home *** CD-ROM | disk | FTP | other *** search
- Path: sparky!uunet!olivea!decwrl!deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!dbased.nuo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!3d.enet.dec.com!roth
- From: roth@3d.enet.dec.com (Jim Roth)
- Newsgroups: rec.audio
- Subject: Re: Jitter Simulation Program
- Message-ID: <1993Jan21.204837.3345@ryn.mro4.dec.com>
- Date: 21 Jan 93 22:30:53 GMT
- Sender: news@ryn.mro4.dec.com (USENET News System)
- Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
- Lines: 96
-
-
- In article <1993Jan19.230006@trc.amoco.com>, znpt01@trc.amoco.com (Norman P. Tracy) writes...
- >In article <1993Jan19.092845.24382@ryn.mro4.dec.com>, roth@3d.enet.dec.com (Jim Roth) writes:
- >>
- >> Clock jitter causes low index phase modulation of spectral components of the
- >> audio, and the effect will be proportional to both the amplitude and
- >> frequency of the component.
-
- >Jim, what is "low index phase modulation"?
-
- Modulation index is the peak phase deviation in radians in frequency or
- phase modulation. It's usually designated beta in books and papers.
-
- In this case the peak phase shift is considerably less than 2 PI radians
- so the index is small enough to work with first order approximations.
-
- If you have a cosine phase modulated by another sinusoid, then for low index
- there will be a pair of 90 degrees shifted sidebands beta/2 as large
- as the carrier. This is easy to see by looking at phasor diagrams;
- you have a little modulation phasor sinusoidally varying at right angles
- to the carrier. Another way is to look at the carrier where it slews thru
- it's zero crossings. The slope is 2*pi*f per second so beta = 2*pi*f*tau.
-
- So the relative level of each sideband will be
-
- -20 log10 (beta/2) = -20 log10 (pi*f*tau) dB down
-
- Trying 10 kHz at zero level, 1 nsec peak (2 nsec peak to peak) sinewave
- jitter, we have sidebands -90 dB down. [NOT -84 dB as they show in a plot
- claimed to be for 2 nsec peak to peak. They are off by a factor of 2.
- They appear to be using one of the Blackman-Harris windows; probably
- a Kaiser-Bessel window with first null 5 bins away would be a better
- choice for such a low noise floor.]
-
- A 1 kHz full level signal will have sidebands -110 dB down, and so on.
-
- If they wished to make a meaningful assessment of the contamination due
- to jitter alone, they should have measured the jitter, spectrally analyzed
- it, and then used each spectral component (taking into account phase as
- well as magnitude) to modulate each sinewave in their test signals using
- the above relation for sidebands as a function of frequency and jitter.
-
- This is not a lot of processing for the simple signals they used, and
- would have shown that most of the processors would have *very* low audio
- band contamination from the jitter alone. In fact for simple sinewaves,
- merely notching out the sinewave out of the DAC (to prewhiten the signal)
- and spectrally analyzing the resulting residual would show how much
- contamination really exists due to all sources. (Or better, listening
- to the residual.) This kind of measurement of total noise and distortion
- is probably more meaningful, and at any rate should be done in conjunction
- with the analysis recommended above to show check if sensible results are
- being obtained.
-
- By the way, the spectral purity required by digital audio clocks is
- not at all stringent compared to what is required for phase locked
- loop frequency synthesizers. Folks designing these things have long
- been aware of such gremlins as "logic induced modulation" even if
- fancy names haven't been used. It's not a difficult measurement.
- In fact, it's easy to measure clock jitter to far greater precision
- than is necessary, even to asymptotically approach perfection.
-
- >So are the above two paragraphs arguing that jitter can never be audible or
- >is only possibly audible at high frequencies? I think the jury is still out
- >and view jitter as a hypothesis which may explain some of the effects critical
- >listeners have been reporting and I have heard.
-
- Actually, it would be easy to hook a phase lock loop chip up to
- a player's DAC clock line that would let you inject adjustable jitter,
- either random or even with some of the audio output mixed in.
-
- Just adjust it and listen, and see what kinds of thresholds there are.
- You'll probably find it shocking how much distortion can be really
- cranked in this way, when you only vary one experimental parameter.
- While I haven't done it with DAC clocks, I did such things with crossover
- distortion, slew limiting, and harmonic distortion.
-
- > One of the reasons I consider jitter a
- >likely suspect is the literature I've read seems to agree that to get its
- >effects below the 16 bit noise floor it has to be held to less than about
- >400 pS (from Harris' paper). Hawksford quotes a few tenths of a nS. Do the
- >papers you cite above give a conclusion as to the required accuracy?
-
- No conclusios, but one can always plug in some numbers and play what if games.
- The figures cited are valid in the sense that if jitter is that low
- (and random) that the 16 bit theoretical quantization noise floor won't
- be seriously compromised in the case of a pure full level 10 kHz sinewave and
- measured with a spectrum analyzer.
-
- > Do you
- >think this level of accuracy is typically maintained in $300 CD players?
-
- I don't know, but there is *no reason why not*. It is emphatically not
- an expensive thing to do properly, particularly in a one piece player
- where no extra interface chips and what have you are needed.
-
- - Jim
-