NetNews Usenet Archive 1992 #19/NN_1992_19.iso/spool/misc/consumer/15633

Internet Message Format | 1992-08-25 | 3.4 KB

Path: sparky!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!guvax.georgetown.edu!cfhammer
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Hot Pepper (was re: mace followup)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Aug 92 18:17:36 -0400
References: <[e-mail]>  <sch.714760567@gargoyle>
Summary: fbi or modern warrior research?
Keywords: mace or oleoresin capsicum
Distribution: na
Organization: Georgetown University
Lines: 59

In article <sch.714760567@gargoyle>,
             [e-mail] (Steve Holzworth) writes:

> This is an article I saved from a rec.martial-arts post awhile back.
> It gives convincing evidence that NONE of the current irritant sprays,
> including pepper-based sprays, work effectively.

and includes a 229 line post from [e-mail] (Rich Travsky),
who in turn quotes an article by Phil Messina "WHAT A DIFFERENCE A
GOAL MAKES! THE CHEMICAL IRRITANT EXPERIMENTS"

to summarize, mr. messina describes experiments performed by martial
artists set out to perform a goal (i.e. withstand the spray and complete
an attack). all examples given indicate that chemical irritants (mace
and oleoresin casicum) are useless.

an article i read in "combat handguns, dec 91" by neal fortin (a police
equipment reviewer), describes a trial the author underwent to test the
compound oleoresin casicum, an extract of hot pepper. he describes immediate
incapacitation due to pain. he adds that immediate, _involuntary_ spasm
and closing of the eyes, coughing, etc. also occurs due to inflammation
of the mucous membranes. the author strongly recommended oleoresin capsicum
over mace.

mr. fortin also refers to fbi research on field experiences of police
departments (10% capsicum). only one failure-to-incapacitate was reported
(heavily drugged user, sprayed at a distance (read: possible miss)).

i can see both sides of this. a person that is trained to ignore pain
(and yes, martial arts training does involve pain) may be able to overcome
sensations (pain) by willpower. a person set out to prove that chemical
sprays don't work may skew the results with determination (bias). but what
i don't understand is how one can overcome _involuntary_ responses due to
inflammation of the mucous membranes (i.e. holding back violent coughing
from inhaling the compound).

so one is left to query the conditions of the experiment. what percentages
(1%, 5%, or 10%) was used? did the participants close their eyes or hold
their breath (which is what i would do if i knew i was going to get red
pepper in the face)? as the participants were not surprised by the method
of attack and no mention of these important parameters were made in the
original article, i could understand the results if the spray was not
inhaled or applied to the eyes.

but who is right? i carry oleoresin capsicum in the backcountry as a bear
deterrent (when one can't rely on martial arts!). until now i had hoped
that oleoresin casicum would have been sufficient - i have trusted credible
names in the field rather than resort to experiment (i.e. if one wants the
most effective bullet, one trusts statistical compilations by mr. marshall,
one don't go out and shoot alot of people :) ). thus i have never had the
opportunity to resort to the spray, but (as i doubt mr. messina's
experiments in the field) i would like to hear from any who have field
tested the spray. was it effective?

thanks in advance,

-ming

ps. uh, i'm not calling for new tests . . .