World of Ham Radio 1994 January

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------------------------------------------------------ From: The Circuit Cellar BBS 203/871-1988 Messages concerning X-10 interface and BSR modules February 1988 ------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 41 *GENERAL* 02/06/88 14:26:08 From: JEFF KERNER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: BSR MODULES Dear Steve Are the "Plug 'N Power" modules sold by Radio Shack the same as the BSR modules you condemned in your July '83 article "Build the RTC-4 Real-Time Controller", or have they remedied the problems. I have a need to control 20+ lamps/appliances in association with a home security/convenience system at my parents residence. Things like the pump to their solar-heated swimming pool (sounds like the typical California stereotype doesn't it...), the sprinkler system, etc can all be run with a simple on/off control. As for the "Plug 'N Power" modules, they're a lot easier to use than running wires with relays, but I don't enjoy throwing money away either! So how 'bout it, Steve. Are these things any better 5 years later? Thanks!! -Jeff Kerner Msg#: 42 *GENERAL* 02/06/88 14:27:02 From: EDDIE WHITE To: JEFF KERNER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 41 (BSR MODULES) If you will look at the current Radio Shack flyer, they are selling a toy to control BSR/X-10 modules. There is now a company X-10 Ltd. that is the division of BSR that makes any BSR "approved" module. As I understand it, RS bought this gadget from GE who had it built to their specs by X-10 before GE got out of the market. It looks like it will do what you need. Eddie Msg#: 43 *GENERAL* 02/06/88 14:27:36 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: EDDIE WHITE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 42 (BSR MODULES) BSR is no longer in the module business. A group of employees bought out the business and the company is called X-10 (USA) Ltd. X-10 makes all the modules and controllers that are private labeled and sold by companies like Radio Shack, Sears, Stanley, and so on. I did see that Radio Shack bought out GE's HomeMinder and is offering it in their latest catalog. Looks like a good deal. By the way, all the reports of false triggering and reliability problems with X-10 modules during the past few years have been corrected in the redesigned versions of the modules. The old modules were mostly brown and had the house code and module number dials on the sides of the module. Those were the flakey ones. The new modules are mostly ivory and require a screwdriver to set the codes. They are completely redesigned and very reliable. A look inside reveals marked improvements from the old design to the new. Msg#: 44 *GENERAL* 02/06/88 14:27:56 From: EDDIE WHITE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 43 (BSR MODULES) Ken, I wanted some info on the new modules and after a bunch of phone calls I was able to talk to one of their engineering managers. He told me that X-10 was a us} US subsidary of BSR, ltd. But what your saying may be the }ireal story. I went ahead and bought one of the Homeminder toys. Its kinda neat. The cpu board is sealed up in soldered box and all I could see through holes in the top was a z80 cpu. Wish I knew what video chip they were using. thanks }iEddie Msg#: 45 *GENERAL* 02/06/88 14:28:41 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JEFF KERNER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 41 (BSR MODULES) Apparently the new X-10 modules are better than the old ones (they seem about the same in my experience, however). Regarding the X-10 computer interface, it can be connected to any computer that has one input and one output bit (a parallel printer port will do). You merely send it TTL data which it transmits to the AC line. If you subscribe to INK now you won't miss it. To my knowlege, I believe Ken already has the transmitter running on the BCC-180. The only thing holding up the article right now is X-10. They are upset about how much detail I want to devulge about their system and they don't want me to build and X-10 command receiver (which is the companion article). I'm still negotiating. Believe it or not, I proposed this $30 X-10 interface to BYTE and they didn't want it. They (the editor in chief, that is) said it wasn't in the best interest of their audience (maybe they have been writing to a different group than I have). I should be looking at articles (mind you, not projects) that have a broader appeal. -- Steve Msg#: 46 *GENERAL* 02/06/88 14:29:01 From: JEFF KERNER To: EDDIE WHITE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 42 (BSR MODULES) Eddie, Thanks for the tip! I'll check it out. I haven't seen the flyer, though. I usually get about 2 or 3 of those things and they usually get tossed out by my girlfriend who diligently tries to keep my apartment from looking like the TRW swap-meet. Any idea what RS calls this "toy"? -Jeff Msg#: 47 *GENERAL* 02/06/88 14:29:30 From: EDDIE WHITE To: JEFF KERNER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 46 (BSR MODULES) They call it "Homeminder". When it comes up with its id screen it has a GE copyright. I went ahead and bought one and stayed up all night playing. (I had a bucnch of modules I had nev_er used) When I got this one, it was the only one in town I could f}iind. Eddie Msg#: 157 *GENERAL* 02/09/88 21:44:03 From: RICHARD DOERING To: JEFF KERNER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 41 (BSR MODULES) The "Homeminder" is GE's failed attempt at what they called a "Home Control System". It orginally retailed for something like $400 back in 1984. Radio Shack got their hands on the thousands sitting in the warehouse and did a slick job of reworking them. They covered over all the GE labels with theirs, rewrote the manual with their name on top and even made a brand new box to hold the system in. All this for $60 is a pretty good deal! I had to buy one just to say that I had the first attempt at Home Control by a huge consumer electronics giant! You should have seen the look my wife gave me when she saw me take the thing out of the box (brand new) and proceed to rip all the Radio Shack labels off of it! Oh well, living with a certified electronics kook, she is used to seeing me rip apart brand new "toys". In any event, the point I wanted to make is that wouldn't it be ironic if the first failed attempt at Home Control by a major company turns into the first mass market home control success by another major company (the Shack). I think the price is what kept people away from products like this in the first place! Enough of the soapbox. I really wanted to make my first message on the new system a really LONG ONE so I could give this thing a good test. I love the new FAST RESPONSE of this system. Msg#: 300 *GENERAL* 02/14/88 10:46:03 From: EVAN HOLLANDER To: JEFF KERNER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 41 (BSR MODULES) Jeff, While the radio shack homeminder has some neat features the home control system provided by Steve's byte article some time ago is quite a bit more flexible than the homeminder. I am currently using one with about 22 modules to control most of the lights in my home.Several are turned on by presence. ( a passive ir detector sees you and the HCS turns the light on). I have been very pleased with the reliability of the HCS and the relative ease of use. Evan Msg#: 1129 *GENERAL* 03/16/88 08:59:25 From: ROBERT MCILVAINE To: JEFF KERNER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 41 (BSR MODULES) Jeff, I have been tinkering with the BSR controller stuff for several years. I have not found the units to particularly un predictable. I did at first and spent a considerable amount of time researching carrier current operation techniques. My research on this actually started back in college where I ran the campus radio station on carrier current. The units, transmitters or receivers are sensitive to line impedence changes particularly between phases of the 240/110 VAC line. This can be overcome with a couple of tricks. I have recently completed and am working on rev 2 of a stereo control interface which is controlled by the BSR carrier signals (ie. I acn control my stereo from anywhere there is a controller or a computer with BSR output capabilities). Would love to talk about this home control stuff all day but in closing let me say I puschased one of the Radio Shack/GE HOME MINDER. I think it's a neat box. Msg#: 48 *GENERAL* 02/06/88 14:36:48 From: GARY D PACK To: ALL USERS Subj: BUS INTERFACE I have a small problem I hope someone can advise me on. I'm designing a project that has a microprocesser that will have as a peripheral a modem chip. I want the micro portion to run on battery on power failure, while the modem chip will be powered by AC only. Obviously I can't just have that chip on the buss but would something like anding the inputs to the output enable of a buss interface chip, with the processor control line and a 5 volt line powered from the AC only side provide adequate to provide isolation.(I wonder if I could make that sentence any longer?) Hope thats clear enough. Any comments would be appreciated Gary Pack Msg#: 77 *GENERAL* 02/07/88 02:09:16 From: EDDIE WHITE To: STEVE CIARCIA Subj: X-10 Steve, Some time ago I called the people at X-10 trying to pry new information out of them. I've lost my notes, but the guy I talked to was adamatly opposed to releasing any info. In fact when I told him that I had an article in front of me by you-know-who,he said, "well, thats just impossible; never heard of it and it will never happen." What is the deal with those people? Can they stop you from publishing an article on X-10 toys? Eddie Msg#: 111 *GENERAL* 02/08/88 12:11:27 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: EDDIE WHITE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 77 (X-10) There's freedom of the press and reality. Sure, I can publish anything I want but if I care that the info is to be use by the readers, its best that I don't do it without the blessing of the company that manufactures the stuff that I use in the article. Unfortunately, X-10 is paranoid. They think that every time I tell anybody what's in their little boxes that the whole world is going to rip off their design and put them out of business (perhaps this should be an indication of just how solid their patent really is). I have an X-10 transmitter interface article planned for a future issue of INK (BYTE doesn't want anything that reeks of home control anymore). The transmitter is made by X-10 and the article would be on interfacing it to various computers. I also plan a companion 120 KHz AC line receiver article that would allow full duplex AC line communication as well as control. X-10 is adamantly against me presenting any kind of a receiver and is screaming patents/law suit if I tell you how to make a stinking 120 KHz AC line receiver. Well, I'm not thrilled with anyone telling me what I can't do so we'll see about that. Unfortunately, I want the device that they plan to manufacture (the transmitter) if I P____ them off then anyone reading the project will have trouble getting it. Instead, I wish that a few of you guys would write to Dave Rye at X-10 (hey Ken. You got an address?) and suggest that my writing article enhances their sales. BYTE and these guys are all making a big mistake again. They think that "hacker" means dumb and no money. But, what do you expect from people who never correspond with their audience, only their ad reps. -- Steve Msg#: 158 *GENERAL* 02/09/88 21:56:28 From: RICHARD DOERING To: EDDIE WHITE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 77 (X-10) It would seem to me that X-10's main source of income is from selling the little receiver modules by the zillions and not by selling transmitters. Any OEM that puts an X-10 transmitter in their product is automatically going to stimulate alot of sales of receiver modules. It would take a mega company, like Black & Decker, to compete with X-10 on receiver modules and not Ciarcia or Micromint. I've spoken with the folks at X-10 along these lines in the past year and I really think they miss the boat. The first really good mass marketed Home Control System is going to have and X-10 transmitter in it and possibly even an X-10 receiver to process messages as well. X-10 will probably want to sue the maker, but will look pretty ridiculous if thousands of their receiver modules are sold because of it.