z. This is a compressed NROFF
source file for the paper K3MC and I wrote for the 1987 ARRL CNC.

Phil

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #275
******************************
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 91 04:30:06 PST
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #276
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Sun, 27 Oct 91       Volume 91 : Issue 276

Today's Topics:
               9600 baud packet
               boards for satellite TNC
         Digital Packet Repeater Info Wanted
                KAM/NOS Query
             KISS and other FAQ's
              pacsat broadcast protocol
           WANTED: Motorola Trunking radio

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 26 Oct 91 23:01:25 GMT
From: ncrcom!ncrlnk!ciss!lawday![e-mail]
Subject: 9600 baud packet
To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Phil Graham) writes:

>Is there anyone out there who has experiance with the Kantronics Data
>Engine / 9600 baud modem and there 440 radio?

I've posted several articles about this in the past, so forgive any repetition.
Here in Dayton we're building a metro area network using the Kantronics D4-10
radios.

They are designed to run at 19.2KB, but will work at 9600 (or any slower
speed, for that matter).  As radios, they are quite good.  Rated power is
10 watts; with a stiff power supply we see about 12.  The receiver is quite
good, and <much> better than the one in the DVR2-2 2M 9600 baud radio, which
has a front end like a barn door.  It's two channels, crystal controlled.

The radios switch extremely quickly, and we've run a pair of them with a
TXDelay as short as 5 milliseconds (not a typo...).  They also have a very
fast squelch, and it seems to be quite reliable and usable as a DCD signal.
I really only have two nits with the design:  1)  there's no S-meter or
access to a signal strength level without doing your own mod, and 2) there's
a TX LED on the front panel, but nothing to indicate open squelch (the radio
doesn't have a built-in speaker)..

The radio has one unique feature.  As well as the standard analog level
inputs, it also has a digital, TTL-level port, with pins for TXD, RXD, DCD,
and PTT.  The TXD signal will directly modulate the radio +/- 10KHz, and
the RXD is derived from an on-board data slicer.  In other words, you could
shove raw TTL level data into one of these radios, and recover it at the
other end, with no intermediate modulating equipment at all.  The D4-10
could properly be called an RF modem.e

Regarding modems, you have two choices:  the Kantronics DE9K6/19K2 modem
is designed to go in the DataEngine (though it could be used elsewhere) and
works at either 9600 or 19.2.  It's essentially the G3RUH design, with all
the analog stuff bypassed for 19.2.

Or, you could do as we're experimenting and run without a "modem" at all;
we're using various means to generate packets, but instead of sending them
through a modem, we're shipping them directly into the TTL level data port
of the radio.  It sounds screwy, but it seems to work, and it saves the ~100
cost of the modem.

We currently have ten D4s in hand, and are building a duplex digital repeater
out of two of them, and using others for links from Dayton to the rest of
the world.  We hope to have at least five real users (all running tcp/ip)
and a couple of servers (local BBS stations, etc.) on line by spring.
--
John R. Ackermann, Jr.        Law Department, NCR Corporation, Dayton, Ohio
[phone]                [e-mail]
Packet Radio: ag9v@n8acv      tcp/ip: [e-mail] [44.70.12.34]

------------------------------

Date: 24 Oct 91 11:51:16 GMT
From: news-server.csri.toronto.edu!torsqnt!geac!maccs!nimios![e-mail]
Subject: boards for satellite TNC
To: [e-mail]

Are pacsat modems and TNC's available on a single board? Where
can I buy kits and or complted boards?

------------------------------

Date: 26 Oct 91 18:22:17 GMT
From: swrinde!mips!think.com!spool.mu.edu!tulane!ukma!memstvx1![e-mail]
Subject: Digital Packet Repeater Info Wanted
To: [e-mail]

Hi,
    The Delta Amateur Radio Club here in Memphis is planning to put up a
Digital Packet Repeater. If anybody has any Info On Digital Repeater's or has
built one Please send me a e-mail message. I would like to talk to you further
about it.

Thanks in Advance.

Suresh N9GSA


___  ___  _____  ___ ___ Suresh Kagoo  EE Dept , Memphis State University
|  \/  | / ____\ | | | | Engineering 215    | Domain: [e-mail]
| \  / | \____ \ | |_| | Memphis, TN  38152 | Bitnet: KAGOOS@MEMSTVX1
|_|\/|_| \_____/ \_____/ Ph: [phone] | AX.25 : N9GSA @AI5R.TN.USA

------------------------------

Date: 25 Oct 91 11:23:13 GMT
From: mcsun!uknet!ukc!mucs!mccuts![e-mail]
Subject: KAM/NOS Query
To: [e-mail]

On the Amiga version of NOS I have a small ARexx exec which sends the commands
to the serial port and then starts AmigaNOS.  I suppose that you could
accomplish the same thing by copying a text file (with the commands in it) to
the COM port from a .BAT file.

--
Email: [e-mail]          Packet: [e-mail]7NWP.#16.GBR.EU (QTHR)
              NRS Central Administrator,
      MCC Network Unit, The University, Oxford Road, Manchester,  M13-9PL
          Phone: [phone], FAX: [phone]

------------------------------

Date: 23 Oct 91 11:34:04 GMT
From: ub!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!spool.mu.edu!munnari.oz.au!metro!ipso![e-mail]
Subject: KISS and other FAQ's
To: [e-mail]

I realise this is probably a FAQ, but, where can I find out the KISS
protocol specification?  I'm looking to do a CP/M implementation.
I gather it's a framing protocol, much like SLIP, but the bits I looked
at certainly aren't SLIP...

And on the subject of FAQ's, is "HOST" mode any relation to KISS?  I have
vague recollections of watching with amusement, with the aid of a serial
analyser (sadly no longer available), of the SV7AIZ BBS software belting
the heck out of the TNC...  I think it used HOST mode - it certainly was
going "hammer and tongs" anyway, and needed a special EPROM for it.  That
was long ago (we run W0RLI now) so my memory is hazy.

Final FAQ: are the specs for NET/ROM, ROSE, and other level 3 protocols
available?  I'm the sort of weirdo who prefers to "write his own".

--
Dave Horsfall (VK2KFU)         VK2KFU @ VK2RWI.NSW.AUS.OC
[e-mail]                  ...munnari!ips.OZ.AU!dave

------------------------------

Date: 27 Oct 91 02:14:58 GMT
From: aramis.rutgers.edu!remus.rutgers.edu![e-mail]
Subject: pacsat broadcast protocol
To: [e-mail]

Does anyone know where to find programs to use the new pacsat
broadcast protocol? Software for the Mac would be most useful but
anyting for PC compatibles would do as well. Anonymous FTP sources
favored, but at this point any source would be helpful.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| Tim Hayes   N2KBG              | No beast so fierce but knows some touch  |
| Rutgers College of Engineering | of pity, but I know none and therefore   |
| [e-mail]       | am no beast.                             |
| [phone]                  |                                          |
_____________________________________________________________________________
|         I don't have opinions- all comments above are THE truth.          |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

Date: 26 Oct 91 07:09:13 GMT
From: UB.com!daver!hico2!ka2qhd![e-mail]
Subject: WANTED: Motorola Trunking radio
To: [e-mail]

WANTED!! Used Motorola 800 Mhz trunking radio.

      Also looking for Motorola Mobile Data Terminal.


Please email me at: [e-mail]

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #276
******************************
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 91 04:30:05 PST
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #277
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Mon, 28 Oct 91       Volume 91 : Issue 277

Today's Topics:
          1.2 GHz radios for packet (2 msgs)
              pacsat broadcast protocol

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 27 Oct 91 20:53:23 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: 1.2 GHz radios for packet
To: [e-mail]

Greetings All,
  I have been wondering what radio is used by the European hams on 1296 for
their 9600 baud packet. Is this radio available in the US? What is the cost?
Is it a Kit or a plug-n-play. Is there a similar radio in Japan that can be
imported to the US market. I have seen it mentioned on a few occasions that
9600 is popular for the end-user in Japan. What radio do they use? Do they
have a 1.2GHz 9600 or higher radio in use there?
  I would like to get in touch with one or more of the European or Japanese Hams
that have access to information on 1.2GHz radios. I try to read this newsgroup
daily or you can respond to me directly at any of the following addresses.
Internet: [e-mail]
Packet:   [e-mail]
Snail Mail: Larry Springsteen
        5469 Wadsworth Ave.
        El Paso, Texas  79924
Ma Bell: [phone]
  If there are enough responses I will summarize and repost to this newsgroup.
73, Larry    WB8LBZ

-------

------------------------------

Date: 28 Oct 91 21:18:27 GMT
From: pa.dec.com!jrdzzz.jrd.dec.com!jrdzzz![e-mail]
Subject: 1.2 GHz radios for packet
To: [e-mail]

I myself does not run packet radio at home, but I run an internet for
the packet radio enthusiasts in Japan, so let me answer.

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Larry L. Springstee) writes:

>   I have seen it mentioned on a few occasions that
>   9600 is popular for the end-user in Japan. What radio do they use? Do they
>   have a 1.2GHz 9600 or higher radio in use there?

Packet Radio User's Group (PRUG) members use V.29 FAX modems with
conventional 430/1200 (or 432/1296) FM transceivers. Some of our
members say the modem in 7200bps works much better than in 9600bps.
They use YAMAHA's chip. Some other people are using G3RUH modems.

PRUG has started an advanced development project for 64kbps TNC and
radio. A very simple TNC using HD64180 (a Hitachi's Z80 + SIO chip)
has already been ready by Masaaki Yonezawa, JE1WAZ. We're still
struggling on the radio part.

I am sorry but I don't know so much about technical details, but I can
forward your inquiries to the appropriate person. Please do not use my
Digital mailbox - send to [e-mail].

73,
-- Kenji Rikitake, JJ1BDX, PRUGNET [133.168] Zone/Technical Contact
--
Kenji Rikitake // [e-mail] // [e-mail]
VMS/Japanese Development engineer, DEC Japan R&D Center // [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 27 Oct 91 15:38:48 GMT
From: sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr![e-mail]
Subject: pacsat broadcast protocol
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Tim Hayes) writes:
>
>Does anyone know where to find programs to use the new pacsat
>broadcast protocol? Software for the Mac would be most useful but
>anyting for PC compatibles would do as well. Anonymous FTP sources
>favored, but at this point any source would be helpful.

Tim,
    I have several programs for the MAC to use the packsat
broadcast protocal as well as other mac programs for amateur use.
The BBS can be reached at 614-895-2553.

--
Gary W. Sanders (gws@n8emr or ...!osu-cis!n8emr!gws), 72277,1325
N8EMR @ N8JVY (ip addr) 44.70.0.1 [Ohio AMPR address coordinator]
HAM BBS 614-895-2553 (1200/2400/V.32/PEP)
Voice: 614-895-2552 (eves/weekends)

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #277
******************************
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 91 04:30:08 PST
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #278
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Tue, 29 Oct 91       Volume 91 : Issue 278

Today's Topics:
                (none)
            10-meter packet operations???
         Digital Packet Repeater Info Wanted (4 msgs)

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 28 Oct 91 14:14:08 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: (none)
To: [e-mail]

<Date: 25 Oct 91 07:28:30 GMT
<From: apple!xanadu![e-mail]
<Subject: 9600 baud packet (and KAM)?
<To: [e-mail]

<While we're on it: Is it possible to the get the Kantronics
<KAM together with something like a g3ruh modem.  I think
<not, but I thought I'd ask.  I expect that if it was possible,
<it would require some hacking on the firmware, as I beleive the
<KAM does HDLC in software.

There is a problem running the KAM at anything more than 2400 bauds--
the CPU is too slow. I inquired whether I could runn a HAPN 4800 baud
modem in my KAM and the response from Kantronics was as stated--too slow.


Nice idea though.


Dave

[e-mail]
[e-mail] [44.56.4.88]
[e-mail]
[phone] x3060

------------------------------

Date: 28 Oct 91 20:33:25 GMT
From: sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!kilroy![e-mail]
Subject: 10-meter packet operations???
To: [e-mail]

Hi folks;

I finally picked up a Uniden 2600 this past weekend.  I would like to start
playing 10-meter packet, but so far am aware only of the 300-baud LSB packet
operations down at around 28.100MHz.  I thought that there was also FM 1200
baud packet lurking about in the 29.500 - 29.700 MHz spectrum.  Have I been
misled?

Signed,

Confused

(aka jon - NW6H)

------------------------------

Date: 28 Oct 91 14:48:24 GMT
From: usc!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!stanford.edu!eos!aio![e-mail]
Subject: Digital Packet Repeater Info Wanted
To: [e-mail]

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

>Hi,
>       The Delta Amateur Radio Club here in Memphis is planning to put up a
>Digital Packet Repeater. If anybody has any Info On Digital Repeater's or has
>built one Please send me a e-mail message. I would like to talk to you further
>about it.

With any packet TNC (at least all of those I have seen) connnected to a suitable FM tranceiver set on the approprieat packet frequency, set the TNC to
"digipeat enabled".  And there you have a Digital Packet Repeater.  (I keep my
personal packet station in this mode at all times.  My coverage is so poor that
I don't think that anyone uses it, but it is there if anyone wants to!

Sorry for the post instead of E-Masil, but maybe some day we will get E-Mail a

>Thanks in Advance.

>Suresh N9GSk that anybody uses it, but it is there if anyone wants to!

Sorry for the pose instead of E-Mail.  May someday we will get E-Mail access.


>___  ___  _____  ___ ___ Suresh Kagoo  EE Dept , Memphis State University
>|  \/  | / ____\ | | | | Engineering 215    | Domain: [e-mail]
>| \  / | \____ \ | |_| | Memphis, TN  38152 | Bitnet: KAGOOS@MEMSTVX1
>|_|\/|_| \_____/ \_____/ Ph: [phone] | AX.25 : N9GSA @AI5R.TN.USA


--
Jack R. Sargeant, Sr. W0RIJ             These opinions are mine and only mine
Computer Systems Specialist             (unless you wnat to claim them).
Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Co.

------------------------------

Date: 28 Oct 91 18:06:08 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Digital Packet Repeater Info Wanted
To: [e-mail]

In article <jrsargeant.688661304@lescsse> [e-mail] (JACK SARGEANT) writes:
>With any packet TNC (at least all of those I have seen) connnected to a suitable FM tranceiver set on the approprieat packet frequency, set the TNC to
>"digipeat enabled".  And there you have a Digital Packet Repeater.

Oh my, that's wrong.  Very wrong.  What is described is a digipeater.
It's a store-and-forward packet regenerator; it's better than nothing
but has no place in a modern network.  Digipeaters do NOT have the
ability to retry lost packets, and greatly reduce the bandwidth of any
channel they're used on.

A digital repeater is more correctly described as being much like a
voice repeater:  it simultaneously receives and transmits on
different frequencies and relays the digital signal through in real
time.  Some regenerate the FSK or AFSK signal and some regenerate the
bits.  Experiments have been conducted with packet regeneration and
busy-tones.

The key difference is that packet communications over a digital repeater
completely avoid the "hidden-terminal" problem, whereas the use of a
digipeater practically guarantees you will have it.

I think that in most cases, a person proposing to install a digipeater
should prove to himself that his installation will improve the
network instead of degrade it.  I suspect most people would be hard
pressed to show that.
    - Brian

------------------------------

Date: 28 Oct 91 17:51:25 GMT
From: elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!orchard.la.locus.com!devnet.la.locus.com![e-mail]
Subject: Digital Packet Repeater Info Wanted
To: [e-mail]

In article <jrsargeant.688661304@lescsse> [e-mail] (JACK SARGEANT) writes:
>In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
>>Hi,
>>      The Delta Amateur Radio Club here in Memphis is planning to put up a
>>Digital Packet Repeater. If anybody has any Info On Digital Repeater's or has
>>built one Please send me a e-mail message. I would like to talk to you further
>>about it.
>
>With any packet TNC (at least all of those I have seen) connnected to a suitable FM tranceiver set on the approprieat packet frequency, set the TNC to
>"digipeat enabled".  And there you have a Digital Packet Repeater.  (I keep my
>personal packet station in this mode at all times.  My coverage is so poor that
>I don't think that anyone uses it, but it is there if anyone wants to!
>
>Sorry for the post instead of E-Masil, but maybe some day we will get E-Mail a
>
>>Thanks in Advance.
>
>>Suresh N9GSk that anybody uses it, but it is there if anyone wants to!
>
>Sorry for the pose instead of E-Mail.  May someday we will get E-Mail access.


Do the packet community a *real* favor; don't put up another digipeater.
Go the extra mile and put a real duplex data repeater. These work much,
much better, though may still need some linking to the standard digipeater
networks. The linking can be done at high speed, on UHF or so.

  A duplex packet repeater is a standard voice repeater with a modem
connected to regenerate the incoming data to the output, cleaning up the
signal and preventing irritating voice use of the data machine.

  If a sufficient number of people write me a private note, I'll post
details why duplex data repeaters are *so* much better than ugly digipeater
networks. (Note: even the AX.25 specification contains a paragraph
mentioning that digipeaters should be phased out).

--
 * Dana H. Myers KK6JQ          | Views expressed here are      *
 * [phone]               | mine and do not necessarily   *
 * [e-mail]               | reflect those of my employer  *

------------------------------

Date: 28 Oct 91 20:46:20 GMT
From: ulowell!tegra![e-mail]
Subject: Digital Packet Repeater Info Wanted
To: [e-mail]

In article <jrsargeant.688661304@lescsse> [e-mail] (JACK SARGEANT) writes:

   In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

   >Hi,
   >    The Delta Amateur Radio Club here in Memphis is planning to put up a
   >Digital Packet Repeater. If anybody has any Info On Digital Repeater's or has
   >built one Please send me a e-mail message. I would like to talk to you further
   >about it.

   With any packet TNC (at least all of those I have seen) connnected to a suitable FM tranceiver set on the approprieat packet frequency, set the TNC to
   "digipeat enabled".  And there you have a Digital Packet Repeater.  (I keep my
   personal packet station in this mode at all times.  My coverage is so poor that
   I don't think that anyone uses it, but it is there if anyone wants to!


I think the original request was looking for a regenerative or
pass-thru full duplex repeater and not a store and forward station.
A digital repeater will recieve on one frequency and simultaneously
transmit the bits on another.  A voice repeater can pass the FM audio
for 1200 or 4800 baud.  For higher rates you can take the output of
the digital demodulator and feed it back to the modulator,
"regenerating" the data.

In addition to greater throughput a real repeater provides a
peer-to-peer network capability and eliminates the dreaded "Hidden
Transmitter Syndrome" completely.


jv


"Even Marilyn Monroe was a man, but, this, tends to get overlooked,
 by, our mother fixated overweight sexist media" -- Robin Hitchcock
 _____
|     | Johnathan Vail | [e-mail]
|Tegra|  Member: LPF   | N1DXG@448.625-(WorldNet)
 -----  [phone] | [e-mail]

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #278
******************************
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 91 04:30:04 PST
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #279
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Wed, 30 Oct 91       Volume 91 : Issue 279

Today's Topics:
            Duplex Data Repeaters
               Looking for FLEXNET info
               Packet Repeater

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 29 Oct 91 20:53:45 GMT
From: elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!orchard.la.locus.com!devnet.la.locus.com![e-mail]
Subject: Duplex Data Repeaters
To: [e-mail]

Duplex Data Repeaters

  In contrast to store-and-forward packet repeaters (digipeaters), duplex
data repeaters are much like a standard duplex voice repeater. In fact,
when operating an audio modulated packet mode, such as 1200 and 2400
baud, a standard voice machine may be used a data repeater. For non-audio
modulation, such as K9NG/G3RUN 4800/9600/19.2k+ baud operation, a voice
repeater will generally not provide sufficient bandwidth and introduce
too much distortion for use.

   A duplex data repeater consists of a receiver, a demodulator, a
modulator, a transmitter, a duplexor (if the repeater uses a single
antenna) and a control deck. The receiver, transmitter, duplexor and
control deck are generall arranged in an identical fashion to a voice
repeater. One may wish to replace the Carrier Operated Relay in a voice
duplex repeater with a Coherent Data Carrier Detect Operated Relay.
The demodulator demodulates the output of the receiver, and feeds the data
to the modulator, which is connected the transmitter.  This is often called
a "data regenerator". Besides preventing voice use of the data repeater, the
data regenerator "cleans" the signal and improves the overall data
reliability between packet stations.

  Store-and-forward digipeaters are generally limited to single data
modulation and speed combinations. Duplex repeaters are generally also
subject to this limitation; however, since the duplex repeater never decodes
the data frames, it is possible to build a multiple format machine. Brian
Kantor ([e-mail]) described such a machine in a posting to rec.radio.
amateur.packet some time ago.

  What are the advantages of a duplex machine? For those that actually
understand the hidden and exposed transmitter syndromes, it is clear that
a properly constructed duplex machine eliminates this problem entirely. The
remaining issue is that of "jump-on", where a number of waiting nodes jump
onto a frequency all at once after the channel becomes clear. Proper use
of p-persistance can greatly improve this. A paper presented by Scott Avent,
KK6HS at the 7th ARRL Computer Networking Conference, describes the
significant throughput enhancement obtained using a duplex machine.
Overall, I'll summarize in saying that a duplex repeater provides better
throughput and real-time response to the users than two seperate simplex
channels under the same loading conditions.

 The duplex machine also allows one to distribute the network resources;
since every node using the duplex machine has equal access to every other
node, it is not necessary to locate a BBS or off-frequency gateway at the
mountain top. Instead, a BBS or node linking to other frequencies can be
located wherever it is convenient. A model which has great appeal is that
of duplex repeaters linked to each other using high speed point-to-point
links.

  The drawbacks of a duplex data repeater are the same as for a voice
repeater; the cost of the duplexor can be steep ($800 or so for a new
one), acquiring a good mountain top site can be problematic, and
getting a coordinated frequency pair from the local friendly frequency
coordination council can make you feel violated and dirty. Considerations
in selecting repeater hardware include excellent IMD immunity in the receiver,
high data demodulator performance, no real-time delay is audio from receiver
to transmitter, and fast transmitter key-up time.


--
 * Dana H. Myers KK6JQ          | Views expressed here are      *
 * [phone]               | mine and do not necessarily   *
 * [e-mail]               | reflect those of my employer  *

------------------------------

Date: 30 Oct 91 06:07:48 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Looking for FLEXNET info
To: [e-mail]

Not too long ago someone asked for info on where to obtain the FLEXNET
boards. I havn't seen any responses back so I would like to ask the
same info.
     Maybe a posting on some of the commands and what they do (I can't
read the languages on them when I connect via gateway stations), and
where boards, schematics and other information on them may be obtained.
     There is some interest in trying them out here but we need to get
hold of a few of them first.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|      Michigan's  TCP/IP LAN       | AX25 BBS  : N8FOW@WB8H.#SEMI.MI.USA.NA |
|          147.56 MHz               | AMPRnet   : [e-mail]     |
|         Ron Atkinson              | Internet  : [e-mail]          |
|            N8FOW                  | BITNET    : au351%po.cwru.edu@cunyvm   |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 30 Oct 91 06:03:51 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Packet Repeater
To: [e-mail]

For those who don't know how a full-duplex packet repeater would work,
here is a basic description.
     You can modify and existing voice repeater by putting a modem for
the data rate desired on the receiver. Then run the output of the
demodulator side into the modulator side. Feed the output of the modulator
into the transmitter. The modem will act as a data regenerator. Usually
2 modems will be used, one for receive and one for transmit.
     The PTT line could be controlled by putting a state machine DCD on
the demodulator output so that the repeater would only get keyed up on
a real data transmission at the data rate of the modem.

     I believe in the 10th ARRL Computer Networking Conference papers that
there are articles about full-duplex repeaters for packet. Some of the
other CNC's should also have info on them and how they solve a lot of
hidden transmitter problems.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|      Michigan's  TCP/IP LAN       | AX25 BBS  : N8FOW@WB8H.#SEMI.MI.USA.NA |
|          147.56 MHz               | AMPRnet   : [e-mail]     |
|         Ron Atkinson              | Internet  : [e-mail]          |
|            N8FOW                  | BITNET    : au351%po.cwru.edu@cunyvm   |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 29 Oct 91 18:03:40 GMT
From: qualcom.qualcomm.com!qualcom.qualcomm.com![e-mail]
To: [e-mail]

References <[e-mail]>, <jrsargeant.688661304@lescsse>, <[e-mail]>
Reply-To : [e-mail]
Subject : Re: Digital Packet Repeater Info Wanted

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Dana H. Myers) writes:
|>   If a sufficient number of people write me a private note, I'll post
|> details why duplex data repeaters are *so* much better than ugly digipeater
|> networks. (Note: even the AX.25 specification contains a paragraph
|> mentioning that digipeaters should be phased out).

Although this is certainly true for digipeaters as they are currently
implemented in amateur radio, I do not believe that the concept of
single-frequency store-and-forward relaying is *inherently* flawed.

In particular, if automatic transmitter power control, collision
avoidance heuristics and clever routing algorithms were used,
a single-frequency network could be quite effective. Depending on
traffic patterns and network topology, it might even be more
spectrally efficient than the full duplex "bent pipe" repeater.

See my paper "Spectral Efficiency Considerations for Amateur Packet
Radio" in the most recent ARRL Computer Networking Conference for a
more detailed discussion. If you don't have a copy of the proceedings, you
can get a [tn]roff -ms source file by anonymous ftp from ucsd.edu, file
/hamradio/ka9q/arrl/1991/effic.ms.

Phil

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #279
******************************
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 91 04:30:06 PST
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #280
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Thu, 31 Oct 91       Volume 91 : Issue 280

Today's Topics:
            Duplex Data Repeaters

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 31 Oct 91 05:44:23 GMT
From: swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!clarkson!logic![e-mail]
Subject: Duplex Data Repeaters
To: [e-mail]

A repeater is far better for packet than operating one or more shared
access simplex channels as Hidden Transmitter Syndrome is no longer
an issue with the repeater.  However, a decent alternative method is
to have all stations set up with dedicated links to each other in some
fashion such that no dependancies exist on nodes that get shut down.
This is expensive compared to running a repeater but the performance
and upgradability advantages are enormous.
  My preference for network design would have all stations which operate
as network points or as servers tied together via dedicated links and then
have access for transient stations via repeaters on the cheapest band
available in each area.
  Tadd
--
[ KA2DEW @ KA2JXI.#NNY.NY.USA.NA                - Tadd Torborg             ]
[ [e-mail]                   - 20 Clinton St            ]
[ NEDA (North East Digital Association) Editor  - Potsdam, NY 13676        ]
[ Clarkson University                           - 315-268-6288             ]

------------------------------

Date: 30 Oct 91 18:03:57 GMT
From: ubc-cs!alberta!aunro!ve6mgs![e-mail]
To: [e-mail]

References <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>
Subject : Re: Digital Packet Repeater Info Wanted

[e-mail] writes:
>In particular, if automatic transmitter power control, collision
>avoidance heuristics and clever routing algorithms were used,

[e-mail] (Dana H. Myers) replies:
>  For the record, I agree entirely with Phil on this issue. However,
>the problem is that we have installed base of AX.25 TNCs and users
>of significant size.

Old excuse, decision was made up here to move over to 70cm, set up a RAW IP
backbone with as many features as we could put in place. Reading RFCs and
any collision detection info that we can (Thanks to Lyndon/VE6BBM).
If you build it, they will come ...

It would help if we had a Internet noid being the president of the local A.R.C.

> Since the kind of revolutionary
>technology Phil mentions is not common or particularly easy to build

The confuser should look after most of it, the hardware is the least of
the worries. Sending out RTS and CTS packets require NO new hardware and
can make a big difference (theoretically) on hidden transmitter and
collision detection.

>(keep in mind many packeteers have trouble building the cable from the
>radio to the TNC, how can they modify a modern FM radio for power
>control?), it would currently be an attractive technology for linking

Forget power control, the cellular industry has it and it is never used
(at least in our area). If we get rid of the guys running 250W ERP into
a beam and all drop down to some reasonable power like 2-5W then we
wouldn't have many of the problems we have today. Of course, I am the
worse culprit with a 4dB Antenna and a 25W rig ... but I need it to get
out :-). The only advantage I see in power control is that the community
can shut the 250ERP stations down, rather than leaving it up to the
individual.

 *** Soapbox on ***
I have been fighting for the locals to start putting in that squelch busy
signal to the TNC so that they don't step on Intermod (they can't hear the
reply) or weak stations that may break the squelch but are not full quieting
enough to get the state machine DCD going. This alone will solve 90% of our
hidden transmitter problem, I know my station doesn't step on anybody
anymore for this simple hardware mod. However, NO ONE (except my close
friends and enemies) is biting since this mode is too complicated. The
only fix here is to do some software work and get something like the CTS
packet handshaking for channel usage.
 *** Soapbox off ***

Ciao, 73 de VE6MGS/Mark -sk-

------------------------------

Date: 30 Oct 91 14:47:10 GMT
From: elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!orchard.la.locus.com!devnet.la.locus.com![e-mail]
To: [e-mail]

References <jrsargeant.688661304@lescsse>, <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>$
Subject : Re: Digital Packet Repeater Info Wanted

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Dana H. Myers) writes:
>|>   If a sufficient number of people write me a private note, I'll post
>|> details why duplex data repeaters are *so* much better than ugly digipeater
>|> networks. (Note: even the AX.25 specification contains a paragraph
>|> mentioning that digipeaters should be phased out).
>
>Although this is certainly true for digipeaters as they are currently
>implemented in amateur radio, I do not believe that the concept of
>single-frequency store-and-forward relaying is *inherently* flawed.
>
>In particular, if automatic transmitter power control, collision
>avoidance heuristics and clever routing algorithms were used,
>a single-frequency network could be quite effective. Depending on
>traffic patterns and network topology, it might even be more
>spectrally efficient than the full duplex "bent pipe" repeater.

  For the record, I agree entirely with Phil on this issue. However,
the problem is that we have installed base of AX.25 TNCs and users
of significant size. Naturally, there is no single correct way to
connect packet users together. Since the kind of revolutionary
technology Phil mentions is not common or particularly easy to build
(keep in mind many packeteers have trouble building the cable from the
radio to the TNC, how can they modify a modern FM radio for power
control?), it would currently be an attractive technology for linking
one duplex machine to another. Building a network which maximizes the
usefulness per dollar spent requires an open mind and using the
appropriate technology.

--
 * Dana H. Myers KK6JQ          | Views expressed here are      *
 * [phone]               | mine and do not necessarily   *
 * [e-mail]               | reflect those of my employer  *

------------------------------

Date: 30 Oct 91 21:09:26 GMT
From: ogicse!emory!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!orchard.la.locus.com!devnet.la.locus.com![e-mail]
To: [e-mail]

References <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>
~
Subject : Re: Digital Packet Repeater Info Wanted

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mark G. Salyzyn VE6MGS) writes:

>> Since the kind of revolutionary
>>technology Phil mentions is not common or particularly easy to build
>
>The confuser should look after most of it, the hardware is the least of
>the worries. Sending out RTS and CTS packets require NO new hardware and
>can make a big difference (theoretically) on hidden transmitter and
>collision detection.

  Err, the vast majority of packeteers use TNCs with EPROMs inside. Sure,
MACA (not the name of the bird) is a software change, but many people
don't want to take the cover off of the TNC. This isn't a reason not
to a evolve, it is only a (non-technical) hurdle that needs to be
overcome.
--
 * Dana H. Myers KK6JQ          | Views expressed here are      *
 * [phone]               | mine and do not necessarily   *
 * [e-mail]               | reflect those of my employer  *

------------------------------

Date: 30 Oct 91 19:37:53 GMT
From: elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!samsung!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!emory!wa4mei!ke4zv![e-mail]
To: [e-mail]

References <jrsargeant.688661304@lescsse>, <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>
B
Reply-To : [e-mail] (Gary Coffman)
Subject : Re: Digital Packet Repeater Info Wanted

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
>Although this is certainly true for digipeaters as they are currently
>implemented in amateur radio, I do not believe that the concept of
>single-frequency store-and-forward relaying is *inherently* flawed.
>
>In particular, if automatic transmitter power control, collision
>avoidance heuristics and clever routing algorithms were used,
>a single-frequency network could be quite effective. Depending on
>traffic patterns and network topology, it might even be more
>spectrally efficient than the full duplex "bent pipe" repeater.

While many of the problems caused by single frequency store and forward
can be *mitigated* by clever protocols and careful physical network
layout, practical limitations make the "bent pipe" superior in many
cases.

Some of the problems with single frequency store and forward include
reduced thruput and increased system complexity. Store and forward
effectively cuts the channel baudrate in half for each hop even if there
are no collisions from hidden terminals. With bent pipes the effective
baud rate is not halved by repeating, hidden terminals are removed, and
system complexity is centralized in one communal resource.

In a service that has more unused bandwidth than money, use of bent
pipes is the most practical way to increase thruput. Careful physical
or spectral separation of data channels can increase total system
thruput, but the individuals paying the bills are interested mainly
in seeing *their* thruput improve. The bent pipe generally causes
a doubling or better of individual station thruput at the cost of
relatively small increases in complexity on the hill.

When we start talking about very large networks that can't be serviced
by single repeaters, then things change. Contention free, full duplex,
point to point trunks become necessary to maximize thruput. Store and
forward switching and routing become essential, and very high speed
channels become desirable.

Half duplex cellular channels are less desirable than full duplex cellular
channels because feedback is near instantaneous and hopping or power
control can become near continously adaptive. Use of half duplex store
and forward contention channels should be avoided wherever feasible.

All IMHO :-)

Gary KE4ZV

Gary KE4ZV

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End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #280
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