World of Ham Radio 1994 January/AMSOFT_1994.iso/packet/docs/pd198707.doc

Text File | 1993-12-31 | 36.5 KB | 776 lines

6-Jul-87 10:43:55-EDT,2330;000000000000
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From: Marc Grondin <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Subject:  Suggestion for routing convention...
C:        DOUG YUILL

Well, as you can tell, I'm not a ham (Yet), but I have been reading your
news group and I also hope to get my ticket in the future...

I have read hear that Area codes is the preferred medium for addressing
convention and routing direction.  But major points against this have lead
me to beleive that it is not the best way.  These troubles are for LARGE
area codes, as found in Canada.  A VHF 2 Meter signal could never cross
the province of BC, or other places.  The next major trouble is that a
lot of countries don't follow a standard area code designation.  Thus,
international communication is not very standard.

I thought of 2 suggestions.  The first is to include the exchange number
in the area code to get a more local mapping.  But this fails for
international calls.

The next was to use a grid that is VERY well known to all around the world.
The Longtitude and Latitude lines.  Making an 2 (or 3) dimension array
with the Longtitude and latitude numbers as subscipts would make for an
easy routing table.  Major relay sites could be placed in this table.
A header may look like the following:
123'34,234'40    <--Longitude and Latitude place to go to.
H3ZXD    <-- Ham relay site for that area
Person@LocalSite  <-- Specific person and where she gets her mail.

(sorry, I choose random numbers in the above)

After a while, a proper routing table of Routing sites could be made
to forward like BITNET does it's routing.

I hope this solisitation is accepted as input....

Thanks and 73...

Marc Grondin (8->) <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>
 9-Jul-87 16:02:06-EDT,1095;000000000000
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Date: 7 Jul 87 18:07:48 GMT
From: rochester!pt!cadre!pitt![e-mail] (Bob Hoffman)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: ARRL Networking Conference
References: <[e-mail]>

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Does anyone know the details on submitting papers?
>In particular, what is the deadline?

Camera-ready copy must be in to ARRL HQ by Monday, July 27, 1987.

--
Bob Hoffman, N3CVL       {allegra, bellcore, cadre, idis, psuvax1}!pitt!hoffman
Pitt Computer Science    [e-mail]


 9-Jul-87 22:07:46-EDT,755;000000000000
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From: [e-mail] (Clifford Neuman)
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Subject: ARRL Networking Conference

Does anyone know the details on submitting papers?
In particular, what is the deadline?

    ~ Cliff
 9-Jul-87 22:50:45-EDT,4760;000000000000
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From: [e-mail] (Henry R Frohne)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Questions from a newcomer...
Date: 8 Jul 87 17:37:53 GMT

Help!
    I am a newcomer to the packet world and I have some questions
for some of you who have more experience.  I just purchased a MFJ 1274
TNC 2 clone.  My reason for doing this was to investigate the possibility
of setting up a network among several of my friends scattered around
North America.  We all like the idea of being able to leave a message
on one another's computers and we also like the idea of using the computer
to filter out all the other traffic on a frequency that is not specifically
for one of us.  We planned to leave our HF rigs on a predetermined frequency
and if any one of us wanted a word with another he could connect to the
one he wished to speak with and perhaps send a bunch of control g's to
"ring" the other up and then the information could be passed either on
packet or ssb if the other was there, or a message could be left in the
case of the other's absence.  The connect feature of packet would allow
us to know if propagation was the reason our schedules failed or if it
was simply a forgetful operator.  Anyway, that is what motivated my
interest in packet.  I beleive this kind of thing is legal but would
appreciate hearing if there are problems with it.

    Now for some technical questions:

1.  After playing around with the TNC on monitor mode the last couple of
    nights I have discovered that the signal to noise ratio must be really
    good in order to receive a significant portion of the packets coming
    in.  Qauntitatively I note that I don't even get half the packets that
    are coming in with S9 signals!  I have noticed that adjusting the IF
    shift so that it passes 1600Hz to 2400Hz doesn't seem to help much.
    I noticed that reducing the RF gain helps significantly, but the best RF
    gain setting is different for different signal levels.  The notch filter
    has little positive effect.  The IBM computer I am using generates a
    lot of birdies and they cause a significant problem copying as I noted
    an improvement when using the control s function and turning the IBM
    off.  There seems to be a little improvement by using the squelch to
    eliminate background noise during times when no packets are coming or
    they are too weak to have any hope of being copied.  I also noted an
    improvement by setting DWAIT 0.  Are there any other easy things I
    can do to the rig or settings on the TNC that may improve copy?

2.  I looked up the power spectral density for binary FSK to determine
    what the passband of a filter should look like and am in the process
    of trying a switched capacitor filter.  I have some doubts about this
    as a solution since the notch filter and the IF shift didn't help
    much, but since this is the only solution that came to me immediately
    and since I am pretty far along on this project I will finish trying it.
    The demodulator is an XR-2211.  Is there any other method of enhancing
    this modem?  Can you refer me to something in the literature?

3.  It seems to me that it would be nice to have a monitor feature in the
    TNC which would allow printing of packets with errors.  Did I miss this
    feature in my quick overview of the manual?  If not why isn't it included?

4.  Is it normal to miss half the packets when the signal is S9?  What is
    the best performance I can expect from HF packet?  How do I attain this
    performance?

5.  Why is the copy so sensitive to the RF gain (not the AF gain)?

    Thanks for considering my problems with HF packet.  I have been
reading this newsgroup for quite a while and I don't recall any discussion
of these problems.  What I am afraid of hearing is that there are no great
solutions and that is why everyone is on VHF packet.

                Thanks for the help,
                Rob Frohne, KL7NA/9

    P.S.  I have recently posted several inquiries to the net with no
response.  Am I getting out?  Please let me know!  Thanks again.

    UUCP address:  ihnp4!pur-ee!frohne
    snail mail:   1320 Palmer Dr. #311, West Lafayette, IN 47906-1815


10-Jul-87 08:20:54-EDT,2699;000000000000
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Date:     10 JUL 87  11:18:23 MEZ
From: [e-mail]
To: [e-mail]
Cc: [e-mail]
Subject:  Re: Questions from a newcomer...

Hello dear Rob,
you have many questions and I can only answer some of them, although
I run packet radio for quite some time now.

> 3.It seems to me that it would be nice to have a monitor feature in the
>   TNC which would allow printing of packets with errors.  Did I miss this
>   feature in my quick overview of the manual?  If not why isn't it included?

Usually it is not possible to monitor frames which have errors because
in the TNC hardware these frame are already thrown away in the chip
which decodes the HDLC transmission. I wrote a software solution for my
home computer where even the decoding of the HDLC is done in software.
(for the experts: using the W4UCH code). With that program I can read
frame which have errors. About 1/2 of the bad frames can still be read
in the monitor mode having only a few wrong characters. I don't know
of any other TNC or program that copies bad frames. I think it is not
considered worth to do it because you cannot do anything with those
frames except monitor them.

> 4.Is it normal to miss half the packets when the signal is S9? ...

Yes, it is! The other half of the packets do not contain information
fields. You probably monitor only frames which have text in it and
the acknowlege, connect request and busy frames will not be monitored.
These frames will make up about half of the traffic. In version 2 of
the AX.25L2 protocoll there are always these dumb link-integrity-
testing frames which block the frequency most of the time...
(for the experts: there must be a misunderstanding in using the
inactive link timer by all the TNC software writers, those frames
are even transmitted when the link has been active milliseconds before).

There were only two questions I could answer just now. Please excuse
the two inserts "for the experts". I put them in because I will also
send this message to the whole list and there are many experts...

Karl-Heinz, packet: DK8HI @ DB0HB, network: F33PAP @ DHHDESY3.BITNET

12-Jul-87 15:27:07-EDT,2464;000000000000
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From: [e-mail] (Clifford Neuman)
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To: [e-mail], [e-mail]
Subject: moderated vs unmoderated info-hams and packet-radio

I tend to agree with most of the people who have responded to this
proposal.  Having separate moderated and unmoderated groups is
probabaly not a good idea.  It would lead to confusion.  It would add
delay to the distribution of the moderated articles which are
probabaly the most interesting anyway.  And finally, the moderating
scheme currently in use is not secure anyway.

There is a better solution though.  Let there be one newsgroup for
each of packet-radio and info-hams as there is now.  Packet-radio
systems should be able to exchange articles with other packet-radio
systems over the air.  If the station run IP on top of ax.25, then
they might use NNTP.  If not, they can use other methods such as
encapsulating each message inside a packet mail message.  With enough
systems exchanging messages in this manner, we would end up with a
connected set of packet radio netnews nodes.

A message needs only to be screened when entering the amateur packet
radio netowrk.  Of course, if a control op notices a message is
inappropriate, he still has the responsibility to remove it.  But,
since it only needs to be screened on entry, other nodes that receive
it do not need to screen every message that comes by.  Only those
messages that enter a system from non-amateur nodes need screening.
Of course, other paths still exist for other messages to be
distributed to non-amateur nodes.

There are a number of advantages to this scheme.  Among these are that
only messages already on the amateur side end up on amateur systems
without screening.  One also ends up with distributed moderation.
I think this scheme tends to better integrate that packet side of
things with the existing netnews system.

    ~ Cliff (N1DMM)
12-Jul-87 16:29:30-EDT,1649;000000000000
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Date: 7 Jul 87 08:51:32 GMT
From: rutgers!okstate![e-mail] (Kurt F. Sauer)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: TCP/IP Through the Ether: Primers?

I am searching for information about packet radio networks which we might
be able to apply to a problem for the Civil Air Patrol in Oklahoma.  We own
a 140 MHz NBFM channel which we'd like to use for data communications.  For
the moment, we have no existing equipment (except for a digipeter); I'd
like to establish a usable network over this channel.

It's a foregone conclusion, in my mind, that the amateur community has the
best collective knowledge of digitial radio technique, and I'd like to tap
it for our project.  If you know of a successful TCP/IP implementation (I
believe Phil Karns has such an implementation), would you **please** send
me information--technical or otherwise--about its successes and drawbacks
via e-mail?  We're all volunteers on this project, and this is a difficult
project to research with positive results.  We thank you, in advance, for
anything you might be able to provide to us.

Sincerely

    Kurt F. Sauer
    Tulsa OK


13-Jul-87 22:13:01-EDT,1361;000000000000
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From: gatech!udel!rochester!cornell!batcomputer![e-mail] (Mitch Collinsworth)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Questions from a newcomer...
Summary: PK-1 can monitor trashed frames
Date: 13 Jul 87 12:47:12 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>

>I don't know
>of any other TNC or program that copies bad frames. I think it is not
>considered worth to do it because you cannot do anything with those
>frames except monitor them.

GLB's PK-1 has a "Garbage Mode" in which it will monitor all received
packets, good or bad.  I don't know first-hand, but that probably means the
PK-1L will do it too.  Of course, the PK-1 does its decoding in software
like you, so it doesn't have that particular hardware limitation.  (The
ones it does have are much worse.)

-Mitch Collinsworth, K2VD


13-Jul-87 22:58:47-EDT,1361;000000000000
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From: gatech!udel!rochester!cornell!batcomputer![e-mail] (Mitch Collinsworth)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Questions from a newcomer...
Summary: PK-1 can monitor trashed frames
Date: 13 Jul 87 12:47:12 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>

>I don't know
>of any other TNC or program that copies bad frames. I think it is not
>considered worth to do it because you cannot do anything with those
>frames except monitor them.

GLB's PK-1 has a "Garbage Mode" in which it will monitor all received
packets, good or bad.  I don't know first-hand, but that probably means the
PK-1L will do it too.  Of course, the PK-1 does its decoding in software
like you, so it doesn't have that particular hardware limitation.  (The
ones it does have are much worse.)

-Mitch Collinsworth, K2VD


15-Jul-87 19:58:22-EDT,2575;000000000000
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Date: 13 Jul 87 16:39:44 GMT
From: ulysses!faline!thumper![e-mail] (Phil R. Karn)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: 56kbps packet at ARRL Convention

Last night I returned from the National ARRL Convention in Atlanta.  There
was a lot to keep the packeteer interested. Dale Heatherington, WA4DSY,
presented his 56 kilobit modem to the packet forum, and the local packet
radio group demonstrated several operating units down on the exhibit floor.
These things really work! The biggest problem now is in getting digital
devices to generate and sink data as fast as the modems transfer it.

Two special units were also built to operate on 220 Mhz at 28 kbps. Dale
added Motorola CVSD codecs to make pair of complete digital voice radios.
If it didn't say "digital modem" on the front of the unit you wouldn't be
aware your voice is being digitized. You even get a "squelch tail" caused by
random data from the descrambler being fed to the codec between loss of
signal and the dropping of carrier detect.  The next step, of course, is
true packetized voice running atop IP...

Except for digital voice, all testing has used my TCP/IP package and
specially modified K3MC KISS TNC-2s. Nothing else (i.e., TNCs with stock
AX.25 or NET/ROM code) has been capable of driving the modems fast enough. I
will be working on TCP/IP drivers for some new 8530 add-on cards for the PC
so we can eliminate the TNCs altogether.

I have received two sets of blank beta test boards for the modem. I'll
report on them here once I get them built and operating. I consider this
modem to be the most exciting development in amateur packet radio to date.
With them a complete set of computer-to-computer networking protocols like
TCP/IP can finally begin to show its power.  I believe the combination is
now starting the "second packet radio revolution".

Doug Drye, KD4NC, is coordinating the modem beta test. He will announce
general availability at a later date; please don't pester him with questions
until then.

73,
Phil


19-Jul-87 18:25:34-EDT,1209;000000000000
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Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1987  14:09 MDT
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Sender: [e-mail]
From: Keith Petersen <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Connecting an IBM-PC to the Arpanet

I would like to contact anyone who has successfully connected an
IBM-PC/XT to the Arpanet.  I mean *directly* to the net, not through a
TAC or intermediate host.

I need to know about the equipment required to interface between the
network and the PC.  I cannot use Ethernet.  My access would be via a
leased line of some type.  Because of cost considerations this
probably would NOT be a 56kbps link.  More than likely it would be
9600bps.

Cost considerations are a factor.  I have a limited budget.

--Keith Petersen
Arpa: [e-mail]
Uucp: {bellcore,decwrl,harvard,lll-crg,ucbvax,uw-beaver}!simtel20.arpa!w8sdz
GEnie: W8SDZ
20-Jul-87 02:25:29-EDT,1050;000000000000
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To: Keith Petersen <[e-mail]>
Cc: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Connecting an IBM-PC to the Arpanet
In-Reply-To: Your message of Sun, 19 Jul 87 14:09:00 -0600.
         <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 87 21:37:40 PDT
From: Milo S. Medin (NASA ARC Code ED) <[e-mail]>



Good Grief man, can't you even afford a low end SUN?  In any case,
I believe FTP software has a PC/TCP driver for an X.25 card that lets
it talk to PSN's...  Give them a call.  They are good folks, and
do good work...

                        Milo

PS A PSN port is a terrible thing to waste...
21-Jul-87 10:36:48-EDT,701;000000000000
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From: ihnp4!gwspc![e-mail]
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To: [e-mail]
Subject: LIST

Please remove me from the packet-radio and ham-radio mailing list..
I am currently getting netnews on a reliable basis.
-Gary

23-Jul-87 01:00:29-EDT,3690;000000000000
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Date:    Thu, 16 Jul 87 22:36:07 PDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: 6th Networking Conference in August
To: [e-mail]

I received the following from Harold Price, NK6K with the request to make
sure that it got wide distribution -- Tom
            -----------------------------------
Msg # 7840  Type:B  Stat:$  To: ALL   @MDCBBS  From: NK6K    Date: 870717/0152
Subject: 6th ARRL Networking Conference
Bulletin ID: NET_CONF

R:870716/1451z @:W5XO Gause, TX #:4257 O:NK6K
R:870714/2144z @:KR5S Sedona, Az. #:6640  O:NK6K   F:145.01/14.109
R:870713/0102  @:WB7BNI [Phoenix,AZ.] #:243 O:NK6K
R:870713/1632  @:NK6K   Redondo Beach, CA  #:8167 O:NK6K F:145.36/.01

ARRL Packet-Radio Conference

The Sixth ARRL Amateur Radio Networking Conference will be hosted
by the TRW Amateur Radio Club and the Southern California Digital
Communications Council.  The conference will be held at the TRW
Space and Technology facility located on Compton Boulevard
(between Freeman Avenue and Aviation Boulevard), Redondo Beach,
CA, on Saturday, August 29 from 9 AM to 6 PM.

The actual site is the TRW cafeteria just south of the white
high-rise TRW administration building.  A separate dining room
will be set up for demonstrations. Demonstrators will be allowed
to enter the facility at 8 AM for set-up.  A beginner's
presentation will be given at 9 AM.  The main conference will
start at 10 AM.  The talk-in frequency is the W6TRW repeater,
145.32, input down 600 kHz.

The TRW ARC swapmeet will be located about 1/4 mile from the main
cafeteria, personnel will be on hand for directions.  The
swapmeet starts at 7 AM and runs through the morning.  There are
usually 300-400 sellers at this event, if you haven't been there
before, plan to do so.

There are no commercial food establishments within walking
distance; numerous eateries are within a short drive.  Consider
bringing a box lunch.

The official hotel for this year's conference is the Torrance
Marriott, 3635 Fashion Way, Torrance, CA; for reservations phone
[phone].  Say you're going to the Computer Networking
Conference.

If you wish to propose any special activities for this event,
please feel free to contact Wally Linstruth, 133 East De La
Guerra #10, Santa Barbara, CA  93101 (805-966-6424).

Authors may submit papers for the conference proceedings until
the end of July, contact Lari Weinberg at the ARRL HQ.

The high-rise TRW building and the area near the cafeteria was
the background for a scene on the planet "Deneva" in the Star
Trek episode "Operation Annihilate".  This is just one of the
"only in LA" features, so make an extra effort to attend.

You are invited to announce your intent to attend by sending a
message to NK6K @ NK6K on packet, or to 71635,1174 on Compuserve.
If you want to reserve space in the demonstration area, please
call Harold Price at [phone].

The ARRL Digital Communications Committee will meet on Sunday,
August 30, at the Torrance Marriott, further details will be
available at the Saturday conference.
/EX


25-Jul-87 03:02:26-EDT,1100;000000000000
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Date: 25 Jul 87 04:57:41 GMT
From: rutgers!mtune!ky2d-2![e-mail] (Hermann)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Emergency communications

During the past 6 years, I have been heavily involved in emergency
communications (in West Germany). Now, I got the PACKET flu ...
I am looking for any experience/ideas on usage of packet in emergency
communications/public service. I am locally in touch with several
hams of the same interest. If you have a contribution, your input is
really appreciated! Just post it here ...
73, Hermann Schumacher
DF2DR/W2
Red Bank NJ


25-Jul-87 12:34:42-EDT,1483;000000000000
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Date: Sat, 25 Jul 87 15:36:04 MEZ
To: [e-mail]
From: [e-mail]
Subject: question of a newcomer (kl7na)

Re: Question of a newcomer, from KL7NA-9

Dear Rob,
In his answer to the question, if a normal TNC in able to show wrong
Packet-frames, DK8hi@db0hb ([e-mail]) says it is not.

I'm using a standard TNC2 and this maschine is able to do it.
You just have to say :  "mall yes"
(which meens monitor all frames, including bad ones)

Good luck with Packet-Radio.
73 Jan.                          Hildesheim, den 25. Juli 1987

--------------------------------------------------------------------
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ARPA   : [e-mail]
Phone  : [phone] h, 05721-883-468 w
Work   : University of Hildesheim, Dept. of Physics
Letter : Marienburger Platz 22, 3200 Hildesheim 4, West-Germany
Packet : DD8OA@DB0FD
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28-Jul-87 01:46:10-EDT,1239;000000000000
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Date: 28 Jul 87 02:03:22 GMT
From: rutgers!sunybcs!boulder![e-mail] (Bob Coggeshall)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: is rec.ham-radio.packet gatewayed to packet anywhere ?

I just bought a TNC for 2m and am starting to learn about it. I have it
hanging off an ATT 3B2, and was considering putting up readnews on it
so the local packet community could read (and maybe post to) this group.

Is there anyone out there that knows if anything like this has been done ?

tnx de n0hfv

--
| bob coggeshall                 | internet: [e-mail]   |
| uucp: seismo!hao!boulder!coggs |   bitnet: coggs@colorado       |
| phone: [phone]                                             |


28-Jul-87 13:12:05-EDT,3238;000000000000
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Date: 25 Jul 87 13:47:50 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Brian Kantor)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Sixth ARRL Networking Conference [possible repost]
Keywords: packet,ARRL,networking

>From: NK6K
>Date: 870717/0152
>Subject: 6th ARRL Networking Conference

ARRL Packet-Radio Conference

The Sixth ARRL Amateur Radio Networking Conference will be hosted
by the TRW Amateur Radio Club and the Southern California Digital
Communications Council.  The conference will be held at the TRW
Space and Technology facility located on Compton Boulevard
(between Freeman Avenue and Aviation Boulevard), Redondo Beach,
CA, on Saturday, August 29 from 9 AM to 6 PM.

The actual site is the TRW cafeteria just south of the white
high-rise TRW administration building.  A separate dining room
will be set up for demonstrations. Demonstrators will be allowed
to enter the facility at 8 AM for set-up.  A beginner's
presentation will be given at 9 AM.  The main conference will
start at 10 AM.  The talk-in frequency is the W6TRW repeater,
145.32, input down 600 kHz.

The TRW ARC swapmeet will be located about 1/4 mile from the main
cafeteria, personnel will be on hand for directions.  The
swapmeet starts at 7 AM and runs through the morning.  There are
usually 300-400 sellers at this event, if you haven't been there
before, plan to do so.

There are no commercial food establishments within walking
distance; numerous eateries are within a short drive.  Consider
bringing a box lunch.

The official hotel for this year's conference is the Torrance
Marriott, 3635 Fashion Way, Torrance, CA; for reservations phone
[phone].  Say you're going to the Computer Networking
Conference.

If you wish to propose any special activities for this event,
please feel free to contact Wally Linstruth, 133 East De La
Guerra #10, Santa Barbara, CA  93101 (805-966-6424).

Authors may submit papers for the conference proceedings until
the end of July, contact Lari Weinberg at the ARRL HQ.

The high-rise TRW building and the area near the cafeteria was
the background for a scene on the planet "Deneva" in the Star
Trek episode "Operation Annihilate".  This is just one of the
"only in LA" features, so make an extra effort to attend.

You are invited to announce your intent to attend by sending a
message to NK6K @ NK6K on packet, or to 71635,1174 on Compuserve.
If you want to reserve space in the demonstration area, please
call Harold Price at [phone].

The ARRL Digital Communications Committee will meet on Sunday,
August 30, at the Torrance Marriott, further details will be
available at the Saturday conference.


29-Jul-87 18:00:19-EDT,1801;000000000000
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Date: 29 Jul 87 13:17:11 GMT
From: mcnc!ece-csc!ncrcae!ncr-sd!ncrlnk!ncrwic![e-mail] (John Pedersen)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: is rec.ham-radio.packet gatewayed to packet anywhere ?
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: ncrwic![e-mail] (John Pedersen)

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bob Coggeshall) writes:
>
>Is there anyone out there that knows if anything like this has been done ?

Theres been some talk (read argument) lately about a moderated group being
formed that could be filtered by someone so that you could set up forwarding
of this newsgroup to your local packet frequency. Didn't go very far.

I've always wondered (for those of us without easy access to HF gateways,
worm-holes, etc.) if someone has set up forwarding of packet mail through
the USENET to a friend who has similar "quasi-free" access to this network.

How about it fellow packet SYSOPS? Anyone out there doing this?

--
John Pedersen             {hplabs!hp-sdd              }
NCR Corporation           {pyramid!bigbang            }!ncr-sd!ncrwic!jpederse
Electromagical Engineering{seismo!esosun!ucsdhub      }
[e-mail] {sdcsvax,cbatt,dcdwest,ihnp4}