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- Path: sparky!uunet!usc!lkimes
- From: lkimes@alshain.usc.edu (Lance 'Moof' Kimes)
- Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk
- Subject: Re: Novell servers running Internet Router
- Date: 8 Sep 1992 10:17:28 -0700
- Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
- Lines: 64
- Sender: lkimes@alshain.usc.edu (Lance 'Moof' Kimes)
- Distribution: world
- Message-ID: <lapo18INN62i@alshain.usc.edu>
- References: <1992Sep3.043801.24066@gatech.edu> <1992Sep5.002727.10444@novell.com>
- NNTP-Posting-Host: alshain.usc.edu
-
-
-
- We finally got a REAL and HONEST answer from someone at Novell. I applaude you.
- When will the no-routing version be ready? Netware servers were about to be
- tossed around here, but if you've got a solution we'll try it.
-
- Lance Kimes
- Systems Programmer
- USC
-
-
- In article <1992Sep5.002727.10444@novell.com>, brianb@wc.novell.com (Brian Bulkowski) writes:
- |> Hi,
- |> The real reason we designed it this way was two fold:
- |> 1) It was a heck of a lot easier to do in the time we had with the
- |> tools and source code bases we had. We had the AppleTalk router
- |> from the fastpath, we had (ancient, I've heard they've cleaned it up)
- |> Portable AppleTalk code from Apple. We had to mate the two together,
- |> an internal net was ideal.
- |> 2) To protect administrators from themselves. If AppleTalk homes on
- |> a particular card, then all AppleTalk services are slave to that card
- |> and network being up. By homing on an internal net, we can keep AppleTalk
- |> services up as cards are bound and unbound, as configuration changes.
- |>
- |> Since we realize that this isn't an ideal situation, a future release
- |> will include the ability to run without the router. Another configuration
- |> will allow routing, but the stack will be homed on a particular interface.
- |> But it was the best we could do at the time.
- |>
- |> WRT your feeling that the extra routers slow down a net - I don't think
- |> this is a real concern, unless you run with localtalk backbones. Even with
- |> 50 nets, that won't even get you three packets. Thus, for each router you
- |> generate 3 packets every 10 seconds, even without split horizon. If you had
- |> 10 servers on a backbone, we're talking 3 packets per second without split
- |> horizon, and probably 1 packet per second with. With NBP and all your servers
- |> in the same zone, things get a bit worse, since a FwdReq will be generated
- |> for each server, but if you split your zones humanely you wouldn't incur
- |> more than a few extra packets per lookup. With ZIP the only extra traffic
- |> is when a net goes up or down.
- |>
- |> The main reason that we found for everyone hating "router on always"
- |> was that a network number had to be assigned for each server. Thus, the
- |> far flung server, under some strange administrator, had to be more closely
- |> tied into the network administration. This is our main motovation for
- |> moving to the no-router case. I think the other problem, that people don't
- |> want extra router on their network, is based in fear of the unknown rather
- |> than real technical problems. I know of a network far worse, with about
- |> 50 Novell AppleTalk servers ON ONE NETWORK on ethertalk with T1 *repeaters*
- |> between the ethernet segments. 1200 devices in one network. And it works,
- |> mostly, and RTMP, ZIP, and NBP from the extra routers are the least of
- |> their worries.
- |>
- |> BTW, I find the terminology of "Novell Internet Router" confusing. Any
- |> router is, by Apple definition of the word, "Internet". It routes between
- |> two nets. However, it confuses with the Apple Product "Apple Internet Router",
- |> aka AIR. So, "AppleTalk Router" should be sufficient.
- |>
- |> I hope this clears up any confusion, and shows that Novell is answering
- |> the demands of the marketplace in this regard. We hear you!
- |>
- |> BrianB
- |> AppleTalk transport project lead
- |> brianb@wc.novell.com
- |>
-