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- Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
- Path: sparky!uunet!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!gatech!rpi!mccomt
- From: mccomt@aix.rpi.edu (Todd Michel McComb)
- Subject: Re: Define "Well Tempered"
- Message-ID: <c8q3-sb@rpi.edu>
- Nntp-Posting-Host: aix.rpi.edu
- Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
- References: <1993Jan26.234010.10975@Princeton.EDU> <qzq3qm#@rpi.edu> <1993Jan27.200659.16713@Princeton.EDU>
- Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 21:07:44 GMT
- Lines: 65
-
- In article <1993Jan27.200659.16713@Princeton.EDU> Roger Lustig writes:
- >In article <qzq3qm#@rpi.edu> Todd Michel McComb writes:
- >>In article <1993Jan26.234010.10975@Princeton.EDU> Roger Lustig writes:
- >[it ain't me, babe!]
-
- The reply to the following was yours, I believe. I apparently deleted one
- too many attribution lines.
-
- >>>>(Question: Are there any serious orchestral or large ensemble
- >>>>pieces written in one of the far out keys? And are there any
- >>>>with piano? If so, what kinds of tuning problems do they have?)+
-
- >>It depends on how one defines "far out" I suppose, but I always thought that
- >>the 12 "standard" keys (derived as some perturbation of Zarlino's previous
- >>discussion on the 12 modal scales) were: C major, C minor, D major, D minor,
- >>E minor, F major, G major, G minor, A major, A minor, Bb major, B minor.
- >>These keys certainly go back to the early days of tonality.
-
- >Well, yes and no. In Italy there was a mapping of eight keys (the so-called
- >"church keys") onto the eight mode names. There may have been a 12-key
- >system, too.
-
- Yes, there was first the eight key system, followed by the twelve key system.
- After that, all hell broke loose! :-)
-
- >Mattheson's discussion of keys and affections has 15 entries, not including
- >B minor but including F# minor. Otherwise, it's very close to Bach's 15
- >in the Inventions and Sinfonias.
-
- Interesting.
-
- >>Chopin certainly used new keys.
- >Well, *unusual* ones. Plenty of people had used them before.
-
- Sure. He gave them more of a life, if you will.
-
- After all, we can't say any key is new after Bach's WTC I. Anyone care to
- supply the first known musical work (actually notated) in each key? That
- might be fun.
-
- >>>Beethoven Sonata Op. 78: F sharp. Moonlight Sonata: C sharp minor.
- >>Beethoven as well -- though it is his Ab major which strikes me as most
- >>impressive in this regard.
- >How do you mean?
-
- Nothing concrete. The Ab does not have the feel of the exotic about it.
-
- >>>The B minor Mass. Mozart's B minor adagio.
- >>There's tons of earlier stuff in B minor. Indeed, wasn't it one of the
- >>most used keys in the early baroque?
- >No. I don't know why you'd say that. Not all that much stuff in B
- >minor, really; Mozart wrote that one movement, and Beethoven called it
- >"Die schwarze Tonart." And barely used it himself. Many writers called
- >it "bizarre" and the like; c-based tunings would easily lead to such a
- >judgment.
-
- I know Beethoven felt that way (giving Liszt his opening, so to speak),
- but it seems that that was a more recent impression. Maybe I'm wrong
- about this. Bach seemed to really like B minor: the Mass, the French
- Overture, the big Prelude & Fugue in WTC I; if we do regard this key as
- unusual, it is also unusual that he wrote so many singular works in it.
- And Corelli uses it all over the place -- even in conservative church music.
-
- T. M. McComb
-
-