NetNews Usenet Archive 1993 #3/NN_1993_3.iso/spool/soc/singles/37612

Text File | 1993-01-23 | 6.9 KB | 136 lines

Newsgroups: soc.singles
Path: sparky!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!tlode
From: [e-mail] (trygve lode)
Subject: Re: Honesty, Your word, and Trust -- a crisis?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (netnews admin account)
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 05:46:44 GMT
Lines: 124


in <[e-mail]>
    [e-mail] (Josh Diamond) writes:

] Having read recent posts here, and noticed events going on out there
] in the rest of the world, I have come to the conclusion there we have
] a major crisis on our hands.
]
] Basically, it seems that as a society, our concepts of honesty and
] trust are all screwed up.
]
] Most people, when asked whether they consider themselves to be honest
] say yes.  And yet, when it comes down to brass tacks, most people are
] _not_ particularly honest. In fact, they are absolutely lousy at
] keeping their word.
]
] An example: How many of you out there have said that you would meet
] someone at a particular place at a particular time, but then been
] late?  If you have, then you have broken your word -- you have been
] _dishonest_.  I don't mean to attach any moral judgement here -- it is
] not good or bad, but merely a fact.

This reminds me of someone I know who has severe, debilitating attacks
of anal retentiveness; this tends to result in conversations along the
lines of

      "I'm going out to pick up a couple of CDs; want to come along?"
      "Which two CDs are you going to buy?"
      "I haven't decided yet; I'll probably figure that out after I have
       a chance to see what they have."
      "Then how do you know you're going to buy two?"
      "I don't; I feel like buying some, but I might not even find any
       that I like."
      "You said you were going to buy a 'couple'--that means two;
       exactly two.  So you lied."

As a result, we don't go shopping together very often.

] How many times have you broken your word in the last year?  Be honest
] with yourself -- count everything from being late for a meeting, to
] not showing up at that party you said you be at, to cheating on your
] SO.  And don't forget the times you broke your word to yourself --
] e.g. broke that commitment to yourself to start working out, or stop
] smoking.
]
] Again, I'm not attaching any morality to this -- there is no right or
] wrong here.  Such broken agreements are not the major problem.  In
] some cases they are inevitable.  But their frequency is a problem.
] Somehow we as a society have come to the belief that our word does not
] matter.  Why?  What is causing this breakdown in honesty?  What has
] made it OK to break our word?

I think the great majority of people let the feelings of others
influence their actions and whether or not others are hurt is much more
important in deciding what to do in a given situation than whether or
not what they do is exactly what they had initially remarked that they
were going to do.  In most people's value structures, being faithful to
a spouse is much more important and deserving of much more attention
than whether you happen to show up five minutes later for a party than
you had said because it took a little bit longer to finish decorating
the hors d'oeuvre tray you're bringing.  The latter incident can't
really be called a 'breakdown in honesty' and it's fairly unlikely that
affairs are that much more common among those who have miscalculated how
long it will take them to get ready for a party and have shown up late.

Further, there are different levels of one's "word."  It isn't simply a
case of every non-explicitly-qualified statement has exactly the same
weight and importance--if I tell you that I'm planning to buy a 3/8ths
inch VSR drill at Sears and, after telling you this, I happen to stop by
Hardware Heaven and discover that they have a terrific sale on drills
and I buy one from them instead, I don't feel I've been dishonest,
deceitful, or in any way harmful to anyone, so I don't worry about it,
nor do I believe that this action makes business contracts that I sign
in any way less reliable.

On the other hand, if I agree to feed your cat for the week you're going
to be away, I'll make sure your cat gets fed; if something happens and I
can't do it, I'll find someone else who can--you may consider the latter
dishonest, because it's not what I said I would do, but I'll still feel
that I've held up my end of our agreement to the best of my ability and
your cat is probably just as happy anyway.

] It seems to me that this can only lead to a breakdown in trust.  If
] our relationship with our word is like it is, how can we trust each
] other?  How can we expect others to trust us when our word does not
] matter to us?

How about on the basis that we expect other people to behave in a
manner that respects our feelings and expectations, with the importance
on living up to their words depending on how important it is to us for
them to do so?  Personally, I'd trust someone who operated on that basis
further than I'd trust someone who operated simply on doing exactly what
he said he would do.  (After all, the former person might agree to drop
off my cleaning that morning and, because of unexpected events, end up
not doing it until the afternoon while the latter would make sure that
my cleaning was dropped off that morning, even if it meant simply
dropping it in the parking lot without stopping the car.)

] Also, IMHO, our lack of trust helps to create an environment where it
] is OK to break our word.  After all, if we don't convey to those
] around us that we trust them, what indication do they have that their
] word makes a difference?
]
] I think that the way to do something about this is to just go ahead
] and break with precedent -- create a present which is completely
] different from the past.  Go ahead and trust -- creating an
] environment where the people you meet understand that their word means
] something -- and that you will not stand for broken agreements.
] And be honest -- creating trust in those around you.  And above all
] else, trust yourself, and be honest with yourself.

I think I'll stick with my current plan of expecting that people respect
me and not engage in activities that harm me--even if they occasionally
show up late or decide at the last minute to use a different recipe for
the brownies they're bringing to my party because they discovered they
were out of unsweetened chocolate and had to use cocoa instead.

Trygve    (What can I say?  I rather like imperfect people--at least
           they don't complain when I say I'm going to eat a couple of
           their brownies and end up munching three.  I do know a couple
           of perfect people (just ask them) but for some reason they
           don't seem to enjoy life nearly as much as I do.)
--
"Inventor discovers how to develop film using human digestive juices!"