World of Ham Radio 1994 January/AMSOFT_1994.iso/packet/docs/pd199107.doc

Text File | 1993-12-31 | 253.7 KB | 6,622 lines

Tue,  2 Jul 91 04:30:06 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #166
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Tue,  2 Jul 91       Volume 91 : Issue 166

Today's Topics:
           Help setting up TNC-1 and FT-470
          Highest baud rate available through a TNC?
          INFO wanted on 9600 baud + packet
    Looking for info on W2XO's Internet to packet gateway.
             Source for KISS-56?
         temporary address and forced routing

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 1 Jul 91 18:46:34 GMT
From: acd4![e-mail]
Subject: Help setting up TNC-1 and FT-470
To: [e-mail]

Howdy.  I have a TAPR TNC-1 (beta version) that I got at a hamfest three or
four years ago.  I would like to hook it up to the Yaesu FT-470 HT that I
have borrowed from my school's radio club.

Here's the problem.  I have misplaced my TNC book.  The school has one.
Will the pinouts for the radio hookup be the same for the TNC-1 (as given
in the school's manuals) and for my beta version?  Is there something
special I have to do to get these two things working together?  I'm of the
opinion that the FT-470 has only a 2-wire mic jack including the PTT,
whereas the TNC-1 has two wires for PTT and two for the mic.

Another thing.  I assume the PROMs in this thing are, shall we say, a bit
outdated.  Where can I go to get newer firmware for my TNC?

Please e-mail responses to me.  I've had my license for 5 or 6 years, and
I'm just getting started in all this stuff, and I'd like to get going with
packet ASAP.  I'm going to try to ftp some of the packet stuff from
ftp.cs.buffalo.edu... is there anywhere else I can look?

Thanks in advance, and sorry for asking so many questions. :-)

--
73 de Mike Allard  KA9VDC    "6 Cokes a Day Keeps the Drowsies Away!" -me
Terre Haute, Indiana
uunet:     acd4!mja          "Mmmm... I *love* the smell of fusing
Internet:  [e-mail]           engine parts!"  -R. Matt Adams


--
++ Mike Allard, Applied Computing Devices Inc.
++ [e-mail]   or   acd4![e-mail]
++ 6 Cokes a Day Keeps the Drowsies Away!
++ "Mmmm... I just *love* the smell of fusing engine parts!" -RMA

------------------------------

Date: 1 Jul 91 15:48:30 GMT
From: cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!hellgate.utah.edu!dog.ee.lbl.gov!pasteur!zion.berkeley.edu![e-mail]
Subject: Highest baud rate available through a TNC?
To: [e-mail]

I'm just getting interested in packet.  I was hoping someone could
tell me what are the highest data rate TNC's available.  I'd like to
run at 56Kbuad for some local applications.  Eventually I plan to
build a custom 3Mbaud ASIC for full-motion compressed color video.
Any pointers to good resource texts would also be appreciated.

Thanks very much!

Bill Baringer           Computer Vision Lab     U.C. Berkeley

------------------------------

Date: 30 Jun 91 14:26:24 GMT
From: deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!sousa!sndpit.enet.dec.com![e-mail]
Subject: INFO wanted on 9600 baud + packet
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Phil Graham) writes...
>We have just completed a group buy of Yeasu FT-912R (1.2 GHz) and we would
>like to put them on high speed packet.  So I have the following questions:
>       - What modems are available for 9600 baud packet?

K9NG was one of the original 9600 baud modems, but the G3RUH is an
improvement on it.  You can get K9NG kits from TAPR for $35, or G3RUH
modems built from PacComm (and others) for around $100.

>       - What do we have to do to the radio to make it work at 9600 baud
>               (specific instructions would be great! :-)

Well, high speed modems tend to require crystal-based (varactor modulated)
rigs, because the frequecny response has to go down to almost DC, and most
synthesized rigs won't do that.  Why did you buy the radios before you knew
how you were going to use them?

Willie Smith
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
{Usenet!Backbone}!decwrl!sndpit.enet.dec.com!smith

------------------------------

Date: 1 Jul 91 13:11:01 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Looking for info on W2XO's Internet to packet gateway.
To: [e-mail]

From: [e-mail] (Bernard A Doehner)
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: W2XO, what is your internet address?
To: ritvax..IN@"[e-mail]".WPI.EDU
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 91 20:18:14 EDT
In-Reply-To: <[e-mail]>; from "ritvax::IN@"[e-mail]" at Jun 28, 91 9:30 am

Hello W2XO,

I just saw your message about the internet to packet gateway that you provide.
I'd like to know more about your system. Could you please
be so kind as to send me your personal internet address so that
we can correspond directly and I don't fill up everyone's mailbox?

Thanks,

73's

Bernie NU1S

------------------------------

Date: 2 Jul 91 05:39:26 GMT
From: swrinde!mips!samsung!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!rusmv1!delos!nasobem![e-mail]
Subject: Source for KISS-56?
To: [e-mail]

The subject says it all, is the source code of the KISS implementation
for the TNC2, which is capable of managing 56kbps available somewhere?
FTP would be fine.

Thanks!

Jan
--
    Jan Schiefer, DL5UE, Degerlocherstr. 5, 7000 Stuttgart 70, Germany
               [e-mail]
   "The bus transceiver controls, DALI and DALO, are used to control the
      bus transceivers."   - AM7990 LANCE technical reference manual

------------------------------

Date: 1 Jul 91 20:56:49 GMT
From: gatech!prism!wayward![e-mail]
Subject: temporary address and forced routing
To: [e-mail]

I saw a post from someone else who needed a temporary address away
from home, but haven't seen any further discussion on it.  Is there
a way?

Also I have been having trouble getting mail between Atlanta and
New Orleans.  A few messages have made it, but have very different
routings (and delivery times).  Is there a way to force or suggest
a particular routing?

Thanks.
    harold

FORBES, HAROLD C.   N5JCM
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp: ...!{allegra,amd,hplabs,seismo,ut-ngp}!gatech!cc!harold
ARPA: [e-mail]



FORBES, HAROLD C.   N5JCM
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp: ...!{allegra,amd,hplabs,seismo,ut-ngp}!gatech!cc!harold
ARPA: [e-mail]

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest
******************************
Date: Wed,  3 Jul 91 04:30:02 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #167
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Wed,  3 Jul 91       Volume 91 : Issue 167

Today's Topics:
              8530 PC-card need
              G8BPQ software data format
            Packet and tcp/ip in Hilo, HI?
      Proposal for Packet BBS data transmission changes

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 2 Jul 91 18:21:55 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: 8530 PC-card need
To: [e-mail]

If someone knows where to find the famous sccprint.arc send the
mail to the digest to know it all.
I we found it a can send it to any one with e-mail.
I will get it with bitftp and I can forward it to anyone.
We have here a lot of 8530 on a ACE card (4 of them) with a 80186
cpu and 2*62256 ram chips . If anyone has packet-tcpip(ftp...)
software for this card pls help me.
73 George SV1BDS Athens

------------------------------

Date: 2 Jul 91 20:48:08 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: G8BPQ software data format
To: [e-mail]

Anyone know what the format of the RAW AX25 frame is?  This frame is
delivered by the BPQHOST mode function 11 and consists of 5 bytes of
header and the AX.25 frame itself.  I know the AX25 stuff but the
header info is needed.  The first byte seems to be hex DF and the last
two bytes are the length.  Somewhere in the middle two bytes is the
port number.  Could it be multi-dropped KISS format?

Roy -- AA4RE -- ENGE at ALMADEN

------------------------------

Date: 1 Jul 91 21:40:42 GMT
From: usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!grian!puffin!wd6ehr.ampr.org![e-mail]
Subject: Packet and tcp/ip in Hilo, HI?
To: [e-mail]

Does anyone know what packet and tcp/ip activity there may be around the
Hilo area of the island of Hawaii?  I plan on bringing a 25 watt 2 meter
tcp/ip station when we go see the eclipse.

73, Mike Curtis wd6ehr.ampr.org![e-mail]
Packet wd6ehr@n6yn.#socal.ca.usa
7921 Wilkinson Avenue
North Hollywood CA 91605-2210

------------------------------

Date: 2 Jul 91 18:27:45 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Proposal for Packet BBS data transmission changes
To: [e-mail]

One of the problem in doing Packet BBS to BBS compression is that the
current implementations are not standards.  In looking over both the
FBBS and G1NNA compression schemes, I didn't like a lot of what I saw.
Unfortunately, by the time I got a copy, both schemes were up and
running.

In an attempt to converge to a single solution we can all work with
and to prepare for new capabilites not already addressed by current
BBS protocols, I offer my own proposal.  Comments are welcome.

This is a proposal for better BBS to BBS transmissions.  Capability
will be indicated by SID letter "D".  The purposes of this proposal
are:

   - BBS-to-BBS authentication
   - Transparent transmission of data between BBS
   - Compression using standard routines.


1) The following control codes are defined:

     01 -- AUTS -- Authenticator set
     02 -- SBUN -- Start block uncompressed
     03 -- SBHC -- Start block compressed with LZH -- clear tables
     04 -- SBHN -- Start block compressed with LZH -- no clear tables
     10 -- DLE  -- Data link escape
     11 -- AUTR -- Authenticator response
     12 -- ETBC -- End block.  Two bytes follow with CRC-16
     13 -- ETBA -- End block.  Two bytes follow with encrypted CRC-16
           as a block authenticator.
     1D -- EOF  -- End a message or file (CTL-Z)
     1E -- FLU  -- Flush message
     1F -- NAK  -- Resend block

2) Data stream will have two states: non-transparent (outside a block)
and transparent (inside a block).

3) Blocks will be started by the SBxx codes and ended by DLE ETxx.
Inside a block, the need to transmit a DLE in the data will cause
the sequence DLE DLE.  Any control codes transmitted inside the
data block will not be interpreted.  DLE followed by a byte greater
than 31 (Hex 01F) will be tolerated and left in the data.  DLE
followed by a byte of 31 (Hex 01F) or less and not an ETxx character
is an error.

4) Authenticator exchange:

      AUTS will be followed by three 16 bit unsigned numbers.
      The three numbers will be encrypted using DES.
      Example:

    (AUTS) n1 n2 n3

      Response will be AUTR followed by a 16 bit numbers.
      The numbers will be encrypted using DES.

    (AUTR) n4

      n4 = (n1 * n2) modulo 65536

5) Block Authenticator

      The block authenticator will be the block CRC XOR with n3
      and then DES encrypted.


Typical BBS exchange.  Things in () are either control characters
or a 16 bit unsigned number (e.g. (-n1-))

    (connection occurs)
BBS1 = [4RE-2.12-DMR$] (CR) > (CR)
BBS2 = [4RE-2.12-DMR$] (AUTS) (-n1-) (-n2-) (-n3-) (CR)
BBS1 = (AUTR) (-n4-) (AUTS) (-n1-) (-n2-) (-n3-) > (CR)
BBS2 = (AUTR) (-n4-)
       SB (SPACE) TEST (SPACE) @ (SPACE) USA (SPACE) $1234_AA4RE (CR)
BBS1 = OK (CR)
BBS2 = (SBHN) compressed message goes here (DLE) (ETBA) (-x1-) (EOF) (CR)
BBS1 = > (CR)

Note:  EOF (Control-Z) must be outside the block.  This allows the
distant station to validate the authenticator/CRC and drop the
connection, NAK, or FLU as desired.

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest
******************************
Date: Thu,  4 Jul 91 04:30:02 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #168
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Thu,  4 Jul 91       Volume 91 : Issue 168

Today's Topics:
             AX.25 protocol in host mode
      BBS Header compression - Thoughts sought. (3 msgs)
             MFJ 1270 Schematic and info
             NET/Mac(52).sit.hqx
            NOS and OS/2 (4 msgs)
          TCP/IP group mailing list -- how?

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 4 Jul 91 07:10:38 GMT
From: elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!lll-winken!iggy.GW.Vitalink.COM!widener!dsinc!wells![e-mail]
Subject: AX.25 protocol in host mode
To: [e-mail]

  PACKET INFORMATION NEEDED.

  Does anyone have the details on AX.25 protocol in a file?  If so,
could you please send it to '[e-mail]'.

  I am in the process of writing some software for the PK-232 (actually,
any TNC) in HOST MODE (RawHDLC ON possibly).

--
=========================================================================
Edward E. Wells Jr., N3IAS, President               Voice: (215)-943-6061
Wells Computer Systems Corp., Box 343, Levittown, Pa. 19058
{dsinc,francis,hotps,houxl,lgnp1,mdi386,pebco}!wells!edw

------------------------------

Date: 3 Jul 91 05:03:13 GMT
From: munnari.oz.au!yoyo.aarnet.edu.au!frodo.cc.flinders.edu.au!adelaide.edu.au![e-mail]
Subject: BBS Header compression - Thoughts sought.
To: [e-mail]

I would like to ask the opinion of you all on the idea of condensing
the header information on Packet BBS mail. Recently I started writting
a fairly simple program to parse the incomming headers on BBS traffic,
grab the date, time, callsign, Hierarchial Address and Message number
information and then regenerate the header with just that relevent information.

For example say a header arrived like,

R:910203/1223z @:AB1CDE.#ZA.AUS.OC AusNet><Mars Gateway BBS #:1234 Z:0341

my program would then reduce that to,

R:910203/1223z 1234@AB1CDE.#ZA.AUS.OC
or
R:910203/1223z @:AB1CDE.#ZA.AUS.OC #:1234

depending on what you prefer.

What I would like to hear is what do people think of such a "Daemon" running
on Key BBS's like relevent Overseas Gateways etc to help reduce the size
of traffic to be passed, (especially over some of the rather poor HF
circiuts that are used).

I would like to implement the program on a couple of BBS's in Australia
(they have shown interest in the idea) but would like to hear what overseas
SysOps think of such a Daemon running that would in many cases half the
length of the headers.

Constructive comments most welcome. Flames > /dev/null.

Cheers de Grant VK5ZWI - Adelaide, South Australia
--
Grant Willis (VK5ZWI), Elec. Engineering Student,  Adelaide Uni, South AUSTRALIA
AARNet/Internet1: [e-mail]
ACSnet/Internet2: [e-mail]                    My views are my own,
AmPRNET: VK5ZWI@VK5TTY.#SA.AUS.OC                           not the Uni's!

------------------------------

Date: 4 Jul 91 00:58:29 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: BBS Header compression - Thoughts sought.
To: [e-mail]

> Grant, VK5ZWI writes:
> I would like to ask the opinion of you all on the idea of condensing
> the header information on Packet BBS mail. Recently I started writting
> etc...

I have no objection to the program.  As long as the header meets
minimum requirements, it will not affect my BBS program.  I would
recommend you leave the originating BBS header alone though.

It is unfortunate that you have to write it though.  The current
version of AA4RE BBS has two headers, one for messages originated at
that BBS and one for messaged that are just relayed.  The relay header
was supposed to be short (like you proposed).  Not everybody is
following this convention and none of the other authors have picked up
on this as far as I know.

Examining headers also shows many with the Z:xxxxxx for zip code.
Since we all route via hierarchical address these days and not
by zip code why waste the bytes?

Roy, AA4RE

------------------------------

Date: 4 Jul 91 07:50:16 GMT
From: mcsun!ukc!axion!kitkat![e-mail]
Subject: BBS Header compression - Thoughts sought.
To: [e-mail]



------------------------------

Date: 3 Jul 91 14:04:47 GMT
From: wang!tegra![e-mail]
Subject: MFJ 1270 Schematic and info
To: [e-mail]

I need to calibrate my transmit tones and need at least a schematic
and maybe the procedure.

Any help via email or fax would be appreciated.  My fax number is:
[phone] (put my name on the cover).

Thanks, jv


"History is made at night.  Character is what you are in the dark!"
    - Dr. Lizardo, "Buckaroo Banzai"
 _____
|     | Johnathan Vail | [e-mail]
|Tegra| [phone] | N1DXG@448.625-(WorldNet)
 -----  [e-mail] {...sun!sunne ..uunet}!tegra!vail

------------------------------

Date: 3 Jul 91 14:05:36 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: NET/Mac(52).sit.hqx
To: [e-mail]


Hello all,

NET/Mac 2.0 version pa2aga(52) has been uploaded to ucsd.edu.

The filename is:    hamradio/ka9q/incoming/NETMac52.sit.hqx

73 de Adam PA2AGA ([e-mail])

------------------------------

Date: 3 Jul 91 16:28:16 GMT
From: sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu![e-mail]
Subject: NOS and OS/2
To: [e-mail]

Hi, I just purchased OS/2 1.3 (and patiently waiting for 2.0) and I was
wondering if anyone has ported NOS to OS/2. If not, does anyone know from whom
or where I can get some sort of C compiler for OS/2?  Thanks in advance.

--
*************************************************************************
* 73 de Jay, WT9S     Internet: [e-mail]                *
*                     Packet:   [e-mail]                    *
*************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: 3 Jul 91 21:20:50 GMT
From: swrinde!mips!cs.uoregon.edu!milton!serval!yoda.eecs.wsu.edu![e-mail]
Subject: NOS and OS/2
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jay Freeman) writes:
>Hi, I just purchased OS/2 1.3 (and patiently waiting for 2.0) and I was
>wondering if anyone has ported NOS to OS/2. If not, does anyone know from whom
>or where I can get some sort of C compiler for OS/2?  Thanks in advance.
>
IBM and Microsoft both sell C compilers for OS/2 in addition to others.

Chris


--
Chris Kinsman                                   KINSMAN@WSUVM1
Washington State University                     22487863@WSUVM1
Computing Service Center                        [e-mail]
Computing Resources Laboratory                  [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 4 Jul 91 01:00:43 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: NOS and OS/2
To: [e-mail]

Why not use an existing TCP/IP package and extend it for packet?  I
have been threatening to write an AX.25 for IBM's TCP/IP on OS2 for
months but haven't gotten the time.

Roy, AA4RE

------------------------------

Date: 4 Jul 91 00:17:59 GMT
From: uvaarpa!murdoch![e-mail]
Subject: NOS and OS/2
To: [e-mail]

>> Hi, I just purchased OS/2 1.3 (and patiently waiting for 2.0) and I
>> was wondering if anyone has ported NOS to OS/2. If not, does anyone
>> know from whom or where I can get some sort of C compiler for OS/2?

>IBM and Microsoft both sell C compilers for OS/2 in addition to others.

The best place to ask this sort of question is over in
comp.os.os2.programmer so I've directed followups there.

Virtually all C++ compilers can also compile C, so also look at
who sells C++ compilers for OS/2.

  IBM and Borland have an agreement whereby as of OS/2 release 2.0,
Borland C++ will be available for OS/2 2.0 and IBM will also resell
BC++ as IBM C++ for OS/2.  BC++ for OS/2 will probably be the
preferred compiler once it and OS/2 2.0 are both released.


  The best C compiler for OS/2 right now is probably Zortech C++.
They have a solid (if a bit pricey) product and do support it via
Internet email among other places.

  The current Microsoft C compilers have earned a fairly bad
reputation amongst developers and one might want to consider
alternatives before going with them.  I think that the current IBM C
compiler might well be a repackaged version of the MS C compiler,
so be careful.

------------------------------

Date: 3 Jul 91 17:12:43 GMT
From: photon![e-mail]
Subject: TCP/IP group mailing list -- how?
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Ron Murray) writes:
|>
|>    This probably qualifies as a FAQ, but how do I get on the tcp/ip group
|> mailing list?
|>
|> Thanks,
|> ......Ron

email to [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: (null)
From: (null)
R:910203/1223z [e-mail]
R:910203/1223z 1234@:AB1CDE.etc
R:910203/1223z @AB1CDE.etc #:1234
R:910203/1223z @:AB1CDE.etc #:1234
R:910203/1223z @AB1CDE.etc

Why people want to keep changing the format I'll never know. It would be
nice if everyone could standardize on one format, but then again it would be
nice to see a flying pig as well!

Brian Lloyd
Maintenance and Support,                # e-mail : [e-mail]
Software Technology Division,           # Phone  : [phone]
SSTF Building, BTRL, Martlesham Heath,  # Fax    : [phone]
Ipswich, Suffolk. UK. IP5 7RE           # Packet : G1NNA@GB7NNA._3111.GBR.EU

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #168
******************************
Date: Fri,  5 Jul 91 04:30:03 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #169
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Fri,  5 Jul 91       Volume 91 : Issue 169

Today's Topics:
              *8530 PC-card need
            archie reply: prog sccprin ...
          BBS Header compression - Thoughts sought.
               HAMs and WAR in Slovenia
           How do I get started in packet?
     SCCPRIN5.ARC & PE1CHL - How to find Software on NET

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 4 Jul 91 11:49:47 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: *8530 PC-card need
To: [e-mail]

Hi all,

George SV1BDS writes:

> If someone knows where to find the famous sccprint.arc send the
> mail to the digest to know it all.

sccprin5.arc is on col.hp.com (15.255.240.16) and is part of the
file packet/pe1chl/pc2.lzh. However there is no etching pattern included
only circuit schematics and a component placementdrawing. Boards are to
got from PA0HZP ([e-mail]). Hope that will help you.

                  73 Guido Kueppers (DF2KW)

e-mail to: [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Jul 91 20:58:52 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: archie reply: prog sccprin ...
To: <[e-mail]>

Mail-only users may access anonymous ftp by mail
through an ftp-mail server. Send the word 'help'
in a message to

        [e-mail]

for information on how to use it.

NOTE: The the server at the address

        [e-mail]

is no longer available for use by non-BITNET sites

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
prog sccprin

Search request for 'sccprin'


Host thumper.bellcore.com   (128.96.41.1)
Last updated 05:02 22 Jun 1991

    Location: /pub/ka9q/incoming/pe1chl
      FILE      rw-rw-rw-    159020  Jun 21 18:22   sccprin5.arc

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

prog pe1chl

Search request for 'pe1chl'


Host hpcsos.col.hp.com   (15.255.240.16)
Last updated 06:09  7 Jun 1991

    Location: /packet
      DIRECTORY rwxr-xr-x      1024  Oct 30  1990   pe1chl

Host thumper.bellcore.com   (128.96.41.1)
Last updated 05:02 22 Jun 1991

    Location: /pub/ka9q/incoming
      DIRECTORY rwxrwxrwx       512  Jun 21 18:23   pe1chl

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Giovanni Moretti, Computer Science Dept, Massey University, Palmerston North,
Mail: Internet: [e-mail], Pkt-Radio: ZL2BOI@ZL2TCA | New Zealand
Ph 64 63 69099 x8694,FAX [phone] | QUITTERS NEVER WIN, WINNERS NEVER QUIT
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 5 Jul 91 05:58:51 GMT
From: munnari.oz.au!metro!ipso![e-mail]
Subject: BBS Header compression - Thoughts sought.
To: [e-mail]

Anything that takes out the self-serving advertising material is all for
the better.  The headers should contain no more than the essential info,
with possibly a brief QTH to assist in forwarding by hand.

--
Dave Horsfall (VK2KFU)         VK2KFU @ VK2RWI.NSW.AUS.OC
[e-mail]                  ...munnari!ips.OZ.AU!dave

------------------------------

Date: 4 Jul 91 15:08:00 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: HAMs and WAR in Slovenia
To: [e-mail]

Hello friends !

I still do not beleive what happened here, it is so awfull.
Anyhow, it is maybe of interest to see how HAMs responded to
emergency.

When unexpected attack of YU Army to Slovenija happened, the first HAMs
reaction was: be QRV, stay tuned. There was no need to help with
proffesional communications, all worked OK. We only blocked
military repeaters and simplex channells on 2m band;
forunately most of MODS to
expand RX/TX range of japanese RIGs were available on BBSes.

Later on we were requested not to make QRM on military QRGs, because
we blocked channells so effectively, that YU3 intelligence could
not get any information from military communications. there is not yet
enough 6m equipment here, to effectively block military there, but
we were of some help to YU3 police. (YU got 50 MHz band few weeks ago).

Most of HAM communications( beside those helping actively defense operations)
are on helping press (some telephone lines are broken) and red cross. A lot
of personal request were handled by HAMs also (like: My parents are there and
 there, we can not get them by telephone, are they OK ? ).

YU3 HAMs can be found on 2m and 70cm FM, also there is a net on 3.605 SSB.

Packet:
As my role was in packet, I can tell the story from first hand.
First action was to check network. Everthing worked, so I send few bulletins
with emergency instructions to BBSes. Packet stations on R TV stations was
activated, with printer connected to C-64. I got few tlf numbers, like
red-cross, direct line to news service etc. Quickly, first news reports
were comming from area telephone cut. Also, i helped forward a QTC to
DL radio, when international telephone lines were overloaded.

When army started bombing of TV and communication centers, where most of
packet nodes were, we prepared secondary links. Few HAMs left packet stations
QRV, to be used as digipeaters. Several nodes were attacked:
4N3B on mt Boc, 4N3P on mt Pohorje, several times 4N3H on mt Kum,
and 4N3L on mt Krvavec. 4n3H antennas were destroyed, thus 23cm backbone
network was cut into two pieces. But, 2m links were ready - and YU3 packet
network is fully operative. No harm was done to 2m and 70cm FM
repeaters, so 4n3H is the only HAM installation destroyed.

We get also some help from outside YU3 - First of all, I asked everybody
to stop BBS forward and other DXing over YU3 - network is now free for
emergency traffic. Also, neighbour HAMs are ready to help us with
secondary links on 2m, if our current nodes are destroyed. We have a
backup ready for any node. Also, they are in touch with red cross and others,
if there is any need.

So far, HAMs were again playing our role in defence of our country.
I hope is needed no more, but we are ready.

Packet node 4N3H is probably first HAM packet node to be destroyed
in military attack. It had 4 antennas on 23cm to 38400 bd YT3MV 23cm
station (4N3H-12), 2m port on 144.600 (4n3h), converse node 4N3H-3 and
we were fixing also 70cm wide bandwith 19200 bd manchester user access node
on 70cm.

So much about HAMs in war, I hope we would be able to make full report
when war is over.

   Best 73, peace to everybody, iztok YU3FK

------------------------------

Date: 3 Jul 91 16:50:06 GMT
From: pyramid!athertn![e-mail]
Subject: How do I get started in packet?
To: [e-mail]

The Northern California Packet Assn (NCPA) has published a book
containing all of the series of articles by WB9LOZ that was circulated
on the BBS system.  Larry (LOZ) rewrote and updated sections for the
book.  While pointed towards northern Calif amateurs, the book contains
all the info needed to get started in packet radio.

NCPA
6680B Alhabra Ave Suite 111
Martinez, CA 94553

73 de KA6ETB

------------------------------

Date: 4 Jul 91 23:55:18 GMT
From: waikato.ac.nz!comp.vuw.ac.nz!cc-server4.massey.ac.nz![e-mail]
Subject: SCCPRIN5.ARC & PE1CHL - How to find Software on NET
To: [e-mail]

HERE'S how you find software on the internet - in this case SCCPRIN5.ARC
and the PE1CHL driver for the SCC.

However in the spirit of "Teach a man to fish, don't just give him one"
here's how you can find out :-)

Here's a list I got from archie the internet software lookup service at
[e-mail] (to find out more info send a mail message
containing the word HELP on a line by itself.


SCCPRIN5.ARC contains the schematic for a PC card with two 8530 SCCs.
It can be used with NOS to give AX25 and IP capability.

PE1CHL wrote a generic device driver for the SCC - that's why I searched
for this.

============================================================================
Below is the result of sending the lines:

prog sccprin
prog pe1chl
quit

in an email message to [e-mail]

ARCHIE is a GREAT SERVICE - my thanks to those who run it.

Cheers
Giovanni - ZL2BOI


As I remember, when I logged into THUMPER... (see below) it referred me to
the site 128.54.16.1 where all the KA9Q stuff had been moved to.  I did get
it so it can't be too hard to find :-)

I added the odd dashed line below :-)

-------------------------- Letter Separator -----------------------------

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #169
******************************
Date: Sat,  6 Jul 91 04:30:02 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #170
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Sat,  6 Jul 91       Volume 91 : Issue 170

Today's Topics:
                 BAYCOM v.1.4
         JULY 14: SUSSEX COUNTY (NJ) HAMFEST

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 5 Jul 91 13:05:00 GMT
From: mcsun!cernvax![e-mail]
Subject: BAYCOM v.1.4
To: [e-mail]

Are anybody in possession of the German manual for
the Baycom packet radio programme for the PC?
I have downloaded Baycom v. 1.2 from wuarchive.wustl.edu,
but I find the English translation of the original
manual to be almost a complete loss.  It is extremely
difficult to understand all the details.  It appears to
have been translated by somebody that neither speaks
English nor German.
If anybody have got the latest version (1.4) I should
like very much to receive of a copy.

73 de Frode, LA2RL/HB9CHL

**************************************************************************
*       Frode Weierud           Phone   :       [phone]            *
*       CERN, SL                Fax     :       41 22 7823676            *
*       CH-1211 Geneva  23      E-mail  :       [e-mail]    *
*       Switzerland                        or   [e-mail]   *
**************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: 5 Jul 91 17:32:11 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: JULY 14: SUSSEX COUNTY (NJ) HAMFEST
To: [e-mail]

*************************************************************************
* JULY 14             ANNOUNCING THE 13th ANNUAL        >  TALK IN:     *
*              SUSSEX COUNTY AMATEUR RADIO CLUB HAMFEST > 147.30/90     *
* JULY 14                 AUGUSTA, NEW JERSEY           > 222.90/224.50 *
*                 BUYERS: $4,  Spouse  &  Kids  FREE!   > 146.52 Simplx *
* JULY 14         Best Value in the NY/NJ/CT/PA area.   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*
*                 DATE:   JULY 14, 1991   (Sunday)                      *
* JULY 14         PLACE:  SUSSEX COUNTY FAIR GROUNDS                    *
*                 AUGUSTA, NEW JERSEY. (Plains Rd off RT 206)           *
*   A SHORT DRIVE FROM THE NEW YORK METROPOLITAN AREA IN THE BEAUTIFUL  *
*            AND  SCENIC  SKYLANDS  OF  NORTH  WEST  NEW  JERSEY        *
*     WIN AT THE DOOR: 3RD PRIZE; $100 BILL; 2ND PRIZE: ICOM 2SAT HT    *
*            !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!         *
* JULY 14    >>>   1ST PRIZE:    ICOM 229A 2m TRANSCEIVER   <<<         *
*            !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!         *
*               A full day of FUN - rain or shine - For ALL.            *
* Vendors: Large indoor selling area in Fairgrounds Exhibition Bldg.    *
* $8 at door per space. Acres of Unlimited Tailgate Space, $6 at door.  *
* Food & Refreshments. Comodious Facilities. Register in advance & save.*
* Contact:  K2OX, 185 Weldon Rd, Lk Hopatcong, NJ 07849.  201-663-0677  *
*************************************************************************

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #170
******************************
Date: Sun,  7 Jul 91 04:30:04 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #171
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Sun,  7 Jul 91       Volume 91 : Issue 171

Today's Topics:
       Need program that can talk to two TNCs at the same time!

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 7 Jul 91 05:30:16 GMT
From: infopiz!lupine!hansen![e-mail]
Subject: Need program that can talk to two TNCs at the same time!
To: [e-mail]

Hello out there!  Is there a program that can talk to two TNCs or to two
COM ports at the same time?  I have a 80286 PC that I would like to monitor
two different TNCs at the same time (split screen would be great with
one COM port on top and the other on the bottom).  I know I can get DESQVIEW
to do this (right?), but it seems to me that a single program should be
able to do it.  I guess I could write my own :-(

Thanks in advance!
Phil

DE KJ6NN

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #171
******************************
Date: Mon,  8 Jul 91 04:30:03 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #172
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Mon,  8 Jul 91       Volume 91 : Issue 172

Today's Topics:
          how many IP addresses are needed?
       Need program that can talk to two TNCs at the same time!
                packet future
      Proposal for Packet BBS data transmission changes
    request for telecomm program that supports 2 ports...

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 7 Jul 91 21:38:00 GMT
From: sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!uwm.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu![e-mail]
Subject: how many IP addresses are needed?
To: [e-mail]

Suppose I am launching a TCP/IP based packet balloon flight, and plan to
chase it mobile.  While mobile I want to check into the BBS I operate at
my home as well as check telemetry on my voice repeater via packet, and
of course contact the balloon, which is crossing through a couple states.

This is, of course, theoretical at the moment but could become reality
for someone VERY SOON.  It seems that at least 4 distinct IP address would
be needed for this (to distinguish the different ways actual packet routing
will happen).  Would any additional ones be needed for the mobiles just
because of moving?  How do you reconfiguring it for a high flying ( >30km )
balloon?  What about 2 balloons?
--
 /***************************************************************************\
/ Phil Howard -- KA9WGN -- [e-mail]   |  Guns don't aim guns at  \
\ Lietuva laisva -- Brivu Latviju -- Eesti vabaks  |  people; CRIMINALS do!!  /
 \***************************************************************************/

------------------------------

Date: 8 Jul 91 04:02:16 GMT
From: sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!kksys!edgar!brainiac!moron![e-mail]
Subject: Need program that can talk to two TNCs at the same time!
To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Phil Graham) writes:

> Hello out there!  Is there a program that can talk to two TNCs or to two
> COM ports at the same time?  I have a 80286 PC that I would like to monitor
> two different TNCs at the same time (split screen would be great with
> one COM port on top and the other on the bottom).  I know I can get DESQVIEW
> to do this (right?), but it seems to me that a single program should be
> able to do it.  I guess I could write my own :-(
>
> Thanks in advance!
> Phil
>
> DE KJ6NN

Phil,

Have you considered trying Phil Karn, KA9Q's, NOS TCP/IP code?  It may be
more than you want or even need, but it will certainly handle multiple
TNC's, and/or other communication devices...

73's


     73's
     Chris Cox  W0/G4JEC

     UUCP     [e-mail]           5620 36th Avenue South
     AMPRNet  [e-mail]            Minneapolis, MN  55417

     Work:    [phone] x 211                Home: [phone]
11                Home: [phone]

------------------------------

Date: 6 Jul 91 19:34:31 GMT
From: swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!convex!mic!letni!rwsys!kf5iw!k5qwb![e-mail]
Subject: packet future
To: [e-mail]

Todays thoughts:

It seems that the .ampr.org domain needs a GEO satellite with a port
in each metropolitan area. I'm not sure exactly how some of the
internet routing works but it seems that this would allow the common
connection needed to establish one group. Naturally the link would have
to be fast and well co-ordinated, but that seems within ham capability.
Any chance of a GEO AMSAT? Could it be developed on a commercial bird?

Some local packet<>internet connections would be possible if the
content rules were changed. Has there been any petition to request
relaxing of the content rules for short-range high-speed packet where
the occasional content problem would have no real impact? Seems there
should be a case to be made here.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------

73,              [e-mail]
Lyn Kennedy      K5QWB @ N5LDD.#NTX.TX.US.NA
         P.O. Box 5133, Ovilla, TX, USA 75154

-------------- "We have met the enemy and he is us."  Pogo --------------

------------------------------

Date: 8 Jul 91 00:50:43 GMT
From: sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!kksys!edgar!brainiac![e-mail]
Subject: Proposal for Packet BBS data transmission changes
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Roy Engehausen) writes:
>One of the problem in doing Packet BBS to BBS compression is that the
>current implementations are not standards.  In looking over both the
>FBBS and G1NNA compression schemes, I didn't like a lot of what I saw.
>Unfortunately, by the time I got a copy, both schemes were up and
>running.
>

[Roy's proposal deleted]


The proposal looks great.  The only thing I wanted to mention was that
(I think) compression of individual messages is a waste.  Compression on
small files isn't that effective.  All it would do is beat the hell out
of the machines doing the transfer.  If compression is used, a batching
scheme should be used.  Wait for X amount of bytes to accumulate, then
batch up the whole thing, compress it, and forward it.

It's going to happen, so I better get used to it, but I want to state in
public that I think authentication sucks.  One thing that still thrills me
to this day is that you can log into any packet bbs and do anything you
want without being 'authorized'.  I TOTALLY HATE phone bbs's that impose
restrictions until someone calls you.  Authentication during forwarding of
messages won't have an impact on me (not too much), but PLEASE don't start
making normal access to bbs's 'secure'. I think that steps to do this may
be taken in the near future, and it will totally wreck my day if it happens.
--
    Jeffrey R. Comstock -- HOME [e-mail] -- WORK [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 7 Jul 91 15:46:00 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: request for telecomm program that supports 2 ports...
To: [e-mail]

Date sent:  7-JUL-1991 10:42:24

I have been using Enable for the last couple of years to do something like
what was requested in a 7 July post.  I keep the internal modem (on a
Zenith Supersport 286) connected to one port, while at the same time I can
be connected to a packet tnc via another port.  Enable allows this through
opening a window.  All one has to do to go from on to another window is ALT
up arrow, then SHIFT F9...

I find it very useful and feel that 2 tnc's would be supported..


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Darrell G. Leavitt
SUNY Empire State College (ESC)   ESC VAX: DLEAVITT
403 Sibley Hall                   SUNYNET: SESCVA::DLEAVITT
Plattsburgh, New York, 12901      INTERNET: [e-mail]
PHONE    : [phone]         AMATEUR
BitNet   : LEAVITDG@SNYPLAVA      PACKET:  N2IXL @ KD2AJ.NY.USA.NA
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #172
******************************
Date: Tue,  9 Jul 91 04:30:04 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #173
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Tue,  9 Jul 91       Volume 91 : Issue 173

Today's Topics:
     10th ARRL Computer Networking Conference, Sept. 27-29, 1991
          how many IP addresses are needed?

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 8 Jul 91 06:38:42 GMT
From: pacbell.com!lll-winken!well![e-mail]
Subject: 10th ARRL Computer Networking Conference, Sept. 27-29, 1991
To: [e-mail]

------ this version is not suitable for transmission by amateur packet ------
------ email [e-mail] for a sanitized version which should ------
------ be suitable for transmission via amateur packet                 ------

10th ARRL Amateur Radio
Computer Networking Conference
27-29 September 1991
Radisson Airport Hotel
San Jose, CA

The Northern California Packet Association (NCPA) is hosting this year's ARRL
Computer Networking Conference and invites you to attend.  Glenn Tenney,
AA6ER, is the local conference chairperson.

Hams from around the world will be presenting papers on what they're working on
in packet radio.  The presentations  and papers might cover any subject from
satellites to spread spectrum, from protocols to hardware, or any other topic related
to how hams are, or will be networking

In addition to the usual presentation of papers all day Saturday, this year's
conference will be surrounded by other intersting and informative activities.  See
the agenda inside to see what we have planned for Friday and Sunday.  You won't
want to miss any of this.  Send in the attached registration right now, and contact
the ARRL for an author's packet.

How to Submit Papers

The deadline for receipt of camera-ready papers is 12 August.  If you're going to
submit a paper, you should contact Lori Weinberg at ARRL, 225 Main Street,
Newington, CT 06111, telephone [phone], fax at 203-665-7531.  Lori is handling
the arrangements for the proceedings.

How to Register for the Conference

Please use the attached conference pre-registration form to register for the tutorials,
main conference, and the dinners.  We are working with a VERY tight budget and
would appreciate receiving your registration and check at the earliest possible date.
We have already had to make quite a commitment to the hotel, and catering is
asking for a commitment which requires a close attendance count.  Make your
checks payable to "Fantasia Systems Inc." and mail them to AA6ER at: Glenn
Tenney, AA6ER; Fantasia Systems Inc.; 2111 Ensenada Way; San Mateo, CA 94403
(the address is also on the form).

Hotel Reservations

We've arranged an attractive room rate of $69 per night, plus tax, for single or
double occupancy.  You'll have to make your hotel reservations early as the number
of rooms blocked out for us is limited.   Call the Radisson Hotel directly at (800) 333-
3333 to make your reservation.  You'll need to tell them your reservation is for the
"ARRL CNC" to access our block of rooms.  The way hotels work, it will help us
meet our budget if our block of rooms is used up.

Transportation

The conference hotel is located near to the San Jose International airport which
supports both commercial and general aircraft.  The Radisson Hotel offers shuttle
service to and from the airport.  Be sure to ask about the shuttle service when you
make your hotel reservation.

In an effort to save you money, we've selected American Airlines as the official
airline for the conference.  What this means is that you can receive discount air
fares (eg. from within the U.S., 5% off the lowest published applicable fare).  You'll
have to contact American Airlines directly for details.  Call their Meeting Services
Desk at [phone] and refer to Star #S47Z14A.   Since San Jose is an American
Airlines' hub, you should find it very convenient.

The Agenda

We're still improving and tweaking the agenda, but here's the agenda as it stands
right now:

Friday, 27 September

    13:00 - 17:00:  In-Depth Tutorials

Three concurrent in-depth technical sessions will be available.  These planned
"tutorials" are expected to include:  Digital Signal Processing; Spread Spectrum and
Part 15; and Packet Satellites.  The speakers selected will be those currently working
on the leading edge of these technologies.  These sessions will allow the subjects to
be covered in depth and right down to the bits and bytes level.  These sessions are
priced separately, and will include handouts and a mid-afternoon break.

19:00 - 21:30:  Dinner

Instead of everyone trying to find a pizza place that can handle fifty or a couple of
hundred people, we've decided to have a very special group dinner.  As an option
you can sign up for the Friday evening dinner and join everyone for a LUAU!  Yes,
a real honest to goodness luau!  This should be an ideal time for everyone to relax.
We expect that most of you will join us, even if you aren't attending the tutorials.
This will be right at the hotel, so you won't have to drive anywhere.  After dinner
we expect to have some informal BOF sessions.

Saturday, 28 September

    08:30 - 17:00:  Presentation of CNC Papers

This is the traditional part of the conference.  As in past years we'll be gathering up
all of the papers submitted for presentation, and divide them into the time
available.  Everyone will have a chance to present a paper.  The published
proceedings and lunch (at noon) are included in the conference fee.

    18:30 - 21:00:  Dinner

The CNC doesn't stop at dinner.  We've arranged an optional dinner at the hotel
complete with a guest speaker.  At this time, we don't know who will be the banquet
speaker, but based on some of the names we're discussing, you won't want to miss
this!

    21:00 - 24:00:  BOF sessions

Ten or fifteen minutes per paper really isn't enough, so we've planned break-out
rooms for "Birds Of a Feather" sessions.  During the day we'll have sign-up sheets so
that discussion groups can form and really get into topics of greatest interest.

Sunday, 29 September:

As usual, the digital committee will have their business meeting Sunday morning
from 09:00 until 12:00.  But that's not all...

We're going to have a demo room available from about 09:00 until 13:00.  We're
hoping that you'll be able to bring a rig with you to show off your latest work.  We
may also have some exhibitors.  But wait, that's still not all...

We're going to present various newcomer tutorials from 10:00 until 13:00.  These
tutorials may be for the first-time packet user, while others might be for the first-
time TCP/IP user.  These tutorials will help folks learn more about various aspects
of packet radio.  The demo/exhibit room and newcomer tutorials will be open to all
hams and prospective hams whether signed up for the rest of the conference or not.

And finally, the San Jose Technology Center is a short light-rail ride away and they
have a fantastic high-tech museum called The Garage.  Although  a trip to the
garage isn't an official part of the CNC, we're sure a large group will be planning a
visit on Sunday.  We'll try to help plan this outing during the conference.  We'll
likely work out a late morning trip and an early afternoon trip.

73,
Glenn Tenney, AA6ER
Fantasia Systems Inc.
2111 Ensenada Way
San Mateo, CA 94403

Voice: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
UUCP/Internet: [e-mail]
CompuServe: 70641,23

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Registration Form
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Name: ________________________________________
Address:
 ________________________________________
 ________________________________________
 ________________________________________

Call:__________ Telephone:____________________

We're printing a roster, should we keep you out of the roster (yes means you will
not be in the roster)? __________

Do you want vegetarian or special meals, if so what? _______________

Will you be presenting a paper? __________



Add up the fees for each person for each event (guests are encouraged).  We have to
pre-pay most of our costs a month before the conference, so please hurry.

Friday afternoon tutorials:
    $30 now, $40 after August 20th     Quantity: _____ Total $:________
Friday night Luau:
    $35 now, $45 after August 20th     Quantity: _____ Total $:________
Saturday  conference (all day)
    $30 now, $40 after August 20th     Quantity: _____ Total $:________
Saturday banquet (with speaker):
    $30 now, $40 after August 20th     Quantity: _____ Total $:________

Total Fee: $ __________


Please make your check payable to:

Fantasia Systems Inc.

Mail the form and check to:

Glenn Tenney, AA6ER
Fantasia Systems Inc.
2111 Ensenada Way
San Mateo, CA 94403

------------------------------

Date: 8 Jul 91 20:11:04 GMT
From: csus.edu!csusac!sactoh0![e-mail]
Subject: how many IP addresses are needed?
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Phil Howard KA9WGN) writes:
> Suppose I am launching a TCP/IP based packet balloon flight, and plan to
> chase it mobile.  While mobile I want to check into the BBS I operate at
> my home as well as check telemetry on my voice repeater via packet, and
> of course contact the balloon, which is crossing through a couple states.

There is an address block (44.193? I'm not sure.) assigned to AMSAT
for space operations.  Maybe you could ask them for a temporary
address.

What would be far more convenient, though, would be an address from
the experimental block (I think 44.242).  No coordination required,
and not much chance of an address conflict.

Would you be using TCP/IP to check into your home equipment?  If
so, you would have to coordinate ahead of time in the "chase
states" so they could route you back home (this is assuming that
the IP community in those states is still using static routing).

--
Mark A. Haun / 3445 Del Mesa Ct. / Sacramento, CA 95821 / Phone: [phone]
UUCP: {ames | apple | sun}!pacbell!sactoh0!mahaun | Amateur Radio KJ6PC
INTERNET: [e-mail] / pacbell!sactoh0![e-mail]
Amateur Pkt Radio: kj6pc@wa6nwe.#nocal.ca.usa -or- [44.2.0.56] on 144.93 MHz

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #173
******************************
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 91 04:30:03 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #174
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Wed, 10 Jul 91       Volume 91 : Issue 174

Today's Topics:
                 Backtalk-200
               MFJ 1270B<-->Yaesu FT470
                packet future

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 9 Jul 91 05:21:20 GMT
From: swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!stjhmc![e-mail]
Subject: Backtalk-200
To: [e-mail]

I tried to get Backtalk-200 running today without much luck.  The program
doesn't install as clearly or as easily as the author pretends.

If anyone has had any luck getting this program running, please contact me by
email.

Thanks,

David
[e-mail]



--
   -------------------------------------------------------------------------
      St. Joseph's Hospital and Medical Center, Phoenix, Arizona
    uucp: {gatech, ames, rutgers}!ncar!asuvax!stjhmc!ddodell
    Bitnet: ATW1H @ ASUACAD                    FidoNet=> 1:114/15
    Internet: [e-mail]       FAX: [phone]

------------------------------

Date: 9 Jul 91 14:54:15 GMT
From: crayola.cs.umd.edu![e-mail]
Subject: MFJ 1270B<-->Yaesu FT470
To: [e-mail]

I'd be interested in receiving wiring information for the cable necessary
to connect a MFJ 1270B TNC-2 to a Yaesu FT470.  I have a diagram, but I find
myself suspicious about the indicated capacitor value.  Thanks for any help.

                    --Rick

------------------------------

Date: 8 Jul 91 18:11:34 GMT
From: sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!kksys!edgar!brainiac![e-mail]
Subject: packet future
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mr. Lyn R. Kennedy) writes:
>Todays thoughts:
>
>It seems that the .ampr.org domain needs a GEO satellite with a port
>in each metropolitan area. I'm not sure exactly how some of the
>internet routing works but it seems that this would allow the common
>connection needed to establish one group. Naturally the link would have
>to be fast and well co-ordinated, but that seems within ham capability.
>Any chance of a GEO AMSAT? Could it be developed on a commercial bird?

That is a fine idea.  Another way is to use the internet as a huge wormhole.
Brian Kantor authored an RFC, rfc1226, about this.  There is code in the
hamradio directory at ucsd.edu to do this.  It seems that the idea is taking
off, so maybe ampr.org will be better connected faster than we think.  Note
that the RFC and the software on ucsd encapsulate AX.25 frames within IP
packets.  This means that you are not restricted to ampr IP traffic, you
could even have normal keyboard to keyboard connections using this technique,
or connect to distant netrom nodes, etc.
--
    Jeffrey R. Comstock -- HOME [e-mail] -- WORK [e-mail]

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #174
******************************
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 91 04:30:03 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #175
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Thu, 11 Jul 91       Volume 91 : Issue 175

Today's Topics:
               Amiga 500 for sale $350
               AX.25 vs TCP/IP
             bounced mail at crl
           Explanation of packet radio FAQ
          how many IP addresses are needed?
                Nothin
             Packet-Radio Digest V91 #173
                packet future
               packet radio FAQ 3 of 3
             packet radio FAQ part 1 of 3
             packet radio FAQ part 2 of 3
    Remote Novell LAN connection via Amateur Packet Radio (3 msgs)
            Seeking List of Current PBBS's
             what is pgh.pa.us ?

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 10 Jul 91 14:11:24 GMT
From: sdd.hp.com!caen!hellgate.utah.edu!pwa-b![e-mail]
Subject: Amiga 500 for sale $350
To: [e-mail]

For sale:  Amiga 500, 1megabyte ram, s/w, manuals, cables
and original box.  Works great.

Voice: [phone]
Email:  uunet\!pwa-b\!m086414

------------------------------

Date: 10 Jul 91 18:51:45 GMT
From: uswnvg![e-mail]
Subject: AX.25 vs TCP/IP
To: [e-mail]

This should probably be a FAQ, and I'm sure it will start a flamefest,
but here goes anyway -

I'm a new packet user, and I'm trying to decide on the primary method
I'm going to use to talk to the rest of the world.  As far as I can tell,
my two choices are straight AX.25 or TCP/IP.  I'm having a hard time
figuring out which is best for me.  Here's some background:

ME - I do Unix database administration and systems administration for a
living, so I'm not afraid to get down and dirty with software and/or
hardware. I have successfully implemented an early version of KA9Q
NOS for Unix.

STATION - my station right now is an HK-232 (PK232 clone) with the
PK232MBX option and the TAPR DCD State Machine, driving an ICOM 24-AT.
The computer is a Tandy 5000MC running SCO Unix.  I can run DOS if I
have to, but would rather not. QTH is Issaquah, WA (about 20mi E of
Seattle).

As I see it, there are some advantages and disadvantages to either one.
Here's what I see:

TCP/IP
-----
PROS
    Seems to be better on poor paths - ie, it will retry forever
    (this could also be a con :-) )
    Will interface easily with my Unix mail system
    I understand the underlying protocol better (but NOT the
    routing stuff).
    I can send and receive mail directly, rather than through a
    packet bbs.
    Binary file transfers
CONS
    Routing seems to be problematic.  For example, it appears  that
    in this area, there is no domain name server, so I can hear
    people, and they can hear me (sometimes), but we can't carry
    on a two way conversation (of any sort) until I get added
    (by hand) to his routing tables.
    NO documentation
    Using digipeaters or nodes appears more difficult
    A LOT of people have told me how BAD TCP is (but never any
    real 'reasons').

AX.25
-----
PROS
    The documentation is a bit better
    Packet BBS access is easier.
    Routing just sort of happens, with no effort on my part
CONS
    I have yet to figure out how to send and receive mail without
    using a Packet BBS.
    To interface mail with Unix mail, I'd need to write a lot
    of code.
    No (transparent) binary file transfers

Well, there's my list, and my dilemma.  Right now, AX.25 will work for
me, and TCP won't, because of the routing troubles, I'm having. So,
I guess the bottom line is "Is TCP/IP worth the effort?".  I'd
appreciate any comments folks have, or pointers to documentation (for
EITHER AX.25 or TCP), or whatever.

73!
--
Clay Jackson - N7QNM
US WEST NewVector Group, Inc
[e-mail] | ...uunet!uswnvg!cjackso

------------------------------

Date: 10 Jul 91 14:43:56 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: bounced mail at crl
To: [e-mail]



------------------------------

Date: 10 Jul 91 13:00:56 GMT
From: usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!maverick.ksu.ksu.edu!matt.ksu.ksu.edu![e-mail]
Subject: Explanation of packet radio FAQ
To: [e-mail]

I hope most of you have been able to read my packet radio FAQ posting.

I intend the FAQ to grow by bounds in the next few versions.  I
decided to put out version 1.0 in it's current status to try to get
some ideas from you net.readers.

I would like to have as many comments about the FAQ as possible in
order to see what else needs to be included.  Right now on my
to-do list is to add:

A separate section with references (RTFM, right? :-) )
A list of magazines with packet radio.
Organizations to join.  (Newsletters, etc)
Coordination Groups and user groups in various areas. (I need help here)
Where to get IP addresses for AMPR.
More definitions as I find them.
More FTP sites/mailing lists.
Add info about the AX.25/IP packet wormholes through Internet.
Add more networking schemes like TexNet/Flexnet/Pack-ten. (I really
    need help on this since I have never used them.)
Add info on baycomm.
Info on modems.
Info on fast modems.
DX Cluster info.  (Anyone have references in ASCII?)
Phone line vs. packet modems.
Packet BBS systems.

Now, what did I forget.... :-)

If anyone has any info that would help me out on any of the subjects,
I would be happy to have it.  Also, if anyone would like to volunteer
to do any section, I will gladly include their submission.

Thanks.

-Steve Schallehn, KB0AGD
 Kansas State University

------------------------------

Date: 11 Jul 91 04:12:55 GMT
From: sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu![e-mail]
Subject: how many IP addresses are needed?
To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Mark A. Haun) writes:

>Would you be using TCP/IP to check into your home equipment?  If
>so, you would have to coordinate ahead of time in the "chase
>states" so they could route you back home (this is assuming that
>the IP community in those states is still using static routing).

This should be line any other mobile activity.  I used the terms "chase" just
to connect it to the ballon activity at the same time.  Making advance
arrangements to route packets is just not in the spirit of ham radio,
especially as it applies to emergency preparedness.  This network should
ideally work no matter where everyone suddenly has to move off to in less
than an hour's notice.  Mobile operation must be considered.
--
 /***************************************************************************\
/ Phil Howard -- KA9WGN -- [e-mail]   |  Guns don't aim guns at  \
\ Lietuva laisva -- Brivu Latviju -- Eesti vabaks  |  people; CRIMINALS do!!  /
 \***************************************************************************/

------------------------------

Date: 10 Jul 91 13:35:28 GMT
From: swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!merrimack.edu![e-mail]
Subject: Nothin
To: [e-mail]

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[e-mail]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"HEY HEY HEY HEY...HEY STOOPID!"--Alice Cooper #"If your not crankin' it,
"I've outgrown that fuckin' lullabuy.."-METALLICA# You must be yankin' it"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ WAAF 107.3 FM ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

Date: Tue,  9 Jul 91 04:30:04 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #173
To: [e-mail]

Packet-Radio Digest         Tue,  9 Jul 91       Volume 91 : Issue 173

Today's Topics:
     10th ARRL Computer Networking Conference, Sept. 27-29, 1991
          how many IP addresses are needed?

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 8 Jul 91 06:38:42 GMT
From: pacbell.com!lll-winken!well![e-mail]
Subject: 10th ARRL Computer Networking Conference, Sept. 27-29, 1991
To: [e-mail]

------ this version is not suitable for transmission by amateur packet ------
------ email [e-mail] for a sanitized version which should ------
------ be suitable for transmission via amateur packet                 ------

10th ARRL Amateur Radio
Computer Networking Conference
27-29 September 1991
Radisson Airport Hotel
San Jose, CA

The Northern California Packet Association (NCPA) is hosting this year's ARRL
Computer Networking Conference and invites you to attend.  Glenn Tenney,
AA6ER, is the local conference chairperson.

Hams from around the world will be presenting papers on what they're working on
in packet radio.  The presentations  and papers might cover any subject from
satellites to spread spectrum, from protocols to hardware, or any other topic related
to how hams are, or will be networking

In addition to the usual presentation of papers all day Saturday, this year's
conference will be surrounded by other intersting and informative activities.  See
the agenda inside to see what we have planned for Friday and Sunday.  You won't
want to miss any of this.  Send in the attached registration right now, and contact
the ARRL for an author's packet.

How to Submit Papers

The deadline for receipt of camera-ready papers is 12 August.  If you're going to
submit a paper, you should contact Lori Weinberg at ARRL, 225 Main Street,
Newington, CT 06111, telephone [phone], fax at 203-665-7531.  Lori is handling
the arrangements for the proceedings.

How to Register for the Conference

Please use the attached conference pre-registration form to register for the tutorials,
main conference, and the dinners.  We are working with a VERY tight budget and
would appreciate receiving your registration and check at the earliest possible date.
We have already had to make quite a commitment to the hotel, and catering is
asking for a commitment which requires a close attendance count.  Make your
checks payable to "Fantasia Systems Inc." and mail them to AA6ER at: Glenn
Tenney, AA6ER; Fantasia Systems Inc.; 2111 Ensenada Way; San Mateo, CA 94403
(the address is also on the form).

Hotel Reservations

We've arranged an attractive room rate of $69 per night, plus tax, for single or
double occupancy.  You'll have to make your hotel reservations early as the number
of rooms blocked out for us is limited.   Call the Radisson Hotel directly at (800) 333-
3333 to make your reservation.  You'll need to tell them your reservation is for the
"ARRL CNC" to access our block of rooms.  The way hotels work, it will help us
meet our budget if our block of rooms is used up.

Transportation

The conference hotel is located near to the San Jose International airport which
supports both commercial and general aircraft.  The Radisson Hotel offers shuttle
service to and from the airport.  Be sure to ask about the shuttle service when you
make your hotel reservation.

In an effort to save you money, we've selected American Airlines as the official
airline for the conference.  What this means is that you can receive discount air
fares (eg. from within the U.S., 5% off the lowest published applicable fare).  You'll
have to contact American Airlines directly for details.  Call their Meeting Services
Desk at [phone] and refer to Star #S47Z14A.   Since San Jose is an American
Airlines' hub, you should find it very convenient.

The Agenda

We're still improving and tweaking the agenda, but here's the agenda as it stands
right now:

Friday, 27 September

    13:00 - 17:00:  In-Depth Tutorials

Three concurrent in-depth technical sessions will be available.  These planned
"tutorials" are expected to include:  Digital Signal Processing; Spread Spectrum and
Part 15; and Packet Satellites.  The speakers selected will be those currently working
on the leading edge of these technologies.  These sessions will allow the subjects to
be covered in depth and right down to the bits and bytes level.  These sessions are
priced separately, and will include handouts and a mid-afternoon break.

19:00 - 21:30:  Dinner

Instead of everyone trying to find a pizza place that can handle fifty or a couple of
hundred people, we've decided to have a very special group dinner.  As an option
you can sign up for the Friday evening dinner and join everyone for a LUAU!  Yes,
a real honest to goodness luau!  This should be an ideal time for everyone to relax.
We expect that most of you will join us, even if you aren't attending the tutorials.
This will be right at the hotel, so you won't have to drive anywhere.  After dinner
we expect to have some informal BOF sessions.

Saturday, 28 September

    08:30 - 17:00:  Presentation of CNC Papers

This is the traditional part of the conference.  As in past years we'll be gathering up
all of the papers submitted for presentation, and divide them into the time
available.  Everyone will have a chance to present a paper.  The published
proceedings and lunch (at noon) are included in the conference fee.

    18:30 - 21:00:  Dinner

The CNC doesn't stop at dinner.  We've arranged an optional dinner at the hotel
complete with a guest speaker.  At this time, we don't know who will be the banquet
speaker, but based on some of the names we're discussing, you won't want to miss
this!

    21:00 - 24:00:  BOF sessions

Ten or fifteen minutes per paper really isn't enough, so we've planned break-out
rooms for "Birds Of a Feather" sessions.  During the day we'll have sign-up sheets so
that discussion groups can form and really get into topics of greatest interest.

Sunday, 29 September:

As usual, the digital committee will have their business meeting Sunday morning
from 09:00 until 12:00.  But that's not all...

We're going to have a demo room available from about 09:00 until 13:00.  We're
hoping that you'll be able to bring a rig with you to show off your latest work.  We
may also have some exhibitors.  But wait, that's still not all...

We're going to present various newcomer tutorials from 10:00 until 13:00.  These
tutorials may be for the first-time packet user, while others might be for the first-
time TCP/IP user.  These tutorials will help folks learn more about various aspects
of packet radio.  The demo/exhibit room and newcomer tutorials will be open to all
hams and prospective hams whether signed up for the rest of the conference or not.

And finally, the San Jose Technology Center is a short light-rail ride away and they
have a fantastic high-tech museum called The Garage.  Although  a trip to the
garage isn't an official part of the CNC, we're sure a large group will be planning a
visit on Sunday.  We'll try to help plan this outing during the conference.  We'll
likely work out a late morning trip and an early afternoon trip.

73,
Glenn Tenney, AA6ER
Fantasia Systems Inc.
2111 Ensenada Way
San Mateo, CA 94403

Voice: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
UUCP/Internet: [e-mail]
CompuServe: 70641,23

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Registration Form
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Name: ________________________________________
Address:
 ________________________________________
 ________________________________________
 ________________________________________

Call:__________ Telephone:____________________

We're printing a roster, should we keep you out of the roster (yes means you will
not be in the roster)? __________

Do you want vegetarian or special meals, if so what? _______________

Will you be presenting a paper? __________



Add up the fees for each person for each event (guests are encouraged).  We have to
pre-pay most of our costs a month before the conference, so please hurry.

Friday afternoon tutorials:
    $30 now, $40 after August 20th     Quantity: _____ Total $:________
Friday night Luau:
    $35 now, $45 after August 20th     Quantity: _____ Total $:________
Saturday  conference (all day)
    $30 now, $40 after August 20th     Quantity: _____ Total $:________
Saturday banquet (with speaker):
    $30 now, $40 after August 20th     Quantity: _____ Total $:________

Total Fee: $ __________


Please make your check payable to:

Fantasia Systems Inc.

Mail the form and check to:

Glenn Tenney, AA6ER
Fantasia Systems Inc.
2111 Ensenada Way
San Mateo, CA 94403

------------------------------

Date: 8 Jul 91 20:11:04 GMT
From: csus.edu!csusac!sactoh0![e-mail]
Subject: how many IP addresses are needed?
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Phil Howard KA9WGN) writes:
> Suppose I am launching a TCP/IP based packet balloon flight, and plan to
> chase it mobile.  While mobile I want to check into the BBS I operate at
> my home as well as check telemetry on my voice repeater via packet, and
> of course contact the balloon, which is crossing through a couple states.

There is an address block (44.193? I'm not sure.) assigned to AMSAT
for space operations.  Maybe you could ask them for a temporary
address.

What would be far more convenient, though, would be an address from
the experimental block (I think 44.242).  No coordination required,
and not much chance of an address conflict.

Would you be using TCP/IP to check into your home equipment?  If
so, you would have to coordinate ahead of time in the "chase
states" so they could route you back home (this is assuming that
the IP community in those states is still using static routing).

--
Mark A. Haun / 3445 Del Mesa Ct. / Sacramento, CA 95821 / Phone: [phone]
UUCP: {ames | apple | sun}!pacbell!sactoh0!mahaun | Amateur Radio KJ6PC
INTERNET: [e-mail] / pacbell!sactoh0![e-mail]
Amateur Pkt Radio: kj6pc@wa6nwe.#nocal.ca.usa -or- [44.2.0.56] on 144.93 MHz

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #173
******************************

------------------------------

Date: 10 Jul 91 20:08:47 GMT
From: agate!stanford.edu!neon.Stanford.EDU!umunhum![e-mail]
Subject: packet future
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mr. Lyn R. Kennedy) writes:
>It seems that the .ampr.org domain needs a GEO satellite with a port
>in each metropolitan area.

This has been proposed at various times over the last five years by others
and myself.  The principal difficulty is the cost of putting anything in
geosync orbit -- the opportunities are nowhere near as frequent as LEO spots.
We could probably get away with some sort of a network based on a number of
LEO satellites, but I'm not too sure it would be any more cost effective.




--
-=Paul Flaherty, N9FZX        | "Gentlemen do not read each other's mail."
->[e-mail]   | - Henry L. Stimson (1929)

------------------------------

Date: 10 Jul 91 12:33:41 GMT
From: swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!maverick.ksu.ksu.edu!matt.ksu.ksu.edu![e-mail]
Subject: packet radio FAQ 3 of 3
To: [e-mail]

Frequently Asked Questions
for
Amateur Packet Radio
Part 3 of 3

Version 1.0
9 Jul 1991

This document is for unlimited distribution.

Please send corrections and additions to Steve Schallehn
([e-mail]).  This posting will be made on a monthly
basis, posted to rec.radio.amateur.packet.



3.0 Networking and special packet protocols. . . . . . . . . .  1
     3.1 Are there any other protocols in use other than
      AX.25? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  1
     3.2 What is TCP/IP? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  1
     3.3 Networking Schemes. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  2
      3.3.0 What are some of those other networking
           schemes?. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  2
      3.3.1 Digipeaters. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  2
      3.3.2 KA-Nodes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  2
      3.3.3 NET/ROM. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  2
      3.3.4 ROSE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  3



3.0 Networking and special packet protocols

This is a sample of some of the more popular networking schemes
available today.  By far, there are more customized networking
schemes used than listed.  Consult your local packet network guru
for specific network information.


3.1 Are there any other protocols in use other than AX.25?

AX.25 is considered the defacto standard protocol for amateur
radio use and is even recognized by many countries as a legal
operation mode.  However, there are other standards.  TCP/IP is
used in some areas for amateur radio.  Also, some networking
protocols use other packet formats than AX.25.


3.2 What is TCP/IP?

TCP/IP stands for Transmission Control Protocol/Internet
Protocol.  This is commonly used over the Internet wired computer
network.  The TCP/IP suite contains different transmission
facilities such as FTP (File Transfer Protocol), SMTP (Simple
Mail Transport Protocol), Telnet (Remote terminal protocol), and
NNTP (Net News Transfer Protocol)

The KA9Q NOS program (also called NET) is the most commonly used
version of TCP/IP in packet radio.  NOS originally was written
for the PC compatible.  However, NOS has been ported to many
different computers such as the Amiga, Macintosh, Unix System V,
and others.  Smaller computers like the Commodore 64 and the
Timex-Sinclar do not currently have version of NOS available.



3.3 Networking Schemes

3.3.0 What are some of those other networking schemes?

During the early days of amateur packet radio, it became apparent
that a packet network was needed.  To this end, the following
packet network schemes were created.


3.3.1 Digipeaters

The first networking scheme with packet radio was Digipeaters.
Digipeaters would simply look at a packet, and if it's call was
in the digipeater field, it would resend the packet.  Digipeaters
allow the extension of range of a transmitter by retransmitting
any packets addressed to the digipeater.

This scheme worked well with only a few people on the radio
channel.  However, as packet became more popular, digipeaters
soon were clogging up the airwaves with traffic being repeated
over long distances.  Also, if a packet got lost by one of the
digipeaters, the originator station would have to retransmit the
packet again, forcing every digipeater to transmit again and
causing more congestion.


3.3.2 KA-Nodes

Kantronics improved on the digipeater slightly and created KA-
Nodes.  As with digipeaters, KA-Nodes simply repeat AX.25 frames.
However, a KA-Node acknowledges every transmission each link
instead of over the entire route.  Therefore, instead of an end-
to-end acknowledgement, KA-Nodes allow for more reliable
connections because acknowledgments only carried on one link.
KA-Nodes therefore are more reliable than digipeaters, but are
not a true network.  It is similar like having to wire your own
telephone network to make a phone call.


3.3.3 NET/ROM

NET/ROM was one of the first networking schemes to try to address
the problems with digipeaters.  A user connects to a NET/ROM as
if connecting to any other packet station.  From there, he can
issue the NET/ROM commands to instruct it to connect to another
user locally or connect to another NET/ROM.  This connect then
connect again means that to a user's TNC, you are connected to a
local station only and it's transmissions does not have to be
digipeated over the entire network and risk loosing packets.
This local connection proved to be more reliable.

NET/ROM don't use all of the AX.25 protocol.  Instead, they use
special AX.25 packet called Unnumbered Information (UI) packets
and then put their own special protocol on top of AX.25.  This is
again used to increase efficiency of it's transmissions.

NET/ROM is a commercial firmware (software put on a chip) program
that is used as a replacement ROM in TAPR type TNC's.  Other
programs are available to emulate NET/ROM.  Among them are
TheNet, G8BPQ node switch, and some versions of NET.

NET/ROM nodes, at regular intervals, transmit to other nodes
their current list of known nodes.  This is good because as new
nodes come on-line, they are automatically integrated in the
network, but if band conditions such as ducting occur, often
unreachable nodes are entered into node lists.  This causes the
NET/ROM routing software to choose routes to distant nodes that
are impossible.  This problem requires users to develop a route
to a distant node manually defining each hop instead of using the
automatic routing feature.


3.3.4 ROSE

Rose is another networking protocol derived from X.25.  Rose
nodes have a static list of the nodes it can reach.  For a user
to use a ROSE switch, he issues a connect with the destination
station and in the digipeater field places the call of the local
rose switch and the distant rose switch the destination station
can hear.  Other then that, the network is completely transparent
to the user.

The static routing tables ROSE uses ensures that packet routing
does not use unreliable links such as NET/ROM suffers from.
However, ROSE suffers from it's inability to change it's routing
table as new nodes come on line.  The operator must manually
change every routing table, thus ROSE networks require greater
maintenance times.

------------------------------

Date: 10 Jul 91 12:29:26 GMT
From: swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!maverick.ksu.ksu.edu!matt.ksu.ksu.edu![e-mail]
Subject: packet radio FAQ part 1 of 3
To: [e-mail]

Frequently Asked Questions
for
Amateur Packet Radio
Part 1 of 3

Version 1.0
9 Jul 1991

This document is for unlimited distribution.

Please send corrections and additions to Steve Schallehn
([e-mail]).  This posting will be made on a monthly
basis, posted to rec.radio.amateur.packet.




1.0 Basic Packet Radio Information . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  1
     1.1 What is packet radio? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  1
     1.2 What is amateur radio?. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  2
     1.3 Why packet over other digital modes:  . . . . . . . .  2
     1.4 What elements make up a packet station? . . . . . . .  2
      A TNC (Terminal Node Controller) . . . . . . . . . .  2
      Computer or Terminal . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  3
      A radio  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  3
     1.5 What do you mean we can all use the same channel? . .  3
     1.6 What is AX.25 ? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  3
     1.7 Definitions:  Commonly used terms in Amateur Packet
      Radio. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  3



1.0 Basic Packet Radio Information


1.1 What is packet radio?

Packet radio is digital communications via amateur radio.  Packet
radio takes any digital data stream and sends that via radio to
another amateur radio station.  Packet radio is so named because
it sends the data in small burst, or packets.


1.2 What is amateur radio?

Amateur Radio is individuals using specified radio frequencies
for personal enjoyment, experimentation, and the continuation of
the radio art.  Amateur radio operators must be licensed by their
government.  In the United States, the Federal Communications
Commission issues amateur radio licenses.  Normally, a test on
operating practices, radio theory, and in some cases morse code
proficiency test is administered.  Amateur radio is not to be
used for commercial purposes.  Also, amateur radio operators are
restricted from using profanity and using amateur radio for
illegal purposes.

For more information on Amateur Radio in general, see the monthly
frequently asked questions posting in rec.radio.amateur.misc.


1.3 Why packet over other digital modes:

Packet has one great advantage over other digital modes :
automatic operation.  Packet TNC's are very advanced as far as
automatic control go.  Just simply connect to the other station,
type in your message, and it is sent automatically.  Any packet
TNC can be used a packet relay station, or a digipeater.  This
allows for greater range by stringing several stations in a row.
On HF, this allows for contacts with stations normally not in
propagation range.

Packet radio provides error free transmissions because of built
in error detection schemes.  If a packet is received, it will be
correct.

Also, on VHF/UHF packet, packet operators are allowed to operate
in automatic control mode.  This means that you can leave your
packet station on constantly.  Other users can connect to you at
any time they wish to see if you are home.  Some TNC's even have
Personal BBS's (sometimes called mailboxes) so other amateurs can
leave you messages if you are not at home.

Another advantage of packet over other modes is the ability for
many users to be able to simultaneously use the same frequency
simultaneously.


1.4 What elements make up a packet station?

A TNC (Terminal Node Controller)
A TNC contains a modem to decode the audio signals into digital
signals.  It also contains a micro-computer handle to convert the
digital signals into text that can be sent over a RS-232 port to
the computer.  The CPU also handles the protocol overhead of the
packet station.  When you send data, it takes the text, puts
error checking on it (CRC) and also puts it in an envelope for
sending.  When receiving a signal, it takes it out of the
envelope, and sends the message to the computer.

Computer or Terminal
This is the user interface.  A computer running a terminal
program or just a dumb terminal can be used.  For computers, any
phone modem communications program can be adapted for packet use
or customized packet radio programs are available.

A radio
For 1200 baud operation (normal user access), a standard voice
radio can be used.  For UHF or VHF packet, Narrow band FM is
used, normally on simplex channels.  For HF packet, 300 baud data
is used over single side band modulation.




1.5 What do you mean we can all use the same channel?

Packet radio uses a protocol called AX.25.  AX.25 specifies
channel access (ability to transmit on the channel) to be handled
by CSCA/CD ?????? (Carrier Sense Collision Avoidance / Collision
Detect)  If you need to transmit, your TNC monitors the channel
to see if someone else is transmitting.  If no one else is
transmitting, then the radio keys up and the TNC sends it's
packet.  All the other stations hear the packet and do not
transmit until you are done.  Unfortunately, 2 stations could
accidentally transmit at the same time.  This is called a
collision.  If a collision occurs, neither TNC will receive a
reply back from the last packet it sent.  Each TNC will wait a
random amount of time and then retransmit the packet again.


1.6 What is AX.25 ?

AX.25 (Amateur X.25) is the communications protocol used for
packet radio.  A protocol is a standard for how two computer
systems are to communicate with each other, somewhat analogous to
using business format when writing a business letter.  AX.25 was
developed in the 1970's and based of the wired network protocol
X.25.  Because of the difference in the transport medium (radios
vs wires) and because of different addressing schemes, X.25 was
modified.  AX.25 also included a digipeater field to allow other
stations to automatically repeat packets to extend the range of
transmitters.  One advantage of AX.25 is that every packet sent
contains the senders and recipients amateur radio callsign, thus
providing identification with every transmission.

1.7 Definitions:  Commonly used terms in Amateur Packet Radio

HDLC :  (High-Level Data Link Control Procedures) A standard for
high level link control. (ISO 3309)

AX.25 : Amateur X.25 protocol.  The basis of most packet systems.
See section 1.6.

TAPR : Tucson Amateur packet Radio.  Was the first group to
create a packet radio TNC using AX.25.  Soon a TAPR TNC became
cloned by many others.  TAPR continues development of packet
radio equipment.

digipeater : A packet radio station used for repeating packets.
See section 3.3.1 for more information.

digi : Short name for a digipeater

NET/ROM : A scheme for packet radio networking.  See section
3.3.3 for more information.

TCP/IP : Transmission Control Protocol/Internet Protocol.  A set
of utility programs used over AX.25.  See sections 3.2 for more
information.

KA9Q NOS : (KA9Q Network Operating System)  A TCP/IP program
originally developed by Phil Karn, KA9Q.  Currently there are
many different versions available.  See section 3.2 for more
information.

NODE : A network node.  Often a network node running NET/ROM.

KA-Node : A simple networking scheme developed by Kantronics.
See section 3.3.2 for more info.

CSCA/CD ???? : Carrier Sense Collision Avoidance / Collision
Detect.

TNC : Terminal Node Controller.  See section 1.4 for more
information.

AMPR : An abbreviation for Amateur Packet Radio.

44 net : The class A network designator for TCP/IP amateur packet
radio.  All numerical TCP/IP addresses are in the format of
44.xxx.xxx.xxx.

ampr.org : The organization recognized on Internet for amateur
packet radio TCP/IP.

------------------------------

Date: 10 Jul 91 12:31:47 GMT
From: swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!maverick.ksu.ksu.edu!matt.ksu.ksu.edu![e-mail]
Subject: packet radio FAQ part 2 of 3
To: [e-mail]

Frequently Asked Questions
for
Amateur Packet Radio
Part 2 of 3

Version 1.0
9 Jul 1991

This document is for unlimited distribution.

Please send corrections and additions to Steve Schallehn
([e-mail]).  This posting will be made on a monthly
basis, posted to rec.radio.amateur.packet.



2.0 Computing Network Resources for Amateur Packet radio . . .  1
     2.1 What Newsgroups/mailing lists are available?. . . . .  1
     2.2 What anonymous FTP sites are available  . . . . . . .  2
     2.3 Are there any gateways for mail or news . . . . . . .  2



2.0 Computing Network Resources for Amateur Packet radio

This section summarizes the resources available on Internet for
amateur packet radio operators.


2.1 What Newsgroups/mailing lists are available?

This is a list of all groups that regularly discuss amateur
packet radio.  For newsgroups, subscribe to the group through use
of your news reader.   For mailing lists, add a '-request' to the
end of the list name for subscriptions.  For listserv groups,
send mail to 'listserv' at the node which contains the list.  The
first line of the mail should be 'SUBSCRIBE groupname yourname'.
Send the command 'help' for more information.


rec.radio.amateur.packet (Newsgroup):
General discussions involving Packet Radio.

rec.radio.amateur.misc (Newsgroup):
General amateur radio discussion.  Usually does not contain any
particular information about Amateur Packet Radio.

rec.radio.amateur.policy (Newsgroup):
Discussion of regulation policies regarding every aspect of
amateur radio.  Occasionally deals with polices of packet
coordination and legal issues of packet radio.

rec.radio.swap (Newsgroup):
General for-sale for any radio equipment.  Occasionally will have
packet equipment for sale.  Recommended location for any amateur
packet radio for-sale items.

[e-mail] (listserv group):
A digest redistribution of the rec.radio.amateur.misc Usenet
discussion.

[e-mail] (listserv group):
A digest redistribution of the rec.radio.amateur.packet Usenet
discussion.

[e-mail] (mailing list):
Discussion of high speed modems and radios available and future
plans.  Also includes discussion of networking using high speed
modems.

[e-mail] (mailing list):
Group discussion technical developments of TCP/IP over packet
radio and use of the NOS TCP/IP programs.

[e-mail] (mailing list):
Discussion of current gateways and future plans for gateways.
May deal with sensitive internetworking issues.


For all lists at ucsd.edu, archives are kept of the discussions
and maybe access via anonymous FTP to ucsd.edu.  Some listserv
groups also have archives.  Send to the group's listserv 'help'
for more information on commands.  Digests for the ucsd.edu
discussions are available.  Send mail to [e-mail] with
the first line being 'longindex' for more information.


2.2 What anonymous FTP sites are available for getting packet
radio information and programs:

This is not an inclusive list of FTP sites, but these sites carry
a large portion of the programs available.  Consult the Archie
archive server for info on particular files.  Send mail to
[e-mail] with the line 'help' for more information on
archie file searches.


ucsd.edu : Primary distribution site of KA9Q's TCP/IP packages.
Also, general packet radio information.

simtel20.army.mil: very large collection of amateur radio
software.

wuarchive.wustl.edu: Mirror site of Simtel20 archives.  Easier to
use then the simtel20 archive.


2.3 Are there any gateways for mail or news between internet and
amateur packet radio?

Currently, there is no general use gateways between packet radio
or any other computer network.  The primary problem with such
gateways is required content of amateur packet radio.  Most wire
based networks do not have any rules on content (such as
profanity or business) like amateur radio does.  Therefore, all
traffic destinated to amateur radio has to be hand filtered.

However, there are several experimental wormholes that are being
tested through Internet.  See the discussion on the gateways
discussion group for more information.

------------------------------

Date: 9 Jul 91 18:25:46 GMT
From: usc!rpi!uupsi!pscs.uucp![e-mail]
Subject: Remote Novell LAN connection via Amateur Packet Radio
To: [e-mail]

Hi all;

     I want to connect a remote terminal via an asynchronous connection
to a Novell 286 network.  I am going to try to use PCAnywhere or
NetRemote.  Here's the catch:  The asynchronous connection will be via
Amateur Packet Radio.  HAS ANYONE DONE THIS?

     Here is the setup:  Grade school Novell LAN with Macs and PCs
located in Washington D.C. and a remote laptop PC located in Haiti.
The connection will be via HF packet radio on the 20 Meter band.
(I know that this is going to be painfully slow, but to people who
have no phone, let alone running water, waiting for a message for
a few minutes is not much of a sacrifice)  This link will allow
school children in Haiti and their counterparts here in the
Washington D.C. area to communicate.

     Since the school teachers are adept at using the Novell
network, a connection from the network to the school children in
Haiti will reduce teaching on this end.  It also removes the radios
from the users and thereby may prevent misuse, etc.

I have a few questions about the arrangements:

o If I have the TNC in KISS mode will this be transparent enough
  for the data communications to take place?

o Will PCAnywhere or NetRemote provide error correction procedures?

o Is there any portion of the headers of the Novell packets which
  would be considered "encoded" as far as Amateur Radio regulations
  are concerned?

o How much overhead is involved in the Novell headers and protocol?

What are your thoughts and ideas?  PLEASE DIRECT RESPONSES TO THE
REC.RADIO.AMATEUR.PACKET NEWSGROUP.  TO REPLY DIRECTLY TO ME
PLEASE SEND MAIL TO PSCS![e-mail] (the [e-mail] may
not work for another week.)

Thanks!

73s de John KA3VJH

----------------------------------------------------------------------
John Kingdon                                                    KA3VJH
PSC Systems Inc.                        Internet: pscs![e-mail]
Department of Research and Development     Internet 2: [e-mail]
6100 Executive Blvd. Suite 300                    Packet KA3VJH@WA3ZNW
Rockville, MD 20852                                     (301)-816-2555
----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 10 Jul 91 20:01:09 GMT
From: sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!uofs!vulture.cs.uofs.edu![e-mail]
Subject: Remote Novell LAN connection via Amateur Packet Radio
To: [e-mail]

I can not believe that even using the most liberal of interpretations that
this could be even remotely considered legal.

bill   KB3YV

--

     Bill Gunshannon          |        If this statement wasn't here,
     [e-mail]   |  This space would be left intentionally blank
     [e-mail]    |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>

------------------------------

Date: 11 Jul 91 05:31:50 GMT
From: news.hawaii.edu!mpg.phys.hawaii.edu![e-mail]
Subject: Remote Novell LAN connection via Amateur Packet Radio
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
>I can not believe that even using the most liberal of interpretations that
>this could be even remotely considered legal.

It isn't legal.  Ham radio is being used in this example to support a normal
business activity.  In this case, the business activity is the running of a
school LAN.  The school should be persuing this with commercial communication
vendors.

--
Antonio Querubin
[e-mail] / [e-mail] / [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 10 Jul 91 21:41:45 GMT
From: fs7.ece.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!o.gp.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu![e-mail]
Subject: Seeking List of Current PBBS's
To: [e-mail]

There used to be a list of PBBS's regularly updated and distributed.
I remember a file called WW-LIST.ARC on simtel20.  Now I can't seem to find
anything of the sort.  I would really appreciate it if anyone could tell me
where I might go about finding a national (or at least Pennsylvania)
list of PBBS's.

- Kurt
Kurt Geisel                       SNAIL :
Carnegie Mellon University            65 Lambeth Dr.
ARPA : [e-mail]           Pittsburgh, PA 15241
UUCP : uunet!nfsun!kgeisel  "We just need to short-circuit the continuum on a
BIX  : kgeisel               5 or 6 parsec level."  - Forbidden Planet
AIR  : N3JTW

------------------------------

Date: 11 Jul 91 00:45:54 GMT
From: swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu![e-mail]
Subject: what is pgh.pa.us ?
To: [e-mail]

Jim Durham has described his packet<>internet gateway in this newsgroup.
How do I reach Jim on Internet? His return address is:

 [e-mail] (Jim Durham)

my name server doesn't like this. Any ideas?
David.

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #175
******************************
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 91 04:30:04 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #176
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Fri, 12 Jul 91       Volume 91 : Issue 176

Today's Topics:
          Amiga 500/HD/modem system for sale
               AX.25 vs TCP/IP
             what is pgh.pa.us ?

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 11 Jul 91 15:13:09 GMT
From: infonode!ingr!b11!zaphod![e-mail]
Subject: Amiga 500/HD/modem system for sale
To: [e-mail]

FOR SALE -
    All prices are negotiable.

FOR SALE

Amiga 500 system consisting of
    A500 + A501 RAM/clock                            390
    Phoenix Power Supply
    A590 HD controller                               620
    w/ Conner 82MB drive + 2 MB RAM
    A1084S stereo monitor                            170
    SUPRA 2400 modem                                  75
    1MB AGNUS chip w/instructions                     50
    installed in A500 if you buy it, too
    A2000 keyboard                                    50
    works, missing a keycap

Contact me by email if interested in any items.  I am very flexible
about pricing and delivery.

--
Michael G. Palmer    205/730-7023
ether:         [e-mail]
   or:         [e-mail]
uucp :         ..uunet!ingr!b11!zaphod!mpalmer

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 91 02:36:44 GMT
From: sample.eng.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!ncoast![e-mail]
Subject: AX.25 vs TCP/IP
To: [e-mail]

As quoted from <[e-mail]> by [e-mail] (Clay Jackson):
+---------------
| This should probably be a FAQ, and I'm sure it will start a flamefest,
| but here goes anyway -
+---------------

Followups (including this one) now in r.r.a.packet, where they belong.

+---------------
|       Routing seems to be problematic.  For example, it appears  that
|       in this area, there is no domain name server, so I can hear
|       people, and they can hear me (sometimes), but we can't carry
|       on a two way conversation (of any sort) until I get added
|       (by hand) to his routing tables.
+---------------

They should run the modified KA9Q code.  We use G1EMM here, with both RIP and
RSPF routing.  RSPF is best suited for "star" network configurations, RIP for
straight node-to-node access over a local area.

+---------------
|       NO documentation
+---------------

Some out-of-date and less-than-perfect documentation, in the form of various
released papers.  Good luck finding them (but try ftp to ka9q.bellcore.com).

+---------------
|       Using digipeaters or nodes appears more difficult
+---------------

Again, try the G1EMM variant.  I can use "ax25 route add" to add an AX.25
digipeater route for a given AX.25 station.

Nodes are "more difficult", but only slightly.  Use the command "attach netrom"
to configure the NET/ROM emulator interface, then you can "route add" and "arp
add" NET/ROM node routes.  I usually set up arp routes for both when known,
then set the IP routing to use AX.25 for speed when a direct connection is
feasible and NET/ROM for indirect and higher reliability connections.  Also,
NET/ROM is essential for the longer distance contacts (e.g. if I want to ftp
something from N8EMR's BBS I can route to node CMHIP).

+---------------
|       A LOT of people have told me how BAD TCP is (but never any
|       real 'reasons').
+---------------

The IP protocols are designed for a full-duplex connection; they are extremely
slow when used in half-duplex mode (i.e. normal packet operation).  They are
also optimized for higher speed, so 1200 baud IP is even slower by comparison.
(I think someone was going to try 300 baud IP on 17 meters; my only response
to that is "gawwwwwwwwd!".)

Also, the preferred AX.25 timing parameters for IP operation do NOT coexist
well with normal AX.25 PBBS traffic.  AX.25 and IP coexist on 145.01 here-
abouts, and it's a real problem when both kinds of stations are active at the
same time.  145.05, with the same traffic level but AX.25 and NET/ROM only, is
much more responsive; the same goes for the 144.99 and 145.75 IP channels.

+---------------
|       Packet BBS access is easier.
+---------------

A proper configuration makes access of both Ax.25 and IP PBBS systems easy.

+---------------
|       Routing just sort of happens, with no effort on my part
+---------------

I assume you mean PBBS routing.  Not many AX.25 TNCs do automatic digipeater
routing or remember previous digipeater routes (although many custom packet
programs do).

+---------------
|       I have yet to figure out how to send and receive mail without
|       using a Packet BBS.
+---------------

Which kind of PBBS --- personal, or a standard PBBS using MSYS, W0RLI, etc.?
It is possible to use "reverse forwarding" between personal PBBS systems and
standard PBBSes, although not all PBBS sysops will do it (WA8BXN, author of
MSYS, refuses to do reverse forwarding; considering the load on his PBBS as it
is, I don't blame him).

+---------------
|       To interface mail with Unix mail, I'd need to write a lot
|       of code.
+---------------

Well, a little code.  Pick up the MMDF docs from louie.udel.edu and make it a
separate MMDF channel (you did say SCO UNIX).  MMDF does the hard work.

+---------------
|       No (transparent) binary file transfers
+---------------

Several custom packet programs give you essentially transparent binary file
transfers.  Being used to passing binaries around by Unix mail myself, I would
simply use uuencode/uudecode.

+---------------
| I guess the bottom line is "Is TCP/IP worth the effort?".  I'd
| appreciate any comments folks have, or pointers to documentation (for
| EITHER AX.25 or TCP), or whatever.
+---------------

If you have a well-organized and well-connected IP community or have enough
interested hams to make one, *and* you have access to the most recent versions
of the KA9Q software (preferably with the G1EMM or PA0GRI extensions), *and*
you can coordinate a separate frequency for IP communications, use IP.  If
not, stick with AX.25.  (If there aren't enough interested hams, don't plan
to cut out AX.25 entirely....)

One more possibility:  if you want to use NET/ROM and don't want to use real
NET/ROM or TheNET, you can run the KA9Q software with the AX.25 and NET/ROM
interfaces configured and leave the IP interfacing off.  I sometimes do this
in order to monitor NET/ROM traffic on a frequency (if there's a lot of
NET/ROM activity on an AX.25 frequency, it's almost as bad as combined AX.25
and IP activity).  Certainly setting up the KA9Q software is easier than
burning a PROM for TheNET.

And another:  the MSYS PBBS software does AX.25, NET/ROM emulation, and IP
emulation.  A ham whose primary interest is AX.25 but wants to explore NET/ROM
and IP might want to run MSYS instead of KA9Q... but MSYS is not as good for
operation which is to be *primarily* IP.  There's also the risk of being
mistaken for a major PBBS....  :-)

All of the above is IMHO and based on events in northeast Ohio; your mileage
will almost certainly differ.

73 de KF8NH ++Brandon
--
Me: Brandon S. Allbery                   KF8NH: DC to LIGHT!  [44.70.4.88]
Internet: [e-mail]             Delphi: ALLBERY
uunet!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!ncoast!allbery

------------------------------

Date: 11 Jul 91 14:03:06 GMT
From: photon![e-mail]
Subject: what is pgh.pa.us ?
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (david lee) writes:
|> Jim Durham has described his packet<>internet gateway in this newsgroup.
|> How do I reach Jim on Internet? His return address is:
|>
|>  [e-mail] (Jim Durham)
|>
|> my name server doesn't like this. Any ideas?
|> David.

Your mailer needs to understand MX records.  See below.  You might try a kludge
of [e-mail].
-----------------------------------------
photon% nslookup
Default Server:  photon.cs.tamu.edu
Address:  128.194.2.3

> set query=any
> w2xo.pgh.pa.us
Server:  photon.cs.tamu.edu
Address:  128.194.2.3

w2xo.pgh.pa.us  CPU=CT/miniframe        OS=CTIX-3.20
w2xo.pgh.pa.us  preference = 10, mail exchanger = cs.pitt.edu
> cs.pitt.edu
Server:  photon.cs.tamu.edu
Address:  128.194.2.3

cs.pitt.edu     origin = vax.cs.pitt.edu
    mail addr = hoffman.cs.pitt.edu
    serial=91070813, refresh=3600, retry=900, expire=3600000, min=86400
cs.pitt.edu     preference = 9, mail exchanger = speedy.cs.pitt.edu
cs.pitt.edu     preference = 10, mail exchanger = flash.cs.pitt.edu
cs.pitt.edu     preference = 20, mail exchanger = elvis.cs.pitt.edu
cs.pitt.edu     preference = 30, mail exchanger = sun2.cs.pitt.edu
cs.pitt.edu     nameserver = vax.cs.pitt.edu
cs.pitt.edu     nameserver = namsrv.cis.pitt.edu
cs.pitt.edu     nameserver = cadre.dsl.pitt.edu
cs.pitt.edu     inet address = 130.49.2.61
cs.pitt.edu     inet address = 130.49.2.61, protocol = 17
     53 123
cs.pitt.edu     inet address = 130.49.2.61, protocol = 6
     7 21 23 25 53 79 119
cs.pitt.edu     nameserver = nic.cis.pitt.edu
cs.pitt.edu     preference = 40, mail exchanger = vax.cs.pitt.edu
cs.pitt.edu     preference = 10, mail exchanger = speedy.cs.pitt.edu
cs.pitt.edu     preference = 20, mail exchanger = sun2.cs.pitt.edu
cs.pitt.edu     preference = 30, mail exchanger = elvis.cs.pitt.edu
cs.pitt.edu     inet address = 130.49.2.1, protocol = 17
     53 123
cs.pitt.edu     inet address = 130.49.2.1, protocol = 6
     7 21 23 25 53 79 119
cs.pitt.edu     preference = 10, mail exchanger = vax.cs.pitt.edu
cs.pitt.edu     inet address = 130.49.2.1
cs.pitt.edu     preference = 40, mail exchanger = speedy.cs.pitt.edu

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #176
******************************
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 91 04:30:03 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #177
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Sat, 13 Jul 91       Volume 91 : Issue 177

Today's Topics:
                (none)
             AmigaNOS 2.7, where?
               AX.25 vs TCP/IP
             Need procedure for U5MIR BBS
              Packet<->Internet Gateway
               RF LAN Questions

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 91 01:41:10 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: (none)
To: [e-mail]

Hello,
I'm trying to connect a pc running MSYS 1.11 to a pc running
KA9Q using SLIP.
I think I know quite a bit about MSYS and have it configured for a
1200 baud link. I have tried running MSYS on both systems and it
works great. I would like to run KA9Q at one end.
I remember someone else was working on this problem b4 and it would
be easier for me to ask then to figure it out.
I remember something about using Datagram mode in KA9Q's Net program
If you have tried the previous and got it working tell me how!
a copy of your autoexec.net would be helpful as the docs to KA9Q
are not that easy to understand.
I am using a Null-modem in the line between the computers.
73 Jim N8JKQ Sysop of W8YY in beautiful Houghton, MI
Packet N8JKQ @ W8YY.#UPMI.MI.USA
Internet  Thrifty @ mtus5.mtu.edu
bitnet    Thrifty @ mtus5.bitnet
n8jkq.ampr.org 44.92.6.14

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 91 23:16:12 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: AmigaNOS 2.7, where?
To: [e-mail]

Hello all users of AmigaNOS.

I have recently heard that AmigaNOS 2.7 has been released.

Could someone please tell me where I can ftp it from?
(I am still running on AmigaNOS 2.6 and there are several
rather annoying bugs that I'd like to get rid off).

Please reply via Email to: [e-mail]

Thanks,

73

Bernie nu1s

.

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 91 14:32:29 GMT
From: usc!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!cunews!bnrgate!bwdls61!bnr.ca![e-mail]
Subject: AX.25 vs TCP/IP
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH) writes:
|>
|> The IP protocols are designed for a full-duplex connection; they are extremely
Crap.  The IP protocols are specifically not designed for a particular
  datalink layer paradigm.  Consider the original ARPA experiments with
  Satellite-based IP and ALOHA.  They work *very well* on half-duplex links.
  Consider ETHERNET, which is half-duplex.
|> slow when used in half-duplex mode (i.e. normal packet operation).  They are
|> also optimized for higher speed, so 1200 baud IP is even slower by comparison.
More crap. The IP (and particularly TCP) algorithms are designed to accomodate
  a *large* range of latency and bitrates at the data-link layer.  They work
  very well over several orders of magnitude in both speed an latency.
  From 1200 bits per second to well over 300Megabits per second.  From
  a few seconds roundtrip time to a few dozen nanoseconds.

--
Marcus Leech, 4Y11             Bell-Northern Research  |opinions expressed
[e-mail]                  P.O. Box 3511, Stn. C   |are my own, and not
[e-mail]         Ottawa, ON, CAN K1Y 4H7 |necessarily BNRs

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 91 03:43:13 GMT
From: sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ncar!asuvax!anasaz!qip![e-mail]
Subject: Need procedure for U5MIR BBS
To: [e-mail]

Can anyone tell me how to leave a message on the U5MIR bbs? What
command to leave the message, and how to terminate the message,
and anything else needed to leave a message on the BBS for U5MIR?
Also, how to read the BBS.

Thanks in advance.

--
John Moore HAM:NJ7E/CAP:T-Bird 381 {ames!ncar!noao!asuvax,mcdphx}!anasaz!john
USnail: 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale,AZ 85253 anasaz![e-mail]
Voice: [phone]        Wishful Thinking: Long palladium, Short Petroleum
Opinion: Support ALL of the bill of rights, INCLUDING the 2nd amendment!

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 91 06:09:02 GMT
From: gatech!pitt!w2xo![e-mail]
Subject: Packet<->Internet Gateway
To: [e-mail]

I have had a lot of requests for information on how to use
the packet<->internet gateway on my packet (ax25) bbs.

Once again, here's how it works. I apologize a little for it
being somewhat crude, but it was a hack for the local guys that
grew...

1. To mail from the internet to the packet bbs network.

    Send mail to "[e-mail]".
    Use the "Subject:" line as you normally would.
    Make the first line of the message just like you
        were typing a "send message" command line
        into your local bbs. ie;
        S[P,B] TOCALL@[BBS.HADR/DIST]<YOURCALL [$Bulletin ID]
    Enter the text of the message
    Put "/EX" starting at the first column of the next
        line following the message and signature.

2. To mail from the packet bbs network to a ham on the internet:

    Send packet mail to: HISCALL@W2XO.#WPA.PA.USA.NA
    One *very important* proviso: If I dont' have this
    [guy,gal]'s call in my alias file, I don't have the
    faintest idea how to mail it on the internet 8-) .
    Para-psych is not my field! Seriously, I am trying
    to build up an alias file, so if you have a ham call
    and an internet address, please send me both.

3. For those who aren't familiar with the packet bbs command syntax,
    here's a brief rundown...

    S[P,B] TOCALL@[BBS.HADR/DIST]<YOURCALL [$Bulletin ID]

    Refer to the example above  ^  .

    The "S" means "Send a message"
    "P" means "Personal" (Can't be read by other users).
    "B" means "Bulletin".
    "TOCALL" is just the call of the ham to which the mail is going.
    "BBS" is the call of the bbs that this guy/gal uses for a home.
    "HADR" is the "heirarchial address" See example below...
    "DIST" is a mailing list or distributin list. There are many
        of these. "ALLUS" will send to the whole country.
        "PANET" will send to Pennsylvania. "OKIPN" will
        send to Ohio, Kentucky, and Indiana. You get
        the idea.
    "YOURCALL" is just that, your call.

    The optional "Bulletin ID" is used only to uniquely identify
    bulletins to avoid duplicate postings. It is entered with
    a "$" followed (with no space) by a unique alphanumeric
    combination. Custom is to start with your call.
    Oh yes,..there *must* be a space after the "SP" or "SB" .


    So, some examples (This is Unix! Whattd'ya mean *examples*? )

    SP [e-mail]<W3ABC

    SB ALL@ALLUS<W4QQQ $W4QQQ12543


    In the first example, the "AZ.USA.NOAM" means
    "Arizona.United States of America.North America" .
    The abbreviations for states are those used by the
    post office. You don't always need the whole address.
    However, if you want to use just the state, use a perios
    on both sides ".OH.". ".EU" will work for European bbses,
    "OC" (Oceana) for Australia, etc, SA for South America.
    The idea is to source route the message to the right
    geographic location where hopefully the bbs will be
    known by call letters.

    It is *very* important that you use the H address, as
    nameserver service on 1200 baud ax25 is pretty slow and
    my file of bbses by call is not nearly complete.

    I probably left out something important. E-mail me
    at "[e-mail]" if you have questions.

-Jim Durham  W2XO


------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 91 15:36:27 GMT
From: usc!rpi!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!bonnie.concordia.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!ubitrex.mb.ca![e-mail]
Subject: RF LAN Questions
To: [e-mail]

Does anyone have information relating to the use of RF
communications (particularily spread-spectrum) in a hosptial
environment?  I'm particularily interested in:
    - potential for interference with patient-care equipment
    - susceptibility to EMI

I'm also interested to see if anyone has any experiece with the
current line-up of wireless networking products (NCR,Telesystems,
OCI,etc) in this environment or in industrial applications - sites
harsher than typical "open-offices".  Any information (even mildly
related) related to these questions would be appreciated.

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 91 20:30:27 GMT
From: theory.TC.Cornell.EDU![e-mail]
To: [e-mail]

References <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>
Subject : Re: AX.25 vs TCP/IP

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Phil Howard KA9WGN) writes:
>>Crap.  The IP protocols are specifically not designed for a particular
>>  datalink layer paradigm.  Consider the original ARPA experiments with
>>  Satellite-based IP and ALOHA.  They work *very well* on half-duplex links.
>>  Consider ETHERNET, which is half-duplex.
>
>Perhaps more likely the problem is that IP is design for more bulkier data
>than is typically the normal traffic now found on AX.25.

    Wait!  We're comparing apples and oranges here.  IP is a *datagram*
service, AX.25 is a *link layer* protocol.  IP specifies the format of
packets in a best-effort (implied unreliable) network.  AX.25 is a protocol
that provides reliable streams between two points.

>>  a *large* range of latency and bitrates at the data-link layer.  They work
>>  very well over several orders of magnitude in both speed an latency.
>>  From 1200 bits per second to well over 300Megabits per second.  From
>>  a few seconds roundtrip time to a few dozen nanoseconds.
>
>Where TCP/IP does not do so well is in things like one-character-at-a-time
>type of traffic, such as telnet.  There are ways to deal with this, but I
>have forgotten the RFC number at the moment.

    ANY protocol that operates in a character-by-character mode (where
there is a single packet exchange for each keystroke) will "not do so well".
Note that this mode is not a characteristic of TCP:  try setting your PACLEN
on your TNC to 1 and you will have the same effect.  Also, telnet has a
line mode that buffers typed characters localy until a full line is typed;
--
=  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =
Andrew C. Payne, N8KEI        UUCP:  ...!cornell!batcomputer!payne
              INTERNET:  [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 91 16:40:48 GMT
From: uvaarpa!murdoch!turing![e-mail]
To: [e-mail]

References <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>
Subject : Re: AX.25 vs TCP/IP

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Marcus Leech) writes:
>
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH) writes:
>|>
>|> The IP protocols are designed for a full-duplex connection; they are extremely
>Crap.  The IP protocols are specifically not designed for a particular
>  datalink layer paradigm.  Consider the original ARPA experiments with
>  Satellite-based IP and ALOHA.  They work *very well* on half-duplex links.
>  Consider ETHERNET, which is half-duplex.

Sounds right, but... Pls explain... It seems that experience has shown that
full duplex operation improves SLIP (and any other serial asynchronous methods)
throughput, at least from what I've read.

The HST high speed modems provided 'full duplex operation' via the combination
of a 9600 BPS recieve (to the terminal) channel, and a 300 BPS send channel.

These apparently proved to be less than useful. Switching to a V.32 link,
which has 9600 tx/rx channels, performance was as expected given the data
rate.

What explains this? I suppose it's because there is a lot of bidirectional
data flow in an IP link, and that the amount of traffic sent is enough to
totally overwhelm the 300 BPS channel?

Given this, would a link, say with a 9600 channel, and a 56K channel be
somewhat limited by the 9600 channel?

Please, if you answer (and I hope you or someone will) conjecture on the
send/recieve ratios to acheive adequate throughput in a variety of diferent
environments (text terminal to host, Various Peer protocols, X, etc..)

For instance, I suppose there would be a constant baseline for the IP traffic,
and other low layer protocols. Then for 'typical' text terminal to host links
you might add x amount of bandwidth to either channel, and for an X based
traffic pattern, (assuming some typical number of windows and types of tasks)
it might be y amount.

So, it might be that a 2400BPS channel and a 9600BPS channel would able to
handle a certain traffic profile.


All just cranial onanism, to be sure, but if anyone is interested in such
a cyclical manipulation, respond :)

>--
>Marcus Leech, 4Y11             Bell-Northern Research  |opinions expressed
>[e-mail]                  P.O. Box 3511, Stn. C   |are my own, and not
>[e-mail]         Ottawa, ON, CAN K1Y 4H7 |necessarily BNRs


--
  <>===============================<>=============================<>========<>
  || Jon Gefaell, Systems Engineer || [e-mail] ||  \     ||
  ||  Data  Communications  Group  || HAM-KD4C??  Grid Sq. FM08RF ||   \    ||
  ||  Information  Technology and  || [phone] [phone] ||   /\   ||
  ||  Communications.  Univ of VA  || Lat/Lon 38 04 06N/78 03 53W ||  /  \  ||
  <>===============================<>=============================<>========<>

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 91 16:28:04 GMT
From: sdd.hp.com!caen!news.cs.indiana.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu![e-mail]
To: [e-mail]

References <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>

Subject : Re: AX.25 vs TCP/IP

[e-mail] (Marcus Leech) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Brandon S. A
>|>
>|> The IP protocols are designed for a full-duplex connection; they are extreme
>Crap.  The IP protocols are specifically not designed for a particular
>  datalink layer paradigm.  Consider the original ARPA experiments with
>  Satellite-based IP and ALOHA.  They work *very well* on half-duplex links.
>  Consider ETHERNET, which is half-duplex.

Perhaps more likely the problem is that IP is design for more bulkier data
than is typically the normal traffic now found on AX.25.

>|> slow when used in half-duplex mode (i.e. normal packet operation).  They are
>|> also optimized for higher speed, so 1200 baud IP is even slower by compariso
>More crap. The IP (and particularly TCP) algorithms are designed to accomodate
>  a *large* range of latency and bitrates at the data-link layer.  They work
>  very well over several orders of magnitude in both speed an latency.
>  From 1200 bits per second to well over 300Megabits per second.  From
>  a few seconds roundtrip time to a few dozen nanoseconds.

Where TCP/IP does not do so well is in things like one-character-at-a-time
type of traffic, such as telnet.  There are ways to deal with this, but I
have forgotten the RFC number at the moment.
--
 /***************************************************************************\
/ Phil Howard -- KA9WGN -- [e-mail]   |  Guns don't aim guns at  \
\ Lietuva laisva -- Brivu Latviju -- Eesti vabaks  |  people; CRIMINALS do!!  /
 \***************************************************************************/

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 91 20:57:48 GMT
From: theory.TC.Cornell.EDU![e-mail]
To: [e-mail]

References <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>
w
Subject : Re: AX.25 vs TCP/IP

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jon Gefaell) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Marcus Leech) writes:
>>
>>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH) writes:
>>|>
>>|> The IP protocols are designed for a full-duplex connection; they are extremely
>>Crap.  The IP protocols are specifically not designed for a particular
>>  datalink layer paradigm.  Consider the original ARPA experiments with
>>  Satellite-based IP and ALOHA.  They work *very well* on half-duplex links.
>>  Consider ETHERNET, which is half-duplex.
>
>Sounds right, but... Pls explain... It seems that experience has shown that
>full duplex operation improves SLIP (and any other serial asynchronous methods)
>throughput, at least from what I've read.

    Yes, that's true, and here's why.  TCP uses acknowledgements to
ensure reliablility.  This means that if you have data flowing downstream,
you have a stream of acknowledgements flowing back upstream to the sender.
Of course, the acknowledgements are much smaller than the data packets.
    Any protocol that uses acknowledgements is going to work better on
a full-duplex channel, including AX.25.  The TNC 2 clones do full-duplex,
believe it or not.  Grab your dual-band HT, find a buddy, and try it out.

>The HST high speed modems provided 'full duplex operation' via the combination
>of a 9600 BPS recieve (to the terminal) channel, and a 300 BPS send channel.
>
>These apparently proved to be less than useful. Switching to a V.32 link,
>which has 9600 tx/rx channels, performance was as expected given the data
>rate.
>
>What explains this? I suppose it's because there is a lot of bidirectional
>data flow in an IP link, and that the amount of traffic sent is enough to
>totally overwhelm the 300 BPS channel?

    Possibly.  With simple data transfer protocols (X/Y/ZMODEM, Kermit)
the upstream acknowledgement is typically very small: a few bytes.  So for
each 1K transmitted, you may get 1 byte worth of acknowledgement in the
other direction.
    With TCP, an acknowledgement is a full-blown IP/TCP packet, which
at its smallest, is about 40 bytes long. Seven ACKs per second and you've
filled up your 300 bps backchannel.

>Please, if you answer (and I hope you or someone will) conjecture on the
>send/recieve ratios to acheive adequate throughput in a variety of diferent
>environments (text terminal to host, Various Peer protocols, X, etc..)

    Very tough question to answer for the general case.  I started to
think about it, but my brain began to hurt.  Too many variables:  MTU of
the link (the maximum packet size), traffic patterns, etc.

--
=  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =
Andrew C. Payne, N8KEI        UUCP:  ...!cornell!batcomputer!payne
              INTERNET:  [e-mail]

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #177
******************************
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 91 04:30:03 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #178
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Mon, 15 Jul 91       Volume 91 : Issue 178

Today's Topics:
                (none)
        Error in my Packet<->Internet gateway posting
               Help with "uwm".
               packet radio FAQ 3 of 3
               RF LAN Questions

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 15 Jul 91 04:03:40 GMT
From: munnari.oz.au!manuel!csc.canberra.edu.au!echo![e-mail]
Subject: (none)
To: [e-mail]

I tried to mail this direct but it bounced.  (Sorry)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

In rec.radio.amateur.packet you write:


>Hello,

Hi,

>I'm trying to connect a pc running MSYS 1.11 to a pc running
>KA9Q using SLIP.

Seems to be a common situation.

>I think I know quite a bit about MSYS and have it configured for a
>1200 baud link. I have tried running MSYS on both systems and it
>works great. I would like to run KA9Q at one end.

Ok...  MSYS doesn't talk SLIP, you have to use KISS and AX25 over
the serial line.  I have an MSYS box running on an XT with
2 radio ports and a serial link to a SCO Xenix machine running 890421.1
NET (KA9Q) which also has a serial link to my PC/AT running 910618 PA0GRI
NOS (KA9Q).  All the links are setup as if they were normal 4800 baud
links to a KISS TNC.  It's slower than SLIP but still works ok, especially
if you tell msys that it is a full duplex link. :-)


>I remember someone else was working on this problem b4 and it would
>be easier for me to ask then to figure it out.
>I remember something about using Datagram mode in KA9Q's Net program

MSYS doesn't support Virtual Connect mode IP.  You have to use Datagram mode.

>If you have tried the previous and got it working tell me how!
>a copy of your autoexec.net would be helpful as the docs to KA9Q
>are not that easy to understand.

If you can't get it working, tell me and I'll mail you my AUTOEXEC.NET and
MSYS.OPT/MSYS.DO.


Carl,
[e-mail]
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 15 Jul 91 04:55:44 GMT
From: swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!pitt!w2xo![e-mail]
Subject: Error in my Packet<->Internet gateway posting
To: [e-mail]

In my posting on how to use my packet<->internet gateway, I
apparently made an error.

My packet radio address is: "W2XO.#WPA.PA.USA.NOAM" .

I left out the ".PA.". Gotta quit typing at 3am 8-) .

Thanks to those who called this to my attention.

-Jim , W2XO

------------------------------

Date: 15 Jul 91 05:00:55 GMT
From: swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!pitt!w2xo![e-mail]
Subject: Help with "uwm".
To: [e-mail]

I need to get to ve6mgs.ampr.org thru an internet host called "uwm"
in conjunction with our gateway activities. Is there some
well-know system on the internet that anyone is *sure* knows
about "uwm", because Pitt doesn't. Apparently "uwm" is a
major "ampr.org" gateway.

Thanks,
Jim, W2XO

------------------------------

Date: 15 Jul 91 04:26:25 GMT
From: sdd.hp.com!usc!apple![e-mail]
Subject: packet radio FAQ 3 of 3
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Steve Schallehn) writes:
>
>The KA9Q NOS program (also called NET) is the most commonly used
>version of TCP/IP in packet radio.  NOS originally was written
>for the PC compatible.  However, NOS has been ported to many
>different computers such as the Amiga, Macintosh, Unix System V,
>and others.

Actually, NOS (the newer version of Phil's software) has not been
ported to the Macintosh. The Mac version of the KA9Q package is based
on NET, Phil's earlier software.


Patty

--
===============================================================================
Patty Winter N6BIS                      What do they got? A lot of sand!
INTERNET: [e-mail]              We got a hot crustacean band!
UUCP: {decwrl,nsc,sun}!apple!winter     We got no troubles, life is de bubbles
AMPR.ORG: [44.4.0.44]                   Under the sea.
===============================================================================

------------------------------

Date: 15 Jul 91 02:31:14 GMT
From: sdd.hp.com!wuarchive!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu![e-mail]
Subject: RF LAN Questions
To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Dave Paradis) writes:

>Does anyone have information relating to the use of RF
>communications (particularily spread-spectrum) in a hosptial
>environment?  I'm particularily interested in:
>       - potential for interference with patient-care equipment
>       - susceptibility to EMI

Consider that many hospital security personnel have HT's.
--
 /***************************************************************************\
/ Phil Howard -- KA9WGN -- [e-mail]   |  Guns don't aim guns at  \
\ Lietuva laisva -- Brivu Latviju -- Eesti vabaks  |  people; CRIMINALS do!!  /
 \***************************************************************************/

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #178
******************************
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 91 04:30:05 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #179
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Tue, 16 Jul 91       Volume 91 : Issue 179

Today's Topics:
               Help with "uwm".
               KA9Q ON AN ETHERNET MAC
               MSYS forwarding question
             Packet-Radio Digest V91 #177
             Packet-Radio Digest V91 #178
             Set-UP on DEC VT101 (2 msgs)
            TM721 mod for dualband packet
               WA7MBL to NOS forwarding

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 15 Jul 91 14:06:58 GMT
From: swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!helios!cs.tamu.edu![e-mail]
Subject: Help with "uwm".
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jim Durham) writes:
|> I need to get to ve6mgs.ampr.org thru an internet host called "uwm"
|> in conjunction with our gateway activities. Is there some
|> well-know system on the internet that anyone is *sure* knows
|> about "uwm", because Pitt doesn't. Apparently "uwm" is a
|> major "ampr.org" gateway.
|>

I think you need the full name: {the following is a guess...}

Whois: ho uwm.
[No name] (WISC-CSD1-MILW)

   Hostname: UWM.EDU
   Address: 129.89.7.2,129.89.6.2
   System: MICROVAX-3200 running UNIX

   Coordinator:
      Olenchek, Jeffrey G.  (JGO)  [e-mail]
      [phone]

photon% nslookup
Default Server:  photon.cs.tamu.edu
Address:  128.194.2.3

> uwm.edu
Server:  photon.cs.tamu.edu
Address:  128.194.2.3

Non-authoritative answer:
Name:    uwm.edu
Address:  129.89.7.2

> set query=any
> uwm.edu
Server:  photon.cs.tamu.edu
Address:  128.194.2.3

Non-authoritative answer:
uwm.edu inet address = 129.89.7.2
uwm.edu inet address = 129.89.6.2

------------------------------

Date: 15 Jul 91 16:39:00 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: KA9Q ON AN ETHERNET MAC
To: [e-mail]

At the urging of a dos/ham friend I just downloaded MAC-Net 2.2and it looks
like a very impressive package for the ham packet switchers.

I'm not a ham but running a MAC II FX with a 3Com Ethernet card and have
MacTCP available and installed. My question is, Is possible to use MAC-Net
as a front end for a TCP/IP node.

I have just started reading the doc's that came with it and a quick perusal
of the Autoexec.net file gives me some hope that it might just be possible.

If there is anyone out there who has attempted such a feat I would greatly
appreciate any assistance in getting the package up and running.

Thanks,

Norm Steffen

[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 15 Jul 91 20:34:32 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MSYS forwarding question
To: [e-mail]

I'm having trouble getting the local MSYS system to forward mail to another BBS.

I sent a message using

    sp kb8ete @w7bkh.wy

but the l command shows no @BBS field, and the message never gets forwarded.

The destination call is a user of the local bbs, who is currently travelling.
Does MSYS override the @BBS I specify if the destination call has a home bbs
set? How can I get MSYS to accept the @BBS?

Robert Berger  N3EMO
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 15 Jul 91 15:56:02 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #177
To: [e-mail]

<...The TNC 2 clones do full-duplex,
believe it or not.  Grab your dual-band HT, find a buddy, and try it out...>

No need. Just make up a loopback connector, plug into the "radio" port on the
TNC and talk to yourself!

(Seriously tho', it's useful to sort out where faults lie, and when you're
first setting up - the fewer boxes to deal with,m the better!)

73, Hugh, G0CNR

------------------------------

Date: 15 Jul 91 23:21:52 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #178
To: [e-mail]

I just saw again the designator NOAM for i guess North America. This is
confusing for me I have alwasy understude that NA was the recognized
designator. Can someone enlighten me which is correct or is there a correct
designator?
73 de [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 15 Jul 91 20:09:55 GMT
From: swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!helios!rigel.tamu.edu![e-mail]
Subject: Set-UP on DEC VT101
To: [e-mail]

I use a DEC VT101 dumb terminal for packet as well as phoning into the campus
computer system.  I pretty much have figured out how to set up the thing for
each case, but I need some particulars.  Specifically, I need to know what
exactly each of the digits in the four groups along the bottom of the second
set-up screen affect.  I know they are just other set-up parms, but I dont know
what they are.  This important in as much as I want to try some new things with
the terminal, and it would be pretty much imperative to know these parms.

Therefore, if anyone has any info, has had experience with the vt101, or just
knows something, email me at the below address, or reply on the newsgroup.

thanks


Mark S. Whitsitt, N5RJF        Texas A&M University, Dept of Biochemistry
Bitnet:  MSW1633@TAMSIGMA                 College Station, Tx. 77843-2128
Internet:  [e-mail]                          [phone]
Packet:  N5RJF @ KE5HE.TX.USA.NA
   "You can't throw darts when you're empty, man" -- another Schadelism

------------------------------

Date: 16 Jul 91 04:40:34 GMT
From: usc!cs.utexas.edu!helios!summa.tamu.edu![e-mail]
Subject: Set-UP on DEC VT101
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (WHITSITT, MARK STEVEN) writes...
>
>Therefore, if anyone has any info, has had experience with the vt101, or just
>knows something, email me at the below address, or reply on the newsgroup.
>
>thanks
>

I have recvd several answers already.  Many thanks to those who so promptly
responded.  THe info is greatly appreciated!!

thanks


Mark S. Whitsitt, N5RJF        Texas A&M University, Dept of Biochemistry
Bitnet:  MSW1633@TAMSIGMA                 College Station, Tx. 77843-2128
Internet:  [e-mail]                          [phone]
Packet:  N5RJF @ KE5HE.TX.USA.NA
   "You can't throw darts when you're empty, man" -- another Schadelism

------------------------------

Date: 15 Jul 91 15:21:14 GMT
From: hpl-opus!hpnmdla![e-mail]
Subject: TM721 mod for dualband packet
To: [e-mail]

  For the sake of anyone out there using a Kenwood TM721 on packet who
would like to use it to run ports on 2M and 70 cm simultaneously I can
report that I have found a way to do this.

  Because both bands, including frequencies and rx/tx state, are
controlled by a serial bit stream from the cpu I had to find a way to
automatically push front panel buttons and "trick" it.  Additionally
some transmitter circuits are normally shared between the bands.
Kenwood appears to have stopped just short of making it a truly dual
band radio.

  It also had to be able to hold off transmitting when the alternate
band transmitter was busy.  This requires either using the SQUELCH line
(on my PK88's at least) or ORing the tx-busy signal with dcd and
redefining dcd to be a more generic "physical layer busy" signal.

  I don't know that there will be many desiring to use their TM721s this
way but if someone is interested I can give details.  It takes a few
additional IC's and some circuitry to push a front panel button but
seems to fit inside the box in the area above the 70 cm PA shield.  It
probably isn't for the fainthearted but shouldn't take more than a
couple of evenings to complete.


Glenn Elmore -N6GN-

N6GN @ K3MC
[e-mail]
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 16 Jul 91 04:34:34 GMT
From: news.hawaii.edu!mpg.phys.hawaii.edu![e-mail]
Subject: WA7MBL to NOS forwarding
To: [e-mail]

I am looking for some help for a friend who is trying to get his WA7MBL BBS
to forward mail to a system running NOS.  We've figured out how to handle the
connection/forwarding from NOS to WA7MBL already, we just need the reverse
process.

The biggest problem is getting WA7MBL to send a blank line upon connecting
with NOS so that NOS's prompt is transmitted back to the WA7MBL system.  What
do we need to do get WA7MBL to understand NOS's responses?

Tony
AH6BW

--
Antonio Querubin
[e-mail] / [e-mail] / [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 15 Jul 91 19:08:38 GMT
From: usc!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!cunews!bnrgate!bwdls61!bnr.ca![e-mail]
To: [e-mail]

References <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>
Subject : Re: AX.25 vs TCP/IP

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Phil Howard KA9WGN) writes:
|> Where TCP/IP does not do so well is in things like one-character-at-a-time
|> type of traffic, such as telnet.  There are ways to deal with this, but I
|> have forgotten the RFC number at the moment.
That actually has nothing to do with TCP, per se, but the TELNET protocol.
TELNETs that don't support LINEMODE, or that always insist on handling
  line-editing/echoing themselves will suffer when the underlying transport
  has high-latency.  Certain tweaks (like the nagle algorithm) can help you
  here, but only for fast typists.  No protocol I'm aware of can deal with
  single-character-at-a-time without introducing delay.  You either want
  efficient link utilization or low delay--you can't have both.
  There are protocols (LAT, for example) that "multiplex" several telnet-like
  connections into one virtual circuit.  But they also degenerate when
  there's only 1 "terminal" active within its timeout "window"--which is
  remarkably often.
--
Marcus Leech, 4Y11             Bell-Northern Research  |opinions expressed
[e-mail]                  P.O. Box 3511, Stn. C   |are my own, and not
[e-mail]         Ottawa, ON, CAN K1Y 4H7 |necessarily BNRs

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #179
******************************
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 91 04:30:07 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #180
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Wed, 17 Jul 91       Volume 91 : Issue 180

Today's Topics:
               G8BPQ Assistance
              KISS EPROM code for TNC-2
          Need MO, KS, CO or UT packet distribution
               Poor Mans Packet

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 16 Jul 91 12:07:58 GMT
From: swrinde!sdd.hp.com!caen!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!lll-winken!iggy.GW.Vitalink.COM!widener!dsinc!ub!ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu![e-mail]
Subject: G8BPQ Assistance
To: [e-mail]

I am setting up a remote location for packet switching to enhance the local
DX Packetcluster.  I wanted to use the G8BPQ package.  I have the 3.59
version running, although I still can not connecet with myself (present
belief is that a bad connection exists between the DRSI board and the radio).
To control the system, I intended to run PC Anywhere from my home for
various maintenance functions.  The system running the G8BPQ is a Novell
Network as well.

Here are the questions:

1.  Will G8BPQ exit to a DOS shell while I run PC anywhere to prepare for
the connection?  If not, what software package will perform this task
adequately to allow the system to digipeat all those who need it.

2.  Will the DRSI board operate with the Ethernet board installed?  My
preliminary experimentation indicates there is a problem.

3.  Lastly, is there a updated version of G8BPQ or other software that
might accomplish all my requirements.

Respond directly to me via e-mail.  Any reference to someone with
experience with G8BPQ will be helpful also.  73, Dave.

------------------------------

Date: 17 Jul 91 01:26:00 GMT
From: news.hawaii.edu!mpg.phys.hawaii.edu![e-mail]
Subject: KISS EPROM code for TNC-2
To: [e-mail]

Does anyone know where I can download the KISS EPROM code for a TNC-2?
Intel hex format or a COM file would be fine.  Thanks!

Tony
AH6BW

--
Antonio Querubin
[e-mail] / [e-mail] / [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 14 Jul 91 22:53:58 GMT
From: pilchuck!ssc![e-mail]
Subject: Need MO, KS, CO or UT packet distribution
To: [e-mail]

I have some hams who are both on packet and either MCI Mail or
Usenet helping me distribute a couple of bulletins every week.
In a couple of weeks, we will be losing N0EYE in Kansas from
our little network.

Can you help us?  If you have Usenet mail access or an MCI Mail
account that you can get to on Saturdays, and you have access
to VHF packet, send me some email if you are in Missouri, Kansas,
Colorado or Utah.

Send to [e-mail] or [e-mail]


Tad Cook
Seattle, WA
Packet: KT7H @ N7DUO.WA.USA.NA
Phone: [phone]
MCI Mail: 3288544
Telex: 6503288544 MCI UW
USENET:...uw-beaver!sumax!amc-gw!ssc!tad
or, [e-mail]
or, [e-mail]
or, [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 16 Jul 91 17:33:19 GMT
From: intran![e-mail]
Subject: Poor Mans Packet
To: [e-mail]

Anyone using PMP that is in 73 Magazine?  Looks great!  Got my check in the mail
this morning.

What is PMP?

Uses your PC for a TNC, needs a little hardware (one chip).  Connects to Parrallel
port, and serial port for power.  Uses software on disk (not ROM).  Sounds like
what a bunch of folks have been asking about.

Get the magazine (August 1991).

Tommy B.
WD0EIB

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #180
******************************
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 91 04:30:06 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #181
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Thu, 18 Jul 91       Volume 91 : Issue 181

Today's Topics:
               CPU enhanced 8530 cards?
             Looking for HF TCP/IP links
              Poor Mans Packet (2 msgs)

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 17 Jul 91 21:23:42 GMT
From: mvb.saic.com!unogate!orion.oac.uci.edu!usc!samsung!umich!umeecs!msi.umn.edu!noc.MR.NET!uc!nachos.SSESCO.com!SSESCO.com![e-mail]
Subject: CPU enhanced 8530 cards?
To: [e-mail]

Just wondering what ISA bus cards currently exist or are being worked on...
that have a processor on board to handle buffering, interrupt service
and host transfers for a couple 8530s ?  Is anyone working on something
like this?   I envision possibly a Z80 or Z180, a couple 8530s, and some
RAM..  the thing would have soft firmware that would be downloaded by
the host at initialization time.  It would transfer packets to the host
through a parallel channel (either i/o mapped or shared memory) and
only interrupt the host when an entire packet is available rather than
for every single byte (!).

Does this describe a DRSI card?  I know nothing about them...

Chris

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 91 20:06:16 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Looking for HF TCP/IP links
To: [e-mail]

Hello all,

I am looking for HF TCP/IP links. PA2AGA-1 [44.137.32.61] is QRV on
14.095 MHz USB, but see very little TCP/IP activity there.

73 de Adam, PA2AGA.

------------------------------

Date: 17 Jul 91 11:22:17 GMT
From: uvaarpa!murdoch!turing![e-mail]
Subject: Poor Mans Packet
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Tom B.) writes:
>Anyone using PMP that is in 73 Magazine?  Looks great!  Got my check in the mail
>this morning.

Hmmm, It sure looks interesting. I'm gonna build it. 73 mag mentions it's
available via Internet, I assume that means this internet... Anyone have
a site reference for it? I'll check Archie, but please let me know if you
know where it is. I doubt Archie will have it listed yet. If you don't know
where to find it, but you have it, or can get it from the 73 BBS, or wherever
please put it somewheres on the landline Internet.

>Tommy B.
>WD0EIB


tnx, es 73!
--
  <>===============================<>=============================<>========<>
  || Jon Gefaell, Systems Engineer || [e-mail] ||  \     ||
  ||  Data  Communications  Group  || HAM-KD4CQY  Grid Sq. FM08BR ||   \    ||
  ||  Information  Technology and  || [phone] [phone] ||   /\   ||
  ||  Communications.  Univ of VA  || Lat/Lon 38 04 06N/78 03 53W ||  /  \  ||
  <>===============================<>=============================<>========<>

------------------------------

Date: 17 Jul 91 14:21:42 GMT
From: swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!helios!cs.tamu.edu![e-mail]
Subject: Poor Mans Packet
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jon Gefaell) writes:

|> available via Internet, I assume that means this internet... Anyone have
|> a site reference for it?

anonymous ftp to csseq.cs.tamu.edu, in directory ham-radio. source & binary
in pmp*.zip

Willis N5SZF

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #181
******************************
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 91 04:30:04 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #182
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Fri, 19 Jul 91       Volume 91 : Issue 182

Today's Topics:
             9600 baud packet for J. Blow
           FCC Rules regarding spectral containment
      Flea at MIT - Cambridge, MA - Sunday July 21, 1991
             Looking for info on Pactor ?
            What happened to the MIR BBS?

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 18 Jul 91 23:30:00 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: 9600 baud packet for J. Blow
To: [e-mail]

Hello to all:

I just got into packet a few months ago after I found NET/Mac on the
internet.  TCP is great over the radio (I did have to learn ax25, too!)
but I would like to go faster than 1200 baud.  Since I'm not too adept
at modifying tranceivers and I haven't seen any high-speed packet cards
for my Mac I was looking at the Kantronics Data Engine/DVR2-2 combo
with a 9600 baud modem in the Data Engine.  Has anybody had any experience
with either of these machines?  I'm also worried about whether this modem
will exchange data with another 9600 baud modem of a different type. Is
9600 baud *9600 baud*???  What about upgrade paths for higher speed modems?

Thanks in advance...........

jan.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jan Anthony Barglowski                  EMail:  [e-mail]
Visualization Lab, Code 2724                    [e-mail]
Naval Weapons Center                    Packet: kc6uth@wa6ybn.#socal.ca.us.na
China Lake, CA 93555                    IP:     [44.17.0.6]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 17 Jul 91 19:58:43 GMT
From: GTE.COM![e-mail]
Subject: FCC Rules regarding spectral containment
To: [e-mail]

Does anyone have a copy of the FCC Rules handy?  I need to know the permissible
data rates on the VHF/UHF bands (50 MHz and above).  I had them around here
somewhere but misplaced them.

Do the rules state or does anyone know of any standards (suggested by
coordinating bodies, etc) for sidelobe levels/adjacent channel protection
ratio, etc?

Thanks in advance,
Dave KM3T
[e-mail]
617-455-5704 (days)     508-393-5201 (evenings)

------------------------------

Date: 19 Jul 91 04:16:36 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Flea at MIT - Cambridge, MA - Sunday July 21, 1991
To: [e-mail]

I know this is late but the the copy AD1C tried posting earlier just seems to
have disapeared,  Sorry if some of you get duplicate coppies.
                    73 W1GSL
This coming Sunday the next...

***** 50 cent buyers discount with hardcopy of this notice ********

COMPUTERS - ELECTRONICS - HAM RADIO - COMPUTERS - ELECTRONICS

          FLEA  all SUMMER at MIT
           Sunday, July 21, 1991
             9AM-2PM

Come to the city for a great flea - plenty of free parking.

    MIT's  electronics and ham radio flea will take
    place on the third Sunday of each month this summer,
    April thru October.

    There is tailgate space for over 400 sellers and
    free, off-street parking for >1000 cars!

    Buyers admission is $1.50 (you get 50c off if
    you're lucky enough to have a copy of our add)
    and sellers spaces are $8.00-each at the gate
    or $5.00 if mailed by the preceding 5th.

    The flea will be held at the corner of Albany and
    Main streets in Cambridge; right in the Kendall
    Square area from 9AM to 2PM, with sellers set-up
    time starting at 7AM.

    !! RAIN or SHINE !!  Have no fear of rain, a covered
    tailgate area is available for all sellers (6'8" clearance).

    Talk-in: 146.52 and W1XM/R-449.725/444.725 (PL 114.8/2A).

    Sponsors: MIT Electronics Research Society
          MIT UHF Repeater Association (W1XM)
          MIT Radio Society (W1MX)
          Harvard Wireless Club (W1AF)

    For more info / advanced reservations 617 253 3776

******** 50 cent  buyers discount with hard copy of this notice ************

------------------------------

Date: 18 Jul 91 13:54:49 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Looking for info on Pactor ?
To: [e-mail]

I recently saw info on "Pactor" - a new mode of digital communications
for poor HF paths. The Hardware and protacol is from Germany I believe.
The controller is called a "PTC" (Pactor terminal controller).
I only have limited info on the new controller and would appreciate
it if someone could post more information about Pactor to the net.
73,
Rich
rharel@fab8%sc.intel.com

------------------------------

Date: 18 Jul 91 15:33:32 GMT
From: nosc!dog.ee.lbl.gov!hellgate.utah.edu!caen!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ncar!asuvax!anasaz!qip![e-mail]
Subject: What happened to the MIR BBS?
To: [e-mail]

I have not detected MIR on 145.55 packet for a couple of days now.
Before that the BBS turned up frequently on that frequency. Anyone
know why it isn't on now? (yes, I have checked and there have been
numerous orbital passes during the time that I have been missing MIR).

--
John Moore HAM:NJ7E/CAP:T-Bird 381 {ames!ncar!noao!asuvax,mcdphx}!anasaz!john
USnail: 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale,AZ 85253 anasaz![e-mail]
Voice: [phone]        Wishful Thinking: Long palladium, Short Petroleum
Opinion: Support ALL of the bill of rights, INCLUDING the 2nd amendment!

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #182
******************************
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 91 04:30:09 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #183
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Sat, 20 Jul 91       Volume 91 : Issue 183

Today's Topics:
               CPU enhanced 8530 cards?
       FAQ re: W2XO Internet<->Packet Gateway and PBBS
           FCC Rules regarding spectral containment
             Looking for info on Pactor ?
            Maximum data rates & sidelobes
                Packet Options
             PK232MBX Strangeness
              WAMPES Information

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 19 Jul 91 16:52:55 GMT
From: mcsun!hp4nl!nikhefk![e-mail]
Subject: CPU enhanced 8530 cards?
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Chris Elmquist) writes:
 >Just wondering what ISA bus cards currently exist or are being worked on...
 >that have a processor on board to handle buffering, interrupt service
 >and host transfers for a couple 8530s ?  Is anyone working on something
 >like this?   I envision possibly a Z80 or Z180, a couple 8530s, and some
 >RAM..  the thing would have soft firmware that would be downloaded by
 >the host at initialization time.  It would transfer packets to the host
 >through a parallel channel (either i/o mapped or shared memory) and
 >only interrupt the host when an entire packet is available rather than
 >for every single byte (!).
I known a few projects, but sofar I known there are only prototypes.
But there is one board that is based on a 68302. It has 3 highspeed
channels and 2 medium speed channels. It is build on a multilayer board
and isn't cheap ($~800.=) The company has changed there name. I remember
me only the old name Greace.

 >Does this describe a DRSI card?  I know nothing about them...
The DRSI hasn't a microprocessor on the board. On the DSRI board is
a single Z8530, a Z8536 (2 timers as 32 dividers for 8530 full duplex
mode and 1 timer as interrupt timer) and a 1200 baud modem.

You can find a lot of packet radio publications in the proceedings
of the Computer Networking Conferences of the ARRL. You can order
them from the ARRL (See QST). You can find my OptoPcScc in the
proceedings of the 8th CNC. This is a four channel IBMPC board without
processor. It is based on 2 * Z8530.

It is nice to have a board with his own processor, but for low or medium
speed you can use the processor of the PC.


Henk PA0HZP

------------------------------

Date: 19 Jul 91 03:22:42 GMT
From: mvb.saic.com!unogate!orion.oac.uci.edu!usc!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!pitt!w2xo![e-mail]
Subject: FAQ re: W2XO Internet<->Packet Gateway and PBBS
To: [e-mail]

I have had so many inquiries about how my gateway works that I thought
it time to post an explanation here.

The gateway is part of my packet PBBS for Unix. The PBBS is several
years old now and is up to version 3.96 at present. It is a full-blown
PBBS and does all the usual stuff like Forwarding and Reverse
Forwarding and Hierarchial addresses, etc. However, since it runs
under Unix, it is able to efficiently handle multiple users and
also allow local access and file manipulation using the normal
unix tools. For instance, forwarding and mail beacons are
initiated using cron and mail is kept as a normal unix ascii
file so that it can be handled by more, cp, head, tail, etc.

The bbs runs as a child process of KA9Qs 'net'. I am using
a very old version because I haven't yet had the opportunity
to put the IPC communications stuff into NOS. As a matter of fact,
I had planned, rather, to go the route of an AX25 driver for
unix to handle packet radio using the built-in Berkely networking
stuff in unix instead of modifying NOS. Anyway, at the moment,
its 890421.1A (N3CVL Unix Test version) with my IPC code. There
are two ax25 calls specified, one for the PBBS and one for the
normal 'net' stuff. When someone does an AX25 connect to the
bbs call (W2XO-0 in my case), 'net' spawns an instance of XOBBS
and sets up IPC using Sys V message queues (which are also available
in Ultrix and some other Unix versions). Netrom and TCP/IP packets
are handled at the other call, (in my case, W2XO-1 ).

The gateway is pretty simple with this setup. A 'daemon' program
(xoscanmail) scans the mailbox "/usr/spool/mail/bbs", parsing
the mail found there into the format I use internally in the
bbs mail spooling directories and places the mail in ~bbs/temp.
All mail incoming from any of the PBBSs also gets put into
~bbs/temp. Now, another 'daemon' (domail), goes scans this
mail, checking it against several files, including "usenet.dst",
"fwd.xo", "hadr",and "dist". "Usenet.dst" contains the call letters
of every known ham with an internet address. If "domail" finds
a match between the "To" field of the packet mail and the
"usenet.dst" file, it then just hands the message off to
the regular unix mailer (Sendmail in my case), and away it
goes out the internet, using a second set of aliases in /etc/aliases.
If no match is found in "usenet.dst", then a search is made of
"dist", which is a list of the packet distribution lists like
"ALLUS" and etc. If a match is found between the "@bbs" field and
a line in "dist", then the mail is sent to a suitable packet
PBBS for forwarding to the packet PBBS network. If neither of
these pan out, then a check is made for hierarchial addresses in
"hadr" and finally the "fwd.xo" file is looked at, which is a database
of known packet bbses for forwarding. Mail known to be local is
then movded to ~bbs/mail and mail to be forwarded is moved to
~bbs/fwding. Normal instances of the bbs read mail from ~bbs/mail and
a special instance of the bbs (the forwarder) reads the stuff in
~bbs/fwding and sends it out on the packet network.

So, that is basically how the gateway (and the bbs) work, for those
that asked (aren't you sorry you asked?). 8-) .

There is also a function in the bbs to read netnews (suitably
scanned for no-no's). Another plus of Unix.

Sorry to be longwinded, but I guess there was enough interest
to warrant using a little bandwidth here to explain.

If you want a copy of the code (bugs are free also), it is
on "vax.cs.pitt.edu" in the pub/ka9q directory for anonymous
ftp. The version there may be a little stale, since I don't
have but a 2400 baud link to cs.pitt.edu and it's tedious to
keep updating and I'm lazy. 8-). You will need both the
modified KA9Q 'net' and the bbs. The file names are net.xo.tar.Z
and xobbs39.tar.Z .

There are a few people running the code , but it is tricky
to compile on the PC versions of Unix and not that many folks
have unix boxes at home ! Don Bennett ([e-mail])
has it running on a PC.

Hope this is helpful..

Jim Durham, W2XO

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jul 91 00:00:46 GMT
From: usc!sdd.hp.com!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!dali.cs.montana.edu!milton!sumax!polari![e-mail]
Subject: FCC Rules regarding spectral containment
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Dave Pascoe) writes:
>Does anyone have a copy of the FCC Rules handy?  I need to know the permissible
>data rates on the VHF/UHF bands (50 MHz and above).  I had them around here
>somewhere but misplaced them.

97.307 table and (f)

(5) 6 and 2 meters  - 19.2 Kbaud  or 20 Khz
(6) 1.25 and .7 meters  -  56 Kbaud or 100 Khz
(7) above  - no limits

(Just found the copy of the table in my official 1989 edition is
mangled and had to use the arrl book.  )

>
>Do the rules state or does anyone know of any standards (suggested by
>coordinating bodies, etc) for sidelobe levels/adjacent channel protection
>ratio, etc?

97.3 (a) (8)  Bandwidth
The width of a frequency band outside of which the mean power of the total
emission is attenuated at least 26 dB below the mean power of the total
emission, including allowanced for transmitter drift and doppler shift.


Mark Zenier  [e-mail]  [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 19 Jul 91 17:01:16 GMT
From: mcsun!hp4nl!nikhefk![e-mail]
Subject: Looking for info on Pactor ?
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (RICHARD HAREL) writes:
 >I recently saw info on "Pactor" - a new mode of digital communications
 >for poor HF paths. The Hardware and protacol is from Germany I believe.
 >The controller is called a "PTC" (Pactor terminal controller).
 >I only have limited info on the new controller and would appreciate
 >it if someone could post more information about Pactor to the net.

I have this information only in German. I can read it, but not a good
translator. If you want the German version posted or do the translation
send me an email. (The size is about 30K text.)

Henk, PA0HZP

------------------------------

Date: 19 Jul 91 14:07:07 GMT
From: hsdndev!bunny![e-mail]
Subject: Maximum data rates & sidelobes
To: [e-mail]

Could someone with a copy of the FCC Amateur Rules let me know what the
maximum permissible data rates are on the bands above 220 MHz?  Also, what
are the stated rules for sidelobe containment on the bands above 220 MHz?
If there is no rule for some bands are there suggested channel spacings or
minimum sidelobe suppression levels on some of those bands?

Please e-mail responses....looks like it's time to pick up a copy of the rules
again...


--
Dave Pascoe   |  [e-mail]
KM3T          |  Tel: [phone] (days)  [phone] (evenings)

------------------------------

Date: 19 Jul 91 15:44:00 GMT
From: mvb.saic.com!unogate!orion.oac.uci.edu!usc!aero-c!gumby.dsd.trw.com!meltami.dsd.trw.com![e-mail]
Subject: Packet Options
To: [e-mail]

I recently (5 days ago) got my technician ticket in the mail. 8-)

I am very interested in getting into packet and I would like some suggestions
on a TNC.

Questions I have are:
  o  What about 2400bps models?  Do enough people have them that it is
     worth it to get 2400?
  o  I am interested in getting a model for the least amount of money possible.
     Any recommendations on what I could get?

Thanks very much!  Steve Hubbell KC6YHN
           [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 19 Jul 91 03:25:51 GMT
From: hpcc05!hp-ptp![e-mail]
Subject: PK232MBX Strangeness
To: [e-mail]

I have a PK-232MBX with up to date firmware and drive it
from a IBM-PC running the recent (last 3 months) revision
of PC Pakratt. I have noticed that while receiving packets,
if I hit the "End" key to show what other users have been
heard (I think it invokes Mheard while in host mode) that
the packets I am sending appear to be sent with different
mark and space frequencies only while the screen showing
stations heard is up.

Am I crazy? Has anyone else noticed this? It's hard for
me to imagine that PC software could do that unless its
changing to the HF shift at the same time it is doing the
Mheard.

I'll get version numbers of the stuff if anyone has time
to verify what I am seeing on their system.

Brian Perkin
N6RSW

------------------------------

Date: 19 Jul 91 12:56:51 GMT
From: mcsun!ukc!pyrltd!root44!praxis!praxis![e-mail]
Subject: WAMPES Information
To: [e-mail]

Hi!

Could anyone send me some information on the German WAMPES packet
system/protocol ?  What does it support, what hardware does it run on,
does it have any unusual/interseting features etc ?

Ein Antwort in Deutsch geht auch prima!

73.

Mike
****
.............................................................................
|                                                | Michael Chace            |
| e-mail   :  [e-mail]                 | PraXis Systems           |
|                                                | Manvers Street           |
| AMPRNET:  [e-mail]   [44.131.20.3] | Bath,  Avon              |
| AX.25  :  G6DHU @ G6DHU-2 or G6DHU @ GB7IMB    | BA1 1PX           UK     |
| Phone  :  (44) [0]225 444700                   |                          |
.............................................................................

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #183
******************************
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 91 04:30:04 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #184
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Sun, 21 Jul 91       Volume 91 : Issue 184

Today's Topics:
                 *pmp
              Corrupt PMP files?
               CPU enhanced 8530 cards?
             MFJ TNC Command Set

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 21 Jul 91 10:23:15 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: *pmp
To: [e-mail]

Hi all,

 Willis N5SZf wrote:

> anonymous ftp to csseq.cs.tamu.edu, in directory ham-radio. source & binary
> in pmp*.zip
>
> Willis N5SZF

 I don't know whether it should belong here but anyway I downloaded the
 files from csseq.cs.tamu.edu but encounter difficulties unzipping them.
 I tried PKUNZIP, PKZMENU, and UNZIP and all reported faulty .ZIP files.
 Is there something special about these files? I normally have no
 problems unzipping files from Internet sites. Any suggestions?

           Thanks in advance

           DF2KW Guido Kueppers

 e-mail: [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jul 91 04:31:10 GMT
From: beguine![e-mail]
Subject: Corrupt PMP files?
To: [e-mail]

I recently downloaded the files PMP10.zip and PMPSRC.ZIP Both seem to be
corrupt, even PKZIPFIX doesn't help. Has anyone else had this problem?
I am very excited about this program and circuit and would like to learn more
so I am planning on getting a copy of the latest 73 mag.

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
    Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
       internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 128.109.157.30

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jul 91 05:10:56 GMT
From: epic![e-mail]
Subject: CPU enhanced 8530 cards?
To: [e-mail]

My personal opinion is that if you want to plug an HDLC board into a PC,
then there's very little reason to put a CPU on that board - just use
the main processor. It's cheaper and much easier to program. A board
like the PackeTen is great for standalone applications, but it's
a waste to plug it into a PC - use DMA HDLC boards like the Packet Twin,
the PI board or the DMASYNC, and run NOS on the PC.

This issue parallels a long raging debate within the regular Internet
community about the usefulness (or uselessness) of communication
coprocessors.  Long and painful experience has shown that:

1. The host usually ends up speaking a protocol with the coprocessor
that is at least as complicated as those the coprocessor is speaking
to the outside world, thus canceling the main argument for the
coprocessor in the first place (offloading the supposedly
CPU-intensive protocol processing tasks from the main CPU.) Even if
host/coprocessor communication were free, almost any meaningful
application-level processing of a block of data will take many more CPU
instructions than those required to run the TCP and IP protocols on
the same block of data.  "Offloading" the protocol processing to a
coprocessor can therefore increase system performance by only a very
small factor.

2. Coprocessors usually require highly specialized development
environments that just aren't as complete or as available as those for
general purpose systems. And they're often a pain to use, e.g., requiring
the burning of EPROMs (or an EPROM simulator).

3. As a specialized niche market, coprocessors don't evolve as quickly
or exploit economies of scale as quickly as mainstream CPUs.  This can
easily result in the absurd situation where a 33 MHz Intel 80486
spends most of its time idling, waiting for a 4 MHz Z-80 coprocessor
to finish its task.

Many of these points are due to Van Jacobson of LBL, who has campaigned
long and hard for keep-it-simple-stupid Ethernet interfaces. He gave
an excellent tutorial on this theme at the 1990 SIGCOMM conference,
perhaps he has made these points elsewhere by now.

Phil

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jul 91 16:22:03 GMT
From: vtserf![e-mail]
Subject: MFJ TNC Command Set
To: [e-mail]

I recently acquired a MFJ-1270B TNC 2 Packet Radio Controller.
The owner's manual I received does not contain a complete
description of the TNC commands supported by this device.

The level of firmware is:
      MFJ ENTERPRISES INC TNC-2
      AX.25 Level 2 Version 2.0 + FAX
      Release 1.2.7  10/13/90 - 32K RAM
      Checksum $75

The manual does not contain any information pertaining to
the mailbox,fax and bbs capabilities.  I plan to write MFJ
requesting a newer owner's manual.  But I would appreciate
it if anyone familiar with this equipment could send me a
brief description of the mailbox/bbs command set.  I have
received mail (the STA LED is flashing) but I don't know
the command to read it.

Thanks,

Bill Plymale
[e-mail]

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #184
******************************
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 91 04:30:03 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #185
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Mon, 22 Jul 91       Volume 91 : Issue 185

Today's Topics:
              Finally got U5MIR on VOICE
             MFJ TNC Command Set
            What happened to the MIR BBS?

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 21 Jul 91 12:45:20 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Finally got U5MIR on VOICE
To: [e-mail]

I got a phone call from an excited AH6HU this morning.  He said that U7MIR
called him on voice right after AH6HU had sent a connect packet to the PMS.
He went on to say that there would be a 70 degree pass at 11 pm (0900 Z).

At the predicted time, KA6NEI and I were pinging away on 146.55, and we
both managed to get a connect with the PMS.  Half way through the orbit
(and in the middle of my attempt to upload a short message) U5MIR came up
on voice, saying "This is U5MIR."  Both KA6NEI and myself managed to work
him on voice.  I was on the phone with AH6IO in Waikiki at the time, and
he could hear U5MIR on a 2AT handheld with a rubber duck antenna!

So, looks like these guys are going to be on voice mode more often than
Musa (U2MIR) was, just like they said they would.

Oh, the equipment I used was:  Yaesu FT727 HT, 20 watt "brick" amp, 110 feet
RG8X, and a vertical J-pole at 100 feet.

Sure is nice to live in Hawaii!

Aloha,
  John KJ9U

------------------------------

Date: 22 Jul 91 04:23:59 GMT
From: sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!rex!rouge!pc.usl.edu![e-mail]
Subject: MFJ TNC Command Set
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bill Plymale) writes:
>I recently acquired a MFJ-1270B TNC 2 Packet Radio Controller.
>The owner's manual I received does not contain a complete
>description of the TNC commands supported by this device.
>
>The level of firmware is:
>      Release 1.2.7  10/13/90 - 32K RAM
>      Checksum $75

Bill, MFJ includes a FAST-START booklet which describes the commands added
since 1.1.4, which is where the owner's manual stops.  Briefly, you enable
the mailbox with 'mailbox on' and read or process using the SYSOP command.
Use the H(elp) command to list the mbox commands, and exit with ^C.
'mailled on' will enable flashing STA when you have mail waiting.

This release (1.2.7) has a BUG in kiss mode that leads to random p-persistence
(slot values).  If you plan to use KISS mode I recommend you replace the
eprom with TAPR 1.1.7b.  You can ftp it, for example, from pc.usl.edu;
it's pub/ham/tapr117b.arc.  But, you'll lose mailbox and fax capabilities.

73,

--
-- James Dugal, N5KNX           Internet: [e-mail]
Associate Director              Ham packet: n5knx@k5arh
Computing Center                US Mail: PO Box 42770  Lafayette, LA  70504
University of Southwestern LA.  Tel. [phone]       U.S.A.

------------------------------

Date: 21 Jul 91 15:26:44 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: What happened to the MIR BBS?
To: [e-mail]

It's possible that the cosmonauts turned off the ham gear during
their rendezvous with the Progress M-8 supply rocket.  This seems likely
in view of the near-miss that occurred with one of the previous supply rockets
a few months ago.

Aloha,
  John KJ9U

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #185
******************************
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 91 04:30:04 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #186
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Wed, 24 Jul 91       Volume 91 : Issue 186

Today's Topics:
                *pmp (3 msgs)
         Can one logon to ethernet sites via packet?
                  CPU & 8530
            For Sale: Icom IC-745
            MFJ TNC Command Set - Resolved
             Neophyte packet info wanted
            Poor Man's Packet FAQ
                 TAPR catalog
      u*ix, and terminal emulations .. a request for in
            USING NET UNDER MINIX

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 22 Jul 91 21:28:52 GMT
From: sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!kilroy![e-mail]
Subject: *pmp
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Guido Kueppers) writes:
>Hi all,
>
> Willis N5SZf wrote:
>> anonymous ftp to csseq.cs.tamu.edu, in directory ham-radio. source & binary
>> in pmp*.zip
>>
>> Willis N5SZF
>
> I don't know whether it should belong here but anyway I downloaded the
> files from csseq.cs.tamu.edu but encounter difficulties unzipping them.
> I tried PKUNZIP, PKZMENU, and UNZIP and all reported faulty .ZIP files.
> Is there something special about these files? I normally have no
> problems unzipping files from Internet sites. Any suggestions?
>
>                   Thanks in advance
>                   DF2KW Guido Kueppers

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one with problems.  Now that Guido has
confirmed my suspicions, I believe the files are corrupt.  I've done ftp
before and I tried ascii,binary,tenex,etc.  It doesn't work on any file
mode.  I tried calling 73's BBS but the phone just rings.  Anybody else
have a copy?

Cliff - KA6JRG
----------------------------------------+--------------------------------------
Email:  [e-mail]    |     [e-mail]
    [e-mail]      |     [e-mail]
    [e-mail]          |
----------------------------------------+--------------------------------------
MaBell: [phone] - off.   [phone] - alt.   [phone] - lab.

------------------------------

Date: 23 Jul 91 02:46:06 GMT
From: swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!helios![e-mail]
Subject: *pmp
To: [e-mail]

Mea Culpa!  Looks like the first set of files I put up for pmp were corrupt.
As of 2130 CDT they should be OK.

Anonymous ftp to csseq.cs.tamu.edu, directory ham-radio.

Please email [e-mail] if you have problems (or if it works!).

As an aside, we're trying to keep an assortment of ham related files on
that system.  We currently have some ROSE s/w, as well as the current
question pool.  The only version of NOS is one (slightly) modified to
support IP access control.
Suggestions/comments are welcome.

Cheers,
 Willis n5szf

------------------------------

Date: 23 Jul 91 08:07:04 GMT
From: mcsun!cernvax![e-mail]
Subject: *pmp
To: [e-mail]

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Cliff Yamamoto) writes:

>I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one with problems.  Now that Guido has
>confirmed my suspicions, I believe the files are corrupt.  I've done ftp
>before and I tried ascii,binary,tenex,etc.  It doesn't work on any file
>mode.  I tried calling 73's BBS but the phone just rings.  Anybody else
>have a copy?

>Cliff - KA6JRG

Why not try anonymous FTP from helios.tn.cornell.edu

    /pub/pmp10.zip          Binaries and documentation
    /pub/pmpsrc10.zip       Complete source code (Turbo C 2.0)

I tried here the other day without any problems.
73 de Frode, LA2RL/HB9CHL

**************************************************************************
*       Frode Weierud           Phone   :       [phone]            *
*       CERN, SL                Fax     :       41 22 7823676            *
*       CH-1211 Geneva  23      E-mail  :       [e-mail]    *
*       Switzerland                        or   [e-mail]   *
**************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: 23 Jul 91 03:35:38 GMT
From: orion.oac.uci.edu!ucivax!jarthur!nntp-server.caltech.edu![e-mail]
Subject: Can one logon to ethernet sites via packet?
To: [e-mail]

I am posting this query for a friend:

He has a 386 MSDos machine, and is a licensed HAM.  He is quite a hacker, so
complicated scheme wouldn't intimidate him.

He would like to be able to log onto a Sparc on ethernet from his machine
in order to send/receive mail and read net news.  He has yet to buy a packet
modem, so any info what modem to buy will also be appreciated.

Thank you for your help,
--Glenn Brown.

------------------------------

Date: 24 Jul 91 02:13:23 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: CPU & 8530
To: [e-mail]

In surplus here we found a lot of cards for PC (ISA / AT Bus)
with 4 8530 , 80186 and 2*62256 static RAM .
I have not the card in my hands now but it has a model ACE+ .
It has also a USA telephone also that i dont have it now but i can
find it. If someone want it , ask for it.
I ask the local dealer ( they stop to support it now ) they told me
that they have drivers for 3 UNIX (sco,xenix and a another one)
for asy lines (terminals) not for packet ...
i have not the sircuit diagram but the 1488,1489 dos not support
a lot of lines i think.
73 de George SV1BDS
E-mail : [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 22 Jul 91 14:50:16 GMT
From: ncrcom!ncrstp!npdiss1![e-mail]
Subject: For Sale: Icom IC-745
To: [e-mail]

I am selling my IC-745 for $650. I haven't used for about half a year
and don't have time to ham as much as I'd like.  This rig is
absolutely mint with very low transmit time.  I baby'd it whenever I
used it, but I mostly used it for shortwave reception.  Leave mail
if interested.


--
Chuck Rissmeyer  - [e-mail]
KE0VG            - KE0VG @ WB0GDB.mn.usa.na.earth
CCS              - NPD PM&S  (Product Team) (612) 638/I652/-7669

------------------------------

Date: 22 Jul 91 12:37:26 GMT
From: vtserf![e-mail]
Subject: MFJ TNC Command Set - Resolved
To: [e-mail]



------------------------------

Date: 23 Jul 91 04:08:27 GMT
From: sdd.hp.com!think.com!mintaka!churchy.gnu.ai.mit.edu![e-mail]
Subject: Neophyte packet info wanted
To: [e-mail]

Hi there.

I know nothing whatsoever about packet radio.  I'm interested in using it
to get an IP connection between two Unix machines, one at my home and one
at my work (about 5 city blocks distance).

Can someone please tell me where to find general information about packet
radio, where to get equipment, what sort of throughput and reliability I
can expect for what cost, etc.

Thanks much!
--
    Roland McGrath
    Free Software Foundation, Inc.
[e-mail], uunet!ai.mit.edu!roland

------------------------------

Date: 22 Jul 91 23:09:30 GMT
From: theory.TC.Cornell.EDU![e-mail]
Subject: Poor Man's Packet FAQ
To: [e-mail]

PMP is becoming a FAQ.

The latest version of Poor Man's Packet (August, 1991 _73_) can be snagged
via anonymous FTP from helios.tn.cornell.edu in /pub.  There are two files:
pmp10.zip (executable and docs), and pmpsrc10.zip (full source code).
This host (helios) will always have the latest version of PMP.

Many people have been reporting the PMP .ZIP files on ccseq.cs.tamu.edu (?)
as corrupted.  I suggest you try getting PMP from helios instead.

If you have any problems, questions, or suggestions:  drop me e-mail.

--
=  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =
Andrew C. Payne, N8KEI        UUCP:  ...!cornell!batcomputer!payne
              INTERNET:  [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 23 Jul 91 19:56:30 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: TAPR catalog
To: [e-mail]

I've heard that TAPR has a catalog online somewhere.
Can someone mail me an ftp site or the catalog itself?
Thanks.

-- Michael  KC1QX

------------------------------

Date: 23 Jul 91 07:31:27 GMT
From: waikato.ac.nz!canterbury.ac.nz!otago.ac.nz![e-mail]
Subject: u*ix, and terminal emulations .. a request for in
To: [e-mail]

I have recently changed os from MSDOS to a U*ix varient (coherent).

I am currently using kermit to interact with my tnc.
In order to log bbs listings to disk I use
    kermit clb /dev/com1l 1200 | tee <log file>

this seems to work ok ..
but come time to edit <lof file> and send a series of
read requests back to the bbs .. I have had no luck.

I have tried things like
cp <output file> /dev/com1l
cat <output file> > /dev/com1l

and all seem to be acceptable, but do not produce any
status change in the tnc.

Has anyone had any experience in this area and could perhaps
comment

Thanks

Stephen Pearce zl1any

------------------------------

Date: 23 Jul 91 04:31:40 GMT
From: mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!isis.cs.du.edu![e-mail]
Subject: USING NET UNDER MINIX
To: [e-mail]

I am trying to find out if anyone has been able to run the KA9Q package
under MINIX - a flavor of UNIX for the PC.  I'm not sure if it is even
possible.  I would appreciate any leads in this area.  Thanks in advance.

73,
Tim

------------------------------

Date: (null)
From: (null)
Thanks to those who responded so quickly.  I have sent
a note to MFJ requesting the correct manual.

Bill Plymale - KD4CIY
[e-mail]

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #186
******************************
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 91 04:30:04 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #187
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Thu, 25 Jul 91       Volume 91 : Issue 187

Today's Topics:
                 *pmp
             computer control of MFJ-1278
                  CPU & 8530

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 23 Jul 91 02:46:06 GMT
From: mvb.saic.com!unogate!orion.oac.uci.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!helios![e-mail]
Subject: *pmp
To: [e-mail]

Mea Culpa!  Looks like the first set of files I put up for pmp were corrupt.
As of 2130 CDT they should be OK.

Anonymous ftp to csseq.cs.tamu.edu, directory ham-radio.

Please email [e-mail] if you have problems (or if it works!).

As an aside, we're trying to keep an assortment of ham related files on
that system.  We currently have some ROSE s/w, as well as the current
question pool.  The only version of NOS is one (slightly) modified to
support IP access control.
Suggestions/comments are welcome.

Cheers,
 Willis n5szf

------------------------------

Date: 23 Jul 91 15:57:00 GMT
From: usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ncar!noao!asuvax!anasaz!qip![e-mail]
Subject: computer control of MFJ-1278
To: [e-mail]

I run a UNIX system at home, and I would like to have a process that
talks to my MFJ-1278 packet box and controls it. BBS services would
be nice, but currently I am trying to have it automatically contact
MIR and exchange messages.

What is the best way to do this? The basic command mode is not really
very computer friendly. Is there a mode that allow unambiguous and
straightforward decoding of events? What is KISS - does it help?

As you can see, packet is not something I am deeply involved in. Any
help would be appreciated.
--
John Moore HAM:NJ7E/CAP:T-Bird 381 {ames!ncar!noao!asuvax,mcdphx}!anasaz!john
USnail: 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale,AZ 85253 anasaz![e-mail]
Voice: [phone]        Wishful Thinking: Long palladium, Short Petroleum
Opinion: Support ALL of the bill of rights, INCLUDING the 2nd amendment!

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jul 91 02:11:53 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: CPU & 8530
To: [e-mail]

I post now the telephone of the ACE+ card.
The company is BELL TECHNOLOGIES  (the famous BELL ????).
The telephone is (415)-659-9097.
If you contact with them please inform us if exist any driver for
MSDOS also .
73 George SV1BDS

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #187
******************************
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 91 04:30:02 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #188
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Fri, 26 Jul 91       Volume 91 : Issue 188

Today's Topics:
                 AST question
               AX.25 vs TCP/IP
         Need NET/ROM protocol specification

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 25 Jul 91 12:34:52 GMT
From: crash!hale![e-mail]
Subject: AST question
To: [e-mail]

I got my hands on a AST Six Pac Plus.  (Memory, IO and Clock card)

Anyone know the dipswitch settings for this or other info?  I know this
isn't exactly the best place to ask, but it is related, as I need the extra
memory to run utils for my radio stuff, although I don't have a packet
setup, yet.  (Have the software, and most of the hardware.)


System Administrator                     Hale Telecommunications Public Access
[e-mail]                                     619-660-6734 8N1 24 Hours
734 8N1 24 Hours

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jul 91 18:10:14 GMT
From: telebit![e-mail]
Subject: AX.25 vs TCP/IP
To: [e-mail]

There should be no problem IF things are set up correctly.  I have
noticed a propensity for users of KA9Q to add a host route for
everyone they talk to.  This is expedient but wrong and is the result
of people assigning IP addresses without considering to which network
(subnet) that user will belong.

Several years ago I constructed a very reliable IP-based network in
the Washington, DC, area.  I layed out the network and I assigned IP
addresses on the basis of subnet.  Each user required only two routes
in order to reach every other reachable station: a network route to
reach the other users in the subnet and a default route pointing to
the router.  It then became the job of the router to forward packets
to the routers of other subnets so the packets could be delivered.

Packets were delivered with a probability of about 0.95.  Email, file
transfers, and keyboard-to-keyboard coexisted without ANY problems.
(I even did an experiment where I ran three concurrent file transfers
between three stations, all trying to transmit.  The result was that
all transfers completed in about the same amount of time indicating
that the channel was being shared equally).

So, should you use IP or AX.25?  Well, when you run IP your IP packets
are encapsulated in AX.25 packets so you really have both.  If your
question is: should I run Phil Karn's KA9Q package to do IP or should
I run some other packet program the answer is clear (to me).  Run KA9Q
because you can do IP and "ordinary" AX.25 at the same time.


--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN                              Telebit Corporation
Network Systems Architect                        1315 Chesapeake Terrace
[e-mail]                                Sunnyvale, CA 94089-1100
voice [phone]                             FAX [phone]

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jul 91 19:01:04 GMT
From: deccrl!bloom-beacon!eru!hagbard!sunic!kuling![e-mail]
Subject: Need NET/ROM protocol specification
To: [e-mail]

I'm working on a fairly ambitious ham radio protocol package for Amiga.
I would like to add NET/ROM to it, but I cannot find any protocol
specification.
I know that NET/ROM is a commercial product, and that there are a couple
of free implementations around. But I don't want any source code, just a
pointer to a protocol specification.


--
H}kan Th|rngren, Dep. of Computer Science, Uppsala University, Sweden
email: [e-mail]   or  [e-mail]

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #188
******************************
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 91 04:30:04 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #189
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Sat, 27 Jul 91       Volume 91 : Issue 189

Today's Topics:
                 help
                Packet Options
                 PACKET RADIO

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 26 Jul 91 14:10:33 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: help
To: [e-mail]

help

------------------------------

Date: 26 Jul 91 15:51:07 GMT
From: sdd.hp.com!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!aplcen!boingo.med.jhu.edu!haven.umd.edu!uflorida![e-mail]
Subject: Packet Options
To: [e-mail]

Congratulations! Please take the time to describe in detail, and from start to finish, the steps you took to obtain your Tech's license. This is a pathway many would like to follow.

------------------------------

Date: 10 Jul 91 22:05:36 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: PACKET RADIO
To: [e-mail]

Hello,

I heard that one can use packet radio or satellite to communicate with
others through computer + modem + small transceiver.

If this is true and someone know more about this please send me more
informations or the addresses where I can get more informations about
that.

I want to know about the satellites location, is it all over the world
or just for USA only. About the packet radio repeater, how to make/get
it, and how much it costs. And about the transceiver itself, the speed,
frequency band, cost, an d if possible the electronic scheme.

All helps will be appreciated.
Regards,
Nathan Madutujuh (MASTR15 at VTVM1, Virginia Tech, Struc. Eng.)

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #189
******************************
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 91 04:30:03 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #190
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Sun, 28 Jul 91       Volume 91 : Issue 190

Today's Topics:
              512K Amiga TCP/IP
                 help
     How to get the Tech ticket (was Re: Packet Options)
            Looking for info on Pactor ??
                Packet Options

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 28 Jul 91 00:51:33 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: 512K Amiga TCP/IP
To: [e-mail]

I have an Amiga 1000 with 512K ram and an external floppy disk drive.  Is it
feasible to run packet TCP/IP with this configuration?  I'm not interested in
having a pbbs or net/rom node running; I only want mail, ftp, telnet, and AX.25
capabilities.  AmigaNOS v2.6 successfully loads but before trying any NOS
commands I discover I have problems moving the windows around on the screen
due to lack of memory (about 50K left).  Does there exist a smaller version
of AmigaNOS?

---
Bob Kaminski                     Internet: [e-mail]
The University of Toledo         Packet:   [e-mail]
Toledo, Ohio   43606

------------------------------

Date: 27 Jul 91 15:43:16 GMT
From: sugar![e-mail]
Subject: help
To: [e-mail]

Distribution: tx

Greetings.

I have FTPed PMP10.ZIP from csseq.cs.tamu.edu and it now unzips w/o
any problems.  This weekend I'm building the modem - following the
circuit diagram in the August issue of 73.  So, can anyone tell me
what frequencies are used on 2m in Houston for packet?  TNX.

                        - Jordan, N5QVI

--
 [e-mail]  |  Jordan Kossack  |  [phone]

------------------------------

Date: 27 Jul 91 10:43:42 GMT
From: deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!sousa!sndpit.enet.dec.com![e-mail]
Subject: How to get the Tech ticket (was Re: Packet Options)
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>,
    [e-mail] writes...
>Congratulations! Please take the time to describe in detail, and from
>start to finish, the steps you took to obtain your Tech's license. This is
>a pathway many would like to follow.

The question frequently comes up: "How do I get my Technician class ticket
(the one that doesn't require code tests)?"

The simple answer:  "Call the ARRL at [phone] and ask for their
Prospective Ham Package.  They will take your adress and send you the
package customized for your zip code.  It's not the most impressive package
I've seen, but it gives you a list of VEs in your area as well as
information on "What is Ham Radio?" and "How do I become a Ham?" and all
that."

The other simple answer:  "Call the W5YI Group at (800)669-W5YI and ask for
_their_ licence preparation material.  I haven't had any contact with the
W5YI Group, but I'm told you get your ticket a little earlier when you take
your test at a W5YI session."

The more complicated answer:  "You need to pass the Novice and Technician
theory tests at a VE session in your area.  Talk to local hams (if you can
find them), check out your local ham store (if you can find one), or call
the ARRL.  To get the study guides for the above tests, call the ARRL,
check out your local ham store, or go to Radio Shack for part numbers 62-
2410 and 62-2411.  The Novice book will from Radio Shack will include morse
code practice tapes, and all of the study guides will probably indicate
that you need morse code for your Technician license, but don't panic!  The
FCC only recently changed the rules (as of February 15, 1991), but you
don't need morse code for the Technician class ticket."

Willie Smith
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
{Usenet!Backbone}!decwrl!sndpit.enet.dec.com!smith
Willie Smith
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
{Usenet!Backbone}!decwrl!sndpit.enet.dec.com!smith

------------------------------

Date: 28 Jul 91 08:44:21 GMT
From: mcsun!cernvax![e-mail]
Subject: Looking for info on Pactor ??
To: [e-mail]

This is a retransmission of a reply that I sent out on July 22, but
that for some reason or other failed to pass our local distribution
filter.  I therefore suspect it was never distributed worldwide as
was the intention.

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (RICHARD HAREL) writes:

>I recently saw info on "Pactor" - a new mode of digital communications
>for poor HF paths. The Hardware and protacol is from Germany I believe.
>The controller is called a "PTC" (Pactor terminal controller).
>I only have limited info on the new controller and would appreciate
>it if someone could post more information about Pactor to the net.
>73,
>Rich
>rharel@fab8%sc.intel.com

I should like to make clear that I have no experience with PACTOR
nor do I have any connection with the developers of PACTOR so what
I know is only what I have learned through the two articles that
have appeared in CQ-DL describing this new and exciting system.

The first article by Hans-Peter Helfert, DL6MAA, and Ulrich
Strate, DF4KV, "PACTOR - Funkfernschreiben mit Memory-ARQ und
Datenkompression", CQ-DL, November 1990, pp.706-709 gives the
theory behind the PACTOR system.  They themselves describe it
as :
     'PACTOR, a new Amateur ARQ System, combining advantageous
      features of both AMTOR and Packet Radio.  A reconstruction
      method for unacknowledged packets (memory ARQ), an efficient
      data compression technique and dual speed operation provide
      a good data throughput even on noisy HF channels'.

PACTOR contains the following features:

     - Memory-ARQ (Cumulative method for reconstruction of the
       original packets)

     - online data compression (Huffman coding)

     - faster and safer change over (Break-In)

     - 100% ASCII compatible (Transmission of binary files)

     - safer close down of transmission (Two-sided QRT)

     - automatic mark/space detection (No fixed mark/space rule)

     - optional connection to external frequency standard

     - unambiguous addressing (Complete callsign)

     - automatic selection of optimum transmission speed
       (100 and 200 Baud)

     - powerful Listen Mode

     - minimum hardware necessary

     - comfortable operation

The transmission format is as follows:

Header : Data Field : Status : CRC

The header contains a constant bit pattern to ease synchronization
in normal operation and in listen mode.  This pattern is as well
important for operation with Memory-ARQ.

The data field varies in length according to the transmission
speed.  At 100 Baud the data field is 10 bytes long (80 bits)
while at 200 Baud it is 24 bytes long (192 bits).

The status or control byte contains a 2 bit packet number, Break-
In or QRT request and transmission mode etc.

The CRC field contains a 16-bit block error detection code which
will detect errors in the data field and status field.

PACTOR uses four control or receipt signals, CS1, CS2, CS3 and CS4.
CS1 and CS2 are the normal control signals, while CS3 is the change
over signal.  These three signals correspond to the control signals
used by AMTOR.  CS4 in unique to PACTOR and it is used to ask the
transmitting station to change transmission speed.  The control
signals are all of 12 bits length and have a Hamming distance of
eight.

The receive interval between two packets or blocks are 320ms.
Taking into account the time needed to transmit a control signal
(120 ms) this leaves 200 ms for TX/RX change over and propagation
delay, which should give sufficient reserve for DX contacts.

The automatic transmission speed change over is controlled by the
receiving station.  By reception of a faulty 200 Baud packet the
receiving station can ask the transmitting station to lower the
speed to 100 Baud.  After correctly received 100 Baud packets the
receiving station can ask the transmitting station to increase the
transmission speed to 200 Baud.  If the next 200 Baud packet is not
acknowledged after a given number of trials the transmitting
station will automatically lower the speed to 100 Baud.

The most interesting aspect of PACTOR is in my opinion Memory-ARQ.
I will not go in details here, the interested reader should consult
the original article and perhaps as well consult the given
reference:

     J.J. Metzner, D. Chang : 'Efficient Selective Repeat ARQ
     Strategies for Very Noisy and Fluctuating Channels',
     IEEE Transactions on Communications, Vol. COM-33, May 1985.

The idea behind Memory-ARQ is to memorize the signal at the output
of the FSK discriminator.  Normally the discriminator output is
filtered and then sent to a slicer to produce a hard 1 or 0 value.
The new idea with Memory-ARQ is to digitize the filtered
discriminator output in an 8 bit ADC and store this value in
memory.  On reception of a repeat of a faulty packet the new values
will be added to the old values such as to try to reconstruct the
original information.  It is clear that this should drastically
reduce the number of repeats as the bit errors in the packets are
likely to be randomly distributed.

The next article by Martin Clas, DL1ZAM, and Peter Mack, DL3FCJ,
'PTC - der PACTOR-Controller', CQ-DL, July 1991, pp.404-407 gives a
description of the PTC hardware.  The whole controller is fitted on
a single card with a front panel card with all the control LEDs and
a LED tuning indicator fixed to the mother card at one end.  The
unit is using a CMOS Z80 CPU and a Z80-STI multifunction chip.  The
design is neat, clean and appears to be well engineered.  Apart
from fully supporting the PACTOR mode the unit can also be used for
AMTOR or normal RTTY.  The AMTOR mode supports the ARQ, FEC and
Listen modes and it can handle RTTY signals in the range from 30 to
300 Baud.  The controller is complete with audio input, PTT control
and AFSK or FSK output signals.  The unit has no switches on the
front panel, all commands are given via the RS-232 interface.

The PTC is available in kit form or as a cabled and tested unit.
All enquiries about the kit or finished unit should be directed to
Dr. Thomas Rink, DL2FAK, Roentgenstrasse 36, 6450 Hanau 1, Germany
or to the authors of the PTC article, DL1ZAM and DL3FCJ.  Please
enclose a SASE with every letter.

Below follows the addresses for the four authors:

     - Hans-Peter Helfert, DL6MAA,
       Gustav-Muller-Strasse 8, 8948 Mindelheim, Germany

     - Ulrich Strate, DF4KV,
       Lommerwiese 18, 5330 Koenigswinter 1, Germany

     - Martin Clas, DL1ZAM,
       Kreuzbergstrasse 24, 6457 Maintal 4, Germany

     - Peter Mack, DL3FCJ,
       Im Bangert 21, 6450 Hanau 1, Germany

I hope this overview gave some information and did not create to much
confusion.  I sincerely hope that some of the original designers of
PACTOR will take up the pen again and write a new article in an
English hamradio magazine.  What about QEX?

73 de Frode, LA2RL/HB9CHL

**************************************************************************
*       Frode Weierud           Phone   :       [phone]            *
*       CERN, SL                Fax     :       41 22 7823676            *
*       CH-1211 Geneva  23      E-mail  :       [e-mail]    *
*       Switzerland                        or   [e-mail]   *
**************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: 28 Jul 91 04:24:58 GMT
From: usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!zeus.unomaha.edu![e-mail]
Subject: Packet Options
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
writes:

> Congratulations! Please take the time to describe in detail, and from start
> to finish, the steps you took to obtain your Tech's license. This is a
> pathway many would like to follow.


This is an excellent topic dealt with by the lists of Frequently Asked Questions
for the amateur radio newsgroups.  For rec.radio.amateur.misc (aka Info-Hams
Digest) they are written by Diana Syriac, KC1SP.  They are posted on the
1st of each month, or you can get them from ftp.cs.buffalo.edu under
subdirectory /pub/ham-radio.

Questions about packet in general can be answered by Steve Schallen's FAQ
list for rec.radio.amateur.packet (aka Packet-Radio Digest) also due to
be posted soon and available via FTP.

73, Paul W. Schleck, KD3FU

[e-mail]

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #190
******************************
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 91 04:30:04 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #191
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Mon, 29 Jul 91       Volume 91 : Issue 191

Today's Topics:
                  TCP/IP map

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 29 Jul 91 01:21:22 GMT
From: swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!cunixf.cc.columbia.edu!lamont![e-mail]
Subject: TCP/IP map
To: [e-mail]

    Is there a current map showing packet TCP/IP name
servers and gateways for the NY, NJ, CT area?



                Bob Bookbinder

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory of Columbia University
Palisades, New York 10964
Analog:         914-359-2900 X 498
Digital:        [e-mail]
Fax:            914-359-5215
RF:             WA2LWE@WB2COY
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 28 Jul 91 18:30:27 GMT
From: swrinde!mips!atha!aupair.cs.athabascau.ca![e-mail]
To: [e-mail]

References <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>
Subject : Re: 'NA' country domain appears to be non-unique


Please pay attention, people. The bogus .NA addresses being talked
about have NO relation to the RFC822 mailers you all know and love.

These addresses are for use with a certain type of BBS package
used on amateur packet radio. Their close similarity to RFC822
address syntax is purely a mistake. No amount of headstanding
with MX records is going to solve the "gateway" problem, because
there IS no gateway problem. These are completely seperate networks.

Now, would all the people who refused to listen to some of us when
we said the RLI/MSYS syntax was only going to cause trouble please
line up against that concrete wall ... Once again, amateur radio
demonstrates its ability to be at the very trailing edge of technology.

--
       atha!cs.athabascau.ca!lyndon || [e-mail]
            Packet: [e-mail]
    As a math atheist, I should be excused from this.   --Calvin

------------------------------

End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #191
******************************
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 91 04:30:04 PDT
From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup </dev/[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #192
To: packet-radio


Packet-Radio Digest         Tue, 30 Jul 91       Volume 91 : Issue 192

Today's Topics:
               .NA addressing in PACKET
             .NA naming convetion
              Doc on AX.25 Version 2.1 ?
                 help
              How do I order this info?
     How to get the Tech ticket (was Re: Packet Options) (2 msgs)
              IP numbers for PMP sites.
            is this a mailing list
        NA packet radio vs. NA Internet domain
        Need help on PK232 for tcp-ip (2 msgs)
         Packet-Internet Gateways (was NA in headers)
            USING NET UNDER MINIX
          your LISTSERVE request "list packet-radio"

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 30 Jul 91 03:28:38 GMT
From: sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!helios!summa.tamu.edu![e-mail]
Subject: .NA addressing in PACKET
To: [e-mail]

Hey, maybe I am naive or something about internet and packet (which is a real
possibility), but as I understand it, any gateway between amateur radio packet
networks and internet would have to be watched very carefully at the gateway
site by the CONTROL OPERATOR.  This would be absolutely necessary at the
internet to packet side in order to avoid any possible problems like the 900
bulletin problem (we all know abt that by now, nuff sed). Allowing such gateways
would in turn allow non-hams to get on the ham packet network, amounting to
third party traffic, which would require the transmission of the info by a
licensed ham who is the CONTROL OPERATOR.

Anyway, my point is, there really should be no problem with overlap of amateur
packet and the internet addresses as hams operating should see these problems
before they occur.  I know that the idea of gateway ops checking each message
going thru will not be popular (understatement is one of my fortes).  I believe
that this is necessary, though, from a legal standpoint (I realize that this
last remark will invoke the rath of many legal minded folks and will accept the
heat). My remarks abt legal matters are from an individual standpoint and not
meant to reflect the true legal status of such questions.

I am not sure that these gateways are such a good idea anyway. (Yet
another remark worth buying an asbestos suit over)  The Amateur packet network
system and the internet network are designed for two different uses and perhaps
an intertie between them would be detrimental to them both.


Ok, the above remarks are INTENDED to spark some tempers, but not to cast them
into some great bonfire.  I meant no malice, just trying to get the real dope on
the subject.  Bring onthe heat, baby


Mark S. Whitsitt, N5RJF        Texas A&M University, Dept of Biochemistry
Bitnet:  MSW1633@TAMSIGMA                 College Station, Tx. 77843-2128
Internet:  [e-mail]                          [phone]
Packet:  N5RJF @ KE5HE.TX.USA.NA
   "You can't throw darts when you're empty, man" -- another Schadelism

------------------------------

Date: 29 Jul 91 20:48:45 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: .NA naming convetion
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Lyndon Nerenberg) writes:
>Now, would all the people who refused to listen to some of us when
>we said the RLI/MSYS syntax was only going to cause trouble please
>line up against that concrete wall ... Once again, amateur radio
>demonstrates its ability to be at the very trailing edge of technology.

Don't point a finger at WA8BXN (the MSYS author) for this.  It was
invented long before MSYS appeared.  The original paper was authored
by W0RLI, VE3GYQ, and W3IWI.

Roy, AA4RE

P.S. Do we need to reopen the domain name versus hierarchical address
battle again?  I hope not.

------------------------------

Date: 29 Jul 91 15:43:00 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Doc on AX.25 Version 2.1 ?
To: [e-mail]

Does anyone know where I can get a hold of the spec for AX.25 Version 2.1 ?
I've seen references to it on the documentation on NOS (TCP/IP), but
don't know where I can find it.  The ARRL sent me version 2.0 when I
ordered a copy of the spec, but I really need to see version 2.1
(deals with fragmentation).  -- Dan

Dan Larner, WV9Z
Allen-Bradley Co., 1201 S. Second St., Milwaukee, WI 53204 ; [phone]
Home: 2604 Aberdeen Ct., Waukesha, WI 53188 ; [phone]
[e-mail] (internet)
[e-mail] (AX.25)

------------------------------

Date: 29 Jul 91 14:00:49 GMT
From: swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!stanford.edu!eos!aio![e-mail]
Subject: help
To: [e-mail]

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jordan M. Kossack) writes:

>Distribution: tx
>
>Greetings.
>
>I have FTPed PMP10.ZIP from csseq.cs.tamu.edu and it now unzips w/o
>any problems.  This weekend I'm building the modem - following the
>circuit diagram in the August issue of 73.  So, can anyone tell me
>what frequencies are used on 2m in Houston for packet?  TNX.
>
>                                                - Jordan, N5QVI
>
>--
> [e-mail]  |  Jordan Kossack  |  [phone]

Primarily 145.01, 145.07, and 145.09, but you might alos check 145.03, and
145.05.


 - Sarge, W0RIJ

------------------------------

Date: 29 Jul 91 22:09:02 GMT
From: bonnie.concordia.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!ubitrex.mb.ca![e-mail]
Subject: How do I order this info?
To: [e-mail]

To:
Subject: Re:
Newsgroups:
In-Reply-To:
Organization: Ubitrex Corporation, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Cc:
Bcc:


Can anyone tell me where I can order copies of:

1. ARRL Spread Spectrum Sourcebook
2. Proceedings from Globecom '85 '90

Thanks

------------------------------

Date: 29 Jul 91 13:00:23 GMT
From: swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!rex!uflorida![e-mail]
Subject: How to get the Tech ticket (was Re: Packet Options)
To: [e-mail]

Excellent! Thank you.

------------------------------

Date: 29 Jul 91 17:48:45 GMT
From: pacbell.com!mips!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!oakhill!nddsun1![e-mail]
Subject: How to get the Tech ticket (was Re: Packet Options)
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Willie Smith) writes:
>The question frequently comes up: "How do I get my Technician class ticket
>(the one that doesn't require code tests)?"

Another (possibly simple) answer, at least in the Phoenix area DeVry
Institute Ham Club gives tests every month. A call to them might prove
worthwhile in your area too!

If you hear about any "hamfests" then there is almost always a testing
session there too. THe Scottsdale hamfest (Oct 11,12,13 this year) plans
a three day COURSE ending with the test!

At Ft. Tuthill last weekend (S. of Flagstaff AZ) there were 600 tests
given! (Somewhat fewer people since some people took mutiple tests). It
is best to pre-register if you can (phone the VEC) just to be sure there
is space, the VEs at Tuthill were overwhelmed with the numbers (5
pre-registered), but as far as I am aware no one was turned away
although some people had to wait several hours for their test.

--
       *Mike Waters    AA4MW/7  [e-mail] *
Call on God, but row away from the rocks.
        -- Indian proverb

------------------------------

Date: 26 Jul 91 20:59:16 GMT
From: swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!utorvm!ryerson![e-mail]
Subject: IP numbers for PMP sites.
To: [e-mail]

Hi,
   Could some one post the IP numbers for helios.tn.cornell.edu and
 csseq.cs.tamu.edu . I received a site not know error. Thanks.

                                  Roger Smith

------------------------------

Date: 29 Jul 91 13:58:26 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: is this a mailing list
To: [e-mail]

If this is a mailing list for packet, please sign me up.

Thanks,

Tom


      || * * * * * =========       Tom Varga
      ||  * * * *  =========       Kendall Square Research
      || * * * * * =========       617-895-9415
      || ===================       [e-mail]
      || ===================       uunet!ksr!tom
      || ===================       N2UA @ KA1MGO
      ||

------------------------------

Date: 29 Jul 91 12:12:53 GMT
From: swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu![e-mail]
Subject: NA packet radio vs. NA Internet domain
To: [e-mail]

An interesting little problem has popped up on internet having to do
with the use of the NA amateur radio packet domain being accidentally applied
to internet.

The following mail appeared in the usenet group comp.mail.headers:

-----------------

From: [e-mail] (F. Jacot Guillarmod)
Newsgroups: comp.mail.headers,comp.mail.misc,comp.protocols.tcp-ip.domains
Subject: 'NA' country domain appears to be non-unique
Date: 27 Jul 91 20:30:37 GMT

The following article recently appeared in the infonets mailing list:
>Subject: ampr.org (digital radio internet) - totally separate?
> [a whole bunch of stuff deleted]
>-Jim Durham  ([e-mail]) or packet-wise: [e-mail]

The interesting part for me is the '.NA' in the above signature.
Interesting because we are running a dialup uucp link to Namibia, which
has just got itself registered with the NIC, and I have already seen
quite a few non-obvious destinations passing through on this link.

Does anybody have any light to shed on this?  Can anything be done to
tidy up?

[An interesting ergonomic side effect is the proximity of 'A' to 'Z' on
a standard keyboard, leading to typos that deliver mail for
'[e-mail]' to Windhoek - eventually].

--
  F.F. Jacot Guillarmod     PO  Box 94     \        |     [e-mail]
  Computing Centre       Grahamstown 6140   \      /     [phone] xt 284
  Rhodes University        South Africa      ;___*/   33 18 30 S | 26 31 45 E

---------------

It was discussed in the group that this is amatuer packet radio traffic
and is not intended to be sent to NAmbia. (which is an official ISO
internet country designator)  It was further learned that NAmbia is paying
a large price for each message that comes in and out of the country
and it is diligently bouncing all ill-addressed mail, but at a high
price. (something they want to stop doing)

In a request for assistance from NAmbia's postmaster, [e-mail]
(Dr. Eberhard W. Lisse), I sent him:


---------------

In comp.mail.headers you write:

>I am trying to find out who is in charge (postmaster) of this packet
>radio network to contact him to find ways to sort this out. This
>should be the proper way. They should register a top level domaine
>with sri.nic.mil or make the gateways rewrite their headers or
>something...

There is really no postmaster for the packet radio network.  Let me explain
how this naming scheme came about.  The packet radio network is an
international network of amateur radio BBS systems.  Just like internet
evolved hierarchical naming schemes, so did amateur packet radio.
Mail messages that go over the packet radio network do not use standard
RFC822 headers and do not conform to any Internet mailing system, they
just look the same.

Currently, amateur radio is not connected with Internet in any formal
manner except a few people who are experimenting with gateways.
In the future, this connection will surely increase.  Amateur packet
radio already has a Internet domain of AMPR.ORG (net 44).  Perhaps this
will provide a solution for the gatewaying problem.

>the packet radio network in the USA has an INTERNAL domaine NA for
>North America. If someone mails INSIDE the packet network it goes
>without problems. Unfortunately the gateways do not rewrite the
>headers to something sensible and then the users REPLY to the From:
>address.

The packet radio network is international.  The NA as you have guessed
does stand for North America.  It is interesting to note that the
.NA never was intended to be used anywhere but in the amateur packet
radio BBS systems.

>[e-mail] knows about it. As far as I am concerned there
>is nothing wrong with MXing all NAmibias hosts individually at
>uunet.UU.NET. However they seem to be reluctant to do this on
>principal as NA is a legal, registered top level domaine and the
>packet net is not. It might happen quite quickly that our University
>finally signs an agreement and some more hosts get on the net. I
>really do not want to bother people at other hosts so much.

I think uunet is correct.  The MX records would patch the problem
temporarily, but it is not the final solution.  In addition, for other reasons,
the 2 character continent names in amateur packet radio is getting phased out
in favor of 4 letter domain names.  In the case of North America, it
is changing from NA to NOAM.  But, this is strictly voluntary, so the
conversion is slow.

The word will have to be spread in the amateur packet radio community
to make sure the names do not get propagated over.

Let me state that I am not any official in amateur packet radio nor am
I a gateway operator nor a writer of amateur radio BBS software.  However,
I am an amateur radio operator with great interest in amateur packet
radio as well as Internet.

I am willing to help you sort this problem out.  If you could send me
the headers of the bounced mail files, I could post them to the
appropriate discussion groups and try to find you an answer.
I do think this problem can be solved in a manner that will please everyone
and I want to thank you for your cooperation on this matter.

-Steve Schallehn
 [e-mail]
 Kansas State University

------------

The whole gateway question involved here is if any of the current
internet<--->packet gateways are allowing the BBS headers to slide
through in a Reply-to or a From header.  Also, perhaps there should
be some disclaimer tacked on to gatewayed messages stating
what a proper return path should be.


Something to chew on.....

-Steve Schallehn  KB0AGD
 Kansas State University

------------------------------

Date: 29 Jul 91 16:27:49 GMT
From: ksr![e-mail]
Subject: Need help on PK232 for tcp-ip
To: [e-mail]

I spend most of the weekend trying to set up tcp-ip on my toshiba
laptop and the pk232.  I am having a terrible time at it. I am using
the 6/91 version of net.exe (NOS).  So far I can sometimes do a ping
successfully, but mostly I seem to get checksum errors. (visible by
trace)

Does anybody out there use the pk232 for tcp-ip?  What do I need to do
to get to kiss mode if I use PC-pakratt for normal packet?

I would really appreciate some help or advice.  The documention out
there is either very confusing or is out of date.  Took me half a day
to figure out the hosts.net is no longer used!!

Thanks,
Tom

--

      || * * * * * =========       Tom Varga
      ||  * * * *  =========       Kendall Square Research
      || * * * * * =========       617-895-9415
      || ===================       [e-mail]
      || ===================       uunet!ksr!tom
      || ===================       N2UA @ KA1PEP
      ||

------------------------------

Date: 29 Jul 91 22:11:45 GMT
From: ksr![e-mail]
Subject: Need help on PK232 for tcp-ip
To: [e-mail]

I just realized that the file ka9qnos.ps file on 128.54.16.1 is
corrupted and only has the first 18 pages of the manual.  It would
help us greenhorns a lot if all old out of date manuals and maybe even
old versions of the net software would be removed from /pub directories on
the net.  That way I would not be mixing apples and oranges.

Tom

--

      || * * * * * =========       Tom Varga
      ||  * * * *  =========       Kendall Square Research
      || * * * * * =========       617-895-9415
      || ===================       [e-mail]
      || ===================       uunet!ksr!tom
      || ===================       N2UA @ KA1PEP
      ||

------------------------------

Date: 30 Jul 91 05:42:02 GMT
From: usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!munnari.oz.au!manuel!ccadfa![e-mail]
Subject: Packet-Internet Gateways (was NA in headers)
To: [e-mail]



------------------------------

Date: 29 Jul 91 21:19:10 GMT
From: sdd.hp.com!wupost!rex!ukma!hsdndev!dartvax!mars.caps.maine.edu!maine.maine.edu![e-mail]
Subject: USING NET UNDER MINIX
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
(Timothy R. Wilhite) says:
>
>I am trying to find out if anyone has been able to run the KA9Q package
>under MINIX - a flavor of UNIX for the PC.  I'm not sure if it is even
>possible.  I would appreciate any leads in this area.  Thanks in advance.
>
>73,
>Tim

    One word.
    Suicide.
    In order to fully appreciate all the capabilities of net it would be nice
to have it incorporated in the kernel, but it's not.  I knew of someone who
was doing such a thing, but I haven't heard from him in ages.
    Minix is not a system I would recommend trying net on.  I run Minix at
home and personally don't think it's worth it.  Someday Minix will have REAL
TCP/IP, and then someone can make an AX.25 driver and we'll all be happy.
    In the meantime, MS/DOS works just fine.

                 --Thom
                   [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 29 Jul 91 12:03:12 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: your LISTSERVE request "list packet-radio"
To: [e-mail]

Per request by [e-mail]
    "list packet-radio"
'packet-radio' is not subscribed to any mailing lists.

------------------------------

Date: 30 Jul 91 01:44:48 GMT
From: munnari.oz.au!uniwa!cc.curtin.edu.au![e-mail]
To: [e-mail]

References <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>
Subject : Re: 'NA' country domain appears to be non-unique

> Don't complain about a working system unless you're prepared to implement
> an alternative. The hierarchical naming convention works well. It's the
> users who need to be fixed...in this case, educated that sending mail to
> a BBS address in North America from an Internet node will instead result
> in that mail getting sent to Namibia, and, most likely, bounced there.

   Why, when deficiencies in software are unearthed, is there a push to
educate users rather than fixing the bloody software? This isn't the first
instance of this: the obvious one which comes to mind is the need to add the
'$' when you want to send a bulletin to a whole group of BBSs rather than
just the one you're logged on to.
   In case you missed it, if you enter 'sb rhubarb@xxx', your bulletin goes
to the Great Bit Bucket In The Sky (at least it does on an MBL system: I assume
the others are no better). You have to enter 'sb rhubarb@xxx $' if you expect
it to leave your own BBS.
   Another case in point was the propensity of the original hierarchical
addressing software to scan from left to right: a procedure which meant, for
example, that 'WA' (for Western Australia) couldn't be used due to probable
confusion with Washington State. Rather than modify the software, the solution
proposed was to use 'WA' for Washington, and '#WA' for Western Australia.
   Both of these were elevated to the 'it's not a bug: it's a feature' category
and became almost impossible to change.
   Why not just change the software and make it easier on everybody?

.....Ron

--
                 ***
 Ron Murray (VK6ZJM)
 Internet: [e-mail]
     "The world is a pork chop" -- #44 in a series of profound sayings

------------------------------

Date: 29 Jul 91 17:20:52 GMT
From: usc!cs.utexas.edu!bcm!lib!oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu![e-mail]
To: [e-mail]

References <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>
Subject : Re: 'NA' country domain appears to be non-unique

For the folks hearing about this in rec.radio.amateur.packet for the first
time: Apparently folks are trying to use packet BBS addresses when sending
mail from the Internet, perhaps in the (mistaken) belief that there is a
gateway from one to the other.

.NA, in the Internet world, is a top-level domain for the country of
Namibia.

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Lyndon Nerenberg) writes:
>Now, would all the people who refused to listen to some of us when
>we said the RLI/MSYS syntax was only going to cause trouble please
>line up against that concrete wall ... Once again, amateur radio
>demonstrates its ability to be at the very trailing edge of technology.

Don't complain about a working system unless you're prepared to implement
an alternative. The hierarchical naming convention works well. It's the
users who need to be fixed...in this case, educated that sending mail to
a BBS address in North America from an Internet node will instead result
in that mail getting sent to Namibia, and, most likely, bounced there.

--
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
[e-mail]      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
       "We should be ADVANCING on X.400." -- Albert Langer
        "With rifles and flamethrowers." -- Henry Spencer

------------------------------

Date: 29 Jul 91 13:27:28 GMT
From: [e-mail]
To: [e-mail]

References <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>
Subject : Re: 'NA' country domain appears to be non-unique

>>>-Jim Durham  ([e-mail]) or packet-wise: [e-mail]

The official international internet domain for packet radio is AMPR.ORG and
I am its administrator.  There are some regional packet radio internet
domains, such as the one in Japan.

These are the hostnames that may appear on the internet.

Internally within the packet radio network, a crude and primitive
stopgap geographical hierarchical routing scheme evolved that used
addresses such as the one in question above.  Those addresses are really
routing instructions and should never appear in internet mail or news
headers.  That they appear in someone's signature block is insignificant.

There are only three country identifiers which appear within the .NA
continental identifier: USA, CA, MX.

If packet hierarchical addresses are to appear in the internet context,
they should be enclosed within the AMPR.ORG domain, e.g.,
    [e-mail]
but this is strictly a kludge for compatability.

Assuming that Namibia does not use the second-level domains of USA, CA,
or MX, Uunet could install three CNAME records in its nameserver to
rename CA.NA, MX.NA, and USA.NA to CA.NA.AMPR.ORG, etc.  This would
properly cause misaddressed mail to be flushed down the toilet at the
earliest opportunity, thus eliminating transport charges to Namibia.
Likewise, if the Namibian mail gateway were to install a similar
"firewall", transport charges from Namibia could be eliminated.

Meanwhile, perhaps the ham radio community can band together and admit
its mistake in making hierarchical routing addresses look like internet
domains.  It could be solved simply by choosing a different separator
character - the + sign or colon, for example - but unless something is
done this problem is only going to become worse and not better.

    Brian Kantor    UC San Diego

   "There is more harmony in films than in life."
    - Francois Truffaut

------------------------------

Date: (null)
From: (null)
Not necessarily. I am one of about a dozen Packet-Internet gateway operators
and I have not had any trouble whatsoever yet.

Because the gateways use ip encapsulation to hide the amateur packets in
Internet packets, this forms a fairly good brickwall stopping:

    + amateurs accessing the resources of the Internet (apart from
      using the Internet to connect to the other packet gateways)
    + Internet users sending packets past the gateways because:
        - nobody on the Internet knows how to route to 44.x.x.x, and
        - even if they could, the packeteers can't talk back

> Allowing such gateways
> would in turn allow non-hams to get on the ham packet network, amounting to
> third party traffic, which would require the transmission of the info by a
> licensed ham who is the CONTROL OPERATOR.

At the moment, this is really only possible if a gateway is itself involved
in active mail handling. Turning mail handling of gateways, and using them
only to route packets closes that hole totally.

> I am not sure that these gateways are such a good idea anyway.
> The Amateur packet network system and the internet network are designed
> for two different uses and perhaps an intertie between them would be
> detrimental to them both.

Not for international chats and mail forwarding. Our gateway here in Australia
allows us to send/receive mail to/from the US, Hawaii and Europe. And
using axip, we can even digipeat to these places as well. With enough
gateways, we can use the Internet as a `backbone' network to speed mail
and bulletins to their destinations.

> Ok, the above remarks are INTENDED to spark some tempers.
> I meant no malice, just trying to get the real dope on
> the subject.

That's ok, there are a few of us out here patient enough to explain things!

A brief explanation on ip and ax25 encapsulation, to show how it works.
Imagine two (or more) gateways on the Internet who want to pass amateur
IP packets over the Internet. This is currently impossible, as no
routes exist for 44.x.x.x packets.

The solution is to use a 44.x.x.x address for the gateway's amateur
interface (TNC etc), and a `real' Internet address for the gateway's
Internet interface (Ethernet etc.), and to _encapsulate_ incoming amateur ip
packets in `real' internet packets. For example, imagine the gateway gets
the packet

    IP: 44.136.0.25 -> 44.62.0.1 Data: blah blah

The gateway prepends another IP header to the packet, determines the
appropriate destination gateway real Internet address, and sends it:

IP: 131.236.20.90 -> 192.100.76.2 IP: 44.136.0.25 -> 44.62.0.1 Data: blah blah

The destination gateway receives the packet, unwraps it, and passes it along.
This provides a pretty good brickwall, as amateurs cannot route to the Internet
as their packets are encapsulated, and Internet users cannot route to 44.x.x.x
because none of the Internet machines know how to.

Next question, please!!!


       Warren Toomey VK1XWT, slow kermiting.
      Deep in the bowels of ADFA Comp Science.
  `The key that I thought opened the door doesn't'

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End of Packet-Radio Digest V91 #192
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