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- Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
- Path: sparky!uunet!mcsun!sunic!sejnet.sunet.se!eric
- From: eric@sejnet.sunet.se (Eric Thomas)
- Subject: Re: Moderated List????
- Message-ID: <1993Jan23.024937.1@sejnet.sunet.se>
- Lines: 70
- Sender: news@sunic.sunet.se
- Reply-To: ERIC@SEARN.SUNET.SE
- Organization: SUNET, Stockholm, Sweden
- References: <1jj897INNqik@gap.caltech.edu> <2140@bdrc.bdrc.bd.com> <1jonfuINNt5t@gap.caltech.edu>,<2202@bdrc.bdrc.bd.com> <1jpv1eINNhrv@gap.caltech.edu>
- Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 02:49:37 GMT
-
- Hey guys I gotta serious problem, hope you can help!!!! My car don't work no
- more. What should I do??? Yeah, I know, I know, call a repairman, but with the
- recession we ain't go no money for that. I tried asking my neighbor but he
- doesn't understand nuthin' about cars. So please help!!!!!
-
- PS: The car is a Volvo if that makes any difference. I thought they were
- good...
-
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
- I've always been amused at the social aspects of computers. People (by that I
- mean people at large - not people paid to understand computers) don't react to
- computer problems the way they would react to a normal everyday-life problem.
- If someone were to post the above message on rec.cars (or whatever it's called)
- and got flamed for not telling people WHAT it is that's wrong with his car and
- HOW the car broke, everyone would think "Gee, that guy deserved it, what did he
- expect really???" and it wouldn't occur to anyone to flame the flamer, unless
- he had been extremely abusive. But as soon as the problem is related to
- computers, the user is automatically considered innocent: it's not his fault,
- he's not a computer expert. So Joe (a nice guy, one of US) sends a message of
- the type:
-
- "Hi, I printed a file 30 minutes ago and the listing is not ready, why?"
-
- and wastes 15 minutes of the time of a user support person (a bad guy, one of
- THEM bastard computer people), at what point it turns out Joe had typed just
-
- $ PRINT
-
- at the prompt, and then happily switched off his terminal and gone to watch the
- listing come out, but it dared not to come out! Joe cannot be blamed one second
- for not having realized that the computer cannot guess which of his 50 files he
- wanted to print. I mean, with all these articles in the press about artifical
- intelligence, he was entitled to expect the computer to know. If on the other
- hand Joe had picked up the phone and waited for his correspondent to answer,
- without dialing, everyone would have laughed.
-
- Similarly, I often get requests for help from users at other sites where (for
- instance) the mail system is screwed up. When I tell them I cannot do anything
- about it and the problem is that their mail system is screwed up, and this
- should be reported to their local computer people, they say they can't do that
- because the local computer people are not nice, or don't seem to know what they
- are doing, or both. But they want to talk to Prof.Mueller in Switzerland (which
- as everyone know is another name for Sweden) very badly, so I have to give them
- instructions that work. If needed I must write a program to convert the broken
- mail generated by their machine into something that works, and if that is not
- possible they would like an account on my machine. And, of course, should I
- dare to answer that I'm not paid to solve their problems, I get the "You
- computer people wouldn't have a job without us users" litany (as if I was too
- stupid to get a job in another field if computers suddenly ceased to exist).
- Now, how often do you see these sorts of situations in real life? If the
- corporate loans offered by your employer aren't good enough, do you make a fool
- of yourself trying to convince IBM that they should let you take a corporate
- loan with them in spite of the fact that you're not one of them employees,
- because your own company provides shitty loans and you badly need the money?
-
- Well I could go on giving examples forever. I just note with amusement that, so
- far, the people who are against the concept of having a moderated mailing list
- (as opposed to those worried about technicalities or extra cost) are those who
- flame Carl and Ehud for not being nice. It looks like "moderated list" is
- somehow equated with "Carl's gang was right and the users are guilty", which of
- course is stupid. There is no point asking a question like the one on top of
- this message, and *that* is the point of having a mailing list. Having a
- mailing list would of course not mean the newsgroup would disappear: everyone
- would be free to decide which medium is a better investment of their time. With
- a bit of luck, all these unnice people might leave the newsgroups and the blind
- would happily lead the blind in a perfect, nice world without a single flame
- :-)
-
- Eric
-