home *** CD-ROM | disk | FTP | other *** search
- VIRUS-L Digest Friday, 3 Nov 1989 Volume 2 : Issue 230
-
- VIRUS-L is a moderated, digested mail forum for discussing computer
- virus issues; comp.virus is a non-digested Usenet counterpart.
- Discussions are not limited to any one hardware/software platform -
- diversity is welcomed. Contributions should be relevant, concise,
- polite, etc., and sent to VIRUS-L@IBM1.CC.LEHIGH.EDU (that's
- LEHIIBM1.BITNET for BITNET folks). Information on accessing
- anti-virus, document, and back-issue archives is distributed
- periodically on the list. Administrative mail (comments, suggestions,
- and so forth) should be sent to me at: krvw@SEI.CMU.EDU.
- - Ken van Wyk
-
- Today's Topics:
-
- CRC checking
- Re: Checksum programs
- Re: Self-checking programs (PC)
- Re:Virus source available in Toronto
- DBASE Virus and SCANV47 (PC)
- decompiling a virus
-
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
- Date: Wed, 01 Nov 89 00:00:00 +0000
- From: "Prof Arthur I. Larky" <AIL0@LEHIGH.BITNET>
- Subject: CRC checking
-
- A CRC will work if you:
-
- (1) Keep the polynomial secret and personal.
-
- (2) Keep the comparison information secret and
- personal.
-
- You can accomplish (1) by having the checker ask for the
- polynomial (or some portion of it) when you boot up and start
- the checking. The checker should NOT store the polynomial on
- disk anywhere.
-
- You can accomplish (2) by having the checker ask for the
- check file name and/or path when you boot up and start the
- checking.
-
- Both of these are a pain to do, but losing everything on
- your hard drive is much more of a pain. Of course, you should
- still do regular backups (I do lots of program development, so I
- back up everything on floppy as soon as I create it) and have
- someone's program watching your disk for you.
-
- The basic rule is: Be Different! MSDOS is vulnerable
- because it is so well-known how to write lethal things to disk.
- If you name your checksum file "Checksum.fil", you are looking
- for trouble! I know I can find a name and a sub-directory for
- it that I wouldn't recognize a month later.
-
- Art
- CSEE Dept
- Lehigh University
- Bethlehem, PA
-
-
- Disclaimer, disclaimer, disclaimer
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: 01 Nov 89 20:53:10 +0000
- From: len@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Leonard P Levine)
- Subject: Re: Checksum programs
-
- kerchen@iris.ucdavis.edu (Paul Kerchen) writes:
- > This point brings up a problem which is common to most checksumming
- > solutions: where does one store these checksums and their keys? If
- > they are stored on disk, they are vulnerable to attack just like
- > programs. That is, a virus could infect the program and then update
- > its checksum, since the key must be somewhere on disk as well (unless
- > the user enters it every time they compute a checksum--yecch!) and one
- > must assume that the checksum algorithm is known.
-
- The checksum program and the checksum should be stored in a place that is
- different on each machine. Furthermore, there is no special "best"
- crc or testing algorithm, many will do with varying polynomials.
-
- A satisfactory system is one in which each user can use a polynomial
- of his/her choice and where the list of files and their crc's
- (for example) is stored in some arbitrary location. No virus writer
- will be looking for YOU, rather just a collection of systems that
- are alike enough to infect.
-
- When dutch elm disease comes around, you should look like an oak tree.
- Be different enough so that only a specific attack can defeat your
- defences, not just some attempt to infiltrate command.com.
-
- + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +
- | Leonard P. Levine e-mail len@evax.cs.uwm.edu |
- | Professor, Computer Science Office (414) 229-5170 |
- | University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee Home (414) 962-4719 |
- | Milwaukee, WI 53201 U.S.A. FAX (414) 229-6958 |
- + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: 02 Nov 89 02:02:35 +0000
- From: berman-andrew@YALE.EDU (Andrew P. Berman)
- Subject: Re: Self-checking programs (PC anti-virus protection)
-
- In article <0006.8911011255.AA25780@ge.sei.cmu.edu> leif@ambra.dk (Leif Andrew
- Rump) writes:
- >If a virus killer can patch a program so can a virus! Exactly as virus
- >detectors is able to find a virus by looking at the code so is the
- >virus able to detect the virus killer and disable it! That's life!!
-
- I wonder if that's actually the case. Consider that most of the virus'
- created so far have been under 3 kilobytes. A virus must be somewhat
- small to avoid detection- a 40k patch to every program could be detected
- visually by the user with a 1 meg floppy disk. Perhaps a very complex
- virus killer could patch a program in such a way that only a very complex
- virus could unpatch it- a patching algorithm X with a proof on the order of
- "patch algorithm X cannot be unpatched by a program with less than 100k" or
- something like that might do some good.
- Or, perhaps we could design patches that might be unpatchable by a
- short virus, but would take a great deal of time. We're not really too
- concerned about length of time it takes to patch, since that only would
- occur once for each program. Thus, a patching algorithm X which can
- be proven to be computationally-hard to unpatch would be effective because
- the virus might be required to take up a great deal of computer time,
- again providing a means to alert the user.
-
- Frankly, I find the stuff fascinating... I think there's some
- theoretical computing issues involved here, but hey, what do I know, I'm
- only a grad student.
-
-
- Andrew P. Berman
- berman@yale.edu
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: Thu, 02 Nov 89 18:47:07 +0100
- From: fbihh!swimmer@uunet.UU.NET (Morton Swimmer)
- Subject: Re:Virus source available in Toronto
-
- kelly@uts.amdahl.com (Kelly Goen) writes:
-
- >Yes it is indeed true that viral sources are published in several
- >areas... however "Viruses , A high Tech disease" published only
- >overwriting viruses!! more similar to a logic bomb as when they infect
- >the target executable the file is immediately destroyed(VERY EASY to
- >detect) by the overwriting process. However any COMPETANT Assembly
- >coder can manufacture far more unobtrusive viruses if he just thinks
- >about it!! the published sources working or non working are really not
- >that much of a threat...
-
- Oh yes they are!
- It is very much easier to start from a working source
- than to start from scratch. Irrespective if you are
- "competant" or not. Just take the source, think of
- something and implement it. It will take you far less
- time, and the inhibition is far less. This is exactly
- what happened to one of the viruses published in
- R**** B*****'s book. Not long afterwards, presto! we
- had the Vienna (648) virus!
- Granted, its just a small chip off the block, but
- you must try everything to win this war.
-
- Cheers, Morton
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: Thu, 02 Nov 89 15:09:50 -0800
- From: portal!cup.portal.com!Alan_J_Roberts@Sun.COM
- Subject: DBASE Virus and SCANV47 (PC)
-
- A number of folks have looked at the DBASE virus (Ross
- Greenberg's discovery), including Joe Hirst, Steffan Campbell and T.B.
- Allen, and the general consensus is that the virus is very similar in
- style to the TYPO virus (The COM version). If the author of these two
- viruses is one and the same person, then perhaps the DBASE author has
- not completely been "re-habilitated" as Ross Greenberg has suggested.
- If this is the case, then the DBASE virus may have been placed into
- the public domain (and would indeed account for the inexplicable DBASE
- problem reports that have been received over many months by the CVIA).
- Accordingly, SCAN V47 has been updated to include a check for this
- virus. Better safe than sorry.
-
- Alan
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: Thu, 02 Nov 89 22:30:19 -0800
- From: ames!dhw68k.cts.com!stein@apple.com (Rick 'Transputer' Stein)
- Subject: decompiling a virus
-
- I just finished reading "With Microscope and Tweezers: An Analysis of
- the Internet Virus of Nov. 1988" by Eichin and Rochlis in the
- Proceedings of the 1989 IEEE Symposium on Security and Privacy. They
- discuss the decompilation process but only in a vague sense. What is
- decompilation?
-
- Do you actually have to take apart a core dump, find the opcodes,
- operands, and build a hi-level pseudocode from this? Is there an
- automated tool, or hunk of software which decompiles images for you?
- How do you detect a virus in core with a "process interagator" if
- something like this exists.
-
- - --rick
-
- ------------------------------
-
- End of VIRUS-L Digest
- *********************
- Downloaded From P-80 International Information Systems 304-744-2253
-