NetNews Usenet Archive 1993 #3/NN_1993_3.iso/spool/rec/autos/vw/8440

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From: [e-mail] (Jay Lonner)
Subject: Summary of replies
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Hello,

A few weeks ago I made a post in which I talked about some performance mods I
was considering for my beloved '68 Bug.  I got a lot of thoughtful and helpful
replies, and I appreciate the time everyone took to make them.  A few people
wrote to tell me that they would like me to post a summary of the replies, and
now that the discussion has died down that is what I am going to do.

But be warned -- this is like a 900-line long file, and has not been organized.
I've kept the file headers and stuff so that I'd know who to address specific
responses to.  Anyway, here it is, and thanks again to those who responded!

Jay.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-

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From: [e-mail] (William P. Claspy)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: Engine mods
Date: 6 Jan 1993 20:25:24 GMT
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There must be some sort of rebuilding bug (sorry) going around!  Jay, I say
go for it!  Mostly.

>1) Dual port heads, ported and polished

Sounds great.

>2) New carb(s)...

I'd stick with "new carb" unless you want to get a Syncrhon and have to mess
with calibrating two carbies.  Probably a single Weber would do a real nice job
for you.

>3) "Doghouse" fan and shroud

You've already got these!  "Doghouse" refers to how the fan housing sticks up
in front of the engine on the type I engines.  My type IV ('77 bus) engine is
called a "pancake" because the fan housing lays flat behind the engine.

>4) Remote oil cooler

Never had one, but from what I understand, especially if you are keeping your
engine stock, there really isn't all that much need for an external cooler.
Perhaps you could think about simply putting on a slightly larger than normal
sump.  I think Gene Berg makes some and if he does, they'd be superior quality.
That'd put a little more quantity of oil in the system, helping with the
cooling question.

>5) Get the crankshaft balanced...

If you're going to rebuild, it's best to do the WHOLE thing and do the WHOLE
thing right.  So get the crank balanced and polished.

>6) Free flow exhaust (but one the keeps the heater boxes!)

I've got a Monza that's just waiting to go on my bus.  I've heard a good free-
flow can add a fair amount of HP, but I don't know first hand.  There are some
cheesy ones out there, though, so be careful.

>7) 009 distributor


Yup.  Good idea.

As far as manuals, I'd just start at the beginning of Muir's chapter XV and
follow him step by step, using Bentley along the way when John gets vague.  And
none of this stuff will increase your emissions, in fact I'd wager that
by rebuilding the engine and keeping it in tune and running well will actually
put out less nasties than you are now.

Cost wise, you might want to check around local VW parts houses and see if
any of them have specially priced rebuild kits with all you need.  Otherwise,
use the lists in Muir and add it all up, including any costs for machining (try
and find a local machinist who does lots of VW work.)  You might want to check
around for a local VW club to help you find parts places and machinists.

And most of all, have fun ;-)

Bill
--
William Claspy        Case Western Reserve University
[e-mail]


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From: [e-mail] (Mike Ross)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: Engine mods
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Date: 6 Jan 93 20:54:29 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
>With that in mind, let me list some of the modifications that I am
>considering...
>
>4) Remote oil cooler
>5) Get the crankshaft balanced (I'm not sure what this is either, but a local
>   VW guru told me it was a good idea to increase longevity and reduce
>   vibration, &c.)

All those mod's look good, but unless you're racing or high-revving,
the balanced crank will be expensive.  I would suggest taking your
case to the machine shop to have the jug-holes (cylinder supports)
on the case machined perfectly parallel to the centerline.  This is
known, I believe, as having the case 'decked'.  Most cases have had
these surfaces pounded, such that the cylinders no longer are perpendicular
to the crankshaft.  This causes a lot of friction and a hot-running
engine.

Regarding the remote oil cooler, I believe the dog-house oil cooler
is quite sufficient (make sure the thermostat and the cold-air baffles
and linkage are present and working). I WOULD recommend, however, an oil
filter, they make 'em where the spin-on filter goes on the oil pump at
the rear (REAR is REAR) of the motor.  A remote oil cooler WILL leak,
or at least weep, and make a mess fairly soon.

Remember, stock is the most reliable and most long-lasting, unless you
love to tinker all the time with it.

-mike

--
******************************** [e-mail] *****
* Michael L. Ross/C33 | Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Co.   *
* Robotics Department | 2400 Nasa Rd. 1, Houston, TX 77062    *
*[phone] voice,[phone] fax**********boring, eh?****



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From: [e-mail] (Mark Shaw)
Subject: Re: Engine mods
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A couple of things to ponder if you are going for a complete rebuild and
performance upgrade on an air-cooled engine.

Even if you are not going for high revs, a good engine balance will do wonders
for smoothness and durability.  But, you need to do the complete setup: crank,
pistons, rods, alternator pulley and most importantly the flywheel and pressure
plate. (The clutch disk is of little effect).  Doing a crank balance alone would
be a waste of money.   I went this full balance route on the '62 Bug I built up
some years ago (like in '69).  First I took the flywheel down and had the metal
bulk on the engine side of the ring gear turned down to where the metal thickness
was fairly uniform and equal to the ring gear thickness.  This dropped 8 pounds
of weight from the perimeter of the 22 pound flywheel.   Then I took all the parts
down to a company specializing in engine balancing.  (I used Precision Balancing
in Indianapolis, at the time: not sure if they are still there).  Such a flywheel
trim and full balance gives you an incredibly responsive engine.

The temptation with engine performance mods is to upgrade the clutch, but beware
of those center spring (Belville, I believe) or the so-called over-center clutches.
They are either in or out and difficult to use smoothly on the street.  Just go
for a good heavy-duty pressure plate and better disk material.

I noticed port and polish was on the list.  I did this as well, but found that
it was the cause of a valve failure about a year later.  Be careful to not
remove very much metal around the valve guides.  I completely removed the "bump"
around the guides so there was an more direct path.  This weaken the valve guide
so that it eventually began to wobble.  The valve then wobbled, which caused the
valve head to twist each time it hit the seat.  Eventually, PING! the head of the
valve fell off and found the piston.  The rest I will leave to your imagination!
Morale of the story, keep a fair amount of metal around the valve guides clear
up to their top.

I also agree with "decking" and line-boring the case.

Another trick is to get a fan with fewer blades (I forget which years they
were on) as this will reduce the fan load at high revs.  Of course, you will then
need to keep the revs up to get the same cooling.  Removing the thermostatic
control ring also helps reduce air drag, but will cause the engine to be "cold
natured" during warmup.

Sounds like fun.

Mark


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From: [e-mail] (JOSEPH WAYNE DAVID)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: [A]  Perf. Mods, Case History
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Keywords:

Just a brief article to share some of my experiences with air cooled
VW performance mods. I should point out that I like to tinker with
bugs and do all of my machine work myself, thus saving much money.
I also am not trying to "toot my own horn" but simply share some of my
experiences. Most of the information I have found useful over the years
has come from Gene Berg in Orange, CA.

For the last five years, I have had a '72 bug with the engine described below:

    2180cc (92mm x 82mm), counterweighted crank, balanced assembly
    Ported and polished big valve cylinder heads (40mm x 35.5 mm)
    0.385 in. lift, 310 deg. duration cam (256 deg duration @ 0.050 lift)
    1.5:1 ratio rocker arms with dual valve springs
    Lightened flywheel with 2300 lb Kennedy clutch plate
    Dual Weber 44mm IDF carbs
    Large tube (1 5/8 in.) drag race exhaust system with dual mufflers
    Comp. ratio of about 8:1
    Bosch 009 dist.

This engine makes driving my bug a great deal of fun to say the least.
I regularly turn the engine to 7,200 rpm. I also do power shifts occasionally,
but do not do drag race starts as I do not have the appropriate flywheel or
transmission to do this. I have installed Gene Berg's transmission  and
engine mount and they seem to help. The cooling system is STOCK with the
addition of an external filter.

Problems:

    It seems that most aftermarket piston rings are cast iron. By
    leaning out the fuel/air mixture and advancing the timing, I was
    improving the performance but the increased temperature caused the
    rings to loose their tension and it started pumping oil at
    15,000 mi. Replaced rings, richened mixture, reduced timing advance
    and no problems in another 25,000 mi.

    Valve guides are a problem. Due to the high valve lift and strong
    springs, exhaust guides only last about 25,000 mi. I am currently
    working on what I hope are some solutions.

Cruising on the highway at 70 mph, I get about 25 mpg. The oil temp. cruising
at 70 mph is a consistant 120 deg. F above ambient. I think the low compression
ratio is the key here. I advanced the cam timing a little and thus I have good
idle quality at about 1,000 rpm. I also use 92 octane gas EXCLUSIVELY.

I recenly disassembled the engine and found the case and internals to be in
very good condition. Very little case or bearing wear. The cylinders were out
of round, probably a result of the thin-wall 92mm design. Next engine, I will
follow Berg's advice and use the thick-wall 90.5mm design.


I hope you find this useful. If you have any questions or comments, please feel
free to drop me a note.

Joe


From:    IN%"[e-mail]" 10-JAN-1993 19:51:09.08
To:    IN%"[e-mail]"
CC:
Subj:    Engine mods

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Date: 11 Jan 1993 14:50:24 +1100 (EST)
From: [e-mail] (Luke Brennan)
Subject: Engine mods
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>From: [e-mail] (Jay Lonner)
>Subject:Engine mods

>Hello,

    G'day..

>I have a '68 Bug that's really in pretty good shape.  I'm thinking of tweaking
>the engine a little and I wonder what you residents of netland advise.

    uhuh.. 'tweak' eh? :-)

>Let me note right off the bat that I am not interested in boring/stroking the
>engine, nor do I want to create a hot-rod.  I am interested in improving the
>engine in all respects, longevity included.

    okay..

>With that in mind, let me list some of the modifications that I am
>considering...
>
>1) Dual port heads, ported and polished

    Good.

>2) New carb(s) (I don't know much about the pros and cons of dual carbs,
>   someone want to fill me in?)

    hmm.. depends on *what* you want to do..
    for a stocker, maybe a Holley Bugspray would be simpler/easier..
    (you CAN go off and play with Webers, but it's not *really*
     something I'd consider for a stocker..)

    Personally, I'd leave this to some later time...
    (i.e. YOU have to think about it! :-))


>3) "Doghouse" fan and shroud

    hmm.. yeah.. but then again, why not toss the crankcase and
    get a later one with dual-reliefs, bigger cooler..
    Okay, okay.. first up, get a doghouse! :-)

>4) Remote oil cooler

    GREAT idea - but where are you going to mount it?
    For a stocker... hmmm..  personally I'd leave it off..
    just get a deep sump for starters.. much neater - all that
    plumbing.. :-} (we mount our oil-cooler about the vents, with our
    oil-filter mounted inside the back-seat wall, with the oil-lines
    coming through the firewall..)

>5) Get the crankshaft balanced (I'm not sure what this is either, but a local
>   VW guru told me it was a good idea to increase longevity and reduce
>   vibration, &c.)

    This is **THE** best suggestion you've come up with so far..
    for a long-life motor (of *ANY* description) this is a **MUST**..
    Whatever else you do, make sure you get THIS part done!
    (this has to include the rods, though! Don't think you can just
     have the crank by itself - crank & rods are a single unit when
     it comes to balancing..)
    I'd use std VW rods rather than anything exotic..
    (You aren't going to be spinning 8000rpm? :-})

>6) Free flow exhaust (but one the keeps the heater boxes!)

    yep.. my street car sounds like your proposed car! :-)

>7) 009 distributor

    debatable.. I'd put one on if I wanted to 'wake up' the motor
    a bit, but it all comes back to 'how stock is stock?'..
    Okay, okay.. put it on! :-)

>Now, which of these mods are a good idea, and which are dumb?  I don't live in
>state that has emissions standards, but at the same time I don't want to drive
>the Greenhouse Effect.

    :-) Okay, here's my $0.05 worth.. (they phased out $0.02c here.. :-))

    a decent case (*late* Type-I is best)
    dual-port heads (with port & polish)
    balanced crankshaft
    HYDRAULIC lifters.. (hey it's a street stocker after all)
    dual 44 Webers
    decent exhaust
    009 Bosch distributor..
    deep sump. (this is an easy and GOOD addition)

    this will give you a driveable and livable engine..
    5000rpm would be my limit on this, but it *should* last quite a while.
    (and still be driveable by your mother/whoever)

    I really wouldn't go crazy.. this is *fine* for a street stocker
    daily driver..
    (my engine is reasonably close to this (though includes a few other
     things for a bit more pep..) and I go to 6000rpm with NO problems
     every single day of its life..)
    Yes.. 5000 will see your motor last years and years..

    of course.. if you want POWER then we'll have to spend some money..
    (I can give you a large shopping list ... we spent $5000 on our
     KILLER 2.3l motor...)


>Also, what can I expect to pay for parts and a machinist's time?

    I could only give you $AUS, so that'd be silly..

    though Hot VW's & Dune Buggies lists DEMELLO counter-weighted cranks
    as starting at $109.95.. (which is pretty good)..
    I guess a decent crank & rods would go for $180 -> $500 (US)
    based on their listings... (depending on how wild you were!)

    exhausts seem to be around $50-100..
    a 009 (here) is $80-90, but USA... (turns page..) $50 !!!! *huff* !!
    sumps.. ah.. here's one.. $40
    a Dog-House shroud would be about $50.

        I suggest you zip out and get the latest HOT VW's & Dune Buggies..
    (the one here at work is from November..)


>Lastly, what books might I want to buy?  I already have Muir and Bentley's.

    oh! Well done. They're definately your two first on the shopping
    list.
    hmm.. what else is useful? What about that (I think it's HP)
    "Hot Rod VW engines" (I think it's a yellow cover)..
    probably not *really* necessary, but it'd give you some tips..

    I'll leave the rest for your enjoyment! (I reckon discovering all
    this info is most of the fun!)

    I hope I've been of some help..

    ldcb
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+ Luke Brennan                             e-mail:      [e-mail] +
+ EDP Unit, S209                          [e-mail] +
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From:    IN%"[e-mail]" 11-JAN-1993 16:02:37.08
To:    IN%"[e-mail]"
CC:
Subj:    RE: Engine mods

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Date: 12 Jan 1993 11:01:56 +1100 (EST)
From: [e-mail] (Luke Brennan)
Subject: RE: Engine mods
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    G'day!

> All right! Thanks for the detailed reply!

    no worries - we have an endless stream of VW's in my neck of the
    woods - we KNOW what it's like!

> Lots of people agree with getting the bottom end balanced, which I would love
> to do if I weren't operating under such restricted cashflow.  Since this engine
> was rebuilt maybe 30,000 miles ago, and since I'm not losing any oil to speak
> of, I've been thinking of not doing anything to the bottom end at all WHICH I
> KNOW IS A BAD IDEA!!!!! but I've got a budget to consider.  What's really

    Well... if you're gunna do *any* kind of motor (regardless of how
    hard it's gunna go) make sure that in future you ALWAYS get
    the thing balanced.. It is THE surest way of feeling better about
    a motor.. (and they spin easy, last longer, etc, etc)

> bothering me about this car right now is the carb, it's a 30PICT2 and until it
> warms up it hesitates and gives me all kinds of grief.  (In addition, in the
> winter the oil in the air cleaner gets real viscous and gummy making it tougher
> for the engine to breathe well, I'm getting about 17 MPG right now (sorry,
> don't know what that is in liters per km)).  So the mods that I am considering
> at the present time are mostly based on wanting to replace this carb and
> increase the flow of air through the engine.

    right.. let me think... Paulie grabbed my '76 carb and used that -
    with major improvement!
    I can't for the life of me remember what it was (it was standard)
    as they snaffled it the moment I brought the '76 home!
    17mpg?? yeuk! Should be HEAPS better than that...

    I'd expect mid 20's... (unless you're fighting bumper-to-bumper
    all day...)


> Now it doesn't seem that there's much point in putting on a decent 2-barrel
> without adding dual-port heads &c., hence that mod.  And a free-flow exhaust is
> the next logical step in improving engine aspiration.

    yes. I'd do the 3 together...

> So my relative poverty means that for the time being I'd be adding a new carb,
> new heads, a new exhaust, and maybe something like an external oil filter.  I
> know that it is a BAD BAD BAD idea not to deal with the bottom end, but is it
> such a bad idea that I should blow off the whole project in its entirety?

    Noo.. do those changes - and then start saving for a new
    (late model) case and go from there with another motor..
    It's easier to keep buying the bits when your existing motor
    isn't driving you up the wall! :-)

    In no time flat you'll have 044 heads, Okrasa crank, Porsche rods :-)

    Luke
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+ Luke Brennan                             e-mail:      [e-mail] +
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+ AUSTRALIA                                                               v   +
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From:    IN%"[e-mail]"  "DARIS BOUTHILLIER, CUST SUP SNA, 714 434-2045" 12-JAN-1993 08:24:48.28
To:    IN%"[e-mail]"
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Subj:    Engine mods

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From: "DARIS BOUTHILLIER, CUST SUP SNA, 714 434-2045" <[e-mail]>
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>From: [e-mail] (Jay Lonner)
>Subject:Engine mods
>Date: 6 Jan 93 18:34:00 GMT
>Message-ID:<[e-mail]>

>Hello,
>
>I have a '68 Bug that's really in pretty good shape.  I'm thinking of tweaking
>the engine a little and I wonder what you residents of netland advise.
>
>Let me note right off the bat that I am not interested in boring/stroking the
>engine, nor do I want to create a hot-rod.  I am interested in improving the
>engine in all respects, longevity included.
>
>With that in mind, let me list some of the modifications that I am
>considering...
>
>1) Dual port heads, ported and polished

Dual port heads are an inexpensive way to gain a bit more horsepower.
Porting and polishing aren't going worth the cost on a near stock size
motor.  Check the 041, factory big valve heads, and the 1.25 to 1 rocker
arms out.

>2) New carb(s) (I don't know much about the pros and cons of dual carbs,
>   someone want to fill me in?)

Dual carbs can give you a decent horsepower gain with a few disadvantages.

    1.  They need to be kept syncronized.  This makes tuneups harder.

    2.  They're not legal in some states and the federal government
            is considering federal smog laws which might make them illegal
        in all states, soon.

        3.  When you install them, the carbs must be jetted for your
        engine.  Any engine mods, require rejetting.  It's not too
        hard, but if you don't have a $100 jet reamer set, you have
        to keep exchanging jets until you get it right.

    4.  Some carb kit's linkage suck.  I prefer the linkage (and
        carbs) in the Delorotto kit.

>3) "Doghouse" fan and shroud

The single be modification you can make for your car.  Get the pieces
from a junkyard.  These parts were standard on 71 and later engines.

>4) Remote oil cooler

Forget it.  An poorly located cooler will actuall raise engine temps.
Also, the more connections you have, the better chance of leaks you
can have.  Most VW gurus agree the the doghouse system is the best.

>5) Get the crankshaft balanced (I'm not sure what this is either, but a local
>   VW guru told me it was a good idea to increase longevity and reduce
>   vibration, &c.)

An good idea.  If you can aford a little extra, check out a counterweighted
crank.

>6) Free flow exhaust (but one the keeps the heater boxes!)

If approached in the right manner, a free flow exhaust will help.  Here
are some things to consider:

    1.  Buy a quality AMERICAN MADE system.  The budget "import"
        can actually MORE restrictive than a stock muffler.

    2.  Single mufflers give you better "off the line" response,
        while dual mufflers are slower "off the line" but run
        better at highway/freeway speeds.

>7) 009 distributor

Again, pros and cons.  The 009 gives you faster acceleration but
you give up smoothness a certian points of the acceleration curve.
>
>Now, which of these mods are a good idea, and which are dumb?  I don't live in
>state that has emissions standards, but at the same time I don't want to drive
>the Greenhouse Effect.
>
One modification you missed (with regards to the Greenhouse effect) in an
electronic ignition.  Electronic ignitions boost your coil output and
greatly reduce emissions.

>Also, what can I expect to pay for parts and a machinist's time?
>
Pobably what ever your local market will bear.

>Lastly, what books might I want to buy?  I already have Muir and Bentley's.

Personally, those are the only two books I that I ever use, and the more
experience I get the less I use Muir's book.  Some of the things I've
read in Muir's book scared the hell out of me (i.e. read the crankshaft
gear installation procedure, yikes!).
>
>I know that this is a lot of questions, but I want to get as much information
>as possible before committing myself (and my beloved Bug) to drastic action.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Jay Lonner
>Bellingham, WA
>
>nosig

Hope this helps,
   Daris Bouthillier, VeriFone Inc., Costa Mesa., CA.


Path: henson!ogicse!hp-cv!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!verifone!daris_b1
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: Engine mods
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 11 Jan 93 20:22:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: verifone.1993Jan12.062256.4762
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: VeriFone Inc., Honolulu HI
Lines: 44

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (William P. Claspy) writes:
>
    [ Stuff deleted ]
>
>>3) "Doghouse" fan and shroud
>
> You've already got these!  "Doghouse" refers to how the fan housing sticks up
> in front of the engine on the type I engines.  My type IV ('77 bus) engine is
> called a "pancake" because the fan housing lays flat behind the engine.
>
Not exactly, "doghouse cooler" referrs to the repositioned oil cooler and
fan shroud introduced on the 71 Beetle and Bus.

>>4) Remote oil cooler
>
> Never had one, but from what I understand, especially if you are keeping your
> engine stock, there really isn't all that much need for an external cooler.
> Perhaps you could think about simply putting on a slightly larger than normal
> sump.  I think Gene Berg makes some and if he does, they'd be superior quality.
> That'd put a little more quantity of oil in the system, helping with the
> cooling question.
>
Actually, Gene Berg preaches the merits of the "doghouse" cooler system.
Check out his catalog/tech manual.
>
   [ More stuff deleted ]
>
>>6) Free flow exhaust (but one the keeps the heater boxes!)
>
> I've got a Monza that's just waiting to go on my bus.  I've heard a good free-
> flow can add a fair amount of HP, but I don't know first hand.  There are some
> cheesy ones out there, though, so be careful.
>
Monza exhausts are as restrictive as a stock system, but deeper in tone.
>
   [ Still more stuff deleted ]
>
> Bill
> --
> William Claspy        Case Western Reserve University
> [e-mail]

Regards,
   Daris


Path: henson!ogicse!news.tek.com!tekig7!tekig5!scottmo
From: [e-mail] (Scott John Mockry)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: thermostat
Summary: I would advise staying with the stock thermostat and louvers.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jan 93 01:27:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: tekig7.8225
Sender: [e-mail]
Lines: 34

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jay Lonner) writes:
> Hello,
>
> Is it advisable to remove the thermostat from a Type I engine and just leave
> the flaps open all the time?  I've heard that it increases airflow, but at the
> cost of rough startups (esp. in colder weather).  Are there any other side
> effects that I should look out for if I choose to do this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jay.

Jay,
I would stay with the stock thermostat and louver setup. Gene Berg in
Orange, CA has done extensive testing on the stock cooling system and
has concluded that removing the thermostat, and louvers ends up making
the engine wear out quicker due to longer warm up. If you are concerned
with over heating and high oil temperatures check out your compression
ratio. One problem that occurs with rebuilt vw air cooled engines
(my opinion and Gene Berg's) is overheating due to the compression
ratio being too high for todays gasoline. The heads and case are often
flycut to improve the sealing area and this raises the compression above
the stock ratio. Adding big bore cylinders will do the same unless they
are shimmed under the barrels to increase deck height. My personal
experience has been that my engine (1775cc dual 42DCNF Webers and
9.0 to 1 compression) ran with an oil temperature from 240-260 degrees F
(outside air temp was 80-90 degrees F). Lowering the compression down
to 6.8 to 1 reduced the oil temp to 210 degrees even with outside air
temps of 100 degrees F.  This was using the stock 1971 doghouse cooling
system with a full flow oil filter.  The engine has 88K on it and still
runs great. All of this assumes that your carburation and ignition timing
are set correctly. Contact Gene Berg if you want to become an expert
on VW air cooled engines.
                    Scott


Path: henson!ogicse!emory!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!stanford.edu!rock!taco!david
From: [e-mail] (JOSEPH WAYNE DAVID)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: thermostat
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jan 93 15:20:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: ncsu.1993Jan13.152043.15618
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (JOSEPH WAYNE DAVID)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Lines: 33
Originator: [e-mail]


In article <[e-mail]>,
 [e-mail] (Jay Lonner) writes:
> From: [e-mail] (Jay Lonner)
> Hello,
>
> Is it advisable to remove the thermostat from a Type I engine and just leave
> the flaps open all the time?  I've heard that it increases airflow, but at the
> cost of rough startups (esp. in colder weather).  Are there any other side
> effects that I should look out for if I choose to do this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jay.
>

Most engine wear occurs during the startup/warmup period as the oil is cold
and thick and the internal components are not at the proper temperature.
Also, I have monitored oil temperature on my beetles for about 20 years and
found that they will not warm up (oil temp of about 180 F) during the winter
in NC and VA.

Thus, do not remove the thermostat (Gene Berg is right again). Simply adjust
it so that when it reaches the stop (top of the mounting bracket), the flaps
are wide open. Do this by loosening the bracket mounting nut on the block,
removing the bolt that attaches the bracket to the mount thus allowing the
flaps to open, and adjusting the bracket so that the thermostat touches the
top of the bracket. Tighten the bold on the block and reattach the thermostat
to the bracket.

Enjoy!!!

Joe

From:    IN%"[e-mail]" 12-JAN-1993 10:49:31.87
To:    IN%"[e-mail]"
CC:
Subj:    RE: thermostat

Return-path: <[e-mail]>
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Date: 12 Jan 1993 13:48:59 -0500
From: [e-mail] (William P. Claspy)
Subject: RE: thermostat
To: [e-mail]
Reply-to: [e-mail] (William P. Claspy)
Message-id: <[e-mail]>
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT



Hey now,

I've ripped mine off and had no problem, but a bud of mine just rebuilt his
1600 '71 bus and got one from a junkyard and put it on.  He said "I'm rebuilding
this stock, and the thermostat is stock so I'm putting it on and don't give
me any more grief."  Just don't think it'll make all that much difference.

Bill

--
William Claspy        Case Western Reserve University
[e-mail]



From:    IN%"[e-mail]" 12-JAN-1993 11:20:16.42
To:    IN%"[e-mail]"
CC:    IN%"[e-mail]"
Subj:    RE: thermostat

Return-path: <[e-mail]>
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 12 Jan 93 13:19:44 CST
Date: 12 Jan 1993 13:19:44 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail] (grungy (John F. Gladu))
Subject: RE: thermostat
To: [e-mail]
Cc: [e-mail]
Message-id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Systems Support Center, BCM
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
References: <[e-mail]>

In article <[e-mail]>, you wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Is it advisable to remove the thermostat from a Type I engine and just leave
> the flaps open all the time?  I've heard that it increases airflow, but at the
> cost of rough startups (esp. in colder weather).  Are there any other side
> effects that I should look out for if I choose to do this?

I've haven't had one since 1978.  But, I live in Houston, Texas.  I can't
remember what the engine was like *with* them, it's been so long...

I also took out all of the flaps and the connecting rods...

Could you summarize your answers after they stop coming in?  I'm curious...

bcnu - grungy (John Gladu) '61 Panel, '68,'69 Beetles