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- Xref: sparky alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:13821 talk.abortion:57901
- Path: sparky!uunet!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news
- From: brinkley@cs.utexas.edu (Paul Brinkley)
- Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,talk.abortion
- Subject: Re: control
- Date: 25 Jan 1993 16:48:56 -0600
- Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
- Lines: 81
- Message-ID: <lm8rioINNgt7@ar-rimal.cs.utexas.edu>
- References: <1jh7udINNh25@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com> <lm1b3eINNebn@ar-rimal.cs.utexas.edu> <1k144kINNc37@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com>
- NNTP-Posting-Host: ar-rimal.cs.utexas.edu
-
-
- The following are exchanges between me and Adrienne Regard.
-
- >>>>>If your nose is inside the womans body, she should be free to punch it
- >>>>>as much as she wants.
- >...Okay, I'll play along with that. But what if I had no choice whether my
- >...nose was there or not?
- >
- >>>Okay, let's all play along with that.
- >>>What *if* you had no choice, but your nose was in fact inside the woman's
- >>>body.
- >>>Do you *seriously* propose she should just have to put up with your nose?
- >
- >>Good point. Normally I wouldn't. And the analogy breaks down around here,
- >>since in this case it's not just a nose, but an entire life (I note that
- >>"life" is arguable) inside. And assuming it is a human life, which by
- >>sheer misfortune found itself inside a womb, it would be most unfair for
- > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
- >>him or her to have to die in deference to another human life's right to
- >>privacy.
- >
- >Why?
- >
- >Why would that be 'most unfair'? Why would it not be MORE unfair to require
- >a living, breathing, sentient human woman decide whether or not to harbor
- >these people within her body if *she* chose to do so, or not? Why does she
- >suddenly disappear from this picture when it is *her* body that is having
- >to do the work?
-
- You know, I just played this game with a friend of mine this morning. He's
- pro-life, and so I offered him a sample of the pro-choice arguments I found
- here. His views are perhaps a tad extreme; he doesn't believe the fetus is
- even a part of the mother, on the grounds that it's something the mother's
- body would reject if not for the placental wall surrounding it. Therefore,
- the mother's rights don't extend into the womb, period.
-
- I replied that she _still_ has to carry some umpty-ump pounds of water
- around for nine months, and take part in a process with a considerably
- high chance of developing medical complications, and so part of her body
- or not, she's definitely involved. He replied that "it's possible to have
- it taken out". I replied that the cost would be prohibitive. He said it
- didn't matter in this case, and I realized once again how hard it is to
- change someone's mind on an issue like this.
-
- In conclusion, yes, her body is having to do the work. And I will most
- certainly agree that her rights will be infringed were the government to
- decide in favor of the unborn child. I did not mean to imply otherwise,
- and I apologize if my post appeared to treat women as "fetal containers".
-
- >>Were it up to me, I
- >>would look for another alternative.
- >
- >Can you tell us what other alternatives occur to you?
-
- I admit, not a whole lot. Embryo transplants. "Metal mommas". Better
- contraceptives. I fear our medical expert, Mark Cochran (who _still_
- won't tell me what T.S.A.K.C. stands for), could knock most of my ideas
- down as impractical, since he could argue circles around me when it
- comes to the medical profession.
-
- But then, I'm just one person, and a CS major at that. There _are_
- other people working on "another alternative", people who are more
- qualified than I. To be truthful, I subscribed to this newsgroup mainly
- to sharpen my debating skills, but maybe I ought to look in this a bit
- more. I encourage you all to do the same.
-
- It seems the majority of the population sees this is a problem with only
- two solutions: either the fetus gets its life, or the mother gets her
- privacy. But everything I've ever experienced - every book I've read,
- every show I've watched, every lesson I've ever learned from my parents -
- forces me to come to the conclusion that if you work hard enough on it,
- you can have your cake, eat it, and lose weight in the process. :)
-
- In other words, I refuse to think of this as "Mother vs. Fetus in the
- Battle of the Century", one must win, the other must lose. I'd rather
- see both win.
-
- Paul Brinkley
- brinkley@cs.utexas.edu
- Pro-Thought Advocate
-
-