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- Newsgroups: talk.abortion
- Path: sparky!uunet!wri!joplin.wri.com!markp
- From: markp@joplin.wri.com (Mark Pundurs)
- Subject: Re: the z/e/f's right to life (was: Who are you guys?)
- Message-ID: <markp.726882092@joplin.wri.com>
- Sender: news@wri.com
- Nntp-Posting-Host: joplin.wri.com
- Organization: Wolfram Research, Inc.
- References: <markp.726853299@joplin.wri.com> <29611@oasys.dt.navy.mil> <markp.726862548@joplin.wri.com> <1993Jan12.193845.19994@ncar.ucar.edu>
- Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 23:41:32 GMT
- Lines: 55
-
- In <1993Jan12.193845.19994@ncar.ucar.edu> kauff@neit.cgd.ucar.edu (Brian Kauffman) writes:
-
- >> = markp@joplin.wri.com (Mark Pundurs) writes:
- >>> = bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ron Bense) writes:
- >>>> = In talk.abortion, markp@joplin.wri.com (Mark Pundurs) writes:
- >------------------------------------------------------------------------
- >>>>You're half-right; at this point, it's vital (no pun intended) to
- >>>>ask whether the z/e/f has the right to life. New thread, anyone?
-
- >>>Have already started that in this thread. I have stated that no such
- >>>right exists. Why don't you prove there is in one short post?
-
- >>As to the z/e/f's right to life:
- >>
- >>A first stab at defining what makes us human is "reasoning, free-willed
- >>individuality." (From this follows our rights: right to life, right
- >>to free speech, etc.) But we also regard newborn infants as human (I
- >>hope!); and they sure aren't reasoning. We can reconcile this fact
- >>with the above definition only by expanding that definition of
- >>humanity (and the possession of human rights) to include the potential
- >>for reasoning, free-willed individuality. Newborns have this potential --
- >>and so do z/e/f's.
-
- >Fetus' maybe, zygotes no.
-
- >a) "human" is frequently used in two very different ways, *roughly*:
- > human[1] : made of human tissue
- > human-life[1] : made of human tissue & alive
- > human[2] : a "person"
- > human-life[2] : a "person"
- > So let's be clear we're discussing "personhood"
-
- >b) while "reasoning, free-willed individuality" probably won't be
- > an acceptable defn. of "person" to all, it does *suggest* the
- > essence of the concept. While we probably will never agree on a
- > completely unambiguous defn. of "person", it seems that
- > most reasonable people would agree that the current colloquial usage
- > of the term "person" and any meaningful concept of "personhood" requires
- > at *least* the possibility of something similar to "individuality" and
- > "reasoning" (or some type of thought process).
- >
- > Please: those who disagree please make a clear, concise statement
- > at this point. There's no point in continuing if you disagree here.
- >
- >c) assuming you agree with (a) & (b) above, a zygote cannot be a "person",
- > (in any normal/reasonable usage of the term) because clearly it is
- > physically impossible for a zygote to have anything similar to reasoning
- > (physically, it has no brain). Hence zygotes cannot be referred to
- > as "persons" in any meaningful way.
-
- Are there any newborns who reason? If not, why are they persons?
-
- >-Brian
-
- Mark Pundurs
-