home *** CD-ROM | disk | FTP | other *** search
- Xref: sparky talk.abortion:55275 talk.religion.misc:25878 alt.atheism:25703
- Newsgroups: talk.abortion,talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism
- Path: sparky!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!news.cs.indiana.edu!umn.edu!mmm.serc.3m.com!pwcs!chrisl
- From: chrisl@stpaul.gov (Chris A Lyman)
- Subject: Re: Christian Pro-Choicers (was Re: An Abortion Argument that has nothing to do with OT and NT)
- Message-ID: <1993Jan11.153845.2572@pwcs.stpaul.gov>
- Sender: news@pwcs.stpaul.gov (USENET news administration)
- Nntp-Posting-Host: krang
- Organization: City of Saint Paul Public Works
- References: <C0G8oI.6E1@athena.cs.uga.edu> <1993Jan7.204007.15559@pwcs.stpaul.gov> <C0K0Hy.ME4@athena.cs.uga.edu>
- Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 15:38:45 GMT
- Lines: 63
-
- hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr) writes:
- > chrisl@stpaul.gov (Chris A Lyman) writes:
-
- >> Really? _Why_ would they do that? [send pictures of aborted fetuses
- >> to members of a pro-choice church] Is it perhaps because their arguments
- >> are so bankrupt they have resort to shock tactics?
-
- > If there is nothing wrong with abortion, why is that a shock tactic?
-
- Really, Paul, it is a shock tactic because that is the expected outcome. It
- has nothing to do with the rightness or wrongness of abortion; imo, it is an
- admission from the sender that he/she cannot make a rational argument against
- abortion. Do you honestly believe that if you were to send me a Christmas
- card accompanied by a picture of a fetus (aborted or not, they're not very
- attractive) that I would be convinced that, yes, z/e/fs are really persons
- and that abortion is murder?
-
- [--deletions--]
-
- > Is showing the footage of dead Jews from the concetration camps
- > not a valid debating technique. Maybe those who think the holocoast
- > was wrong would show these films because they lack strong arguments?
-
- You're kidding, right? Let's get one thing straight, Paul. The Holocaust
- doesn't work very well as an analogy to the abortion issue. I would suggest
- backpedalling at flank speed to avoid being flamed to a crisp. The Holocaust,
- the systematic and deliberately cruel extermination of Jews, Slavs, gypsies,
- assorted other "undesirable" ethnic minorities and disabled people by a
- totalitarian government, is not an analogy to anything. All my Jewish
- friends lost relatives to the Holocaust. Do not trivialize the horror
- of that event by trying to make it an 'analogy' to anything else.
-
- >> Is defacing church property a valid debating technique?
-
- > I didnt say it was right to deface church property. I have problems with
- > the idea of bombing abortion clinics, too. Or even blockading clinics. I
- > think I would have to hear from God to practice civil disobedience except
- > in regard to practicing the Christian faith. But I can't condemn others
- > who do. They may be obeying God.
-
- Not too long ago, there was an attempted firebombing of a women's clinic
- in my area. The perpetrator(s) drilled a hole in the roof, poured ten
- gallons of gasoline into the clinic, lit a candle and high-tailed it out
- of there. The candle went out, fortunately. If it had ignited the gasoline,
- the force of the explosion would have been equivalent to seven sticks of
- dynamite. There is a nursing home adjoining the clinic, so many, many
- innocent people would have died. As it was, the nursing home had to be
- evacuated because of the gasoline fumes. Do you really think that God is
- so desperate for results that He would sanction the killing of innocent
- people to save a few fetuses?
-
- [--deletions--]
-
- >> What forms of killing are murder?
-
- > It is murder for us to kill the innocent.
-
- Those firebombers would definitely have been murderers then. I'm curious,
- Paul, where does God tell us that two wrongs make a right?
-
- --
- Chris Lyman / email: chrisl@pwcs.stpaul.gov / my thoughts, my words
- "Dignity. Always dignity." -- Gene Kelly in "Singin' in the Rain"
-