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- From: fc03@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Frederick W. Chapman)
- Newsgroups: sci.math
- Subject: Re: Proof of God's Existence
- Message-ID: <1992Sep4.014519.241818@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>
- Date: 4 Sep 92 01:45:19 GMT
- Organization: Lehigh University
- Lines: 110
-
- In article <1992Sep1.213206.18901@griffin.itc.gu.edu.au>, jchen@tomahawk.me.gu.edu.au (Jinghong CHEN) writes:
-
- [...]
-
- >Proof of God's inexistence:
- >God can do anything.
- >So he can make a stone which he cannot lift.
- >So he cannot lift that stone.
- >So "God can do anything" is wrong.
-
- Well, if God is going to create a stone so heavy that He cannot lift
- it, He better decide BEFOREHAND where He wants to put it (so that He
- doesn't create a never-ending Clash in the Cosmic Decor). By the way,
- if God can do ANYTHING, then he can defy Aristotelian logic; i.e., He
- can lift a stone that He cannot lift. AND, He can create "the set of
- all sets that do not contain themselves" -- out of pipe cleaners!
-
- Yes indeed, folks, it looks like the immovable objection has finally
- met the irresistable farce. :-)
-
- ...........................................................................
-
- Kidding aside, I think the "Can God make a stone so heavy that He
- can't lift it?" question is just a variation on the "What happens
- when an immovable object meets an irresistable force?" paradox. It's
- more to the point to ask "Can God create that which cannot exist?" or
- "Can God do that which cannot be done?"
-
- Actually, to show that God CANNOT do everything, one need look no
- further than to theology itself; that God has certain limitations is
- an important article of faith in some religions (e.g., Christianity).
- For example, from the notion of the intrinsic moral purity of God, it
- follows that God is incapable of committing evil. So there you have
- it, direct from the theologian's mouth -- something that God cannot
- do. In fact, according to (Christian) theology, there are lot's of
- things God cannot do: God cannot lie, cannot break His promises,
- cannot fail to exact justice, cannot contradict Himself, and cannot
- alter His own essential characteristics.
-
- When theologians speak of God's omnipotence, they do not mean that God
- can do ANYTHING WHATSOEVER, but that God can do anything that is
- LOGICALLY CONSISTENT WITH HIS OTHER INTRINSIC QUALITIES (e.g.,
- righteousness, truthfulness, faithfulness, justness, self-consistency,
- constancy, etc.) and CONSISTENT WITH LOGIC ITSELF (but not necessarily
- consistent with the laws of the physical universe as we understand
- them; i.e., God CAN manifest Himself via miracles). It seems to me
- that logical consistency is essentially an article of faith and serves
- to define what we mean by "omnipotence"; i.e., logical consistency is
- really an axiom of this theological belief system, and helps us
- delimit our understanding of the scope of God's abilities by ruling
- out paradoxes such as those posed above.
-
- The notion of unqualified omnipotence clearly -- and necessarily --
- results in paradoxes, but no theologian uses omnipotence in this
- sense; certain qualifications to the meaning of "omnipotence" are
- tacitly assumed, as described above. "Unqualified omnipotence" is not
- a well-formed concept -- in the same way that the "set of all sets
- that do not contain themselves" is not a well-formed concept. (I have
- a funny feeling that the two are related in some way, but I can't
- quite make the connection precise.)
-
- And now, back to our regularly scheduled silliness.
-
- ...........................................................................
-
- "I can't change the laws of physics!"
- -Lt. Commander Montgomery Scott (Chief Engineer, Starship Enterprise)
-
- "I can."
- -God (Chief Architect, the Universe)
-
- ...........................................................................
-
- ASCII VERSION OF A FAMOUS RELIGIOUS PAINTING:
-
-
- ## #
- # ###
- # #
- # #####
- # #
- # ###
- ## #
-
- ##
- ##
- ##
- ##
- ##
- ##
- o
- \
- :-) + -- < ==
- \
-
-
- For extra credit:
-
- 1) What is the name of this painting?
- 2) Who painted the painting?
- 3) Is the man in the painting facing the proper direction?
-
- --
-
- o ------------------------------------------------------------------------- o
- | Frederick W. Chapman, User Services, Computing Center, Lehigh University |
- | Campus Phone: 8-3218 Preferred E-mail Address: fc03@Lehigh.Edu |
- | "The day after yesterday is the second-to-last day before |
- | the rest of your life the day after tomorrow." |
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-