home *** CD-ROM | disk | FTP | other *** search
- Newsgroups: talk.abortion
- Path: sparky!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!cookc
- From: cookc@aix.rpi.edu (rocker)
- Subject: Re: Blackmun calls the Roe v. Wade dividing line ""arbitrary""
- Message-ID: <r592pmf@rpi.edu>
- Nntp-Posting-Host: aix.rpi.edu
- References: <1992Dec24.014033.13747@ncsu.edu> <34624@rnd.GBA.NYU.EDU> <C0301K.5nL@news.cso.uiuc.edu> <30DEC92.17224243@vax.clarku.edu> <C059FK.G08@news.cso.uiuc.edu> <+j82dp#@rpi.edu> <C0FBKp.BzK@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
- Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 18:01:23 GMT
- Lines: 129
-
- vengeanc@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu () writes:
-
- >cookc@aix.rpi.edu (rocker) writes:
-
- >>vengeanc@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu () writes:
-
- >>>Pregnancy is not a punishment. Pregnancy is a responsibility one must
- >>>accept for one's actions. Men who consent to sex should be legally
- >>>responsible to support the child emotionally and financially.
-
- >>I'd be absolutely fascinated to hear how you propose to legislate that
- >>men emotionally support their biological children. Or is abortion the
- >>only fit subject for legislation, and should we just trust that men
- >>will "do the right thing"?
-
- >Did I claim we could legislate that?
-
- Ah, silly me, I must have been thrown off by the word "legally" in the
- original sentence. So you are now saying that no, men should not be
- legally responsible to support their children emotionally? Funny how
- the men's responsibilities in this situation just keep getting fewer
- and fewer, while women's keep increasing.
-
- >Oh, by the way, it's you liberals
-
- Me liberals? Do share with us the in-depth analysis of my views which
- has eventually led you to come to the conclusion that my political
- leanings can safely be described as "liberal", I'm sure it would be
- fascinating. After all, I can hardly believe that you'd be silly
- enough to characterize a person's entire political philosophy based
- on how you think they feel about a given issue.
-
- In fact, true conservatives point out that under the conservative
- ideal of smaller government, with less governmental intrusion into
- individual lives, abortion is hardly a fit object for legislation or
- regulation.
-
- >who are now helping children sue
- >their parents for "non-performance"... so in effect YOU are trying to
- >legislate this.
-
- What is "non-performance" and why on earth do you bring it up here?
- Does this "non-performance" consist of refusing to buy a Nintendo
- game? Or is it more like extreme emotional and sexual abuse?
-
- In fact, it is only the anti-abortion gang that I see attempting to
- legally dictate the parent-child relationship, through parental
- consent laws. And yet a pro-"life"r announced to me the other day
- that the gov't had no business interfering in the way she raised her
- children. I asked if they had the right to protect children from
- abuse, and she said oh, THAT was ok. I pointed out that definitions
- of abuse differ, and that it constituted interference in the family.
- She thought for a few moments, and then said that if repealing abuse
- laws was the price we paid for privacy, then so be it. I pointed out
- that many more children would die without the protection of abuse laws,
- and she shrugged and said that wasn't _her_ fault.
-
- So much for taking responsibility. So much for being pro-"life".
- (Although given the repeal of abuse laws, I have no idea on what she
- would base her desire to legislate against abortion....)
-
- >>I'm also assuming that you are strongly against the concept of adoption,
- >>since it allows all those horrible, slutty men to escape their emotional
- >>and financial duties.
-
- >You're an idiot if you think anything I have said indicates this.
-
- <chuckle> So in fact, you _don't_ think that the man involved should
- have any responsibility at all? After all, if the child is adopted,
- the man walks away scot-free. Funny how the men in your scenario are
- getting more and more ways to escape the consequences of their actions,
- while the women have to do what you say no matter what. Tell me, are
- you of the "Biologically, men are led around by their dicks and really
- can't do anything about their sexual desires, so therefore it's entirely
- women's responsibility to say no or deal with the consequences if they
- say yes" school of thought?
-
- Doesn't sound very flattering to men, does it?
-
- >I am adopted. My sister is adopted. Several of my cousins are adopted.
- >Several of my friends are adopted. I can't say how glad I am to know
- >that all of these people's biological parents didn't scrape them out
- >into a garbage can because my life is enriched by their existance.
-
- Thanks for sharing.
-
- >>>This society is going down the hill MORALLY. All of these problems stem
- >>>from the same thing: lack of moral absolutes. Abortion is a great way to
- >>>escape maturity, regardless of your actual age.
-
- >>Do share with us your currently fashionable set of politically correct
- >>moral absolutes. I need to keep up, since these "moral absolutes" seem
- >>to be as changeable as the weather.
-
- >Don't use the term "politically correct" with me. Political correctness
- >is in the vanguard of support for moral relativism.
-
- Well, yes. But it seems that the definition of "sin" changes from day to
- day. After all, once it was considered a sin to BE homosexual. Now the
- Catholic church at least doesn't consider it a sin to BE homosexual,
- just to participate in homosexual ACTS. But then other Christian churches
- sanction same-sex marriages. Baptists think that dancing is a sin, others
- don't. Some churches consider gambling to be a serious sin, while others
- raise money with "Bingo Night". I just want to know which set of moral
- absolutes it is that you're following, as everyone seems to think that
- they have THE answer.
-
- >I will give you a moral absolute.
-
- >Murder is wrong.
-
- Ok, let's look at this. You're the one who defined murder as "the killing
- of a human being", yes? (After all, if you use the actual definition of
- murder as "unlawful killing", your line above begins to look an awful lot
- like a tautology.) Say you walk into the airport, and find a man holding
- 50 people hostage holding a bomb. He doesn't see you, so you take out
- your gun and shoot him. Was this wrong? You're driving down the street,
- and a man jumps in front of your car. You hit him and he dies. Was this
- wrong? You are on a remote battlefield where medical help will not reach
- (you know this to be true), and you find a man suffering from a horribly
- painful wound that will eventually kill him. You have nothing to ease
- his pain, so you shoot him to end his suffering. Is this wrong?
-
- Or is there a category of killing that's "wrong, but less wrong than the
- alternative"?
-
- >Edward Simmonds
-
- -rocker
-