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- Xref: sparky sci.crypt:3245 alt.security:4370 comp.security.misc:1252
- Newsgroups: sci.crypt,alt.security,comp.security.misc
- Path: sparky!uunet!mcsun!sunic!aun.uninett.no!nuug!nntp.nta.no!hal.nta.no!styri
- From: styri@hal.nta.no (Haakon Styri)
- Subject: Today's conspiracy theory (was: ATM fraud)
- Message-ID: <1992Sep15.122125.1967@nntp.nta.no>
- Sender: news@nntp.nta.no
- Nntp-Posting-Host: balder.nta.no
- Reply-To: styri@nta.no
- Organization: Norwegian Telecom Research
- References: <1992Sep8.115050.8694@cl.cam.ac.uk> <BuL2pH.6s3@visix.com> <1992Sep14.085441.28829@nessie.mcc.ac.uk>
- Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 12:21:25 GMT
- Lines: 48
-
- In article <1992Sep14.085441.28829@nessie.mcc.ac.uk>, Simon Read writes:
- >
- > Unfortunately the banks are not interested in security. [project story deleted]
-
- Of course they are, but if they don't loose anything (themselves) they cannot
- secure that <nothing>, can they? :-) I guess what we need is some legal
- case, some really bad publicity (on the behalf of banks) and maybe a law or
- two to make this security "worth the cost" for banks. Who should pay the cost,
- however, the customers or the owners, that's outside the charter of this group
- to discuss.
-
- > The only security a bank customer has is the security of his PIN. The banks do
- > say "TREAT THIS CARD LIKE CASH" (from an ATM here); they don't provide advice on
- > keeping your PIN safe though. The naivete of Joe Public is immense, as is
- > illustrated by password/PIN frauds; but the banks and others must have some duty
- > of care surely? Why don't they provide more advice on when to use your PIN and
- > when not to? How to prevent the guy behind you in the ATM queue from seeing your
- > PIN?
-
- Well, why don't CNN or any other tv station make some feature on the topic?
- The naive Joe Public v. the "hear no evil, see no evil, say no evil" banks
- should make an interesting show.
-
- (For a good story about a related problem, read Forbes Magazine, Aug. 3, 1992.)
-
-
- In article <BuL2pH.6s3@visix.com>, Ken Mayer writes:
- >
- > Face it, no matter how sophisticated you make your authentication
- > scheme, if the end user doesn't know how to take adavantage of it,
- > they're going to get ripped off. You are much better off trying to
- > educate them (a lost cause, but far cheaper than technological slight
- > of hand), in hopes that someone learns something.
-
- That's maybe a related problem to the above. John Doe doesn't understand
- how "open" the system is today, and there's a limit to how advanced the
- systems can be before he's unable to use them.
-
-
- Btw., can anybody out there give one or two really good reasons for using
- only 4 digit PINs? Why do all these cards have 4 digit PINs? Even my one
- time password cards use a 4 digit PIN. (Ok, I wouldn't feel much safer
- with a 6 digit PIN. Maybe there's some logic there after all - at least
- the public isn't fooled into believing that a longer PIN would be safer.)
-
- ---
- Haakon Styri *** std. disclaimer applies ***
- Norwegian Telecom Research
-