NetNews Usenet Archive 1993 #3/NN_1993_3.iso/spool/bit/listserv/indiad/17

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India Interest Group Digest Sun, 24 Jan 93       Volume 2: Issue  83

Today's Topics:

      Accommodation request
      Agni Testing; Swami Vivekananda
      Comments on Mr. Shantanu Sardesai's posting
      Discussion on Indian Economy
      Dowry, harmonious living between Hindu/Muslim
      Football Is great
      Getting a multiple entry visa
      Hindu gangs
      India's missile program
      India - where are we heading ???
      Info on magazine for people planning to return to India
      Information on Latitude & Longitude
      Language Debate -- Part 4 of 6
      MAYA Theory
      On secularism & India - Part 1/4
      Recipes
      Shiv Sena
      Summer Travel
      There Are Plenty Of Konkanis Here In The U.S..
      Visa queries!
      Why is there lack of peace in the world today?
      Why We Suffered At Alien Hands?
      World Study-Tour Of Religions

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___________________________________________________________________________

Date: 22 Jan 1993 15:12:55 -0600 (CST)
From: Milind Kulkarni <[e-mail]>
Subject: Accommodation request

Dear netters
I am planning to attend a conference (Technologies of Freedom)
in Washington DC on February 25-28 which is to be held
at Sheraton Carlton Hotel.
I was wondering if any of you living in this area could
accommodate me for these four days or would suggest a less
expensive place to stay?
Please send your replies to
[e-mail]
Thanking you

Milind kulkarni

------------------------------

Date: 22 Jan 1993 11:24:19 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Agni Testing; Swami Vivekananda

    This netter is in complete agreement with Mr. Samit Banerjee's
excellent response to the question regarding Antartica. I am
heartened to know that there are rational people out there who look
seriously at our country's policies, and have taken the trouble to
actually gather information before jumping on to some shrill and
ridiculous political bandwagon. Not that Mr. Banerjee has. His
contribution was informative and rational and this is one netter who
sincerely hopes he takes a more active part on the net in the future.
    Second, Mr. Krishna Prasad's reproduction of Swami Vivekananda's
words made one stop and think. Thank you, Mr. Prasad. Swamiji's
words ring even more true today and have made me think: how much this
man loved us. We, who are so full of self-loathing. Maybe our self-
loathing should become a topic for discussion on the net, or maybe
it's too deeply psychoanalytical.
    Maybe a little self-examination will do us a world of good. But then,
when we can't find others to be acrimonious about, will we take
responsibility for our own mistakes? I've seen a long list of those
who have been held responsible: The government of India, Pseudo-
Secularists, Muslims, Hindus, Indian Males, the West, the BJP,
Aurangzeb, Tamilians, non-Tamilians, the whoever and the whatnot. The
significant fact is that all these are a shifting of responsibility.
We move things away from ourselves, because that's where the hatred
lies. Why do we hate ourselves so much? What great pain do we have to
wipe out? What Swamiji said a hundred years ago is all so true, in a
sense. We have lost our feeling. Of course, it is so wonderful
because of his love for us all (Hindus, Muslims, Christians --
Ramakrishna Paramhansa had become a Muslim, offered namaz and ate
meat, just as he had become a Christian also, and he was of course a
devout Hindu), and also because this was what he saw a hundred years
ago.

Ranjan Chakravarty

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 12:54:06 SAT
From: Mir Mujahid Ali <[e-mail]>
Subject: Comments on Mr. Shantanu Sardesai's posting

I wish to congragulate Mr.Shantanu Sardesai's for his posting recently
on india_d. Today if India is burning it is because of shortsighted
nationalists like Mr.Shantanu. I would like to inform Mr. Shantanu
that if Indian muslims preferred to stay back in India after independance
it was for the love for their motherland. Even today muslims in India
generally feel that partition was a mistake. It has always been the plan
of the political parties in India to corner muslim votebanks. To achieve
this time and again they have tried to woo muslim voters by offering
short term gains and making it sure that the muslim community is
always below poverty line. Mr. Sardesai could you please explain
how a muslim who is already preoccupied in earning his daily bread get
involved in a so called "communal riot"? Mr. Sardesai it is high
time that you and your communal cronies like the Shiv Sena, BJP and
the VHP woke up from your sleep before it is to late. You cannot
take a 20 % minority to a ride any longer in the name of Hindutva.
If the Hidutva brigade doesn't wake up soon they might have a civil
war on hand in India.

I would also like to advise the editor to stop publishing such blatant
communal postings as the ones by Mr.Sardesai.

Mir.

------------------------------

Date: 22 Jan 1993 17:09:01 -0500 (EST)
From: "D. Karanth" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Discussion on Indian Economy

Hi netters
    I think we should start discussing more about economy and other supporting
issues on the net. Now a days, one can see few  good signs in Indian
Economy. With the pressure from the IMF, World Bank, PVN Govt. was forced
to go with economic reforms. He could go ahead with the economic reform
with the tacit support from the right wing opposition party (BJP). It is
one good step in the right direction. Public is getting more and more
involved in investing in the stock market. The no. of new issues are
increasing every year. These are all healthy signs for the economy.
    However, private industries are running at a low productivity level. The
main reasons are lack of proper exit policy and notorious labour unions.
Private industries face tremendous pressure from the govt. and labour
unions. It is almost next to impossible to lay off the inefficient or
unnecessary work force.
    Most of the Public Sector Companies run like social welfare units. Some
of the employees think it is their entitlement to work/sleep in PSUs.
Large no. of PSUs are operating at a highest level of inefficiency. Why
should our tax money should be used on such PSUs??
    Foriegn investors recieve lesser hospitality in India than in countries
like China, Indonesia. Presently, China is one of the best country to invest.
They offer cheap, skilled and organised (no strikes) labour and minimum
level of bureaucracy. We offer a bunch of disorganised , expensive
(compared to China) and may be skilled labour. The no. of
licenses required are becoming lesser.
    I may be proud to say that we have one of the largest industrial base in
the world. But, I am not proud to say that we have one of the most
inefficient industrial base in the world.
The basic solution is that everybody should change thier way thinking.
    It is high time we should stop calling for bundhs, strikes. These were
good techniques developed by Gandhi. But I think we should not adopt
such techniques too much. We need to adjust to the present day conditions.
For everything, we can not refer to Gandhi or Nehru. We should try to
grow our economy as fast as possible. This will inturn heal other wounds.
We should be ready to suffer during the transient stage.
    I am a proud Indian in emotional sense. But, in real sense, I am not.

------------------------------

Date: 22 Jan 1993 13:41 -0800 (PST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Dowry, harmonious living between Hindu/Muslim

Hi
    The Havyaka Brhamins of Karnataka also do not expect, accept
dowry. In my life time in India about 30 years I have seen
100's of marriage in our community and not a case has risen
in which dowry "Varadakshine" word was mentioned.
    I worked in Assam and their also Dowry does not exist. The
marriage is very simple and nice. That is the one place in
India I found Muslims did not know Urdu, talked the local
language (Assamese) and have totally adopted the local
culture. The Assameese do not believe in Idol worship (Sensible people)
and they all gather together under a pupil tree and chant (Bhajans)
Muslims too join these sort of Bihu chants.
    Lastly there was this Guy (I do not want to give out his name
or religon) who fought with his wife constantly for the promised
dowry. They had baby a too, but their fight continued till one day
he burnt his wife. All the nighbourhood knew about this. The inlaws
made a deal!! He agreed to marry his dead wife's sister if they
did not prosecute him! What a deal!! And life rolled on ....

anand

------------------------------

Date: 22 Jan 1993 23:21:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Kedarnath Tupil <[e-mail]>
Subject: Football Is great

Football is great. I played it once and let me tell you its much better
watching other people play. As for NBA action I think the Suns will take
it all.

My two cents worth.
Kedarnath Tupil

------------------------------

Date: 22 Jan 1993 23:45:45 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Getting a multiple entry visa

Hi,
   I came to the U.S. for the fall of '92. I was given a visa which permitted
multiple entry for a single year. However, I wish to get the multiple entry
renewed and I do not wish to go back home for this purpose. I heard that going
to Canada would be a lot easier. Does any of you have any information on this?
I would be thankful if any of you could help me with this.

Vijeev

------------------------------

Date: 22 Jan 1993 11:19:56 -0600 (CST)
From: cgtha <@cunyvm.cuny.edu:[e-mail]>
Subject: Hindu gangs

Somebody on the net mentioned that the Shiv Sena cannot be called a gang-
I ask why not?? why not should a bunch of people led by an individual as
ruthless, as anti-muslims as the "TIGER" of Bombay Bal Thakery be clubbed
with the likes of LTTE, me thinks it is entirely justified.

To know the henious capabilites of this so called political group one has
to live in the city the home of Shiv Sena.The reason for winning only half the
number of seats at the muncipal corporation is the laziness of the middle-upper
class. The current turmoil and chaos in the city can and is attributed to this
"GANG". To prove this one has only to speak to the people who went through
this, not base the opinion on heresay sitting miles away.!!!!

TASNEEM

------------------------------

Date: 22 Jan 1993 12:00:31 -0500 (EST)
From: Shrisha Rao <[e-mail]>
Subject: India's missile program

Samit Banerjee<[e-mail]> writes:
>The Balasore Range is fully functional and as far as I know, all Agni
>launches last year (including the one scheduled for March this year) will
>take place from that site.

What do you mean by "all Agni launches last year, including the one
scheduled for March this year ?"

Correction - the Balasore range was SUPPOSED to come up by 1994 or
thereabouts, had work started in 1989 as planned. It is highly unlikely
that it is fully functional, given that work had not started 'til 1991.
The Chandipur range (from where the May 1989 launch took place) will
probably be used in the near future.

> Environmental concerns aside, Agni is a Intermediate Range Ballistic
>missile (IRBM) and it's current range does not exceed 3500 miles. To even
>think that such a system can deliver a payload to the Antarctic continent
>is to be blissfully unaware of the rules of physics and dynamics.

The Agni missile tested in 1989 and 1992 obviously cannot deliver a
payload to Antarctica - its range is only 2500 km. As is well known,
that system consisted of a Prithvi missile mounted on an SLV-3 first
stage motor. The later missile (which has a range of ~ 12000 km) has a
liquid-fuel first stage motor believed to be derived from the PSLV, and
two other stages, and is an ICBM by any standards. This is the one
expected to be tested in March.

> In my opinion, India's missile program is largely regional and for the
>most part confined to the Asian continent.  Under the circumstances, an ICBM
>may not be required or developed by India, since the Agni's potential
>targets fall within it's current range.

I somehow wish I could agree, but the current and likely future course
of events may well cause  things to turn out differently.

------------------------------

Date: 22 Jan 1993 17:23:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: JALMEIP7@spanky
Subject: India - where are we heading ???

    Watching last Sunday's NFC championship game completely ruined my
weekend.  Being a rabid 49er fan, I'm still searching for a scapegoat:
Steve Young (he threw for 312 yards), Ricky Watters (no, the "Watter"
does not flow into Pasadena, but will into the Pro-Bowl), Grant (yes,
that's right; he fumbled that critical punt).  Now that the football
season is over (Yeah, yeah, I know the big dance is on Jan 31.  But,
frankly my dear, I don't care a damn if Big D wins it all, or the
Bills get lucky the third time), I found some additional time at my
disposal.  Guess what, I used it to scan the pages of the India-D.
    I was surprised that except for a few notes of regret, there were
hardly any outpourings on the carnage that transpired in Bombay.  As
usual more mundane issues such as the superiority of one state over
the other or the pros and cons of having a uniform language across
the sub-continent appear to guide these pedantic discussions.  I
would like to presume that the majority of netters are still in a
comatose state after learning about these truly traumatic events,
and have yet to respond.  I am reluctant to categorize the mass
slaughtering that occurred in Bombay as communal because I cannot
accept that the average person in Bombay posseses a sword and would
not have any qualms about using it to strike another dead.  These
utterly reprehensible acts could only be the machinations of thugs
and anti-socials, irrespective of religious affiliation.  It's okay
to eulogize India in any way or form we can and it maybe appropriate
to sing paeans about her greatness.  But, we have to first develop
love for our fellow beings and respect for their opinions, although
these may not be necessarily compatible with ours.  These are some
basic (as in fundamental, not as in simple) values that we have to
inculcate in our lives before developing more grandiose and esoteric
plans for the future of our country.  We are at a crossroad and
better take a good look at the direction we are headed, lest we take
the wrong turn.  Let's build bridges in our relationships with our
fellowmen, and if we can't at least let us not burn those that exist.
James Almeida
(Yes, still a biiiiiiig 49er fan)

------------------------------

Date: 23 Jan 1993 23:27:09 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Info on magazine for people planning to return to India

Dear Networkers,
     I am looking for magazine published for Indians who are planning to
return to India for employment purpose. I remember I have seen advertisement
of such magazine in India Today ( Jan 92 issue ).
     If anybody has information of such magazine, please email me the address
of the publication and approximate subscription fee of it.
     Thank you.
Mahendra

------------------------------

Date: 22 Jan 1993 15:45:03 -0800 (PST)
From: raj@spooky (Rajendra H B)
Subject: Information on Latitude & Longitude

Dear Netters,
I require urgently Latitude & Longitude of certain important places in India,
to cast horoscopes. If anyone knows any ftp sites from where I can get this
info it will be immensely helpful. I also would like to know any horoscope
casting programs available on certain ftp sites.

Thanks,
RAJENDRA

------------------------------

Date: 22 Jan 1993 14:47 -0600 (CST)
From: Deivan Durai <[e-mail]>
Subject: Language Debate -- Part 4 of 6

8.  Learning a language requires substantial investment.  There is no denying
    that fact.  If non-Hindi speakers were required to learn Hindi with no
    requirement on Hindi speakers to learn another language, then we would have
    forced a segment of the population to spend more time and money.  This is
    not equitable.  Secondly, it is the belief of Tamils that because it is
    their mother tongue, Hindi-speakers would continue to have an upper hand,
    nevertheless, when competing in Hindi.

    This is the basis for the statement by some Tamils that we are Indians and
    let us all have the same advantages and the same disadvantages.  In
    particular, let us all have the same disadvantage of having to learn
    and to compete in English.  Why should a Uttar Pradeshi be advantaged just
    because his/her mother tongue is Hindi whereas a non-Hindi speaker has
    disadvantages despite his/her additional investments to learn Hindi?

9.  Some North-Indians are bedeviled to find that a Telugu-speaker takes to
    learning Hindi more easily than a Tamil-speaker.  There may be several
    reasons for it but I know of two.  1) People in states such as Andhra
    Pradesh have had more exposure to Hindi partially due to proximity and
    partially due to rulers such as the Nizam of Hyderabad, Tipu Sultan in
    Karnataka, etc.  2) Telugu [and Kannada] has more input from Sanskrit
    and consequently a Telugu-speaker understands more Hindi words than
    a Tamil-speaker.

10. Tamils think that Hindi interest groups continue to PUSH their language.
    Until the 1960's Hindi agitation, Hindi was displayed prominently in
    government offices in Tamil Nadu.  As per newspaper reports during the
    60s, railway stations courted name boards with place names in Hindi at the
    TOP and Tamil at the bottom.  [While I have read this as a young boy, I
    can't prove or verify this fact.  To the extent I have seen much after the
    Hindi-agitation, if there was any Hindi name on a name-board, it was at the
    bottom or in the middle.]  Placement of names in Hindi at the top appeared
    unacceptable to most Tamils and it is common knowledge that railway
    stations bore the brunt of assaults during 1960 Hindi-agitation.

------------------------------

Date: 22 Jan 1993 22:02:24 -0600
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MAYA Theory

Hi !

Do we really exist in the present physically ? It does not seem that way if we
follow the scientific thread. I mean, the science says that light travels at
finite speed and every object reflects some amount of light to be visible
(now, light-speed is the fastest known). So, if I see some object, I really
see its past not present, because, finite time is required for the light to
travel from that object to my eyes ( time may be in nano seconds but it is
finite). So, for me nothing exists in the present. Not even my body because
I can see it. What is "present" then ? Just an illusion ! Seems like the
MAYA Theory is correct after all . Surprisingly, the science and religion can
often lead to similar paradoxes.

Where is the flaw in the scientific logic ? If there is something called
"present" then there must be a flaw. Please let me know If you find one.

--- Dinesh Barwey

------------------------------

Date: 22 Jan 1993 11:30:51 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail] (Seetamraju Uday Bhaskar Sarma)
Subject: On secularism & India - Part 1/4

This post of mine represents a collection of thoughts that I feel are linked,
very much. Lets first consider pakistan.
<FACT> It was formed for muslims.  Two generations ago, muslims in the
        subcontinent overwhelmingly voted for the creation of pakistan.
It is now clear, that was more of a political messsage than a strong desire
to realise the import of that vote.  But the vote was one of the most
important events in the history of the sub-continent.  It clearly meant
that the muslims were dead against `dissolving' into the multitude.
This fear was widespread, in spite of the fact that muslims in the subcontinent
accounted for about a quarter of the whole population before partition.
A quarter is a heck of a lot to feel insecure.  But many did.  But the import
for the hindus was much more than insecurity.  It was a plain statement of
the fact that the people who `wanted away' were kicking aside many millenia
of cultural heritage, to START FROM THE SCRATCH elsewhere. The people who moved
didnt want anything to do with any part of the ethos and life in the `remainder'
<FACT> Though a few muslims left for pakistan, a much larger percentage
        stayed back.  In spite of all rhetoric and political intrigues
played out by everyone, when it came to making the actual step of moving
to pakistan, many muslims faltered.  My opinion is that they didnt even
falter. They just stayed put. In spite all the analysis that one saw(still see),
it is now clear, that the muslims who stayed, stayed, for the simple reason
because the place where they were, was their home.
   If a muslim youth is angered when I question his `patriotism', he simply
demonstrates the fact that he is just another of the bloody westernized fooling
brown sahibs.  A person to whom, alien notions of Nationalism, Patriotism,
National Identity, National character, Rule of formal law etc..., are
the only things humans are living for, and for which, humans should live
for, and for which, humans who are not living for, should live for.
   You will find a whole range of such emotions, but never will U see a
response from the urbanized muslim, which means to say``To hell with U, this is
my home, so was it my father's, and so was it my ancestor's"
   No, he will blabber about secularism and good of mankind, global peace,
uniformity of thought, the need to make jeans mandatory for all, the
need for a common language, the need for a common religion, blah blah blah...
Show me such a response from the villages and smaller mussofils...

------------------------------

Date: 22 Jan 1993 11:58:19 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Recipes

Hi netters
    I thought of starting a discussion on recipes. It appears that
this topic has not been discussed in the net yet. I suggest this based
on my observation that most of the netters are grad students. It would be
of significant importance to those who want to prepare new stuff. It is
also a good time for expert cooks to lay their hands into teaching others.
    Any suggestions?
Bye
Basker Mathrubootham.

------------------------------

Date: 22 Jan 1993 09:56:16 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail] (Rajesh Raman)
Subject: Shiv Sena

> Date: 19 Jan 1993 21:38 -0500 (CDT)
> From: [e-mail]
> Subject: Hindu Gangs
> Dear Editor,
>         In his posting, [e-mail] states that Hinhu
> gangs like Shiv Sena has killed moslems. I would like to say two things
> regarding this.
>         Firstly, there is no reason to beleive that Shiv Sena has done this
> and secondly it is an organization which has won just less than half seats
> in Bombay municipal coorpoaration elections and therefore has support of
> large number of people. Therefore, you can't call it a gang and place in
> the category of LTTE etc.

   Sitting here we cannot know whether the Shiv Sena did it or not. We have
to rely on news reports. They do seem to indicate that the Shive Sena did it.
   It is not the categorisation that is important, Nitin. Whether they are
grouped together with the LTTE or the IRA is not important. The KLF has the
support of a considerable no. of people. The LTTE has the support of a large
no. of people. If you can label them bad, then why can't you label the Shiv
Sena bad?
   If you didn't say exactly what was on your mind, please do so, because
this sure seems confusing.
   Any organisation that kills people purely because of their religion whether
it has won all the votes in the country or not cannot be considered good for
the health of the people of the world.

Rajesh Raman

------------------------------

Date: 22 Jan 1993 11:34:30 -0500 (EST)
From: Subramania B Natarajan <[e-mail]>
Subject: Summer Travel

Hi,
     I am planning to go to India this summer. I am sure that
many of you are also planning the same. So in order to help us
all get the best offers from the various Airlines I request all
members to post information regarding the best offer they were
able to get when they went home last summer (or) the best offer
they are getting for this summer. The information should contain
the travel agency name, address (ph. no), airline, the final destination
and the COST OF A ROUND-TRIP (or) ONE-WAY ticket.
     I heard that GULF-AA combination and SWISSAIR give the best
rates (for a round-trip), but I am not sure of this. I request the
netters to enlighten us regarding this. I also heard that travelling
in the last week of May instead of first week of June or later saves
atleast $100. Any info. will be helpful.

Cheers,
Bharathi.

P.S : I would also like to know the round-trip fare (in dollars)
      in Indian airlines b/w Bombay-Madras and Delhi-Madras. I
      am particularly interested in the difference in the cost.
      My email address is [e-mail]
      Any response will be appreciated.

------------------------------

Date: 22 Jan 1993 21:30:25 -0800 (PST)
From: "Vivek R. Prabhu" <[e-mail]>
Subject: There Are Plenty Of Konkanis Here In The U.S..

   This is in response to the readers, about the Konkani thread going
on at present on India-D.
   I am a Konkani speaking Gowda Saraswat Brahmin, hailing from South
Kanara District in Karnataka.  I have been  residing mostly in the
cities of Madras, and Bombay for an entire lifetime and I am quite
happy about reading about this attempt to get together.
   Before going further let me however clarify a few things. Konkanis
are those people that hail from the Konkan coast,  which stretches
from the south of Bombay, i.e. the coast of Ratnagiri Dist. of the
state of Maharashtra, right to the coast of Trichur in Kerala. The
language spoken along this region is Konkani, from Ratnagiri which
is in Maharashtra, till Nileshwar which is in Kerala. The dialects
however do vary, and that is due to local influence of the various
indigenous communities present.
   It is commonly taken for granted that GSBs and Konkanis're one and
the same thing. Well they're often not. The GSBs or Gowda Saraswat
Brahmins, hailed originally from Kashmir and in the process of the
migration towards South India, were residents of Prayag, along the
banks of the Saraswati River. After the invasion of the Mongols, &
later on followed by the latter mostly Islamic invasions this very
industrious community, started migrating further towards the other
safer parts of India. Some of the community people, particularly a
group of 5 families migrated towards the Bengal region and they're
even present now, in large numbers.  The Chakravartis of Bengal're
one of them. Some of the other families migrated towards Rajasthan
and the Sharmas from Rajasthan are GSBs. Some migrated towards the
coasts of present day Maharashtra, Goa, Karnataka,  and Kerala. It
is true that the maximum numbers of GSBs are now in these parts of
India. This is the reason, why today, GSBs have almost become very
much synonymous with Konkanis.
   As for Konkanis (GSBs), in America there are plenty of them. I, my
wife, and another student here are three and there is a very large
Konkani Association Of California (KAOCA) here in the Bay Area and
is probably the largest representation of Konkanis in the U.S. The
members are about 100 families in number.

Regards,
Vivek.

------------------------------

Date: 22 Jan 1993 13:15:35 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Piyush Lumba)
Subject: Visa queries!

Hi netters!

I know this question has probably been asked several times before but would
appreciate if someone could help me out on this one.

I am doing my M.S. in Comp. Engg at Boston Univ. -- I came here on a J-1
visa with the 2-year home residency requirement. I was told by some people
that if I took back an I-20 with me the next time I visited India, I could
get my visa status converted to an F-1. Now my questions are:

1. Is the above method at all feasible?
2. In case it is, does the home residency requirement still stay?
3. If not, is there any way of getting a J-1 converted to an F-1?

Thanx,
Piyush Lumba

------------------------------

Date: 22 Jan 1993 13:48:19 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail] (Mukesh Prasad)
Subject: Why is there lack of peace in the world today?

   Indians ask, why is there lack of peace in the world today?

   The answer would have been obvious to Hindu theologians, if they had not
made a vital mistake in their theology.  Somewhere along the line, they made
the mistaken assumption that all the incarnations have occurred and will occur
in the land called India.

   Thus when Bluethroat awoke once again about 1500 years ago (this time, it
was either in Middle East or Africa) and sent out his prophet to sing his
songs, the Hindus were completely unable to recognize him.  Not that this
was of terrible importance except perhaps to the Hindus. They, of course,
were also completely unable to resist his influence, as was to be expected.
Temples were broken, libraries were burned and knowledge was lost for ever
-- the dances of Bluethroat always bring eternal change.

   There is a vague recognition in India, however.  Notice that the current
violence in India is led by "Shiv Sena", at least on one side, as both sides
of the destructive principle do their bidding.  Instead of temples, now
mosques are being broken, leading to temples being broken yet again, leading
to yet more homage to good old Bluethroat.

------------------------------

Date: 22 Jan 1993 10:55:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Venkat Rama Krishnan <[e-mail]>
Subject: Why We Suffered At Alien Hands?

   We Indians suffered terrible agony and exploitation at the hands of
the alien plunderers and rulers for nearly 1000 years. What could be the
possible causes for our having had to suffer so much?

   (1) Neglect of material needs:
       Since around the middle of 1st millennium B.C., increasingly greater
emphasis was given to the other-worldly matters and striving for material
betterment was gradually considered to be something derogatory. We were so
involved in discussing abstruse philosophy that we did not notice the
Ghaznis marching into our precious Motherland.

   (2) Our advanced civilization:
       Human being can never be as ferocious as a tiger or a lion. The
more civilized a race is, the less brutal strength that the race has. We
Indians were so civilized that by 1000 A.D., we had almost no power
to resist the beastly march of the barbarian invaders. Our achieving
independence only through civilized non-violent means also adds strength
to this argument.

   (3) Ignoring the world outside India:
       The mighty Himalayas was highly favorable for us to close our
eyes to the outside world. We erected a rigid barrier around ourselves
and lost touch with what was happening in the world outside India. Our
marvellous and proud heritage made us forget for a moment the advantage
of interacting with and learning from the outside world.

   -- An Indian Who Thinks
      Venkat Rama Krishnan

------------------------------

Date: 22 Jan 1993 16:27:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: World Study-Tour Of Religions

It is now almost hundred years since the World Parliament of Religions was
held in Chicago. Let us make a Round the World Study-Tour of the major SITES/
MONUMENTS/(BY)PRODUCTS of religions, to commemmorate the occasion.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Start: Los Angeles. Study the impact of recent events in many areas. By Air,
arrive in Belfast, Northern Ireland: See the romance of Catholics and
Protestants.--- By Air and U.N.Armoured P.Carrier---Sarajevo, former
Yugoslavia/Bosnia. See the elderly and Day Care Centres.---Arrive in
Jerusalem, in the area where Christianity,Islam and Judaism were born. Visit
West Bank and Gaza Strip into Lebanon and meet the expelled Palestinians.
You may get a chance to be on CNN.---By camel or Mercedes to Saudi Arabia and
Kuwait. See the charity of the Sheikhs towards their fellow Muslim brothers,
Palestinians, if you find one there.---By U.S.F-16, through the no-fly zone
into Mesopotamia (Iraq). Be a 'guest' of Saddam Hussein.---By a Scud missile
into Persia (Iran);Visit the place where 'FATWA'S are issued to all the
INFIDELS around the world and a chance to visit the Ayatollah's tomb.---Into
Afghanistan; best place to buy U.S. and Soviet arms. Keep the receipts. You
will be reimbursed by the Pakistani Govt--- By donkey---into Islamabad,
Pakistan. You will attend a lecture on human rights and respect for
minorities by the P.M. and a clip of the CNN World Report, shown earlier,
about the 'rebuilding' of the temples, destroyed recently. Don't forget to
get the money from the Govt. Keep the arms, too, to be smuggled into the
Indian part of Kashmir.---By Pakistani Army Jeep into Indian Kashmir and
Punjab. Meet the Police Chiefs and hear about the 'punishment' given to the
Police, for human rights violations. By Uzbek Air (Indian Airlines Pilots, on
Strike) to Bombay. Meet the Hindu Shiva Sena Chief and introduce yourself by
undressing your pants. Visit the slum areas, have some Molotov Cocktails.
---By Uzbek Air, which always lands on meadows---to Ayodhya. See the rubble
of the Mosque built by the 'Great and Noble' Mogul Emperor, Babur on
'EXACTLY, EXACTLY the same SPOT' where Hindu God-King Rama was born and the
evidence for that. Good luck,here, if you are a journalist.---On TOP OF train
to Bangladesh and see the destruction of more temples--- into Burma --- see
the respect shown to Muslims by the Budhists. ---Into China. Visit Tibet and
see the 'restoration' of Budhist Heritage by the Chinese Army.By boat to the
Hindu Tamil Tigers territory in Sri Lanka where you can sell more arms. See
the hospitality of  them towards muslims and budhists. ---By Sri Lankan Army
Jeep to Colombo and on the way see the exchange of boquets between Sri Lankan
Budhists and Hindu Tamil Tigers.---By air-- to New York. If you need any help
during or after the trip Call 1-800-ATHEIST.******************KRISHNA PRASAD.

------------------------------

End of India Interest Group Digest
**********************************