NetNews Usenet Archive 1993 #3/NN_1993_3.iso/spool/soc/culture/canada/10256

Text File | 1993-01-23 | 4.4 KB | 96 lines

Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Path: sparky!uunet!stanford.edu!enterpoop.mit.edu!bloom-picayune.mit.edu!athena.mit.edu!cmk
From: [e-mail] (Charles M Kozierok)
Subject: Re: Crime in Canada vs U.S. Why the difference?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News system)
Nntp-Posting-Host: electric-monk.mit.edu
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 01:42:06 GMT
Lines: 83

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
>To start with,
>
>(1)
>How about two-hundred-plus years of uncompensated slavery in the
>US which has put many black Americans into a hole so deep that
>many never get out of it, financially or psychologically.
>I say racial friction, through no fault of the minorities themselves,
>but through the majority that forced, then ignored a completely
>inequitable situation for centuries, is a major cause of crime in
>the US.  Canada has racial tensions too, but several orders of
>magnitude smaller.

the problems relate much more to the poverty and hopelessness
that exist now, not slavery from 200 years ago, though that is an
indirect cause. did you also consider the possibility that
the difference could be made up simply by the greater heterogeneity
of American society, combined with other factors?

>(2)
>The weather.  When it's 40 below, if you don't have a regular place
>to live, and enough to eat (and therefore a job), you die.  The cold
>gets rid of most of the riff-raff (they go pick fruit in the Okanoggan)
>and keeps people from aimlessly wandering the streets much of the year.
>In winter, the most dangerous place is probably the much-touted rubber-
>wheeled heated subway system in Montreal, anywhere between Lionel-Groux
>and Cotes-de-Neiges.  Outside, no problem.  If it's safe in the winter,
>it usually stays that way for the rest of the year (in most places).

your supposition of "the cold getting rid of the riff-raff" is inaccurate.
even in the US there are many homeless people in cold cities (been to NYC
lately?) and it would be *much* easier for them to move to warmer climes.
why don't they?

and given that they do stay in the cold climate, don't they have more
incentive for some crimes, like theft, because of the danger of being
in the cold?

>(3)
>Wealth.  Canada has a vast amount of natural resources and easily tapped
>wealth compared to its population.  In a wealthy society, there is usually
>a non-violent means to get what you want, so why bother.  Even our poor
>live in what would be considered luxurious conditions in most of the
>world.  Wealthy people can afford expensive morals as well (do you think
>Somalians give a hoot whether tuna is dolphin-friendly?)

wrong again. the numbers i have show higher purchasing power in the
US than Canada. regardless of the exact numbers,
the difference in wealth between the US and Canada is not significant
enough to explain even a small portion of the crime discrepancy. the
real answer is in the sentence which begins "In a wealthy society...".
the poor don't have to resort to violent means, true--they elect
politicians to steal for them. happens in the US a lot too, though
less than Canada

>(4)
>Smaller cities and towns.  Big cities are the most violent places on
>earth, possibly because of anonymity.  Small-town USA is about as safe as
>anywhere in Canada, but places like Detroit, Chicago, or Washington D.C.
>have no parallel in Canada.  Smaller places tend to carry more of a
>rural ethic, since many of the citizens are new-arrivals from the
>country-side, or a mere generation away.   Canadians were/are hewers of
>wood and drawers of water, and it shows in everyday life.

baloney. this is an outdated stereotype. the fact is that the relative
growth in urban population compared with Canadian has been much higher
in Canada than in the states. the reason for smaller cities in Canada
is simply smaller population. metro Toronto contains over 10% of the
population of the country--no such proportionately-sized city exists
in the US. a country of 100 people could have 100% urban population
and virtually no crime.

Canadian cities are catching up to American ones. Toronto is a shadow
of its former self, IMO.

>(5)
>Tighter gun laws meanining fewer guns to commit violent crimes with.

agreed.

--
charles