NetNews Usenet Archive 1992 #26

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Internet Message Format | 1992-11-11 | 19.5 KB

Path: sparky!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!blackbelt From: blackbelt@cup.portal.com (Ben - Williams) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics Subject: Re: Open Letter Message-ID: <69329@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 18:12:30 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <69310@cup.portal.com> Lines: 378 pk/ASDG says: ------------- In this, the week that Art Department Professional was overwhelmingly voted the 1992 Reader's Choice for Best Imaging Processing Program and MorphPlus was used to create one of TV'S most highly rated shows (Quantum Leap), we have been viciously savaged by what must be considered: sour grapes. Black Belt responds ------------------- No one around here has any sour grapes. We just responded to the misinformation you peddled in your comparison sheet. As for what readers "must" do, says who? You? You think people will do what you say they "must" do after they've found out about the marketing trash you've been peddling? Wake up and smell the coffee, man! Most people who are interested in this long drawn out issue will read all of it and make up their OWN minds; you won't have the opportunity to make their minds up for them. Overwhelming vote? See my later comments, below. pk/ASDG says: ------------- Mr. Williams (of Black Belt Systems) said we are liars. He said that our... Black Belt responds ------------------- I said ASDG's ads lie; that ASDG's comparison sheet was loaded with misrepresentations, and that Mr. Kivolowitz personally had performed incredibly biased, unethical comparisons. Let's keep this straight. A misrepresentation is a description where the item described is not *correctly* described. It may or may not be a lie; attribution of fault is another issue, although clearly in this case it was either intentional (a lie) or as a result of gross irresponsibility on ASDG's part, for instance as regards Imagemaster's onionskin interface. pk/ASDG says: ------------- ...company (which earned the only Amiga Community Service Award ever given)... Black Belt responds ------------------- So what? What has this to do with anything? Black Belt has performed plenty of REAL public service; free software dedicated to the handicapped (JakeBoard, TalkBoard), for instance, and more. What a load of rubbish you spout. Stick to the issues. What did you get your community service award for? Morphing? Image Processing? Wasn't it something to do with the quality of the Amiga images output from AdPro? If so, isn't it ironic that Imagemaster produces FAR better Amiga mode images than AdPro2 does - so much so that any product which uses 16-color AdPro2 produced images instead of 16-color Imagemaster produced images will be looking much worse than it otherwise could? Some "service" you've done them then, eh? ...actually hates the Amiga community and strives like a dark force to deceive it at every turn. He says we have contempt for Amiga users and that his company is, but the victim. Black Belt responds ------------------- I don't recall saying anything of the kind - anywhere. Mr. Kivolowitz, present the evidence to prove your point - quote me *exactly* and attribute the source so others can verify that I did indeed say this. Readers, I *guarantee* this will not happen, because I never said this thing. What is going on here is that Mr. Kivolowitz is attempting to promote hysteria for his own purposes. In our response, I said that GVP was a victim of ASDG's biased "morph comparison" - I didn't say we were victims of theirs. Mr. Kivolowitz does seem to have a great deal of contempt for accurate attribution, though, I'll give him that. pk/ASDG says: ------------- We hope that any thinking person will see through this less than artful play for sympathy. We think that most people will recognize the structure of negative campaigning at its worst: if you are guilty of something, accuse your opponent of that charge so that if he responds, it will look like name calling. Black Belt responds ------------------- We don't need sympathy - have not asked for it - and say emphatically that the above paragraph is the worst kind of deception. However, since Mr. Kivolowitz has been forced to resort to hyperbole, distortion and imaginary quotes here in his response, you can see that he no longer has anything to say about the issues - we wonder just who it is that is looking for sympathy here. We wouldn't call it artful, however. pk/ASDG says: ------------- We offer only the following response to this latest episode of sour grapes: 1. Mr. Williams says we have lied about the capabilities of his product. Their own documentation shows that the features we claimed they didn't have (which he claimed they did - ergo we lied) were in fact added after our comparison was drawn and published. Black Belt responds ------------------- As noted in our response, some items ASDG wouldn't have known about, and so are not "lies" at all. Others (like the Onionskin interface, detailed a bit more below) they WOULD have known about, as stated in the response, and are clearly characterizable as untruths. That makes SOME of the presentation in the ASDG comparison sheet lies, and SOME of it unknowns. We called them ALL "misrepresenations", which is 100% accurate and clear use of the english language leaving interpretation of motive up to the reader or to Mr. Kivolowitz to present. We stand by what we said, it's 100% accurate, and we invite interested parties to check for themselves. This subject is the perfect example of how Mr. Kivolowitz shoulders aside the truth in favor of rhetoric. In our response, the word "lie" was used exactly ONCE. It was in reference to the ads ASDG placed, where they made several claims that were patently untrue. The numerous untruths in the comparison sheet were addressed as exactly that - misrepresentations - which does not say that they are intentional lies. We did say that we thought that ASDG should have KNOWN they were untrue because they made comparisons based upon the information we KNOW they had because of tests Mr. Kivolowitz claimed he performed. So, either Mr. Kivolowitz was lying about his tests, or they do have a later copy of Imagemaster, and they were totally off-base for the comparison. If they do have it, do you think it is responsible to make a comparison without learning the competing product thoroughly? If they don't have it, do you think that the comparisons Mr. Kivolowitz has made re speed, quality and etc are viable? This is the proverbial "caught between a rock and a hard place". Welcome to the real world, Mr. Kivolowitz. By the way, our comparisons are based upon the copies of Morph Plus and CineMorph we legitimately own. We registered them both immediately. ASDG either has no copy of Imagemaster, or didn't bother to register it. Isn't that interesting? We thought so. Going back to the onioinskin issue for a moment, let's put things in perspective. Imagemaster had its onionskin interface in place and shipping before Morph Plus was ever released - we were shipping it at the Pasadena WOA, when the "product" Morph Plus was a videotape, no more. So, we have ONLY two choices here. Either the ASDG comparison sheet was made up before Morph Plus was released (in which case it's entirely specious and should be ignored, as the comparisons were not made to contemporary products) or ASDG screwed up the comparison somehow. So, the comparison sheet (which says we do not have onionskin at all) misrepresents Imagemaster here, no matter what. Other cases are similar, but this makes a great example. pk/ASDG says: ------------- 2. He says that ASDG is riding Black Belt's coattails. Again, consulting Black Belt's own documentation shows that 27 out of the last 47 features or changes to their product have either been features already present in ASDG products or have been bug fixes to features (added to their product which were previously found in ASDG products). Black Belt responds ------------------- We introduced affordable morphing to the desktop PC. We developed the market for it; we invented the vector endpoints paradigm. ASDG is most assuredly riding on our coattails here. So? ASDG and GVP's *entire* Amiga morph products are in many ways after the fact copies of the morph part of the functionality of Imagemaster, a Black Belt Systems product; which is fine, imitation being the sincerest form of flattery. CineMorph takes a pretty different approach (grids), while Morph Plus directly appropriated the vector endpoints architecture that Black Belt Systems invented and introduced to the computer marketplace. Ok, fine. Ideas can't be copyrighted, we know that and respect the law's position on it. All three products were coded independantly and as such represent perfectly viable approaches. Now, if we turn around and add a feature here and there which (usually in a more limited form) may have appeared first in ASDG's Morph Plus or GVP's CineMorph, we're not likely to feel guilty about it - ASDG and GVP set the pace here (which we're NOT complaining about, you'll note). Note that the features that Mr. Kivolowitz mentions here are not the same as those in Morph Plus at all. In fact, for the most part our features are vastly better performing and more flexible than anything available in Morph Plus. How so? Can you pan images independantly in Morph Plus? No. Can you zoom images independantly in Morph Plus? No. Can you pan OR zoom in _separate_ windows in Morph Plus? No. Can you apply a _local_ control grid in CineMorph? No. Can you extend a vector to a spline in Morph Plus? No. Obviously we're not running around spending our time "cloning" the other product's various functionalities. We're sure you get the idea. Mr. Kivolowitz is full of beans. pk/ASDG says: ------------- 3. He says that MorphPlus is too difficult to use. If that were the case, why would Black Belt try so hard to include the very same features which they say make our product difficult to use? (see (2) above) Black Belt responds ------------------- We don't - and we did not say that, either. Morph Plus is more difficult to use because it's not intuitively designed - no argument from us there, plus that's what our customers tell us, it's not just OUR opinion. Of course, it's also more difficult to get the effects you want because Morph Plus is missing a LOT of capability that Imagemaster has, but that's another issue, isn't it. The word "difficult" was used in our response only once, in the context that Morph Plus is missing the ability to adequately control either transparency or velocity outside the context of a group, to wit: "a smooth, multiple source dissolve (or velocity change) using Morph Plus is _difficult_ or maybe even impossible to do." Note how Mr. Kivolowitz has twisted what was said to his own ends, even though in fact no statement like this was made. In fact, look at what what WAS said near the end of our response: "I would only further point out that for the extra effort and money invested in either Imagemaster or Morphplus, in addition to or instead of CineMorph, you'll have more features at your beck and call and you'll be able to do a larger number of things, which, if you're serious about morphing at all, you are likely to find useful." Clearly, we were not "savaging" Morph Plus - only the comparison of all three products, which was NOT fairly done. Note that we've posted a comparison which contains all of the ASDG issues verbatim for Morph Plus, repaired for Imagemaster, with added issues which make the comparison more fair. Further, it's online, ready for revision by ASDG (it doesn't compare GVP's product, although they are invited to add or change their own portions, as are ASDG). ASDG did NOT post their comparison online, they just sent it off to dealers without verifying ANYTHING with us or presenting it to us online so we could comment before they sent it out. Nice, eh? We play fair. We beleive GVP has also. ASDG - well, you decide. pk/ASDG says: ------------- 4. Mr. Woodall, representing GVP'S morphing product, dismissed much of our comparison as saying that MorphPlus has many features which they consider ``unnecessary or irrelevant''. Black Belt responds ------------------- And we agree with Mr. Woodall - ASDG's comparison was abysmally biased, unfair, and poorly conceived. GVP's morphing product was unfairly characterized as having no important features by the use of a carefully exclusive comparison format by ASDG. If you have CineMorph, and you read the ASDG comparison sheet, likely your overwhelming reaction will be the same as mine was: "So what?" That's what Mr. Woodall said - "uneccesary or irrelevant", which equates to a user's (mine, certainly) reaction of "so what?" Remember that GVP is just as much of a competitor here to Black Belt Systems as is ASDG; even more so by virture of price and speed. So, if we're so worried about things, why don't we "go after" GVP? Why just go on about ASDG? Simple answer - we're not worried about either one of them, and GVP has played very fair to date. ASDG is not playing fair, and we will NOT put up with it - everyone loses to no justifiable purpose. If we were to fall back due to a better product, that would be one thing. If we were to fall back due to bogus ads, comparisons and generalized BS'ing, we would object, and so we won't let it happen no matter how hard Mr. Kivolowitz tries to make things out as other than they really are. No one should want to see another MS-DOS takeover here. Marketing is marketing, and the truth is the truth - there is NO inherent relationship between them, only that which people have the honor to create, if indeed they do at all. pk/ASDG says: ------------- Our strong ties with the special effects community (who suggested many of our ``unnecessary'' and ``irrelevant'' features in the first place) would argue that it is exactly these ``unnecessary'' and ``irrelevant'' features which makes their work easier, faster, more precise, and more sophisticated. Black Belt responds ------------------- We all take feedback from our customers, this is just so much hype. And since Black Belt has far more special effects capabilities, and far more customers using our morphing software, it's clear that we have "stronger ties" to the "special effects community" than ASDG does. But so what - all three companies do this (I assume). I only address it because Mr. Kivolowitz attempts to make it look important and a win for ASDG. It is neither, in this context. Some things the ASDG sheet implied, such as lack of "AdPro compatibility", are indeed irrelevant because when the issue is Imagemaster, for instance, the customer gets more, and better, image manipulation and rendering capability than AdPro2 can supply _entirely_ within Imagemaster! pk/ASDG says: ------------- 5. The very Amiga community (which we are alleged to despise) will do all of the bottom line deciding that is necessary. Black Belt responds ------------------- Mr. Kivolowitz alleged it - no one else. Remember that! The word "despise" does not appear in our response. We are in agreement that the community will decide, certainly. We've said so all along. pk/ASDG says: ------------- In a very real sense, it already has: voting Art Department Professional the Best Image Processing Product of 1992 and making ADPRO the best selling image processing product available for the Amiga. Black Belt responds ------------------- We complement you on your marketing expertise. It's a good substitute for being the best, as you have found out. So... where did you get this vote? Who counted the ballots? Who decided who was going to GET ballots? Isn't it strange that of 100 Imagemaster customers polled randomly by telephone today, NONE were aware of any such "vote" or "poll"? Also, *I* am *still* not aware of any vote or poll. Isn't that strange? Could it be *possible* that the "vote" Mr. Kivolowitz refers to is not representative? I got no poll from any magazine, Commodore, or anywhere else, and I am a VERY heavy user of image processing tools myself, besides working for a company that makes them. It is clear that whereever this poll came from, it's not accurate. Does a political poll taken of libertarians reflect a valid majority opinion of the entire electorate? Of course not. pk/ASDG says: ------------- 6. The professional television and motion picture industry will likewise separate the claims from the hype. Black Belt responds ------------------- That they will. Your marketing strategies will make it take longer, but I believe that the backlash against you personally ought to be very amusing when it happens. We're only sorry the rest of the people at ASDG are likely to suffer for your unethical actions. pk/ASDG says: ------------- In a very real sense, *they* already have: Within a month of release, MorphPlus has been used to create principal effects for Quantum Leap (one of the most highly rated shows on television), Babylon 5 (a technological marvel which does all Amiga owners proud), two major motion pictures whose names I cannot pass on at this time, several other television shows including Mysteries From Beyond The Other Dominion from the Science Fiction channel, several commercials, and other projects now in development. Black Belt responds ------------------- Oh, brother, is it getting deep in here! Imagemaster was in well over a *hundred* high-end professional productions (movies, network productions, commercials, etc) and many more middle-level commercial productions before Morph+ was even released. It continues to replace AdPro *and* Morph+ installations at a fine rate - and we have the registration sheets with customer testamonials to back that claim up. In fact, we wouldn't be surprised if Imagemaster has been used in more commercial productions than the total number of Morph Plus copies sold - remember that we've been providing Morphing in Imagemaster since February of 1992, about 10 months now - nine months longer than ASDG or GVP. Imagemaster sells as well as the ASDG product AdPro2, and in fact outsells it handily on occasion. We even manage to do this with hardly any ads... while ASDG advertises constantly and in a widespread manner. Isn't that strange? pk/ASDG says: ------------- In closing, we have faith in our ability to produce a superior product, and we are confident that the Amiga community will always respond to a superior product. We happily submit ourselves to the only test which matters. Yours. Black Belt responds ------------------- Here, we agree. We have our own faith in our products and our skills. Better than that, we have a consistant history or passing ASDG up on feature after feature. Ask our customers who own both products - most would be happy to tell you so. Ben Williams President Black Belt Systems