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- From: Bill.Carlson@p0.f18.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Carlson)
- Newsgroups: alt.messianic
- Subject: An Old Question For Robert A. Levene
- Message-ID: <140964.2B019B08@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
- Date: 11 Nov 92 21:16:10 GMT
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- To: swarren@convex.com
-
- SW> Date: 9 Nov 92 18:46:24 GMT
- SW> Message-ID: <1992Nov9.184624.7800@news.eng.convex.com>
- SW>
- SW> In article <9211060339.AA12234@aplpy.jhuapl.edu>
- SW> levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu (Robert A. Levene) writes: >
-
- -=> Quoting Steve Warren to Robert A. Levene <=-
-
- SW> You argue that he does not hold to Pharisean conventions, but
- SW> Paul himself stated that he considered his education as a Pharisee
- SW> to be dung.
-
- Actually, I think the context meaning of what he was trying to
- say, is that EVERYTHING comparied to Messiah in the mundane, is
- as dung. This includes even those things that Messiah Himself
- has commanded us concerning. Not that those things in his "list"
- are dung, but that if it become an "opponent", then it is dung.
- Go back and re-read that portion, and see if he is calling all
- those things "dung" by themselves, or in comparison.
-
- SW> He once was a Pharisee, but he was most definitely not a Pharisee
- SW> when he wrote the epistles. Demonstrating that he did not act
- SW> like a Pharisee is simply proof that the change he was declaring
- SW> in Yeshua was genuine and effective in himself. No one who trusts
- SW> in Yeshua remains the same.
-
- Well..., actually, that has to be qualified too. He DID say late
- in his ministry when before the Beit-Din in the Book of Acts, that
- he IS [present tense] a P'rush/Pharisee. You see, being a
- Pharisee in and of itself was not bad, it is just that there were
- bad P'rushim, ... and good P'rushim too. Nichodemus was a P'rush
- for one example, so was Yosef of Arimathea {sp} if I recall
- correctly.
-
- SW> As far as being a henchman for the High Priest, far from it; Saul
- SW> was motivated by an intense zeal such that he was willing to use
- SW> whatever authority existed in the land in order to have permission
- SW> to root out the followers of the way. He was not acting on behalf
- SW> of the Priests; he was acting on behalf of his own zeal and
- SW> concern for the nation. If this happened to coincide with the
- SW> desires of the Priesthood then so be it. He was not alone among
- SW> the Pharisees of that day, although you may wish to distance the
- SW> Pharisees from that outbreak of persecution. If other Pharisees
- SW> participated in the same way then your argument is shown to be
- SW> fallacious.
-
- Of course, this would be correct. While the P'rushim didn't
- like the Tz'dukim, both were in the Sanhedrin, and if one did
- something on behalf of the Sanhedrin, it was usually at the
- request of the Tz'dukim, {who mostly were Priests}, but were
- powerful and in political power. So..., there was very likely
- much working together - while they each bit their own tongue.
-
- ... 012 Think not that I am come to annul the Torah or the Prophets: 210
- --
- Bill Carlson - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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